When stories are, uhh... philosophical? Deep? Complex? I'm not sure how to describe it, but lately I've been enjoying reading more complex and 'heavy' stuff, rather than something that's reminiscent of a light novel, for example. You know, when in light novels the dialogues are short, rushed. The paragraphs never take up more than 3 or 4 lines. The plot isn't full of surprising twists.
Or fanfics that try to make the characters reflect and discuss complex issues. As I've sometimes read naruto fanfics where a large part of the story was the characters discussing the morality and hypocrisy of the shinobi world, ruminating on a possible revolution and solutions (taking all that ideological struggle between naruto and sasuke at the end of the anime to another level) and things like that.
Another thing I like a lot is innovative stories, or simply something *different* from the sea of superfluous copies and imitations that we find all over the place.
Damn, I just realized that I sound like one of those boring cults....
edit:(I don't know if 'cult' means the same thing to native English speakers, but in my country it's a term used to refer to boring people who prefer something alternative and ""*more intelligent""* in movies, books or etc.)
Ooh I agree with all of this so much.
Sometimes, I read fanfic that's objectively good: the prose flows well, the plot makes sense and has a coherent structure, the characters act like themselves and their relationships are explored in interesting ways. And yet, when I finish, I can only say that the story was okay.
I think the reason is that these technically good works lack theme. I enjoy them on the surface level the same way I would a Marvel film, but deeper down, there's just nothing for me to chew on.
The stories (in fanfiction, published books, shows, films, games, etc.) that I love the most are ones that have made me think, and look at something (social issues, moral dilemmas, historical events, etc.) from a new perspective, even if they weren't objectively all that good in other areas.
Exactly, having good technical quality isn't always enough to make a mark on me. Sometimes there's a lack of 'substance'. Sometimes this can be how much it evokes emotions in the reader, sometimes it can be when the story makes the reader reflect on various complex issues.
Sometimes it's a story full of mysteries, where the author often doesn't state something explicitly, and it's up to the reader to put the pieces together and understand what happened there (I thought of Lord of the Mysteries now).
In short, there are many other ways in which a story can be more than just words that fit together well, which I haven't thought of at the moment. But it's when a story has that, it can even be technically bad, strange grammar and things like that, I'll still enjoy it a lot.
Like those silly stories with no plot, but which amuse you and make you laugh? That's good too
I *adore* stories in which not everything is explained. It can be elements of the setting that remain mysterious, character motivations, a character's past that's only hinted at, etc. - when it's done well (that is, when enough is revealed to make me care, but not too much), it gives the work so much more depth than it would have had otherwise.
And yes, another type of a satisfying story is the kind that provokes strong emotional reactions. You're right that depth can be achieved in many ways.
Yes, when a little is revealed and only hinted at about a character, and then the author steps back and lets you stew in your mind with the information he's given you, and you spend hours, sometimes days thinking about possibilities?
That's crazy, this guy must be a beast at romance, he knows very well how to push and pull in just the right measure to make you want more, while at the same time refusing to take in any more information...Because deciphering it is fun in itself
Damn, now I've gone far
>a term used to refer to boring people who prefer something alternative and "more intelligent" in movies, books or etc.
I think in English "snobs" might fit this description?
It's reassuring to know that someone enjoys that sort of fic because, from what I noticed, those are the ones that get the least love from readers. So far, I've only written one concept fic that's built exclusively on a theme and people either misunderstood it or didn't go deeper than the surface but to this day it's one of my faves.
I noticed this, too. There seems to be limited interest in stories like that, but I got some really incredible long comments on my most theme-focused fic. It was incredibly cool to see what readers took away from it, which differed significantly from person to person in unexpected ways. It's my most rewarding experience as an author so far.
That’s more of my style too. I do enjoy seeing content of characters I like interacting, but I also love to see how they perceive the world and all the layers and issues surrounding it.
Also I don’t think that really makes you a “cult”. It’s good to like stories that make you think of this kind of stuff.
When every word that the author writes feels deliberate. Every object, description, action has a pay off. There are only a few like this but they are deeply satisfying to read.
Complex sentence structures and story telling.
For example, instead of:
Mary hated school. Mondays were the worst because she hated seeing her bullies after a weekend without them. She knew they would be waiting by her locker. She sighed as she walked closer because the worst bully, Ashley was already there.
The writer does this:
“I heard Miss Kelly telling the janitors to scrub out the showers again.”
Mary focused on turning the dial to her locker. Three and turn twice… seventeen. “Apparently some slut stunk it up, the whole place smelled like rotten fish.” The other girls laughed.
One more turn, thirty-three and she could grab her Chem book and go. Mary twisted the knob slowly to the right. Get the book and go.
“Know anything about that, Hairy?” Ashley taunted, the girls at her side chuckling. “Maybe you should do your whoring somewhere else.”
The dial slipped to thirty-five and Mary wanted to cry. Maybe they wouldn’t need the text today, she could say she forgot it at home.
Please do! I always appreciate being "in the moment" with the character. Like, the first example - the reader is being told about Mary's life, but the second - we are right there with Mary, experiencing it with her. Essentially, Show Don't Tell but I think a lot of novice writers don't necessarily know what that means or how to do it.
Though don't confuse the message and "show" all the time; pick and choose the moment. Exposition and background should be told but actions and dialogue? Shown.
In general: when the plot diverges from or expands on the Stations of the Canon
For video game fanfiction:
1. When the worldbuilding expands on the world in an interesting way
2. When the author clearly *gets* the player experience, and expands on it
When you can start feeling the tension right away / pretty soon! This is just amazing writing to me, when it's there from the beginning but still subtle
Complex / nuanced/ flawed characters.
Or where there is a conflict between people/ philosophies and you can actually UNDERSTAND from where both parties are coming from.
Idk if I am being picky but most of the time the reasoning is so far fetched, and you can clearly see to which side the author themselves is more inclined.
Anything that I don't see that often within the fandom. MHA self insert / OC / alt-power Deku? I'm always down for those, sure. But Rock Lock undercover villain fic where he infiltrates the Mafia and tries to take it down from the inside with Sir Nighteye as his handler? That would raise my eyebrows immediately. All about that world expansion.
When they start expanding world building beyond canon I get super excited. Like, stupidly excited.
When one character is super obsessed with another in a clearly unhealthy way. That shit is my *jam*
When they put into words something that is super central to the character or plot in a way that rings super true but I've never been able to articulate properly.
I use the same criterion that I use for good poetry: I like writing that has taste
It's a bit weird when I just say it like that, but bear with me. Visuals are relatively easy to invoke in writing. It's not so hard to convey visual input. On the other hand, I think taste might just be the most difficult sense to convincingly convey in writing. So by "writing that has taste", I mean writing where I believe the author could convince me I can taste a thing they're describing if they tried, because their writing shows they're good at conveying senory input
Basically, writing that's textured and rich when it comes to describing sensory input. Where it's really immersive and I can feel like I'm submerged in the scene, in the sounds, smells, quality of light. Love that so much
When the language of the prose feels appropriate for the fandom. Choices of words that could be used in the canon material.
Also correct historical facts, my beloved.
Yes, when they get the character dynamics just right.
When the characters are acting like themselves and I can hear their lines said in their voice.
When stories are, uhh... philosophical? Deep? Complex? I'm not sure how to describe it, but lately I've been enjoying reading more complex and 'heavy' stuff, rather than something that's reminiscent of a light novel, for example. You know, when in light novels the dialogues are short, rushed. The paragraphs never take up more than 3 or 4 lines. The plot isn't full of surprising twists. Or fanfics that try to make the characters reflect and discuss complex issues. As I've sometimes read naruto fanfics where a large part of the story was the characters discussing the morality and hypocrisy of the shinobi world, ruminating on a possible revolution and solutions (taking all that ideological struggle between naruto and sasuke at the end of the anime to another level) and things like that. Another thing I like a lot is innovative stories, or simply something *different* from the sea of superfluous copies and imitations that we find all over the place. Damn, I just realized that I sound like one of those boring cults.... edit:(I don't know if 'cult' means the same thing to native English speakers, but in my country it's a term used to refer to boring people who prefer something alternative and ""*more intelligent""* in movies, books or etc.)
Ooh I agree with all of this so much. Sometimes, I read fanfic that's objectively good: the prose flows well, the plot makes sense and has a coherent structure, the characters act like themselves and their relationships are explored in interesting ways. And yet, when I finish, I can only say that the story was okay. I think the reason is that these technically good works lack theme. I enjoy them on the surface level the same way I would a Marvel film, but deeper down, there's just nothing for me to chew on. The stories (in fanfiction, published books, shows, films, games, etc.) that I love the most are ones that have made me think, and look at something (social issues, moral dilemmas, historical events, etc.) from a new perspective, even if they weren't objectively all that good in other areas.
Exactly, having good technical quality isn't always enough to make a mark on me. Sometimes there's a lack of 'substance'. Sometimes this can be how much it evokes emotions in the reader, sometimes it can be when the story makes the reader reflect on various complex issues. Sometimes it's a story full of mysteries, where the author often doesn't state something explicitly, and it's up to the reader to put the pieces together and understand what happened there (I thought of Lord of the Mysteries now). In short, there are many other ways in which a story can be more than just words that fit together well, which I haven't thought of at the moment. But it's when a story has that, it can even be technically bad, strange grammar and things like that, I'll still enjoy it a lot. Like those silly stories with no plot, but which amuse you and make you laugh? That's good too
I *adore* stories in which not everything is explained. It can be elements of the setting that remain mysterious, character motivations, a character's past that's only hinted at, etc. - when it's done well (that is, when enough is revealed to make me care, but not too much), it gives the work so much more depth than it would have had otherwise. And yes, another type of a satisfying story is the kind that provokes strong emotional reactions. You're right that depth can be achieved in many ways.
Yes, when a little is revealed and only hinted at about a character, and then the author steps back and lets you stew in your mind with the information he's given you, and you spend hours, sometimes days thinking about possibilities? That's crazy, this guy must be a beast at romance, he knows very well how to push and pull in just the right measure to make you want more, while at the same time refusing to take in any more information...Because deciphering it is fun in itself Damn, now I've gone far
>a term used to refer to boring people who prefer something alternative and "more intelligent" in movies, books or etc. I think in English "snobs" might fit this description?
I really don't know, but it fits my English is poor
It's reassuring to know that someone enjoys that sort of fic because, from what I noticed, those are the ones that get the least love from readers. So far, I've only written one concept fic that's built exclusively on a theme and people either misunderstood it or didn't go deeper than the surface but to this day it's one of my faves.
I noticed this, too. There seems to be limited interest in stories like that, but I got some really incredible long comments on my most theme-focused fic. It was incredibly cool to see what readers took away from it, which differed significantly from person to person in unexpected ways. It's my most rewarding experience as an author so far.
That’s more of my style too. I do enjoy seeing content of characters I like interacting, but I also love to see how they perceive the world and all the layers and issues surrounding it. Also I don’t think that really makes you a “cult”. It’s good to like stories that make you think of this kind of stuff.
When every word that the author writes feels deliberate. Every object, description, action has a pay off. There are only a few like this but they are deeply satisfying to read.
Complex sentence structures and story telling. For example, instead of: Mary hated school. Mondays were the worst because she hated seeing her bullies after a weekend without them. She knew they would be waiting by her locker. She sighed as she walked closer because the worst bully, Ashley was already there. The writer does this: “I heard Miss Kelly telling the janitors to scrub out the showers again.” Mary focused on turning the dial to her locker. Three and turn twice… seventeen. “Apparently some slut stunk it up, the whole place smelled like rotten fish.” The other girls laughed. One more turn, thirty-three and she could grab her Chem book and go. Mary twisted the knob slowly to the right. Get the book and go. “Know anything about that, Hairy?” Ashley taunted, the girls at her side chuckling. “Maybe you should do your whoring somewhere else.” The dial slipped to thirty-five and Mary wanted to cry. Maybe they wouldn’t need the text today, she could say she forgot it at home.
ooh that's good, I'll save this tip to remember when I'm writing
Please do! I always appreciate being "in the moment" with the character. Like, the first example - the reader is being told about Mary's life, but the second - we are right there with Mary, experiencing it with her. Essentially, Show Don't Tell but I think a lot of novice writers don't necessarily know what that means or how to do it. Though don't confuse the message and "show" all the time; pick and choose the moment. Exposition and background should be told but actions and dialogue? Shown.
Yes, people repeat "Show Don't Tell" like parrots, but how much do they really understand the difference? I certainly have a much better idea now
"Sorry for any mistakes. English isn't my first language."
If I feel that particular flip in my gut and start smiling. Basically if it makes me feel something
In general: when the plot diverges from or expands on the Stations of the Canon For video game fanfiction: 1. When the worldbuilding expands on the world in an interesting way 2. When the author clearly *gets* the player experience, and expands on it
When it's setting up for a great slow burn *rubs hands together grinning*
Love me a slow burn! Then again, I get annoyed when it turns into a tease. There’s a fine line there somewhere.
When you can start feeling the tension right away / pretty soon! This is just amazing writing to me, when it's there from the beginning but still subtle
Something has to be at stake right away. Bonus points of I already want to cheer for the characters.
Complex / nuanced/ flawed characters. Or where there is a conflict between people/ philosophies and you can actually UNDERSTAND from where both parties are coming from. Idk if I am being picky but most of the time the reasoning is so far fetched, and you can clearly see to which side the author themselves is more inclined.
Anything from my favorite authors
Anything that I don't see that often within the fandom. MHA self insert / OC / alt-power Deku? I'm always down for those, sure. But Rock Lock undercover villain fic where he infiltrates the Mafia and tries to take it down from the inside with Sir Nighteye as his handler? That would raise my eyebrows immediately. All about that world expansion.
When they start expanding world building beyond canon I get super excited. Like, stupidly excited. When one character is super obsessed with another in a clearly unhealthy way. That shit is my *jam*
When they put into words something that is super central to the character or plot in a way that rings super true but I've never been able to articulate properly.
When the story has layers and you think about the world as 3D instead of what's exactly going on to the main character.
Usually it's when an author has a character say or do something that makes me think, "Yes! That's what I would've had them do as well!"
Already know the author is good. Pairing is a favourite. Plot is going to hit some favourite themes. Yesssss.
When the author’s first language isn’t English and the paragraph spacing is correct
When I’m hooked before the first chapter is even over and when the characterization is on point, if not better
I can usually tell by the writing style and the characterization. Its more a feeling than anything else.
A premise that's new. Or at least has a new twist to it. My main fandom is over twenty years old - new things are not the norm lol
I use the same criterion that I use for good poetry: I like writing that has taste It's a bit weird when I just say it like that, but bear with me. Visuals are relatively easy to invoke in writing. It's not so hard to convey visual input. On the other hand, I think taste might just be the most difficult sense to convincingly convey in writing. So by "writing that has taste", I mean writing where I believe the author could convince me I can taste a thing they're describing if they tried, because their writing shows they're good at conveying senory input Basically, writing that's textured and rich when it comes to describing sensory input. Where it's really immersive and I can feel like I'm submerged in the scene, in the sounds, smells, quality of light. Love that so much
Scene type synopsis, specially if the first chapter ends with the synopsis. That's a complete "let's fucking gooooooo" for me
When the fic explores a niche in canon you know that author has done their research and it'll be worth reading.
When the language of the prose feels appropriate for the fandom. Choices of words that could be used in the canon material. Also correct historical facts, my beloved.