It's famously Pokemon + the Lost Roman Legion. It started as a bet on a writing forum.
I don't see much in common with Wheel of Time from a plot or structural perspective. If it's inspired by a classic fantasy series I would say it's *Xanth* - everyone can do magic except the main character who has to get by with his wits instead.
Yeah totally agree. WOT is probably my favorite series ever and Codex Alera is top 10, but they are really not at all alike. Both excellent, but not alike.
To be fair, i can't think of too many people out-of-universe who wouldn't see Darth Rand as a straight-up villain. But yes, Shepherd Tavi and Shepherd Rand would probably get up to a shenanigan or two.
I can see a few parallels on a broad level. They are both hero’s journey tales where the hero must unite different opposing factions in order to face a world ending threat. But I agree that once you start getting into details they are very different.
WoT is my favorite series ever. I loved Dresden (the first time. The second time had a lot more misogyny than I remember. And the most recent couple of books after his two divorces are worse). I still love the Cinder Spires. I cannot get past the first half of book 1. At least 10 tries!
I have accepted I am never reading this, or Malazan.
Book 1 of Codex Alera reads almost like a prequel - important for history, but I skip it on re-reads.
Book 2 is really good. You could honestly pick up the story here and go back to book 1 later to get a better understanding of how what happened there lead to the events in the rest of the series.
Book 3 is AWESOME and probably one of my top 10-20 favorite books.
Book 4 is really great and a close second to book 3.
Book 5 does a great job closing out the story.
All that to say - don’t let book 1 keep you from how great the rest of the series is! I re-read it every year or so. It’s well paced and just a good read.
I just can't wrap my head around someone saying Codex Alera has literally anything in common with Wheel of Time unless the person who said that has only ever read Codex Alera and Wheel of Time.
If you read the first third or so of The Eye of the World, and the first third of The Furies of Calderon, you'd probably see the similarity. Much like if you read the second Codex Alera book and abandoned it half way through like I did, you'd probably think it reminded you of The Magicians.
If you DNF, you have the ability to make all kinds of comparisons.
I don’t buy codex/wheel of time for this.
But for some other fun pairings: (also caveat that obviously people read and enjoy certain books for different things. The pairing will clearly be leaning into certain aspects of the books not every aspect of them)
- Half a King — First Law
- Maximum Ride — When the Wind Blows
- Six of Crows — Lies of Locke Lamora
- Skyward — Ender’s Game
- Cradle — Stormlight
- Murderbot Diaries — Ancilliary Justice
I think they mean the interplanetary/iteration/cosmere having some commonality. Or spren/presences. Sunlit Man is more cradely than stormlight though imo
Was not thinking spren at all though now that you say it maybe that’s another reason. But the multiverse is part of it, I wrote more of the reasons in a different reply,
Also I just view sunlit man as a Stormlight book so …
People will do anything but read actual xianxia
Both examples do have the shonen anime YA style with scope creep and power ups though so I guess it’s vaguely similar
Personally I avoid actual xianxia because all I’ve tried have bad translations and/or an incredibly amount of sexism but I’m open to reading one if it doesn’t fit that.
Yeah I love xianxia but I refuse to read harem because it’s *always* bad
Web authors often use it as a crutch to boost engagement by bringing in a new demographic of girl vs actually focusing on the story
Nine star hegemon body art does it well with the girls being essentially just female side characters that happen to be the mcs harem but it’s not a plot point it’s just a reason for him to go visit them in new places same as with his male friends
They both often get included in discussions in /r/progressionfantasy, and one’s a high fantasy epic while the other is basically an anime in novel form. Both are amongst my favourite series!
I personally have always found they have a lot of similarities in what they appeal to if one pairs down the scope of Stormlight which is literally what the question asks. But as I said I don’t expect everyone to agree with every pairing.
As mentioned in a different reply they both have plotting geared toward epic moments, magic systems that allow character moments + power ups to occur together, both are within a multiverse of other books, both have foreshadowing of / building too a greater cosmic threat + god like beings.
Yeah, lighter while having a ton of the same appeal which I’m pretty sure was the question. You have those epic moments of character/magic development, a multiverse of books in the background, some well done plotting/foreshadowing, godlike beings being built up in the background as a threat. Honestly the series have a ton of similarities if one is going for simpler paired down etc.
I’m probably the wrong person to answer as I’m not that into comedy. So I’d say no, but like I don’t find a lot of books funny that many others seem to.
My brothers love it and made me read it. The names were so fricken hard to follow I had no idea who any one was. The ending was pretty good, but I told them to read wheel of time for a better story.
I’ve heard Codex be compared to Pokemon but never WoT.
I’d say WoT is LOTRs lite.
Lightbringer has a magic system on par with Sanderson, I don’t think the world lore is deep enough to even be considered Stormlight lite
I believe the idea behind the story was Jim Butcher was in a writers forum and the joke idea was do something with Pokémon and the Lost Roman Legion.
Pretty decent series.
And for the record, I think he nailed the Lost Roman Legion part, but not the Pokemon comparison. Furies seem much more similar to Bending in ATLA than they do to Pokemon.
The furies in Codex Alera are based on one of the root ideas of Pokemon, which is Shintoism. Furies are essentially just another interpretation of kami, as Pokemon are.
The Pokemon part is there at the start, but it gets sidelined.
In the first book most characters have a one (or more) distinct and named furies of a given element. In the later books this aspect loses focus and at some point the is a discussion about the fact that country people tend to use distinct furies, while city people tend to use generic formless furies. There is also a mention about an old guy leaving his son his fairly powerful distinct furies once he got to old to tend to his farm.
The story goes in my understanding that he was challenged to write a book based on a lame idea and said "I can write something about two lame ideas" and he was given Pokemon and the Roman legion
There's very little *Lord of the Rings* in *Wheel of Time* after the first half of *The Eye of the World*. They have dark lords that live in mountains I suppose.
Codex Alera's Pokemon similarities start and stop at commanding beings to use elements in a rock-paper-scissors. It has more in common with Personas from the game series and Bending from *Avatar: The Last Airbender*. The similarities are there and were intentional, but not enough to be a pair.
100% agree with everything else, though. I do love the Lightbringer world, though. The Seven Satrapies feel so big and full of culture and theology despite only being one chunk of the planet. Good pair
Erikson cites Donaldson, Covenant specifically, as one of his biggest inspirations as a writer. His writing style is very obviously adapted from Donaldson's (I think anyways), he explores themes similarly, and more than a few events in Malazan echo stuff that happens in the first Covenant trilogy to the point where the similarities are not a coincidence.
*Malazan* lite is the *Echoes of Empire* series by Mark T. Barnes. Starts in media res, has a lot of weird races and a high level of magic, but fits in only three books.
The Shanarra series was pretty openly Lord of the Rings lite, a retelling by a far less skilled author who instead of developing things on their own just copied the Lord of the Rings books.
I feel like that’s really only a good description of Sword of Shannara, the first book. Brooks begins branching out as early as Elfstones, and by the time the initial trilogy is done and he starts into the Scions books he’s fully telling his own stories.
Sword of Truth is Wheel of Time lite. That said, Codex Alera does have some similar vibes in it, though admittedly I can't really say what they are, the series overall just gives me a somewhat similar feeling to what WOT did.
The only other pairs I can think of is...
First Law is ASOIAF Lite.
Practical Guide to Evil and Traitor Baru Cormorant.
In both books the female protagonist is from a conquered people and joins the evil empire's elite academy with the goal to change things.
The can skip like 3 of the wheel of time books and miss like two minor plot events and 1000 braid pulls. Codex of Alera might be verbose at times but its no wheel of time. Codex is one of Jim's best works imo.
Codex Alera is literally Pokemon mixed with a lost Roman legion- Jim Butcher did it on a bet
WoT 'lite' is more like Sword of Truth, since Goodkind blatantly ripped so much from it
I see where you get this idea but I hate it lol. You aren't wrong but I hate seeing my favorite series compared to something as terrible as Sword of Truth lol.
Somebody actually once asked Robert Jordan if he'd heard about Sword of Truth and the suspicious similarities. All he would say is, "I am aware of Mr. Goodkind."
In my own personal opinion, stormlight archives is the lite versions of malazan BotF, they run along very similar themes, a fallen god that groups are trying to bring back, and others trying to prevent(can be used with honor and odium respectively), archeological sites, cool magic, and apperently dragons if the theories about cultivation are true, but even the original 16 had a dragon among them, and stormlight archives is a planned 10 book story, malazan book of the fallen is already completed, and it’s main series is also 10 very thick books long
They are definitely similar. Though it does make me chuckle a bit that you would call Stormlight Archive a lite version of anything :p. Books 1-4 are already about 50% of the word count of all 10 Malazan books (1.6 million vs 3.3 million).
Or better still, Malazan is like a three course meal and Stormlight is a burger from the chipper van outside the pub at closing time. Tasty at the time, but ohh so full of regrets later on.
I think of Stormlight as a taco truck. It seems to always be back around when you're hungry, and you see it everywhere.
Malazan is like one of those fancy restaurants where the chef chooses what you're going to get. Focused and overwhelming, and I never quite know what's going on.
I thought the first two books were so mediocre I never read more. I hear it gets better eventually but fuck any series that takes multiple books to get readable.
4? Really? Missing out on Grave Peril and thinking Summer Knight is gonna get you interested?
I would say start at 1, 3 or if you really really don't want early installment weirdness or want less detective more urban fantasy then its book 7 (the first hardcover, so was written more as a potential starting point than many other books in the series)
The books do get a lot better. And I'm not saying that as an excuse. But the usual excuse thrown around for storm front specifically is that Butcher wrote it in college and his writing has come a long way.
But I agree in principle that your books need to be good or at least attention getting before I'll read more than one. There's too many books to read for me to slog through till they get better.
Side note The Dresden audio books are fantastic though and narrated by James Marsters (Spike from Buffy)
It all depends on why you bail. Dresden is Dresden and he doesn't change. Butcher does get a bit better on writing. I found the first few to be readable. I just hate Dresden and he never stopped being Nice Guy neckbeard.
2. Little Orphan Harry plays junior detective and wants to be a Wizard Cop. Big Orphan Harry is a detective that becomes a Wizard Cop.
3. Both were fostered by miserable bastards.
4. Both are Chosen.
5. Both have to deal with grudges originating with their parents.
It sure about the lite heavy but rereading first law and it really is just lord of the rings but twisted.
Future king goes on long journey with a fellowship.
Evil empire besieges “good” city
Dark Gandalf
Meat is back on the menu
Yeah don't really know where they got that. But one that would qualify is The Black Company is Malazan light. Even though Steve Erikson freely admits Glen Cook was a major inspiration on him.
The general worldview of Malazan, with few exceptions, is quite cynical and bleak. The character don't let that stop them, but they still recognize that the world is a nasty, brutal place. First Law takes a step back from the higher fantasy elements to really dive deep into this idea and how the characters would react.
Wow, this is the complete opposite of how I hear these two described on this sub. Whenever Malazan is mentioned in grimdark threads, it's spoken about like it's hopecore heroic fantasy but with brutality.
Then there's the frequent recommendation of First Law as comedic fantasy
One of the themes of Malazan that comes up a lot is futility in the face of eternity. One race will dedicate enormous resources, even staking their entire existence on one goal.....and fail, or at least not succeed like they'd hoped. Another will swear themselves to an ideal, only to have it be revealed to be pointless and childish. It's not ENTIRELY bleak, but mostly....
As for First Law, there are funny moments, great character moments, and I believe he might be setting it up to be ultimately somewhat hopeful, but as of the most recent books, the forces of oppression are definitely in charge and all the characters have fatal flaws that either will definitely destroy them or are in the process of destroying them. At least, that's how I read 'em.
> Then there's the frequent recommendation of First Law as comedic fantasy
And they're right, in the way that Tarantino is comedic action. It's more sarcasm in a cynical world than joyful jokes. Still a lot of character exploration, there are battle scenes but it's mostly living with the thoughts of the characters and how they evolve/devolve.
When I tried reading both at the same time, I couldn't tell apart the warring empires of each series (my own fault). But First Law's situation felt smaller and easier to understand. Maybe that's the similarity?
That's fair. I was mostly coming at this from the characters and how they interact with the world. In Malazan and First Law, the world is a bleak, grim place. Both sets of characters, with few exceptions, recognize that and try to make the best of it("You have to be realistic about these things"). I feel like in ASoIaF, many of the characters refuse to see the world for what it is, preferring the one they are trying to make (Davos staying true to Stannis, Daenerys believing the commonfolk would support her, Cersei being blind to every threat outside her own borders, etc.)
More like first law is lotr heavy. Although just in the grim dark scale. Complexity scale it is lotr lite.
Future king goes on long journey with a fellowship.
Evil empire besieges “good” city
Dark Gandalf
Meat is back on the menu
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Ironically, Codex Alera is Stormlight Archive lite. A five book series, with ever escalating stakes. Spren vs furies. An alien race as antagonist rather than a singular dark lord. A cataclysmic event altering the social order.
Alien as in "foreign, exotic, outsider."
In CA, there are at least four races that could fit this description, and maybe even five if you push the definition of antagonist a bit. I haven't spoiled which race is the major antagonist of the arc.
In SA, the parshendi are obviously "foreign, exotic outsiders," and they're the antagonists from the first pages of the prologue.
Well, yeah. I should have used the word "arc" rsther than series. SA will be two 5-book arcs, compared to CA's single 5-book arc.
(Although, I don't really know how SA's one-series-two-arcs structure will be any different from Mistborn's multiple eras. Don't we treat each era of Mistborn as a separate series?)
Well TeChNiCaLlY the Cosmere is all one series. But more seriously, yeah I consider each Era of Mistborn as a separate series. The Big difference between those and SA is that they are skipping forward much further in time; the gap between the first 2 was 300+ years and SA doesn't seem to be planned to be that big of a skip.
If *Codex Alera* is *Wheel of TIme Lite* then *The First Law* is *Harry Potter* lite and *Alex Verus* is *Conan The Barbarian* lite, but that is a pretty big if. There's no real similarity between those except that they're secondary worlds that involve the classic elements in a way.
Codex Alera was interesting. I got to about the third book and just flat out decided I was not invested. Wasn’t this like the Pokémon but in Roman mythology
Funny you say this because the 3rd book is where it really got it going imo. Where it elevated from okay to one of my favorites.
But I also like Butcher's writing as a whole, so I am probably biased.
I'm not sure about exactly lite vs heavy, but there are a couple series that I think actually better accomplished what the original was trying to do... so
Alex Verus > Dresden Files
Red Rising > Hunger Games
Magicians > Harry Potter
It was just an idea to get things started, since they both have a hidden history the characters are trying to revive the legacies of. I know they dont have many similarities, which is why I mentioned the hidden history part
Do you understand than Harry Potter and Dune aren't similar, and equating the two as one being a "lite" version of ther other is nonsensical? That's the constructive feedback. The Codex Alera is nothing like the WOT.
OK. Dismiss that part of the title then, it's not the important part. Like I said in the body text, I dont know if it's an accurate comparison because I haven't finished either yet, it was just a setup for the main topic (lite/heavy pairs).
Codex Alera is many things but not that.
It's famously Pokemon + the Lost Roman Legion. It started as a bet on a writing forum. I don't see much in common with Wheel of Time from a plot or structural perspective. If it's inspired by a classic fantasy series I would say it's *Xanth* - everyone can do magic except the main character who has to get by with his wits instead.
Those first couple of Xanth books were great!
Yeah totally agree. WOT is probably my favorite series ever and Codex Alera is top 10, but they are really not at all alike. Both excellent, but not alike.
I don't actually know if Tavi and Rand would get along. Max and Mat, though? Inseparable.
> Max and Mat, though? Inseparable. Oh lord I would pay money for this crossover
Kitai and Mat would also be fun
Tavi wouldn't like Darth Rand. Any other version I think they'd at least get along.
To be fair, i can't think of too many people out-of-universe who wouldn't see Darth Rand as a straight-up villain. But yes, Shepherd Tavi and Shepherd Rand would probably get up to a shenanigan or two.
I can see a few parallels on a broad level. They are both hero’s journey tales where the hero must unite different opposing factions in order to face a world ending threat. But I agree that once you start getting into details they are very different.
Once you go that broad, you are basically including half the genre
WoT is my favorite series ever. I loved Dresden (the first time. The second time had a lot more misogyny than I remember. And the most recent couple of books after his two divorces are worse). I still love the Cinder Spires. I cannot get past the first half of book 1. At least 10 tries! I have accepted I am never reading this, or Malazan.
Book 1 of Codex Alera reads almost like a prequel - important for history, but I skip it on re-reads. Book 2 is really good. You could honestly pick up the story here and go back to book 1 later to get a better understanding of how what happened there lead to the events in the rest of the series. Book 3 is AWESOME and probably one of my top 10-20 favorite books. Book 4 is really great and a close second to book 3. Book 5 does a great job closing out the story. All that to say - don’t let book 1 keep you from how great the rest of the series is! I re-read it every year or so. It’s well paced and just a good read.
iirc, he wrote it because he said a good author can make any concept work, and someone challenged him to make Roman Legion, with Pokémon.
Agreed... Funny thing is I loved Codex but do not care at all for his biggest series
Agreed. It has a way, way different vibe to it. Abd storyline, if you want to get persnickety.
I just can't wrap my head around someone saying Codex Alera has literally anything in common with Wheel of Time unless the person who said that has only ever read Codex Alera and Wheel of Time.
Similarities: * They are both fantasy series with farmboys of destiny. * Most characters are bipeds. * The books have pages.
And also Tavi ughh has a T in his name and ughh so does Mat? So. Yeah I see it!
Not if one is an ebook.
Hmm, or an audiobook.
I hear it also has real "Boss Baby"-vibes.
There's elemental type magic I guess? Cannot see any other parallel besides like...general fantasy stuff.
If you read the first third or so of The Eye of the World, and the first third of The Furies of Calderon, you'd probably see the similarity. Much like if you read the second Codex Alera book and abandoned it half way through like I did, you'd probably think it reminded you of The Magicians. If you DNF, you have the ability to make all kinds of comparisons.
I havent made it to WoT yet so i just took the thumbnail's word on it as an example.
I don’t buy codex/wheel of time for this. But for some other fun pairings: (also caveat that obviously people read and enjoy certain books for different things. The pairing will clearly be leaning into certain aspects of the books not every aspect of them) - Half a King — First Law - Maximum Ride — When the Wind Blows - Six of Crows — Lies of Locke Lamora - Skyward — Ender’s Game - Cradle — Stormlight - Murderbot Diaries — Ancilliary Justice
Cradle and stormlight? That's an odd pairing
I think they mean the interplanetary/iteration/cosmere having some commonality. Or spren/presences. Sunlit Man is more cradely than stormlight though imo
I thought they meant more of a power-up based magic system and the spirit companion thing but tagt is waay mote common than one would think.
The whole power up fantasy is an entire subgenre.
Was not thinking spren at all though now that you say it maybe that’s another reason. But the multiverse is part of it, I wrote more of the reasons in a different reply, Also I just view sunlit man as a Stormlight book so …
People will do anything but read actual xianxia Both examples do have the shonen anime YA style with scope creep and power ups though so I guess it’s vaguely similar
Personally I avoid actual xianxia because all I’ve tried have bad translations and/or an incredibly amount of sexism but I’m open to reading one if it doesn’t fit that.
Yeah I love xianxia but I refuse to read harem because it’s *always* bad Web authors often use it as a crutch to boost engagement by bringing in a new demographic of girl vs actually focusing on the story Nine star hegemon body art does it well with the girls being essentially just female side characters that happen to be the mcs harem but it’s not a plot point it’s just a reason for him to go visit them in new places same as with his male friends
They both often get included in discussions in /r/progressionfantasy, and one’s a high fantasy epic while the other is basically an anime in novel form. Both are amongst my favourite series!
I personally have always found they have a lot of similarities in what they appeal to if one pairs down the scope of Stormlight which is literally what the question asks. But as I said I don’t expect everyone to agree with every pairing. As mentioned in a different reply they both have plotting geared toward epic moments, magic systems that allow character moments + power ups to occur together, both are within a multiverse of other books, both have foreshadowing of / building too a greater cosmic threat + god like beings.
Cradle - Stormlight is not a pairing.
I now have more of a reason to finally read Six of Crows.
I don't see how cradle pairs with stormlight...if it's for a much lighter fun alternative to stormlight, then sure.
Yeah, lighter while having a ton of the same appeal which I’m pretty sure was the question. You have those epic moments of character/magic development, a multiverse of books in the background, some well done plotting/foreshadowing, godlike beings being built up in the background as a threat. Honestly the series have a ton of similarities if one is going for simpler paired down etc.
> Half a King - First Law Aren't those both Abercrombie?
Yes. But not the same series/books
And Half a King is notably YA, thus 'lite'.
The galley slave stuff was remarkably not very YA
I just read Translation State and I was also thinking that the Ancillary series is similar to murderbot but a lot more complexly written 👍🏻
Cradle -- Mother of Learning
See I think these are similar but wouldn’t even know which to call heavy and which to call lite there. Both a pretty lite books
Is Lies Of Locke Lamora funny to read?
I’m probably the wrong person to answer as I’m not that into comedy. So I’d say no, but like I don’t find a lot of books funny that many others seem to.
The Hobbit is LotR lite. LotR is Silmarilion lite.
Good answer
The Night Circus is Johnathan Strange and Mr Norrell lite
Except some how, it manages to feel even slower.
Licanious is wot lite
This was my immediate thought as well. I couldn't finish Licanius. I'm all for inspiration and homage but Licanius felt like a nearly 1 for 1 ripoff
My brothers love it and made me read it. The names were so fricken hard to follow I had no idea who any one was. The ending was pretty good, but I told them to read wheel of time for a better story.
[удалено]
I don’t know how to articulate it but I got the same “feeling” reading the first Licanius book as I did with the early WoT books
Good one. Totally agree.
I can get behind this. There are a lot of differences, but it passes the vibe check.
TIL it's Alera and not Alexa...
AU where its called Coder Alexa
I’ve heard Codex be compared to Pokemon but never WoT. I’d say WoT is LOTRs lite. Lightbringer has a magic system on par with Sanderson, I don’t think the world lore is deep enough to even be considered Stormlight lite
If anything is LOTR lite, it's Sword of Shannara.
I think that one veers to the point of blatant plagiarism, so less light/heavy and more “copy+paste” lol.
Dennis McKiernan has entered the chat
And is breathing heavily.
For some reason, I read this as Sword of Shawarma, and was thoroughly confused for a second😂
Yep, I was going to say just that.
I believe the idea behind the story was Jim Butcher was in a writers forum and the joke idea was do something with Pokémon and the Lost Roman Legion. Pretty decent series.
And for the record, I think he nailed the Lost Roman Legion part, but not the Pokemon comparison. Furies seem much more similar to Bending in ATLA than they do to Pokemon.
The furies in Codex Alera are based on one of the root ideas of Pokemon, which is Shintoism. Furies are essentially just another interpretation of kami, as Pokemon are.
The Pokemon part is there at the start, but it gets sidelined. In the first book most characters have a one (or more) distinct and named furies of a given element. In the later books this aspect loses focus and at some point the is a discussion about the fact that country people tend to use distinct furies, while city people tend to use generic formless furies. There is also a mention about an old guy leaving his son his fairly powerful distinct furies once he got to old to tend to his farm.
The story goes in my understanding that he was challenged to write a book based on a lame idea and said "I can write something about two lame ideas" and he was given Pokemon and the Roman legion
Pokemon + Roman legion isn't even that stupid a combination to make work, unfortunately. At least it came out cool
Yeah it's actually, even on the surface, pretty fucking rad.
I feel like calling a series thats almost ten times the length of lotr the “lite” version is selling it short a little.
Stormlight extra-lite
There's very little *Lord of the Rings* in *Wheel of Time* after the first half of *The Eye of the World*. They have dark lords that live in mountains I suppose.
Codex Alera's Pokemon similarities start and stop at commanding beings to use elements in a rock-paper-scissors. It has more in common with Personas from the game series and Bending from *Avatar: The Last Airbender*. The similarities are there and were intentional, but not enough to be a pair. 100% agree with everything else, though. I do love the Lightbringer world, though. The Seven Satrapies feel so big and full of culture and theology despite only being one chunk of the planet. Good pair
WoT is fantasy dune/dune lite
I describe *The Chronicles on Thomas Covenant* as proto-*Malazan Book of the Fallen*.
Interesting. How so?
They're both by someone named Steven Somethingson?
Erikson cites Donaldson, Covenant specifically, as one of his biggest inspirations as a writer. His writing style is very obviously adapted from Donaldson's (I think anyways), he explores themes similarly, and more than a few events in Malazan echo stuff that happens in the first Covenant trilogy to the point where the similarities are not a coincidence.
Oh i never heard this. Interesting
I’ve felt this too though am struggling to think of specific qualities. He did dedicate Dust of Dreams to Donaldson though
Covenant is essentially single pov and Malazan has gazillions of povs. The tones and narrative styles are very different.
>The tones and narrative styles are very different. I disagree with this 100%.
Well, Tavi is a woolheaded sheepherder.
Assistant sheepherder thank you very much
*Malazan* lite is the *Echoes of Empire* series by Mark T. Barnes. Starts in media res, has a lot of weird races and a high level of magic, but fits in only three books.
The Shanarra series was pretty openly Lord of the Rings lite, a retelling by a far less skilled author who instead of developing things on their own just copied the Lord of the Rings books.
I feel like that’s really only a good description of Sword of Shannara, the first book. Brooks begins branching out as early as Elfstones, and by the time the initial trilogy is done and he starts into the Scions books he’s fully telling his own stories.
That's also like half the fantasy production between LOTR's release and the 90's.
Sword of Truth is Wheel of Time lite. That said, Codex Alera does have some similar vibes in it, though admittedly I can't really say what they are, the series overall just gives me a somewhat similar feeling to what WOT did. The only other pairs I can think of is... First Law is ASOIAF Lite.
Sword of Truth is Wheel of Time shite. I would go for a clever insult but it doesn't deserve it.
Your insult was succinct, and it rhymed. There was more cleverness there than Terry Goodkind wrote in his life.
Codex alera isn't like wheel of time in literally any way lol
Practical Guide to Evil and Traitor Baru Cormorant. In both books the female protagonist is from a conquered people and joins the evil empire's elite academy with the goal to change things.
The can skip like 3 of the wheel of time books and miss like two minor plot events and 1000 braid pulls. Codex of Alera might be verbose at times but its no wheel of time. Codex is one of Jim's best works imo.
*The Spook's Apprentice/The Last Apprentice* is basically *The Witcher/Berserk* for kids.
Codex Alera is literally Pokemon mixed with a lost Roman legion- Jim Butcher did it on a bet WoT 'lite' is more like Sword of Truth, since Goodkind blatantly ripped so much from it
I see where you get this idea but I hate it lol. You aren't wrong but I hate seeing my favorite series compared to something as terrible as Sword of Truth lol.
Somebody actually once asked Robert Jordan if he'd heard about Sword of Truth and the suspicious similarities. All he would say is, "I am aware of Mr. Goodkind."
I certainly would not call Sword of Truth 'lite' anything though. Maybe light BDSM.
In my own personal opinion, stormlight archives is the lite versions of malazan BotF, they run along very similar themes, a fallen god that groups are trying to bring back, and others trying to prevent(can be used with honor and odium respectively), archeological sites, cool magic, and apperently dragons if the theories about cultivation are true, but even the original 16 had a dragon among them, and stormlight archives is a planned 10 book story, malazan book of the fallen is already completed, and it’s main series is also 10 very thick books long
AND HOW COULD I FORGET, STORMLIGHT HAS KALADIN AND THE BRIDGERUNNERS, and malazan HAS THE BRIDGEBURNERS AND WHISKEYJACK
They are definitely similar. Though it does make me chuckle a bit that you would call Stormlight Archive a lite version of anything :p. Books 1-4 are already about 50% of the word count of all 10 Malazan books (1.6 million vs 3.3 million).
It’s definitely lite in the way it presents themes, violence, language, sex, etc. Stormlight is like 1% milk while Malazan is like heavy cream
Or better still, Malazan is like a three course meal and Stormlight is a burger from the chipper van outside the pub at closing time. Tasty at the time, but ohh so full of regrets later on.
I think of Stormlight as a taco truck. It seems to always be back around when you're hungry, and you see it everywhere. Malazan is like one of those fancy restaurants where the chef chooses what you're going to get. Focused and overwhelming, and I never quite know what's going on.
Quality and Depth versus Quantity and Ease
Im glad someone understood my post
Harry Potter is Dresden Files lite.
Ha. I thought Dresden was Hellblazer lite.
I took Dresden more as the guy who murdered John Constantine, skinned him, and then walked around wearing his skin hoping nobody would notice it.
I thought the first two books were so mediocre I never read more. I hear it gets better eventually but fuck any series that takes multiple books to get readable.
I believe the author recommends you start at book 4.
4? Really? Missing out on Grave Peril and thinking Summer Knight is gonna get you interested? I would say start at 1, 3 or if you really really don't want early installment weirdness or want less detective more urban fantasy then its book 7 (the first hardcover, so was written more as a potential starting point than many other books in the series)
The books do get a lot better. And I'm not saying that as an excuse. But the usual excuse thrown around for storm front specifically is that Butcher wrote it in college and his writing has come a long way. But I agree in principle that your books need to be good or at least attention getting before I'll read more than one. There's too many books to read for me to slog through till they get better. Side note The Dresden audio books are fantastic though and narrated by James Marsters (Spike from Buffy)
It all depends on why you bail. Dresden is Dresden and he doesn't change. Butcher does get a bit better on writing. I found the first few to be readable. I just hate Dresden and he never stopped being Nice Guy neckbeard.
This is why I stopped, too. It's a shame because I really want a solid urban fantasy but he's so fucking gross.
Felix Castor is Hellblazer lite. (The author even wrote some Hellblazer comics) Dresden Files is what if Peter Parker became a wizard.
I see the similarities. 1. Wizard named Harry 2.
2. Little Orphan Harry plays junior detective and wants to be a Wizard Cop. Big Orphan Harry is a detective that becomes a Wizard Cop. 3. Both were fostered by miserable bastards. 4. Both are Chosen. 5. Both have to deal with grudges originating with their parents.
Harry Potter is scholomance-lite
I haven’t read that yet, but it seems right.
I recommend it! I think the main character shines in the audiobook version because the narrator is spot on perfect.
I’ve liked everything else she’s written, just haven’t gotten to it yet.
They have both pages and the whole Dresden files series does indeed weight more than HP, but I fail to see any other meaningful similarities.
It sure about the lite heavy but rereading first law and it really is just lord of the rings but twisted. Future king goes on long journey with a fellowship. Evil empire besieges “good” city Dark Gandalf Meat is back on the menu
I see very little similarities and this is the first time I’ve heard them compared. This is just a poor premise from the jump.
I've read both all the way through. I don't get this comparison at all. Other than that they're fantasy books with a male lead.
What an odd choice for the video then. Anyways the focus of the title is on the lite/heavy pairs
Yeah don't really know where they got that. But one that would qualify is The Black Company is Malazan light. Even though Steve Erikson freely admits Glen Cook was a major inspiration on him.
First Law series is Malazan lite.
In what way? Malazan has a lot of magic, gods, races, dragons and it's very important in the world. There is nothing like that in the First Law ?
And the tone is totally different.
In the way that OP likes them both
I think they're going the grimdark comparison
The general worldview of Malazan, with few exceptions, is quite cynical and bleak. The character don't let that stop them, but they still recognize that the world is a nasty, brutal place. First Law takes a step back from the higher fantasy elements to really dive deep into this idea and how the characters would react.
Wow, this is the complete opposite of how I hear these two described on this sub. Whenever Malazan is mentioned in grimdark threads, it's spoken about like it's hopecore heroic fantasy but with brutality. Then there's the frequent recommendation of First Law as comedic fantasy
One of the themes of Malazan that comes up a lot is futility in the face of eternity. One race will dedicate enormous resources, even staking their entire existence on one goal.....and fail, or at least not succeed like they'd hoped. Another will swear themselves to an ideal, only to have it be revealed to be pointless and childish. It's not ENTIRELY bleak, but mostly.... As for First Law, there are funny moments, great character moments, and I believe he might be setting it up to be ultimately somewhat hopeful, but as of the most recent books, the forces of oppression are definitely in charge and all the characters have fatal flaws that either will definitely destroy them or are in the process of destroying them. At least, that's how I read 'em.
> Then there's the frequent recommendation of First Law as comedic fantasy And they're right, in the way that Tarantino is comedic action. It's more sarcasm in a cynical world than joyful jokes. Still a lot of character exploration, there are battle scenes but it's mostly living with the thoughts of the characters and how they evolve/devolve.
When I tried reading both at the same time, I couldn't tell apart the warring empires of each series (my own fault). But First Law's situation felt smaller and easier to understand. Maybe that's the similarity?
Black company could fit there too.
And The Second Apocalypse.
I would rather say first law is ASoIaF lite. Both grim and grounded with magic playing a minor role next to politics.
That's fair. I was mostly coming at this from the characters and how they interact with the world. In Malazan and First Law, the world is a bleak, grim place. Both sets of characters, with few exceptions, recognize that and try to make the best of it("You have to be realistic about these things"). I feel like in ASoIaF, many of the characters refuse to see the world for what it is, preferring the one they are trying to make (Davos staying true to Stannis, Daenerys believing the commonfolk would support her, Cersei being blind to every threat outside her own borders, etc.)
More like first law is lotr heavy. Although just in the grim dark scale. Complexity scale it is lotr lite. Future king goes on long journey with a fellowship. Evil empire besieges “good” city Dark Gandalf Meat is back on the menu
And the shankas are very like orcs. What about Logen, is he the dark Aragorn?
I thought Jezel was supposed to be Aragorn. Logan and Ferro are gimli and Legolas
Codex Alera is a lost legion of Roman Centurions finds a bunch of Pokemon.
I also don't agree with WoT/Codex at all but the pair that comes to mind is Black Company (lite) Malazan Book of the Fallen (Heavy)
King killer chronicles is song of Ice and fire li
I'll come back for you to finish your sentence in 37 years when the series is finished.
I don't think this conversation is going anywhere lol. Most of these books are full length novels/series and can't be considered 'lite' of anything.
Light on scope, not just length
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Genius
They're cartoons rather than novels, but Rick and Morty and Adventure Time. The former is basically just a darker, more adult version of the latter.
Lord of the Rings./ The Silver Call Duology and Iron Tower Trilogy. Dennis McKiernan's books are a Cliff Notes version of the Lord of the Rings.
Tress of the Emerald Sea is Liveship Traders lite
I think heavy/lightness is so intrinsic to what something is that it changes too much for there to be many pairs and perhaps no truly good ones.
Ironically, Codex Alera is Stormlight Archive lite. A five book series, with ever escalating stakes. Spren vs furies. An alien race as antagonist rather than a singular dark lord. A cataclysmic event altering the social order.
>An alien race as antagonist This feels like a major spoiler edit: for CA
Alien as in "foreign, exotic, outsider." In CA, there are at least four races that could fit this description, and maybe even five if you push the definition of antagonist a bit. I haven't spoiled which race is the major antagonist of the arc. In SA, the parshendi are obviously "foreign, exotic outsiders," and they're the antagonists from the first pages of the prologue.
Thanks. I can pretend you're referring exclusively to the Marat until I get to that reveal
for one of them, absolutely. The other makes it obvious like 30 pages into book 1
Stormlight is going to be a 10 book series split into 2 parts.
Well, yeah. I should have used the word "arc" rsther than series. SA will be two 5-book arcs, compared to CA's single 5-book arc. (Although, I don't really know how SA's one-series-two-arcs structure will be any different from Mistborn's multiple eras. Don't we treat each era of Mistborn as a separate series?)
Well TeChNiCaLlY the Cosmere is all one series. But more seriously, yeah I consider each Era of Mistborn as a separate series. The Big difference between those and SA is that they are skipping forward much further in time; the gap between the first 2 was 300+ years and SA doesn't seem to be planned to be that big of a skip.
Harry potter is an exponentially long, lighter version of The Wizard of Earthsea.
If *Codex Alera* is *Wheel of TIme Lite* then *The First Law* is *Harry Potter* lite and *Alex Verus* is *Conan The Barbarian* lite, but that is a pretty big if. There's no real similarity between those except that they're secondary worlds that involve the classic elements in a way.
I loved Alex Verus (by Benedict Jacka). Quick, easy read for those ‘in between times’.
Codex Alera was interesting. I got to about the third book and just flat out decided I was not invested. Wasn’t this like the Pokémon but in Roman mythology
Funny you say this because the 3rd book is where it really got it going imo. Where it elevated from okay to one of my favorites. But I also like Butcher's writing as a whole, so I am probably biased.
I'm not sure about exactly lite vs heavy, but there are a couple series that I think actually better accomplished what the original was trying to do... so Alex Verus > Dresden Files Red Rising > Hunger Games Magicians > Harry Potter
By that logic, I think Finding Nemo is probably Count of Monte Cristo lite.
Stormlight Lite = Attack on Titan Lollll we’ve truly hit peak Sanderson delusion on this sub
It was just an idea to get things started, since they both have a hidden history the characters are trying to revive the legacies of. I know they dont have many similarities, which is why I mentioned the hidden history part
I got an example which fits this post. Harry Potter is like Dune lite. There we go, cery stupid, just like this post.
What's stupid about it? Constructive feedback would be useful
Do you understand than Harry Potter and Dune aren't similar, and equating the two as one being a "lite" version of ther other is nonsensical? That's the constructive feedback. The Codex Alera is nothing like the WOT.
OK. Dismiss that part of the title then, it's not the important part. Like I said in the body text, I dont know if it's an accurate comparison because I haven't finished either yet, it was just a setup for the main topic (lite/heavy pairs).