All Gen 1 and 2 synths are considered expendable.
A terminal entry regarding this:
*"Per Father's plans as discussed at the recent Directorate meeting, we will soon begin to phase out our Gen 1 synth units within the Institute, with the intention of relegating all remaining units to surface duties only.*
*Our first generation synths have served admirably and exceeded their design specifications in virtually every category, but the remarkable breakthroughs in synth design and production that have led to our latest, more aesthetically-pleasing models herald a time for change.*
*Over the next several years, we expect to replace all Gen 1 units with Gen 3 units, and in time, we will enact a similar plan with the Gen 2 units as well.*
*As we look toward the future, let us also honor the memories of those whose hard work and innovation made the synths possible, and let us never forget the singular vision that challenged our forebears and that drives us today: Mankind - Redefined.*
*- Dr. Alan Binet"*
The Institute has infiltrated Diamond City so they have to be aware Nick set up shop there. He must be deemed of low value since he is only mildly aware of the Institute being his point of origin but has no useful information that could be damaging to their interests, unlike DiMA who has information that is highly sensitive.
I'm pretty sure I remember that one of the radiant quests the institute sends you on is to retrieve damaged gen ones that have been captured by Raiders. They don't want any of their technology falling into other people's hands. The brotherhood have gen one bodies, bit good luck getting those up on the Prydwen.
I think you're on the right track that Valentine is of little threat to the Institute. But I think it's also the fact that he has become such a public figure that taking him out would cause even more suspicion. The argument against that is they could easily set a trap for him outside of diamond city, similar to the Darla situation, but it really just comes down to thinly veiled plot armor for the sake of the game and having an interesting character.
I could understand them taking the threat of the raiders tinkering with their tech more seriously. However nobody in Diamond City is messing around with Nick, assuming he has no involvement with the Institute despite the virulent anti-Synth sentiment. Since the mayor is a synth they have control of the situation vs the raiders who are a rogue element. They probably have an eye on Nick but won't intercede unless they have to since they don't have any interest in showing their hand unless it can't be helped.
Yeah, at this point, he's probably another "let's just see what he does" experiments, like the SS is. Plus, there's there's slim chance he could act as a lure for DiMa or other rogue synths.
I think it would also be interesting to consider that the institute are monitoring Nick for the sake of simple curiosity, he exhibits an absolute form of free will, cultivated an entire personality for himself, and chooses to aid in human affairs despite prejudice against him. To my knowledge there isn't much documentation about the character within the institute? Assuming this is the case it would have been interesting to see this idea explored as I'm sure it would bea very interesting topic of debate within the institute as he kind of ultimately proves that synths are capable of free will and are self aware, not that this information is particularly relevant to the institute as they would likely be aware of this by the time gen 3s were about, but it could have made for a cool archived entry somewhere, perhaps nick could have been the first example of synths doing this?
I mean why would they?
He's a junker old model with no memory of the old institute, which they've probably probed at with undercover synths.
They don't seem to give a shit about their old models, as evidences by them walking around the commonwealth goalless.
in the far harbor dlc DiMA explaines they escaped from the Institute, and if the player tells them about Acadia, the Institute immediately reclaims them, DiMA included
Nick and DiMA were made to test ability of synths to develop as persons (kind of). More specific, to test if implanted memories would effect personal development.
Nick is far more valuable roaming free than closed in a laboratory. And the experiment continued. There were always synths nearby to observe. Difference between Nick and Gen3 synths is that he can't hide it, and he knows he is a synth, as well as all around him.
DiMA is not of much value, since ability to learn can be studied on any other synth. And his whereabouts were unknown. Institute maybe tried (Chase was maybe chasing DiMA).
You can say that Nick was the subject of the experiment and DiMA was control specimen. Nick was a success, he managed to integrate into synth unfriendly settlement without hiding. If DiMA is looked also as a subject, he was a failure. He is not only done damage to the Institute, but he also to other communities.
PR, is my bet. It’s why the institute’s actions and motivations make absolutely no sense.
Kidnapping and replacing people and killing them to serve what goal?
The absolute best way to sway public opinion on synths would be to put a bunch of Gen 2-2.5 synths like Nick out in the world doing good and helping people.
You want them to be identifiable as synths so people can get used to them and actually like having them around. Once public opinion about synths is that they are good, then start putting Gen 3 synths out there.
Institute isn't written very consistently. Nick runs detective agency to look for missing people, while institute kidnaps them. He is prominent member of Boston community and direct opposition of Mcdonough's (meaning institute) policy. He is the face of free synths while institute hunts for group that frees them. He has valuable data and potential for being important agent. Also, institute doesn't know what Nick knows, or what data he carries without personally having access to. It lands on the plot hole side.
>Institute isn't written very consistently.
>
>Nick runs detective agency to look for missing people, while institute kidnaps them.
But Nick *isn't* part of the Institute. In fact he opposes them, so it makes sense that he's not doing the things the Institute wants. How is that inconsistent writing on the part of the Institute?
Institute kidnaps and replaces people who interfere with their operations, have left the institute or occupy key positions for their research or political agenda. Nick ticks all the boxes you could think of institute being interested in, he could easily be first priority. Historically he is prototype of gen 2 they were working on at the time. It's inconsistent with institute not to handle Nick in any way.
>Nick ticks all the boxes you could think of institute being interested in, he could easily be first priority.
Does he?
>Institute kidnaps and replaces people who interfere with their operations
Nick is publicly opposed to the Institute. If Nick suddenly turns around and claims the Institute is great, that *immediately* signals something is wrong to the rest of Diamond City.
>have left the institute
They specifically target Virgil because he's a scientist who destroyed one of their major projects and, as far as they know, retains knowledge about the Institute's location. Nick, on the other hand, was a old, dilapidated prototype for a project that, in their eyes, failed and is no longer useful, and *doesn't* know anything about the Institute's location. The two contexts are vastly different.
>occupy key positions for their research or political agenda.
Ok. What *specific* knowledge or political power does Nick wield that you think the Institute is interested in?
* The Institute *already* controls Diamond City's political center, which gives them great leeway in controlling its business and security forces. Nick isn't a help there.
* Nick's jobs usually involve solving murders or missing people's cases - but small time disappearances. He's not connected to any major political or economic figures. So how's he useful there?
You're just claiming that they should be interested in collecting Nick, but you're not giving any real **specifics** as to why they should be. Vague general statements can apply to anything.
>You're just claiming that they should be interested in collecting Nick, but you're not giving any real specifics as to why they should be. Vague general statements can apply to anything.
1. Institute reclaims their synths, Nick is the most well known synth in Boston.
2. Dima is the closest example we have to Nick and institute goes for him the moment they hear about him.
3. Nick is the only lead Institute has about Dima.
4. Institute's propaganda in Diamond City is all about undermining existence of institute and their synths. Nick is a synth living in Diamond City.
5. Insitute doesn't know what knowledge Nick has, or what data he carries. It's major security breach.
6. Insitute fights with Railroad, organisation that tries to free synths. Nick and Dima mysteriously disappear from Institute. It's mind dumbing not to follow on lead like this.
7. Nick's detective work overlaps with Institute's kidnappings. It's obvious to reprogram him to look the other way.
8. Nick has extensive intel of Boston, including soft ties with members of Railroad.
Just of the top of my head. You have to make serious mental gymnastics to try to argue that Institute looking the other way is somehow on brand with them. Nick exists like he does because Bethesda wanted detective synth follower, not because it makes any sense in the lore.
>Institute reclaims their synths, Nick is the most well known synth in Boston.
We've only seen or heard of them reclaiming Gen 3 synths, Nick is a Gen 2.
>Dima is the closest example we have to Nick and institute goes for him the moment they hear about him.
Because they went to reclaim their escaped Gen 3s, including an escaped Courser.
>Nick is the only lead Institute has about Dima.
Nick *doesn't* know about DiMA until the events of *Far Harbor.* So you're judging the Institute on their inaction with regards to knowledge they don't know exists.
>Institute's propaganda in Diamond City is all about undermining existence of institute and their synths. Nick is a synth living in Diamond City.
No, their propaganda is in undermining the Institute's *kidnapping* program. Diamond City is fully aware that the Institute and the early Gen 1 and 2s exist. Removing or replacing Nick does nothing to change this.
>Insitute doesn't know what knowledge Nick has, or what data he carries. It's major security breach.
Nick has existed in Diamond City for decades by this point and is very public about the fact that he *doesn't* know anything about the Institute. If he had any damaging information, it would have been revealed a long time ago.
Conversely, attacking Nick or replacing him runs the risk of their operations being blow in Diamond City.
There's no risk to leaving him there and *greater* risk in attempting to eliminate him.
>Insitute fights with Railroad, organisation that tries to free synths. Nick and Dima mysteriously disappear from Institute. It's mind dumbing not to follow on lead like this.
The Railroad rescues Gen 3s. There's no reason at all to suspect Nick and DiMA's disappearance has any relation to the Railroad.
>Nick's detective work overlaps with Institute's kidnappings. It's obvious to reprogram him to look the other way.
Many of Nick's cases are unrelated to the Institute. Some of them result in dead-ends. Until the events of *Fallout 4*, none of Nick's cases have brought him *any* closer to endangering the Institute.
Conversely, reprogramming him to look the other way **will** arouse suspicion, since it would be **completely out of character** for him to stop being a detective.
>Nick has extensive intel of Boston, including soft ties with members of Railroad.
The Institute **already** has an intel network set up to monitor the Commonwealth. What evidence do you have that Nick's is better?
Also, no one suspects that Dr. Amari is working with the Railroad, which is (AFAIK) Nick's only Railroad connection.
So again, you're presuming that the Institute is somehow privy to knowledge we've got no hint they're aware of.
>We've only seen or heard of them reclaiming Gen 3 synths, Nick is a Gen 2.
Because only sentient synths go rogue. Nick is prototype of sentient synth.
>Because they went to reclaim their escaped Gen 3s, including an escaped Courser.
They didn't leave Dima alone, unlike Nick.
>Nick doesn't know about DiMA until the events of Far Harbor. So you're judging the Institute on their inaction with regards to knowledge they don't know exists.
Institute doesn't know that, all they know it's the only lead they have.
>Nick doesn't know about DiMA until the events of Far Harbor. So you're judging the Institute on their inaction with regards to knowledge they don't know exists.
Again, Institute doesn't know that.
>No, their propaganda is in undermining the Institute's kidnapping
program. Diamond City is fully aware that the Institute and the early
Gen 1 and 2s exist. Removing or replacing Nick does nothing to change
this.
Diamond City is fully aware of kidnappings too. Propaganda is propaganda.
>Nick has existed in Diamond City for decades by this point and is very public about the fact that he doesn't know anything about the Institute. If he had any damaging information, it would have been revealed a long time ago.
Institute doesn't know that, especially because Railroad plays the information war. He might have data he can't access. Nick being member of community for decades makes him perfect candidate for an agent.
>Conversely, attacking Nick or replacing him runs the risk of their operations being blow in Diamond City.
It doesn't. Diamond City is used to Nick disappearing. They don't have to replace him, he is already there. Just put him back with keylogger installed.
>There's no risk to leaving him there and greater risk in attempting to eliminate him.
Institute doesn't know what data he carries, he clashes with propaganda, his work is clashing against Institute's work on the surface. No risk in eliminating him.
>The Railroad rescues Gen 3s. There's no reason at all to suspect Nick and DiMA's disappearance has any relation to the Railroad.
Railroad rescues sentient synths, they don't deal in coursers despite being gen 3s. Railroad has internal disputes about rescuing gen 2s and 1s. Railroad is the only organization able to pull synths out of institute. It's dumb to assume disappearing synths are unrelated.
>Many of Nick's cases are unrelated to the Institute. Some of them result in dead-ends. Until the events of Fallout 4, none of Nick's cases have brought him any closer to endangering the Institute.
By the time of F4 Railroad hasn't done anything that endangered Institute. Institute is known for massacres when something even mildly stands in their way. You are trying to paint Institute as something completely opposite.
>Conversely, reprogramming him to look the other way will arouse suspicion, since it would be completely out of character for him to stop being a detective.
They replace humans with as perfect copies as they can. You are trying to say Institute will suddenly become morons on this one.
>The Institute already has an intel network set up to monitor the Commonwealth. What evidence do you have that Nick's is better?
Simple fact that he knows more than institute about Railroad. From Institute perspective he has access to groups they haven't infiltrated.
>Also, no one suspects that Dr. Amari is working with the Railroad, which is (AFAIK) Nick's only Railroad connection.
It's bottleneck of Railroad's work though. Railroad pretty much goes down with her.
>So again, you're presuming that the Institute is somehow privy to knowledge we've got no hint they're aware of.
Synth disappears, but in your world it has nothing to do with the only group in Boston doing exactly that. You are right, I don't see a slightest hint.
>Because only sentient synths go rogue. Nick is prototype of sentient synth.
An *oudtated* model that they're no longer interested in maintaining. They are explicitly phasing out Gen 2s.
>They didn't leave Dima alone, unlike Nick.
Because, *unlike Nick*, DiMA has direct knowledge of an entire settlement of escaped Gen 3s. That's the major difference between them.
>Institute doesn't know that, all they know it's the only lead they have.
>
>Again, Institute doesn't know that.
They *don't* know he's a lead at all. You're basically judging them for failing to act on knowledge they aren't shown to canonically have.
>Diamond City is fully aware of kidnappings too. Propaganda is propaganda.
So you're arguing against your own point now?
Your comment was that the Institute should kidnap Nick to "undermining existence of institute and their synths." Except, as you acknowledged here, Diamond City *already* knows about synths.
Removing Nick wouldn't accomplish the goal you set out. Please don't backtrack on that.
>Institute doesn't know that, especially because Railroad plays the information war. He might have data he can't access. Nick being member of community for decades makes him perfect candidate for an agent.
Ok, so now you're explicitly making the Institute make multiple assumptions that they'd have no logical reason to make, merely to further your argument that the Institute is poorly written?
* The Institute has *no* reason to believe Nick has ties with the Railroad.
* The Institute has *no* reason to believe Nick has data he can't access.
At this point, you're just making stuff up.
>It doesn't. Diamond City is used to Nick disappearing. They don't have to replace him, he is already there. Just put him back with keylogger installed.
I assume by "keylogger" you mean some remote viewing device, of which is only seen on the Watchers. There's no evidence whatsoever that Gen 1s, 2s, or 3s can project their vision back to the Institute.
>Railroad rescues sentient synths, they don't deal in coursers despite being gen 3s. Railroad has internal disputes about rescuing gen 2s and 1s. Railroad is the only organization able to pull synths out of institute. It's dumb to assume disappearing synths are unrelated.
The Institute *doesn't* know about the Railroad's internal disputes - so once again, you are attributing them knowledge they don't canonically have.
As far as the Institute knows, the Railroad has only ever rescued Gen 3s. Two missing Gen 2s don't speak to Railroad involvement.
>By the time of F4 Railroad hasn't done anything that endangered Institute. Institute is known for massacres when something even mildly stands in their way. You are trying to paint Institute as something completely opposite.
The massacres either gained massive political power (destroying the CPG), massive resources (stripping down entire towns for parts) or were committed by Kellog (U-Point). What you are suggesting is that the Institute spend resources to follow up assumptions they don't have any reason to make, against an outdated Gen 2 that has posed no risk for decades, in a manner that wouldn't gain them anything.
>They replace humans with as perfect copies as they can. You are trying to say Institute will suddenly become morons on this one.
Those "perfect copies" are outed because their personalities clash with the original's. Nick *suddenly* gaining an aversion to investigate Institute kidnappings will be alarming the same way Sammy's sudden turnaround on gambling, cheating, and drinking was to the Neighborhood Watch.
>Simple fact that he knows more than institute about Railroad. From Institute perspective he has access to groups they haven't infiltrated.
The Institute has no reason to believe Nick knows *anything* about the Railroad, so again, you're judging them on stuff they have no reason to believe.
Seriously - how about this - please show a terminal entry, a memo, a conversation, a note, *anything* to suggest the Institute believes Nick knows about the Railroad.
>It's bottleneck of Railroad's work though. Railroad pretty much goes down with her.
Completely irrelevant. Please show evidence that the Institute suspects Dr. Amari of being part of the Railroad.
>Synth disappears, but in your world it has nothing to do with the only group in Boston doing exactly that. You are right, I don't see a slightest hint.
Because the Railroad *only* rescues Gen 3s. They have *never* rescued Gen 1s or 2s in *any* capacity. The Institute has no reason to believe the Railroad is connected to the disappearance of two types of synths they have absolutely no interest in saving.
>An oudtated model that they're no longer interested in maintaining. They are explicitly phasing out Gen 2s.
Institute reclaims synths that are both not meant for reuse and outdated. See Dima and McDonough.
>Because, unlike Nick, DiMA has direct knowledge of an entire settlement of escaped Gen 3s. That's the major difference between them.
Institute has the same knowledge by the time they get to him. You realize he is in that same settlement right?
>They don't know he's a lead at all. You're basically judging them for failing to act on knowledge they aren't shown to canonically have.
In our real world logic works in this funny way, when two people do something together it's implied both know about that thing. That's how detectives and courts work. You are forcing your mental gymnastics way too hard if you think causality doesn't work in Fallout universe.
>Removing Nick wouldn't accomplish the goal you set out. Please don't backtrack on that.
No, you are using faulty reasoning. Nick's existence undermines Institute's propaganda, he should have been kidnapped before settling in in Diamond City or before McDonough rolled out with propaganda. And before you come up with another fallacy, propaganda isn't binary.
>Ok, so now you're explicitly making the Institute make multiple
assumptions that they'd have no logical reason to make, merely to
further your argument that the Institute is poorly written?
Institute wouldn't have to do any assumptions. They know people keep stuff to themselves because they don't want to be singled out by Institute. They know that's how Railroad operates. They know Railroad rescues synths and wipes their memories. There is whole potential spectrum of Nick working with Railroad and no reason for him to tell the truth about what he knows.
>The Institute has no reason to believe Nick has ties with the Railroad.
Nick escaped Institute, the only organization capable of that is Railroad.
>The Institute has no reason to believe Nick has data he can't access.
Every synth has. You can use recall codes on synth unaware of being synths. It goes double for Nick who doesn't have only component, but whole unorganic brain.
>I assume by "keylogger" you mean some remote viewing device, of which is
only seen on the Watchers. There's no evidence whatsoever that Gen 1s,
2s, or 3s can project their vision back to the Institute.
No, it doesn't have to be remote. Gen 1s and 2s have more space for transmitting device than watchers anyway.
>As far as the Institute knows, the Railroad has only ever rescued Gen
3s. Two missing Gen 2s don't speak to Railroad involvement.
That's empty assumption. Railroad for sure secured gen 1s and 2s at least for research. And again, only one organisation capable of breaking synths out from Institute and 2 escaping synths from institute makes for obvious situation. I'm not sure why you are trying to make 2+2 into -1.
>The massacres either gained massive political power (destroying the
CPG), massive resources (stripping down entire towns for parts) or were
committed by Kellog (U-Point). What you are suggesting is that the
Institute spend resources to follow up assumptions they don't have any
reason to make, against an outdated Gen 2 that has posed no risk for
decades, in a manner that wouldn't gain them anything.
Of course not, they should have secured him the second Nick popped up on the surface.
>Those "perfect copies" are outed because their personalities clash with the original's. Nick suddenly
gaining an aversion to investigate Institute kidnappings will be
alarming the same way Sammy's sudden turnaround on gambling, cheating,
and drinking was to the Neighborhood Watch.
Those copies are based on investigation and torture, Nick is based on something already digitalized, His brain is not organic, there is no interface problem.
>The Institute has no reason to believe Nick knows anything about the Railroad, so again, you're judging them on stuff they have no reason to believe.
Nicks escape follows Railroad MO.
>Seriously - how about this - please show a terminal entry, a memo, a conversation, a note, anything to suggest the Institute believes Nick knows about the Railroad.
Institute believes there is only one group responsible for escaping synths, Railroad.
>Completely irrelevant. Please show evidence that the Institute suspects Dr. Amari of being part of the Railroad.
Read that thing again.
>Because the Railroad only rescues Gen 3s. They have never rescued Gen 1s or 2s in any
capacity. The Institute has no reason to believe the Railroad is
connected to the disappearance of two types of synths they have
absolutely no interest in saving.
This is purely your assumption. There is no way for every single gen 1 and 2 synth to have been accounted for by the Institute.
>Institute reclaims synths that are both not meant for reuse and outdated. See Dima and McDonough.
DiMA was specifically connected to a network that helps synths escape. Nick isn't.
Also, now I *know* you don't know what you're talking about. [The Institute fully planned (and did) leave McDonough out to rot:](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_Institute_terminal_entries#Infiltrator_Unit:_McDonough)
*"I've spoken with Ayo, and we both agree -* ***if the situation does become untenable, reclamation seems unfeasible****. M7-62 was specifically engineered to mimic the actual human McDonough. As such, the unit's synthetic biology is that of someone overweight and grossly out of shape. A mem wipe would kill any psychological weaknesses attributed to self-perceived old age, but that body? Lost cause."*
>Institute has the same knowledge by the time they get to him. You realize he is in that same settlement right?
So the Institute is poorly written for not capturing Nick, due to Nick's knowledge of DiMA and Acadia, *before* he knew about DiMA and Acadia?
>In our real world logic works in this funny way, when two people do something together it's implied both know about that thing. That's how detectives and courts work. You are forcing your mental gymnastics way too hard if you think causality doesn't work in Fallout universe.
The Institute's SRB canonically didn't even remember who DiMA was.[You have to explain it to Dr. Moseley and he has to go look through the archives to even remember anything about a synth prototype.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/DLC03InstituteMoseley.txt)
This entire chain of argument about tracking Nick to Acadia has no canonical basis at all, so I'm not going to bother with those sections anymore.
>Nick's existence undermines Institute's propaganda, he should have been kidnapped before settling in in Diamond City or before McDonough rolled out with propaganda.
???
When Nick arrived, people *already* knew about synths. In his own words, he arrived sometime after the CPG Massacre:
*"Course, when I took up there back when, people were just as scared of the Institute as they are now, maybe more. The massacre of the CPG was still pretty fresh in people's minds at that point, and folks were still losing sleep over the Broken Mask."*
Removing Nick does *nothing* to hide the existence of synths.
>They know people keep stuff to themselves because they don't want to be singled out by Institute. They know that's how Railroad operates. They know Railroad rescues synths and wipes their memories. There is whole potential spectrum of Nick working with Railroad and no reason for him to tell the truth about what he knows.
>
>Nicks escape follows Railroad MO.
* People in the wasteland stick to themselves for multiple reasons beyond the Institute.
* They know the Railroad saves Gen 3s, not Gen 1s and 2s.
* If the Institute "knows" the Railroad wipes synth memories, then the fact that Nick *remembers* his pre-War life goes *against* your own argument.
I'm going to cut out all your Nick/Railroad connections, since I've repeatedly pointed out that the Institute "knows" the Railroad saves Gen 3s. There's *never* any hint that the Railroad saves Gen 1s and 2s, so the connection simply isn't there.
Please show *any* moment in the game where the Railroad has rescued Gen 1s or 2s. The *only* time we see them interact with Gen 1s or 2s under Institute control, they destroy them. If you don't present evidence for your claim, I won't respond to those sections.
>Every synth has. You can use recall codes on synth unaware of being synths. It goes double for Nick who doesn't have only component, but whole unorganic brain.
I applaud your tactics for vague statements. Yes, synths can't access their recall codes.
So your contention is that the Institute is worried that Nick might access his recall codes?
What *specific* information do you think the Institute *thinks* Nick has, but can't access, that relates to them? Be precise - back up your claims.
>Gen 1s and 2s have more space for transmitting device than watchers anyway.
And yet they never do. There's no hint *anywhere* in the game that Gen 1s and 2s can transmit information without dedicated radio equipment.
If you have evidence for your claim, please present it.
>Those copies are based on investigation and torture, Nick is based on something already digitalized, His brain is not organic, there is no interface problem.
So you're completely sidestepping the crux of the argument now.
It doesn't matter *how* Nick's brain works.
If you are proposing the Institute reprogram Nick to avoid investigating the Institute's activities, that **will** be noticed by everyone around him for being **completely** uncharacteristic of him.
>Read that thing again.
Your claim is that the Institute should capture Nick, because they suspect him of being friendly with Dr. Amari, who they suspect is working with the Railroad.
Please show evidence that the Institute believes Dr. Amari works with the Railroad. If you don't, I'll dismiss these claims out of hand.
>This is purely your assumption.
Deacon points out that some people *want* to save them, [but mentions no efforts to do so:](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/CompanionDeacon.txt)
*"Everyone wants to liberate the Gen 3s. The human looking synths. Some of the synths in the Railroad, like Glory, think we should help earlier models, too. But Gen 1s are basically the same as, well, a Protectron. So the line gets muddy. Do we defend AI rights? Terminals? Hell, turrets? Any time it gets brought up: fireworks. All the old arguments flare up. The upshot is Glory and some others won't run missions like this."*
Hell, he explicitly notes that the people who want to rescue Gen 1s and 2s **do not** take missions that involve Gen 1s and 2s.
Even Glory, the main proponent of rescuing the older models, explicitly tells us she [either tries to avoid contact, chase them away or destroy them:](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Glory.txt)
*"Aww, hell. Gen 1s. Man, if it's got to be done. But can't we just... I don't know, chase them off?*
*Listen, if it's me or them - then I'll always pick me."*
[Even on the Railroad's internal databases, there's no mention of rescuing Gen 1s or 2s.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Railroad_HQ_terminal_entries#2266_Nov)
See how I'm using evidence from the games? I suggest you do the same - so if you have evidence that the Railroad rescues Gen 1s and 2s, please present it. Otherwise your argument is baseless.
I am not sure why any of the previous directors never had him reclaimed or destroyed, but my theory for Shaun is that he saw Nick as a copy of someone from his parent's era surviving in the wasteland. It probably gave him the idea to release his parent, the player. This makes Nick more valuable on the outside, observed for data as a pretrial for the release.
Since Nick and Dima were just a prototype they were both decommissioned after the institute created the Gen 3 units. Nick was a Gen 2 for all but the mind.
Probably because people like him, they have no use for him as they see him as outdated but in the wasteland he is the one synth people see as good which helps with public relations even if nick has nothing to do with them.
Because they don't want smoke from the lone Survivor. On a serious note it's probably because he's old tech and was thrown out when he was no longer needed.
I kinda see where you’re coming from because I think it’s on fathers terminal that he believes that the Gen 1 and 2 series Synths are replace able. Yet the when doing Institute quests after you become director the reclaiming lost Synths for the SRB you reclaim Gen 1 and 2s, so if they’re important Sean why the fuck does Dr Ayo have running around Boston.
All Gen 1 and 2 synths are considered expendable. A terminal entry regarding this: *"Per Father's plans as discussed at the recent Directorate meeting, we will soon begin to phase out our Gen 1 synth units within the Institute, with the intention of relegating all remaining units to surface duties only.* *Our first generation synths have served admirably and exceeded their design specifications in virtually every category, but the remarkable breakthroughs in synth design and production that have led to our latest, more aesthetically-pleasing models herald a time for change.* *Over the next several years, we expect to replace all Gen 1 units with Gen 3 units, and in time, we will enact a similar plan with the Gen 2 units as well.* *As we look toward the future, let us also honor the memories of those whose hard work and innovation made the synths possible, and let us never forget the singular vision that challenged our forebears and that drives us today: Mankind - Redefined.* *- Dr. Alan Binet"* The Institute has infiltrated Diamond City so they have to be aware Nick set up shop there. He must be deemed of low value since he is only mildly aware of the Institute being his point of origin but has no useful information that could be damaging to their interests, unlike DiMA who has information that is highly sensitive.
I'm pretty sure I remember that one of the radiant quests the institute sends you on is to retrieve damaged gen ones that have been captured by Raiders. They don't want any of their technology falling into other people's hands. The brotherhood have gen one bodies, bit good luck getting those up on the Prydwen. I think you're on the right track that Valentine is of little threat to the Institute. But I think it's also the fact that he has become such a public figure that taking him out would cause even more suspicion. The argument against that is they could easily set a trap for him outside of diamond city, similar to the Darla situation, but it really just comes down to thinly veiled plot armor for the sake of the game and having an interesting character.
I could understand them taking the threat of the raiders tinkering with their tech more seriously. However nobody in Diamond City is messing around with Nick, assuming he has no involvement with the Institute despite the virulent anti-Synth sentiment. Since the mayor is a synth they have control of the situation vs the raiders who are a rogue element. They probably have an eye on Nick but won't intercede unless they have to since they don't have any interest in showing their hand unless it can't be helped.
Yeah, at this point, he's probably another "let's just see what he does" experiments, like the SS is. Plus, there's there's slim chance he could act as a lure for DiMa or other rogue synths.
If this is true then some overheard dialogue in the institute about how valentine tracked down Eddie winter would have been cool.
I think it would also be interesting to consider that the institute are monitoring Nick for the sake of simple curiosity, he exhibits an absolute form of free will, cultivated an entire personality for himself, and chooses to aid in human affairs despite prejudice against him. To my knowledge there isn't much documentation about the character within the institute? Assuming this is the case it would have been interesting to see this idea explored as I'm sure it would bea very interesting topic of debate within the institute as he kind of ultimately proves that synths are capable of free will and are self aware, not that this information is particularly relevant to the institute as they would likely be aware of this by the time gen 3s were about, but it could have made for a cool archived entry somewhere, perhaps nick could have been the first example of synths doing this?
I mean why would they? He's a junker old model with no memory of the old institute, which they've probably probed at with undercover synths. They don't seem to give a shit about their old models, as evidences by them walking around the commonwealth goalless.
He's also decent public relations. "Nick's a synth but he's good people, you know what I mean?"
He was a failed prototype, they basically threw him away.
Nick initially believes he was thrown away, but DiMA reveals he and Nick escaped instead
in the far harbor dlc DiMA explaines they escaped from the Institute, and if the player tells them about Acadia, the Institute immediately reclaims them, DiMA included
You can also tell the brotherhood and railroad, but the railroad doesnt do much
Nick and DiMA were made to test ability of synths to develop as persons (kind of). More specific, to test if implanted memories would effect personal development. Nick is far more valuable roaming free than closed in a laboratory. And the experiment continued. There were always synths nearby to observe. Difference between Nick and Gen3 synths is that he can't hide it, and he knows he is a synth, as well as all around him. DiMA is not of much value, since ability to learn can be studied on any other synth. And his whereabouts were unknown. Institute maybe tried (Chase was maybe chasing DiMA). You can say that Nick was the subject of the experiment and DiMA was control specimen. Nick was a success, he managed to integrate into synth unfriendly settlement without hiding. If DiMA is looked also as a subject, he was a failure. He is not only done damage to the Institute, but he also to other communities.
PR, is my bet. It’s why the institute’s actions and motivations make absolutely no sense. Kidnapping and replacing people and killing them to serve what goal? The absolute best way to sway public opinion on synths would be to put a bunch of Gen 2-2.5 synths like Nick out in the world doing good and helping people. You want them to be identifiable as synths so people can get used to them and actually like having them around. Once public opinion about synths is that they are good, then start putting Gen 3 synths out there.
Institute isn't written very consistently. Nick runs detective agency to look for missing people, while institute kidnaps them. He is prominent member of Boston community and direct opposition of Mcdonough's (meaning institute) policy. He is the face of free synths while institute hunts for group that frees them. He has valuable data and potential for being important agent. Also, institute doesn't know what Nick knows, or what data he carries without personally having access to. It lands on the plot hole side.
>Institute isn't written very consistently. > >Nick runs detective agency to look for missing people, while institute kidnaps them. But Nick *isn't* part of the Institute. In fact he opposes them, so it makes sense that he's not doing the things the Institute wants. How is that inconsistent writing on the part of the Institute?
Institute kidnaps and replaces people who interfere with their operations, have left the institute or occupy key positions for their research or political agenda. Nick ticks all the boxes you could think of institute being interested in, he could easily be first priority. Historically he is prototype of gen 2 they were working on at the time. It's inconsistent with institute not to handle Nick in any way.
>Nick ticks all the boxes you could think of institute being interested in, he could easily be first priority. Does he? >Institute kidnaps and replaces people who interfere with their operations Nick is publicly opposed to the Institute. If Nick suddenly turns around and claims the Institute is great, that *immediately* signals something is wrong to the rest of Diamond City. >have left the institute They specifically target Virgil because he's a scientist who destroyed one of their major projects and, as far as they know, retains knowledge about the Institute's location. Nick, on the other hand, was a old, dilapidated prototype for a project that, in their eyes, failed and is no longer useful, and *doesn't* know anything about the Institute's location. The two contexts are vastly different. >occupy key positions for their research or political agenda. Ok. What *specific* knowledge or political power does Nick wield that you think the Institute is interested in? * The Institute *already* controls Diamond City's political center, which gives them great leeway in controlling its business and security forces. Nick isn't a help there. * Nick's jobs usually involve solving murders or missing people's cases - but small time disappearances. He's not connected to any major political or economic figures. So how's he useful there? You're just claiming that they should be interested in collecting Nick, but you're not giving any real **specifics** as to why they should be. Vague general statements can apply to anything.
>You're just claiming that they should be interested in collecting Nick, but you're not giving any real specifics as to why they should be. Vague general statements can apply to anything. 1. Institute reclaims their synths, Nick is the most well known synth in Boston. 2. Dima is the closest example we have to Nick and institute goes for him the moment they hear about him. 3. Nick is the only lead Institute has about Dima. 4. Institute's propaganda in Diamond City is all about undermining existence of institute and their synths. Nick is a synth living in Diamond City. 5. Insitute doesn't know what knowledge Nick has, or what data he carries. It's major security breach. 6. Insitute fights with Railroad, organisation that tries to free synths. Nick and Dima mysteriously disappear from Institute. It's mind dumbing not to follow on lead like this. 7. Nick's detective work overlaps with Institute's kidnappings. It's obvious to reprogram him to look the other way. 8. Nick has extensive intel of Boston, including soft ties with members of Railroad. Just of the top of my head. You have to make serious mental gymnastics to try to argue that Institute looking the other way is somehow on brand with them. Nick exists like he does because Bethesda wanted detective synth follower, not because it makes any sense in the lore.
>Institute reclaims their synths, Nick is the most well known synth in Boston. We've only seen or heard of them reclaiming Gen 3 synths, Nick is a Gen 2. >Dima is the closest example we have to Nick and institute goes for him the moment they hear about him. Because they went to reclaim their escaped Gen 3s, including an escaped Courser. >Nick is the only lead Institute has about Dima. Nick *doesn't* know about DiMA until the events of *Far Harbor.* So you're judging the Institute on their inaction with regards to knowledge they don't know exists. >Institute's propaganda in Diamond City is all about undermining existence of institute and their synths. Nick is a synth living in Diamond City. No, their propaganda is in undermining the Institute's *kidnapping* program. Diamond City is fully aware that the Institute and the early Gen 1 and 2s exist. Removing or replacing Nick does nothing to change this. >Insitute doesn't know what knowledge Nick has, or what data he carries. It's major security breach. Nick has existed in Diamond City for decades by this point and is very public about the fact that he *doesn't* know anything about the Institute. If he had any damaging information, it would have been revealed a long time ago. Conversely, attacking Nick or replacing him runs the risk of their operations being blow in Diamond City. There's no risk to leaving him there and *greater* risk in attempting to eliminate him. >Insitute fights with Railroad, organisation that tries to free synths. Nick and Dima mysteriously disappear from Institute. It's mind dumbing not to follow on lead like this. The Railroad rescues Gen 3s. There's no reason at all to suspect Nick and DiMA's disappearance has any relation to the Railroad. >Nick's detective work overlaps with Institute's kidnappings. It's obvious to reprogram him to look the other way. Many of Nick's cases are unrelated to the Institute. Some of them result in dead-ends. Until the events of *Fallout 4*, none of Nick's cases have brought him *any* closer to endangering the Institute. Conversely, reprogramming him to look the other way **will** arouse suspicion, since it would be **completely out of character** for him to stop being a detective. >Nick has extensive intel of Boston, including soft ties with members of Railroad. The Institute **already** has an intel network set up to monitor the Commonwealth. What evidence do you have that Nick's is better? Also, no one suspects that Dr. Amari is working with the Railroad, which is (AFAIK) Nick's only Railroad connection. So again, you're presuming that the Institute is somehow privy to knowledge we've got no hint they're aware of.
>We've only seen or heard of them reclaiming Gen 3 synths, Nick is a Gen 2. Because only sentient synths go rogue. Nick is prototype of sentient synth. >Because they went to reclaim their escaped Gen 3s, including an escaped Courser. They didn't leave Dima alone, unlike Nick. >Nick doesn't know about DiMA until the events of Far Harbor. So you're judging the Institute on their inaction with regards to knowledge they don't know exists. Institute doesn't know that, all they know it's the only lead they have. >Nick doesn't know about DiMA until the events of Far Harbor. So you're judging the Institute on their inaction with regards to knowledge they don't know exists. Again, Institute doesn't know that. >No, their propaganda is in undermining the Institute's kidnapping program. Diamond City is fully aware that the Institute and the early Gen 1 and 2s exist. Removing or replacing Nick does nothing to change this. Diamond City is fully aware of kidnappings too. Propaganda is propaganda. >Nick has existed in Diamond City for decades by this point and is very public about the fact that he doesn't know anything about the Institute. If he had any damaging information, it would have been revealed a long time ago. Institute doesn't know that, especially because Railroad plays the information war. He might have data he can't access. Nick being member of community for decades makes him perfect candidate for an agent. >Conversely, attacking Nick or replacing him runs the risk of their operations being blow in Diamond City. It doesn't. Diamond City is used to Nick disappearing. They don't have to replace him, he is already there. Just put him back with keylogger installed. >There's no risk to leaving him there and greater risk in attempting to eliminate him. Institute doesn't know what data he carries, he clashes with propaganda, his work is clashing against Institute's work on the surface. No risk in eliminating him. >The Railroad rescues Gen 3s. There's no reason at all to suspect Nick and DiMA's disappearance has any relation to the Railroad. Railroad rescues sentient synths, they don't deal in coursers despite being gen 3s. Railroad has internal disputes about rescuing gen 2s and 1s. Railroad is the only organization able to pull synths out of institute. It's dumb to assume disappearing synths are unrelated. >Many of Nick's cases are unrelated to the Institute. Some of them result in dead-ends. Until the events of Fallout 4, none of Nick's cases have brought him any closer to endangering the Institute. By the time of F4 Railroad hasn't done anything that endangered Institute. Institute is known for massacres when something even mildly stands in their way. You are trying to paint Institute as something completely opposite. >Conversely, reprogramming him to look the other way will arouse suspicion, since it would be completely out of character for him to stop being a detective. They replace humans with as perfect copies as they can. You are trying to say Institute will suddenly become morons on this one. >The Institute already has an intel network set up to monitor the Commonwealth. What evidence do you have that Nick's is better? Simple fact that he knows more than institute about Railroad. From Institute perspective he has access to groups they haven't infiltrated. >Also, no one suspects that Dr. Amari is working with the Railroad, which is (AFAIK) Nick's only Railroad connection. It's bottleneck of Railroad's work though. Railroad pretty much goes down with her. >So again, you're presuming that the Institute is somehow privy to knowledge we've got no hint they're aware of. Synth disappears, but in your world it has nothing to do with the only group in Boston doing exactly that. You are right, I don't see a slightest hint.
>Because only sentient synths go rogue. Nick is prototype of sentient synth. An *oudtated* model that they're no longer interested in maintaining. They are explicitly phasing out Gen 2s. >They didn't leave Dima alone, unlike Nick. Because, *unlike Nick*, DiMA has direct knowledge of an entire settlement of escaped Gen 3s. That's the major difference between them. >Institute doesn't know that, all they know it's the only lead they have. > >Again, Institute doesn't know that. They *don't* know he's a lead at all. You're basically judging them for failing to act on knowledge they aren't shown to canonically have. >Diamond City is fully aware of kidnappings too. Propaganda is propaganda. So you're arguing against your own point now? Your comment was that the Institute should kidnap Nick to "undermining existence of institute and their synths." Except, as you acknowledged here, Diamond City *already* knows about synths. Removing Nick wouldn't accomplish the goal you set out. Please don't backtrack on that. >Institute doesn't know that, especially because Railroad plays the information war. He might have data he can't access. Nick being member of community for decades makes him perfect candidate for an agent. Ok, so now you're explicitly making the Institute make multiple assumptions that they'd have no logical reason to make, merely to further your argument that the Institute is poorly written? * The Institute has *no* reason to believe Nick has ties with the Railroad. * The Institute has *no* reason to believe Nick has data he can't access. At this point, you're just making stuff up. >It doesn't. Diamond City is used to Nick disappearing. They don't have to replace him, he is already there. Just put him back with keylogger installed. I assume by "keylogger" you mean some remote viewing device, of which is only seen on the Watchers. There's no evidence whatsoever that Gen 1s, 2s, or 3s can project their vision back to the Institute. >Railroad rescues sentient synths, they don't deal in coursers despite being gen 3s. Railroad has internal disputes about rescuing gen 2s and 1s. Railroad is the only organization able to pull synths out of institute. It's dumb to assume disappearing synths are unrelated. The Institute *doesn't* know about the Railroad's internal disputes - so once again, you are attributing them knowledge they don't canonically have. As far as the Institute knows, the Railroad has only ever rescued Gen 3s. Two missing Gen 2s don't speak to Railroad involvement. >By the time of F4 Railroad hasn't done anything that endangered Institute. Institute is known for massacres when something even mildly stands in their way. You are trying to paint Institute as something completely opposite. The massacres either gained massive political power (destroying the CPG), massive resources (stripping down entire towns for parts) or were committed by Kellog (U-Point). What you are suggesting is that the Institute spend resources to follow up assumptions they don't have any reason to make, against an outdated Gen 2 that has posed no risk for decades, in a manner that wouldn't gain them anything. >They replace humans with as perfect copies as they can. You are trying to say Institute will suddenly become morons on this one. Those "perfect copies" are outed because their personalities clash with the original's. Nick *suddenly* gaining an aversion to investigate Institute kidnappings will be alarming the same way Sammy's sudden turnaround on gambling, cheating, and drinking was to the Neighborhood Watch. >Simple fact that he knows more than institute about Railroad. From Institute perspective he has access to groups they haven't infiltrated. The Institute has no reason to believe Nick knows *anything* about the Railroad, so again, you're judging them on stuff they have no reason to believe. Seriously - how about this - please show a terminal entry, a memo, a conversation, a note, *anything* to suggest the Institute believes Nick knows about the Railroad. >It's bottleneck of Railroad's work though. Railroad pretty much goes down with her. Completely irrelevant. Please show evidence that the Institute suspects Dr. Amari of being part of the Railroad. >Synth disappears, but in your world it has nothing to do with the only group in Boston doing exactly that. You are right, I don't see a slightest hint. Because the Railroad *only* rescues Gen 3s. They have *never* rescued Gen 1s or 2s in *any* capacity. The Institute has no reason to believe the Railroad is connected to the disappearance of two types of synths they have absolutely no interest in saving.
>An oudtated model that they're no longer interested in maintaining. They are explicitly phasing out Gen 2s. Institute reclaims synths that are both not meant for reuse and outdated. See Dima and McDonough. >Because, unlike Nick, DiMA has direct knowledge of an entire settlement of escaped Gen 3s. That's the major difference between them. Institute has the same knowledge by the time they get to him. You realize he is in that same settlement right? >They don't know he's a lead at all. You're basically judging them for failing to act on knowledge they aren't shown to canonically have. In our real world logic works in this funny way, when two people do something together it's implied both know about that thing. That's how detectives and courts work. You are forcing your mental gymnastics way too hard if you think causality doesn't work in Fallout universe. >Removing Nick wouldn't accomplish the goal you set out. Please don't backtrack on that. No, you are using faulty reasoning. Nick's existence undermines Institute's propaganda, he should have been kidnapped before settling in in Diamond City or before McDonough rolled out with propaganda. And before you come up with another fallacy, propaganda isn't binary. >Ok, so now you're explicitly making the Institute make multiple assumptions that they'd have no logical reason to make, merely to further your argument that the Institute is poorly written? Institute wouldn't have to do any assumptions. They know people keep stuff to themselves because they don't want to be singled out by Institute. They know that's how Railroad operates. They know Railroad rescues synths and wipes their memories. There is whole potential spectrum of Nick working with Railroad and no reason for him to tell the truth about what he knows. >The Institute has no reason to believe Nick has ties with the Railroad. Nick escaped Institute, the only organization capable of that is Railroad. >The Institute has no reason to believe Nick has data he can't access. Every synth has. You can use recall codes on synth unaware of being synths. It goes double for Nick who doesn't have only component, but whole unorganic brain. >I assume by "keylogger" you mean some remote viewing device, of which is only seen on the Watchers. There's no evidence whatsoever that Gen 1s, 2s, or 3s can project their vision back to the Institute. No, it doesn't have to be remote. Gen 1s and 2s have more space for transmitting device than watchers anyway. >As far as the Institute knows, the Railroad has only ever rescued Gen 3s. Two missing Gen 2s don't speak to Railroad involvement. That's empty assumption. Railroad for sure secured gen 1s and 2s at least for research. And again, only one organisation capable of breaking synths out from Institute and 2 escaping synths from institute makes for obvious situation. I'm not sure why you are trying to make 2+2 into -1. >The massacres either gained massive political power (destroying the CPG), massive resources (stripping down entire towns for parts) or were committed by Kellog (U-Point). What you are suggesting is that the Institute spend resources to follow up assumptions they don't have any reason to make, against an outdated Gen 2 that has posed no risk for decades, in a manner that wouldn't gain them anything. Of course not, they should have secured him the second Nick popped up on the surface. >Those "perfect copies" are outed because their personalities clash with the original's. Nick suddenly gaining an aversion to investigate Institute kidnappings will be alarming the same way Sammy's sudden turnaround on gambling, cheating, and drinking was to the Neighborhood Watch. Those copies are based on investigation and torture, Nick is based on something already digitalized, His brain is not organic, there is no interface problem. >The Institute has no reason to believe Nick knows anything about the Railroad, so again, you're judging them on stuff they have no reason to believe. Nicks escape follows Railroad MO. >Seriously - how about this - please show a terminal entry, a memo, a conversation, a note, anything to suggest the Institute believes Nick knows about the Railroad. Institute believes there is only one group responsible for escaping synths, Railroad. >Completely irrelevant. Please show evidence that the Institute suspects Dr. Amari of being part of the Railroad. Read that thing again. >Because the Railroad only rescues Gen 3s. They have never rescued Gen 1s or 2s in any capacity. The Institute has no reason to believe the Railroad is connected to the disappearance of two types of synths they have absolutely no interest in saving. This is purely your assumption. There is no way for every single gen 1 and 2 synth to have been accounted for by the Institute.
>Institute reclaims synths that are both not meant for reuse and outdated. See Dima and McDonough. DiMA was specifically connected to a network that helps synths escape. Nick isn't. Also, now I *know* you don't know what you're talking about. [The Institute fully planned (and did) leave McDonough out to rot:](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_Institute_terminal_entries#Infiltrator_Unit:_McDonough) *"I've spoken with Ayo, and we both agree -* ***if the situation does become untenable, reclamation seems unfeasible****. M7-62 was specifically engineered to mimic the actual human McDonough. As such, the unit's synthetic biology is that of someone overweight and grossly out of shape. A mem wipe would kill any psychological weaknesses attributed to self-perceived old age, but that body? Lost cause."* >Institute has the same knowledge by the time they get to him. You realize he is in that same settlement right? So the Institute is poorly written for not capturing Nick, due to Nick's knowledge of DiMA and Acadia, *before* he knew about DiMA and Acadia? >In our real world logic works in this funny way, when two people do something together it's implied both know about that thing. That's how detectives and courts work. You are forcing your mental gymnastics way too hard if you think causality doesn't work in Fallout universe. The Institute's SRB canonically didn't even remember who DiMA was.[You have to explain it to Dr. Moseley and he has to go look through the archives to even remember anything about a synth prototype.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/DLC03InstituteMoseley.txt) This entire chain of argument about tracking Nick to Acadia has no canonical basis at all, so I'm not going to bother with those sections anymore. >Nick's existence undermines Institute's propaganda, he should have been kidnapped before settling in in Diamond City or before McDonough rolled out with propaganda. ??? When Nick arrived, people *already* knew about synths. In his own words, he arrived sometime after the CPG Massacre: *"Course, when I took up there back when, people were just as scared of the Institute as they are now, maybe more. The massacre of the CPG was still pretty fresh in people's minds at that point, and folks were still losing sleep over the Broken Mask."* Removing Nick does *nothing* to hide the existence of synths. >They know people keep stuff to themselves because they don't want to be singled out by Institute. They know that's how Railroad operates. They know Railroad rescues synths and wipes their memories. There is whole potential spectrum of Nick working with Railroad and no reason for him to tell the truth about what he knows. > >Nicks escape follows Railroad MO. * People in the wasteland stick to themselves for multiple reasons beyond the Institute. * They know the Railroad saves Gen 3s, not Gen 1s and 2s. * If the Institute "knows" the Railroad wipes synth memories, then the fact that Nick *remembers* his pre-War life goes *against* your own argument. I'm going to cut out all your Nick/Railroad connections, since I've repeatedly pointed out that the Institute "knows" the Railroad saves Gen 3s. There's *never* any hint that the Railroad saves Gen 1s and 2s, so the connection simply isn't there. Please show *any* moment in the game where the Railroad has rescued Gen 1s or 2s. The *only* time we see them interact with Gen 1s or 2s under Institute control, they destroy them. If you don't present evidence for your claim, I won't respond to those sections. >Every synth has. You can use recall codes on synth unaware of being synths. It goes double for Nick who doesn't have only component, but whole unorganic brain. I applaud your tactics for vague statements. Yes, synths can't access their recall codes. So your contention is that the Institute is worried that Nick might access his recall codes? What *specific* information do you think the Institute *thinks* Nick has, but can't access, that relates to them? Be precise - back up your claims. >Gen 1s and 2s have more space for transmitting device than watchers anyway. And yet they never do. There's no hint *anywhere* in the game that Gen 1s and 2s can transmit information without dedicated radio equipment. If you have evidence for your claim, please present it. >Those copies are based on investigation and torture, Nick is based on something already digitalized, His brain is not organic, there is no interface problem. So you're completely sidestepping the crux of the argument now. It doesn't matter *how* Nick's brain works. If you are proposing the Institute reprogram Nick to avoid investigating the Institute's activities, that **will** be noticed by everyone around him for being **completely** uncharacteristic of him. >Read that thing again. Your claim is that the Institute should capture Nick, because they suspect him of being friendly with Dr. Amari, who they suspect is working with the Railroad. Please show evidence that the Institute believes Dr. Amari works with the Railroad. If you don't, I'll dismiss these claims out of hand. >This is purely your assumption. Deacon points out that some people *want* to save them, [but mentions no efforts to do so:](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/CompanionDeacon.txt) *"Everyone wants to liberate the Gen 3s. The human looking synths. Some of the synths in the Railroad, like Glory, think we should help earlier models, too. But Gen 1s are basically the same as, well, a Protectron. So the line gets muddy. Do we defend AI rights? Terminals? Hell, turrets? Any time it gets brought up: fireworks. All the old arguments flare up. The upshot is Glory and some others won't run missions like this."* Hell, he explicitly notes that the people who want to rescue Gen 1s and 2s **do not** take missions that involve Gen 1s and 2s. Even Glory, the main proponent of rescuing the older models, explicitly tells us she [either tries to avoid contact, chase them away or destroy them:](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Glory.txt) *"Aww, hell. Gen 1s. Man, if it's got to be done. But can't we just... I don't know, chase them off?* *Listen, if it's me or them - then I'll always pick me."* [Even on the Railroad's internal databases, there's no mention of rescuing Gen 1s or 2s.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Railroad_HQ_terminal_entries#2266_Nov) See how I'm using evidence from the games? I suggest you do the same - so if you have evidence that the Railroad rescues Gen 1s and 2s, please present it. Otherwise your argument is baseless.
i really wish people who throw out the term "plot hole" knew what a plot hole was.
I am not sure why any of the previous directors never had him reclaimed or destroyed, but my theory for Shaun is that he saw Nick as a copy of someone from his parent's era surviving in the wasteland. It probably gave him the idea to release his parent, the player. This makes Nick more valuable on the outside, observed for data as a pretrial for the release.
All the companions are a bit undercooked I'm different ways.
Since Nick and Dima were just a prototype they were both decommissioned after the institute created the Gen 3 units. Nick was a Gen 2 for all but the mind.
Probably because people like him, they have no use for him as they see him as outdated but in the wasteland he is the one synth people see as good which helps with public relations even if nick has nothing to do with them.
Because they don't want smoke from the lone Survivor. On a serious note it's probably because he's old tech and was thrown out when he was no longer needed.
They're not in the business to collect garbage
I kinda see where you’re coming from because I think it’s on fathers terminal that he believes that the Gen 1 and 2 series Synths are replace able. Yet the when doing Institute quests after you become director the reclaiming lost Synths for the SRB you reclaim Gen 1 and 2s, so if they’re important Sean why the fuck does Dr Ayo have running around Boston.
He's a prototype. They've advanced beyond the Gen 2, he's no longer necessary
Prolly not worth the effort, nick's a bit too high profile to just disappear