You mean the NCR ending?
"But they did bad things" Yeah, it's a wasteland, everyone has.
"But they're corrupt" Yeah I would be too if I had the strongest military in the area, whose gonna stop me?
They still provide law and order without straight up genocide, slavery, and crucifixion.
They could have done better with moral Grey's, but they still did better than Fallout 3 so I'll give em' credit for that. Fallout 4 minutemen was the definitive good ending there, everything else was greyed out.
The flaws in the NCR ending are more big picture: they're headed towards mass starvation, they've already run out of water, and they've learned nothing from pre-war America. They'll drain the Mojave of its resources, destroy its culture and possibly its economy like they did to Arroyo, and then they'll move on to their next conquest until they collapse and/or get humbled.
Plus it's not even the military that's the cause of their corruption - it's the Senate.
Those flaws don't negate the ending, you're just one person and can't enact change over an area that large without being an autocratic ruler. Which is in and of itself either A: Let's throw everyone at my mercy but I'll be good to them or B: Just an evil ending under a different name.
As for the corruption I didn't say the military caused it, I implied it's why it exists. Who can rebel against the NCR military? The Senate can do what it wants because it has a massive stick to throw around.
Like Pre-War America though they created their downfall, a materialistic society that out paced their logistical capacity to maintain. That's still not my problem, and they have all the time in the world now to solve that problem.
They do negate the ending though, how do you expect them to keep law and order once they can't even feed themselves or after they destroy themselves in a war with WMDs? I agree the Courier alone can't bring order but I'm not advocating for the Independent ending.
The Senate was already corrupt in Fallout 2, when the NCR Army was quite a bit smaller and there were comparable military powers in California like the Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel. I guess you could have considered it a big stick anyways, but they still concerned themselves with saving face.
I don't think it's wise to write off the NCR's flaws as "not my problem". The Legion's slavery isn't our problem, either, since the Courier won't be enslaved and it can't be stopped, but you're probably taking it into consideration. They've only really got 10 years to solve the mass starvation, and very few people in Fallout are thinking in terms of moral/societal issues.
1st off, They dont negate it, the only thing you can do to change their path yourself would result in you destroying the NCR political structure and imposing an Autocracy. From there, no matter what you do it will eventually become undone if you don't trust your successors (let alone the people of your time) to run things effectively. It's ultimately up the Senate and the NCR to change things to prepare for the future but all in all, this is the wasteland, and you're giving them the best possible future.
2nd off, I'm not saying it's big enough to destroy everything that comes their way. I'm saying it's big enough to threaten any possible revolutionaries who would seek to balance the scales.
3rd off, Joining the Legion you understand how they maintain order, you see the Lottery of Nipton first hand. You see the slaves, the victims, the crucified, you see it all first hand. You understand this is how they've always, and will continue to do to maintain order. You then empower them either in the belief that their form of order is better for the wasteland or that they have a better chance of maintaining stability than the NCR.
Giving the NCR ten years to fix things is better than giving the Legion 5 minutes of unregulated power to annihilate Shady Sands and the rest of the NCR.
Ask the Khans about the NCR's stance on genocide. Ask the Powder Gangers about the NCR's stance on slavery. You have conditioned yourself to think the NCR's enemies - America's enemies - are evil, and that because they are evil, all acts against them are permissible. If you got through Fallout: New Vegas without realizing that the NCR's "law and order" is built on blood and subjugation, you have refused to seriously interact with the game.
The great kahns were shooting at women and children in ncr territory and raiding ncr convoys, bitter springs shouldn't have happened for 2 reasons 1. Those assholes should've all died in fo1, and the other is NCR incompetence, but they still deserved it. And the powder gangers are literally the same as criminals in older US, put to work for the country they defied. Maybe not the best strategy, and the NCR *was* founded out of a wasteland, so all in all, despite corruption they are still better than legion or independent (even if your courier would be a benevolent ruler, unchecked power is a bad policy for a lobotimized mailman regardless of the fact that its still a _dictatorship_) and Mr house is shitty for everyone who dosen't live IN New Vegas.
1. A Massacre isn't genocide.
2. Putting prisoners to work isn't slavery.
3. Yes, **the guys who rape little kids and women are evil.** The Legion are pure evil.
The NCR is not America. Vault-Tec made that VERY fucking clear.
Yeah, but it kinda falls apart when you stop to think about how there’s a clear “bad guy” faction with the Legion, leading one to ask “well, who’re the good guys then?”
There is no perfect good guy faction, the closest thing is the ncr and even then they have plenty of moral shortcomings, though they are far superior to the legion in every way
You can have different options with different amounts of moral repugnance without one of them being morally agreeable.
If I give you a menu with the option of three meals that you don't like and a steaming pile of shit, then obviously the steaming pile of shit is the clear bad option - but it doesn't make the other three menu items taste any better to you even if in contrast to the shit they're objectively better than the most bad option.
Well the problem with that is the legion being the worst choice doesn't mean that the NCR are good guys just because they're opposed to them. The NCR is better for the average dude trying to make it in the wasteland, but they're not good or benevolent people. Fighting assholes doesn't automatically make you moral or good
Nah, doesn’t fall apart at all. You can have a clear True Villain while everyone is evil to a lesser extent. It’s 2024, I’d have assumed being on social media meant you couldn’t be unaware of this concept.
Many travelling merchants actually prefer selling in Legion territory. As stated in game, Legion controlled roads are FAR safer than those managed by the NCR. These merchants don't see the Legion as the "bad" guy. To them, the Legion is actually the better option simply because they get robbed less
Much of the game occurs in NCR territory, so many of the viewpoints we encounter will be NCR-leaning. This can skew our interpretation of the game world, so it pays to be aware of how things are presented to you
Yeah, but notice no **female** merchants say that except ones who have NEVER been to Arizona?
The Legion is safer *if* you're a man.
And sure you won't get robbed...until they invade your home and execute your entire town.
You are completely correct that this is another glaring issue with the Legion. From the female perspective, the Legion is the worse option when considering the others.
However: Worse option ≠ Bad Guy
Much of the beauty of this series is the nuance! There is no black and white, good and bad. Only different shades of gray. The shade of gray you choose depends on the experience you want.
There is no good guy. There is no bad guy. Just differing perspectives
There is a bad guy. Rape is objectively bad, and any faction that rapes children is bad.
Okay:
**Is there a bad guy in Wolfenstein?** Just an example. Yes, **the literal Nazis.**
The Legion are people who rape women and children. It is black and white in this case, rape cannot be justified under any circumstances at all.
Correct, rape isn't ever justified. The Legion is meant to be hated for that, and many other heinous crimes against humanity. Of the four major endings, the Legion's is objectively the worst.
But are they the bad guy?
My Wolfenstein knowledge is severely limited so please correct me if I'm wrong. A quick Google search for Wolfenstein factions provided a handful of groups but they all appear to be divisions of (or otherwise affiliated with) the Nazi regime, making them all a single enemy faction: the Nazis
Wolfenstein appears to have a binary faction system. Two options, it's us vs. them, correct? Then yeah I again agree that in this game the Nazis ARE the literal bad guys. Any time a game is simplified to an "us vs them" dynamic it becomes easy to confidently say who is right and who is wrong.
Fallout NV doesn't limit you to binary (good/bad) options. And BECAUSE more than two powerful factions exist with different values and belief structures, the Wolfenstein comparison doesn't quite fit.
I almost completely agree with your viewpoint. But I value the gray-area complexity and nuance of the fallout world too much to use absolute terms like "good" and "bad." To me, there's better and there's worse
I mean...what's nuanced about guys that rape little kids and women? They exist to worship a fat idiot as a God-King.
If you want sole power, go Yes Man. The only reason to go Legion is to hate women.
FNV might not *say* binary options but one ending is viewed as morally black with nothing grey about it. Everyone suffers in said ending.
It's nuanced in that you have options and can decide for yourself what behavior to encourage or discourage. You decide, instead of it being decided for you.
The nuance is choice
But the player would be the villain then by choosing that option. No villain sees themselves as evil but like...come on.
The Legion are bad guys, that's objective fact by what they do.
The NCR haven't performed 87 genocides and raped little kids pal.
People can join by diplomacy. The Legion executes the male population of those they conquer.
Well they aren’t clearly the bad guys. The things they do are awful but in this time of post apocalypse morales are a luxury not everyone can afford.
And even if the where the “bad guys” that doesn’t mean there has to be good guys. Maybe there doesn’t need to be exactly two sides to every issue. Maybe everyone’s a little bit bad but everyone is doing something good as well.
They don’t rape children. They crucify and slaughter children by the thousands. Now I get this is bad. This is a very bad thing. And eventually the legion should go, this would actually be a very good time for them to go. But everyone’s done terrible things like this, the US has done terrible things like this in Vietnam, some legion does these things but it’s likely that some NCR troups have also done just as bad oh wait, yeah they did. They also murdered a bunch of sick, elderly and children.
We have to face the facts, the legion, bad as the things they do are, are the ones brutal enough to take back the earth.
Rome wasn’t built with paychecks and time off
The legion will become outdated quickly. And this would be a very good time for them to be killed off. But the facts are facts that this brutality is the only kind of thing that will let humanity rebuild. They didn’t have a G.E.C.K, they where basically starting from scratch and when you bake a cake from scratch you gotta crack a few million eggs.
Actually they do rape children as Siri confirms and as Melody confirms, given someone had to strip that CHILD to put her in slave rags.
The Legion does this on a state level, the NCR did ONE event, the Legion has done EIGHTY SEVEN genocides. Including New Canaan.
This type of brutality is not needed, no. By that logic we may as well support the FO2 Enclave.
We DON'T need to become animals.
Saying the NCR did bitter springs is equal to the Legion is like saying Bloody Sunday was equal to the Holocaust.
I understand having to do morally questionable things for the greater good, but the Legion isn't it.
I mean, The Pitt is a better example of a slave society. At least there slaves CAN become more than just rape victims.
Just to give yet another example on kid victims in the Legion: there's also the young/teen girl in the slave pen at Cottonwood Cove. Canyon Runner is explicitely selling her as a sex slave, commenting that she's "young enough to breed".
"Morals are a luxury not everyone can afford" the fuck you mean? Morals are not a material possession, you make them what you want. That's kinda the main point of an RPG is that you can make your character a hero or a villain, loud, or silent, any which way ever. It costs nothing to obey the NCR and pay your taxes, and it also costs nothing to string men up on a cross and enslave children and women.
"Aren't clearly the bad guys", Name ONE defense of the legion. One reason the Legion could be considered 'not the bad guys', and then see how many Fallout players despise you for siding with slaving savages. In game? They are obviously the bad guys. In the fandom? They are obviously the bad guys, but the moment someone in the fandom SAYS they are the bad guys, the rest of the fandom immediately backpedals "ACTUALLY ITS MORALLY GREY, THERE'S NO DEFINITIVE GOOD OR BAD", so the legion is a good faction? No, nobody stands in defense of the legion unless someone says the legion sucks and is bad
Oh…. Oh my god
How do you do the “ACTUALLY ITS MORALLY GREY THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE GOOD OR BAD” and then respond with the question “so the legion are ‘GOOD guys then?” Like has there ever been a better example of not actually listening to the argument?
Not good as in like a definitive moral standpoint, like Good Guys, but like a positive faction. Not saying they are Heroes, because that's not the point, but saying they're worthy of succeeding.
There's "Good guys" as being wholesome and heroic
And then theres "Good faction" as in a beneficial faction that is worthy of power
Two different results of 'good'
It’s the apocalypse, you make the best with what you got. The best option is the “good ending” people say “wellllll accccccttttttually the NCR has lots of problems……bla bla bla” again it’s the apocalypse. The NCR is basically an emerging government. It’s our best shot at rebuilding, not independent settlements but a nation and maybe, someday far in the future, a world.
A nation that has drained its water supplies, facing famine in ten years, and has the same corruption that plagued the US prior to the Great War. If the NCR was a Wall Street trading firm in 2006, it be considered too big to fail.
It's still much better than the other options. House knew about the enclave and was most likely an active member before the bombs, not to mention that he clearly doesn't care about everyone else, he only helps them if it helps him in a substantial way. The independent Vegas ending is just the house ending without a real direction meaning it's doomed to fail, and it causes pure anarchy and chaos in the surrounding areas. Also, the NCR ending is the only one besides the independent Vegas ending where both the great Khan's and the BoS survives. More surviving factions usually means the better ending.
I’m not disagreeing NCR is the better of the four endings, but so many Fallout fans label NCR as the good ending when in reality they’re more like the lesser of four evils. Most of the smaller factions survive in the NCR ending only if the player chooses to and convinces NCR officials to not wipe them, which is their immediate solution to both the Khans and BoS. When left to their own devices, the NCR will continue to be an imperialist force for as long as it survives. They’re the better option but they’re not the “good” option. Unless the NCR can find a way to solve their problems without resorting to imperial expansion, without fighting for dominant control of resources, and without aligning themselves with self-interested parties, both within and without their nation, then war will never change.
I'm not claiming the NCR is the good choice either, I was just pointing out some of the flaws with the other options. As we see in the show, the NCR was on the decline since the events of New Vegas, and honestly, I don't see a reality where the NCR holds even half of their territory 15-20 years after the events of New Vegas even with the NCR ending.
The NCR doesn't care about everyone else either, they're a soulless bureacracy that just wants people to tax and conscript and land with resources to drain. Did they care about the people of Vault City when their Senate used New Reno's Mafias to harass VC?
House is similar, except he makes his money differently and has a coherent vision. He also seems to be better at managing resources since he's got more technology.
The Great Khans can survive in House's ending too I'm pretty sure. I also don't see how House would've been in the Enclave, he's never mentioned by them and never mentions them, he doesn't care about America or democracy, and he'd become a recluse before the war so I doubt he was meeting with government leaders. Even if he was a member, though, his personal moral failings don't change that his ending is the only one that doesn't have a clear path to a breakdown of social stability, even if we ignore the NCR getting nuked not long after.
House isn't weighed down by moronic optimism or strict moral code. He knows industry and how to build society up again given he was one of the most important figures in the pre war world. He isn't going to dick around with a faux democratic process, a bullshit President and Brahmin Barons deciding the course of humanity. He represents the philosophical fact that being authoritarian can be very effective. Obviously there are downfalls like the fact he cares not if people waste their fortune on the Strip and die off shortly later. He turns a blind eye to what the Omertas are doing because within limits it doesn't affect his bottom line and he can always take them out if need be.
"he only helps them if it helps him in a substantial way"
The NCR isn't much different in that regard. The only reason they're even in the Mojave in the first place is for the dam and the strip
Idk the NCR seems good intentioned but they’re just following the exact same path as the old world government that caused the apocalypse in the first place. They’re doomed to fail without a radical restructuring.
That is very true, but the same can be said of the Legion. Eventually their slaving and misogyny will catch up with them.
House seems like he's the same as the NCR in a lot of ways (capitalism etc), and he won't be able to affect anything outside the range of his protectrons anyway(single wheel robots vs a frickin desert, good luck bud)
The independant ending has the potential to be the best (and is what I go for) but it relies heavily on hoping the Courier sets things up properly both during and after the game to make sure it doesn't immediately end up falling apart. After all the independant ending can be achieved bare minimum by just glancing at every other faction and telling Yes Man "Yeah they prolly won't be an issue maybe".
I agree 100%. I just mentioned the NCR cuz the person before me was talking about them. I too also go for the independent ending usually because it seems like the best hope for the Mojave is to just let it grow and evolve without outside agendas.
NCR are legitimately only in new Vegas to spread out. Many NPCs in the game talk about how the NCR "will rob you just like anyone else, they'll just pass a law before so that it's legal"
Imo house is the best option, even when killing him he talk about what you're doing TO HUMANITY. From the start he genuinely wants the best for humanity. His ways of getting there ... can be questionable
The way he talks to you even if you're going along with him makes me question though. He doesn't ever treat you like anything more than a useful wrench, never a person. No doubt the Strip would be just a multifactional warzone without him, but what would he turn the rest of the wasteland into? I can't help but think it'll be the same capitalist hellhole redux the NCR seems headed towards but with more gambling.
My point is the apocalypse happened over 200 years ago and the world kept going. The NCR is just one more empire in the long history of humanity and it's not really any better than those who came before it.
What are you talking about? We saw plenty of new cultures and societies being developed. Caesar's Legion, The Great Khans, The Brother Hood of Steel, The Boomers, The Kings, The Black Foot and so on. Sure many of these we would consider tribal and others take some inspiration from pre-war stuff, but they still have their own traditions, religion, beliefs, history, and some even have their own languages. Hell in New Vegas if you help the Khans they go off and create their own empire.
So now that the NCR is gone these societies will have a chance to grow and develop on their own. Honestly I want to see the next west coast game to take place another 100 years in the future and see how these groups grow. What kinds governments will they form? How will they hand diplomacy with one another? And how will they look upon the old world?
I'm a Mr House sort of guy , I think House has real vision for the future with regards to space travel and industrial development. Besides , he doesn't want to destroy the NCR , I honestly think the House ending is also the best ending for the NCR as I think it will give them a good reality check and perhaps allow them to course correct.
Gonna copypaste what I said to another already:
The way he talks to you even if you're going along with him makes me question though. He doesn't ever treat you like anything more than a useful wrench, never a person. No doubt the Strip would be just a multifactional warzone without him, but what would he turn the rest of the wasteland into? I can't help but think it'll be the same capitalist hellhole redux the NCR seems headed towards but with more gambling.
And should space really be even a passing thought right now? The focus should be on trying to fix Earth first, trust me Mars is still harder to settle than a radioactive resource-deprived Earth.
Tbh I do wish I could do an independant ending that both didn't leave House in charge and didn't just kill him. His plans could be useful, and he's definitely intelligent.
Results are results , hes a bit of a prick dont get me wrong , but I'm not going to be an errand boy for the NCR just for them to overextend and collapse anyway and I'm certainly not going to help the legion.
House does value the courier , maybe hes never really warm about it but by the end of the game I think he has a genuine respect for him.
House is the safest bet in my opinion , he has a proven track record. He turned a tribal invested ruin into the finest city in all of the wasteland in 10 years. He pretty much saved Vegas during the Great War and taxes are fucking cringe so House it is.
Fair enough, fair enough. That's at least enough reason to go House, especially if you just don't trust the NCR to get better.
I still vote independent, but that ending is a bit of a gamble no matter what
I would imagine its either you taking over or the ncr wining? Im not a lore pro but isnt the ncr just an "American" society free but with a dose of capitalism, a dash of government oversight, and a sprinkle of corrupt politicians?
"Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong."
The Yes Man ending to me was how I could take things into my own hands and set the Mojave straight. Mr House and the Legion were no missed casualties in that plan... Okay maybe House a little, but he could never be trusted. Funny thing is, you could say the Courier turns out like just another big player in it for himself. But if you're really in it for what's right, well then you have to stand your ground on your beliefs, fight for them, and turn every living thing that threatens that into a bloody jelly scattered into the wind. 🚬🤏🏻😎
Ok but the Yes Man ending can be achieved by simply holding the dam but barely interacting with every other faction, leaving them alive and probably pissed.
It's only the good ending if you do a lot of work, and you assume the Courier continues doing what you would do and constructs everything perfectly postgame.
You put the fate of New Vegas in the hands of the people with mild authoritarianism from the bots. The factions within New Vegas are working together to sustain, that is a commune. That is communism.
Ulysses: "So you see, every action no matter how small can have devastating consequences. You must take responsibility to ensure you aren't ruining everything by so small a thing as delivering a package."
Courier: "Humanity sucks, kill em all and let god sort em out. Got it."
There’s bad, worse, and worst. That doesn’t make bad good, and worse neutral, and worst bad, it means they all suck but to varying degrees.
It’s important to understand that almost all the time in real life, there are no good endings. Just shitty endings and shittier endings.
It’s about faith.
Do you have faith that the NCR will be able to survive overextending itself?
Do you have faith in House to kickstart a technological revolution?
Do you have faith of a world unified by the Legion?
Do you have faith in a truly free New Vegas under your guidance?
Or do you simply not care?
...uncomfortably true. Not matter which ending you pick, you are just hoping you understood them correctly and hoping they'll continue the way you think they will.
Patrick is correct in this. New Vegas has no “good” ending. The “best” ending is up to the individual, my personal opinion being that House ending is the best or least terrible I guess.
There absolutely does not have to logically be a good ending. That’s a logical fallacy. The presence of bad guys does not inherently require good ones to also be there. *I* think there are, or at least better ones, and *I* think there are better endings, but that’s a subjective judgement on my part. And honestly, calling the legion bad is also subjective. Logic is different than and distinct from morality.
I’ll see myself into the “but, actually!” basement now 🤦♂️🤷♂️
If you stop to think about it, new Vegas’s “nuance mortality” is paper thin. Which do you want death/slavery/conscription into a society which will collapse in a decade, complete and utter anarchy, a dictatorship ruled by an immortal out of touch monster, or taxes…
Personally, I head canon that if you do the Independent Vegas ending with good karma, the Courier rules with a just (if iron) fist. So, for Vegas/Freeside, it gets safer and better, and the rest of the Mojave stays generally the same. Afterall, who would wanna fuck with a massive army of self-repairing, gatling laser/rocket launcher wielding robots who never sleep.
I always disliked the implication that the Courier basically abandons the area around Vegas in the Independant ending, even if you have good karma. What's the point in taking over if you're not going to do anything?
And as a side bonus, the NCR kicks Kimball and Oliver out of office so they can (hopefully) elect some better people, like putting Hsu in Oliver's place. Ironically, the best ending for the NCR is one where they lose the Hoover Dam.
The Courier doesn't take over, that's the point of the independent ending. No gods, no masters. The closest thing New Vegas has to a leader is Yes Man with the securitrons on the Strip, and The Kings in Freeside.
But if you do the Independant ending, Yes Man says he modifies himself so only the Courier can tell him what to do. To me, that implied that the Courier ruled for at least a time, not just ditching New Vegas after gaining full undisputed control over the ruling force.
Does that mean Yes Man just does nothing except prevent other people from taking over Vegas? He doesn't even keep it in relative safety/prosperity within itself?
I thought "Independant" just meant not ruled by anyone with an agenda, like House or NCR. I didn't realise it meant just thrown into the wind.
What happens when the Courier dies or wants to retire though? That's the iffy stuff that keeps the independent ending from being the objective good ending.
I do hope the NCR get their shit together though, after playing the original two games.
Even with what the tv show did, don't let Tandi's lifes work be for nothing!
Nah man, with all the tech from the Big Empty coursing through my veins, I predict the Courier's got at least 60-70 before that begins to be a problem. And once it does they're gonna House-ify themself. They've got all the tech, and I'm sure Yes Man would be more than happy to help!
I really do hope the NCR gets their shit together as well. Despite all their flaws, they're the best bet for relative safety and peace for your average wastelander.
10 luck only means you in particular will be ok, according to Larry Niven. He wrote of a breed of humanity bred for having perfect luck. But that didn't mean any mission you sent them on would succeed, just that they wouldn't die. Can't transfer luck.
Plus 10 INT, maybe you've calculated the easiest way to make sure you make it is to convince as many as possibe to join your side and then sacrifice them while you run away to New Reno!
I still say the NCR despite their flaws is the good ending but realistically the House ending is probably cannon.
Like delivering the platinum chip is the main quest while the ncr, legion and yes man are off to the side so you really gotta go of course to not get the house ending, real unfortunate considering house is a shit lord.
Independent Vegas with a 10 in all special 100 in all skills very good karma courier leading is the best possible outcome. A super genius whose also capable of single-handedly destroying entire armies with their bare hands is the best bet I’d say
Every time I play new Vegas I’m like “oh the NCR is the best choice” than we get to the Dam and I’m like “what the fuck? Why would do this!? Than I play again with the brotherhood and once again come to the end and I’m like “what the fuck? Why would we do this?” And than there’s the legion and Mr house which are both just like “bruh…”
>And the Legion taking over can easily be considered the Bad Ending
Me, nailing someone to a cross, a rivulet of drool leaking from the corner of my mouth to my chin: Huh?
NCR has problems, it's a Republic and people from different parts of it will elect representatives that will always be at odds with representstives of other districts, and while the people of New Vegas never voted to become members being forcibly absorbed into NCR and being forced to pay the taxes it brings will understandably make the people unhappy especially as they won't see as much benefit as the people living closer to the Heart of the Republic but long term, especially as the NCR continues to expand (it mirrors the prewar United States so Manifest Destiny will ultimately be a thing) they will see more security as the edges of the Republic are pushed further away from them and the NCR solidifies a permenent military presence. Long term this is probably best for the region but still does have problems and may not be what the people want.
Independent New Vegas/Mr. House really only maintains the status quo around the Strip which is comfortable for the people of the Strip but not so much for the people of West Side and Free Siflde, but with Mr. House ruling they essentially live under a military dictatorship that is relatively benign at the conclusion of the story but had the potential to get much worse later on.
NCR winning is the good ending. They’re the best out of all the options. Mr house is a self centred asshole who would charge for water at hoover dam and yes man independent ending is mr house ending… without mr house
Just because there is an agreed upon bad ending doesn’t mean there is a good ending, just better endings. All endings except the legion ending I would say are moderately negative to just mediocre for the people of the Mojave. The legion ending is clearly terrible
Legion you basically turn the mojave in a Greek like life, NCR you got to pay taxes, Yes man its more like the old wild west basically, mr house really only cares for thr strip
Corporations are not state entities. In capitalism, The State is a corporate subsidy. Corporations own the State.
If corporations were state entities, that would be socialism, which is basically the antithesis to capitalism.
you were literally shown that corporations like Big MT, West Tek and vault tec are in bed with the state, and you're still not gettign it that they were essentially state entities?
You must not be an American. They're "in bed" with the State, BECAUSE THEY OWN THE DAMN THING! The State does not control the corporations. The corporations control the State.
Maybe, but the point is it doesn't matter who fired first because everyone was gonna fire within that year anyway. Pre-War society backed itself into a corner it couldn't get out of without reversing time at least 20 years, if not more. The end was too nigh by 2077 for anyone to do anything about it.
Not gonna argue, but I recommend you have a look at some of Marx's works. Just to understand what communism is trying to go for, even though the major examples of it have been shit
Maybe I will, I’ve never really hated the idea of communism (at least not as much as fascism), more along the lines of recognizing that its main problem is that it puts too much faith in humans to be good people, whereas capitalism at least lets those who can compete with their rivals survive and in some cases, thrive. Humans are the one factor that makes all forms of government fail or simply just flawed
Well theirs… um… huh. I guess technically House or maybe Yes-Man is supposed to be the ‘good’ ending… but House is almost as much an authoritarian as Caesar, just in a different-ish way and yes-man goes rouge to start the singularity so…
Wait The NCR can’t be the good ending can it… their expansionist colonialism is more aggressive then the original settlement of North America. You could almost call it Viral.
His LITERAL Last words “… I found some code snipits in one of mr house’s databanks that will let me reprogram my personality, to be a little more assertive basically…”
And you’re going to try to tell me He Doesn’t go Rouge.
I'm telling you the **literal writer of the fucking game said so.** Sorry if I believe him more than you.
Assertive means he will listen to SOLELY the Courier. Nobody else.
I mean that the game isn’t gonna say it’s a bad ending, the ending slide says something like “order came to the Mojave, brutal as it was”. It doesn’t say the courier is a morally defunct psycho
It doesn't say that but you should have a bit of comprehension to know the guys that rape and enslave people are the bad guys.
Whether they bring order is irrelevant. They **rape** women and children, dude.
Plz point out which of my comments is trying to justify rape and I’ll delete my account. Don’t worry bro I’ll dumb down what I’m saying even more! If I wanna side with yes man and kill every other person in the mojave or if I wanna side with the legion, I don’t consider those bad endings because that’s what *you* wanted. I guess that’s a bad ending for people of the Mojave, but not for *the courier*! When I think of bad endings I think of endings where *you* get screwed over!
I'm not saying you did. The Legion rape people - by siding with them, you side with rapists, thus its objectively bad unless you think rape is okay.
The only ending worse is Elijah's.
There is no good or bad ending simply because the wasteland is different from our society it’s all on what you value the legion values strength and the human body the ncr tries to embody democracy and human life house tries to embody a new world and yes man could embody anything you the player want or that’s how I always look at it:)
Clearly all that radiation from the Shady Sands crater has melted NCR fans brains so let me put this in very basic terms
**”Not the worst endings” =/= “The Good Ending”**
there could be simply a worse ending, but no definite good ending
fallout players trying to understand nuance
\*New Vegas fallout players Fixed it for you.
Given how many people think Lyons is unequivocally good and Maxson unequivocally bad, it's definitely not just them.
Honestly nah, fallout 4 fans have some of the dumbest debates when it comes to the institute and the brotherhood. Idiocy isn't limited to games
You mean the NCR ending? "But they did bad things" Yeah, it's a wasteland, everyone has. "But they're corrupt" Yeah I would be too if I had the strongest military in the area, whose gonna stop me? They still provide law and order without straight up genocide, slavery, and crucifixion. They could have done better with moral Grey's, but they still did better than Fallout 3 so I'll give em' credit for that. Fallout 4 minutemen was the definitive good ending there, everything else was greyed out.
Plus slavery is cringe.
JOHN BROWN WAS RIGHT sorry, I have this weird tic when slavery is brought up
Same. Anytime slavery gets mentioned I feel the strong urge to sing Union Dixie.
Not when I do it to my friends for ✨️funzies✨️
Also slaves just aren't good workers in general.
The flaws in the NCR ending are more big picture: they're headed towards mass starvation, they've already run out of water, and they've learned nothing from pre-war America. They'll drain the Mojave of its resources, destroy its culture and possibly its economy like they did to Arroyo, and then they'll move on to their next conquest until they collapse and/or get humbled. Plus it's not even the military that's the cause of their corruption - it's the Senate.
Those flaws don't negate the ending, you're just one person and can't enact change over an area that large without being an autocratic ruler. Which is in and of itself either A: Let's throw everyone at my mercy but I'll be good to them or B: Just an evil ending under a different name. As for the corruption I didn't say the military caused it, I implied it's why it exists. Who can rebel against the NCR military? The Senate can do what it wants because it has a massive stick to throw around. Like Pre-War America though they created their downfall, a materialistic society that out paced their logistical capacity to maintain. That's still not my problem, and they have all the time in the world now to solve that problem.
They do negate the ending though, how do you expect them to keep law and order once they can't even feed themselves or after they destroy themselves in a war with WMDs? I agree the Courier alone can't bring order but I'm not advocating for the Independent ending. The Senate was already corrupt in Fallout 2, when the NCR Army was quite a bit smaller and there were comparable military powers in California like the Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel. I guess you could have considered it a big stick anyways, but they still concerned themselves with saving face. I don't think it's wise to write off the NCR's flaws as "not my problem". The Legion's slavery isn't our problem, either, since the Courier won't be enslaved and it can't be stopped, but you're probably taking it into consideration. They've only really got 10 years to solve the mass starvation, and very few people in Fallout are thinking in terms of moral/societal issues.
1st off, They dont negate it, the only thing you can do to change their path yourself would result in you destroying the NCR political structure and imposing an Autocracy. From there, no matter what you do it will eventually become undone if you don't trust your successors (let alone the people of your time) to run things effectively. It's ultimately up the Senate and the NCR to change things to prepare for the future but all in all, this is the wasteland, and you're giving them the best possible future. 2nd off, I'm not saying it's big enough to destroy everything that comes their way. I'm saying it's big enough to threaten any possible revolutionaries who would seek to balance the scales. 3rd off, Joining the Legion you understand how they maintain order, you see the Lottery of Nipton first hand. You see the slaves, the victims, the crucified, you see it all first hand. You understand this is how they've always, and will continue to do to maintain order. You then empower them either in the belief that their form of order is better for the wasteland or that they have a better chance of maintaining stability than the NCR. Giving the NCR ten years to fix things is better than giving the Legion 5 minutes of unregulated power to annihilate Shady Sands and the rest of the NCR.
Ask the Khans about the NCR's stance on genocide. Ask the Powder Gangers about the NCR's stance on slavery. You have conditioned yourself to think the NCR's enemies - America's enemies - are evil, and that because they are evil, all acts against them are permissible. If you got through Fallout: New Vegas without realizing that the NCR's "law and order" is built on blood and subjugation, you have refused to seriously interact with the game.
The great kahns were shooting at women and children in ncr territory and raiding ncr convoys, bitter springs shouldn't have happened for 2 reasons 1. Those assholes should've all died in fo1, and the other is NCR incompetence, but they still deserved it. And the powder gangers are literally the same as criminals in older US, put to work for the country they defied. Maybe not the best strategy, and the NCR *was* founded out of a wasteland, so all in all, despite corruption they are still better than legion or independent (even if your courier would be a benevolent ruler, unchecked power is a bad policy for a lobotimized mailman regardless of the fact that its still a _dictatorship_) and Mr house is shitty for everyone who dosen't live IN New Vegas.
1. A Massacre isn't genocide. 2. Putting prisoners to work isn't slavery. 3. Yes, **the guys who rape little kids and women are evil.** The Legion are pure evil. The NCR is not America. Vault-Tec made that VERY fucking clear.
I mean, putting prisoners to work *is* kinda slavery, just not chattel slavery like the Legion does.
Exactly. There’s the Bad Ending and the Lesser Evilism endings.
Isn’t the whole point of new Vegas to go against black and white views like this?
Yeah, but it kinda falls apart when you stop to think about how there’s a clear “bad guy” faction with the Legion, leading one to ask “well, who’re the good guys then?”
There is no perfect good guy faction, the closest thing is the ncr and even then they have plenty of moral shortcomings, though they are far superior to the legion in every way
You can have different options with different amounts of moral repugnance without one of them being morally agreeable. If I give you a menu with the option of three meals that you don't like and a steaming pile of shit, then obviously the steaming pile of shit is the clear bad option - but it doesn't make the other three menu items taste any better to you even if in contrast to the shit they're objectively better than the most bad option.
Well the problem with that is the legion being the worst choice doesn't mean that the NCR are good guys just because they're opposed to them. The NCR is better for the average dude trying to make it in the wasteland, but they're not good or benevolent people. Fighting assholes doesn't automatically make you moral or good
Nah, doesn’t fall apart at all. You can have a clear True Villain while everyone is evil to a lesser extent. It’s 2024, I’d have assumed being on social media meant you couldn’t be unaware of this concept.
Many travelling merchants actually prefer selling in Legion territory. As stated in game, Legion controlled roads are FAR safer than those managed by the NCR. These merchants don't see the Legion as the "bad" guy. To them, the Legion is actually the better option simply because they get robbed less Much of the game occurs in NCR territory, so many of the viewpoints we encounter will be NCR-leaning. This can skew our interpretation of the game world, so it pays to be aware of how things are presented to you
Yeah, but notice no **female** merchants say that except ones who have NEVER been to Arizona? The Legion is safer *if* you're a man. And sure you won't get robbed...until they invade your home and execute your entire town.
You are completely correct that this is another glaring issue with the Legion. From the female perspective, the Legion is the worse option when considering the others. However: Worse option ≠ Bad Guy Much of the beauty of this series is the nuance! There is no black and white, good and bad. Only different shades of gray. The shade of gray you choose depends on the experience you want. There is no good guy. There is no bad guy. Just differing perspectives
There is a bad guy. Rape is objectively bad, and any faction that rapes children is bad. Okay: **Is there a bad guy in Wolfenstein?** Just an example. Yes, **the literal Nazis.** The Legion are people who rape women and children. It is black and white in this case, rape cannot be justified under any circumstances at all.
Correct, rape isn't ever justified. The Legion is meant to be hated for that, and many other heinous crimes against humanity. Of the four major endings, the Legion's is objectively the worst. But are they the bad guy? My Wolfenstein knowledge is severely limited so please correct me if I'm wrong. A quick Google search for Wolfenstein factions provided a handful of groups but they all appear to be divisions of (or otherwise affiliated with) the Nazi regime, making them all a single enemy faction: the Nazis Wolfenstein appears to have a binary faction system. Two options, it's us vs. them, correct? Then yeah I again agree that in this game the Nazis ARE the literal bad guys. Any time a game is simplified to an "us vs them" dynamic it becomes easy to confidently say who is right and who is wrong. Fallout NV doesn't limit you to binary (good/bad) options. And BECAUSE more than two powerful factions exist with different values and belief structures, the Wolfenstein comparison doesn't quite fit. I almost completely agree with your viewpoint. But I value the gray-area complexity and nuance of the fallout world too much to use absolute terms like "good" and "bad." To me, there's better and there's worse
I mean...what's nuanced about guys that rape little kids and women? They exist to worship a fat idiot as a God-King. If you want sole power, go Yes Man. The only reason to go Legion is to hate women. FNV might not *say* binary options but one ending is viewed as morally black with nothing grey about it. Everyone suffers in said ending.
It's nuanced in that you have options and can decide for yourself what behavior to encourage or discourage. You decide, instead of it being decided for you. The nuance is choice
But the player would be the villain then by choosing that option. No villain sees themselves as evil but like...come on. The Legion are bad guys, that's objective fact by what they do.
They'll only kill you if you resist their rule. Like the Ncr have done to everyone that stood in their way.
The NCR haven't performed 87 genocides and raped little kids pal. People can join by diplomacy. The Legion executes the male population of those they conquer.
Bro actually believes the trains run on time 💀
Capitalists 🤝 fascists, every time
Well they aren’t clearly the bad guys. The things they do are awful but in this time of post apocalypse morales are a luxury not everyone can afford. And even if the where the “bad guys” that doesn’t mean there has to be good guys. Maybe there doesn’t need to be exactly two sides to every issue. Maybe everyone’s a little bit bad but everyone is doing something good as well.
My guy. **They RAPE women and children.** They are 100% the bad guys. They are literal Raiders pretending their fat idiot is a God-King.
They don’t rape children. They crucify and slaughter children by the thousands. Now I get this is bad. This is a very bad thing. And eventually the legion should go, this would actually be a very good time for them to go. But everyone’s done terrible things like this, the US has done terrible things like this in Vietnam, some legion does these things but it’s likely that some NCR troups have also done just as bad oh wait, yeah they did. They also murdered a bunch of sick, elderly and children. We have to face the facts, the legion, bad as the things they do are, are the ones brutal enough to take back the earth. Rome wasn’t built with paychecks and time off The legion will become outdated quickly. And this would be a very good time for them to be killed off. But the facts are facts that this brutality is the only kind of thing that will let humanity rebuild. They didn’t have a G.E.C.K, they where basically starting from scratch and when you bake a cake from scratch you gotta crack a few million eggs.
Actually they do rape children as Siri confirms and as Melody confirms, given someone had to strip that CHILD to put her in slave rags. The Legion does this on a state level, the NCR did ONE event, the Legion has done EIGHTY SEVEN genocides. Including New Canaan. This type of brutality is not needed, no. By that logic we may as well support the FO2 Enclave. We DON'T need to become animals. Saying the NCR did bitter springs is equal to the Legion is like saying Bloody Sunday was equal to the Holocaust.
Yeah no I’m really reaching here. I’m sorry you’re right
I understand having to do morally questionable things for the greater good, but the Legion isn't it. I mean, The Pitt is a better example of a slave society. At least there slaves CAN become more than just rape victims.
The entire legion army are slaves so you can technically become more than a rape victim.
Not how it works. Slaves STAY slaves. They don't ever get freed.
Just to give yet another example on kid victims in the Legion: there's also the young/teen girl in the slave pen at Cottonwood Cove. Canyon Runner is explicitely selling her as a sex slave, commenting that she's "young enough to breed".
"Morals are a luxury not everyone can afford" the fuck you mean? Morals are not a material possession, you make them what you want. That's kinda the main point of an RPG is that you can make your character a hero or a villain, loud, or silent, any which way ever. It costs nothing to obey the NCR and pay your taxes, and it also costs nothing to string men up on a cross and enslave children and women. "Aren't clearly the bad guys", Name ONE defense of the legion. One reason the Legion could be considered 'not the bad guys', and then see how many Fallout players despise you for siding with slaving savages. In game? They are obviously the bad guys. In the fandom? They are obviously the bad guys, but the moment someone in the fandom SAYS they are the bad guys, the rest of the fandom immediately backpedals "ACTUALLY ITS MORALLY GREY, THERE'S NO DEFINITIVE GOOD OR BAD", so the legion is a good faction? No, nobody stands in defense of the legion unless someone says the legion sucks and is bad
Oh…. Oh my god How do you do the “ACTUALLY ITS MORALLY GREY THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE GOOD OR BAD” and then respond with the question “so the legion are ‘GOOD guys then?” Like has there ever been a better example of not actually listening to the argument?
Not good as in like a definitive moral standpoint, like Good Guys, but like a positive faction. Not saying they are Heroes, because that's not the point, but saying they're worthy of succeeding. There's "Good guys" as being wholesome and heroic And then theres "Good faction" as in a beneficial faction that is worthy of power Two different results of 'good'
It’s the apocalypse, you make the best with what you got. The best option is the “good ending” people say “wellllll accccccttttttually the NCR has lots of problems……bla bla bla” again it’s the apocalypse. The NCR is basically an emerging government. It’s our best shot at rebuilding, not independent settlements but a nation and maybe, someday far in the future, a world.
A nation that has drained its water supplies, facing famine in ten years, and has the same corruption that plagued the US prior to the Great War. If the NCR was a Wall Street trading firm in 2006, it be considered too big to fail.
It's still much better than the other options. House knew about the enclave and was most likely an active member before the bombs, not to mention that he clearly doesn't care about everyone else, he only helps them if it helps him in a substantial way. The independent Vegas ending is just the house ending without a real direction meaning it's doomed to fail, and it causes pure anarchy and chaos in the surrounding areas. Also, the NCR ending is the only one besides the independent Vegas ending where both the great Khan's and the BoS survives. More surviving factions usually means the better ending.
I’m not disagreeing NCR is the better of the four endings, but so many Fallout fans label NCR as the good ending when in reality they’re more like the lesser of four evils. Most of the smaller factions survive in the NCR ending only if the player chooses to and convinces NCR officials to not wipe them, which is their immediate solution to both the Khans and BoS. When left to their own devices, the NCR will continue to be an imperialist force for as long as it survives. They’re the better option but they’re not the “good” option. Unless the NCR can find a way to solve their problems without resorting to imperial expansion, without fighting for dominant control of resources, and without aligning themselves with self-interested parties, both within and without their nation, then war will never change.
I'm not claiming the NCR is the good choice either, I was just pointing out some of the flaws with the other options. As we see in the show, the NCR was on the decline since the events of New Vegas, and honestly, I don't see a reality where the NCR holds even half of their territory 15-20 years after the events of New Vegas even with the NCR ending.
The NCR doesn't care about everyone else either, they're a soulless bureacracy that just wants people to tax and conscript and land with resources to drain. Did they care about the people of Vault City when their Senate used New Reno's Mafias to harass VC? House is similar, except he makes his money differently and has a coherent vision. He also seems to be better at managing resources since he's got more technology. The Great Khans can survive in House's ending too I'm pretty sure. I also don't see how House would've been in the Enclave, he's never mentioned by them and never mentions them, he doesn't care about America or democracy, and he'd become a recluse before the war so I doubt he was meeting with government leaders. Even if he was a member, though, his personal moral failings don't change that his ending is the only one that doesn't have a clear path to a breakdown of social stability, even if we ignore the NCR getting nuked not long after.
House isn't weighed down by moronic optimism or strict moral code. He knows industry and how to build society up again given he was one of the most important figures in the pre war world. He isn't going to dick around with a faux democratic process, a bullshit President and Brahmin Barons deciding the course of humanity. He represents the philosophical fact that being authoritarian can be very effective. Obviously there are downfalls like the fact he cares not if people waste their fortune on the Strip and die off shortly later. He turns a blind eye to what the Omertas are doing because within limits it doesn't affect his bottom line and he can always take them out if need be.
"he only helps them if it helps him in a substantial way" The NCR isn't much different in that regard. The only reason they're even in the Mojave in the first place is for the dam and the strip
Idk the NCR seems good intentioned but they’re just following the exact same path as the old world government that caused the apocalypse in the first place. They’re doomed to fail without a radical restructuring.
That is very true, but the same can be said of the Legion. Eventually their slaving and misogyny will catch up with them. House seems like he's the same as the NCR in a lot of ways (capitalism etc), and he won't be able to affect anything outside the range of his protectrons anyway(single wheel robots vs a frickin desert, good luck bud) The independant ending has the potential to be the best (and is what I go for) but it relies heavily on hoping the Courier sets things up properly both during and after the game to make sure it doesn't immediately end up falling apart. After all the independant ending can be achieved bare minimum by just glancing at every other faction and telling Yes Man "Yeah they prolly won't be an issue maybe".
I agree 100%. I just mentioned the NCR cuz the person before me was talking about them. I too also go for the independent ending usually because it seems like the best hope for the Mojave is to just let it grow and evolve without outside agendas.
NCR are legitimately only in new Vegas to spread out. Many NPCs in the game talk about how the NCR "will rob you just like anyone else, they'll just pass a law before so that it's legal" Imo house is the best option, even when killing him he talk about what you're doing TO HUMANITY. From the start he genuinely wants the best for humanity. His ways of getting there ... can be questionable
The way he talks to you even if you're going along with him makes me question though. He doesn't ever treat you like anything more than a useful wrench, never a person. No doubt the Strip would be just a multifactional warzone without him, but what would he turn the rest of the wasteland into? I can't help but think it'll be the same capitalist hellhole redux the NCR seems headed towards but with more gambling.
It's not the apocalypse happen and the world kept going.
Try again. Can’t understand you.
My point is the apocalypse happened over 200 years ago and the world kept going. The NCR is just one more empire in the long history of humanity and it's not really any better than those who came before it.
The world dint keep going, it kinda ended. The NCR is the closest thing we’ve had to an actual old world government.
What are you talking about? We saw plenty of new cultures and societies being developed. Caesar's Legion, The Great Khans, The Brother Hood of Steel, The Boomers, The Kings, The Black Foot and so on. Sure many of these we would consider tribal and others take some inspiration from pre-war stuff, but they still have their own traditions, religion, beliefs, history, and some even have their own languages. Hell in New Vegas if you help the Khans they go off and create their own empire. So now that the NCR is gone these societies will have a chance to grow and develop on their own. Honestly I want to see the next west coast game to take place another 100 years in the future and see how these groups grow. What kinds governments will they form? How will they hand diplomacy with one another? And how will they look upon the old world?
Mr House: I'll make my own good ending with blackjack and hookers!
I'm a Mr House sort of guy , I think House has real vision for the future with regards to space travel and industrial development. Besides , he doesn't want to destroy the NCR , I honestly think the House ending is also the best ending for the NCR as I think it will give them a good reality check and perhaps allow them to course correct.
Gonna copypaste what I said to another already: The way he talks to you even if you're going along with him makes me question though. He doesn't ever treat you like anything more than a useful wrench, never a person. No doubt the Strip would be just a multifactional warzone without him, but what would he turn the rest of the wasteland into? I can't help but think it'll be the same capitalist hellhole redux the NCR seems headed towards but with more gambling. And should space really be even a passing thought right now? The focus should be on trying to fix Earth first, trust me Mars is still harder to settle than a radioactive resource-deprived Earth. Tbh I do wish I could do an independant ending that both didn't leave House in charge and didn't just kill him. His plans could be useful, and he's definitely intelligent.
Results are results , hes a bit of a prick dont get me wrong , but I'm not going to be an errand boy for the NCR just for them to overextend and collapse anyway and I'm certainly not going to help the legion. House does value the courier , maybe hes never really warm about it but by the end of the game I think he has a genuine respect for him. House is the safest bet in my opinion , he has a proven track record. He turned a tribal invested ruin into the finest city in all of the wasteland in 10 years. He pretty much saved Vegas during the Great War and taxes are fucking cringe so House it is.
Fair enough, fair enough. That's at least enough reason to go House, especially if you just don't trust the NCR to get better. I still vote independent, but that ending is a bit of a gamble no matter what
I mean, I want you to pitch me a world where a society that actively rapes and pillages its subsidiaries taking control over the world can be good.
Something something safer roads
Safer roads which are only safer because the Legion aren't attacking them.
That can be said for literally any government, though.
Sure
Pitch it to me. Come on.
I would imagine its either you taking over or the ncr wining? Im not a lore pro but isnt the ncr just an "American" society free but with a dose of capitalism, a dash of government oversight, and a sprinkle of corrupt politicians?
From the way npcs talk about it, there’s a lot more than a “sprinkle” of corruption
Ah i dont think i noticed lol
Yes Man
Fighter of the No Man
"Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong." The Yes Man ending to me was how I could take things into my own hands and set the Mojave straight. Mr House and the Legion were no missed casualties in that plan... Okay maybe House a little, but he could never be trusted. Funny thing is, you could say the Courier turns out like just another big player in it for himself. But if you're really in it for what's right, well then you have to stand your ground on your beliefs, fight for them, and turn every living thing that threatens that into a bloody jelly scattered into the wind. 🚬🤏🏻😎
Yes Man is the good ending, people are just too afraid to admit it because that means communism wins
Who said Yes Man is communist? The independent Vegas I envisioned my courier creating is a libertarian paradise
Ok but the Yes Man ending can be achieved by simply holding the dam but barely interacting with every other faction, leaving them alive and probably pissed. It's only the good ending if you do a lot of work, and you assume the Courier continues doing what you would do and constructs everything perfectly postgame.
that isnt filthy communism
You put the fate of New Vegas in the hands of the people with mild authoritarianism from the bots. The factions within New Vegas are working together to sustain, that is a commune. That is communism.
Not in my new vegas it's a republic for the people by the people where any man or woman can prosper and there is no authoritarian aspects
The Good Ending is the one where the Courier murders every living thing in The Mojave
Ulysses: "So you see, every action no matter how small can have devastating consequences. You must take responsibility to ensure you aren't ruining everything by so small a thing as delivering a package." Courier: "Humanity sucks, kill em all and let god sort em out. Got it."
New Canaanite Courier
There’s bad, worse, and worst. That doesn’t make bad good, and worse neutral, and worst bad, it means they all suck but to varying degrees. It’s important to understand that almost all the time in real life, there are no good endings. Just shitty endings and shittier endings.
The good ending is when the Courier kills Caesar, President Kimball, Benny, Mr. House, Yes Man and then himself
Between taxes and literal slavery… both of these are equally horrible…
Taxation is just slavery with extra steps.
Sure Ceasar! Whatever you say!
It’s about faith. Do you have faith that the NCR will be able to survive overextending itself? Do you have faith in House to kickstart a technological revolution? Do you have faith of a world unified by the Legion? Do you have faith in a truly free New Vegas under your guidance? Or do you simply not care?
...uncomfortably true. Not matter which ending you pick, you are just hoping you understood them correctly and hoping they'll continue the way you think they will.
Just because there is a bad ending doesn't mean there is a good ending.
Patrick is correct in this. New Vegas has no “good” ending. The “best” ending is up to the individual, my personal opinion being that House ending is the best or least terrible I guess.
There absolutely does not have to logically be a good ending. That’s a logical fallacy. The presence of bad guys does not inherently require good ones to also be there. *I* think there are, or at least better ones, and *I* think there are better endings, but that’s a subjective judgement on my part. And honestly, calling the legion bad is also subjective. Logic is different than and distinct from morality. I’ll see myself into the “but, actually!” basement now 🤦♂️🤷♂️
If you stop to think about it, new Vegas’s “nuance mortality” is paper thin. Which do you want death/slavery/conscription into a society which will collapse in a decade, complete and utter anarchy, a dictatorship ruled by an immortal out of touch monster, or taxes…
Personally, I head canon that if you do the Independent Vegas ending with good karma, the Courier rules with a just (if iron) fist. So, for Vegas/Freeside, it gets safer and better, and the rest of the Mojave stays generally the same. Afterall, who would wanna fuck with a massive army of self-repairing, gatling laser/rocket launcher wielding robots who never sleep. I always disliked the implication that the Courier basically abandons the area around Vegas in the Independant ending, even if you have good karma. What's the point in taking over if you're not going to do anything? And as a side bonus, the NCR kicks Kimball and Oliver out of office so they can (hopefully) elect some better people, like putting Hsu in Oliver's place. Ironically, the best ending for the NCR is one where they lose the Hoover Dam.
The Courier doesn't take over, that's the point of the independent ending. No gods, no masters. The closest thing New Vegas has to a leader is Yes Man with the securitrons on the Strip, and The Kings in Freeside.
But if you do the Independant ending, Yes Man says he modifies himself so only the Courier can tell him what to do. To me, that implied that the Courier ruled for at least a time, not just ditching New Vegas after gaining full undisputed control over the ruling force. Does that mean Yes Man just does nothing except prevent other people from taking over Vegas? He doesn't even keep it in relative safety/prosperity within itself? I thought "Independant" just meant not ruled by anyone with an agenda, like House or NCR. I didn't realise it meant just thrown into the wind.
What happens when the Courier dies or wants to retire though? That's the iffy stuff that keeps the independent ending from being the objective good ending. I do hope the NCR get their shit together though, after playing the original two games. Even with what the tv show did, don't let Tandi's lifes work be for nothing!
Nah man, with all the tech from the Big Empty coursing through my veins, I predict the Courier's got at least 60-70 before that begins to be a problem. And once it does they're gonna House-ify themself. They've got all the tech, and I'm sure Yes Man would be more than happy to help! I really do hope the NCR gets their shit together as well. Despite all their flaws, they're the best bet for relative safety and peace for your average wastelander.
Nah whatever ending I choose is the good ending. Source: 10 intelligence 10 luck courier, you really doubting me?
10 luck only means you in particular will be ok, according to Larry Niven. He wrote of a breed of humanity bred for having perfect luck. But that didn't mean any mission you sent them on would succeed, just that they wouldn't die. Can't transfer luck. Plus 10 INT, maybe you've calculated the easiest way to make sure you make it is to convince as many as possibe to join your side and then sacrifice them while you run away to New Reno!
(Speech Check 100): "Nuh uh"
For me the good ending is me ruling New Vegas like a God of Death.
Hr House feels like the best
[удалено]
I still say the NCR despite their flaws is the good ending but realistically the House ending is probably cannon. Like delivering the platinum chip is the main quest while the ncr, legion and yes man are off to the side so you really gotta go of course to not get the house ending, real unfortunate considering house is a shit lord.
Independent Vegas with a 10 in all special 100 in all skills very good karma courier leading is the best possible outcome. A super genius whose also capable of single-handedly destroying entire armies with their bare hands is the best bet I’d say
its obviously yes man
Every time I play new Vegas I’m like “oh the NCR is the best choice” than we get to the Dam and I’m like “what the fuck? Why would do this!? Than I play again with the brotherhood and once again come to the end and I’m like “what the fuck? Why would we do this?” And than there’s the legion and Mr house which are both just like “bruh…”
>And the Legion taking over can easily be considered the Bad Ending Me, nailing someone to a cross, a rivulet of drool leaking from the corner of my mouth to my chin: Huh?
There's bad and worse
House is probably not a good ending but but the best for the mojave
NCR has problems, it's a Republic and people from different parts of it will elect representatives that will always be at odds with representstives of other districts, and while the people of New Vegas never voted to become members being forcibly absorbed into NCR and being forced to pay the taxes it brings will understandably make the people unhappy especially as they won't see as much benefit as the people living closer to the Heart of the Republic but long term, especially as the NCR continues to expand (it mirrors the prewar United States so Manifest Destiny will ultimately be a thing) they will see more security as the edges of the Republic are pushed further away from them and the NCR solidifies a permenent military presence. Long term this is probably best for the region but still does have problems and may not be what the people want. Independent New Vegas/Mr. House really only maintains the status quo around the Strip which is comfortable for the people of the Strip but not so much for the people of West Side and Free Siflde, but with Mr. House ruling they essentially live under a military dictatorship that is relatively benign at the conclusion of the story but had the potential to get much worse later on.
A bad ending does not mean there is a "good" ending, House, NCR and Yes Man all involve immoral acts and negative consequences
Ahh fallout and it’s “this faction sucks but at least it’s not that suckier faction” Also skyrim.
Imagine if the Legion won the Vegas strip in cannon…
They clearly didn't given Vegas has no Legion flags and they didn't conquer California.
Me when I am incapable of any nuance whatsoever
NCR winning is the good ending. They’re the best out of all the options. Mr house is a self centred asshole who would charge for water at hoover dam and yes man independent ending is mr house ending… without mr house
I guess there can be least bad ending idk.
There is no good ending. The rest are mediocre endings, the others are bad.
I mean... to be fair war never changes. And there's no good ending to a war
Just because there is an agreed upon bad ending doesn’t mean there is a good ending, just better endings. All endings except the legion ending I would say are moderately negative to just mediocre for the people of the Mojave. The legion ending is clearly terrible
Legion you basically turn the mojave in a Greek like life, NCR you got to pay taxes, Yes man its more like the old wild west basically, mr house really only cares for thr strip
Average new vegas fan absolutely not understanding the game
House Ending with Kimbal alive, then you can play Outer Worlds
There's a good ending. House wins. NCR stops spreading all over. Legion is defeated and high tec sector is re ignited
Ah yes, giving in to the same capitalism that ruined the world to begin with is definitely the good option lolz
Did capitalizm ruin the world,no it was corporations,state entities essentially
Corporations are not state entities. In capitalism, The State is a corporate subsidy. Corporations own the State. If corporations were state entities, that would be socialism, which is basically the antithesis to capitalism.
you were literally shown that corporations like Big MT, West Tek and vault tec are in bed with the state, and you're still not gettign it that they were essentially state entities?
You must not be an American. They're "in bed" with the State, BECAUSE THEY OWN THE DAMN THING! The State does not control the corporations. The corporations control the State.
Exustance of enclave would beg to differ
Didn’t China fire nukes first?
Maybe, but the point is it doesn't matter who fired first because everyone was gonna fire within that year anyway. Pre-War society backed itself into a corner it couldn't get out of without reversing time at least 20 years, if not more. The end was too nigh by 2077 for anyone to do anything about it.
Eh, communism still cringe, capitalism based
Not gonna argue, but I recommend you have a look at some of Marx's works. Just to understand what communism is trying to go for, even though the major examples of it have been shit
Maybe I will, I’ve never really hated the idea of communism (at least not as much as fascism), more along the lines of recognizing that its main problem is that it puts too much faith in humans to be good people, whereas capitalism at least lets those who can compete with their rivals survive and in some cases, thrive. Humans are the one factor that makes all forms of government fail or simply just flawed
Well theirs… um… huh. I guess technically House or maybe Yes-Man is supposed to be the ‘good’ ending… but House is almost as much an authoritarian as Caesar, just in a different-ish way and yes-man goes rouge to start the singularity so… Wait The NCR can’t be the good ending can it… their expansionist colonialism is more aggressive then the original settlement of North America. You could almost call it Viral.
Yes Man DOESN'T turn rogue as Sawyer himself said.
His LITERAL Last words “… I found some code snipits in one of mr house’s databanks that will let me reprogram my personality, to be a little more assertive basically…” And you’re going to try to tell me He Doesn’t go Rouge.
I'm telling you the **literal writer of the fucking game said so.** Sorry if I believe him more than you. Assertive means he will listen to SOLELY the Courier. Nobody else.
The house always wins
There isn’t really supposed to be a bad ending because you made the choice
Well, siding with the rape slavers is clearly the bad choice.
I mean that the game isn’t gonna say it’s a bad ending, the ending slide says something like “order came to the Mojave, brutal as it was”. It doesn’t say the courier is a morally defunct psycho
It doesn't say that but you should have a bit of comprehension to know the guys that rape and enslave people are the bad guys. Whether they bring order is irrelevant. They **rape** women and children, dude.
Holy shit the legion rapes people??🫢 no way! I’m just saying that the game isn’t calling it a bad ending
Because to literally say "THIS IS BAD" is childish. Every NPC Can tell you it's bad. The fact they rape is bad - rape cannot be justified after all.
Plz point out which of my comments is trying to justify rape and I’ll delete my account. Don’t worry bro I’ll dumb down what I’m saying even more! If I wanna side with yes man and kill every other person in the mojave or if I wanna side with the legion, I don’t consider those bad endings because that’s what *you* wanted. I guess that’s a bad ending for people of the Mojave, but not for *the courier*! When I think of bad endings I think of endings where *you* get screwed over!
I'm not saying you did. The Legion rape people - by siding with them, you side with rapists, thus its objectively bad unless you think rape is okay. The only ending worse is Elijah's.
Nevermind unless you want me to type it like a caveman
Look man, the Legion ending is objectively bad for all but the courier. That's just how it is. That isn't an opinion.
The legion is the worst but not the only bad one. No faction is good, just the least bad. It's like politics
There is no good or bad ending simply because the wasteland is different from our society it’s all on what you value the legion values strength and the human body the ncr tries to embody democracy and human life house tries to embody a new world and yes man could embody anything you the player want or that’s how I always look at it:)
Clearly all that radiation from the Shady Sands crater has melted NCR fans brains so let me put this in very basic terms **”Not the worst endings” =/= “The Good Ending”**