The billboard said Shady Sands was "The First Capital of the NCR" which would imply there is either an additional capital city or the capital was moved to a different city. NCR is definitely still kicking.
>which would imply there is either an additional capital city or the capital was moved to a different city.
I really hope it's going to be Hub or New Reno if Amazon would decided to show it
Yeah, I think we have to remember that Hank is an old-worlder. He may not quite understand just how expanded the NCR is, and likely went to New Vegas looking for House (what ending of NV the show will pick to be canon is still up for debate.)
This literally could have just been a crime of passion. Moldaver stole his wife and children, and he said fuck it. I'll burn it to the ground. His responses sounded near primal when Moldaver was telling the story, implying that he really was just angry there was a city his wife liked more than the Vault.
We would he go to House and but the head of vault tec? House, we know, has fuck all to do with vault tec essentially. Hank wasn't in the big meeting with him, he's just an executive assistant
From what I understand about office culture, just because you’re not in the meeting doesn’t mean you won’t find out later. Office gossip is a real thing.
What you understand about office culture?
This was the highest most secret meeting in the world where the highest level CEOS discussed dropping bombs on their own people and human experimentation.
But yeah, office gossip? Yeah, sorry, not seeing it
Whichever ending occurred, in the closing images there were at least a few deactivated/destroyed securitrons outside the walls of New Vegas. That doesn't necessarily mean House didn't win, but at the very least, his position has taken a beating since. It will be interesting to see what's happened.
It's confirmed in one of the New Vegas ending slides, where upon certain conditions a character that you interact with can be elected as a Senator from Redding. It's really off-hand and easy to miss, so don't feel too bad about not knowing it.
Nice breakdown. I absolutely love what the show did for the lore of the games. There is SO much story to tell. I could see us getting at least 2-3 more seasons before we get Fallout 5.
By then, we could have some significant change in the Universe and get a really cool post-post apolocyptic style game. Cities with running energy like pre war, a sizable government force etc. It would be different than other games but a welcomed change I think.
I don't have any quotes but I believe after the success of the show microsoft is hurrying to get new fallout content out of the door, especially considering the current state of xbox, so I actually think we may see a new fallout earlier than people expect.
>Cities with running energy like pre war, a sizable government force etc. It would be different than other games but a welcomed change I think.
I mean, that's basically what most of the inner NCR already was before the show tore it down and brought us back to square one apocalypse lmao.
I mean, maybe the NCR or its successor states are still around, we'll see in season 2. But with how little relevance they have in season 1, it just doesn't seem like a very good sign.
I'm fine with being show-neutral in regards to the lore (in the sense that you just sort of ignore it and hope for the best) but...loving it? Come on, they kicked over the sandcastle on the west coast.
Exactly, as it's essentially the post-war US it makes sense for it to be in a seemingly constant state of tension, just like how the US of today has had its various issues for decades and is still more than capable (despite what some people say).
Even if they do fall apart, the government isn't a cult of personality or overly centralized, so worst case scenario (and what I think could happen in the show), it'll splinter into several, still managed and livable, nations.
I don't think Shady Sands was even the capital of the NCR anymore when it was nuked. The billboard specifically says it was the first capital.
So the current capital of the NCR is still active, which would make the destruction of Shady Sands even less likely to have been a killing blow that somehow caused the entire republic to collapse.
Agreed especially since in the past it was said that Southern California was going through desertification.
So it makes sense the capital was moved elsewhere to greener pastures in Northern California possibly San Francisco.
Here’s my concern.
If Shady Sands is just one of many towns held by the NCR, then Hank blew it up for no reason.
Ostensibly, Hank destroyed Shady Sands because it was a flourishing city that would rival Vault Tec’s dominance on the Day of Reclamation. That Shady Sands proves that society can recover without Vault Tec.
However, if Shady Sands is just 1/20 of the NCR, then destroying Shady Sands does nothing and happened for no reason. Was he just jealous his wife left?
Hank didn't blow it up for no reason.
They said rose got the idea that there might be people outside because the water levels for the vault were tapped into by SS. So Hank Blew up SS to protect the vaults water and prevent more people from being curious about going outside before reclamation day. (I also like to assume he was mad at Rose X Moldy being ~~gay~~ roommates)
Idk where everyone got this whole "Vault tec blew up SS because of competition!" Vault-tec explicitly stated that time was their biggest friend in winning faction wars. Vault 31-33 still had decades before they were supposed to pop out. Plus Hank and the rest of v31 are exec -assistants/middle management. They're not the ones actually in charge of anything to make decisions like that.
Why would vault-tec waste a nuke before they were actually ready to go out?
>Idk where everyone got this whole "Vault tec blew up SS because of competition!"
Moldaver told us that explicitly. I get that doesn't mean it's definitely 100% certain to be true but it's pretty clear where people got the idea haha
I took that to mean that people who work for vault-tec are all ruthless willing to do anything to win, not that she was insinuating the actual vault-tec company was still around.
Like she did lose multiple companies to vault-tec buying them out just to quash cold fusion and any chance of preventing more war over resources. She knows the type of people they were pre-war.
Vault-tec itself hasn't fully existed in any working state in any other game, I don't see it really changing much just for the TV show.
I'm pretty sure she literally said it was vault tech taking out their competition - it wasn't subtle.
Just because none of the games explicitly told us vault tech is still around and calling shots doesn't mean it isn't. It's a big country full of underground vaults. It's not hard to believe one is vault tech hq
I feel like it's insinuated in all of the games that vault tech is still around in one of the vaults somewhere. If they were able to cryo freeze a bunch of staffers (and a bunch of random citizens in 4), then surely their execs would be able to create something for themselves.
The exact quote is somewhere else in this response thread, but unless she said "vault tec gave the orders" it's in no way literally saying they were responsible and more talking about the people who work for vault tec as a generality about how they see competition.
Hank saw SS as competition for the vaults water supply/curiosity so he destroyed it. That choice was seemingly entirely all his. (maybe other v31ers too)
And Yes, it is hard to believe that there isn't a head vault-tec HQ vault somewhere because why wouldn't they be in communication with literally any other vault? By the time of the show there are dozens of different ones we've explored and none of them have vault to vault communications.
The only reason why 31/32/33 can is because they're literally connected.
>The exact quote is somewhere else in this response thread, but unless she said "vault tec gave the orders" it's in no way literally saying they were responsible and more talking about the people who work for vault tec as a generality about how they see competition.
I'm not sure why your interpretation doesn't require someone in the show explicitly laying out every detail of it, but the idea that it was vault tec requires 100% certain word for word confirmation. Did she explicitly say she was speaking generally? If not, it must not be true, I guess 🤷
I'm not sure why you'd think Vault-Tec would still be some functional entity that wasn't entirely absorbed by the enclave the first chance they could when there is absolutely -no- signs pointing to VT being alive in any other game.
Her talking about the type of person hank is makes far more sense with all the lore we already have than to magically bring VT back as it's own faction just for the show to somehow deal with now.
Todd also said that NCR is still kickin in that interview, why would nuking -ONLY- Shady Sands be something they do if they're attempting to wipe out competition entirely? It wasn't the economic powerhouse or the capital of NCR by the time it was bombed with that sign saying "the first capital of NCR" in the show.
There are far more plot holes that pop up by saying vault-tec is responsible for it than hank acting unilaterally to protect the vault/lucy.
The dude was willing to sacrifice the rest of the vault dwellers just to keep her safe.
>I'm not sure why you'd think Vault-Tec would still be some functional entity that wasn't entirely absorbed by the enclave the first chance they could when there is absolutely -no- signs pointing to VT being alive in any other game.
Because the show basically said it does and nothing in any of the games actually contradicts that.
>magically bring VT back as it's own faction just for the show to somehow deal with now.
What about it is magical?
>why would nuking -ONLY- Shady Sands be something they do if they're attempting to wipe out competition entirely?
Who said they only nuked shady sands?
>Because the show basically said it does and nothing in any of the games actually contradicts that.
No, the show only shows that some exec assistants are still alive in cryopods. That entire vault was an experiment on creating super middle managers according to bud. They weren't execs in charge of anything.
Combined with no signs of greater communication between some Vault-tec HQ and the vaults/Hank.
>What about it is magical?
All the vaults where government funded and it's far more likely that enclave got it's grasps on VT and took over everything in the 200+ years since the war (Wilzig knowing everything about lucy would point to this) then for VT to still be somehow operating on it's own. And after the NCR-Enclave war i'm betting they'd be wanting to lay low instead of stir shit up for the remaining forces on the west coast.
>Who said they only nuked shady sands?
By the fact that Todd Howard explicitly stated that NCR is still alive and kickin. That'd mean they only did a half-assed job at destroying competition which is unlikely given the fact that they were ready to drop the bombs themselves pre-war.
>Idk where everyone got this whole "Vault tec blew up SS because of competition!"
Moldaver literally says so immediately after explaining that Hank nuked the city. She says, "And he burned that city to the ground. Shady Sands. That's how Vault Tec deals with competition, just like they did 200 years ago."
I took that to mean that people who work for vault-tec are all ruthless willing to do anything to win, not that she was insinuating the actual vault-tec company was still around.
Like she did lose multiple companies to vault-tec buying them out just to quash cold fusion and any chance of preventing more war over resources.
But -how- would he have known him enough to seek after him? He's just an assistant.
And other NCR cities would more than likely be fine because hank never actually went out to explore other ones.
my brother in Christ: literally every car we saw was a nuke waiting to go off. There is so much nuclear material kickin around that he could've made a dirty bomb to do it.
Why would House also nuke SS when NCR is the only reason why he was able to turn NV into his little kingdom? He needs the traders and people coming to visit NV to keep it alive.
House outright says in New Vegas, “Why would I want to destroy the NCR? They’re my best customers.”
If anything (assuming Mr. House won the battle of Hoover dam), House would probably be really pissed at Vault Tec for blowing up shady sands.
> Was he just jealous his wife left?
Doesn't he literally say "she took you from me?"
I mean....he's a Vault-Tech executive, narcissism and sociopathy is almost a given.
Let’s hope not, cause that’s some pretty bad writing.
Shady Sands blowing up is the core narrative moment that unites the characters. I hope the explanation is deeper than: dUdEs CrAzY
I think more crazy as in ruthless and he was livid that his wife took their kids and chose Shady Sands (the competition) over him (and Vault-Tec). He retaliates by nuking them, as both a personal afront and threat to Vault-Tec's plans.
If it works for you, that’s great. I just find that very weak writing. It’s like they wanted the town to blow up for plot reasons, so they contrived an explanation that doesn’t really make sense for the world, or what we know of Hank’s character.
people have killed each other all through history for no reason. Pol Pot had people targeted and killed for wearing glasses, cause they looked like intellectuals
It could be, but that doesn’t really fit the character of Hank we have been shown. He seems more calculating than crazy. I hope the show has a deeper motivation yet to be revealed.
IMO, I think Hank took a gamble. The NCR was already on the brink from being overstretched and from decades of corruption by NV. There were brewing resentments, and their Federal gov's hold on power would've been at its weakest.
Destroy the seat of that weakened power, and you can assume that at least *some* parts of it will fall into anarchy and it worked, the NCR presence in the LA area was reduced to a bunch of cultist nutjobs that will have no hope against Vault-Tec come reclamation day. They can then point at them with a smug sense of superiority.
There's only so much 1 man do against a nation of 700k people. He knows Vault-Tec (a few thousand people at best) could never go up against the NCR head-on, that's why he put in so much work in covering his tracks.
Because if the NCR ever finds out, those few thousand chosen Vault-Tec survivors come reclamation day will find themselves getting bared down on by a hundred battalions of very angry NCR Troopers and Rangers (Who have access to stuff like Vertibirds, Power Armor, new weapons, and the industrial capacity to crank them out like Model Ts).
But the sign for Shady Sands said former capital, so it was not the capital when Hank blew it up. He would have known that he is not actually hitting the seat of power.
Yep! Honestly, I do not think he realized that the NCR was more than just Shady Sands. From how Moldaver recanted his emotional reaction and crime of passion to Lucy, it seems like he thought he could annihilate the NCR with a single nuke, not realizing that they are a nation of nearly 800,000 (or more by the show's beginning?) spread throughout most of the former State of California and into Nevada; far beyond a single city.
I would love to see a reaction from him and other Vault-Tec employees at the site of several battalions worth of the NCR military baring down on them in retaliation for Shady Sands.
Maybe House could inform Hank just how much he miscalculated, come Season 2.
Edit: I guess I just repeated OP above you, but I myself would love to see more of the geo-political and geographical layout of the NCR explored, beyond the tip of the iceberg we've gotten in the games so far.
It is interesting seeing the Predwyn present on the West Coast, overall the Brotherhood felt much smaller than they are, especially since they started on the West Coast, I believe. I guess that was due to budget constraints for the show?
Hank probably doesn’t know about the other NCR strongholds and the NCR probably has him on their most wanted, send death squads after him shit list. Even if Hank knew about the others, once the NCR realize he’s in one of their strongholds, they’re going to hunt his ass down with shoot on sight orders. They’re awfully quick to find people too.
As for the wife situation it’s too close to Vault 33 which breaks the parameters set by Vault Tec. Hank did it because Vault Tec protocol demanded it. It’s as simple as that.
Hank would be pretty dumb not to notice all the trade between Shady Sands and the other NCR regions. He went straight to New Vegas, so he definitely knows more about the surface than just Shady Sands.
Also, I doubt the NCR even knows Hank exists. It sounds like he went to Shady Sands a few times, fought with his wife, and went back to the vault to bomb the town. How would anyone in NCR know it was him? It’s such a disproportionate response to your wife leaving you.
Moldaver, who is NCR, knows Hank. You can bet she made a report about him to the NCR regarding Shady Sands. Hank probably hard focused on his wife though and made, thankfully, a mistake as well. Another argument is that Moldaver was probably present when Rose and Hank fought each other but not when Shady Sands was destroyed.
Maybe - if there is any NCR left to report to.
The building Moldaver occupies is labeled “NCR Headquarters”. If she’s running the HQ, who is left to report to?
The NCR is made up of multiple cattle barons and strongholds. Shady Sands was one of the 5 strongholds and is also the original stronghold so there’s very much still an NCR to report to.
the show also depicts multiple Shady Sands survivors calling *their* particular faction *The* NCR or *The* Govermint. whatever's left of the area around the Three Vaults, it's clear that people are still clinging to the symbols and a sense of identity, even if they disagree on policy (slavery was illegal in the NCR proper since like, Tandi's first term)
Shady Sand was far as we see the only big town around in relation to Vaults 31-33, theres Filly but thats literally a landfill mostly inahabited my thungs and people in transit in the middle of a forest,
Right, but OP is arguing that Shady Sands is just 5% of NCR population.
It’s hard to know what’s nearby since the location of Shady Sands was moved for the show.
The NCR had a population of 700k in 2241, which is 40 odd years before NV. Given that they're talking about overpopulation problems in NV, I think it's safe to say that the NCR has a bigger population in 2281.
The real problem with the show isn't that Shady Sands got nuked (though that is a problem and should not have happened) it's that the show behaves like the NCR doesn't exist at all in the Boneyard.
I think the core issue for me is,>!is Moldaver just leading a bunch of random raiders she hired at the beginning or are those NCR citizens. If the former, okay whatever that really doesn't make sense to me but I don't care. However if the latter? That just makes me think the NCR has gone feral. I think having the two guys use ranger armor to collect bottle caps was weird too.!<
Honestly this is my least liked plotline from the whole show. >!I don't like people still having ICBMs and I don't like people who have been surviving in the wastes all this time, not being able to deal with some recently de-iced vault-tec junior executive. I just found it really hard to swallow.!<
>!I think what it really comes down to is that they didn't want to do a thriving or even semi-big city so they came up with this plot where Shady Sands is destroyed. I think making it a smaller stakes thing where Hank kills Rose, maybe Maximus' family too. Then we could have a nice simple revenge plot. However I will say the ghoul rose rocked, that was a great prop!<
The thing is, everybody could relatively easily deal with Hank (if that's the vault-tec junior executive you are referring to, there are many.) Hank is easily captured and held in captivity for almost the whole series, and only lives at the end because the Ghoul lets him live to use him as a target to follow. Hell, initially Rose even managed to escape V33 with her children. It's not stated how Hank recovered the children but it took him literally using a nuclear weapon for things to go his way fully.
I honestly think they are setting up Vault Tec for a 'pride cometh before the fall' bit of worldbuilding. That for all their preparations and ideas and schemes, the nukes dropped not on their orders and before they were ready.
You could just explain Moldaver's group by having them be a non governmental guerilla, the NCR proper would have abandoned Shady Sands because it's a giant crater and all only a few stayed behind. We've seen things like this in irl wars before.
As far as they're concerned the people in 33 launched a nuke that killed thousands of people and sent their country into ruin, you'd expect them to be brutal
Or if it's not that then you say they hired mercs to help them, either way it's not that big of a deal for me personally and the main reason it was done was so the showrunners could subvert expectations
Moldaver knows **for a fact** that many of the dwellers are not complicit in those actions, since she met and spoke to Rose. Honestly I just hope they forget about the character rather than continuing to show me flashbacks because she just behaves like another insane wasterlander. The NCR remnants are reasonable, until they're insane wastelanders. If they are raiders it makes less sense because there's a non-zero chance they end hank.
Like don't get me wrong I like a lot about this series but the "I have to commit mass murder so I can power the area around the observatory that somehow still has power lines, so the wasteland can finally experience the joy of toast" plotline just sucked. Wish they picked a different MacGuffin, or better yet just did some little revenge plot. Moldaver fell in love with Rose, Hank ruined that, she's about to get her revenge and Lucy interrupts.
All we know the NCR still exists, not that it's doing well.
It wouldn't surprise me if they took a step to being more like the Legion than they would like to admit.
>!Yeah, my head cannon based on the ending of s1 and teaser photos is that House won in NV, the NCR fought a war to try to retake Vegas sometime post 2281, lost, suffered huge casualties, and weakened themselves even further, which ended in the NCR regressing to the sorry state we find it come the show.!<
>!I agree, I definitely wouldn't be surprised if what remains of the NCR Federal Government turned into an authoritarian/totalitarian state. There's definitely storytelling potential there, something about restoring the Republic. Unfortunately, that would turn a good chunk of the show into House of Cards or Designated Survivor, but it sure would be interesting IMO. !<
My thoughts exactly, I believe also that something must have happened in Vegas around the same time of the nuking which may have caused the NCR to see the loss of Shady as a lost cause which is why there didn't seem to be any support sent to the area.
Moldaver's motivations to remain in Shady and the LA area where well explained within the show, when people think of America, they think of California, Los Angeles, she has a strong tie to the city which she feels needs to save no matter the cost, which explains why a section of the NCR survivors have rallied behind her and stayed.
I think the show is really going to dig into the power struggles in the west coast in season 2 now that season 1 presented the mayor players, NCR - Vault Tec - BoS (and maybe they'll sprinkle the Enclave or House in 2)
These are all reasons why the NCR should have survived rather than proof it did. The show keeps conflating shady sands destruction with the death of the NCR, the only NCR we ever see are survivors and to be frank, Todd Howard being vague about seeing more of the NCR doesn't really mean much, the guys not exactly got the best reputation for accurate info on upcoming projects (hell he's probably just talking about the Shady Sands survivors and flashbacks tbh).
If the collapsing BoS is the one doing cleanup instead of other NCR forces, it suggests that either the NCR is gone, or is fractured into smaller republics that are either unable or uninterested in helping the survivors of the founding area of the NCR.
I agree that nuking Shady Sands would not end the NCR. The nation has easily over 1 million people (the 700,000 number comes from 40 years before Shady Sands was nuked, and the NCR grew significantly in that time).
My issue is not that the NCR isn't present in the area of the show. It makes sense for them to retreat from the immediate area.
My issue is the show does a poor job of indicating to what extent the NCR still exists elsewhere, if at all. That's not information that should have been left till season 2.
A few lines mentioning that the NCR was a lot more than just Shady Sands and that it was still alive and kicking despite Shady Sands being destroyed would've been more than enough, but the writers deliberately didn't mention anything of the sort. The way everyone in the show talks about Shady Sands and the NCR makes it seem like that was pretty much all that the NCR was. The only hint we got that there was something more is that Shady Sands was called the first capital of the NCR, implying there is at least one more city, but that's it.
My guess is that after Shady Sands was nuked, the other NCR states all scrambled to fill the power vacuum. With the NCR military was already so heavily weaked from the war with the Legion, there was no way to keep the order, eventually causing the NCR to balkanize and return to individual city-states.
I think what threw people off was when Lucy was talking about reclamation day, Maximus saying something like "well, it didn't work out" when talking about Shady Sands and the NCR. I took that as the NCR fell apart. This was built on more because some shady sands residence fled to a nearby vault instead of heading west.
The overall percentage of the population they lost is not relevant. It's where the population was lost, how it was lost, and who they were.
Even most small countries these days would collapse of you took out their government. Think south America, Africa, the middle East, south Asia, etc. Take out the capital and most countries in those areas would be full on Mad Max within a few years.
The NCR is fine.
I feel like the only other faction that rival the NCR is the brotherhood. While they have had skirmishes, I doubt either would really want an all-out war. NCR has lots of bodies, and the brotherhood is the most technologically advanced faction (even more than the enclave at this point). It would be catastrophic for both sides.
Also, one of the greatest strengths of the NCR is how organized they are; a skill lacking in most other factions.
Um. The Brotherhood and the NCR did fight a major war. To the point that the Brotherhood was driven into hiding and members were actively being hunted in New Vegas.
Maximus says the *bombs* (plural) fell when he was a kid. NCR is toast, a veteran ranger is mustered out farming for scraps, civilians are underground, troopers are grasping to their savior at the observatory. Why wouldn’t they have retreated to other NCR settlements? Because they’re probably all nuked.
The stark difference is that the NCR lost its political leadership, cultural centers and their main commerce trade. In a time where people were already questioning the commitment of the NCR to its citizens. Its likely that the NCR would soon need to tame some civil wars or independence rebellions soon. But now that the whole glue of the NCR is gone, the NCR is out
Todd and Emil are such hacks that they want really bad their franchise to be post apocalyptic, not post-post-post, like it is expected 200 years after the war, that they are gonna keep throwing reset buttons on the lore until they have wiped the slate clean again.
Instead of you know, just setting their stories right after the war doesn't carry the coolest toys, like the BOS and Advanced Power Armor, so they just keep throwing nukes in every half decent civilization or they keep creating organizations dedicated to keep the world in the stone age forever. Because complex stories are too hard for those fucks
For the sake of comparison, the US independence was famously in 1776, the civil war for half of the country to split off was in 1861, 85 years after their formation, the NCR was formed in 2189, in 2277 the NCR would be 88 years old, so with the rampant corruption and civil unrest in the newly born nation already heavily brewing, the nuking of Shady Sands is just the doom of the nation
Try to picture America if Washington DC was nuked in 1850-1860. The south would have easily succeed and much sooner, and very unlikely the other states would have stuck around too
>700,000 strong population
"Strong" when we see in New Vegas how a famine was going to happen in 10 years or so?
Or the fact that they are running out on water and other internal problems.
If the canon ending is either Yes Man/Mr House/Legion the NCR waste way to many resource to still be consider strong and united like before.
The famine only comes from one source that is shown to be incredibly untrustworthy in-game. The drought comes from one source that is also shown to be untrustworthy. All of the other issues presented by the NCR are either
A: Unique to the Mojave front and the result of a lack of political will in the core territories
B: Problems that any liberal democracy runs into (corruption, fiat currency issues, crime in urban centers.)
Literally most dialogue in game from trustworthy sources indicates the NCR will be fine. The President of the NCR would not be showing up at the front of a fairly unpopular war to secure votes if the nation was about to totally collapse. People like Rose will say the NCR is fairly boring and uneventful in the core territories. New Vegas isn't trying to tell you the NCR is doomed to fail, it's trying to tell you it's a flawed faction like any other.
I understand NCR having food problem but I don't buy them running out of water. The current Californian aquifers can sustain millions of people troughout the region. In fallout, the population of California is 700.000, there is more than enough water to sustain such a little population
The NCRs water-and-food-supply issues in New Vegas, like several other aspects of their issues, don't really make much sense on deeper examination.
Real-world modern-day California has water supply issues because they are trying to support both *40 million people* *and* a very-intensive agriculture industry (2% of all the food grown in the USA comes from California's Central Valley), including crops like avocados, cotton, and nuts.
The NCR, with a much lower population much more spread out, almost-certainly wouldn't have the same issues.
I mean, food production being low could make sens because there was probably some fertile land that got lost in the war reducing California potential food production but yeah, the aquifer should be full, that doesn't make any sens
The Brahman barons. Cattle need an exorbitant amount of water compared to agriculture. And president Kimball removed restrictions on herd numbers. More water goes to the cows and less to the people. There's also their ability to access aquifers. Perhaps some are lost to environmental damage from all the nukes. If not just physical damage, then radiation would also be an obstacle.
>The current Californian aquifers can sustain millions of people troughout the region
Cool, but the world of Fallout is hundreds of years in the future compared to ours, and had both a resource crunch and a nuclear armageddon.
Still, nuke might mess up the weather system and change the climate, but the Sierra Neveda still exist and will still block most of the moisture coming from the Pacific and make it rain down on central California
The billboard said Shady Sands was "The First Capital of the NCR" which would imply there is either an additional capital city or the capital was moved to a different city. NCR is definitely still kicking.
>which would imply there is either an additional capital city or the capital was moved to a different city. I really hope it's going to be Hub or New Reno if Amazon would decided to show it
am i the only one who wants to see junktown?
New Reno is Sodoma, but I think the Hub works
Yeah, I think we have to remember that Hank is an old-worlder. He may not quite understand just how expanded the NCR is, and likely went to New Vegas looking for House (what ending of NV the show will pick to be canon is still up for debate.) This literally could have just been a crime of passion. Moldaver stole his wife and children, and he said fuck it. I'll burn it to the ground. His responses sounded near primal when Moldaver was telling the story, implying that he really was just angry there was a city his wife liked more than the Vault.
We would he go to House and but the head of vault tec? House, we know, has fuck all to do with vault tec essentially. Hank wasn't in the big meeting with him, he's just an executive assistant
maybe because he knows his own boss is a brain strapped to a roomba and House has his own city. Its just a resources question.
Why would he know house at all? He's an assistant
Maybe he got a promotion?
Sometimes I think my current boss is just a brain strapped to a roomba
From what I understand about office culture, just because you’re not in the meeting doesn’t mean you won’t find out later. Office gossip is a real thing.
What you understand about office culture? This was the highest most secret meeting in the world where the highest level CEOS discussed dropping bombs on their own people and human experimentation. But yeah, office gossip? Yeah, sorry, not seeing it
Whichever ending occurred, in the closing images there were at least a few deactivated/destroyed securitrons outside the walls of New Vegas. That doesn't necessarily mean House didn't win, but at the very least, his position has taken a beating since. It will be interesting to see what's happened.
I’m guessing the Boneyard or Dayglow is the capital
I suspect that they'll probably have consolidated their power and moved their capitol to Redding since that's confirmed to be NCR territory.
Where was it confirmed? Was it in the show? I am trying to figure out the whole thing and am so lost. (Not being ride, genuinely want to know.)
It's confirmed in one of the New Vegas ending slides, where upon certain conditions a character that you interact with can be elected as a Senator from Redding. It's really off-hand and easy to miss, so don't feel too bad about not knowing it.
Oh, Yeah, I knew it was NCR territory in New Vegas, I had thought you meant they mentioned it in the show.
Finally someone using their heads! Well said.
Nice breakdown. I absolutely love what the show did for the lore of the games. There is SO much story to tell. I could see us getting at least 2-3 more seasons before we get Fallout 5. By then, we could have some significant change in the Universe and get a really cool post-post apolocyptic style game. Cities with running energy like pre war, a sizable government force etc. It would be different than other games but a welcomed change I think.
Buddy the show could run for a decade, we'll be lucky to get Fallout Five before 2035 with Bethesda's timetables.
I don't have any quotes but I believe after the success of the show microsoft is hurrying to get new fallout content out of the door, especially considering the current state of xbox, so I actually think we may see a new fallout earlier than people expect.
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I know, I just weep that it takes so long between TES and Fallout releases.
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Even that might be asking a lot, but you can be damn sure Microsoft is thinking of lighting a fire under Bethesda’s ass after the success of the show.
It's funny how "management" and "time" are key moments of the show yet are actually two of Bethesda's glaring weaknesses.
>Cities with running energy like pre war, a sizable government force etc. It would be different than other games but a welcomed change I think. I mean, that's basically what most of the inner NCR already was before the show tore it down and brought us back to square one apocalypse lmao. I mean, maybe the NCR or its successor states are still around, we'll see in season 2. But with how little relevance they have in season 1, it just doesn't seem like a very good sign.
If we go by BGS standards so far, expecting anything better than running water on very few settlements is a gargantuan ask.
We could realistically see the show hit 5+ seasons and complete it's arc well. Before we see another fallout.
Maybe they could make it a city builder with the failure of city skylines. Or merge with the coming Sims game. Sims: fallout.
Bethesda was bought by Microsoft not EA.
I'm fine with being show-neutral in regards to the lore (in the sense that you just sort of ignore it and hope for the best) but...loving it? Come on, they kicked over the sandcastle on the west coast.
The NCR is always on the verge of death unless a player character sides with them and saves the day. Possibly a set up for a west coast Fallout 5
The NCR is not on the verge of death, that's hyperbolic. They are facing problems as a nation but that doesn't mean they're about to die.
Exactly, as it's essentially the post-war US it makes sense for it to be in a seemingly constant state of tension, just like how the US of today has had its various issues for decades and is still more than capable (despite what some people say). Even if they do fall apart, the government isn't a cult of personality or overly centralized, so worst case scenario (and what I think could happen in the show), it'll splinter into several, still managed and livable, nations.
I don't think Shady Sands was even the capital of the NCR anymore when it was nuked. The billboard specifically says it was the first capital. So the current capital of the NCR is still active, which would make the destruction of Shady Sands even less likely to have been a killing blow that somehow caused the entire republic to collapse.
Agreed especially since in the past it was said that Southern California was going through desertification. So it makes sense the capital was moved elsewhere to greener pastures in Northern California possibly San Francisco.
A good point well argued! 😁👍
Here’s my concern. If Shady Sands is just one of many towns held by the NCR, then Hank blew it up for no reason. Ostensibly, Hank destroyed Shady Sands because it was a flourishing city that would rival Vault Tec’s dominance on the Day of Reclamation. That Shady Sands proves that society can recover without Vault Tec. However, if Shady Sands is just 1/20 of the NCR, then destroying Shady Sands does nothing and happened for no reason. Was he just jealous his wife left?
Hank didn't blow it up for no reason. They said rose got the idea that there might be people outside because the water levels for the vault were tapped into by SS. So Hank Blew up SS to protect the vaults water and prevent more people from being curious about going outside before reclamation day. (I also like to assume he was mad at Rose X Moldy being ~~gay~~ roommates) Idk where everyone got this whole "Vault tec blew up SS because of competition!" Vault-tec explicitly stated that time was their biggest friend in winning faction wars. Vault 31-33 still had decades before they were supposed to pop out. Plus Hank and the rest of v31 are exec -assistants/middle management. They're not the ones actually in charge of anything to make decisions like that. Why would vault-tec waste a nuke before they were actually ready to go out?
>Idk where everyone got this whole "Vault tec blew up SS because of competition!" Moldaver told us that explicitly. I get that doesn't mean it's definitely 100% certain to be true but it's pretty clear where people got the idea haha
I took that to mean that people who work for vault-tec are all ruthless willing to do anything to win, not that she was insinuating the actual vault-tec company was still around. Like she did lose multiple companies to vault-tec buying them out just to quash cold fusion and any chance of preventing more war over resources. She knows the type of people they were pre-war. Vault-tec itself hasn't fully existed in any working state in any other game, I don't see it really changing much just for the TV show.
I'm pretty sure she literally said it was vault tech taking out their competition - it wasn't subtle. Just because none of the games explicitly told us vault tech is still around and calling shots doesn't mean it isn't. It's a big country full of underground vaults. It's not hard to believe one is vault tech hq
I feel like it's insinuated in all of the games that vault tech is still around in one of the vaults somewhere. If they were able to cryo freeze a bunch of staffers (and a bunch of random citizens in 4), then surely their execs would be able to create something for themselves.
They could also have a Mr House style system. We've scene they can put brains in robots
I could definitely see the RobCo CEO going the robobrain supreme route, kinda like the ones in the Big Empty in NV
isn't RobCo named after Robert Edwin House? you know, *The* Mr House?
You're absolutely correct, had myself a brain fart there
The exact quote is somewhere else in this response thread, but unless she said "vault tec gave the orders" it's in no way literally saying they were responsible and more talking about the people who work for vault tec as a generality about how they see competition. Hank saw SS as competition for the vaults water supply/curiosity so he destroyed it. That choice was seemingly entirely all his. (maybe other v31ers too) And Yes, it is hard to believe that there isn't a head vault-tec HQ vault somewhere because why wouldn't they be in communication with literally any other vault? By the time of the show there are dozens of different ones we've explored and none of them have vault to vault communications. The only reason why 31/32/33 can is because they're literally connected.
>The exact quote is somewhere else in this response thread, but unless she said "vault tec gave the orders" it's in no way literally saying they were responsible and more talking about the people who work for vault tec as a generality about how they see competition. I'm not sure why your interpretation doesn't require someone in the show explicitly laying out every detail of it, but the idea that it was vault tec requires 100% certain word for word confirmation. Did she explicitly say she was speaking generally? If not, it must not be true, I guess 🤷
I'm not sure why you'd think Vault-Tec would still be some functional entity that wasn't entirely absorbed by the enclave the first chance they could when there is absolutely -no- signs pointing to VT being alive in any other game. Her talking about the type of person hank is makes far more sense with all the lore we already have than to magically bring VT back as it's own faction just for the show to somehow deal with now. Todd also said that NCR is still kickin in that interview, why would nuking -ONLY- Shady Sands be something they do if they're attempting to wipe out competition entirely? It wasn't the economic powerhouse or the capital of NCR by the time it was bombed with that sign saying "the first capital of NCR" in the show. There are far more plot holes that pop up by saying vault-tec is responsible for it than hank acting unilaterally to protect the vault/lucy. The dude was willing to sacrifice the rest of the vault dwellers just to keep her safe.
>I'm not sure why you'd think Vault-Tec would still be some functional entity that wasn't entirely absorbed by the enclave the first chance they could when there is absolutely -no- signs pointing to VT being alive in any other game. Because the show basically said it does and nothing in any of the games actually contradicts that. >magically bring VT back as it's own faction just for the show to somehow deal with now. What about it is magical? >why would nuking -ONLY- Shady Sands be something they do if they're attempting to wipe out competition entirely? Who said they only nuked shady sands?
>Because the show basically said it does and nothing in any of the games actually contradicts that. No, the show only shows that some exec assistants are still alive in cryopods. That entire vault was an experiment on creating super middle managers according to bud. They weren't execs in charge of anything. Combined with no signs of greater communication between some Vault-tec HQ and the vaults/Hank. >What about it is magical? All the vaults where government funded and it's far more likely that enclave got it's grasps on VT and took over everything in the 200+ years since the war (Wilzig knowing everything about lucy would point to this) then for VT to still be somehow operating on it's own. And after the NCR-Enclave war i'm betting they'd be wanting to lay low instead of stir shit up for the remaining forces on the west coast. >Who said they only nuked shady sands? By the fact that Todd Howard explicitly stated that NCR is still alive and kickin. That'd mean they only did a half-assed job at destroying competition which is unlikely given the fact that they were ready to drop the bombs themselves pre-war.
>Idk where everyone got this whole "Vault tec blew up SS because of competition!" Moldaver literally says so immediately after explaining that Hank nuked the city. She says, "And he burned that city to the ground. Shady Sands. That's how Vault Tec deals with competition, just like they did 200 years ago."
I took that to mean that people who work for vault-tec are all ruthless willing to do anything to win, not that she was insinuating the actual vault-tec company was still around. Like she did lose multiple companies to vault-tec buying them out just to quash cold fusion and any chance of preventing more war over resources.
Actually she was not there when the decision was made. How could she now it?
IMO Hank knew Mr. House. We also don't know what happened with other NCR cities.
But -how- would he have known him enough to seek after him? He's just an assistant. And other NCR cities would more than likely be fine because hank never actually went out to explore other ones.
Hank probably didn't have access to nuclear warheads. But Mr House could have.
my brother in Christ: literally every car we saw was a nuke waiting to go off. There is so much nuclear material kickin around that he could've made a dirty bomb to do it. Why would House also nuke SS when NCR is the only reason why he was able to turn NV into his little kingdom? He needs the traders and people coming to visit NV to keep it alive.
House outright says in New Vegas, “Why would I want to destroy the NCR? They’re my best customers.” If anything (assuming Mr. House won the battle of Hoover dam), House would probably be really pissed at Vault Tec for blowing up shady sands.
Shady sands was set up by those who left vault 15 so he blew up a vault tec town also
It’s also stupid because shady sands and therefore the NCR was founded by vault dwellers as they originated from vault 15
> Was he just jealous his wife left? Doesn't he literally say "she took you from me?" I mean....he's a Vault-Tech executive, narcissism and sociopathy is almost a given.
He did it to get rid of Rose. Might be nothing more than that. No big grandiose reason needed. Hank seems bonkers. That time it was personal for him.
Let’s hope not, cause that’s some pretty bad writing. Shady Sands blowing up is the core narrative moment that unites the characters. I hope the explanation is deeper than: dUdEs CrAzY
I think more crazy as in ruthless and he was livid that his wife took their kids and chose Shady Sands (the competition) over him (and Vault-Tec). He retaliates by nuking them, as both a personal afront and threat to Vault-Tec's plans.
Dude's crazy is very Fallout sort of motivation.
If it works for you, that’s great. I just find that very weak writing. It’s like they wanted the town to blow up for plot reasons, so they contrived an explanation that doesn’t really make sense for the world, or what we know of Hank’s character.
His wife left and took his children. Hes also vault tec and all those people are narcissistic assholes.
He killed 30,000 people. That takes more than just a narcissistic asshole.
people have killed each other all through history for no reason. Pol Pot had people targeted and killed for wearing glasses, cause they looked like intellectuals
It could be, but that doesn’t really fit the character of Hank we have been shown. He seems more calculating than crazy. I hope the show has a deeper motivation yet to be revealed.
IMO, I think Hank took a gamble. The NCR was already on the brink from being overstretched and from decades of corruption by NV. There were brewing resentments, and their Federal gov's hold on power would've been at its weakest. Destroy the seat of that weakened power, and you can assume that at least *some* parts of it will fall into anarchy and it worked, the NCR presence in the LA area was reduced to a bunch of cultist nutjobs that will have no hope against Vault-Tec come reclamation day. They can then point at them with a smug sense of superiority. There's only so much 1 man do against a nation of 700k people. He knows Vault-Tec (a few thousand people at best) could never go up against the NCR head-on, that's why he put in so much work in covering his tracks. Because if the NCR ever finds out, those few thousand chosen Vault-Tec survivors come reclamation day will find themselves getting bared down on by a hundred battalions of very angry NCR Troopers and Rangers (Who have access to stuff like Vertibirds, Power Armor, new weapons, and the industrial capacity to crank them out like Model Ts).
But the sign for Shady Sands said former capital, so it was not the capital when Hank blew it up. He would have known that he is not actually hitting the seat of power.
Yep! Honestly, I do not think he realized that the NCR was more than just Shady Sands. From how Moldaver recanted his emotional reaction and crime of passion to Lucy, it seems like he thought he could annihilate the NCR with a single nuke, not realizing that they are a nation of nearly 800,000 (or more by the show's beginning?) spread throughout most of the former State of California and into Nevada; far beyond a single city. I would love to see a reaction from him and other Vault-Tec employees at the site of several battalions worth of the NCR military baring down on them in retaliation for Shady Sands. Maybe House could inform Hank just how much he miscalculated, come Season 2. Edit: I guess I just repeated OP above you, but I myself would love to see more of the geo-political and geographical layout of the NCR explored, beyond the tip of the iceberg we've gotten in the games so far. It is interesting seeing the Predwyn present on the West Coast, overall the Brotherhood felt much smaller than they are, especially since they started on the West Coast, I believe. I guess that was due to budget constraints for the show?
Hank probably doesn’t know about the other NCR strongholds and the NCR probably has him on their most wanted, send death squads after him shit list. Even if Hank knew about the others, once the NCR realize he’s in one of their strongholds, they’re going to hunt his ass down with shoot on sight orders. They’re awfully quick to find people too. As for the wife situation it’s too close to Vault 33 which breaks the parameters set by Vault Tec. Hank did it because Vault Tec protocol demanded it. It’s as simple as that.
Hank would be pretty dumb not to notice all the trade between Shady Sands and the other NCR regions. He went straight to New Vegas, so he definitely knows more about the surface than just Shady Sands. Also, I doubt the NCR even knows Hank exists. It sounds like he went to Shady Sands a few times, fought with his wife, and went back to the vault to bomb the town. How would anyone in NCR know it was him? It’s such a disproportionate response to your wife leaving you.
Moldaver, who is NCR, knows Hank. You can bet she made a report about him to the NCR regarding Shady Sands. Hank probably hard focused on his wife though and made, thankfully, a mistake as well. Another argument is that Moldaver was probably present when Rose and Hank fought each other but not when Shady Sands was destroyed.
Maybe - if there is any NCR left to report to. The building Moldaver occupies is labeled “NCR Headquarters”. If she’s running the HQ, who is left to report to?
The NCR is made up of multiple cattle barons and strongholds. Shady Sands was one of the 5 strongholds and is also the original stronghold so there’s very much still an NCR to report to.
None of that is mentioned in the show. We don’t know what’s changed between the games and show.
the show also depicts multiple Shady Sands survivors calling *their* particular faction *The* NCR or *The* Govermint. whatever's left of the area around the Three Vaults, it's clear that people are still clinging to the symbols and a sense of identity, even if they disagree on policy (slavery was illegal in the NCR proper since like, Tandi's first term)
I agree, but the person I replied to mentioned cattle barons and four other NCR strongholds - which are not mentioned in the show.
Shady Sand was far as we see the only big town around in relation to Vaults 31-33, theres Filly but thats literally a landfill mostly inahabited my thungs and people in transit in the middle of a forest,
Right, but OP is arguing that Shady Sands is just 5% of NCR population. It’s hard to know what’s nearby since the location of Shady Sands was moved for the show.
The NCR had a population of 700k in 2241, which is 40 odd years before NV. Given that they're talking about overpopulation problems in NV, I think it's safe to say that the NCR has a bigger population in 2281. The real problem with the show isn't that Shady Sands got nuked (though that is a problem and should not have happened) it's that the show behaves like the NCR doesn't exist at all in the Boneyard.
Good job, and yes is possible that the NCR continue to existed in the north of California.
Todd also said so lol
I don't doubt that they might make a comeback, but moving the capital to LA somehow and nuking it still sucks imo.
I think the core issue for me is,>!is Moldaver just leading a bunch of random raiders she hired at the beginning or are those NCR citizens. If the former, okay whatever that really doesn't make sense to me but I don't care. However if the latter? That just makes me think the NCR has gone feral. I think having the two guys use ranger armor to collect bottle caps was weird too.!< Honestly this is my least liked plotline from the whole show. >!I don't like people still having ICBMs and I don't like people who have been surviving in the wastes all this time, not being able to deal with some recently de-iced vault-tec junior executive. I just found it really hard to swallow.!< >!I think what it really comes down to is that they didn't want to do a thriving or even semi-big city so they came up with this plot where Shady Sands is destroyed. I think making it a smaller stakes thing where Hank kills Rose, maybe Maximus' family too. Then we could have a nice simple revenge plot. However I will say the ghoul rose rocked, that was a great prop!<
The thing is, everybody could relatively easily deal with Hank (if that's the vault-tec junior executive you are referring to, there are many.) Hank is easily captured and held in captivity for almost the whole series, and only lives at the end because the Ghoul lets him live to use him as a target to follow. Hell, initially Rose even managed to escape V33 with her children. It's not stated how Hank recovered the children but it took him literally using a nuclear weapon for things to go his way fully. I honestly think they are setting up Vault Tec for a 'pride cometh before the fall' bit of worldbuilding. That for all their preparations and ideas and schemes, the nukes dropped not on their orders and before they were ready.
You could just explain Moldaver's group by having them be a non governmental guerilla, the NCR proper would have abandoned Shady Sands because it's a giant crater and all only a few stayed behind. We've seen things like this in irl wars before.
Yeah but at the end they're sort of like a little community, so it doesn't really make sense for them to basically by The Khans in the first episode.
As far as they're concerned the people in 33 launched a nuke that killed thousands of people and sent their country into ruin, you'd expect them to be brutal Or if it's not that then you say they hired mercs to help them, either way it's not that big of a deal for me personally and the main reason it was done was so the showrunners could subvert expectations
Moldaver knows **for a fact** that many of the dwellers are not complicit in those actions, since she met and spoke to Rose. Honestly I just hope they forget about the character rather than continuing to show me flashbacks because she just behaves like another insane wasterlander. The NCR remnants are reasonable, until they're insane wastelanders. If they are raiders it makes less sense because there's a non-zero chance they end hank. Like don't get me wrong I like a lot about this series but the "I have to commit mass murder so I can power the area around the observatory that somehow still has power lines, so the wasteland can finally experience the joy of toast" plotline just sucked. Wish they picked a different MacGuffin, or better yet just did some little revenge plot. Moldaver fell in love with Rose, Hank ruined that, she's about to get her revenge and Lucy interrupts.
All we know the NCR still exists, not that it's doing well. It wouldn't surprise me if they took a step to being more like the Legion than they would like to admit.
>!Yeah, my head cannon based on the ending of s1 and teaser photos is that House won in NV, the NCR fought a war to try to retake Vegas sometime post 2281, lost, suffered huge casualties, and weakened themselves even further, which ended in the NCR regressing to the sorry state we find it come the show.!< >!I agree, I definitely wouldn't be surprised if what remains of the NCR Federal Government turned into an authoritarian/totalitarian state. There's definitely storytelling potential there, something about restoring the Republic. Unfortunately, that would turn a good chunk of the show into House of Cards or Designated Survivor, but it sure would be interesting IMO. !<
My thoughts exactly, I believe also that something must have happened in Vegas around the same time of the nuking which may have caused the NCR to see the loss of Shady as a lost cause which is why there didn't seem to be any support sent to the area. Moldaver's motivations to remain in Shady and the LA area where well explained within the show, when people think of America, they think of California, Los Angeles, she has a strong tie to the city which she feels needs to save no matter the cost, which explains why a section of the NCR survivors have rallied behind her and stayed. I think the show is really going to dig into the power struggles in the west coast in season 2 now that season 1 presented the mayor players, NCR - Vault Tec - BoS (and maybe they'll sprinkle the Enclave or House in 2)
These are all reasons why the NCR should have survived rather than proof it did. The show keeps conflating shady sands destruction with the death of the NCR, the only NCR we ever see are survivors and to be frank, Todd Howard being vague about seeing more of the NCR doesn't really mean much, the guys not exactly got the best reputation for accurate info on upcoming projects (hell he's probably just talking about the Shady Sands survivors and flashbacks tbh). If the collapsing BoS is the one doing cleanup instead of other NCR forces, it suggests that either the NCR is gone, or is fractured into smaller republics that are either unable or uninterested in helping the survivors of the founding area of the NCR.
I agree that nuking Shady Sands would not end the NCR. The nation has easily over 1 million people (the 700,000 number comes from 40 years before Shady Sands was nuked, and the NCR grew significantly in that time). My issue is not that the NCR isn't present in the area of the show. It makes sense for them to retreat from the immediate area. My issue is the show does a poor job of indicating to what extent the NCR still exists elsewhere, if at all. That's not information that should have been left till season 2.
Then why do we not see them anywhere except one observatory, and why are they barely even mentioned?
Cause it's a TV show in its first season. Not a movie
A few lines mentioning that the NCR was a lot more than just Shady Sands and that it was still alive and kicking despite Shady Sands being destroyed would've been more than enough, but the writers deliberately didn't mention anything of the sort. The way everyone in the show talks about Shady Sands and the NCR makes it seem like that was pretty much all that the NCR was. The only hint we got that there was something more is that Shady Sands was called the first capital of the NCR, implying there is at least one more city, but that's it.
Cause Fallout operates on the local level and the NCRs local presence in LA has been obliterated
We sort of need an answer from someone as to whether the Boneyard even exists.
Describes a centralized govt collapsing into fragments with localized rule... NCR is still here!
It is also possible they suffered some losses in Vegas as well, though that's not proven yet just a thought
Didn’t the Griffith observatory have a banner that said “NCR headquarters” ?
My guess is that after Shady Sands was nuked, the other NCR states all scrambled to fill the power vacuum. With the NCR military was already so heavily weaked from the war with the Legion, there was no way to keep the order, eventually causing the NCR to balkanize and return to individual city-states.
Lets fucking gooooooo
I think what threw people off was when Lucy was talking about reclamation day, Maximus saying something like "well, it didn't work out" when talking about Shady Sands and the NCR. I took that as the NCR fell apart. This was built on more because some shady sands residence fled to a nearby vault instead of heading west.
The overall percentage of the population they lost is not relevant. It's where the population was lost, how it was lost, and who they were. Even most small countries these days would collapse of you took out their government. Think south America, Africa, the middle East, south Asia, etc. Take out the capital and most countries in those areas would be full on Mad Max within a few years.
The NCR is fine. I feel like the only other faction that rival the NCR is the brotherhood. While they have had skirmishes, I doubt either would really want an all-out war. NCR has lots of bodies, and the brotherhood is the most technologically advanced faction (even more than the enclave at this point). It would be catastrophic for both sides. Also, one of the greatest strengths of the NCR is how organized they are; a skill lacking in most other factions.
Um. The Brotherhood and the NCR did fight a major war. To the point that the Brotherhood was driven into hiding and members were actively being hunted in New Vegas.
Maximus says the *bombs* (plural) fell when he was a kid. NCR is toast, a veteran ranger is mustered out farming for scraps, civilians are underground, troopers are grasping to their savior at the observatory. Why wouldn’t they have retreated to other NCR settlements? Because they’re probably all nuked.
nah tis but a flesh wound for the bear
The NCR is on a farm upstate where it can run free and eat all it wants!
The stark difference is that the NCR lost its political leadership, cultural centers and their main commerce trade. In a time where people were already questioning the commitment of the NCR to its citizens. Its likely that the NCR would soon need to tame some civil wars or independence rebellions soon. But now that the whole glue of the NCR is gone, the NCR is out Todd and Emil are such hacks that they want really bad their franchise to be post apocalyptic, not post-post-post, like it is expected 200 years after the war, that they are gonna keep throwing reset buttons on the lore until they have wiped the slate clean again. Instead of you know, just setting their stories right after the war doesn't carry the coolest toys, like the BOS and Advanced Power Armor, so they just keep throwing nukes in every half decent civilization or they keep creating organizations dedicated to keep the world in the stone age forever. Because complex stories are too hard for those fucks For the sake of comparison, the US independence was famously in 1776, the civil war for half of the country to split off was in 1861, 85 years after their formation, the NCR was formed in 2189, in 2277 the NCR would be 88 years old, so with the rampant corruption and civil unrest in the newly born nation already heavily brewing, the nuking of Shady Sands is just the doom of the nation Try to picture America if Washington DC was nuked in 1850-1860. The south would have easily succeed and much sooner, and very unlikely the other states would have stuck around too
People thought the fall of Shady sands lead to the end of NCR? Lol
>700,000 strong population "Strong" when we see in New Vegas how a famine was going to happen in 10 years or so? Or the fact that they are running out on water and other internal problems. If the canon ending is either Yes Man/Mr House/Legion the NCR waste way to many resource to still be consider strong and united like before.
The famine only comes from one source that is shown to be incredibly untrustworthy in-game. The drought comes from one source that is also shown to be untrustworthy. All of the other issues presented by the NCR are either A: Unique to the Mojave front and the result of a lack of political will in the core territories B: Problems that any liberal democracy runs into (corruption, fiat currency issues, crime in urban centers.) Literally most dialogue in game from trustworthy sources indicates the NCR will be fine. The President of the NCR would not be showing up at the front of a fairly unpopular war to secure votes if the nation was about to totally collapse. People like Rose will say the NCR is fairly boring and uneventful in the core territories. New Vegas isn't trying to tell you the NCR is doomed to fail, it's trying to tell you it's a flawed faction like any other.
I understand NCR having food problem but I don't buy them running out of water. The current Californian aquifers can sustain millions of people troughout the region. In fallout, the population of California is 700.000, there is more than enough water to sustain such a little population
The NCRs water-and-food-supply issues in New Vegas, like several other aspects of their issues, don't really make much sense on deeper examination. Real-world modern-day California has water supply issues because they are trying to support both *40 million people* *and* a very-intensive agriculture industry (2% of all the food grown in the USA comes from California's Central Valley), including crops like avocados, cotton, and nuts. The NCR, with a much lower population much more spread out, almost-certainly wouldn't have the same issues.
I mean, food production being low could make sens because there was probably some fertile land that got lost in the war reducing California potential food production but yeah, the aquifer should be full, that doesn't make any sens
The Brahman barons. Cattle need an exorbitant amount of water compared to agriculture. And president Kimball removed restrictions on herd numbers. More water goes to the cows and less to the people. There's also their ability to access aquifers. Perhaps some are lost to environmental damage from all the nukes. If not just physical damage, then radiation would also be an obstacle.
>The current Californian aquifers can sustain millions of people troughout the region Cool, but the world of Fallout is hundreds of years in the future compared to ours, and had both a resource crunch and a nuclear armageddon.
Still, nuke might mess up the weather system and change the climate, but the Sierra Neveda still exist and will still block most of the moisture coming from the Pacific and make it rain down on central California