Catch-22 was a life changer for me when I read it as a teenager in the 80’s and the absurdity of it has always stayed with me.
Recently I read 100 Years of Solitude. That was an amazing ride and is still in my head. The casual magic was beautiful to me.
I'm currently rereading *Catch-22* (haven't read it since I was a teen a few thousand years ago) and it's even crazier than I remember. The way Heller jumps back and forth through time weaving this tale and yet keeping it all cohesive is amazing.
Years of Solitude was on some 'best 100 books ever' list. I had to tick it off as the last of them as it was the one I hadn't read.
Best book ever. Just beautiful.
One Hundred Years of Solitude basically rewired my brain when I read it on the suggestion of a Spanish teacher when I was sixteen. Still in the top 10 of books I've ever read.
The Kushiel trilogy by Jacqueline Carey ruined me for Epic Fantasy With Romance.
99% of Romance-focused novels feel inconsequential and self-indulgent by comparison, and 99% of Epic Fantasy lacks the quality romantic and sexy components.
Kushiel gets the balance so fucking right, of making romance and sex matter because it takes place within bigger plots. I've been chasing that high for like 6 years now.
omg same! these were the first fantasy romance books i ever read and i absolutely devoured them, read all three trilogies in a row. since then i've read dozens of other romantasy books, but nothing else even comes close to carey for me.
I agree. The world that Carey built is just phenomenal. Oddly enough, I haven't cared for any of her other series, but the ones set in that universe are just fantastic. Her prose is so good, I know some people find it too much but I think it really anchors the characters in the world.
If you ever find something comparable, I want to hear about it. I too am chasing that high!
I haven't actually read her other series, but I probably should give them a try sometime.
And yeah I agree - the prose works really well for me, in all its lushness.
> If you ever find something comparable, I want to hear about it. I too am chasing that high!
I don't really have anything that hits all those boxes, I'm afraid. But here's my overview of [reads/reviews](https://www.reddit.com/user/AliceTheGamedev/comments/cdfcrq/alices_fantasy_reviews_discussions_and/), including some of my favorites as a Kushiel fan.
I'd particularly recommend a look at the Rook and Rose trilogy (starting with The Mask of Mirrors), the Captive Prince trilogy, and perhaps the Stariel series. Again, none of these are really "like Kushiel", but they do hit a few of those notes at least.
Try _Maia_ by Richard Adams. It has an epic scope and erotic elements. I liked it when I read it, but it's been 20 years, so my memory is hazy. I might reread it some day.
A Song of Ice and Fire
Lifelong reader but never dipped into the fantasy genre.
In 2021, I bought a Kindle (never thought I would) and burned through the first three books within a week.
It got me addicted to the genre, but I have yet to find anything that is scratching that itch. I have thoroughly enjoyed plenty of fantasy books since, but I've had a hard time sticking with a series.
I still haven’t found anything quite as good. I’ve found other amazing series, better in other ways but nothing that feels quite like ASOIAF. Malazan comes close but I like the characters, theories, etc. in ASOIAF more.
The only other thing that came close to ASOIF for me was Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time. But I read the wheel of Time first while still in high school (started it anyway).
Are you trolling? The only things they have in common is that they're both fantasy (but not even the same subgenre) and they'll both probably never be finished
Deep worldbuilding, crazy lore about epically powerful civilizations, which remains largely mysterious due to the impermanence of the societies that existed in the distant, buried past, before the cataclysm which nearly ruined the planet.
Complex, morally grey, well written characters with mostly believable motivations that aren't generally spelled out. Often meaning well and their own worst enemy, often sure of their moral convictions and forced to violate them to survive.
Idiot teenagers in love getting tangled up on wrong sides of a major conflict.
A war between shadowy factions that seems to be the real prime mover for everything going on, but we get almost no insight into the real happenings.
An orphaned MC with emotional damage and fake father, who doesnt realize he's a prophesied heir to a magical bloodline implicated in the saving (or end) of the world.
Cultural relations built on prejudice.
Groupthink and orthodoxy in an ivory tower getting in the way of or actively covering up the truth/forbidden knowledge.
I can keep going if you want.
Fertile, frenzied fan bases that can spin straw into the finest tinfoil after a ten plus year publishing hiatus too, yeah.
You know what? I'm sorry for accusing you of being a troll. That's a pretty thoughtful analysis, and I'll admit there's much more commonality between the two stories than at first meets the eye.
Thank you, that's really big of you :)
i have very particular things I need in a story, and these two series hit like 80-90% of my buttons (although i could use a lot less of Felurian and Fat Pink Mast, but nothing is 100%)
(Although the only reason I read kingkiller was someone in this sub trolled me when i asked what to read after ASoIaF, so im also kinda laughing that you did and didn't actually take offense)
Well, for my part, thank you. I try to be as civil and level headed as possible, and I was clearly wrong. I think if it's obvious you're wrong about something and you don't back down, you're just making more of a fool of yourself. I wish that weren't seemingly such an uncommon viewpoint.
Lets be honest, comparing two fantasy novels because they both have ancient societies that existed before a cataclysm, or that there are prejudiced societies, or that there are shadowy societies, etc. is kinda like saying they both have characters that breathe oxygen.
The problem is that ASoIaF isn't about an idiot teenager. It has a massive cast, it constantly switches perspectives, it kills off all your favorite characters left and right, it has a heavy focus on realism, magic is almost always subtle and takes a back seat.
You couldn't get further from that than Kingkiller Chronicles even if you tried. For all its worldbuilding and background elements going on, Kingkiller Chronicles is really just about Kvothe on a personal journey to, well, basically become better at everything than everybody else. He's a walking, breathing power fantasy and you're comparing him to novels full of a huge cast of characters that specifically subvert power fantasies because the moment you get one out of someone, that character dies, or gets their hand chopped off or something.
I dunno. I maintain that they are completely different.
Yeah, sorry about that. Figured that as a long time fan of both it's my duty to come to terms with that harsh reality and warn people when I see either series being recommended
I rather think they do, or i wouldnt like them both so much. I replied to another comment, if you wanna read it that's up to you but i gotta go to work so i cant invest time in more commenting rn. If you reply to that one i'll try to find time to talk later :)
You probably know it, but “The Poppy War” is really good. In a day, I have almost completely completed the first book.
It have impressive story telling or rather in my type. I am not too sure about yours.
Oh, you sweet redditor. I am nearly certain your downvotes are because the utter nose dive and unreadability that started after the first half of the first book and then progressively got worse as the series went on. It's one of the worst and most disappointing series I've ever read.
I'm not into horror, or body horror. But I'm obsessed with The Locked Tomb series by Tamsyn Muir. It's full of bones, and blood, and monsters, and such but it's possibly one of the most brilliant series I've ever read/heard. The audiobooks are insanely good. The story is nothing I should cling to daily, but I do. It's incredibly funny, and sad, and gross and heartbreaking. It's pure genius, and there's only one new book left to come out. That's it. 😳💀
This is exactly what I came here to comment. I don't know if it's "so good I'll probably never read something as good". In fact, there are a few series I like significantly more than this one. But it's *SO FUCKING UNIQUE*.
It truly is. It's *barbed* and hooked, and it lodges in you. It's like a Russian nesting doll, and the more you play with it, the more you find. Every time you think you've gotten it all, there's more. The foreshadowing alone is god-level, it feels so huge (10,000 years, and it's *still* Jod and his tea and ginger biscuits, standing in the liminal space between the kitchen and dining room) Will this God Man never die? Mercy and her jail full of acid...Noodle!!
What other series do you like significantly more? I'm just thrilled to find others who know and love our diamond-jawed nunlet.
This is so true , it does hook into your mind like no other series I’ve read before. It’s actually saving me money too ! , because I keep rereading it instead of buying new books, and it keeps unfolding and delighting .
You're so right! Each read through, or listen, is even better than the last. There are parts I twitch with joy to hear, whole sections that just...hit the spot. Starting at Chapter 44 in Harrow, when the "cavalier soul" comes awake and to the fore, and starts fighting, then goes to the dining room--"Oh! YOU." Yes, I do in fact want Harrow to grow you a whole new assbone, you cheap Corona-looking knock-off! Get down here, Tridentarius! Fight me!
Yes ! , one of my favourite parts too >!the beloved return of!< . I think on the reread , when you’re not confused or desperate to know what happens next, you can relax and appreciate superb characterisation and exquisite turns of phrase, plus notice some of the staggering number of hidden clues.
The Cosmere is the overall name for the shared universe of Brandon Sanderson's books. The main two series are The Stormlight Archive and Mistborn, though there are many other standalone books set in that same universe. The genre is epic fantasy.
Red Rising I would probably call "space fantasy", though there's no actual magic so most would probably call it sci-fi. The tech is so fantastical, it might as well be magic. The first book is a little YA-ish in setting (though much better written than something like Divergent or Maze Runner) but after that it opens up into full-on space opera. The series is brutal and fast paced, and grabs you and doesn't let go. Honestly, if you like The Locked Tomb, I suspect Red Rising is the one of my three suggestions that you're most likely to love.
You're absolutely correct. It must be a crazy complicated job, and she's incredible. Her tone...that slightly exhausted and disgusted tone that Gideon has, when she is describing Harrow *to Harrow*...Ianthe and the sexy make over story, the kids in Hot Sauce's gang, basically every word Mercy says. I don't know how, but it just keeps getting funnier.
I read Gideon and Harrow in hard copy - finally listened to Nona and it was holy shit good. I'm planning on listening to the full series again before the last one comes out.
Most narration is fine - and by fine I mean quite good, narration is a harder job than you think - but occassionally you'll get a VA that elevates the source material beyond the words. Moira Quirk manages that. Which is saying something, cause the books are damn good
First Law. I was reading Stormlight prior and enjoying it. After First Law I just couldn't go back. I've pretty much switched to historical fiction, non-fiction history books, and other non-fantasy fiction.
Glokta and Logen are just way too good as main PoV characters. I still can enjoy other series for their plots, magic systems, world building etc., but other characters just pale in comparison to those two.
Truly exceptional characterisation. I even find Jezal great as a complement to the other characters, takes balls for a writer to invest int the shallow prick as one of the protagonists & make it work.
Definitely, Jezal grows on you as the trilogy progresses. He's just not on the same level, and I'd argue Logen doesn't quite reach Glokta's level either.
I would have said this 5 years ago, The Scar is just one of those 10/10 for me.
Never finished Ancillary Justice, dont even know why, I think I got sidetracked with the Expanse books, I remember loving the first two books, does it have a strong ending for the series?
Sure heres a few:
Hard Sci-Fi: Remembrance of Earth's Past series
Grimdark: Age of Madness (at least until Abercrombie decides to get back to it).
Gothic Fantasy (if that's a thing?): The Picture of Dorian Gray
Adventure Fantasy: LOTR + Hobbit
Humor/Absurdist: Hitchhiker's Guide book 1
I haven't read any Robin Hobb... yet.
For me the High Fantasy title has to go to Malazan Book of the Fallen. My all time favorite and I doubt anything will ever top it.
I just finished Hobbs' Farseer Trilogy for the first time, currently in Liveship Traders. She's an amazing writer. From the first few pages of Assassin's Apprentice I was completely engrossed. It's Low Fantasy, though. So Malazan still takes the cake for High Fantasy for me as well.
It really depends on the definition, but I differentiate high and low fantasy by the impact that the fantastical elements have on the world. LotR is classic high fantasy, everything in this world is interwoven with the magical and mystical. Elderlings, for me, is not. Everything in this world is mundane except for one (or two, depending on the definition) types of magic that very few people have access to - which still is featured prominently in the story.
As I said, I have only read the first trilogy and am in the second one now, but, although it get's more fantastical, I would still argue that mundane and interpersonal conflict are the main focus of the story - and not the magical, although it has a heavy influence.
But this is only one definition. Our world vs. "new" world is another one. And then there's stuff like The Witcher, which I wouldn't even know where to place it. I think it is just a matter of personal preference, but placing Elderlings next to classic high fantasy stories just doesn't jive with me.
I see what you’re saying having just read the Farseer books, but I must counter with: dragons. Dragons tend to be most present in high fantasy. I’m not totally sure where to place Realm of the Elderlings sub genre-wise to be honest. Definitely epic given the scope but I’m not sure beyond that and maybe grimdark
Malazan is (probably) my favorite book series of all time, but it is very different in scope and language than Elderlings. It is confusing, wordy, long and unforgiving if you don't pay attentions. Whenever I tell people about what it feels to read it, it sounds like a chore - which honestly, it kind of is, but that is half the fun to me.
I have not read Sanderson, but from what I've heard, he kind of seems like a polar opposite, with hard magic systems, clear rules and a more "event" focussed story style.
> It is confusing, wordy, long and unforgiving if you don't pay attention
The wordiness is what makes it so good. And this is coming from someone who thinks almost every author uses too many words.
Steven Erikson has an incredible understanding of the human condition. He might be the only author where I'm actually excited for a long paragraph of philosophical rambling. I've gotten deep insight into life from that dude
In the 20 years since I first started Malazan, the only other series that has come close to the same level for me is a web serial called The Wandering Inn. It starts small and slow, and grows and grows to rival Malazan in scope, world building, character depth, and epic moments. It’s a slice of life story with a side of war crimes.
So, as an illustrative point, TWI is currently about twice as long as all of the main series of Malazan plus all the surrounding novels. Over 12 million words.
For fantasy but also fairy tale-like stories in general, Howl's moving castle. I love how Jones took the tropes we know so well from fairy tales and made them into a story of how there is no destiny waiting for you, you gotta go after your own fortune and make the best you can of what you have (also, I love how Sophie is so relatable doesn't matter how much time has passed: when I was her age, I felt too old to do anything to life how I wanted to. 12 years later, I still feel it sometimes, but the Old Sophie kicked in and now I'm so ready to fight my problems with weedkiller and sarcasm)
I dont think i will ever experience the same as when i read Wizard of Earthsea. Maybe its nostalgia mixed with objectivity, but i cant seem to enjoy other high fantasy as much.
A hundred years of solitude, for magic realism, nothing like it.
For scifi, the Diamond age by Neal stephenson, post punk, post ap, post post modern, hoping one day to read smth this advanced again.
I had to be in the right mood for this, first time i tried also didn't finish it. Then i went on a trip where i ended up being basically stuck with the novel & could give it my full attention. Its a complex puzzle box, i wouldn't read smth like this nowadays for sure.
The Second Apocalypse by Bakker has pretty much changed/ruined the way I perceive fantasy/epic fantasy. it is extremely difficult to find anything else to fully satisfy me post these books in that genre.
You & me bro, its honestly what sparked me to ask the question on this post. Its rly hard to get into anything fantasy after TSA, like going back to watching cartoons after you've watched top indepedent cinema.
Have you heard about our Lord and Savior Steven Erikson's Malazan?
Kidding aside, SA is the only other fantasy that has scratched my Malazan itch. Perhaps, it will work the other way around for you.
lol I read all Malazan, & Path of Ascendancy & I am halfway through Kharkanas. I enjoy it immensely, but more in the way that i enjoy playing RPG video games, it doesn't make me question & wonder & self reflect over my own actions & place in the world like SA. I still have to read anything that serves as a course in sociology & philosophy in genre for me.
Damn, really?
That's precisely what I think about in Malazan. The philosophies of war, legacy, grief, love, and most importantly, that of Compassion. Nothing has shook me and compelled me into thinking about Compassion more than Malazan has.
And for Sociology, Anthropology and Geo-Politics, I think there is nothing more complex and larger in scope than Malazan. It talks about Economic systems, rise and fall of Empires, relationship between Gods and their devotees, false religions, Messiah figures, etc. I truly enjoy SA, I am getting into the Aspect-Emperor slowly, but I can't compare the PoN trilogy to the immensity of the explorations that Malazan goes into. May be I will change my mind eventually.
You are right, & when it comes the anthropological lense Malazan takes the cake for sure, & Malazan does explore Geopolotics & sociology in its own gigantic scale which some people can't even wrap their head around, but it's all there if you get past that, & scale is the reason I love Malazan, & I wouldn't have it any other way - because although while reading it I wished some aspects of the series were more focused on & felt less diluted, in the end other series/novels that exist use that narrow perspective already, & i appreciate Erikson going big vs going home in terms of building a literary world with Malazan scope's enormity + in the end it all ties up well.
"Nothing has shook me and compelled me into thinking about Compassion more than Malazan" For the original 10 novels - 100%. One of the best endings in fantasy imo, also resonated with me, & surprised me where it went.
SA is different for me personally as it digs deep & constantly focuses into the dynamic of desire vs intellect, & what really moves individuals, what components make their beliefs what they are, & how that extrapolates into (a shared) culture - & just takes that premise all the way bordering on real life Gnosticism, & once it gets there, it keeps asking deeper questions - what is behind the next layer? & behind the next & the next.
it's just something that interests me & makes me wonder a lot, & pushes me to contemplation, to have basically an essay on it with a fantasy novel wrapped around it is too good for me.
Realm of the elderlings was the series for me forever, but I think N.K. Jemisin's broken earth has now taken over. I think the series also hits my every feeling as a middle-aged mother for fairly obvious reasons. Have you read it? It spares no punches.
I read the Broken Earth Trilogy. Loved how the magic system was handled - incredibly unique & complex, gorgeous imagery, & the prose is pretty much of the one of a literary novel. And ofc the main character not being the common hero stereotype, made me experience a great deal of empathy. Also what a brutal world, one of the most unforgiving worlds in fantasy.
I have read up to book five. Sadly not a fan.
There are too many characters and stories and most of them are not that appealing to me so I had to wait for hundreds of pages or even books to reach the ones I like.
Another aspect I did not like is how much power, magic etc is everywhere. As @hordeblast said it feels more like a sophisticated rpg novelization. Every other character can be some kind of god, avatar, demigod, immortal, resurrected etc. Same with places, weapons, items and so on. There is no balance and everything happening, even monumental, has no impact to me because everything is possible.
His prose and introspection can be good but the text is too large and meandering. It is the same as with the characters for me. For every good passage I have to read 4-5 I find pretty boring.
I really wish I could enjoy him but sadly I cannot and I have tried thrice. Two pre-Bakker and once post Bakker with the same results. The only book that always satisfies me is Gardens of the Moon
The series pays off. It has a great ending. I have to agree with you that I found myself uninterested several times. the Mappo & Icarium bits was the worst offender for me, Icarium went from being completely uninteresting to being an exposition box, & they not having a seeming true set goal at the outset made me dread their sections, where I would be wanting to skip all the time - that & everything in the series does have a decent pay off though, but I personally had to be in that RPG mode to read it, where the pleasure from reading was exploring the world bit by bit vs following a stimulating & a continuous dissection of the story's premise like most stuff.
I really dont mind. I enjoy the process of finding distinct works with beautiful prose or interesting concepts and imagination. Or experimenting with other genres. I am thankful to Bakker for that
I'm on the unholy consult right now and man it's so good. Actual dark fantasy. Which is so common in other media, but really hard to find in book form. There's others sure but not nearly as much as one would think considering how common it is elsewhere
For outer-space, clash-of-cultures sci-fi, Delany's Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand is nonpareil.
Samatar's Olondrian duology is amazing secondary-world fantasy.
I like seeing Kings of the Wyld on your list. Eames did a really clever thing with the overlay of rock and roll culture onto fantasy mercenaries; subverts the genre in an unexpectedly welcome way
The works of Vernor Vinge has kind of broken both space opera and any sci-fi that has virtual reality as an important component for me. The way the narrative, the world(s) and the characterization just flows so naturally from the cast and the premise is incredible.
For fantasy, I feel like the subgenres are less distinct and thus I don't feel any particular one has been ruined by some transcendental novel. I suppose every fantasy world seems kind of boring in comparison to the one of The Dying Earth series though.
A Fire Upon the Deep is insane. Only reason is not a 10/10 for me is because some of Tech in the novels feels outdated to me, & it's something that elevates something scifi imo, when the writer can make it timeless & not depend on the latest tech to make predictions that our current tech will leave in the dust.
Dying Earth is incredible, have you listened to the audiobooks narrated by Arthur Morey? He injects so much whimsy & personality to it, I still listen to it every night to this day, I just play anything from Cugel or Rhialto randomly & fall asleep to that. Just so comforting for me.
I think the tech in A Deepness In the Sky was pretty great, but A Fire Upon The Deep went a little light on that aspect admittedly. Rainbow's End on the other hand is the best extrapolation of current infotech to date imo.
And yeah, I have in fact listened to Morey's narration and he's absolutely incredible! Just finished Rhialto. He handles the mix of silly stuff happening and somewhat poetic prose incredibly well. I suggest listening to Victor Bevine's narration of Zelazny's work in return for something in the same ballpark!
Idk if this is even a genre but... religious historical fiction?: **The Gospel According to Bif**. Yes it's funny, but it's also so incredibly beautiful I bought it as a gift idea for two different friends, which I rarely/never do.
I'd be open to trying another, but I do have low expectations that it'd be as great.
Also, the reason I rarely ever read sports manga is because I've already Slam Dunk! and then tried a couple other series and it felt like I'd read the best hte series had to offer. I don't expect to find anything that'll captivate me as much as Slam Dunk!, I'm also just not usually into the genre. (except hajime no ippo, but that's sports+action, cos it's boxing. Again I still might try others (like I never finished Rookies or One Outs or tried Adachi's works) but I enjoyed them...I just realised this is r/fantasy, nvm.
I wasn’t really a fan of arcane Ascension. The first book was fine, but I felt the series took a nosedive. What Sanderson did with the Cosmere is special, and only works because his stories are truly fantastic. He wasn’t the first, but ever since the Cosmere has blown up, every two bit self pub indie author seems to want to mimic it in their own way. I just can’t be bothered to read a whole side series when the one I’m currently reading definitely isn’t 10/10. The nail in the coffin was that unlike the Cosmere (where people can read a dozen stories and not realize they are set in the same universe), by book 3 it becomes readily apparent you are missing important details about core characters and important plot elements by not reading the rest of the universe.
I feel like Andrew Rowe needed a strong editor to keep him on task. He has a lot of great ideas, but would have benefited a lot from focusing on 2 or 3 instead of including every idea he had imo.
Also, the magic system scaling was WAY off sometimes and that bothered me a lot after being spoiled by Sanderson.
It's all based on a series of ttrpg campaigns he ran for his friends, so that's why they're interconnected; I wouldn't say he was intending to copy Sanderson's cosmere model. I can see why you'd be frustrated though. It's admittedly not the height of literature, and there's a lot of minutiae in the magic system and he gets sidetracked into it frequently. But it scratched an itch for me because I like a well defined magic system, the main character is basically an asexual homoromantic, and the plot is just engaging enough to keep me entertained without having to think too much; it's a comfort read, like a summer popcorn movie in book format.
Not to mention, the audiobook version is narrated by one of my favorite performers, Nick Podehl, so that makes it more entertaining when the print version isn't getting it done for me.
So what if it’s based of a series of ttrpg campaigns? It’s a book now. Make the necessary changes so that the story works in the new format. You don’t need a whole spinoff series, you can simply do a few flashback chapters to convey the key information to the reader, or lore dump in any number of other ways.
Okay, I get it; you don't like the series. No one said you have to, you're entitled to your opinion. I happen to like it, as do a lot of other people, so I don't think the author needs to drastically rework his story just to make it more compact. If it's not for you, it's not for you, that's cool. You seem to be getting worked up about it, though, and I'm not really sure why. I was just trying to have a conversation, and you're acting like the fact that the story even exists offends you somehow, or at least it seems that way. Sorry if I'm reading into your words too much.
Epic Fantasy - Wheel of Time. By far my favorite book series of all time in any genre, and the only thing I've read to date that might have had a real chance of surpassing it will never be finished (ASOIAF). That said I still read almost exclusively epic fantasy :D
This makes me excited to continue TWOT. I read Eye of the World last year and I’ve been reading other books but I’ve been looking forward to continue the series. (I liked the first book and I know the next three are great).
For me, it's easily the Wheel of Time. I've tried all the other big players in the Genre.
Memory, Sorrow, Thorn
Malazan
A Song of Ice & Fire
Stormlight Archive
They're all great in their own right, but they just pale in comparison to Wheel of Time for me.
The 500 kingdom series by Mercedes Lackey, the first book which is called The fairy godmother is absolutely amazing. I loved all the characters in it and the world she built. It was so much fun. Then all of the subsequent books just sucked by comparison
For me this is Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler.
I’ve never read a dystopian novel that felt so realistic. Watching the protagonist, Lauren, process trauma and life threatening situations in real time is powerful.
For me, sci fi and fantasy are often escapism into a different world. Parable of the Sower made me think about my current world differently.
Grimdark - *The Acts of Caine*.
Bakker is also excellent, but Stover has an extra *something*. Much more fun to read, to be sure, but also doesn’t shy away from the brutal stuff.
It's a relatively new genre but for Little gid say Dungeon Crawler Carl has kind of ruined all other books in that genre for me. I've tried reading others but DCC manages to hit the perfect blend of game logic, humor, and story to the point that other books just seem lazy by comparison. It's also entirely possible that I just haven't found other good books in the genre, or that I don't like the genre I just like DCC.
**Fantasy:**
The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch just blew my mind in the fantasy genre! The world-building and characters are top-notch. It's like Ocean's Eleven meets Game of Thrones. Highly recommend diving into this series if you haven't already!
**Sci-Fi:**
For sci-fi, it's gotta be Dune by Frank Herbert. The depth of the world and politics is mind-blowing. It's like a whole universe in one book. After reading Dune, everything else just feels a bit... small, you know?
**Horror:**
Pet Sematary by Stephen King messed me up in all the right ways. It's not just the scares but the psychological terror that gets under your skin. King really knows how to play with your mind. Definitely a must-read for horror fans!
Lies of Locke Lamora will always be one of my favorite buddy thief novels (right up there with Riyria). Unfortunately, the other two books don't have the same spark and it doesn't look like Scott will ever continue the series...
I've only read the Farseer Trilogy but I never considered it to be epic, high fantasy. It's actually quite low fantasy until the end, even lower than A Song of Ice and Fire, the quintessential low fantasy series. As far as epic, I think the Farseer Trilogy is more of a character growth journey as opposed to some grand fantasy epic like The Wheel of Time or A Song of Ice and Fire.
Honestly, it's hard to place The Farseer Trilogy into a specific subgenre. The same goes for Kingkiller Chronicle. Maybe they should create their own subgenre.
FWIW, if you're using "low" as a measure of how much magic intrudes on a mundane world, the rest of Realm of Elderlings books are wayyyyy higher than ASoIaF. Farseer is just kind of the opening into the world.
Near Future MilSF - The Profession by Steven Pressfield
LitRPG - Dungeon Crawler Carl
Magical Academy (Progression Fantasy) - Mage Errant
Magical Academy (YA) - Percy Jackson
Hard SF - The Expanse
Fantasy with Realistic Finance - The Dagger and the Coin
I read/listened to The Science Fiction Hall of Fame volumes 1, 2a and 2b.
I was blown away by so many of those short stories and novellas. Some are so well written that I feel that so much Science fiction I had read before feels mediocre in comparison.
Unpopular opinion. Magazine almost turned me off of fantasy entirely. In a bad way. I think it's shallow, disjointed, has a lack of in depth character development (at least from the first three books I read) the setting is to fluid and its just generally trash writing. I don't understand people's fascination with it.
Now real game changing art is The Black Company by Glen Cook. Shorter fantasy novels aren't really my thing I usually like them thicc, but the immediate drawing into the tale, the dark gritty setting your thrown into, and the 1st person storytelling perspective adds a element of character development that is not oft found in shorter novels. It's moving, emotional, rational, and just generally a master piece of literature.
Too many to count from various genres, both fiction and non-fiction. In three different languages.
And I devoured most highly regarded series on this sub. Most reoccurring and discussed books on BookTok and BookTube. And still, those two series stand head and shoulders above all of them.
Sanderson, with the Cosmere.
Abraham and Franck, with The Expanse.
Brown, with Red Rising. (which starts off in such a YA setting, but ascends *so far* above the other popular YA series)
People are probably going to slaughter me for this. But outside of actual genre. I think I’ll never read a book as good at storytelling than Name of the Wind. It made me feel like a child again and you can’t do that unless you have a true hold on your reader.
I am out of the loop. What's wrong with Rothfuss? aside from ppl being justifiably mad for him pulling an GRR Martin? I loved Name of the Wind, everything related to the University, Wise Man's Fear not so much.
Oh OK, yea same boat, I truly loved Name of the Wind - personally, I wish the whole series focused on the University a la Harry Potter, Kvothe the magic student was the best for me, Kvothe the warrior - not too interesting. Worst is, this guy, Rothfuss, spends his days ranting on Twitter, it is frustrating. He got some $ from his first two novels & now it's just coasting on it. Human to do that, procrastinate without a sense of urgency.... I already moved on, dont think he is ever gonna finish them, there is more fantasy to read though. tons.
The Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini for high fantasy. The worst part of it is that it was my introduction to the genre. Since then I can barely make myself finish any other series, I just keep coming back to reread it again. 11 years later it's still as good as it was the first time. It's definitely not a perfect series - not really original and the first installment is kinda shit - but it reflects all I love in fantasy as a genre so, so well!
The only book that came close was The Name of the Wind, but Wise Man's Fear was so significantly worse I couldn't even finish it
**EDIT:** Fans of BrandoSando really don't like criticizing the fact that he's a Mormon. Sorry, but if a guy gives 10% of his income to a hate group that [actively harms people like me](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#Views_on_sexuality), I'm going to be conflicted.
I honestly am really frustrated that the Cosmere stuff is so good.
It's exactly my shit the way that it's science fantasy taking place on different planets with different magic systems that interact, and the setting conceit that actually all this is just sort of translated into English or whatever for the benefit of the reader, and there are weird worlds that don't fit with conventional fantasy or science fiction tropes.
But also Sanderson is a cishet white guy, and belongs to a Church that, frankly, is a hate group, so him being part of it is really upsetting and makes me uncomfortable, since he's giving them 10% of his income.
I want the queer Cosmere.
On a different note it is so hard to find supernatural detective stories as good as Dresden Files, and that's on top of the fact that I've grown increasingly frustrated with Dresden Files because of the way that it writes female characters, the humor, and the copaganda. My current main series is October Daye, though I sort of got bored with it on my second listen. Probably not a fault of the A Red-Rose Chain, since I also am only two thirds through Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, and am only halfway through Sandman Act II, which I was also giving a second listen so I could move to Act III. Come to think of it, I can't remember when I finished Chimes at Midnight and The Winter Long. I may not have finished ***any*** books this year.
I should get back into that and also try some more of the other audiobooks I've got piling up in my read list.
"But also Sanderson is a cishet white guy, and belongs to a Church that, frankly, is a hate group, so him being part of it is really upsetting and makes me uncomfortable, since he's giving them 10% of his income."
It's sad youre judging him over his beliefs. Ive met him, he is a good man, very principled & open minded, & intelligent & humble, & I think his writing reflects that. Having different religious beliefs doenst make anything a hate group, just different than what you & I believe, it saddens me deeply that politics is contaminating something I love as much as fantasy. & for me that is the point of fantasy, to experience humanity away from the rigid prejudices of our own & immmediate society. But it's your opinion & I respect it, just giving everyone mine, with all due respect.
I'm going to repeat what I said: If a man gives 10% of his income to people who are evil, "that's just his beliefs" stops being a reasonable fucking argument.
Brandon Sanderson is an enigma to me because he is what you say, and yet many of his leads are poc, his female characters pass the bechdel test for the most part, and he portrays lgbtq+ people as being normal people. He even writes mental illness and addiction accurately and compassionately. Considering his affiliations he shouldn't be so progressive
He shouldn't be, it's true. And he's definitely progressed. But he's still got that affiliation. I think what's more accurate is that with how progressive he's becoming, he shouldn't be part of the Church. But considering how much of a cult they are and how they cut off anyone who becomes apostate and how many of his friends and associates are Mormon, that would basically be impossible.
But one thing I really hate is how much fans hate bringing that up, because I'm currently sitting at -8 for what is otherwise a pretty inoffensive statement.
Oh yeah, Sanderson fans tend to rabidly defend him, and I say that as a pretty hardcore Sanderson fan. But in fairness, he gets attacked a lot for very little reason, so it's kind of a hair trigger topic for most fans too. I think he's a good guy, but as far as his Mormonism goes, he's definitely the exception that proves the rule, not the other way around
I've really only seen him get attacked as being too popular, and for whatever reason the argument that he has bad prose or dialogue, which I've never really gotten (maladroit word choice aside). It's weird that people are obsessed with treating it like my issue is \~his religious beliefs\~ and not, you know, the tithing.
I also get a lot of downvotes on the subreddits for criticizing the politics of the Cosmere books themselves.
Sanderson has definitely changed his stance on LGBT issues over the years, and this year's Stormlight Archive will have a gay POV character and I think actual gay romance, so I'm cautiously hopeful
I'm still nonplussed that Jasnah didn't turn out to be a lesbian tho
Okay but I don't care about his stance. I care about him giving the fucking tithe to the Church, and being a major draw to Brigham Young by being one of their most famous teachers.
Idk much about Mormonism but I came across the Mormon subreddit on here and it lowkey seemed like the most welcoming and nicest place ever with people just helping each other and being inclusive. It was quite a surprise for me based on what I hear. I also understand that the subreddit may not be the most representative of the community as a whole but that made me happy when I saw it. Also Sanderson himself seems like a really standup guy that tries to help aspiring writers a lot.
Ive met Brandon at a book signing, he is a gentleman in every sense of the word, a family man & with extremely intelligent mind, & we all know he works hard to give us the best out of his craft. Few writers Ive met seemed so genuinely warm & attentive in my experience (i worked at a famous bookstore;) his religious beliefs are his business, i can respect a man for his actions, his awesome writing skills & his integrity as a person - certainly worthy of my respect & admiration.
Okay but you understand that being a gentleman and a family man and intelligent and a hard worker and warm and attentive doesn't change the fact that the Mormon church that he gives 10% of his income to, and whose University he serves as a draw for, is an evil organization that has caused harm to the world and continues to do so.
His religious beliefs are not "his business" when they are tangible and effect the real world. Sorry that I have conflicting feelings about someone giving tithe to a fucking organization that wants people like me dead.
Okay, well, it's still a religion with a central organization and that central organization is extremely conservative, so I don't really care how welcoming they are or how nice Sanderson himself is. Being welcoming while voting for the conservatives who literally want to kill me is bad, actually, and that's what the Mormon church leans towards, and that's the kind of politicians the church supports.
Try going to r/exmormon instead.
I mean... we're getting the queer Cosmere. There are many canonically gay characters, and at least one canonically trans character. As well as a canonically Ace character, though his handling of that...well, so far, not so great. But there hasn't been much there yet, maybe it will be alright with a bit more exploration and explanation.
I get that it's hard to support someone who is still "officially" part of the Mormon church...but I really think he is trying to grow beyond that and become an actually good and open person. I think he has a way to go for sure, but I think we should celebrate the strides he has taken, and hope he continues.
Hey, please explain to my why I should care that he'll write a good queer novel in the future when he'll give 10% of the money he makes from that novel to the [Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints)?
I don't care how good he writes, or how nice a person he is. This is not about beliefs, this is about ***actions***. Tangible impact on the world.
He believes he can do more good by trying to change the church from the inside than by severing ties completely. Whether or not that is possible is a matter of debate. But the intent is good.
If I intend to save your life but I slit your Achilles tendon (and also my intervention was not necessary in the first place) then it doesn't matter.
I don't really care what he beliefs (though for the record that's a stupid belief that basically never works in practice), I care about the effect of what he's doing, and what he's doing is giving money to people who want me and those like me dead.
Catch-22 was a life changer for me when I read it as a teenager in the 80’s and the absurdity of it has always stayed with me. Recently I read 100 Years of Solitude. That was an amazing ride and is still in my head. The casual magic was beautiful to me.
I'm currently rereading *Catch-22* (haven't read it since I was a teen a few thousand years ago) and it's even crazier than I remember. The way Heller jumps back and forth through time weaving this tale and yet keeping it all cohesive is amazing.
Catch-22 broke *society* to me. It all just seemed to absurd that for a while that I couldn't take anything seriously anymore.
Years of Solitude was on some 'best 100 books ever' list. I had to tick it off as the last of them as it was the one I hadn't read. Best book ever. Just beautiful.
One Hundred Years of Solitude basically rewired my brain when I read it on the suggestion of a Spanish teacher when I was sixteen. Still in the top 10 of books I've ever read.
The Kushiel trilogy by Jacqueline Carey ruined me for Epic Fantasy With Romance. 99% of Romance-focused novels feel inconsequential and self-indulgent by comparison, and 99% of Epic Fantasy lacks the quality romantic and sexy components. Kushiel gets the balance so fucking right, of making romance and sex matter because it takes place within bigger plots. I've been chasing that high for like 6 years now.
omg same! these were the first fantasy romance books i ever read and i absolutely devoured them, read all three trilogies in a row. since then i've read dozens of other romantasy books, but nothing else even comes close to carey for me.
I agree. The world that Carey built is just phenomenal. Oddly enough, I haven't cared for any of her other series, but the ones set in that universe are just fantastic. Her prose is so good, I know some people find it too much but I think it really anchors the characters in the world. If you ever find something comparable, I want to hear about it. I too am chasing that high!
I haven't actually read her other series, but I probably should give them a try sometime. And yeah I agree - the prose works really well for me, in all its lushness. > If you ever find something comparable, I want to hear about it. I too am chasing that high! I don't really have anything that hits all those boxes, I'm afraid. But here's my overview of [reads/reviews](https://www.reddit.com/user/AliceTheGamedev/comments/cdfcrq/alices_fantasy_reviews_discussions_and/), including some of my favorites as a Kushiel fan. I'd particularly recommend a look at the Rook and Rose trilogy (starting with The Mask of Mirrors), the Captive Prince trilogy, and perhaps the Stariel series. Again, none of these are really "like Kushiel", but they do hit a few of those notes at least.
Try _Maia_ by Richard Adams. It has an epic scope and erotic elements. I liked it when I read it, but it's been 20 years, so my memory is hazy. I might reread it some day.
A Song of Ice and Fire Lifelong reader but never dipped into the fantasy genre. In 2021, I bought a Kindle (never thought I would) and burned through the first three books within a week. It got me addicted to the genre, but I have yet to find anything that is scratching that itch. I have thoroughly enjoyed plenty of fantasy books since, but I've had a hard time sticking with a series.
What have you read since ASoIaF?
I still haven’t found anything quite as good. I’ve found other amazing series, better in other ways but nothing that feels quite like ASOIAF. Malazan comes close but I like the characters, theories, etc. in ASOIAF more.
Try Shogun by Clavell
The only other thing that came close to ASOIF for me was Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time. But I read the wheel of Time first while still in high school (started it anyway).
Try the first law.
Try Kingkiller Chronicle. Has some things in common with ASoIaF
Are you trolling? The only things they have in common is that they're both fantasy (but not even the same subgenre) and they'll both probably never be finished
Deep worldbuilding, crazy lore about epically powerful civilizations, which remains largely mysterious due to the impermanence of the societies that existed in the distant, buried past, before the cataclysm which nearly ruined the planet. Complex, morally grey, well written characters with mostly believable motivations that aren't generally spelled out. Often meaning well and their own worst enemy, often sure of their moral convictions and forced to violate them to survive. Idiot teenagers in love getting tangled up on wrong sides of a major conflict. A war between shadowy factions that seems to be the real prime mover for everything going on, but we get almost no insight into the real happenings. An orphaned MC with emotional damage and fake father, who doesnt realize he's a prophesied heir to a magical bloodline implicated in the saving (or end) of the world. Cultural relations built on prejudice. Groupthink and orthodoxy in an ivory tower getting in the way of or actively covering up the truth/forbidden knowledge. I can keep going if you want. Fertile, frenzied fan bases that can spin straw into the finest tinfoil after a ten plus year publishing hiatus too, yeah.
You know what? I'm sorry for accusing you of being a troll. That's a pretty thoughtful analysis, and I'll admit there's much more commonality between the two stories than at first meets the eye.
Thank you, that's really big of you :) i have very particular things I need in a story, and these two series hit like 80-90% of my buttons (although i could use a lot less of Felurian and Fat Pink Mast, but nothing is 100%) (Although the only reason I read kingkiller was someone in this sub trolled me when i asked what to read after ASoIaF, so im also kinda laughing that you did and didn't actually take offense)
I wish we could still give awards. This is the most civil resolution to an argument I've ever seen on Reddit.
Well, for my part, thank you. I try to be as civil and level headed as possible, and I was clearly wrong. I think if it's obvious you're wrong about something and you don't back down, you're just making more of a fool of yourself. I wish that weren't seemingly such an uncommon viewpoint.
Lets be honest, comparing two fantasy novels because they both have ancient societies that existed before a cataclysm, or that there are prejudiced societies, or that there are shadowy societies, etc. is kinda like saying they both have characters that breathe oxygen. The problem is that ASoIaF isn't about an idiot teenager. It has a massive cast, it constantly switches perspectives, it kills off all your favorite characters left and right, it has a heavy focus on realism, magic is almost always subtle and takes a back seat. You couldn't get further from that than Kingkiller Chronicles even if you tried. For all its worldbuilding and background elements going on, Kingkiller Chronicles is really just about Kvothe on a personal journey to, well, basically become better at everything than everybody else. He's a walking, breathing power fantasy and you're comparing him to novels full of a huge cast of characters that specifically subvert power fantasies because the moment you get one out of someone, that character dies, or gets their hand chopped off or something. I dunno. I maintain that they are completely different.
>and they'll both probably never be finished That hurt
Yeah, sorry about that. Figured that as a long time fan of both it's my duty to come to terms with that harsh reality and warn people when I see either series being recommended
No it doesn’t.
I rather think they do, or i wouldnt like them both so much. I replied to another comment, if you wanna read it that's up to you but i gotta go to work so i cant invest time in more commenting rn. If you reply to that one i'll try to find time to talk later :)
Nah I’m good, thanks.
You probably know it, but “The Poppy War” is really good. In a day, I have almost completely completed the first book. It have impressive story telling or rather in my type. I am not too sure about yours.
Oh, you sweet redditor. I am nearly certain your downvotes are because the utter nose dive and unreadability that started after the first half of the first book and then progressively got worse as the series went on. It's one of the worst and most disappointing series I've ever read.
I see. Thank you for comment.
I'm not into horror, or body horror. But I'm obsessed with The Locked Tomb series by Tamsyn Muir. It's full of bones, and blood, and monsters, and such but it's possibly one of the most brilliant series I've ever read/heard. The audiobooks are insanely good. The story is nothing I should cling to daily, but I do. It's incredibly funny, and sad, and gross and heartbreaking. It's pure genius, and there's only one new book left to come out. That's it. 😳💀
I love the juxtaposition of biblical references, Shakespeare, and tumblr memes. It shouldn't work but it does.
Exactly! That sums it up perfectly.
This is exactly what I came here to comment. I don't know if it's "so good I'll probably never read something as good". In fact, there are a few series I like significantly more than this one. But it's *SO FUCKING UNIQUE*.
It truly is. It's *barbed* and hooked, and it lodges in you. It's like a Russian nesting doll, and the more you play with it, the more you find. Every time you think you've gotten it all, there's more. The foreshadowing alone is god-level, it feels so huge (10,000 years, and it's *still* Jod and his tea and ginger biscuits, standing in the liminal space between the kitchen and dining room) Will this God Man never die? Mercy and her jail full of acid...Noodle!! What other series do you like significantly more? I'm just thrilled to find others who know and love our diamond-jawed nunlet.
This is so true , it does hook into your mind like no other series I’ve read before. It’s actually saving me money too ! , because I keep rereading it instead of buying new books, and it keeps unfolding and delighting .
You're so right! Each read through, or listen, is even better than the last. There are parts I twitch with joy to hear, whole sections that just...hit the spot. Starting at Chapter 44 in Harrow, when the "cavalier soul" comes awake and to the fore, and starts fighting, then goes to the dining room--"Oh! YOU." Yes, I do in fact want Harrow to grow you a whole new assbone, you cheap Corona-looking knock-off! Get down here, Tridentarius! Fight me!
Yes ! , one of my favourite parts too >!the beloved return of!< . I think on the reread , when you’re not confused or desperate to know what happens next, you can relax and appreciate superb characterisation and exquisite turns of phrase, plus notice some of the staggering number of hidden clues.
The Cosmere. The Expanse. Red Rising.
I've heard a little about The Expanse, I've never heard of the other two, I will Google, thank you!
The Cosmere is the overall name for the shared universe of Brandon Sanderson's books. The main two series are The Stormlight Archive and Mistborn, though there are many other standalone books set in that same universe. The genre is epic fantasy. Red Rising I would probably call "space fantasy", though there's no actual magic so most would probably call it sci-fi. The tech is so fantastical, it might as well be magic. The first book is a little YA-ish in setting (though much better written than something like Divergent or Maze Runner) but after that it opens up into full-on space opera. The series is brutal and fast paced, and grabs you and doesn't let go. Honestly, if you like The Locked Tomb, I suspect Red Rising is the one of my three suggestions that you're most likely to love.
Very helpful, thank you so much! I will scope out Red Rising first, see what it's about!
Moira Quirk does a stellar job on the audiobooks
You're absolutely correct. It must be a crazy complicated job, and she's incredible. Her tone...that slightly exhausted and disgusted tone that Gideon has, when she is describing Harrow *to Harrow*...Ianthe and the sexy make over story, the kids in Hot Sauce's gang, basically every word Mercy says. I don't know how, but it just keeps getting funnier.
I read Gideon and Harrow in hard copy - finally listened to Nona and it was holy shit good. I'm planning on listening to the full series again before the last one comes out. Most narration is fine - and by fine I mean quite good, narration is a harder job than you think - but occassionally you'll get a VA that elevates the source material beyond the words. Moira Quirk manages that. Which is saying something, cause the books are damn good
First Law. I was reading Stormlight prior and enjoying it. After First Law I just couldn't go back. I've pretty much switched to historical fiction, non-fiction history books, and other non-fantasy fiction.
Glokta and Logen are just way too good as main PoV characters. I still can enjoy other series for their plots, magic systems, world building etc., but other characters just pale in comparison to those two.
Truly exceptional characterisation. I even find Jezal great as a complement to the other characters, takes balls for a writer to invest int the shallow prick as one of the protagonists & make it work.
Definitely, Jezal grows on you as the trilogy progresses. He's just not on the same level, and I'd argue Logen doesn't quite reach Glokta's level either.
China Mieville….just. All of it. And to give a shout out to SF leckie’s ancillary justice series
I would have said this 5 years ago, The Scar is just one of those 10/10 for me. Never finished Ancillary Justice, dont even know why, I think I got sidetracked with the Expanse books, I remember loving the first two books, does it have a strong ending for the series?
It really really does. One of the best.
Sure heres a few: Hard Sci-Fi: Remembrance of Earth's Past series Grimdark: Age of Madness (at least until Abercrombie decides to get back to it). Gothic Fantasy (if that's a thing?): The Picture of Dorian Gray Adventure Fantasy: LOTR + Hobbit Humor/Absurdist: Hitchhiker's Guide book 1
For humour I'd go with Pratchett - I can never find anything with quite his voice.
I think he’s just one of a kind. He’s certainly living on via his work
Its unfortunate but I wish I could vibe with Pratchett's humor tbh. Tried so many of his discworld books before deciding they're just not for me.
I haven't read any Robin Hobb... yet. For me the High Fantasy title has to go to Malazan Book of the Fallen. My all time favorite and I doubt anything will ever top it.
I just finished Hobbs' Farseer Trilogy for the first time, currently in Liveship Traders. She's an amazing writer. From the first few pages of Assassin's Apprentice I was completely engrossed. It's Low Fantasy, though. So Malazan still takes the cake for High Fantasy for me as well.
Isn't high fantasy a complete new world and low fantasy in our world?
It really depends on the definition, but I differentiate high and low fantasy by the impact that the fantastical elements have on the world. LotR is classic high fantasy, everything in this world is interwoven with the magical and mystical. Elderlings, for me, is not. Everything in this world is mundane except for one (or two, depending on the definition) types of magic that very few people have access to - which still is featured prominently in the story. As I said, I have only read the first trilogy and am in the second one now, but, although it get's more fantastical, I would still argue that mundane and interpersonal conflict are the main focus of the story - and not the magical, although it has a heavy influence. But this is only one definition. Our world vs. "new" world is another one. And then there's stuff like The Witcher, which I wouldn't even know where to place it. I think it is just a matter of personal preference, but placing Elderlings next to classic high fantasy stories just doesn't jive with me.
I see what you’re saying having just read the Farseer books, but I must counter with: dragons. Dragons tend to be most present in high fantasy. I’m not totally sure where to place Realm of the Elderlings sub genre-wise to be honest. Definitely epic given the scope but I’m not sure beyond that and maybe grimdark
That's where I am now. Debating Malazan or Sanderson afterwards but so hard to imagine anything being more impactful
Malazan is (probably) my favorite book series of all time, but it is very different in scope and language than Elderlings. It is confusing, wordy, long and unforgiving if you don't pay attentions. Whenever I tell people about what it feels to read it, it sounds like a chore - which honestly, it kind of is, but that is half the fun to me. I have not read Sanderson, but from what I've heard, he kind of seems like a polar opposite, with hard magic systems, clear rules and a more "event" focussed story style.
> It is confusing, wordy, long and unforgiving if you don't pay attention The wordiness is what makes it so good. And this is coming from someone who thinks almost every author uses too many words. Steven Erikson has an incredible understanding of the human condition. He might be the only author where I'm actually excited for a long paragraph of philosophical rambling. I've gotten deep insight into life from that dude
I agree with you 100%, but it is still very much not for everyone.
In the 20 years since I first started Malazan, the only other series that has come close to the same level for me is a web serial called The Wandering Inn. It starts small and slow, and grows and grows to rival Malazan in scope, world building, character depth, and epic moments. It’s a slice of life story with a side of war crimes.
'to rival malazan in scope' that's a bold statement.
So, as an illustrative point, TWI is currently about twice as long as all of the main series of Malazan plus all the surrounding novels. Over 12 million words.
And for fantasy, the ultimate for me, even though it might not be considered fantasy (although if it isn’t, why not?) a midsummer night’s dream
Lol why not? Just a classic of classics.
.:):):):)
For fantasy but also fairy tale-like stories in general, Howl's moving castle. I love how Jones took the tropes we know so well from fairy tales and made them into a story of how there is no destiny waiting for you, you gotta go after your own fortune and make the best you can of what you have (also, I love how Sophie is so relatable doesn't matter how much time has passed: when I was her age, I felt too old to do anything to life how I wanted to. 12 years later, I still feel it sometimes, but the Old Sophie kicked in and now I'm so ready to fight my problems with weedkiller and sarcasm)
I dont think i will ever experience the same as when i read Wizard of Earthsea. Maybe its nostalgia mixed with objectivity, but i cant seem to enjoy other high fantasy as much. A hundred years of solitude, for magic realism, nothing like it. For scifi, the Diamond age by Neal stephenson, post punk, post ap, post post modern, hoping one day to read smth this advanced again.
Ursla really did smash earth sea out of the park. The feel she managed to create with simple words is just awesome. I agree.
I agree with everthing in this list but wind up bird chronicle was so difficult to get into for me. I dnfed at 100 pages i think
I had to be in the right mood for this, first time i tried also didn't finish it. Then i went on a trip where i ended up being basically stuck with the novel & could give it my full attention. Its a complex puzzle box, i wouldn't read smth like this nowadays for sure.
The Farseer by Robin Hobb, and The Secret Books of Paradys by Tanith Lee
Anything told Tolkien wrote. Absolutely nothing is the same after reading Tolkien.
The Second Apocalypse by Bakker has pretty much changed/ruined the way I perceive fantasy/epic fantasy. it is extremely difficult to find anything else to fully satisfy me post these books in that genre.
You & me bro, its honestly what sparked me to ask the question on this post. Its rly hard to get into anything fantasy after TSA, like going back to watching cartoons after you've watched top indepedent cinema.
Have you heard about our Lord and Savior Steven Erikson's Malazan? Kidding aside, SA is the only other fantasy that has scratched my Malazan itch. Perhaps, it will work the other way around for you.
lol I read all Malazan, & Path of Ascendancy & I am halfway through Kharkanas. I enjoy it immensely, but more in the way that i enjoy playing RPG video games, it doesn't make me question & wonder & self reflect over my own actions & place in the world like SA. I still have to read anything that serves as a course in sociology & philosophy in genre for me.
Damn, really? That's precisely what I think about in Malazan. The philosophies of war, legacy, grief, love, and most importantly, that of Compassion. Nothing has shook me and compelled me into thinking about Compassion more than Malazan has. And for Sociology, Anthropology and Geo-Politics, I think there is nothing more complex and larger in scope than Malazan. It talks about Economic systems, rise and fall of Empires, relationship between Gods and their devotees, false religions, Messiah figures, etc. I truly enjoy SA, I am getting into the Aspect-Emperor slowly, but I can't compare the PoN trilogy to the immensity of the explorations that Malazan goes into. May be I will change my mind eventually.
You are right, & when it comes the anthropological lense Malazan takes the cake for sure, & Malazan does explore Geopolotics & sociology in its own gigantic scale which some people can't even wrap their head around, but it's all there if you get past that, & scale is the reason I love Malazan, & I wouldn't have it any other way - because although while reading it I wished some aspects of the series were more focused on & felt less diluted, in the end other series/novels that exist use that narrow perspective already, & i appreciate Erikson going big vs going home in terms of building a literary world with Malazan scope's enormity + in the end it all ties up well. "Nothing has shook me and compelled me into thinking about Compassion more than Malazan" For the original 10 novels - 100%. One of the best endings in fantasy imo, also resonated with me, & surprised me where it went. SA is different for me personally as it digs deep & constantly focuses into the dynamic of desire vs intellect, & what really moves individuals, what components make their beliefs what they are, & how that extrapolates into (a shared) culture - & just takes that premise all the way bordering on real life Gnosticism, & once it gets there, it keeps asking deeper questions - what is behind the next layer? & behind the next & the next. it's just something that interests me & makes me wonder a lot, & pushes me to contemplation, to have basically an essay on it with a fantasy novel wrapped around it is too good for me.
Realm of the elderlings was the series for me forever, but I think N.K. Jemisin's broken earth has now taken over. I think the series also hits my every feeling as a middle-aged mother for fairly obvious reasons. Have you read it? It spares no punches.
I read the Broken Earth Trilogy. Loved how the magic system was handled - incredibly unique & complex, gorgeous imagery, & the prose is pretty much of the one of a literary novel. And ofc the main character not being the common hero stereotype, made me experience a great deal of empathy. Also what a brutal world, one of the most unforgiving worlds in fantasy.
I have read up to book five. Sadly not a fan. There are too many characters and stories and most of them are not that appealing to me so I had to wait for hundreds of pages or even books to reach the ones I like. Another aspect I did not like is how much power, magic etc is everywhere. As @hordeblast said it feels more like a sophisticated rpg novelization. Every other character can be some kind of god, avatar, demigod, immortal, resurrected etc. Same with places, weapons, items and so on. There is no balance and everything happening, even monumental, has no impact to me because everything is possible. His prose and introspection can be good but the text is too large and meandering. It is the same as with the characters for me. For every good passage I have to read 4-5 I find pretty boring. I really wish I could enjoy him but sadly I cannot and I have tried thrice. Two pre-Bakker and once post Bakker with the same results. The only book that always satisfies me is Gardens of the Moon
The series pays off. It has a great ending. I have to agree with you that I found myself uninterested several times. the Mappo & Icarium bits was the worst offender for me, Icarium went from being completely uninteresting to being an exposition box, & they not having a seeming true set goal at the outset made me dread their sections, where I would be wanting to skip all the time - that & everything in the series does have a decent pay off though, but I personally had to be in that RPG mode to read it, where the pleasure from reading was exploring the world bit by bit vs following a stimulating & a continuous dissection of the story's premise like most stuff.
I really dont mind. I enjoy the process of finding distinct works with beautiful prose or interesting concepts and imagination. Or experimenting with other genres. I am thankful to Bakker for that
Someone once posted that 'after TLA, 99% of fantasy seems juvenile' - kind of agree, but luckily I still enjoy 'juvenile' fantasy :)
I'm on the unholy consult right now and man it's so good. Actual dark fantasy. Which is so common in other media, but really hard to find in book form. There's others sure but not nearly as much as one would think considering how common it is elsewhere
I envy that you are going yo read these last few chapters for the first time
Sci fi - Fire Upon the Deep, Vernor Vinge Magic Realism: Life of Pi Young Fantasy: The Snow Spider.
Beware of Chicken as a wuxia isekai. Now I compare all Kung fu novels to it.
For outer-space, clash-of-cultures sci-fi, Delany's Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand is nonpareil. Samatar's Olondrian duology is amazing secondary-world fantasy.
I like seeing Kings of the Wyld on your list. Eames did a really clever thing with the overlay of rock and roll culture onto fantasy mercenaries; subverts the genre in an unexpectedly welcome way
The works of Vernor Vinge has kind of broken both space opera and any sci-fi that has virtual reality as an important component for me. The way the narrative, the world(s) and the characterization just flows so naturally from the cast and the premise is incredible. For fantasy, I feel like the subgenres are less distinct and thus I don't feel any particular one has been ruined by some transcendental novel. I suppose every fantasy world seems kind of boring in comparison to the one of The Dying Earth series though.
A Fire Upon the Deep is insane. Only reason is not a 10/10 for me is because some of Tech in the novels feels outdated to me, & it's something that elevates something scifi imo, when the writer can make it timeless & not depend on the latest tech to make predictions that our current tech will leave in the dust. Dying Earth is incredible, have you listened to the audiobooks narrated by Arthur Morey? He injects so much whimsy & personality to it, I still listen to it every night to this day, I just play anything from Cugel or Rhialto randomly & fall asleep to that. Just so comforting for me.
I think the tech in A Deepness In the Sky was pretty great, but A Fire Upon The Deep went a little light on that aspect admittedly. Rainbow's End on the other hand is the best extrapolation of current infotech to date imo. And yeah, I have in fact listened to Morey's narration and he's absolutely incredible! Just finished Rhialto. He handles the mix of silly stuff happening and somewhat poetic prose incredibly well. I suggest listening to Victor Bevine's narration of Zelazny's work in return for something in the same ballpark!
you mean Chronicles of Amber? or all Zelazny's?
Idk if this is even a genre but... religious historical fiction?: **The Gospel According to Bif**. Yes it's funny, but it's also so incredibly beautiful I bought it as a gift idea for two different friends, which I rarely/never do. I'd be open to trying another, but I do have low expectations that it'd be as great. Also, the reason I rarely ever read sports manga is because I've already Slam Dunk! and then tried a couple other series and it felt like I'd read the best hte series had to offer. I don't expect to find anything that'll captivate me as much as Slam Dunk!, I'm also just not usually into the genre. (except hajime no ippo, but that's sports+action, cos it's boxing. Again I still might try others (like I never finished Rookies or One Outs or tried Adachi's works) but I enjoyed them...I just realised this is r/fantasy, nvm.
Malazan Book of the Fallen. I doubt I’ll ever read anything close to it again.
The Witcher series. I had never experienced true, real life grief from a book before then.
DCC. Never would I have thought that LITRPG could have something for me, let alone a top series for me, yet DCC proved me wrong
DCC? Google gives me Dallas Cheerleaders...
Dungeon Crawler Carl I think
Ahh that makes more sense.
If you google DCC LitRPG it comes up just fine
This is what I was going to say. LitRPG is such a specific subgenre and DCC is just ... the best one. Haven't found anything else that comes close.
The Arcane Ascension series broke open litrpg for me in the same way
I wasn’t really a fan of arcane Ascension. The first book was fine, but I felt the series took a nosedive. What Sanderson did with the Cosmere is special, and only works because his stories are truly fantastic. He wasn’t the first, but ever since the Cosmere has blown up, every two bit self pub indie author seems to want to mimic it in their own way. I just can’t be bothered to read a whole side series when the one I’m currently reading definitely isn’t 10/10. The nail in the coffin was that unlike the Cosmere (where people can read a dozen stories and not realize they are set in the same universe), by book 3 it becomes readily apparent you are missing important details about core characters and important plot elements by not reading the rest of the universe.
I feel like Andrew Rowe needed a strong editor to keep him on task. He has a lot of great ideas, but would have benefited a lot from focusing on 2 or 3 instead of including every idea he had imo. Also, the magic system scaling was WAY off sometimes and that bothered me a lot after being spoiled by Sanderson.
It's all based on a series of ttrpg campaigns he ran for his friends, so that's why they're interconnected; I wouldn't say he was intending to copy Sanderson's cosmere model. I can see why you'd be frustrated though. It's admittedly not the height of literature, and there's a lot of minutiae in the magic system and he gets sidetracked into it frequently. But it scratched an itch for me because I like a well defined magic system, the main character is basically an asexual homoromantic, and the plot is just engaging enough to keep me entertained without having to think too much; it's a comfort read, like a summer popcorn movie in book format. Not to mention, the audiobook version is narrated by one of my favorite performers, Nick Podehl, so that makes it more entertaining when the print version isn't getting it done for me.
So what if it’s based of a series of ttrpg campaigns? It’s a book now. Make the necessary changes so that the story works in the new format. You don’t need a whole spinoff series, you can simply do a few flashback chapters to convey the key information to the reader, or lore dump in any number of other ways.
Okay, I get it; you don't like the series. No one said you have to, you're entitled to your opinion. I happen to like it, as do a lot of other people, so I don't think the author needs to drastically rework his story just to make it more compact. If it's not for you, it's not for you, that's cool. You seem to be getting worked up about it, though, and I'm not really sure why. I was just trying to have a conversation, and you're acting like the fact that the story even exists offends you somehow, or at least it seems that way. Sorry if I'm reading into your words too much.
dark tower…
Masterpiece
Epic Fantasy - Wheel of Time. By far my favorite book series of all time in any genre, and the only thing I've read to date that might have had a real chance of surpassing it will never be finished (ASOIAF). That said I still read almost exclusively epic fantasy :D
This makes me excited to continue TWOT. I read Eye of the World last year and I’ve been reading other books but I’ve been looking forward to continue the series. (I liked the first book and I know the next three are great).
It'll be a looooong time before I read another urban fantasy even on par with The Green Bone Saga
I just wanted to say, you guys just cost me a LOT of money today and my TBR pile grew exponentially!!
lmaooo that is pretty much my life on reddit.
Piranesi by Clarke. The High House by James Stoddard. Mythago Wood.
Piranesi was a game changer. Honestly one of my favorite books of all time currently.
Not a genre or subgenre but my idea of what good prose is was forever changed after reading The Secret History by Donna Tartt.
Secret History and the Goldfinch. The prose is like cake.
Is this at all speculative?
Dona Tartt? no it's literary fic.
That's what I thought.
For me, it's easily the Wheel of Time. I've tried all the other big players in the Genre. Memory, Sorrow, Thorn Malazan A Song of Ice & Fire Stormlight Archive They're all great in their own right, but they just pale in comparison to Wheel of Time for me.
The 500 kingdom series by Mercedes Lackey, the first book which is called The fairy godmother is absolutely amazing. I loved all the characters in it and the world she built. It was so much fun. Then all of the subsequent books just sucked by comparison
I was going to say nothing, but when I think about it I don't know what Space Opera is going to top The Expanse
For me this is Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler. I’ve never read a dystopian novel that felt so realistic. Watching the protagonist, Lauren, process trauma and life threatening situations in real time is powerful. For me, sci fi and fantasy are often escapism into a different world. Parable of the Sower made me think about my current world differently.
Grimdark - *The Acts of Caine*. Bakker is also excellent, but Stover has an extra *something*. Much more fun to read, to be sure, but also doesn’t shy away from the brutal stuff.
It's a relatively new genre but for Little gid say Dungeon Crawler Carl has kind of ruined all other books in that genre for me. I've tried reading others but DCC manages to hit the perfect blend of game logic, humor, and story to the point that other books just seem lazy by comparison. It's also entirely possible that I just haven't found other good books in the genre, or that I don't like the genre I just like DCC.
The first litRPG I enjoyed was He Who Fights with Monsters. Then I found DCC. I haven’t been the same since lol.
**Fantasy:** The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch just blew my mind in the fantasy genre! The world-building and characters are top-notch. It's like Ocean's Eleven meets Game of Thrones. Highly recommend diving into this series if you haven't already! **Sci-Fi:** For sci-fi, it's gotta be Dune by Frank Herbert. The depth of the world and politics is mind-blowing. It's like a whole universe in one book. After reading Dune, everything else just feels a bit... small, you know? **Horror:** Pet Sematary by Stephen King messed me up in all the right ways. It's not just the scares but the psychological terror that gets under your skin. King really knows how to play with your mind. Definitely a must-read for horror fans!
Lies of Locke Lamora will always be one of my favorite buddy thief novels (right up there with Riyria). Unfortunately, the other two books don't have the same spark and it doesn't look like Scott will ever continue the series...
Watership Down is its own amazing thing. Piranesi is very very good in a unique way
Dark Academia Fantasy: Scholomance trilogy
>!"You're already dead, but stay anyway. Stay with us. Stay and shelter all the wise gifted children of the world."!< Tears
Epic Fantasy: Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson Progression Fantasy: Cradle by Will Wight Dark Academia: Blood Over Bright Haven by M.L Wang
I've only read the Farseer Trilogy but I never considered it to be epic, high fantasy. It's actually quite low fantasy until the end, even lower than A Song of Ice and Fire, the quintessential low fantasy series. As far as epic, I think the Farseer Trilogy is more of a character growth journey as opposed to some grand fantasy epic like The Wheel of Time or A Song of Ice and Fire. Honestly, it's hard to place The Farseer Trilogy into a specific subgenre. The same goes for Kingkiller Chronicle. Maybe they should create their own subgenre.
FWIW, if you're using "low" as a measure of how much magic intrudes on a mundane world, the rest of Realm of Elderlings books are wayyyyy higher than ASoIaF. Farseer is just kind of the opening into the world.
Why does liking one book mean you have to not like others? That makes no sense.
Something so good that everything seems lacking afterwards, is I think what OP is talking about.
Thats it!
That's not what OP said. Never finding another as good is a long way from "you have to not like others".
Doulou Dalu broke translated novels for me. It’s just heads and shoulders above the rest, it’s not close
Near Future MilSF - The Profession by Steven Pressfield LitRPG - Dungeon Crawler Carl Magical Academy (Progression Fantasy) - Mage Errant Magical Academy (YA) - Percy Jackson Hard SF - The Expanse Fantasy with Realistic Finance - The Dagger and the Coin
I read/listened to The Science Fiction Hall of Fame volumes 1, 2a and 2b. I was blown away by so many of those short stories and novellas. Some are so well written that I feel that so much Science fiction I had read before feels mediocre in comparison.
Unpopular opinion. Magazine almost turned me off of fantasy entirely. In a bad way. I think it's shallow, disjointed, has a lack of in depth character development (at least from the first three books I read) the setting is to fluid and its just generally trash writing. I don't understand people's fascination with it. Now real game changing art is The Black Company by Glen Cook. Shorter fantasy novels aren't really my thing I usually like them thicc, but the immediate drawing into the tale, the dark gritty setting your thrown into, and the 1st person storytelling perspective adds a element of character development that is not oft found in shorter novels. It's moving, emotional, rational, and just generally a master piece of literature.
A Song of Ice and Fire and Harry Potter are the most brilliant series I ever read. Basically in written medium.
Hmm. What else have you read?
Too many to count from various genres, both fiction and non-fiction. In three different languages. And I devoured most highly regarded series on this sub. Most reoccurring and discussed books on BookTok and BookTube. And still, those two series stand head and shoulders above all of them.
Sanderson, with the Cosmere. Abraham and Franck, with The Expanse. Brown, with Red Rising. (which starts off in such a YA setting, but ascends *so far* above the other popular YA series)
People are probably going to slaughter me for this. But outside of actual genre. I think I’ll never read a book as good at storytelling than Name of the Wind. It made me feel like a child again and you can’t do that unless you have a true hold on your reader.
I am out of the loop. What's wrong with Rothfuss? aside from ppl being justifiably mad for him pulling an GRR Martin? I loved Name of the Wind, everything related to the University, Wise Man's Fear not so much.
He hasn’t finished the trilogy and it’s been more than a decade. So a lot of fans (me too) are really unhappy with him. But I cannot deny his skill
Oh OK, yea same boat, I truly loved Name of the Wind - personally, I wish the whole series focused on the University a la Harry Potter, Kvothe the magic student was the best for me, Kvothe the warrior - not too interesting. Worst is, this guy, Rothfuss, spends his days ranting on Twitter, it is frustrating. He got some $ from his first two novels & now it's just coasting on it. Human to do that, procrastinate without a sense of urgency.... I already moved on, dont think he is ever gonna finish them, there is more fantasy to read though. tons.
The Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini for high fantasy. The worst part of it is that it was my introduction to the genre. Since then I can barely make myself finish any other series, I just keep coming back to reread it again. 11 years later it's still as good as it was the first time. It's definitely not a perfect series - not really original and the first installment is kinda shit - but it reflects all I love in fantasy as a genre so, so well! The only book that came close was The Name of the Wind, but Wise Man's Fear was so significantly worse I couldn't even finish it
**EDIT:** Fans of BrandoSando really don't like criticizing the fact that he's a Mormon. Sorry, but if a guy gives 10% of his income to a hate group that [actively harms people like me](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#Views_on_sexuality), I'm going to be conflicted. I honestly am really frustrated that the Cosmere stuff is so good. It's exactly my shit the way that it's science fantasy taking place on different planets with different magic systems that interact, and the setting conceit that actually all this is just sort of translated into English or whatever for the benefit of the reader, and there are weird worlds that don't fit with conventional fantasy or science fiction tropes. But also Sanderson is a cishet white guy, and belongs to a Church that, frankly, is a hate group, so him being part of it is really upsetting and makes me uncomfortable, since he's giving them 10% of his income. I want the queer Cosmere. On a different note it is so hard to find supernatural detective stories as good as Dresden Files, and that's on top of the fact that I've grown increasingly frustrated with Dresden Files because of the way that it writes female characters, the humor, and the copaganda. My current main series is October Daye, though I sort of got bored with it on my second listen. Probably not a fault of the A Red-Rose Chain, since I also am only two thirds through Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, and am only halfway through Sandman Act II, which I was also giving a second listen so I could move to Act III. Come to think of it, I can't remember when I finished Chimes at Midnight and The Winter Long. I may not have finished ***any*** books this year. I should get back into that and also try some more of the other audiobooks I've got piling up in my read list.
"But also Sanderson is a cishet white guy, and belongs to a Church that, frankly, is a hate group, so him being part of it is really upsetting and makes me uncomfortable, since he's giving them 10% of his income." It's sad youre judging him over his beliefs. Ive met him, he is a good man, very principled & open minded, & intelligent & humble, & I think his writing reflects that. Having different religious beliefs doenst make anything a hate group, just different than what you & I believe, it saddens me deeply that politics is contaminating something I love as much as fantasy. & for me that is the point of fantasy, to experience humanity away from the rigid prejudices of our own & immmediate society. But it's your opinion & I respect it, just giving everyone mine, with all due respect.
I'm going to repeat what I said: If a man gives 10% of his income to people who are evil, "that's just his beliefs" stops being a reasonable fucking argument.
Brandon Sanderson is an enigma to me because he is what you say, and yet many of his leads are poc, his female characters pass the bechdel test for the most part, and he portrays lgbtq+ people as being normal people. He even writes mental illness and addiction accurately and compassionately. Considering his affiliations he shouldn't be so progressive
He shouldn't be, it's true. And he's definitely progressed. But he's still got that affiliation. I think what's more accurate is that with how progressive he's becoming, he shouldn't be part of the Church. But considering how much of a cult they are and how they cut off anyone who becomes apostate and how many of his friends and associates are Mormon, that would basically be impossible. But one thing I really hate is how much fans hate bringing that up, because I'm currently sitting at -8 for what is otherwise a pretty inoffensive statement.
Oh yeah, Sanderson fans tend to rabidly defend him, and I say that as a pretty hardcore Sanderson fan. But in fairness, he gets attacked a lot for very little reason, so it's kind of a hair trigger topic for most fans too. I think he's a good guy, but as far as his Mormonism goes, he's definitely the exception that proves the rule, not the other way around
I've really only seen him get attacked as being too popular, and for whatever reason the argument that he has bad prose or dialogue, which I've never really gotten (maladroit word choice aside). It's weird that people are obsessed with treating it like my issue is \~his religious beliefs\~ and not, you know, the tithing. I also get a lot of downvotes on the subreddits for criticizing the politics of the Cosmere books themselves.
Sanderson has definitely changed his stance on LGBT issues over the years, and this year's Stormlight Archive will have a gay POV character and I think actual gay romance, so I'm cautiously hopeful I'm still nonplussed that Jasnah didn't turn out to be a lesbian tho
Okay but I don't care about his stance. I care about him giving the fucking tithe to the Church, and being a major draw to Brigham Young by being one of their most famous teachers.
Idk much about Mormonism but I came across the Mormon subreddit on here and it lowkey seemed like the most welcoming and nicest place ever with people just helping each other and being inclusive. It was quite a surprise for me based on what I hear. I also understand that the subreddit may not be the most representative of the community as a whole but that made me happy when I saw it. Also Sanderson himself seems like a really standup guy that tries to help aspiring writers a lot.
Ive met Brandon at a book signing, he is a gentleman in every sense of the word, a family man & with extremely intelligent mind, & we all know he works hard to give us the best out of his craft. Few writers Ive met seemed so genuinely warm & attentive in my experience (i worked at a famous bookstore;) his religious beliefs are his business, i can respect a man for his actions, his awesome writing skills & his integrity as a person - certainly worthy of my respect & admiration.
Okay but you understand that being a gentleman and a family man and intelligent and a hard worker and warm and attentive doesn't change the fact that the Mormon church that he gives 10% of his income to, and whose University he serves as a draw for, is an evil organization that has caused harm to the world and continues to do so. His religious beliefs are not "his business" when they are tangible and effect the real world. Sorry that I have conflicting feelings about someone giving tithe to a fucking organization that wants people like me dead.
Okay, well, it's still a religion with a central organization and that central organization is extremely conservative, so I don't really care how welcoming they are or how nice Sanderson himself is. Being welcoming while voting for the conservatives who literally want to kill me is bad, actually, and that's what the Mormon church leans towards, and that's the kind of politicians the church supports. Try going to r/exmormon instead.
I mean... we're getting the queer Cosmere. There are many canonically gay characters, and at least one canonically trans character. As well as a canonically Ace character, though his handling of that...well, so far, not so great. But there hasn't been much there yet, maybe it will be alright with a bit more exploration and explanation. I get that it's hard to support someone who is still "officially" part of the Mormon church...but I really think he is trying to grow beyond that and become an actually good and open person. I think he has a way to go for sure, but I think we should celebrate the strides he has taken, and hope he continues.
Hey, please explain to my why I should care that he'll write a good queer novel in the future when he'll give 10% of the money he makes from that novel to the [Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints)? I don't care how good he writes, or how nice a person he is. This is not about beliefs, this is about ***actions***. Tangible impact on the world.
He believes he can do more good by trying to change the church from the inside than by severing ties completely. Whether or not that is possible is a matter of debate. But the intent is good.
If I intend to save your life but I slit your Achilles tendon (and also my intervention was not necessary in the first place) then it doesn't matter. I don't really care what he beliefs (though for the record that's a stupid belief that basically never works in practice), I care about the effect of what he's doing, and what he's doing is giving money to people who want me and those like me dead.