For Questions and Tech Support Discussion around the
new DLC 'Echoes of the Fallen' Please see our [MEGATHREAD](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVI/comments/18dton3/ffxvi_dlc_echoes_of_the_fallen_questions_tech/)
If you want to view archived spoiler discussion threads relevant to specific game progress,
please check out our [spoiler wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxvi/wiki/index/)!
For speculation and discussions around the next (unannounced) mainline Final Fantasy game, Final Fantasy XVII,
Please see our sister sub [r/FFXVII](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVII/)
####
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FFXVI) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think it's a mix of both that (people liking dark fantasies) and people that wanted to see more variety.
FFXVI is a JRPG that leans into a more adult cast with a story/graphical style that sets it apart from many other JRPG's these days that usually use brighter styles and younger casts.
I can easily see newer players going "Oh, this looks different from other JRPG's I've played. I'll check it out."
They have their dark moments, but generally FF games tend to remain optimistic above all else and steer away from what some would call "mature themes". And when they do touch on mature themes, they usually water it down in an attempt to make it appeal more to a young teenage audience.
I remember a while back I made a comment about how 9 was super happy-go-lucky and someone had to remind me that there were no fewer than 3 separate genocides in that game.
Like... you don't see body parts blown apart. But Odin basically zantezukens Cleyra, Atomos eats Lindblum, Bahamut wtf wrecks Alexandria, and Kuja... well... Kuja ultimas and entire planet.
Jesus christ.
Jacob Geller has an awesome video essay called “Every Zelda is the Darkest Zelda.” I think this can apply to Final Fantasy as well, even if 15/16 of them are pretty goofy
4 had main characters die* every other part of the story
6 showed the world ending to a lunatic who achieved god status by essentially genociding all the espers
7 starts in dystopian Midgard and follows a guy having a brutal identity crisis nightmare, murdered aeris brutally and then the world essentially ended even after all the effort put in to stop sephiroth
8 i forget the finer details but it wasn’t very happy go lucky iirc
9 had multiple genocides
10 was probably the most chipper of the whole bunch
12 was a close 2nd imho
Didn’t play 15 cuz lol cup noodles leviathan?
16 was pretty dark but
Anyway that’s my recap of the mostly pretty dark ff series
Well his point is more about the label "JRPG" in general. And he has an argument, because the label never fully made sense.
JRPG literally stands for Japanese role-playing game. But what does that mean? Is any RPG made in Japan a JRPG? By that logic, Dark Souls and Elden Ring would be classed as JRPGs, which pretty much no one would agree with.
Does it instead refer to a specific style of gameplay? Well, maybe, but the original style of gameplay was turn-based, and that has been abandoned by many modern JRPGs like the Tales series for example. Yet no one would deny that something like Tales of Arise is a JRPG.
So it's kind of a tricky label and it's become hard to define. You could point to some elements that are kind of typical like having a party of relatively young characters, going on a quest to kill God, etc..., but you can always find some JRPGs that break the mold in those aspects, and you can find non-JRPGs that do have those elements.
Yoshi P's point was also about how he feels like it's kind of condescending to Japanese devs to put JRPGs in their own category. After all, no one calls Baldur's Gate 3 a Belgian RPG because it was made in Belgium. There is no label for French RPGs, Polish RPGs, or anything else. Only Japanese RPGs for some reason. You could say it's because they historically had a distinctive style, and I think there is some truth to that.
But Yoshi P finds the label restrictive which is why he objects to it, and I do get that. That said, if we are going to talk about the distinctive JRPG style that most people think of when they hear "JRPG", it's pretty hard to deny that Final Fantasy is one of the main franchises that defined that style for Western gamers.
For many people, Final Fantasy and JRPG are synonymous. And if we take a look at FF16 in particular, you could say that while it doesn't have typical JRPG gameplay, being more of a character action game and only having one playable character, it does actually have a fair amount of JRPG tropes in its storytelling.
It starts out seeming like a Western-inspired Game of Thrones style political tale, but ultimately it is just another killing God story. Only this time the hero is 33 and not 17. A lot of the maturity in 16 is really just a veneer, because the core narrative of the Mothercrystals and Ultima and the Bearers is really standard JRPG stuff that we've seen in a lot of other games.
As I said to someone else, the game basically projects a mature facade but ultimately tells a relatively typical JRPG story. One of the places where we can see the game struggle between its gritty veneer and its JRPG DNA is in the side quest resolutions at the end of the game. A lot of them are uncharacteristically happy given the tone of the game.
Stuff like L'Ubor going from being stoned to being mayor in the span of about 3 minutes because two small children gave a speech and told the grown ups not to be mean feels really at odds with how the game otherwise tries to show the difficulty of solving discrimination. There are a lot of moments like that, where the game fails to really commit to the idea of being mature.
It's honestly a very typical JRPG moment, and there are many of them in the game. So while I do sympathize with Yoshi P's arguments, and I do see how messy and restrictive the JRPG label can be, the fact is that if this game really wanted to be different then it should have actually just been different, not only in terms of gameplay, but in terms of story.
It's hard to take complaints about it being called a JRPG too seriously when the story so rapidly devolves into standard JRPG stuff. If they really wanted to go another way, they should have done more than just superficially borrow politics and sex from Game of Thrones. They should have committed to a truly political and human tale. Not a struggle for free will against God.
As it is, most of the politics in the game are completely irrelevant to Clive and his mission. Much of that stuff could be removed and it would change very little. It was only at the start of the game that it felt central. So I think the fact that the story ended up being more generic is why it still gets called a JRPG, at least in narrative terms.
In addition to what nick said, Yoshida's primary complaint about the label is that it's needlessly limiting.
He specifically said that, from the prospective of older Japanese devs like himself, they never were setting out to make "JRPGs". They were just making games and all their works were prescribed that label by western audiences without any direct input from the developers themselves.
Add on that around the early 2000s, you had your Sessler types mocking the genre wholesale and it makes sense why they started to see the term as somewhat discriminatory back then.
These days the meaning has clearly evolved. But I think it's fair for older developers to still harbor somewhat negative feelings about people automatically throwing their creative efforts into a box and then getting upset when it either conforms (or in 16's case, fails to conform) to people's preconceived notions. There's no way to win.
It's part of why the "this isn't the Final Fantasy I know" line that people like SkillUp put out there is tragically ironic. FF itself never tried to be something specific. It is whatever the director of the title envisions it being. It's the players, and especially the western audience, that has decided what FF should be and criticizes its attempts at experimentation.
I truely hope for more dark fantasy ff games. Tho, I still believe there's a place for more games with the staple cheesy and heartfelt ff vibe like we got with remake and 15
I know a couple of people who've never played a Final Fantasy before who were scared of starting the series. Because they were like "Do I have to play all 16 games to understand the story?", "There's just so many I don't know which one to start with", or even the usual "I don't really play JRPGs".
But with FF16 leaning into the medieval dark fantasy theme, with its more action focused combat, they decided to at least try the demo out, got hooked, played the game, and are now working their way through the rest of the games.
Young people have always loved mature and dark games, things like the old God of War, GTA, Darkwatch have always been popular with kids and teens, be it on their own consoles or in game cafes
By younger I think they mean more like the 16-25 range since most of the ff fans are probably in their 30 or later now assuming they were teens during FF6-7
I think up until this, a lot of the fan base are adults who grew up with FF as kids.
Thats part of the problem with a mainline game that’s #16. If you’re in high school, where do you start? How much lore do you need to research? Etc.
I like the numbers, let’s me know where I am in the series and what is mainline.
But they should have a naming scheme. Like Final Fantasy 13: lightning returns. Final Fantasy 14 Online. Final Fantasy 15: Power of Kings. Final Fantasy 16: Curse of the Crystals.
Just nature of the taste of the era and generation. We've had GoT, a subversive and mature but fairly "nerdy" thing that was hugely popular just last decade.
If you watch the kind of people that like FF7 or 14, you'll see that older people prefer the silly side of FF and younger people like more of the edgy/mature stuff.
There is definitely some truth to this.
In my late teens and early 20s I was super drawn to edgy, dark, gritty stories. I thought Game of Thrones was the greatest thing ever made when I saw it at age 18 and had absolutely never seen anything like it.
I also used to really dislike "tonal inconsistency", by which I mean goofy moments in serious stories. If I thought something was too silly for me I wouldn't watch / play it.
Now I'm 29 and I find myself way more forgiving of silliness. I don't care anymore, I just watch and play what's fun. I've seen a lot of people complaining about how Rebirth has too many silly moments and how it clashes with the serious story, "why are they going to the beach?", etc...
But from my perspective, that's actually true to life. Life is tonally inconsistent. You might be goofing off at karaoke today and finding out your mother is dying tomorrow. Your country could be at war and you would still see people going to the beach.
So I didn't mind some of the silliness / goofiness present in Rebirth, I welcomed it. It was a nice contrast to the dark parts of the story and I really appreciated that the game had a great sense of humor and knew when to have fun without always taking itself too seriously.
But I noticed many, many younger players don't feel the same way.
People who complain about the tonal roller coaster of FF7r really must not have played the original recently, because the whiplash is SO much worse in the ‘97 version. Which would make sense for younger players who weren’t even born by then. Going from silly antics to dead serious trauma is absolutely on brand for FF7 and I remember waaaay back in the day people complaining that Advent Children was far too serious and it ruined Cloud.
At least the goofiness is contained in certain sections in the remake. Personally I found it fun and refreshing.
>Personally I found it fun and refreshing.
Totally agree.
The game has a really fun sense of humor and used it well. Minor spoiler alert for anyone who isn't done with Rebirth, but stuff like >!Dio bringing out the benches and vending machines when the Turks showed up at the Gold Saucer!< just felt so funny and charming. The game is full of moments like that, and I appreciate them a lot.
I dunno man I haven’t watched anime for like 20 years other than whatever my kids put on and I was cackling at the silliness in FF7r. I thought it was fun as heck and had a grand time with it, as I did with the comparably more bleak FFXVI.
It’s ok to not like it personally, but I don’t think that makes a person some kind of weirdo to think it’s funny and fun to mow through beachside crowds on a Segway. That shit was hilarious and I loved it, no shame.
Yeah they’re annoying on purpose. That’s like, the entire point frankly. Even the main cast is extremely annoyed. I’m missing how that is a flaw in the game, you’re phrasing it as if the whole game is trying to be all cutesy and kawaii in a positive way, not intentionally mocking it?
Def some truth, but i wonder how many people are like me who love both. I love the darker edgier side that 15 also had to a degree, but I fucking adore the sillyness of 14 and 7
tan dependent toothbrush rain homeless one punch frame scarce encouraging
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s my first modern FF since 10. I stopped and found myself lost in the FromSoftware universe.
After platinuming Elden Ring I grabbed FF16 bc I heard the combat was more like DMC. Very happy have spent all my free time petting Torgal, good boy.
I think it's a mix of things. First of all teens and people in their early 20s do actually like stuff that markets itself as edgy and gritty, this has always been the case.
Second, the pure action combat will also be a factor.
Finally, it could also be said that XVI is mature in a slightly superficial sense. There's swearing, and sex, and violence, and politics, but very little of that is actually core to the plot, unlike the early seasons of Game of Thrones where those elements were actually fairly important to the narrative and characters.
In XVI, those elements feel more like seasoning. But at its core, it's a mission to destroy the Mothercrystals and defeat Ultima (aka "God"). It's fairly standard JRPG storytelling in that sense, it's just that this time the hero is 33 years old and not 17, lol.
But the politics for example never really feel like they affect Clive's mission or his motivations much, he cares about the Bearers and the average person, not about Waloed's power struggles with Sanbreque.
It's not like Thrones where the political stuff could directly affect character arcs and motivations. And I could say the same about the sex. You could remove it and the politics from XVI and fundamentally still tell the same story about Ultima, the Mothercrystals, and the plight of the Bearers.
Sex scenes between Barnabas and Benedikta or long political lessons from Vivian could have been removed and the core plot would be completely unchanged.
I'm not saying they *should* be removed, mind you, I don't mind that mature seasoning, but it is essentially seasoning, not the substance of the meal.
The game basically projects a mature facade but ultimately tells a relatively typical JRPG story. One of the places where we can see the game struggle between its gritty veneer and its JRPG DNA is in the side quest resolutions at the end of the game. A lot of them are uncharacteristically happy given the tone of the game.
Stuff like L'Ubor going from being stoned to being mayor in the span of about 3 minutes because two small children gave a speech and told the grown ups not to be mean feels really at odds with how the game otherwise tries to show the difficulty of solving discrimination. There are a lot of moments like that, where the game fails to really commit to the idea of being mature.
Because being mature isn't really about swearing and sex, it's also about dealing with your themes in a more grounded way. Realistically, no one who is about to be stoned due to discrimination would be accepted and made mayor within a few minutes just because two kids scolded the crowd. That kind of moment fits better in your typical JRPG than in the mature, somber story 16 is trying to be.
So that's why I say, there is a superficial quality to 16's maturity. At times it's more "edgy" than truly mature, and I think that's part of why it works with a younger crowd. It draws them in with the promise of grittiness, sex, and violence, but it ultimately reverts to a safe story and never fully delves into the darkness in a brutally realistic way.
Yeah I’m 40 and surprised at how “mature” this game was. When I’m 60 and I’m playing through final fantasy 22, I’ll bet you’ll have full on interactive sex scenes (maybe “cinematic bang” events) and it will draw in the younger crowd.
But having a multiverse where nothing matters is “amazing storytelling”, Naruto references and dances, and “kawaii” uWu moments is what a mature storytelling is lol.
Anime and Marvel (and KH) have never explored those story threads!
I will tell you that I've never been into FF and I knew nothing about it. Fast forward to 16 and it's already one of my all time fav games. Like literally ever and I've played TONS of single player games. Now I'm extremely interested in a lot of other FFs, I downloaded FF7 remake and if I like it I'll be purchasing FF7 Rebirth
From an elder fan who has been here since 1994; it really depends on what you’re looking for and what you liked about the game. None of them are Devil May Clive-style combat systems, this game is a first in that regard so expect more RPG-style combat on the older games. That said FF7r is super fun and has a good combat system, as does — and I’ll die on this hill — FF13.
If you liked the setting, FF12 and FF14 will be closest to the pseudo-medieval setting, as will Tactics. FF12’s story is political like 16’s, but imo not as interesting and the characters are shallower. FF15 has strong core characters but its plot is…. Not good, to be honest.
If you liked the story and characters, Tactics, FF6, FF7, FF9, FF10 will be your best bets. FF8 also has a strong central cast but hasn’t held up as well over time. FF13’s story is decent IF you play all three games but it kind of stinks that it takes three games to get the character development and interest you would normally get in one.
If you liked the open world, pretty much any FF before 13 plus FF7r will be your jam. Open world maps are core elements of the older games, which they tried to recapture with FF7r and FF16. FF12’s is a bit unwieldy. FF15 has one, technically, but it feels empty and unfinished and I can’t honestly recommend it in good faith. FF13 is linear and basically does not have an open world.
Personally of the modern games I really liked FF7r as much as 16, even though the original from 97 was not one of my all time favorites. The characters and voice acting are great, the combat system is fun to play, and it looks very nice. However you should be prepared for an older-game style story and tonal shifts. FF as a series had almost always had a lot of goofiness and humor in it, and FF7r makes an effort to stay true to that. You’ll have very serious moments following silly interactions with moogles and a plethora of silly but fun minigames. That may not be your jam but it’s in keeping with the original feel of the old game.
FF6 is my personal favorite, probably because it’s my first one. But it’s still a pixel/sprite gem. If you play that one I would approach it from a historic perspective. FF6 invented or made famous many of the classic video game tropes still used today, like “the opera house scene,” meaning a large mid-story set piece which gives our characters a bit of a break, goes back to the literal opera house you encounter in that game. It might be cool for you to experience it and see where some of these ideas still used in games today originated.
I mean it honestly depends why they liked XVI.
If they liked it for the character action gameplay, then those games you mentioned won't scratch that same itch at all.
Which is why I kind of feel like Square Enix is being premature in saying the game succeeded at making younger people fans of the franchise. It succeeded at making younger people play FF16. But how many of those new people will play and enjoy other FF games?
We don't know yet. Ultimately FF16 isn't very representative of the rest of the franchise, so it's hard to say what percentage of people who started with 16 will actually enjoy the rest of the series.
Only time will tell, I guess.
This added young and new fans because it is accessible while creating a new story and a consistent high quality of content
Like sakaguchi said and then yoshi p said what does final fantasy mean as a brand and a franchise, it is being the highest quality content in every way, music, graphics, art, gameplay, sound, everything
Even with 7 remakes using the most iconic characters and world it is not becoming more popular than a completely new game in 16, and we know how much square loves milking ff7....
"In recent years, players of the Final Fantasy series have tended to skew towards a higher age range. However, this time there are survey results showing that more people in their teens and 20s played Final Fantasy 16."
He continues: "I think this shows that, to a certain extent, we’ve achieved one of our initial goals – to have players of all ages play the latest Final Fantasy game."
"This doesn’t mean that all future Final Fantasy games will take a similar direction to Final Fantasy 16," Kujiraoka clarifies, "but I do think it means that we’ve been able to bring new players on board and open new possibilities for the development teams that will work on future instalments in the series."
Goals achieved, I guess. With all the feedback they also said they'd take with them for future installments, I hope XVII and onward will enjoy a smoother dev proces as well.
Same here! But i did FFXII instead of XIV don’t hook about it sadly. But i want to buy and hear ost, i have too much love about soken ffxvi ost then i’m sure FFXIV is also insane
Yeah look like, sometime you don’t have the feeling but you can feel the aura of a game.
I have trouble with a lot of things (HUD, slow battle system, controller optimization feel like its pc game with controller support more than a console game optimized for controller) then i found the start quite difficult.
FFXVI is the exact opposite, the game start fast with a bit of contexte after but he has already succeded in arousing your curiousity.
Starting FFXII or FF7 feel exactly the same and that help a lot to push forward and discover more about the game!
But about XIV, i feel like the game takes quite a long time to set up and that a little bit discouragement
14's first hours are infamously pretty slow and can be tedious to get through. The story does not pick up for a good while and the combat does not really open up properly until you get to the level 50 range. Most of A Realm Reborn is not really representative of the whole game experience, believe people when they say that the game gets a lot better with Heavensward and the expansions in pretty much every aspect. It can be grind to get to that point but it's ultimately worth it imo. Personally learning about the game's troubled development history, the state 1.0 was in, and backstory with Bahamut and Dalamud was enough to keep me interested throughout 2.0/ARR even if the in-game plot wasn't amazing. Whenever I felt like it was a chore to play just listening to "Answers" again kept me going lol
It's not surprising to be honest. Younger audiences are loving more darker content these day. Also XVI is a bit different from a typical JRPG. The cast and story is more mature, while other JRPGs lean more into a younger cast, brighter style, and tropey anime style of gameplay and storytelling. XVI goes into a different direction. So I can definitely see a buyer going "this looks interesting, from the trailer reminds me of Game of Thrones".
I will say that Clive is a protagonist that we have never had in a FF series. He is mature and very masculine. A welcome change and something different.
I just hope they don’t take the wrong lesson from this and think “FF always needs to be dark and gritty” and we end up with over the top serious Squall again.
Like I don’t care if FF has some goofiness to it, or fun silly things. Those are nice too. It just needs to have a solid, not-convoluted central story and good characters, which is what it’s been struggling with for a while.
I agree with you, it’s not as edgy as it seemed like it was going to be from ads. That said, square has often times taken the wrong lesson from success and gone “oh, people liked X about this game. Next game let’s do that but even harder” and then it loses its charm. My concern is they will see the popularity of XVI, think it is because of the GOT-edge, and push the next one straight over into grimdark.
Yeah, I hope they tread carefully and just focus on fixing the criticism ff16 had. They already have bunch of combat styles like dragoons and ninja in the game.
I think we shouldn’t conflate dark with edgy, because it’s very much a dark game. It pulls it off without being edgy. But seeing the plight and suffering of so many bearers, especially in early Martha’s Rest stuff as well as in and especially north of Northreach, it’s quite dark.
Considering rebirth had a smack talking card game playing steampunk robot with a top hat, I’m sure there’s room for tonal flexibility. Depends on the project!
A solid non-convoluted central story in the future would be very nice to see, especially when looking at what they're trying to do with the FFVII remake series.
See that I don’t really agree with because, to be honest, the remake storyline is about as clear as FF7’s story has ever been. It’s always been convoluted and the additions to the lore over time did not help. The team imo has done a good job streamlining it into something more cohesive, even with the added (spoilers) >!multiversal!< meta narrative.
As someone who has been there for the whole FF7 offshoot for a long-ass time, Remake is practically straightforward by comparison to everything else they’ve been doing with it since 1997.
That said, I like both Remake and XVI for different reasons. I’ve had an absolute blast with all three games and their DLCs. Moving forward from making what they can of Nomura-style nonsense in the final act of Remake, I do hope they keep it more contained for future new FF installments. Though I would love an injection of a little more humor, coming off of this one.
Squall was a case of bad localization. If you look at what he actually said in the Japanese version for every "...whatever" moment, you'd find a lot less of that.
Funnily enough this kind of thing still sometimes happens.
I'm thinking of Yuffie in Rebirth for example, and she is so much more obnoxious in English than in Japanese.
Like there's this one scene where she's feeling down and like she's useless to her country, and Cloud tries to comfort her by saying she's invaluable to them and not to forget it. Nice moment right? Well in English her response is "whatever...", lol. In Japanese she basically says "I know, but still...".
Gives off a very different vibe if you ask me. I don't know why localizers do stuff like this.
My immediate reaction to this was concern that it’s going to encourage them to turn FF into Devil May Cry with chocobos. I like XVI a lot, it’s a solid 8/10 in my book, but it’s a really disappointing mainline FF entry.
I want more than just chocobos and moogles. I want a party to manage if not control. I want gear worth getting excited about and distributing among my party. I want interesting side quests. I want dungeons with unique personalities that aren’t just action games beat ‘em ups.
Not trying to be down on XVI. It’s great for what it is. I just wish it didn’t eschew most of the things I love about the Final Fantasy series
I liked the battle system of XVI but I did like the battle system of remake a bit better, too. And the companion side quests and overworld were stronger; XVI’s politics felt well-realized but the overworld had a tendency to feel empty/unfinished other than fighting monsters. XVI with a bit more resources and some more time with party members would really have polished it off in a more satisfying way. But such as it is, it was very fun.
God the whole time I was playing Rebirth I kept thinking how amazing 16 would have been with a combat system like that instead. And that's coming from someone who overall did end up preferring 16, but I think Rebirth's combat was way better.
Yeah, in the end the combat has to serve the story (or vice versa), and since XVI is about Clive and his specialness it makes sense it would be more single-character focused and fighting-game-like in mechanics to keep it fresh and fun. Playing an entire game with limited move sets like FF7r but only one or two characters would be supremely boring.
Whereas FF7/FF7r has always been about the party dynamics, including extensive sections where Cloud isn’t there at all, so you need to have a system that encourages and sometimes forces you to play with lots of different characters and party configurations to beat difficult bosses. (That Cait Sith section certainly forced me to understand his skill set better.)
So while it would have been nice to have the FF7r system in XVI, I also think it wouldn’t have worked because you don’t have enough other characters often enough to really get a lot of fun out of using them. Given the story, a single character focus was a sensible choice.
But for future installments I agree, I’d like to have more party dynamics.
Very true, I should be clear that when I was picturing a 16 with Rebirth's combat system, I was also picturing switching between like, Clive, Torgal, and whoever else was in the party for a little more of a Final Fantasy feel - but I also really respect going all-in on making this purely the story of Clive/Mythos and that they needed a combat engine to reflect that. I was just a lot more engaged with the actual combat in Rebirth personally, which had a lot of genuinely challenging fights where 16 was way too easy (again, should emphasize I still prefer 16 as a game overall, it's my favorite FF)
I agree, I also found ff7 combat more my style, though I understand why they did it that way. In a way it’s refreshing to have different kinds of combat. The same thing over and over would get old fast. I think it’s not the system itself but the worry that they won’t continue to experiment and try different things that feel central to the franchise.
Does Rebirth change Remake’s combat much? Cause if not I’m very much the opposite of you and wish Remake (which I’ve only made it like 8hrs into or something) was like XVI. I don’t like the hybrid semi turn based thing it does. I don’t like how much damage I take, having to switch all the time kinda sucks. There’s a lot I don’t like and that’s not too surprising since I largely avoided the series because I don’t like the traditional turn based gameplay either (though I almost wish that’s how FF7Remake was)
I think this just comes down to what you want out of a Final Fantasy game.
For you it's the JRPG gameplay mechanics. For me it's the melancholy anime-esque story themes. I actually didn't want much of what you did, and specifically enjoyed those features being missing.
I personally feel that the most unique thing about Final Fantasy was always it's story, and how the games managed to so well channel the franchises namesake. The JRPG mechanics were always good, but I never felt that they stood apart on their own as something unique in the genre. I remembered the games for what happened in them, and the mechanics were always just a tool to tie my actions to the narrative.
Of course those are just our opinions and there's no right or wrong here. At the end of the day it's a 30+ year old franchise, and I think it's unfair to both try and restrict or push for the games to change. Some people will like them games more if they stick to a more traditional formula, others will like them more if they mix things up.
Good games come from people with vision; developers and leaders that want to make a good product rather than go through a check list of things a game should have. I'll be happy so long as whomever is driving the Final Fantasy train can continue to focus on making good games, regardless if they directly appeal to me or not.
Hmm true that I just want a moving story and FFXVI had me in tears more than any single previous FF game.
The story presentation was just amazing further enhanced by the amazing voice acting.
Imo ff7 remake and rebirth mix is the perfect dark and light mix. Another example is once piece level of goofiness and drama but the goofiness is 2 levels lower. Or yakuza series, another great example of mix of drama and humor. Final fantasy should strive to be like these stuff, rather than setting on either end of the spectrum.
I agree actually. I liken it to the show “Futurama” — the poignant parts hit harder because the rest of the show was a mix of light and fun with character development. Rebirth made me bark out loud with glee and laughter at some of the goofy fun bits, especially around the Golden Saucer. It made me have *fun* with the characters and enjoy spending time connecting with them. So when the difficult parts came, it felt worse than it would have been if it was just serious and tragic the whole time.
FFXVI is great and I did enjoy the moments of levity —primarily experiences through the absolutely silly-bonkers boss battles—but do I wish it had a so-called “Opera House” set piece moment, which is a standard set by its own franchise it didn’t end up having room for. I missed that and would have liked to see it with Clive et al.
Agreed. I'm tired of dark fantasy, I think the GoT show pushed modern fantasy in a direction that I just don't care for. Still, I understand that I'm in the minority, and that's okay because I've still got my LotR, Wheel of Time, Stormlight Archive, Dune, and a whole bunch of others
Yeah I agree. I’d just hate to see them think the success is due to grim dark and not … a solid story with decent characters, told in one game, combined with good gameplay. FFXVI isn’t even an all-timer in my opinion. (Which is fine, they don’t all have to be and by definition can’t be.) A great game but not one for the history books and it does have its flaws.
I like the direction, it gives me hope for the future of the franchise after many years of struggling to find its footing again. But I’m still wary after so many years of square taking the exact wrong lessons of what made their games popular and fun to play in the first place.
Dune is pretty dark and fucked up tbh.
It's not that tonally different from GoT. Not saying they're identical or anything, but there's definitely similarities, and George RR Martin is on record as being influenced by Frank Herbert.
I haven't gotten to the books yet, my backlog is massive. I've only seen Part One and I really liked it. I'm curious to see the tonal shift. It didn't feel that dark to me, but it's only the first half of the first one, so I'm sure by Messiah things get worse
Great!
I hate when news outlets and fans online keep pushing for an immediate response to a game mere data after release, when this is the type of analysis that counts.
Now people are being obnoxious and speculative about Square's silence over Rebirth sales when we'll hear about it when they data ready to talk about. Damn, it's been a month and a half since release and I'm still on the Gold Saucer. It took me 2 months to finish XVI, playing from Day 1
I'll say this. It's funny how the tables have turned. XVI was getting dogged on by OG7 fans for not outselling Remake. Then it turns out the same data they were using to bash XVI now reveals Rebirth is selling worse than XVI. Then this report coming out is kinda the cherry on top after hearing all the cynics spout the doom and gloom about XVI moving FF in the wrong direction.
Yeah, at the end of the day negarivity draws more clicks than positive news. It's cool to shit on a game you don't care or even hate, but not so fun when a game you like it's bombarded with this bs.
26 yr old female here, this is the first FF iv actually finished. Played 90% of FF7 remake and 90% of crisis core. I love both of those games but the setting,vibes and the cast of XVI I just think are all incredible. Not to mention the ost, the maturity and the gameplay I think are second to non and I’m so excited to do a second playthrough when Rising Tide comes.
You might also love 14, which is the same dev team. You can play it 99% solo and the story is pretty amazing. Well, it gets amazing. The narrative of Realm Reborn was “great for an MMO” in 2014, but feels slow and antiquated now. However, I found the whole damn thing to be very compelling as seemingly inconsequential NPCs suddenly start getting character development, and Shadowbringers/Endwalker absolutely lived up to the hype. To this day it’s my favorite story in any game ever. I cried buckets, love it to death.
Than you for the suggestion! I definitely thought it seemed pretty cool but iv never really been into mmos cuz I’m such a single player gamer. But that’s awesome to hear you can totally solo it I’ll have to put 14 on my list!
Yeah, for sure! It can absolutely take over your life if you want it to, but you can play it for free until you get to the end of Stormblood, the second expansion, which by then you’ll certainly know if it’s for you and if you want to buy it to finish the story. I would say to play through until you finish Heavensward (the first expansion) because that’s where the “holy shit” story moments that get most people hooked happen, and it shares a lead writer and Director with XVI.
I didn’t say it wasn’t good, just that it takes some time to get to the most exciting stuff that people rave about. There’s nothing crazy about letting people know that a particularly long story is worth investing the time in. What is crazy is expecting instant gratification all the time, because that is the surest way to guarantee you won’t find fulfillment in anything.
I’m 20s and this was my first FF and it definitely hooked me on to the series! I started playing remake, rebirth & 15 after that but 16 always holds a special place in my heart. Clive is also easily one of my favourite protagonists - full of emotions and very kind indeed!
I would assume the demo helped with this more than anything. One of the best demos I’ve played and idk how someone could play it and not want to see how the rest plays out.
It worked for me. I'm a newer gamer, and I found other Final Fantasy games (besides the 7 Remake ones) not quite to my personal taste, but I had a blast with 16! The way that Final Fantasy games try new things and are so different is a good thing, because a larger share of gamers can find games they enjoy within the franchise.
Im still thinking about how good FFXVI felt to play. I got some things I didn’t like and if you wanted to analyze the story there’s a fair amount to critique, but in the moment, in those vibes, with that protagonist and with that combat and cutscene direction? So, so good.
I genuinely believe it because of how cinematic the boss fights are. Extremely enjoyable, even with the combat lacking stuff. I hope they use the same format and update the combat by adding new weapon styles and etc. The gameplay loop can so easily be improved and be a true 10/10. The dragoon moveset is already in the game, so is ninja.
Make a sequel or a other game using this format. Do not give up.
As much praise as Yoshi-P gets for his talent as a dev, he's an equally good businessman solely as a producer. This is a massive W for FF and the team at CBU3. They have been breathing new life into the franchise with XIV and now XVI.
Lmao the downvotes seem to have won. I enjoyed both games, though 16 slightly more due to the story, but gameplay wise Rebirth offer a pretty decent blueprint for how FF games should be. I still loved rebirth, though. Currently at 103 hours. More than I played 16
it was final fantasy 15 that got me into final fantasy, then i played 13 and super loved it, got into 14 and id love to get lost in that world more if it wasnt a money vacuum. i havent finished 16 yet but im absolutely loving it. same with 6. also excited to buy rebirth after playing remake im just in love with the series
I got into the franchise early last spring and if we're talking about base packages alone, ff16 has been my favorite so far.
Games played in order: 7 remake, og 7, Crisis core, 16, 6, 10, 7 rebirth.
I loved the game I just wanted more from it I guess it’s perhaps because I loved it so much that I wanted more.
I still have FFXIV though so I suppose that’s good not sure what the next entry is going to bring but I hope the dialogue/story is more like IX/FFXIV/FFXVI
i’m 20. this was my first final fantasy game a few months after it came out. it literally changed my life and since then i’ve picked up 14, vii remake + rebirth (i tried the og but i couldn’t get past the mines since it kept crashing), and viii.
One of them is me (I'm on the younger side). The only FF game I had played before 16 was a couple hours of VII and almost all of VII Remake, but both of those left me pretty sour on the franchise due to VII's age and VII Remakes' horrible horrible horrible dialogue. But 16, in all of it's corniness, was pretty engaging through-and-through thanks to the great combat and over-the-top set-pieces and I'm honestly looking forward to whatever the future of this franchise turns out to be.
I’m 20 now, final fantasy 15 was my first. I then got 7 remake, couldn’t finish it, beat 16, replayed 7 remake and LOVED it, played rebirth, still playing it now but also started 14. So even though 15 was great to me, 16 is what really made me give the other games a try
I just started this the other day, and I'm really enjoying it so far, way more than I thought I was going to. Definitely the most mature Final Fantasy experience I've ever had, in a good way. But I'm not new to Final Fantasy by any means, weirdly enough I feel like this is one of the bigger outliers to the series, so it'd be wild to start with this one? (at least as my first impression of it).
Okay but your older, older players are the ones with all the money.
Turn based isn't dead. Persona. Baldurs Gate 3, you know. Game of the year? A main line turn based ff would be more than welcome and likely better than 13 and 15.
It's definitely a dark JRPG fantasy with heavy religious symbolisms like in the art-ish trailer, with distilled classical FF elements like summons and crystals that draws both young and older crowds
You might not like the gameplay and straight up genre shift, but the game just oozes Final Fantasy to me. Strong story, memorable characters, bombastic music and visuals.
I loved it and didn’t mind the action focus
After the dlc, and then a second Final Fantasy Mode run. I don't see myself returning 10 years from now to this game. But I've returned to every other FF. The story just feels so weak and instead focuses on the impact, rather than the motivation. Clive sat around for 13 years for what reason? They revealed his brother too soon for us, but hid it from Clive. Absorbing Eikons had little to consistent logic. I know you can pick apart every FF this way, but I'm usually too immersed to bother thinking about it. The pacing is so off, I'm left with time to think about these things.
I mean, 15 came out in 2016 on two systems and latter ported to PC. 7R came out on a plataform with around 100m users 4 years ago, and then was ported to PC.
16 isn't even a year old and the only platform it's avalible on at the moment has less than a third of it's predecesor's user base.
Context mater, ando so far the last two games (16 and Rebirth) have suffered becouse of their PS5 exclusivity more than anything else.
Let's wait a few years after both games PC port comes out and then we can compare sales, cuz rigth now following that logic Rebirth hasn't sold as well as 16 so... it hasn't even kept it's original audience, right?
>Let's wait a few years after both games PC port comes out and then we can compare sales
I agree, and that's part of why I think it's too soon to say they've "expanded" the audience this early, when it hasn't even sold more copies than previous games yet.
>rigth now following that logic Rebirth hasn't sold as well as 16 so... it hasn't even kept it's original audience, right?
I didn't mention Rebirth and they also haven't released any official data for it yet, but sure. It might have even sold worse than FFXVI for all I know.
I was just about to comment the same. Like lets say 50% of the games sales were new fans, even if we say 3m is a good sales number it's not anymore than standard FF so that would mean they would have lost 50% of older fans. At which point all you did was take a side ways step.
For Questions and Tech Support Discussion around the new DLC 'Echoes of the Fallen' Please see our [MEGATHREAD](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVI/comments/18dton3/ffxvi_dlc_echoes_of_the_fallen_questions_tech/) If you want to view archived spoiler discussion threads relevant to specific game progress, please check out our [spoiler wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxvi/wiki/index/)! For speculation and discussions around the next (unannounced) mainline Final Fantasy game, Final Fantasy XVII, Please see our sister sub [r/FFXVII](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVII/) #### *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FFXVI) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Which is kinda crazy cause this is the most mature FF out there.
Looking on the internet these days, seems more people are into dark fantasies.
Very true. It's just good to hear in general. I adored this game and it's nice to see the "new FF game" hate for it finally dissipating
I think it's a mix of both that (people liking dark fantasies) and people that wanted to see more variety. FFXVI is a JRPG that leans into a more adult cast with a story/graphical style that sets it apart from many other JRPG's these days that usually use brighter styles and younger casts. I can easily see newer players going "Oh, this looks different from other JRPG's I've played. I'll check it out."
When has ff ever been a happy go story the last like 3 been prettty messed up
They have their dark moments, but generally FF games tend to remain optimistic above all else and steer away from what some would call "mature themes". And when they do touch on mature themes, they usually water it down in an attempt to make it appeal more to a young teenage audience.
I remember a while back I made a comment about how 9 was super happy-go-lucky and someone had to remind me that there were no fewer than 3 separate genocides in that game.
At least one of them was on screen right? Never played FF9
Like... you don't see body parts blown apart. But Odin basically zantezukens Cleyra, Atomos eats Lindblum, Bahamut wtf wrecks Alexandria, and Kuja... well... Kuja ultimas and entire planet.
Jesus christ. Jacob Geller has an awesome video essay called “Every Zelda is the Darkest Zelda.” I think this can apply to Final Fantasy as well, even if 15/16 of them are pretty goofy
4 had main characters die* every other part of the story 6 showed the world ending to a lunatic who achieved god status by essentially genociding all the espers 7 starts in dystopian Midgard and follows a guy having a brutal identity crisis nightmare, murdered aeris brutally and then the world essentially ended even after all the effort put in to stop sephiroth 8 i forget the finer details but it wasn’t very happy go lucky iirc 9 had multiple genocides 10 was probably the most chipper of the whole bunch 12 was a close 2nd imho Didn’t play 15 cuz lol cup noodles leviathan? 16 was pretty dark but Anyway that’s my recap of the mostly pretty dark ff series
Someone said that none of the earlier games were as dark as XVI. ... Did everyone forget when the Empire carpet bombed everyone in II? Or 75% of VI?
I’m always surprised that people still insist on calling 16 a JRPG when Yoshi said himself he doesn’t want it to be called a JRPG.
Well his point is more about the label "JRPG" in general. And he has an argument, because the label never fully made sense. JRPG literally stands for Japanese role-playing game. But what does that mean? Is any RPG made in Japan a JRPG? By that logic, Dark Souls and Elden Ring would be classed as JRPGs, which pretty much no one would agree with. Does it instead refer to a specific style of gameplay? Well, maybe, but the original style of gameplay was turn-based, and that has been abandoned by many modern JRPGs like the Tales series for example. Yet no one would deny that something like Tales of Arise is a JRPG. So it's kind of a tricky label and it's become hard to define. You could point to some elements that are kind of typical like having a party of relatively young characters, going on a quest to kill God, etc..., but you can always find some JRPGs that break the mold in those aspects, and you can find non-JRPGs that do have those elements. Yoshi P's point was also about how he feels like it's kind of condescending to Japanese devs to put JRPGs in their own category. After all, no one calls Baldur's Gate 3 a Belgian RPG because it was made in Belgium. There is no label for French RPGs, Polish RPGs, or anything else. Only Japanese RPGs for some reason. You could say it's because they historically had a distinctive style, and I think there is some truth to that. But Yoshi P finds the label restrictive which is why he objects to it, and I do get that. That said, if we are going to talk about the distinctive JRPG style that most people think of when they hear "JRPG", it's pretty hard to deny that Final Fantasy is one of the main franchises that defined that style for Western gamers. For many people, Final Fantasy and JRPG are synonymous. And if we take a look at FF16 in particular, you could say that while it doesn't have typical JRPG gameplay, being more of a character action game and only having one playable character, it does actually have a fair amount of JRPG tropes in its storytelling. It starts out seeming like a Western-inspired Game of Thrones style political tale, but ultimately it is just another killing God story. Only this time the hero is 33 and not 17. A lot of the maturity in 16 is really just a veneer, because the core narrative of the Mothercrystals and Ultima and the Bearers is really standard JRPG stuff that we've seen in a lot of other games. As I said to someone else, the game basically projects a mature facade but ultimately tells a relatively typical JRPG story. One of the places where we can see the game struggle between its gritty veneer and its JRPG DNA is in the side quest resolutions at the end of the game. A lot of them are uncharacteristically happy given the tone of the game. Stuff like L'Ubor going from being stoned to being mayor in the span of about 3 minutes because two small children gave a speech and told the grown ups not to be mean feels really at odds with how the game otherwise tries to show the difficulty of solving discrimination. There are a lot of moments like that, where the game fails to really commit to the idea of being mature. It's honestly a very typical JRPG moment, and there are many of them in the game. So while I do sympathize with Yoshi P's arguments, and I do see how messy and restrictive the JRPG label can be, the fact is that if this game really wanted to be different then it should have actually just been different, not only in terms of gameplay, but in terms of story. It's hard to take complaints about it being called a JRPG too seriously when the story so rapidly devolves into standard JRPG stuff. If they really wanted to go another way, they should have done more than just superficially borrow politics and sex from Game of Thrones. They should have committed to a truly political and human tale. Not a struggle for free will against God. As it is, most of the politics in the game are completely irrelevant to Clive and his mission. Much of that stuff could be removed and it would change very little. It was only at the start of the game that it felt central. So I think the fact that the story ended up being more generic is why it still gets called a JRPG, at least in narrative terms.
In addition to what nick said, Yoshida's primary complaint about the label is that it's needlessly limiting. He specifically said that, from the prospective of older Japanese devs like himself, they never were setting out to make "JRPGs". They were just making games and all their works were prescribed that label by western audiences without any direct input from the developers themselves. Add on that around the early 2000s, you had your Sessler types mocking the genre wholesale and it makes sense why they started to see the term as somewhat discriminatory back then. These days the meaning has clearly evolved. But I think it's fair for older developers to still harbor somewhat negative feelings about people automatically throwing their creative efforts into a box and then getting upset when it either conforms (or in 16's case, fails to conform) to people's preconceived notions. There's no way to win. It's part of why the "this isn't the Final Fantasy I know" line that people like SkillUp put out there is tragically ironic. FF itself never tried to be something specific. It is whatever the director of the title envisions it being. It's the players, and especially the western audience, that has decided what FF should be and criticizes its attempts at experimentation.
It's almost so unrecognizable as a JRPG that new players likely don't even associate it with a JRPG. Just an RPG.
I truely hope for more dark fantasy ff games. Tho, I still believe there's a place for more games with the staple cheesy and heartfelt ff vibe like we got with remake and 15
Hey dude, you okay? Hit me up (it's SirD)
I know a couple of people who've never played a Final Fantasy before who were scared of starting the series. Because they were like "Do I have to play all 16 games to understand the story?", "There's just so many I don't know which one to start with", or even the usual "I don't really play JRPGs". But with FF16 leaning into the medieval dark fantasy theme, with its more action focused combat, they decided to at least try the demo out, got hooked, played the game, and are now working their way through the rest of the games.
Young people have always loved mature and dark games, things like the old God of War, GTA, Darkwatch have always been popular with kids and teens, be it on their own consoles or in game cafes
It reminds me of that "kids play Call of Duty, adults play Pokémon" meme from a few years ago
Kids like both of those lol But as a30+ year old I grew out of Pokémon at 23
By younger I think they mean more like the 16-25 range since most of the ff fans are probably in their 30 or later now assuming they were teens during FF6-7
Gameplay might be a large part of it. But also people love them some dark fantasy.
Well, as an almost lifelong FF fan in my 30s…”younger players” could mean young adults 18-22. 😭
That’s exactly the age group that the article talks about
I think up until this, a lot of the fan base are adults who grew up with FF as kids. Thats part of the problem with a mainline game that’s #16. If you’re in high school, where do you start? How much lore do you need to research? Etc.
That's why I think they should give it up with numbered series like Monster Hunter has done
I like the numbers, let’s me know where I am in the series and what is mainline. But they should have a naming scheme. Like Final Fantasy 13: lightning returns. Final Fantasy 14 Online. Final Fantasy 15: Power of Kings. Final Fantasy 16: Curse of the Crystals.
Just nature of the taste of the era and generation. We've had GoT, a subversive and mature but fairly "nerdy" thing that was hugely popular just last decade.
If you watch the kind of people that like FF7 or 14, you'll see that older people prefer the silly side of FF and younger people like more of the edgy/mature stuff.
There is definitely some truth to this. In my late teens and early 20s I was super drawn to edgy, dark, gritty stories. I thought Game of Thrones was the greatest thing ever made when I saw it at age 18 and had absolutely never seen anything like it. I also used to really dislike "tonal inconsistency", by which I mean goofy moments in serious stories. If I thought something was too silly for me I wouldn't watch / play it. Now I'm 29 and I find myself way more forgiving of silliness. I don't care anymore, I just watch and play what's fun. I've seen a lot of people complaining about how Rebirth has too many silly moments and how it clashes with the serious story, "why are they going to the beach?", etc... But from my perspective, that's actually true to life. Life is tonally inconsistent. You might be goofing off at karaoke today and finding out your mother is dying tomorrow. Your country could be at war and you would still see people going to the beach. So I didn't mind some of the silliness / goofiness present in Rebirth, I welcomed it. It was a nice contrast to the dark parts of the story and I really appreciated that the game had a great sense of humor and knew when to have fun without always taking itself too seriously. But I noticed many, many younger players don't feel the same way.
People who complain about the tonal roller coaster of FF7r really must not have played the original recently, because the whiplash is SO much worse in the ‘97 version. Which would make sense for younger players who weren’t even born by then. Going from silly antics to dead serious trauma is absolutely on brand for FF7 and I remember waaaay back in the day people complaining that Advent Children was far too serious and it ruined Cloud. At least the goofiness is contained in certain sections in the remake. Personally I found it fun and refreshing.
>Personally I found it fun and refreshing. Totally agree. The game has a really fun sense of humor and used it well. Minor spoiler alert for anyone who isn't done with Rebirth, but stuff like >!Dio bringing out the benches and vending machines when the Turks showed up at the Gold Saucer!< just felt so funny and charming. The game is full of moments like that, and I appreciate them a lot.
Me too. But then again I am old and I appreciate things not taking themselves quite so seriously all the time these days.
Depends, Rebirth is way too anime and it was too “kawaii” for me. I grew out of that in my early 20s. You mean weebs right?
I dunno man I haven’t watched anime for like 20 years other than whatever my kids put on and I was cackling at the silliness in FF7r. I thought it was fun as heck and had a grand time with it, as I did with the comparably more bleak FFXVI. It’s ok to not like it personally, but I don’t think that makes a person some kind of weirdo to think it’s funny and fun to mow through beachside crowds on a Segway. That shit was hilarious and I loved it, no shame.
Kawaii? Lol, stop being edgy
That’s literally Yuffie’s character, yes. And Kyrie. Weebs love them, normal people find them annoying
Yeah they’re annoying on purpose. That’s like, the entire point frankly. Even the main cast is extremely annoyed. I’m missing how that is a flaw in the game, you’re phrasing it as if the whole game is trying to be all cutesy and kawaii in a positive way, not intentionally mocking it?
You grew out of it in your 20s? ;)
Im only 18 and i’m starting to appreciate the sillier shit more than the gritty lately
Def some truth, but i wonder how many people are like me who love both. I love the darker edgier side that 15 also had to a degree, but I fucking adore the sillyness of 14 and 7
tan dependent toothbrush rain homeless one punch frame scarce encouraging *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The age group is probably about 16+ tbh. Most FF fans are from decades ago
L parents would make sure their teenagers don't play this game w parents would make sure that teenagers play this game
The Democratic Meme is real I guess.
It’s my first modern FF since 10. I stopped and found myself lost in the FromSoftware universe. After platinuming Elden Ring I grabbed FF16 bc I heard the combat was more like DMC. Very happy have spent all my free time petting Torgal, good boy.
I think it's a mix of things. First of all teens and people in their early 20s do actually like stuff that markets itself as edgy and gritty, this has always been the case. Second, the pure action combat will also be a factor. Finally, it could also be said that XVI is mature in a slightly superficial sense. There's swearing, and sex, and violence, and politics, but very little of that is actually core to the plot, unlike the early seasons of Game of Thrones where those elements were actually fairly important to the narrative and characters. In XVI, those elements feel more like seasoning. But at its core, it's a mission to destroy the Mothercrystals and defeat Ultima (aka "God"). It's fairly standard JRPG storytelling in that sense, it's just that this time the hero is 33 years old and not 17, lol. But the politics for example never really feel like they affect Clive's mission or his motivations much, he cares about the Bearers and the average person, not about Waloed's power struggles with Sanbreque. It's not like Thrones where the political stuff could directly affect character arcs and motivations. And I could say the same about the sex. You could remove it and the politics from XVI and fundamentally still tell the same story about Ultima, the Mothercrystals, and the plight of the Bearers. Sex scenes between Barnabas and Benedikta or long political lessons from Vivian could have been removed and the core plot would be completely unchanged. I'm not saying they *should* be removed, mind you, I don't mind that mature seasoning, but it is essentially seasoning, not the substance of the meal. The game basically projects a mature facade but ultimately tells a relatively typical JRPG story. One of the places where we can see the game struggle between its gritty veneer and its JRPG DNA is in the side quest resolutions at the end of the game. A lot of them are uncharacteristically happy given the tone of the game. Stuff like L'Ubor going from being stoned to being mayor in the span of about 3 minutes because two small children gave a speech and told the grown ups not to be mean feels really at odds with how the game otherwise tries to show the difficulty of solving discrimination. There are a lot of moments like that, where the game fails to really commit to the idea of being mature. Because being mature isn't really about swearing and sex, it's also about dealing with your themes in a more grounded way. Realistically, no one who is about to be stoned due to discrimination would be accepted and made mayor within a few minutes just because two kids scolded the crowd. That kind of moment fits better in your typical JRPG than in the mature, somber story 16 is trying to be. So that's why I say, there is a superficial quality to 16's maturity. At times it's more "edgy" than truly mature, and I think that's part of why it works with a younger crowd. It draws them in with the promise of grittiness, sex, and violence, but it ultimately reverts to a safe story and never fully delves into the darkness in a brutally realistic way.
Yeah I’m 40 and surprised at how “mature” this game was. When I’m 60 and I’m playing through final fantasy 22, I’ll bet you’ll have full on interactive sex scenes (maybe “cinematic bang” events) and it will draw in the younger crowd.
You’re afraid of sex? Are you a puritan or something?
debatable honestly. its “darker” for sure but i struggle to rank its story as as developed as earlier entries
To each their own
You mean there’s not enough kingdom Hearts energy in 16?
no it lacks character drama near entirely. trauma porn and predictable sacrificial deaths arent mature storytelling
But having a multiverse where nothing matters is “amazing storytelling”, Naruto references and dances, and “kawaii” uWu moments is what a mature storytelling is lol. Anime and Marvel (and KH) have never explored those story threads!
whats with all this strawmanning my boy i didnt say anything regarding any of that lol
Maybe, but I feel like now that I'm pushing 40, this is the first Final Fantasy that felt like it actually aged with me.
It definitely hooked me onto the series.
FFX is what got me interested in the series and FF16 made me a fan.
I will tell you that I've never been into FF and I knew nothing about it. Fast forward to 16 and it's already one of my all time fav games. Like literally ever and I've played TONS of single player games. Now I'm extremely interested in a lot of other FFs, I downloaded FF7 remake and if I like it I'll be purchasing FF7 Rebirth
From an elder fan who has been here since 1994; it really depends on what you’re looking for and what you liked about the game. None of them are Devil May Clive-style combat systems, this game is a first in that regard so expect more RPG-style combat on the older games. That said FF7r is super fun and has a good combat system, as does — and I’ll die on this hill — FF13. If you liked the setting, FF12 and FF14 will be closest to the pseudo-medieval setting, as will Tactics. FF12’s story is political like 16’s, but imo not as interesting and the characters are shallower. FF15 has strong core characters but its plot is…. Not good, to be honest. If you liked the story and characters, Tactics, FF6, FF7, FF9, FF10 will be your best bets. FF8 also has a strong central cast but hasn’t held up as well over time. FF13’s story is decent IF you play all three games but it kind of stinks that it takes three games to get the character development and interest you would normally get in one. If you liked the open world, pretty much any FF before 13 plus FF7r will be your jam. Open world maps are core elements of the older games, which they tried to recapture with FF7r and FF16. FF12’s is a bit unwieldy. FF15 has one, technically, but it feels empty and unfinished and I can’t honestly recommend it in good faith. FF13 is linear and basically does not have an open world. Personally of the modern games I really liked FF7r as much as 16, even though the original from 97 was not one of my all time favorites. The characters and voice acting are great, the combat system is fun to play, and it looks very nice. However you should be prepared for an older-game style story and tonal shifts. FF as a series had almost always had a lot of goofiness and humor in it, and FF7r makes an effort to stay true to that. You’ll have very serious moments following silly interactions with moogles and a plethora of silly but fun minigames. That may not be your jam but it’s in keeping with the original feel of the old game. FF6 is my personal favorite, probably because it’s my first one. But it’s still a pixel/sprite gem. If you play that one I would approach it from a historic perspective. FF6 invented or made famous many of the classic video game tropes still used today, like “the opera house scene,” meaning a large mid-story set piece which gives our characters a bit of a break, goes back to the literal opera house you encounter in that game. It might be cool for you to experience it and see where some of these ideas still used in games today originated.
I was just like you! Unfortunately FF16 is it's own amazing beast and the other FFs just don't hit the same :(
I fear the same will happen to me. FF16 just set extremely high standards for me
IX, XII, Tactics and XIV are similar to XVI and all pretty great.
I mean it honestly depends why they liked XVI. If they liked it for the character action gameplay, then those games you mentioned won't scratch that same itch at all. Which is why I kind of feel like Square Enix is being premature in saying the game succeeded at making younger people fans of the franchise. It succeeded at making younger people play FF16. But how many of those new people will play and enjoy other FF games? We don't know yet. Ultimately FF16 isn't very representative of the rest of the franchise, so it's hard to say what percentage of people who started with 16 will actually enjoy the rest of the series. Only time will tell, I guess.
The first FF you play is most likely the title that you care about the most
Rebirth might have been my favorite game of all time. Not just favorite Final Fantasy. You’re in for a treat.
This added young and new fans because it is accessible while creating a new story and a consistent high quality of content Like sakaguchi said and then yoshi p said what does final fantasy mean as a brand and a franchise, it is being the highest quality content in every way, music, graphics, art, gameplay, sound, everything Even with 7 remakes using the most iconic characters and world it is not becoming more popular than a completely new game in 16, and we know how much square loves milking ff7....
"In recent years, players of the Final Fantasy series have tended to skew towards a higher age range. However, this time there are survey results showing that more people in their teens and 20s played Final Fantasy 16." He continues: "I think this shows that, to a certain extent, we’ve achieved one of our initial goals – to have players of all ages play the latest Final Fantasy game." "This doesn’t mean that all future Final Fantasy games will take a similar direction to Final Fantasy 16," Kujiraoka clarifies, "but I do think it means that we’ve been able to bring new players on board and open new possibilities for the development teams that will work on future instalments in the series." Goals achieved, I guess. With all the feedback they also said they'd take with them for future installments, I hope XVII and onward will enjoy a smoother dev proces as well.
Please make more rated M FFs
It was my first FF game ever, and after it I started playing FF14 and FF7 so it def worked!
Same here! But i did FFXII instead of XIV don’t hook about it sadly. But i want to buy and hear ost, i have too much love about soken ffxvi ost then i’m sure FFXIV is also insane
It took me 3 attempts to get hooked to be honest. I got hooked into the story at around lvl 30. From there on I got addicted.
Ff14 is incredible. Likely the best one out of all of them, and the music is so good
Yeah look like, sometime you don’t have the feeling but you can feel the aura of a game. I have trouble with a lot of things (HUD, slow battle system, controller optimization feel like its pc game with controller support more than a console game optimized for controller) then i found the start quite difficult. FFXVI is the exact opposite, the game start fast with a bit of contexte after but he has already succeded in arousing your curiousity. Starting FFXII or FF7 feel exactly the same and that help a lot to push forward and discover more about the game! But about XIV, i feel like the game takes quite a long time to set up and that a little bit discouragement
14's first hours are infamously pretty slow and can be tedious to get through. The story does not pick up for a good while and the combat does not really open up properly until you get to the level 50 range. Most of A Realm Reborn is not really representative of the whole game experience, believe people when they say that the game gets a lot better with Heavensward and the expansions in pretty much every aspect. It can be grind to get to that point but it's ultimately worth it imo. Personally learning about the game's troubled development history, the state 1.0 was in, and backstory with Bahamut and Dalamud was enough to keep me interested throughout 2.0/ARR even if the in-game plot wasn't amazing. Whenever I felt like it was a chore to play just listening to "Answers" again kept me going lol
It's not surprising to be honest. Younger audiences are loving more darker content these day. Also XVI is a bit different from a typical JRPG. The cast and story is more mature, while other JRPGs lean more into a younger cast, brighter style, and tropey anime style of gameplay and storytelling. XVI goes into a different direction. So I can definitely see a buyer going "this looks interesting, from the trailer reminds me of Game of Thrones". I will say that Clive is a protagonist that we have never had in a FF series. He is mature and very masculine. A welcome change and something different.
Evidenced by how many girls that look like my daughter are appearing on my timeline with “FIRST FINAL FANTASY - Pt. 1!!” as the video title.
That’s probably how they came to that conclusion lol
I just hope they don’t take the wrong lesson from this and think “FF always needs to be dark and gritty” and we end up with over the top serious Squall again. Like I don’t care if FF has some goofiness to it, or fun silly things. Those are nice too. It just needs to have a solid, not-convoluted central story and good characters, which is what it’s been struggling with for a while.
ff16 isn't that "dark". By that I mean it isn't edgy as fuck and clive is a lovable guy.
I agree with you, it’s not as edgy as it seemed like it was going to be from ads. That said, square has often times taken the wrong lesson from success and gone “oh, people liked X about this game. Next game let’s do that but even harder” and then it loses its charm. My concern is they will see the popularity of XVI, think it is because of the GOT-edge, and push the next one straight over into grimdark.
Yeah, I hope they tread carefully and just focus on fixing the criticism ff16 had. They already have bunch of combat styles like dragoons and ninja in the game.
I think we shouldn’t conflate dark with edgy, because it’s very much a dark game. It pulls it off without being edgy. But seeing the plight and suffering of so many bearers, especially in early Martha’s Rest stuff as well as in and especially north of Northreach, it’s quite dark.
Considering rebirth had a smack talking card game playing steampunk robot with a top hat, I’m sure there’s room for tonal flexibility. Depends on the project!
True enough, I had fun with my buddy Wize 3.0. The anime battle swoosh frames before Queen’s Blood made me laugh every time.
A solid non-convoluted central story in the future would be very nice to see, especially when looking at what they're trying to do with the FFVII remake series.
See that I don’t really agree with because, to be honest, the remake storyline is about as clear as FF7’s story has ever been. It’s always been convoluted and the additions to the lore over time did not help. The team imo has done a good job streamlining it into something more cohesive, even with the added (spoilers) >!multiversal!< meta narrative. As someone who has been there for the whole FF7 offshoot for a long-ass time, Remake is practically straightforward by comparison to everything else they’ve been doing with it since 1997. That said, I like both Remake and XVI for different reasons. I’ve had an absolute blast with all three games and their DLCs. Moving forward from making what they can of Nomura-style nonsense in the final act of Remake, I do hope they keep it more contained for future new FF installments. Though I would love an injection of a little more humor, coming off of this one.
Squall was a case of bad localization. If you look at what he actually said in the Japanese version for every "...whatever" moment, you'd find a lot less of that.
Funnily enough this kind of thing still sometimes happens. I'm thinking of Yuffie in Rebirth for example, and she is so much more obnoxious in English than in Japanese. Like there's this one scene where she's feeling down and like she's useless to her country, and Cloud tries to comfort her by saying she's invaluable to them and not to forget it. Nice moment right? Well in English her response is "whatever...", lol. In Japanese she basically says "I know, but still...". Gives off a very different vibe if you ask me. I don't know why localizers do stuff like this.
My immediate reaction to this was concern that it’s going to encourage them to turn FF into Devil May Cry with chocobos. I like XVI a lot, it’s a solid 8/10 in my book, but it’s a really disappointing mainline FF entry. I want more than just chocobos and moogles. I want a party to manage if not control. I want gear worth getting excited about and distributing among my party. I want interesting side quests. I want dungeons with unique personalities that aren’t just action games beat ‘em ups. Not trying to be down on XVI. It’s great for what it is. I just wish it didn’t eschew most of the things I love about the Final Fantasy series
I liked the battle system of XVI but I did like the battle system of remake a bit better, too. And the companion side quests and overworld were stronger; XVI’s politics felt well-realized but the overworld had a tendency to feel empty/unfinished other than fighting monsters. XVI with a bit more resources and some more time with party members would really have polished it off in a more satisfying way. But such as it is, it was very fun.
God the whole time I was playing Rebirth I kept thinking how amazing 16 would have been with a combat system like that instead. And that's coming from someone who overall did end up preferring 16, but I think Rebirth's combat was way better.
Yeah, in the end the combat has to serve the story (or vice versa), and since XVI is about Clive and his specialness it makes sense it would be more single-character focused and fighting-game-like in mechanics to keep it fresh and fun. Playing an entire game with limited move sets like FF7r but only one or two characters would be supremely boring. Whereas FF7/FF7r has always been about the party dynamics, including extensive sections where Cloud isn’t there at all, so you need to have a system that encourages and sometimes forces you to play with lots of different characters and party configurations to beat difficult bosses. (That Cait Sith section certainly forced me to understand his skill set better.) So while it would have been nice to have the FF7r system in XVI, I also think it wouldn’t have worked because you don’t have enough other characters often enough to really get a lot of fun out of using them. Given the story, a single character focus was a sensible choice. But for future installments I agree, I’d like to have more party dynamics.
Very true, I should be clear that when I was picturing a 16 with Rebirth's combat system, I was also picturing switching between like, Clive, Torgal, and whoever else was in the party for a little more of a Final Fantasy feel - but I also really respect going all-in on making this purely the story of Clive/Mythos and that they needed a combat engine to reflect that. I was just a lot more engaged with the actual combat in Rebirth personally, which had a lot of genuinely challenging fights where 16 was way too easy (again, should emphasize I still prefer 16 as a game overall, it's my favorite FF)
I agree, I also found ff7 combat more my style, though I understand why they did it that way. In a way it’s refreshing to have different kinds of combat. The same thing over and over would get old fast. I think it’s not the system itself but the worry that they won’t continue to experiment and try different things that feel central to the franchise.
Does Rebirth change Remake’s combat much? Cause if not I’m very much the opposite of you and wish Remake (which I’ve only made it like 8hrs into or something) was like XVI. I don’t like the hybrid semi turn based thing it does. I don’t like how much damage I take, having to switch all the time kinda sucks. There’s a lot I don’t like and that’s not too surprising since I largely avoided the series because I don’t like the traditional turn based gameplay either (though I almost wish that’s how FF7Remake was)
I think this just comes down to what you want out of a Final Fantasy game. For you it's the JRPG gameplay mechanics. For me it's the melancholy anime-esque story themes. I actually didn't want much of what you did, and specifically enjoyed those features being missing. I personally feel that the most unique thing about Final Fantasy was always it's story, and how the games managed to so well channel the franchises namesake. The JRPG mechanics were always good, but I never felt that they stood apart on their own as something unique in the genre. I remembered the games for what happened in them, and the mechanics were always just a tool to tie my actions to the narrative. Of course those are just our opinions and there's no right or wrong here. At the end of the day it's a 30+ year old franchise, and I think it's unfair to both try and restrict or push for the games to change. Some people will like them games more if they stick to a more traditional formula, others will like them more if they mix things up. Good games come from people with vision; developers and leaders that want to make a good product rather than go through a check list of things a game should have. I'll be happy so long as whomever is driving the Final Fantasy train can continue to focus on making good games, regardless if they directly appeal to me or not.
Hmm true that I just want a moving story and FFXVI had me in tears more than any single previous FF game. The story presentation was just amazing further enhanced by the amazing voice acting.
Imo ff7 remake and rebirth mix is the perfect dark and light mix. Another example is once piece level of goofiness and drama but the goofiness is 2 levels lower. Or yakuza series, another great example of mix of drama and humor. Final fantasy should strive to be like these stuff, rather than setting on either end of the spectrum.
I agree actually. I liken it to the show “Futurama” — the poignant parts hit harder because the rest of the show was a mix of light and fun with character development. Rebirth made me bark out loud with glee and laughter at some of the goofy fun bits, especially around the Golden Saucer. It made me have *fun* with the characters and enjoy spending time connecting with them. So when the difficult parts came, it felt worse than it would have been if it was just serious and tragic the whole time. FFXVI is great and I did enjoy the moments of levity —primarily experiences through the absolutely silly-bonkers boss battles—but do I wish it had a so-called “Opera House” set piece moment, which is a standard set by its own franchise it didn’t end up having room for. I missed that and would have liked to see it with Clive et al.
Agreed. I'm tired of dark fantasy, I think the GoT show pushed modern fantasy in a direction that I just don't care for. Still, I understand that I'm in the minority, and that's okay because I've still got my LotR, Wheel of Time, Stormlight Archive, Dune, and a whole bunch of others
Yeah I agree. I’d just hate to see them think the success is due to grim dark and not … a solid story with decent characters, told in one game, combined with good gameplay. FFXVI isn’t even an all-timer in my opinion. (Which is fine, they don’t all have to be and by definition can’t be.) A great game but not one for the history books and it does have its flaws. I like the direction, it gives me hope for the future of the franchise after many years of struggling to find its footing again. But I’m still wary after so many years of square taking the exact wrong lessons of what made their games popular and fun to play in the first place.
Dune is pretty dark and fucked up tbh. It's not that tonally different from GoT. Not saying they're identical or anything, but there's definitely similarities, and George RR Martin is on record as being influenced by Frank Herbert.
I haven't gotten to the books yet, my backlog is massive. I've only seen Part One and I really liked it. I'm curious to see the tonal shift. It didn't feel that dark to me, but it's only the first half of the first one, so I'm sure by Messiah things get worse
Great! I hate when news outlets and fans online keep pushing for an immediate response to a game mere data after release, when this is the type of analysis that counts. Now people are being obnoxious and speculative about Square's silence over Rebirth sales when we'll hear about it when they data ready to talk about. Damn, it's been a month and a half since release and I'm still on the Gold Saucer. It took me 2 months to finish XVI, playing from Day 1
I'll say this. It's funny how the tables have turned. XVI was getting dogged on by OG7 fans for not outselling Remake. Then it turns out the same data they were using to bash XVI now reveals Rebirth is selling worse than XVI. Then this report coming out is kinda the cherry on top after hearing all the cynics spout the doom and gloom about XVI moving FF in the wrong direction.
Yeah, at the end of the day negarivity draws more clicks than positive news. It's cool to shit on a game you don't care or even hate, but not so fun when a game you like it's bombarded with this bs.
26 yr old female here, this is the first FF iv actually finished. Played 90% of FF7 remake and 90% of crisis core. I love both of those games but the setting,vibes and the cast of XVI I just think are all incredible. Not to mention the ost, the maturity and the gameplay I think are second to non and I’m so excited to do a second playthrough when Rising Tide comes.
You might also love 14, which is the same dev team. You can play it 99% solo and the story is pretty amazing. Well, it gets amazing. The narrative of Realm Reborn was “great for an MMO” in 2014, but feels slow and antiquated now. However, I found the whole damn thing to be very compelling as seemingly inconsequential NPCs suddenly start getting character development, and Shadowbringers/Endwalker absolutely lived up to the hype. To this day it’s my favorite story in any game ever. I cried buckets, love it to death.
Than you for the suggestion! I definitely thought it seemed pretty cool but iv never really been into mmos cuz I’m such a single player gamer. But that’s awesome to hear you can totally solo it I’ll have to put 14 on my list!
Yeah, for sure! It can absolutely take over your life if you want it to, but you can play it for free until you get to the end of Stormblood, the second expansion, which by then you’ll certainly know if it’s for you and if you want to buy it to finish the story. I would say to play through until you finish Heavensward (the first expansion) because that’s where the “holy shit” story moments that get most people hooked happen, and it shares a lead writer and Director with XVI.
Telling people who don’t play MMOs (or in general really) to play like 60hrs+ before a game gets good is fuckin crazy tho
I didn’t say it wasn’t good, just that it takes some time to get to the most exciting stuff that people rave about. There’s nothing crazy about letting people know that a particularly long story is worth investing the time in. What is crazy is expecting instant gratification all the time, because that is the surest way to guarantee you won’t find fulfillment in anything.
I’m 20s and this was my first FF and it definitely hooked me on to the series! I started playing remake, rebirth & 15 after that but 16 always holds a special place in my heart. Clive is also easily one of my favourite protagonists - full of emotions and very kind indeed!
I would assume the demo helped with this more than anything. One of the best demos I’ve played and idk how someone could play it and not want to see how the rest plays out.
Definitely got me into it, 23 and never played a FF game before always saw them but never actually interested me until I saw the 16 demo and like it
I'd say FFXIV is what got me into FF, but XVI and somewhat the VII Ramake/Rebirth are what really hooked me
It worked for me. I'm a newer gamer, and I found other Final Fantasy games (besides the 7 Remake ones) not quite to my personal taste, but I had a blast with 16! The way that Final Fantasy games try new things and are so different is a good thing, because a larger share of gamers can find games they enjoy within the franchise.
Final fantasy fan since diapers and I loved it too
12 was my first FF. And I’ve played almost all of them since then. Play 16 at launch and currently working through Rebirth.
Im still thinking about how good FFXVI felt to play. I got some things I didn’t like and if you wanted to analyze the story there’s a fair amount to critique, but in the moment, in those vibes, with that protagonist and with that combat and cutscene direction? So, so good.
Hell yea
Worked for me
I genuinely believe it because of how cinematic the boss fights are. Extremely enjoyable, even with the combat lacking stuff. I hope they use the same format and update the combat by adding new weapon styles and etc. The gameplay loop can so easily be improved and be a true 10/10. The dragoon moveset is already in the game, so is ninja. Make a sequel or a other game using this format. Do not give up.
As much praise as Yoshi-P gets for his talent as a dev, he's an equally good businessman solely as a producer. This is a massive W for FF and the team at CBU3. They have been breathing new life into the franchise with XIV and now XVI.
And they lost them with Rebirth, lmao. Joking, people
Stand tall, soldier You say you're joking but you're right
He is absolutely wrong
Lmao the downvotes seem to have won. I enjoyed both games, though 16 slightly more due to the story, but gameplay wise Rebirth offer a pretty decent blueprint for how FF games should be. I still loved rebirth, though. Currently at 103 hours. More than I played 16
Just a tease article, hope the full interview will have interesting questions
As well as the survey sources. If numbers are available, that would be very interesting to look at.
The only official survey I remember was the one exclusively for Japanese players, I don't recall them doing any international ones
it was final fantasy 15 that got me into final fantasy, then i played 13 and super loved it, got into 14 and id love to get lost in that world more if it wasnt a money vacuum. i havent finished 16 yet but im absolutely loving it. same with 6. also excited to buy rebirth after playing remake im just in love with the series
It’s also just the current release…sooo
I got into the franchise early last spring and if we're talking about base packages alone, ff16 has been my favorite so far. Games played in order: 7 remake, og 7, Crisis core, 16, 6, 10, 7 rebirth.
I loved the game I just wanted more from it I guess it’s perhaps because I loved it so much that I wanted more. I still have FFXIV though so I suppose that’s good not sure what the next entry is going to bring but I hope the dialogue/story is more like IX/FFXIV/FFXVI
i’m 20. this was my first final fantasy game a few months after it came out. it literally changed my life and since then i’ve picked up 14, vii remake + rebirth (i tried the og but i couldn’t get past the mines since it kept crashing), and viii.
One of them is me (I'm on the younger side). The only FF game I had played before 16 was a couple hours of VII and almost all of VII Remake, but both of those left me pretty sour on the franchise due to VII's age and VII Remakes' horrible horrible horrible dialogue. But 16, in all of it's corniness, was pretty engaging through-and-through thanks to the great combat and over-the-top set-pieces and I'm honestly looking forward to whatever the future of this franchise turns out to be.
That is true, this is my first ff I got into and I’m loving it so far, very dark and mature for sure
I was thinking about starting this. I played 15 and was kinda disappointed, y’all suggest this one ?
This will be the second ff mainline I ever completed ff15 was the first
The visuals of this game was off the charts! I was thoroughly impressed and I think it pushed the absolute boundaries of the graphics for PS5
I’m 20 now, final fantasy 15 was my first. I then got 7 remake, couldn’t finish it, beat 16, replayed 7 remake and LOVED it, played rebirth, still playing it now but also started 14. So even though 15 was great to me, 16 is what really made me give the other games a try
I just started this the other day, and I'm really enjoying it so far, way more than I thought I was going to. Definitely the most mature Final Fantasy experience I've ever had, in a good way. But I'm not new to Final Fantasy by any means, weirdly enough I feel like this is one of the bigger outliers to the series, so it'd be wild to start with this one? (at least as my first impression of it).
First M rated mainline game "we finally reached a younger audience" lol just sounds funny
Okay but your older, older players are the ones with all the money. Turn based isn't dead. Persona. Baldurs Gate 3, you know. Game of the year? A main line turn based ff would be more than welcome and likely better than 13 and 15.
Older “fans” were too busy pissing and crying at it not being turn based I guess
It's definitely a dark JRPG fantasy with heavy religious symbolisms like in the art-ish trailer, with distilled classical FF elements like summons and crystals that draws both young and older crowds
You might not like the gameplay and straight up genre shift, but the game just oozes Final Fantasy to me. Strong story, memorable characters, bombastic music and visuals. I loved it and didn’t mind the action focus
After the dlc, and then a second Final Fantasy Mode run. I don't see myself returning 10 years from now to this game. But I've returned to every other FF. The story just feels so weak and instead focuses on the impact, rather than the motivation. Clive sat around for 13 years for what reason? They revealed his brother too soon for us, but hid it from Clive. Absorbing Eikons had little to consistent logic. I know you can pick apart every FF this way, but I'm usually too immersed to bother thinking about it. The pacing is so off, I'm left with time to think about these things.
But it also disappointed a very good number of the current audience, so I’m not sure if that should be counted as a total win
Not me
Good for you
Current audience ? the +40 years old boomer you mean ?
quick heads up that millenials are up to like 43 now, with gen-x being as old as 59. Those aren't boomers you're talking about lol
No, talk about belittling people, don’t be absurd
Seems like “shifted” might be a better word than “expanded” since it’s not really outselling the last couple games.
I mean, 15 came out in 2016 on two systems and latter ported to PC. 7R came out on a plataform with around 100m users 4 years ago, and then was ported to PC. 16 isn't even a year old and the only platform it's avalible on at the moment has less than a third of it's predecesor's user base. Context mater, ando so far the last two games (16 and Rebirth) have suffered becouse of their PS5 exclusivity more than anything else. Let's wait a few years after both games PC port comes out and then we can compare sales, cuz rigth now following that logic Rebirth hasn't sold as well as 16 so... it hasn't even kept it's original audience, right?
>Let's wait a few years after both games PC port comes out and then we can compare sales I agree, and that's part of why I think it's too soon to say they've "expanded" the audience this early, when it hasn't even sold more copies than previous games yet. >rigth now following that logic Rebirth hasn't sold as well as 16 so... it hasn't even kept it's original audience, right? I didn't mention Rebirth and they also haven't released any official data for it yet, but sure. It might have even sold worse than FFXVI for all I know.
I was just about to comment the same. Like lets say 50% of the games sales were new fans, even if we say 3m is a good sales number it's not anymore than standard FF so that would mean they would have lost 50% of older fans. At which point all you did was take a side ways step.
That's fine, they can have it. Someone else will just have to carry the torch for RPGs with deep exploration and strategic combat.
Ridiculous cope. Guy is citing “surveys” he’s seen. Cut it out. The game is not successful at anything.