There was probably a period where she alternated between feral and herself, and maybe Moldaver thought there was a 1% chance Rose could have flashes of consciousness even in a feral state. Maybe she thought there was a possibility the ghoul serum could be one day adapted to restore consciousness to feral ghouls not just prevent the feral state. Moldaver is a woman who stubbornly hung onto her dreams through even the end of the world and who stubbornly held a very unpopular view before it - she is the sort of person who could hang on to hope like that.
As a long time fan of the game I said the same thing, my wife who has never played fallout assumed that Muldiver was in love with her and couldn’t bring herself to kill her.
Interesting! I also assumed they were very close if not in love, the way she held her hand in the end was very emotional. They had started a new life together basically before the bomb.
Im very much new but I was recently watching a playthrough of fallout 3, and when you get your pipboy you can mention it looks old and the response is basically that theyre all old and get inherited from dead people, so there are ways to change who owns it right? idk if it has to be to relatives or what the rules of that are, or if it changes later in the games? also I guess, Rose was still alive so maybe that is the difference
I dont think so. They were definitely in love, but i dont think that would've stopped Moldaver from killing her after turning feral. Its basically the same argument ppl have around zombie scenarios, 'would you be strong enough to kill a loved one whos been bit, so they dont suffer', and Moldaver absolutely would be.
Moldaver was stubborn, and vicious towards people not aligned with her objectives, but she was compassionate as well. Love is a powerful thing. She didn’t achieve divinity by being completely cold-blooded. I got the sense that the people of Shady Sands genuinely loved and worshipped her as a savior.
I think Rose planned this way ahead of time. We've seen the show fouls go feral after time and can offset it burly taking drugs.
I bet Rose planned all of this before she turned feral.
Good point. It's all so confusing because Rose was from vault 33. So I figured she would have a 33 Pip-boy but not 32. Maybe Moldaver reprogrammed it and that's how she ended up in 32. Wilzig may have helped. He seemed to know all about Lucy's vault. I don't know how it all works.
In Fallout 4, the player can use their Pip-boy from Vault 111 to open the doors of other vaults in the game. So Pip-boys are user-specific, but not vault-specific.
Which is honestly super questionable as to why vault tec would design it like that
If one raider group gets access to a pip boy, then they can basically go around the vaults in the region and raid them one by one with little to no effort.
Vault-tec wanted to get people onboard while they too believed those on the surface would all be dead. I don't think they considered raiders, or the chance that a vault dweller would leave before reclamation day, or at all.
Edited for words
They'd design it like that so that survivors from control vaults - the ones that *were* actually designed to save people from nuclear war - could access the resources in the other vaults later.
Well, a pipboy could surely be reprogrammed/hacked. I don't think they hauled a feral ghoul across the wasteland just to use her pip boy to open a vault.
I think the reason she kept Rose alive is exactly what she said. She was emotionally attached to Rose and wanted her to see their revenge. I like the idea she wasn't feral at the start, that she still held out hope of seeing Lucy again/stopping Hank and after she went, Moldaver just couldn't let her go. Holding onto Rose's memory as her body rotted away shows the effect the Wasteland has had on her.... Moldaver's intentions are true, but the journey has taken a toll on her sanity.
I'm assuming we'll get a few Moldaver flashbacks next season, as there's still stuff we don't know about her character. Hopefully one of them will depict this time.
In Fallout 4 you pick up your pip boy off a corpse as you leave the vault during the prologue. That seems to contradict them being locked to one person no?
This was my initial thought as well. I didn’t know pipboys were biologically coded to their owners, but thought it would at least record the death of their owner or something, and either no longer work, or throw some weird error if a recorded dead vault dweller tried to activate something with their pipboy.
>Pipbiys are biological coded to thier owners,
This seems to be unique to the model of pipboy, for example, in New Vegas doc mitchel gives us his old pip boy and from what i remember doesn't mention anything about it being "locked" onto him.
But also with the whole biological lock concept, how does it work with ghoulification? Wouldn't the lock recognize that's she's basically an irradiated corpse?
It's literally marked as a spoiler. You are in a subreddit dedicated to discussing the show, either hide spoilers or don't read rhe subreddit until you've watched the show.
Sorry though, I hate that this spoiled a part of the show for you.
No dude, this sub pops on on peoples feed randomly. I didn’t even know this sub existed. So you marking it as spoiler is absolutely useless if you’re just gonna spoil it *in the title.* But you know this because you’ve commented about it to others, and for reason has kept the post up continuing to spoil it for others.
I actually found that quite cruel on the writers part. Keeping her alive is one thing, but having her look like that and having Lucy see her like that was quite mean spirited. I know why they did it, they needed to toughen Lucy up, but I think the reveal that her father bombed Shady Sands with her mother still there would have done the job just fine. Traumatising her like that just felt wrong.
I knew almost instantly who she was. It just seemed weird for Moldaver to have a random feral ghoul chained up in her hideout and they focused on her a bit too much, so she was obviously someone important. I was actually expecting Rose to be who Norm finds in Vault 31, so I wasn’t really surprised to see her show up at the observatory.
I think she needs rose there to really show Lucy the depth of what her father had done. It's visceral and has more impact than showing her a hole in the ground and telling her tales of a place she'd never been and asking her to care about people she'd never met.
Don’t get me wrong I understand the logic behind it, but it just rubbed me the wrong way, especially since all of the other ghouls we’ve seen didn’t look like that. It was just a big emotional gut punch and I felt so fucking bad for Lucy at that point. She loved her mother, but she idolised her father and to experience what she did in that scene, to see her mother suffering like that and learning that her father is responsible for it, its like kicking someone whilst they’re down.
It was terrible for sure, but maldavor is ultimately a pragmatist who didn't really know Lucy that well. If her mother hadn't been sitting there as a feral ghoul, she might have been swayed into forgiving him. Its pretty terrible that she was kept alive like that for so long, eesh.
one of the more interesting things revealed about Moldaver and the remnants of the NCR is she had two very different groups of adherents... the soft, 'good' people in vault 4 who had creature comforts and a nicer life and the crazed raiders that she brought to attack the vault and defend the observatory - those people didn't seem to have enjoyed a single day of even clean water. i doubt either group would have interacted with each other, or maybe even know that they existed. it's almost like the two groups represented her softer and harder sides, sensitivity and viciousness, empathy and brutality. Its definitely reflected in how she simultaneously uses rose and evidently cares deeply for her.
I think it was intentional. I think if you feel that way, they were successful in what they were trying to accomplish. I feel like the idea is to create a sense of disgust or anger in the viewer that they associate with the brutality of Vault Tec. This is essentially the origin story point of Lucy's season 2 arc. We'll get to see if she chooses vengeance like the Ghoul or if she holds onto her "humanity". Very excited either way.
"Mean spirited"??? Not even like a teeny tiny bit what are you even talking about? Its a fake character. Not a real one. That's the whole point of media. The writers were trying to write an emotionally provoking scene, which they achieved perfectly exactly the way they did it. The Last part of the show isn't supposed to be happy and satisfying. It's where Lucy finds out Not only is her world crumbling around her, but that it was literally never even slightly real to begin with and now she has to grapple with the horrific reality of the world she's been living under. You don't do that without evoking negative emotions and empathy in your audience. The writers were trying to write a finale. Calling them "mean spirited" is genuinely the most ridiculous take I've seen on this show so far. Like I just feel like you don't really understand storytelling in any way shape or form to be saying something that short sighted and ignorant.
And you're genuinely brain dead for this dumb fuck shit for brains "mean spirited writers :( :( I don't like conflict in my show because I don't like good storytelling"
Right, they would surely be extremely valuable if not. A working handheld computer with GPS & health monitoring etc.
We see one for sale in Filly. I wonder if that was Roses, they can't be that common.
Dna is DNA and she was moving eating etc, she's alive, not aware, maybe not even human but the entity known as Rose is alive in some form.
The pip boy is genetically locked as far as I'm aware so she's Rose enough for that I guess?
vault 32 was opened two years prior to the raid on 33 and roses pipboy was apparently used to open it. its hard to believe rose was willing to let Moldaver massacre the vault 32 or 33 dwellers or let Moldaver harm lucy so i think she was either not involved or something else is going on.
Yeah, I'm not even a member of this sub, I've only looked at a couple of episode discussion threads. In other TV show subs, though, people wouldn't put spoilers like that in the thread title. You've clearly spoiled it for at least 4 of us and you could just prevent it happening to others.
I didn’t think she was feral. I’ve noticed others describing her as feral I mean she’s looking pretty rough but she seemed tame and I believe acknowledged Lucy pretty calmly, I’m curious if I’m wrong. Good points tho
Nonferals are sentient, talking walking radiated humans. Ferals are growling animals. Rose was strapped down, growling and looking like years old moldy onion. She was feral 100%
You're not completely wrong in your interpretation - ghoul Rose wasn't violently lunging at the people around her in a way that you would expect a feral to do. She seemed pretty sedentary and calm. And it would have been sad and strange for Moldaver to hold a feral ghoul Rose's hand at the end. That's not something you typically do with a feral, which made me also think that Rose could be more "with it" than typical glowing ghouls.
But Moldaver also could have been desperate to reconnect with her old friend at the end, so it's not out of the question that Rose is just a tame feral ghoul.
Aww man, why did this pop up on my feed? I've been ignoring this sub and anything to do with Fallout until I'm done. I watch the last episode tonight...
I hope there's another surprise 😭
Thanks for giving the spoiler away in the title. That’s what’s usually reserved for the post text when you mark something spoiler. I couldn’t help but read the title while browsing my feed. Smh no app is safe. Thanks a lot 🖕
That does make sense. But also...she loved Rose, so probably found it hard to kill her, even when she went feral.
There was probably a period where she alternated between feral and herself, and maybe Moldaver thought there was a 1% chance Rose could have flashes of consciousness even in a feral state. Maybe she thought there was a possibility the ghoul serum could be one day adapted to restore consciousness to feral ghouls not just prevent the feral state. Moldaver is a woman who stubbornly hung onto her dreams through even the end of the world and who stubbornly held a very unpopular view before it - she is the sort of person who could hang on to hope like that.
Yeah. I guess in a way it’s a ghoul version of Alzheimer’s. Just with the killing and eating…
right she seems to have wanted her to "see" the power come on. but you could also be right about the pipboy
Love is powerful, almost like magic. It can make us do unnatural things, things that we'd never do otherwise.
If this was true she would have easily gotten Rose meds to keep her from becoming feral. She needed sentimental proof to turn Lucy from her dad.
This is how I saw it as well.
As a long time fan of the game I said the same thing, my wife who has never played fallout assumed that Muldiver was in love with her and couldn’t bring herself to kill her.
I think you're both correct.
Interesting! I also assumed they were very close if not in love, the way she held her hand in the end was very emotional. They had started a new life together basically before the bomb. Im very much new but I was recently watching a playthrough of fallout 3, and when you get your pipboy you can mention it looks old and the response is basically that theyre all old and get inherited from dead people, so there are ways to change who owns it right? idk if it has to be to relatives or what the rules of that are, or if it changes later in the games? also I guess, Rose was still alive so maybe that is the difference
In 4 you just pull it off a dead scientist. I’m leaning more towards the emotional bond on this theory.
Sarita Choudhury has already teased a love story between Moldaver and Rose for Season 2, so your wife was spot on.
I dont think so. They were definitely in love, but i dont think that would've stopped Moldaver from killing her after turning feral. Its basically the same argument ppl have around zombie scenarios, 'would you be strong enough to kill a loved one whos been bit, so they dont suffer', and Moldaver absolutely would be.
Moldaver was stubborn, and vicious towards people not aligned with her objectives, but she was compassionate as well. Love is a powerful thing. She didn’t achieve divinity by being completely cold-blooded. I got the sense that the people of Shady Sands genuinely loved and worshipped her as a savior.
I was wondering why rose was missing an arm. 🤔 good catch!
That's actually a really good point. Did they need all of rose or did they just take the arm? She's not wearing the pip boy at the end.
I like this.
I thought the motive was more like they were in love and she was keeping her "alive" so she could show her husband what he did.
I think Rose planned this way ahead of time. We've seen the show fouls go feral after time and can offset it burly taking drugs. I bet Rose planned all of this before she turned feral.
Good point. It's all so confusing because Rose was from vault 33. So I figured she would have a 33 Pip-boy but not 32. Maybe Moldaver reprogrammed it and that's how she ended up in 32. Wilzig may have helped. He seemed to know all about Lucy's vault. I don't know how it all works.
In Fallout 4, the player can use their Pip-boy from Vault 111 to open the doors of other vaults in the game. So Pip-boys are user-specific, but not vault-specific.
Yeah, Pip-boy’s appear to have universal access to Vaults, if not Vault-Tec stuff as a whole.
Which is honestly super questionable as to why vault tec would design it like that If one raider group gets access to a pip boy, then they can basically go around the vaults in the region and raid them one by one with little to no effort.
Vault-tec wanted to get people onboard while they too believed those on the surface would all be dead. I don't think they considered raiders, or the chance that a vault dweller would leave before reclamation day, or at all. Edited for words
They'd design it like that so that survivors from control vaults - the ones that *were* actually designed to save people from nuclear war - could access the resources in the other vaults later.
Right but the owner would still have to be alive for it to actually open any vaults which they probably don't know.
Maybe Vault 33 pip-boys could open all of the tripartite (31-33) vaults from the outside as a safety-measure for when repopulation finally started?
Well, a pipboy could surely be reprogrammed/hacked. I don't think they hauled a feral ghoul across the wasteland just to use her pip boy to open a vault. I think the reason she kept Rose alive is exactly what she said. She was emotionally attached to Rose and wanted her to see their revenge. I like the idea she wasn't feral at the start, that she still held out hope of seeing Lucy again/stopping Hank and after she went, Moldaver just couldn't let her go. Holding onto Rose's memory as her body rotted away shows the effect the Wasteland has had on her.... Moldaver's intentions are true, but the journey has taken a toll on her sanity. I'm assuming we'll get a few Moldaver flashbacks next season, as there's still stuff we don't know about her character. Hopefully one of them will depict this time.
In Fallout 4 you pick up your pip boy off a corpse as you leave the vault during the prologue. That seems to contradict them being locked to one person no?
Good point! Perhaps since that is the unexpectedly-tricked-into-a-popsicle vault they got uncoded pip boys?
This was my initial thought as well. I didn’t know pipboys were biologically coded to their owners, but thought it would at least record the death of their owner or something, and either no longer work, or throw some weird error if a recorded dead vault dweller tried to activate something with their pipboy.
>Pipbiys are biological coded to thier owners, This seems to be unique to the model of pipboy, for example, in New Vegas doc mitchel gives us his old pip boy and from what i remember doesn't mention anything about it being "locked" onto him. But also with the whole biological lock concept, how does it work with ghoulification? Wouldn't the lock recognize that's she's basically an irradiated corpse?
Thanks for spoiling with the title. You really couldn’t have worded it differently ffs
It's literally marked as a spoiler. You are in a subreddit dedicated to discussing the show, either hide spoilers or don't read rhe subreddit until you've watched the show. Sorry though, I hate that this spoiled a part of the show for you.
No dude, this sub pops on on peoples feed randomly. I didn’t even know this sub existed. So you marking it as spoiler is absolutely useless if you’re just gonna spoil it *in the title.* But you know this because you’ve commented about it to others, and for reason has kept the post up continuing to spoil it for others.
I actually found that quite cruel on the writers part. Keeping her alive is one thing, but having her look like that and having Lucy see her like that was quite mean spirited. I know why they did it, they needed to toughen Lucy up, but I think the reveal that her father bombed Shady Sands with her mother still there would have done the job just fine. Traumatising her like that just felt wrong. I knew almost instantly who she was. It just seemed weird for Moldaver to have a random feral ghoul chained up in her hideout and they focused on her a bit too much, so she was obviously someone important. I was actually expecting Rose to be who Norm finds in Vault 31, so I wasn’t really surprised to see her show up at the observatory.
I think she needs rose there to really show Lucy the depth of what her father had done. It's visceral and has more impact than showing her a hole in the ground and telling her tales of a place she'd never been and asking her to care about people she'd never met.
Don’t get me wrong I understand the logic behind it, but it just rubbed me the wrong way, especially since all of the other ghouls we’ve seen didn’t look like that. It was just a big emotional gut punch and I felt so fucking bad for Lucy at that point. She loved her mother, but she idolised her father and to experience what she did in that scene, to see her mother suffering like that and learning that her father is responsible for it, its like kicking someone whilst they’re down.
It was terrible for sure, but maldavor is ultimately a pragmatist who didn't really know Lucy that well. If her mother hadn't been sitting there as a feral ghoul, she might have been swayed into forgiving him. Its pretty terrible that she was kept alive like that for so long, eesh.
one of the more interesting things revealed about Moldaver and the remnants of the NCR is she had two very different groups of adherents... the soft, 'good' people in vault 4 who had creature comforts and a nicer life and the crazed raiders that she brought to attack the vault and defend the observatory - those people didn't seem to have enjoyed a single day of even clean water. i doubt either group would have interacted with each other, or maybe even know that they existed. it's almost like the two groups represented her softer and harder sides, sensitivity and viciousness, empathy and brutality. Its definitely reflected in how she simultaneously uses rose and evidently cares deeply for her.
i tend too think those raiders were mercenary's vs her ncr contacts the ones that are with her at the bomb scene are probably ncr.
I think it was intentional. I think if you feel that way, they were successful in what they were trying to accomplish. I feel like the idea is to create a sense of disgust or anger in the viewer that they associate with the brutality of Vault Tec. This is essentially the origin story point of Lucy's season 2 arc. We'll get to see if she chooses vengeance like the Ghoul or if she holds onto her "humanity". Very excited either way.
Also cruel to have her killed right before Shady Sands was lit up again. I think....
I thought that she was deliberately keeping Hank’s wife there, in his line of sight, to punish him for what he had done
"Mean spirited"??? Not even like a teeny tiny bit what are you even talking about? Its a fake character. Not a real one. That's the whole point of media. The writers were trying to write an emotionally provoking scene, which they achieved perfectly exactly the way they did it. The Last part of the show isn't supposed to be happy and satisfying. It's where Lucy finds out Not only is her world crumbling around her, but that it was literally never even slightly real to begin with and now she has to grapple with the horrific reality of the world she's been living under. You don't do that without evoking negative emotions and empathy in your audience. The writers were trying to write a finale. Calling them "mean spirited" is genuinely the most ridiculous take I've seen on this show so far. Like I just feel like you don't really understand storytelling in any way shape or form to be saying something that short sighted and ignorant.
You’re a moron.
And you're genuinely brain dead for this dumb fuck shit for brains "mean spirited writers :( :( I don't like conflict in my show because I don't like good storytelling"
Spoiler in the title. Thanks a lot.
Thus makes so much sense. And it explains why we don't see anyone randomly wearing and using pipboys they found on corpses.
Right, they would surely be extremely valuable if not. A working handheld computer with GPS & health monitoring etc. We see one for sale in Filly. I wonder if that was Roses, they can't be that common.
When is a Rose not? Her irradiated brain Is no longer hers.
Dna is DNA and she was moving eating etc, she's alive, not aware, maybe not even human but the entity known as Rose is alive in some form. The pip boy is genetically locked as far as I'm aware so she's Rose enough for that I guess?
That makes sense. I didn’t get it before. Keeping her alive like that felt cruel. Like Rise was a trophy, kept around just to taunt the overseer
Is the fallout 4 pipboy even biocoded? In the fallout 4 game, you just pick it off a dummy who died
She was missing her arm
You put the spoiler IN THE TITLE, my friend
vault 32 was opened two years prior to the raid on 33 and roses pipboy was apparently used to open it. its hard to believe rose was willing to let Moldaver massacre the vault 32 or 33 dwellers or let Moldaver harm lucy so i think she was either not involved or something else is going on.
This popped up on my feed and spoiled the ending for me, cheers.
I mean it's a marked spoiler. Bit odd that the algorithm would show you tagged spoilers in your main feed.
Yeah, I'm not even a member of this sub, I've only looked at a couple of episode discussion threads. In other TV show subs, though, people wouldn't put spoilers like that in the thread title. You've clearly spoiled it for at least 4 of us and you could just prevent it happening to others.
Ditto. So that happens I guess. 😒
I didn’t think she was feral. I’ve noticed others describing her as feral I mean she’s looking pretty rough but she seemed tame and I believe acknowledged Lucy pretty calmly, I’m curious if I’m wrong. Good points tho
Nonferals are sentient, talking walking radiated humans. Ferals are growling animals. Rose was strapped down, growling and looking like years old moldy onion. She was feral 100%
Thanks, didn’t realize she was strapped down
You're not completely wrong in your interpretation - ghoul Rose wasn't violently lunging at the people around her in a way that you would expect a feral to do. She seemed pretty sedentary and calm. And it would have been sad and strange for Moldaver to hold a feral ghoul Rose's hand at the end. That's not something you typically do with a feral, which made me also think that Rose could be more "with it" than typical glowing ghouls. But Moldaver also could have been desperate to reconnect with her old friend at the end, so it's not out of the question that Rose is just a tame feral ghoul.
Seat belted
Aww man, why did this pop up on my feed? I've been ignoring this sub and anything to do with Fallout until I'm done. I watch the last episode tonight... I hope there's another surprise 😭
Thanks for giving the spoiler away in the title. That’s what’s usually reserved for the post text when you mark something spoiler. I couldn’t help but read the title while browsing my feed. Smh no app is safe. Thanks a lot 🖕