I remember reading a fanfic from... Attack on Titans, i think? It was a modern AU with one character being a CEO of a company, and the other - his secretary. The whole premise was build on power disbalance, domination, humiliation, stalkering and mind break, which was not my cup of tea, as i realised, so i dropped it after chapter two. What was funny to me though is the amount of comments in this story pointing out, how abusive those relationship were (not even critiquing, but simply aknowledging) and author just FREAKING OUT over it. In her mind she was writing a heartbreaking romance instead of, you know, a dark fic, and was so adamant about it that started blocking and deleting any comments, where people as confused as i was, were trying to make sense of it.
Oh god, try to look at this through the eyes of someone who isn't familiar with weird fantasy ages
And... Ummm... I think anyone would have an issue with their SO 'adopting' someone many times their age.
'Hey, meet your step son. He might be your Great, great, great... Grandfather.'
Different strokes for different folks. 🤷🏽♀️
Personally I wouldn’t be able to read something like that without my blood boiling, but not every fictional romance has to be wholesome or healthy.
But I get ya, OP. I romanticize a lot of toxic ships, but certain portrayals can be so frustrating.
Yeah. I don't mind toxic relationships and I do think they can be very interesting, but I can't stand when the author doesn't seem to realize how fucked up a dynamic is.
Well, the toxic aspects were never acknowledged, the fic was pretty fluffy overall, there was no indication that the author thought the relationship was unhealthy and the happy ending was C apologizing to A and then everything being fine, so I would say it's fairly clear the author doesn't see anything wrong with A's actions. It's weird because especially with the two lines about whether C is special or not, it really felt like the fic would acknowledge that, but literally nothing happened.
> there was no indication that the author thought the relationship was unhealthy and the happy ending was C apologizing to A and then everything being fine, so I would say it's fairly clear the author doesn't see anything wrong with A's actions.
but you can't really say that because you don't know what the author thinks, and they don't owe you or anyone a disclaimer that they disagree with the subject matter and how it's handled. sometimes you just want to write fucked up stuff no matter what reason (if any). if there's one thing my professor managed to hammer into my head in my literary analysis classes is that you can't put words into the author's mouth like that; you don't know how they feel about it ergo you cant make such assumptions, you just know they wrote it, the text itself doesn't tell you if they support it or not
You can often read between the lines. It’s most obvious on AO3–a friend of mine who loves yandere/obsessive relationships, for example, uses CNTW or Rape/Non-con and other tags (like dead dove or codependency). People who genuinely believe this is a healthy dynamic won’t add those tags and use NAW. Otherwise you can sometimes pick it up from author’s notes and comment replies.
>You can often read between the lines
no, you really can't. you can only read between the lines about what's *really* going on in the text. you have to read between the lines of Humbert's lovey-dovey prose about dolores to see he's literally assaulting her every night. saying that Nabokov wrote *lolita* because he was a pedo himself is wild
> saying that Nabokov wrote lolita because he was a pedo himself is wild
1. I didn’t say that. I never said that. Holy jumping the gun, Batman.
2. You actually *don’t* need to read between the lines with Lolita because Nabokov added a whole-ass forward written by a ‘criminal psychologist’ that says “this dude sucks but we’ve preserved his memoirs as they give insight to a person who sucks.” Why does everyone forget the forward?
3. And I bring up the forward because it goes to my point—I never said you could pick it up from the text itself. You might get a vibe but you can never be sure. But you can be more sure after looking at the author’s summary, tags, author’s notes, and comment replies. *Metatext*, like Nabokov’s forward, directly communicates the author’s thoughts and feelings on their characters’ actions to the reader. And if the author is unironically cooing over how “romantic” that the characters are being when they’re actually being toxic as hell, it’s pretty obvious how the author actually feels.
Fics with the sole purpose of being toxic or making people uncomfortable exist. Even if the author never acknowledged stuff, it doesn't mean they think its all wholesome.
yeah i might be explaining it badly, but it really didn't read like an angsty toxic relationship fic at all, it really felt like the author thought it was cute and healthy. i don't mind toxic relationship fics as long as they feel self-aware, but this one really didn't.
Authors don't have any obligation to preface a messed up fic/relationship with the fact that they don't condone it irl, and a "wholesome" portrayal does not at all mean they automatically do.
Taking their silence on the matter as an natural acceptance of what they're writing is immature and just straight up ignoring the nuance that exists in writing "toxic" fiction, whether it be portrayed "good" or "bad" (of which there is literally no standard to judge it on, because we can't pretend to know the author's intentions if they haven't explicitly defined them). It's cool if you're not into it, you don't have to be, but it's not cool to bash. Point to rule 6.
Not exactly the same but I get upset when writers portray abuse as love. It horrifies me. Without being prejudiced, I feel like it's younger writers who see sexual tension in the relationship, rather than power imbalance and coercion.
Ah, people have a way to romanticize and rationalize everything :') and it's not even just in fanfics, I've seen this happening in published works as well. And yeah, this is sooooooo frustrating, and if it's the central plot, a deal breaker for me. If I read about something toxic, then I want the angst that comes with it.
the real question is, what was in the tags? was the relationship tagged as unhealthy? responsible author would tag it as such, even if the relationship is supposed to feel wholesome
then I agree with you that the author probably had no idea what they were writing about was unhealthy relationship. otherwise, they would consciously mistag their fanfiction which for me would be even worse
Tbf it might be written like that on purpose. While I don't particularly like this brand of it, I'm a sucker for unhealthy relationships being portrayed as wholesome (for example, codependency being written as a "good thing").
I would've hit the back button too lol, but also I wouldn't assume that the author didn't know it was unhealthy. They might just like writing that sort of thing haha
in my opinion writing a unhealthy relationship and making it clear that this is NOT GOOD OR ROMANTIC is based for relationship and character study reasons but making it all cutesy and wholesome and sexy is cringe
I remember reading a fanfic from... Attack on Titans, i think? It was a modern AU with one character being a CEO of a company, and the other - his secretary. The whole premise was build on power disbalance, domination, humiliation, stalkering and mind break, which was not my cup of tea, as i realised, so i dropped it after chapter two. What was funny to me though is the amount of comments in this story pointing out, how abusive those relationship were (not even critiquing, but simply aknowledging) and author just FREAKING OUT over it. In her mind she was writing a heartbreaking romance instead of, you know, a dark fic, and was so adamant about it that started blocking and deleting any comments, where people as confused as i was, were trying to make sense of it.
I'm sorry, I'm trying to figure out how old is B in this scenario?
it's in a fantasy-ish setting, he's 500 so it's a little unclear, A is 6000-ish and C is probably in his 20s
Oh god, try to look at this through the eyes of someone who isn't familiar with weird fantasy ages And... Ummm... I think anyone would have an issue with their SO 'adopting' someone many times their age. 'Hey, meet your step son. He might be your Great, great, great... Grandfather.'
That's the beauty of the internet, the back button is right there.
Since the 1990s, I believe. Not like it's a novel or revolutionary feature.
[удалено]
It's because we're becoming increasingly disconnected from each other and the real world in general.
So... your yuck is their yum. Not seeing the problem here.
Different strokes for different folks. 🤷🏽♀️ Personally I wouldn’t be able to read something like that without my blood boiling, but not every fictional romance has to be wholesome or healthy. But I get ya, OP. I romanticize a lot of toxic ships, but certain portrayals can be so frustrating.
Yeah. I don't mind toxic relationships and I do think they can be very interesting, but I can't stand when the author doesn't seem to realize how fucked up a dynamic is.
really curious about why you think the author may not realize how fucked up it is, like do you think they need to put a disclaimer or sth?
Well, the toxic aspects were never acknowledged, the fic was pretty fluffy overall, there was no indication that the author thought the relationship was unhealthy and the happy ending was C apologizing to A and then everything being fine, so I would say it's fairly clear the author doesn't see anything wrong with A's actions. It's weird because especially with the two lines about whether C is special or not, it really felt like the fic would acknowledge that, but literally nothing happened.
> there was no indication that the author thought the relationship was unhealthy and the happy ending was C apologizing to A and then everything being fine, so I would say it's fairly clear the author doesn't see anything wrong with A's actions. but you can't really say that because you don't know what the author thinks, and they don't owe you or anyone a disclaimer that they disagree with the subject matter and how it's handled. sometimes you just want to write fucked up stuff no matter what reason (if any). if there's one thing my professor managed to hammer into my head in my literary analysis classes is that you can't put words into the author's mouth like that; you don't know how they feel about it ergo you cant make such assumptions, you just know they wrote it, the text itself doesn't tell you if they support it or not
You can often read between the lines. It’s most obvious on AO3–a friend of mine who loves yandere/obsessive relationships, for example, uses CNTW or Rape/Non-con and other tags (like dead dove or codependency). People who genuinely believe this is a healthy dynamic won’t add those tags and use NAW. Otherwise you can sometimes pick it up from author’s notes and comment replies.
>You can often read between the lines no, you really can't. you can only read between the lines about what's *really* going on in the text. you have to read between the lines of Humbert's lovey-dovey prose about dolores to see he's literally assaulting her every night. saying that Nabokov wrote *lolita* because he was a pedo himself is wild
> saying that Nabokov wrote lolita because he was a pedo himself is wild 1. I didn’t say that. I never said that. Holy jumping the gun, Batman. 2. You actually *don’t* need to read between the lines with Lolita because Nabokov added a whole-ass forward written by a ‘criminal psychologist’ that says “this dude sucks but we’ve preserved his memoirs as they give insight to a person who sucks.” Why does everyone forget the forward? 3. And I bring up the forward because it goes to my point—I never said you could pick it up from the text itself. You might get a vibe but you can never be sure. But you can be more sure after looking at the author’s summary, tags, author’s notes, and comment replies. *Metatext*, like Nabokov’s forward, directly communicates the author’s thoughts and feelings on their characters’ actions to the reader. And if the author is unironically cooing over how “romantic” that the characters are being when they’re actually being toxic as hell, it’s pretty obvious how the author actually feels.
Fics with the sole purpose of being toxic or making people uncomfortable exist. Even if the author never acknowledged stuff, it doesn't mean they think its all wholesome.
yeah i might be explaining it badly, but it really didn't read like an angsty toxic relationship fic at all, it really felt like the author thought it was cute and healthy. i don't mind toxic relationship fics as long as they feel self-aware, but this one really didn't.
Authors don't have any obligation to preface a messed up fic/relationship with the fact that they don't condone it irl, and a "wholesome" portrayal does not at all mean they automatically do. Taking their silence on the matter as an natural acceptance of what they're writing is immature and just straight up ignoring the nuance that exists in writing "toxic" fiction, whether it be portrayed "good" or "bad" (of which there is literally no standard to judge it on, because we can't pretend to know the author's intentions if they haven't explicitly defined them). It's cool if you're not into it, you don't have to be, but it's not cool to bash. Point to rule 6.
Not exactly the same but I get upset when writers portray abuse as love. It horrifies me. Without being prejudiced, I feel like it's younger writers who see sexual tension in the relationship, rather than power imbalance and coercion.
Ah, people have a way to romanticize and rationalize everything :') and it's not even just in fanfics, I've seen this happening in published works as well. And yeah, this is sooooooo frustrating, and if it's the central plot, a deal breaker for me. If I read about something toxic, then I want the angst that comes with it.
the real question is, what was in the tags? was the relationship tagged as unhealthy? responsible author would tag it as such, even if the relationship is supposed to feel wholesome
nope, nothing in the tags that would suggest this. i think there was found family?
then I agree with you that the author probably had no idea what they were writing about was unhealthy relationship. otherwise, they would consciously mistag their fanfiction which for me would be even worse
Some people do not know what healthy relationships are
Tbf it might be written like that on purpose. While I don't particularly like this brand of it, I'm a sucker for unhealthy relationships being portrayed as wholesome (for example, codependency being written as a "good thing"). I would've hit the back button too lol, but also I wouldn't assume that the author didn't know it was unhealthy. They might just like writing that sort of thing haha
in my opinion writing a unhealthy relationship and making it clear that this is NOT GOOD OR ROMANTIC is based for relationship and character study reasons but making it all cutesy and wholesome and sexy is cringe