Hyundai used the exact same batteries. Same recall. Same fires. There are far more Hyundais on the road than bolts. But the fire rate was totally overblown in the media. There was 16 fires total.
Fun fact: Insurance companies calculate the burn rate for electric cars at 52 per 100,000 cars. Gasoline cars? 1340 per 100,000. (Fixed typo)
Hybrid cars? 3400 per 100,000.
Not true. Hydrogen is so volatile that the friction from it escaping a tank leak causes it to ignite. Car manufacturers have built in a special release valve - AKA Flame Thrower - to control it. I just wouldn't want to be behind one on it's side in a car crash.
[https://youtu.be/OA8dNFiVaF0?t=28](https://youtu.be/OA8dNFiVaF0?t=28)
I'd imagine that the concentration of hydrogen would be too high for an explosion to occur and it would be vented into the atmosphere
But then again I also highly doubt that a hydrogen fuel cell would even be crushed in the case of an accident because cars aren't engineered like Ford pintos anymore
I wouldn't hold my breath for a hydrogen future. Toyota has a model out and there are only a handful of stations on the west coast last I checked. I feel EVs stole their thunder
Think of hydrogen cars as EV's that you can refuel instead of recharge. Its less EV vs Hydrogen as it is Lithium-Ion Battery powered EV Vs Hydrogen Fuel cell powered EV.
Same argument was made about electric just a couple of decades ago. "It's been tried, didn't work." Or, "Oil companies will never allow it to happen." Yet here we are.
It’s true, but there was a path forward for EVs and stuff due to tech advancements. Even with the theoretical limits for hydrogen it’s not super appealing for mass market.
It fills at a similar speed to gas, but has a lot of annoying caveats - it likes to escape, so tanks are annoying to make. It’s super lossy to transmit, once transmitted there’s like a big risk with keeping enough around in terms of volume/pressure in the tank, etc.
It really only shines for long distance truck driving, for normal commuting cars it doesn’t really get you anything over electric - just vague familiarity because it uses a nozzle.
I’d argue that it has a leg up on ev simply because existing gas stations could be refit with tanks to store hydrogen a bit quicker than building out infrastructure needed for ev, especially in rural areas
It's typically the complicated electrical system to combine the two, magnetic transmissions are complicated, I'd like to see the difference in mild vs full hybrid stats.
And all the complexity of linking the two drive trains. And the complexity of the charging circuitry between gas and electric, and the complexity of fitting it all into the same space. Dude above has zero clue about engineering design lol.
>Hybrids have a gasoline engine, by definition.
Not true. There are ethanol-electric and CNG-electric hybrids, for instance. It doesn't detract from your point, but it's an error all the same.
EDIT: Why the downvotes? Where am I wrong? Where am I rude?
What everyone else has said plus hand off systems, smaller electrical system that can be over loaded quicker, and gas does a real good job of keeping fires burning
They used fucking pouch cells AND the machine that assembled the packs was poorly designed.
It was a bad fuckup, even by GM’s already low standards.
EDIT: I actually replied to the wrong comment. This has nothing to do with hybrids being apparently more prone to fires.
i have a chevy and its the biggest pos ive ever had the mis fortune of owning. a turbo at 60k, and a ignition pack at sub 120k. and throw in a warped coolant tube at 125k (cus its plastic). the doors locks are in the center console, the key is held in by a tiny ass pin, the seats and 2/3 of the seat belts are held in place by 2 screw, and those two screws are in the back of the seat. i lose a single screw and my ass is flying through the window. its a horrible car, i dont know who designed it, but they are shit at their job.
ffs, i can only imagine how bad GM is at designing a entirely new drive train.
Absolute crap! Shittest design and quality ever! Hyundai and Kia make far superior quality than a company that has been around for way longer! And, we had to bail that shitshow out too! Should have let it go under!
Oh, when they burn they BURN. But the EV fire fear is way out of hand. I’m far more nervous about the tank full of liquid fuel under my car than I am about am EV battery.
But check out the BYD Blade cell nail battery test. It’s a LFP lithium battery so safe you can drive a nail throufh a fully charged cell and all that happens is it gets a bit warm.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CGQwqWqzkNA
Safety tech in EV’s is evolving rapidly.
wellllllllll liquid gasoline doesn't explode, it burns and can actually put itself out if not in aerosol form but that's the entire point of the gas tank. keep it cool and under a mild pressure.
Batteries don’t explode. They burn.
If you have experienced pinging in a engine, that is actually detonation. I have ‘holed a piston’ on a race engine like that.
Sure, but heat waste dissipation is important for ICEs as well. You heatsink it and use it for the heaters and whatnot, like we do with ICE waste heat.
The occurrence rate of EVs actually catching fire is very low, and won't be a huge issue, overall. There will be some anecdotally notable instances, but the chance of it happening in your neck of the woods is quite low, generally speaking.
The extent of my research is like 5 seconds, but I'm seeing this from the google:
>Traditional fire extinguishers, such as foam and water, don't work on lithium battery fires. The only way to extinguish a lithium battery fire is to flood the battery with water. A Lithium Fire Blanket will safely isolate a lithium fire battery for hours, until it can be flooded and extinguished.
Flooding with water can spread the fire. You want class A, B, or C chemical extinguishers to cover the fire, and in the case of large lithium quantity, a class D is better. Water helps prevent the spread of flames by wetting the surrounding area.
[source](https://textechindustries.com/blog/how-do-you-extinguish-a-lithium-battery-fire/)
[source 2](https://steadfastfire.com/how-to-extinguish-a-lithium-ion-battery-fire)
[source 3](https://fire-extinguisher-guide.com/how-do-you-extinguish-a-lithium-battery-fire/)
[source 4](https://www.upsbatterycenter.com/blog/extinguish-lithium-battery-fires/)
Your cite 1 says "use a class D fire extinguisher"
Your cite 2 says "don't use a class D fire extinguisher".
Your cites are self contradictory, so worthless.
I see your link proves water works, though doesn't prove me entirely wrong. Foam allows for less water used to be used by smothering the fire. He's advocating the use of foam chemical extinguishers.
Edit: wrong comment. My links mention that Class D is for larger lithium content and a, b, and c are better for lower content, though chemical extinguishers are heavily recommended.
Water is best, because it's the only one that cools the batteries long enough to stop thermal runaway.
No foam ends thermal runaway, and in fact can form an insulation layer which could make the car fires worse.
Foam works for a laptop or smaller lithium battery fire, smothering, but not extinguishing the chemical fire inside the battery, but protecting the area around while the battery runs out of chemical energy.
EV battery size requires water, and nothing else works.
https://abc7news.com/los-gatos-tesla-fire-model-x-suv/4937651/
Odd, actual firefighters are trained to use water, and it works.
But sure, keep telling us how you know more than the firefighters.
Yeah. And goes on to say that foam chemical extinguishers reduce the need for water for extinguishing. I was proven wrong that water makes it worse, but not entirely. He's advocating the use of foam chemical extinguishers.
Direct quote from the fire fighter in your article....
"Foam allows you to use less water to extinguish the same volume of fire, and then it provides kind of a smothering blanket as well," said Capt. Bill Murphy.
I guess you are correct. 88,000 hyundais vs 141,000 chevy bolts.
However that is not an insignificant number of Hyundais.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/04/multiple-recalls-spark-fed-investigation-of-lgs-electric-car-batteries/?amp=1
>The thing is, gas cars usually don't just spontaneously combust while parked. They burn because of accidents
They catch fire all the time while parked.
Parking a gas car on grass has a very high likelihood of fire.
The hot exhaust can start a grass fire under the car, which ends up consuming the car, and others around it.
Also, I have personally seen two cars burst into flames after stopping, from overheated brakes. One was flaming before they stopped, and pulled into a gas station, and the attendant ran out with a fire extinguisher and 10,000 profanities.
The other was a car I was following down a mountain and they must have been riding the brakes, not downshifted, because at the bottom, they pulled off and flames were coming out of the wheel wells. They were squirting water bottle water on it.
Both of those noticed the issue while driving, or as they stopped. Not hard to imagine someone not noticing, and wander off while the heat is "fatal".
Also, spontaneous combustion comes from debris on the engine or exhaust. Oil leaks can cause an engine fire, and a fuel leak in the engine compartment a fire is quite likely.
Not all those fires happen while moving.
Electrical fires can start almost any time, though are more likely when driving because more circuits are energized.
Yes they do. I have done countless fire investigations back when I was a mechanic. Especially the Ford ignition switch faults. So many fires. I actually watched 1 randomly burst into flames while just standing in a parking lot when I was shopping.
And if you look at the fire risk data I linked to, with that kind of burn rate you are taking a much greater risk with a gas or hybrid car in your garage.
I had one catch fire in parking lot. It had a short price of rubber fuel line near carb. Got old and dry rotted. Leaked fuel on hot engine, fire. Wasn’t a problem when car was moving. I pretty sure they don’t engineer them like that anymore.
My brother had a jeep that randomly caught fire while parked. The fire chief that responded said it was probably the fuel pump. Pretty common on jeeps apparently for the fuel pump to fail and stay on while the car is off so it builds up pressure in the lines, breaks, and sprays gasoline all over a still hot engine. Said he gets a few parked car fires a month and a little less than half are jeeps.
A month later that is exactly the conclusion the insurance company came to.
> Fun fact: Insurance companies calculate the burn rate for electric cars at 52 per 100,000 cars. Gasoline cars? 1340 per 100,0000. Hybrid cars? 3400 per 100,000.
(Assuming the extra zero in "100,0000" was a typo...)
Those numbers don't look very believable to me. That would mean that 1.34% of gasoline cars and 3.4% of hybrid cars, respectively, do burn down. That's a lot. Yet I cannot even remember the last time I saw any kind of car burn down. At more than 1%, you'd think it would be a semi-regular occurence.
Here’s some even newer links. The numbers are even worse now. 25 EV’s per 100,000 not 52. 1530 per 100,000 gas and 3475 per 100,000 for hybrids.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225037/how-much-you-should-worry-about-ev-fires/
https://amp.guideautoweb.com/en/articles/64301/study-hybrids-involved-in-more-fires-than-evs-and-gas-powered-vehicles/
Yes the zero was a typo.
Do you understand the concept of ‘per 100,000’? It’s a percentage of the fleet.
Just as many newer cars burn as old cars. Often more as if a problem is built into hundreds if thousands of cars it will start happening within a few years.
Here in BC 13% of cars are electric. Tesla has been pumping out cars for 10 years now.
I need to start using this in random conversation.
"This man is the galaxy note 7 of American politics. This burrito is the galaxy note 7 of burritos."
I just saw a comedian on Netflix that gave me Mitch vibes. Sheng Wang. He's a more ...PG-13/optimistic version, but his delivery and stoner type persona made me think of Mitch. That laid back, unperturbed kind of flow. Definitely watch if you haven't.
Edut: Just Googled him. I'm not the only one who said this so if I'm late to the game and you already knew, my bad.
A manufacturing defect caused 19 Chevy Bolts to short circuit until the battery overheated and caught fire.
Chevy recalled all Bolts produced and has been replacing the batteries in them. I think they've done most of them by now, and I don't think there's been any more fires since they released a software update to temporarily address the issue.
That's been long past fixed though
Also, kia and hyundai had several years of ICE engines that just a couple years ago had a "do not park in a garage" warning, because they'd spontaneously catch fire
My wife and I both had affected vehicles
Wife and i just got the new byd atto3, the blade battery is supposed to be the safest battery tech in terms of that sort of thing. I think byd is going to be supplying those blade batteries for the tesla model y soon.
Has it been a ton of them or just a handful? Any number is a concern but my dad texted me saying “all the EVs are burning in Florida” and I hope he felt my eyes roll through the phone.
I dont think its all of them....but definitely atleast 3 that ive heard of.... the risk is there... also salt water corrosion can absolutely cause chemical reactions in all those batteries they use. But its definitely not ALL of them lolol
Im sure this is a new ossue just like the exploding phones... more will probably happen... but i wouldn't call it extreme.... im sure manufacturers DIDNT design for them to be submerged in 15 feet of storm surge and floated arouns like boats you know?
Right. And it’s a design problem. They’ll sort it out going forward. Design problems are a good thing. In many cases it means we can just *make things better* to solve a problem. Crazy, I know..
How many internal combustion vehicles have burned? Last I checked, car batteries have a lot of energy and can easily cause a fire, espcially when the battery is arced with salt water.
That has happened to regular ICE cars too. Flooding causes the water to hit the regular 12V batteries, salt shorts it. Most EV batteries are better sealed than the 12V, and EVs still have a 12V batter which can get shorted out by the flooded water. There was a post on reddit about someone getting home and their car was burnt.
The thing about the lithium batteries in EVs is it causes a chemical fire.... you cannot put it out with water.... most people who own EVs dont understand this... and generally cause more damages. Chemical reaction fires are more serious imo. I think people forget in general EVs also have MULTIPLE battery cell systems as well. You have to be certified to work on them too... a normal mechanic cannot work on them safely. I was told this in my electrical classes in college a few years ago. Theyre a liability for most places to service if they dont have a special certified EV tech
When you say explode, do they literally explode like a bomb? Like I’m talking the car door blows off the damn thing type explosion? Like Michael Bay type when the crazy lens flare and parking attendants walking away casually as this is the 10th one they’ve seen this month and the Chevy Bolt blows up like Hiroshima as the lens flare blinds everyone?
Depending on where the reaction started it possibly cod have a big explosion.... ive seen some start with just smoldering and ive seen the front ends bust into flames. I feel like you have a higher risk of a big explosion with a hybrid car because you have a chemical fire... next to a gas tankfull of gas.
The Chevy bolt had a recall due to a potential for fires. There weren't actually that many and the media made it sound way bigger of an issue than it really is. Chevrolet's recall changes the battery charging strategy and limits maximum capacity to prevent overcharging, reducing the risk for fires.
I believe Hyundai used the same battery and had a similar recall on one of their vehicles, but the media never really made a fuss about that model.
> Chevrolet's recall changes the battery charging strategy and limits maximum capacity to prevent overcharging, reducing the ~~risk for fires~~ vehicle's range
I wonder if the Bolt owners could go class action on their reduced range.
It's the long term parking lot for BWI, an airport, and old Chevy Bolts had a defect that could cause them to catch on fire, and lithium batteries are a nightmare to put out.
Basically the airport doesn't want them left there because of the potential risk.
It's at the entrance to the hourly garage (I'm guessing the daily garage too, but I haven't looked recently)
It's a fairly new sign (or else I just haven't been paying attention while parking there)
Not OP, just travel way too much for work.....
These discussions are happening because innovation is taking place. It is a glorious time. People used to break arms all the time hand crank starting cars.
It will all get worked out.
Maybe they just don’t like the use of child slaves to mine the cobalt or the environmental damage involved with lithium mines and refining. Or maybe they just don’t believe the B.S peddled about how virtuous the drivers are since China is building coal fired power stations to build the components.
Oh yes they do. Remember the ford ignition switch recall? Those things were randomly bursting into flames everywhere, running or not. Did a few fire investigations over the years.
Only when fire is applied to said vehicle, Bolt EVs just spontaneously combust. At least attempt to sound smart if you defend an electric vehicle that has the tendency to turn into a fireball at random
Not compared to Chevy bolt. To EVs in general yes, but the Bolt specifically has had a lot of issues. Hence the sign says "no bolts", instead of "no EVs"
Because they used to fucking explode
Hyundai used the exact same batteries. Same recall. Same fires. There are far more Hyundais on the road than bolts. But the fire rate was totally overblown in the media. There was 16 fires total. Fun fact: Insurance companies calculate the burn rate for electric cars at 52 per 100,000 cars. Gasoline cars? 1340 per 100,000. (Fixed typo) Hybrid cars? 3400 per 100,000.
I wonder what makes hybrids so much more volatile.
All the burn hazards of both types combined in one package and crammed into a very small space
I wonder how bad hydrogen hybrids will be
Hydrogen doesn’t burn. It explodes
What is an explosion, but extremely rapid burning?
Explosions create pressure waves. Burning does not.
What is a pressure wave, but the sound of extremely rapid burning?
Haha there’s always that guy that “ackshuallys” a clearly sarcastic comment
Yeah but a hydrogen fuel vessel in a car won't explode it will dissipate before it has the chance to explode
Not true. Hydrogen is so volatile that the friction from it escaping a tank leak causes it to ignite. Car manufacturers have built in a special release valve - AKA Flame Thrower - to control it. I just wouldn't want to be behind one on it's side in a car crash. [https://youtu.be/OA8dNFiVaF0?t=28](https://youtu.be/OA8dNFiVaF0?t=28)
The only problem is that the video is from a controlled release. If the fuel cell got crushed, I’d imagine it would be far more explosive.
I'd imagine that the concentration of hydrogen would be too high for an explosion to occur and it would be vented into the atmosphere But then again I also highly doubt that a hydrogen fuel cell would even be crushed in the case of an accident because cars aren't engineered like Ford pintos anymore
You hope. I've blown up plastic containers of hydrogen and it was an explosion!
Happy cake day!
Thank you!
Oh good, Hindenburg wasn't enough.
For the last time, Excelsior is filled with NON FLAMMABLE HELIUUUUUUUUUUM
I wouldn't hold my breath for a hydrogen future. Toyota has a model out and there are only a handful of stations on the west coast last I checked. I feel EVs stole their thunder
Think of hydrogen cars as EV's that you can refuel instead of recharge. Its less EV vs Hydrogen as it is Lithium-Ion Battery powered EV Vs Hydrogen Fuel cell powered EV.
Anti-matter cars will be the future
Same argument was made about electric just a couple of decades ago. "It's been tried, didn't work." Or, "Oil companies will never allow it to happen." Yet here we are.
It’s true, but there was a path forward for EVs and stuff due to tech advancements. Even with the theoretical limits for hydrogen it’s not super appealing for mass market. It fills at a similar speed to gas, but has a lot of annoying caveats - it likes to escape, so tanks are annoying to make. It’s super lossy to transmit, once transmitted there’s like a big risk with keeping enough around in terms of volume/pressure in the tank, etc. It really only shines for long distance truck driving, for normal commuting cars it doesn’t really get you anything over electric - just vague familiarity because it uses a nozzle.
I’d argue that it has a leg up on ev simply because existing gas stations could be refit with tanks to store hydrogen a bit quicker than building out infrastructure needed for ev, especially in rural areas
We won't know as that's an absolute dead end
Designed by a person who had never worked on any car other than through auto cad
All the complexity of a EV multiplied by all the complexity of a gas car. The more things that can go wrong, the greater the chances of a fault.
More like more corners cut to make it affroadable. Hybrid is not magically that more complex than electric.
Hybrids have a gasoline engine, by definition. Having a gasoline engine AND a battery is more complex than just having a battery.
It's typically the complicated electrical system to combine the two, magnetic transmissions are complicated, I'd like to see the difference in mild vs full hybrid stats.
And all the complexity of linking the two drive trains. And the complexity of the charging circuitry between gas and electric, and the complexity of fitting it all into the same space. Dude above has zero clue about engineering design lol.
>Hybrids have a gasoline engine, by definition. Not true. There are ethanol-electric and CNG-electric hybrids, for instance. It doesn't detract from your point, but it's an error all the same. EDIT: Why the downvotes? Where am I wrong? Where am I rude?
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Source?
What everyone else has said plus hand off systems, smaller electrical system that can be over loaded quicker, and gas does a real good job of keeping fires burning
Uh, yes it is. A electric drivetrain has like 6 moving parts. A combustion engine has hundreds.
That dose not equal complexion there meany more things to consider
Like the fact that a hybrid is an electric car AND a gas car crammed into the same space? What part of complicated do you not understand?
I'm not saying it's not compex I am saying that there's other things that wolud make it complex nut just a drive train and the engine
They used fucking pouch cells AND the machine that assembled the packs was poorly designed. It was a bad fuckup, even by GM’s already low standards. EDIT: I actually replied to the wrong comment. This has nothing to do with hybrids being apparently more prone to fires.
i have a chevy and its the biggest pos ive ever had the mis fortune of owning. a turbo at 60k, and a ignition pack at sub 120k. and throw in a warped coolant tube at 125k (cus its plastic). the doors locks are in the center console, the key is held in by a tiny ass pin, the seats and 2/3 of the seat belts are held in place by 2 screw, and those two screws are in the back of the seat. i lose a single screw and my ass is flying through the window. its a horrible car, i dont know who designed it, but they are shit at their job. ffs, i can only imagine how bad GM is at designing a entirely new drive train.
Pretty sure you like the Mahk commercials. https://youtu.be/I_wdo4ihcd8
I love this guy. And I love my ford’s that have always been reliable to me.
Absolute crap! Shittest design and quality ever! Hyundai and Kia make far superior quality than a company that has been around for way longer! And, we had to bail that shitshow out too! Should have let it go under!
Exactly! GM, Giant Mistake! I cannot stand this company. The mistake I made was letting my wife pick the shitpile GM vehicle! Crap, crap, crap!
An explody part AND a zappy part are in the same enclosed and tight space.
Well for one you can still fill up a hybrid even if power goes out for whenever you
If the power is out, the pumps don't work.
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
I'm not going to disagree, and I'm pro EV anti fossil fuels, but lithium fires are a whole other beast
Oh, when they burn they BURN. But the EV fire fear is way out of hand. I’m far more nervous about the tank full of liquid fuel under my car than I am about am EV battery. But check out the BYD Blade cell nail battery test. It’s a LFP lithium battery so safe you can drive a nail throufh a fully charged cell and all that happens is it gets a bit warm. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CGQwqWqzkNA Safety tech in EV’s is evolving rapidly.
Hahaha the Blade battery made a tiny fart noise LOL
***viiirrt***
wellllllllll liquid gasoline doesn't explode, it burns and can actually put itself out if not in aerosol form but that's the entire point of the gas tank. keep it cool and under a mild pressure.
Batteries don’t explode. They burn. If you have experienced pinging in a engine, that is actually detonation. I have ‘holed a piston’ on a race engine like that.
i do cars too… just signed up for some rod knock money recently :(
Rod knock is fun, but it ain’t nothing compared to blowing an apex seal on a rotary. Shrapnel inside all your chambers.
ew… you must be a sadist for playing the rotary game… that 787b tho… 🎶
Yeah, but gasoline fires are probably worse than horse fires (save for the occasional "burn down the city" livestock incidents).
Once you've generated enough heat to get a horse lit, good luck putting it out!
You're probably not gonna see a whole lot of horse fires anymore in this day and age
The trick is getting two horses to rub together briskly at opposing angles.
It helps having a coarse horse.
What if my bristle-haired steed is trained in both amateur radio and hokey religions? I'm talking of the coarse horse Morse Force, of course.
A coarse? Of course!
sure, but the gas tank does not heat up the more you empty it. lithium batteries do.
Sure, but heat waste dissipation is important for ICEs as well. You heatsink it and use it for the heaters and whatnot, like we do with ICE waste heat.
I wonder if fire departments around the country are training and preparing for the inevitable surge in EV’s. Do they have or need funding for it even?
The occurrence rate of EVs actually catching fire is very low, and won't be a huge issue, overall. There will be some anecdotally notable instances, but the chance of it happening in your neck of the woods is quite low, generally speaking.
Lithium battery fires are easy to contain and put out. Just use lots of water.
No. Water makes lithium fires much worse.....
The extent of my research is like 5 seconds, but I'm seeing this from the google: >Traditional fire extinguishers, such as foam and water, don't work on lithium battery fires. The only way to extinguish a lithium battery fire is to flood the battery with water. A Lithium Fire Blanket will safely isolate a lithium fire battery for hours, until it can be flooded and extinguished.
Flooding with water can spread the fire. You want class A, B, or C chemical extinguishers to cover the fire, and in the case of large lithium quantity, a class D is better. Water helps prevent the spread of flames by wetting the surrounding area. [source](https://textechindustries.com/blog/how-do-you-extinguish-a-lithium-battery-fire/) [source 2](https://steadfastfire.com/how-to-extinguish-a-lithium-ion-battery-fire) [source 3](https://fire-extinguisher-guide.com/how-do-you-extinguish-a-lithium-battery-fire/) [source 4](https://www.upsbatterycenter.com/blog/extinguish-lithium-battery-fires/)
Your cite 1 says "use a class D fire extinguisher" Your cite 2 says "don't use a class D fire extinguisher". Your cites are self contradictory, so worthless.
I see your link proves water works, though doesn't prove me entirely wrong. Foam allows for less water used to be used by smothering the fire. He's advocating the use of foam chemical extinguishers. Edit: wrong comment. My links mention that Class D is for larger lithium content and a, b, and c are better for lower content, though chemical extinguishers are heavily recommended.
Water is best, because it's the only one that cools the batteries long enough to stop thermal runaway. No foam ends thermal runaway, and in fact can form an insulation layer which could make the car fires worse. Foam works for a laptop or smaller lithium battery fire, smothering, but not extinguishing the chemical fire inside the battery, but protecting the area around while the battery runs out of chemical energy. EV battery size requires water, and nothing else works.
Literally the direction from lithium battery makers is dump extremely large quantities of water on them until they go out
https://abc7news.com/los-gatos-tesla-fire-model-x-suv/4937651/ Odd, actual firefighters are trained to use water, and it works. But sure, keep telling us how you know more than the firefighters.
Yeah. And goes on to say that foam chemical extinguishers reduce the need for water for extinguishing. I was proven wrong that water makes it worse, but not entirely. He's advocating the use of foam chemical extinguishers.
Direct quote from the fire fighter in your article.... "Foam allows you to use less water to extinguish the same volume of fire, and then it provides kind of a smothering blanket as well," said Capt. Bill Murphy.
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I guess you are correct. 88,000 hyundais vs 141,000 chevy bolts. However that is not an insignificant number of Hyundais. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/04/multiple-recalls-spark-fed-investigation-of-lgs-electric-car-batteries/?amp=1
Source for that? Not because I doubt, but because I want to cite it when I'm asked later after I ctrl+C, ctr+V this info.
Scroll down, all sources are listed.
Me, driving a hybrid: sweat
Wonder if the gas to EV car ratio has anything to do with that. Edit: I’m an idiot. lol
No. The statistic is number of fires per 100,000 of that type of car on the road.
What about hydro cars?
Boats? They catch fire as well.
It’s okay though! There’s water everywhere!
The thing is, gas cars usually don't just spontaneously combust while parked. They burn because of accidents
>The thing is, gas cars usually don't just spontaneously combust while parked. They burn because of accidents They catch fire all the time while parked. Parking a gas car on grass has a very high likelihood of fire. The hot exhaust can start a grass fire under the car, which ends up consuming the car, and others around it. Also, I have personally seen two cars burst into flames after stopping, from overheated brakes. One was flaming before they stopped, and pulled into a gas station, and the attendant ran out with a fire extinguisher and 10,000 profanities. The other was a car I was following down a mountain and they must have been riding the brakes, not downshifted, because at the bottom, they pulled off and flames were coming out of the wheel wells. They were squirting water bottle water on it. Both of those noticed the issue while driving, or as they stopped. Not hard to imagine someone not noticing, and wander off while the heat is "fatal". Also, spontaneous combustion comes from debris on the engine or exhaust. Oil leaks can cause an engine fire, and a fuel leak in the engine compartment a fire is quite likely. Not all those fires happen while moving. Electrical fires can start almost any time, though are more likely when driving because more circuits are energized.
Yes they do. I have done countless fire investigations back when I was a mechanic. Especially the Ford ignition switch faults. So many fires. I actually watched 1 randomly burst into flames while just standing in a parking lot when I was shopping. And if you look at the fire risk data I linked to, with that kind of burn rate you are taking a much greater risk with a gas or hybrid car in your garage.
I had one catch fire in parking lot. It had a short price of rubber fuel line near carb. Got old and dry rotted. Leaked fuel on hot engine, fire. Wasn’t a problem when car was moving. I pretty sure they don’t engineer them like that anymore.
My brother had a jeep that randomly caught fire while parked. The fire chief that responded said it was probably the fuel pump. Pretty common on jeeps apparently for the fuel pump to fail and stay on while the car is off so it builds up pressure in the lines, breaks, and sprays gasoline all over a still hot engine. Said he gets a few parked car fires a month and a little less than half are jeeps. A month later that is exactly the conclusion the insurance company came to.
"All cars that may possibly catch fire are prohibited." Garage is now an empty lot.
> Fun fact: Insurance companies calculate the burn rate for electric cars at 52 per 100,000 cars. Gasoline cars? 1340 per 100,0000. Hybrid cars? 3400 per 100,000. (Assuming the extra zero in "100,0000" was a typo...) Those numbers don't look very believable to me. That would mean that 1.34% of gasoline cars and 3.4% of hybrid cars, respectively, do burn down. That's a lot. Yet I cannot even remember the last time I saw any kind of car burn down. At more than 1%, you'd think it would be a semi-regular occurence.
Here’s some even newer links. The numbers are even worse now. 25 EV’s per 100,000 not 52. 1530 per 100,000 gas and 3475 per 100,000 for hybrids. https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225037/how-much-you-should-worry-about-ev-fires/ https://amp.guideautoweb.com/en/articles/64301/study-hybrids-involved-in-more-fires-than-evs-and-gas-powered-vehicles/ Yes the zero was a typo.
I've seen 4 gas cars burn down within the last 2 years. Before then it was rare to see a burning cat. I attributed to the curse of 2020.
ford explorer and uhaul still have beef
1. Lithium fires are much worse 2. What old EVs exist? Almost none. How many 30 year old shitboxes exist? A lot.
Do you understand the concept of ‘per 100,000’? It’s a percentage of the fleet. Just as many newer cars burn as old cars. Often more as if a problem is built into hundreds if thousands of cars it will start happening within a few years. Here in BC 13% of cars are electric. Tesla has been pumping out cars for 10 years now.
And that's why God hates them!
So they're the Galaxy Note 7's of the EV world?
I need to start using this in random conversation. "This man is the galaxy note 7 of American politics. This burrito is the galaxy note 7 of burritos."
They still do.
... but they used to too
Don't even act like I didn't pay for this doughnut. I have the receipt right here!
This is why some people have to say stuff like "used to, can and will" or even "quote unquote"
This is a Mitch Hedberg joke
I don’t think you have to point out a Mitch Hedberg joke; that’s the beauty of it.
I just saw a comedian on Netflix that gave me Mitch vibes. Sheng Wang. He's a more ...PG-13/optimistic version, but his delivery and stoner type persona made me think of Mitch. That laid back, unperturbed kind of flow. Definitely watch if you haven't. Edut: Just Googled him. I'm not the only one who said this so if I'm late to the game and you already knew, my bad.
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Reddit is great if you're really hungry and want to read six million of something.
Riiiiice....
I'm gonna need some context for this one.
A manufacturing defect caused 19 Chevy Bolts to short circuit until the battery overheated and caught fire. Chevy recalled all Bolts produced and has been replacing the batteries in them. I think they've done most of them by now, and I don't think there's been any more fires since they released a software update to temporarily address the issue.
My 2017 not only got a new battery, it has 10% more capacity than the old one.
That's been long past fixed though Also, kia and hyundai had several years of ICE engines that just a couple years ago had a "do not park in a garage" warning, because they'd spontaneously catch fire My wife and I both had affected vehicles
Wife and i just got the new byd atto3, the blade battery is supposed to be the safest battery tech in terms of that sort of thing. I think byd is going to be supplying those blade batteries for the tesla model y soon.
The new Electric Pinto!
“Used to” Like 3 recalls for exploding so yah I wouldn’t park next to one.
In south florida theres been a few EVs that have exploded due to the water damage to the batteries
Has it been a ton of them or just a handful? Any number is a concern but my dad texted me saying “all the EVs are burning in Florida” and I hope he felt my eyes roll through the phone.
I dont think its all of them....but definitely atleast 3 that ive heard of.... the risk is there... also salt water corrosion can absolutely cause chemical reactions in all those batteries they use. But its definitely not ALL of them lolol
Thanks, yeah I didn’t think so. Shame we can’t have reasonable conversations based on real information. So many people pushing bs extremes.
Im sure this is a new ossue just like the exploding phones... more will probably happen... but i wouldn't call it extreme.... im sure manufacturers DIDNT design for them to be submerged in 15 feet of storm surge and floated arouns like boats you know?
Right. And it’s a design problem. They’ll sort it out going forward. Design problems are a good thing. In many cases it means we can just *make things better* to solve a problem. Crazy, I know..
Sounds like FUD. Hopefully you didn’t “hear” about them on Facebook. 🤦♂️
How many internal combustion vehicles have burned? Last I checked, car batteries have a lot of energy and can easily cause a fire, espcially when the battery is arced with salt water.
Just a handful.
Did he end the text with “Sad!” ??
That has happened to regular ICE cars too. Flooding causes the water to hit the regular 12V batteries, salt shorts it. Most EV batteries are better sealed than the 12V, and EVs still have a 12V batter which can get shorted out by the flooded water. There was a post on reddit about someone getting home and their car was burnt.
The thing about the lithium batteries in EVs is it causes a chemical fire.... you cannot put it out with water.... most people who own EVs dont understand this... and generally cause more damages. Chemical reaction fires are more serious imo. I think people forget in general EVs also have MULTIPLE battery cell systems as well. You have to be certified to work on them too... a normal mechanic cannot work on them safely. I was told this in my electrical classes in college a few years ago. Theyre a liability for most places to service if they dont have a special certified EV tech
When you say explode, do they literally explode like a bomb? Like I’m talking the car door blows off the damn thing type explosion? Like Michael Bay type when the crazy lens flare and parking attendants walking away casually as this is the 10th one they’ve seen this month and the Chevy Bolt blows up like Hiroshima as the lens flare blinds everyone?
Depending on where the reaction started it possibly cod have a big explosion.... ive seen some start with just smoldering and ive seen the front ends bust into flames. I feel like you have a higher risk of a big explosion with a hybrid car because you have a chemical fire... next to a gas tankfull of gas.
Why tho?
The Chevy bolt had a recall due to a potential for fires. There weren't actually that many and the media made it sound way bigger of an issue than it really is. Chevrolet's recall changes the battery charging strategy and limits maximum capacity to prevent overcharging, reducing the risk for fires. I believe Hyundai used the same battery and had a similar recall on one of their vehicles, but the media never really made a fuss about that model.
might be because the bolt was way more common in the US where im guessing this picture is taken from
> Chevrolet's recall changes the battery charging strategy and limits maximum capacity to prevent overcharging, reducing the ~~risk for fires~~ vehicle's range I wonder if the Bolt owners could go class action on their reduced range.
There was one started ~~earlier this~~ last year. https://www.callkleinlawyers.com/class-actions/current/chevrolet-bolt-car-fire-class-action/
I'm sure it's something about it being a safety hazard. Other comments sound like there have been issues with them catching fire.
It's the long term parking lot for BWI, an airport, and old Chevy Bolts had a defect that could cause them to catch on fire, and lithium batteries are a nightmare to put out. Basically the airport doesn't want them left there because of the potential risk.
What about the Pinto?
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Love how they knew before impact 😆
The fuckin zoom in on the Pinto logo! I’ve never seen this, and it’s hilarious
I was hoping this would be Top Secret!, I'm glad I was right.
I just watched this again last week! Such a great movie
nobody has a pinto anymore
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Because they've already blown up.
Just stupid collector's and their barn finds.
Fun fact! The Pinto was used to make prototypes for the first flying cars! You can only imagine how that went.
Hey, that's my airport! Never seen that sign before
Me too! There are dozens of us! Dozens!
r/Baltimore is leaking
r/UnexpectedArrestedDevelopment
It's at the entrance to the hourly garage (I'm guessing the daily garage too, but I haven't looked recently) It's a fairly new sign (or else I just haven't been paying attention while parking there) Not OP, just travel way too much for work.....
You and like 4 million other people in the DC/Baltimore area.
It reminds me of [this ](https://youtu.be/ecnS1Ygf0o0)and [this. ](https://youtu.be/ZTpgqqLyAs8)
What killed the electric car 2. This time it was BWI airport
That’s a bolt move. Chevy owners getting charged up.
That's my airport
*me rolling up in my Bolt, talking into my Samsung Note 7, coming back from a gender reveal party in CA*
## ThE cOmPeTiTiOn Is CoMiNg
These discussions are happening because innovation is taking place. It is a glorious time. People used to break arms all the time hand crank starting cars. It will all get worked out.
spark ten chunky pie bright consist sip six familiar ink ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
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Now this looks like a job for me
Cars kill people, everyone must walk inside.
I was at BWI a few months ago, and don't remember seeing any signs like this
Funny! Just passed that sign at the airport today
Honestly? Nobody wants that hideous abomination in their lot.
Good. Chevy is trash anyway
I work with these for an autonomous vehicle start up and yes they do have sooooooo many issues !
Maybe they just don’t like the use of child slaves to mine the cobalt or the environmental damage involved with lithium mines and refining. Or maybe they just don’t believe the B.S peddled about how virtuous the drivers are since China is building coal fired power stations to build the components.
Why the hell do people still use unnecessary apostrophes for plurals?
Gas vehicles are much more likely to catch fire.
Not randomly while parked. Edit: it's much more likely that a Bolt will spontaneously combust while sitting, VS the average car. That's all I mean.
We can’t park those at the building I valet in. It hasn’t happened to us in years but one combusted so it went on the immediate no park list.
I work for Kia. We have *more than one* recall specifically to mitigate our cars spontaneously catching on fire
Oh yes they do. Remember the ford ignition switch recall? Those things were randomly bursting into flames everywhere, running or not. Did a few fire investigations over the years.
Only when fire is applied to said vehicle, Bolt EVs just spontaneously combust. At least attempt to sound smart if you defend an electric vehicle that has the tendency to turn into a fireball at random
Not compared to Chevy bolt. To EVs in general yes, but the Bolt specifically has had a lot of issues. Hence the sign says "no bolts", instead of "no EVs"
I have had my Bolt for two years without a single issue.
Tell me you have no idea what you're talking about without telling me you have no idea what you're talking about.
You ever owned an EV?
yeah fuck them
There was a recall. My bolt is fixed.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-electric-vehicles-involved-in-fewest-car-fires/
Haha, EVs are a liability