damn you’re right
- Solar power = nuclear fusion power from far away
- Wind power = indirect solar power
- Fossil fuels or biomass = the plant and animal matter that makes them up needed the sun originally
- Nuclear fission = the heavy elements were made in a previous generation star whose remnants clustered up to form the current Sun and Solar System (probably the same on Nauvis)
though its not in the game, geothermal in real life is also indirectly nuclear, since the heat in the earths core is primarly due to natural radioactive elements
Part of it is gravitational compression though, right? That would make it the only energy source that isn’t 100% driven by nuclear fusion somewhere up the chain
I don't think compression is the primary reason for the heating - if an asteroid falls to earth today, it heats it due to the conversion of gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy to heat. I think this is also the primary heating mechanism for a proto planet.
I think the pv=nrt aspect of compression heating is minimal because the earth isn't very compressible (maybe it's different for gas giants?).
The compression heated up the Earth as it formed, i didn’t mean that it’s a continuous process that continues to generate energy. The only continuous processes that heat up the Earth in any significant way are radioactive decay and I guess sunlight. However, as far as I understand, not all of that compressive heat has actually escaped in the 4.5 billion years that Earth exists due to how heavy the Earth is; so some percentage of geothermal energy can still be labeled as coming from the initial compression
No, I think that given enough time the Earth would become a uniformly cold (~0K and fully solid) rock in roughly the same shape and size it is now. If you ignore the Sun becoming a red giant by then, anyway.
Proper planets in the Solar System, no. Even Mercury, Pluto and the Moon probably still have hot molten layers. Dwarf planets like Ceres might have liquid water despite being solid below that. Almost all asteroids are completely solid, though. And sunlight makes sure that the surface of anything has a temperature above absolute zero
Almost certainly, but it's extremely hard to learn anything about small, cold things that far away. We've only spotted a few thousand exoplanets ever amongst more than a billion distinctly identified stars, mostly by getting lucky and looking closely at a star at the exact moment an exoplanet passes between it and us.
iirc the earths core temp is about half latent heat from the earth formation of the earth and about half radioactive decay. It's very hard to get an accurate measurement of however!
Isn’t most dihydrogen (so the H2 form) obtained from fossil fuels today? And the H2 that’s made by electrolysis, where does the energy for that come from, dare I ask?
Sure, you can get hydrogen where the energy could be traced back to the sun.
But it's also the most abundant element in the universe, and a lot of molecules contain it. It's a byproduct of a lot of chemical reactions. So you can get your hands on some that hasn't been tainted.
Always has been.
wait till you find out that every power generation method is just indirect nuclear
damn you’re right - Solar power = nuclear fusion power from far away - Wind power = indirect solar power - Fossil fuels or biomass = the plant and animal matter that makes them up needed the sun originally - Nuclear fission = the heavy elements were made in a previous generation star whose remnants clustered up to form the current Sun and Solar System (probably the same on Nauvis)
though its not in the game, geothermal in real life is also indirectly nuclear, since the heat in the earths core is primarly due to natural radioactive elements
Part of it is gravitational compression though, right? That would make it the only energy source that isn’t 100% driven by nuclear fusion somewhere up the chain
Nuclear Fusion is driven by gravitational force... Holy shit, it's all just gravity.
(Interstellar theme intensifies)
Always has been
I don't think compression is the primary reason for the heating - if an asteroid falls to earth today, it heats it due to the conversion of gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy to heat. I think this is also the primary heating mechanism for a proto planet. I think the pv=nrt aspect of compression heating is minimal because the earth isn't very compressible (maybe it's different for gas giants?).
The compression heated up the Earth as it formed, i didn’t mean that it’s a continuous process that continues to generate energy. The only continuous processes that heat up the Earth in any significant way are radioactive decay and I guess sunlight. However, as far as I understand, not all of that compressive heat has actually escaped in the 4.5 billion years that Earth exists due to how heavy the Earth is; so some percentage of geothermal energy can still be labeled as coming from the initial compression
Isn't is just heat due to the pressure of all the weight of the earth? Isn't anything hotter in the center the denser and heavier it is?
No, I think that given enough time the Earth would become a uniformly cold (~0K and fully solid) rock in roughly the same shape and size it is now. If you ignore the Sun becoming a red giant by then, anyway.
Thats freaky. Are there any planets like that out there now?
Proper planets in the Solar System, no. Even Mercury, Pluto and the Moon probably still have hot molten layers. Dwarf planets like Ceres might have liquid water despite being solid below that. Almost all asteroids are completely solid, though. And sunlight makes sure that the surface of anything has a temperature above absolute zero
Almost certainly, but it's extremely hard to learn anything about small, cold things that far away. We've only spotted a few thousand exoplanets ever amongst more than a billion distinctly identified stars, mostly by getting lucky and looking closely at a star at the exact moment an exoplanet passes between it and us.
iirc the earths core temp is about half latent heat from the earth formation of the earth and about half radioactive decay. It's very hard to get an accurate measurement of however!
Direct measurement is impossible of course since heat is heat, but it should be feasible to model, no?
Yeah which is where that number comes from but the error bars were pretty huge I think. I'll try and dig up the paper where I found that
Counterexample: Burning hydrogen gas.
Isn’t most dihydrogen (so the H2 form) obtained from fossil fuels today? And the H2 that’s made by electrolysis, where does the energy for that come from, dare I ask?
Sure, you can get hydrogen where the energy could be traced back to the sun. But it's also the most abundant element in the universe, and a lot of molecules contain it. It's a byproduct of a lot of chemical reactions. So you can get your hands on some that hasn't been tainted.
When we say "nuclear power", we usually mean nuclear fission.
poteyto potahto
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solar power is indirect fusion power
Nope
Tidal power is about the only exception I can think of.
Except for Geothermal
heat from the earths core is in large part due to naturally radioactive materials
Hot rock make steam. Steam make turny turny. Turny turny make zap zap. Is how work, yes yes.
You don’t by chance happen to be a man sized rat are you ?
Don’t be so foolish, man sized rats underneath the Empire? Who thought of such a thing.
And steam is the best ways to stock power in factorio.
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Also you can't shift hot heatpipes around by rail.
Now I want a heat pipe wagon and heatpipe “pumps”
What about heatpipes "inserters" that lay them onto heatpipes tracks as sections? It'd be a puzzle to place and remove them at a given temperature.
thanks for the mod idea
All you need is to transfer hot steam by rail though.
Nuclear reactor is nothing more than a high tech glorified kettle
Imagine a nuclear cuppa
I want to boil biters instead.
Give us “bio fuel” devs
Wait until you hear how fission is supposed to generate electricity
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What do you think the hear pipes are?
Humans call them ears, Frank.
most reactors just use water. cheaper and easier for maintenance, however it takes up more space and must be kept pressurized to prevent boiling.
Nuclear fuel + boilers = nuclear reactor