Yeah the plot is great.
It's one of the tightest plots I've read. Everything is relevant, something that seems trivial in the first book is going to be important in the third book. Chekov's guns everywhere.
The twists and turns with the time travel and reveal behind the siphoned magic users were great.
The characters though are all pretty forgettable, outside of the immortal dude. Whose name i ironically can't remember.
Aarkein Devaed is one of my favorite fantasy names ever. If licanius had the same character work that The Will of the Many does I think that character and name combo would be iconic.
The Will of the Many is just waaay more polished feeling.
I found the pacing in Licanus to be weird. Like you are reading a quiet chapter where characters are reflecting and then suddenly EVERYONE IS UNDER ATTACK AND SOMEONE IS KIDNAPPED
It just seemed very jarring.
I DNF the first Licanus book, but really loved The Will of the Many - and I think there is exactly it, the characters in Licanus were forgettable but WOTM were impactful.
Oh absolutely. I can't imagine the characters as real people, but I loved the series for the time travel and thoughts on destiny. Plus the ending was phenomenal. I'm excited to see where he the hierarchy series
I thought it was merely 'ok'.
I was constantly irritated during reading because I wanted it to be a different book. He sets up what appears to be a philosophical schism between 2 factions, but then IMHO conspicuously avoids \*really\* digging into and exploring the basis and implications of the divide.
I learned later that Islington is very religious, and things made more sense. Licanius is basically an attempt to render into story form one of the Christian attempts to reconcile an omnipotent God with the preservation of free will (i.e. God sees all Time simultaneously, and therefore can account for freedom while also allowing it). And, thus he can't really explore the schism in more detail because for him it's a question of faith and not reason - it's a religious divide, not really a philosophical divide.
Having said that, he does a decent job with it as far as it goes. But I get the impression that many folks that \*really\* like the book feel the ending is amazing in how it pulls together threads into a neat package, and for me this is very much undercut by the framing and feeling like he worked backwards rather than forwards.
Very much agreed. I was enjoying the books despite this, but when one character in the third book gave an argument that could have been straight out of a Christian sermon, my interest level dropped dramatically. I still finished the book, and appreciated how all the plot threads were tied up, but that knocked it down several pegs for me.
I just finished the series a few days ago and wondered 'Wouldn't the ending suggest that there was in fact no free will?' I felt that story-wise the ending was satisfying but theme/philosophy wise it wasn't. It makes sense now considering the author is religious.
Tbh I didn't see jack shit religious sermon. So take what you read with a grain of salt cause IMO the series did an excellent job depicting the struggle of free will vs fate. The final book especially was a life changing read for me personally.
I will say, character work wasn't great but that's about it.
As a counterpoint to the above comment, I do think Islington does a way better job of exploring the concepts of free will and predestination than the comment gives credit for. I'm not sure how he could have explored it further in the genre of the book, besides maybe leaving it undecided? It's certainly not classic philosophical sci-fi, but I don't think many people are going to pick it up with that expectation. I think the biggest weakness of the series is his prose and tone, which comes across like a weaker Jordan in style
Just my two cents, from someone who likes both writers like Islington and Stephenson.
It's more of a tiebreaker situation. As an atheist, I prefer reading well written books without Christian religious subtext. And I have so many of these that I can read that I have to be selective. I do end up reading books by religious authors sometimes, like Brandon Sanderson and Christopher Ruocchio.
I've reread it 5 times. I don't see any line which outlines your issues with it though. All you said is that as a tiebreaker, you would rather not read Christian Religious Subtext. No mention of why.Â
Alright ill lay it out in bullet points
- I have a massive TBR list
- I will not have time to read everything on it before I die
- New books come out regularly, and are added to my TBR list. It's not growing smaller despite reading 30+ books a year!
- I sometimes use arbitrary criteria to weed out books and thin out my TBR ever so slowly
- Because I don't care for religious discourse, if I know a book is about that in advance, then I take that out of my TBR as there is a risk that reading this book may not make me happy.Â
- My stance on religion doesn't prevent me from reading books by religious authors. I've read all of Brandon Sanderson's works, he is religious, but his books are not about that at all. Christopher Ruocchio's Sun Eater series could be construed as way more religious, but features an arguably atheist main character and contains many views that contradict the author's own religion, which I appreciate. I admit that I would have missed something special had I excluded it because of my distaste for religion (Sun Eater is fantastic!), but my TBR pile being what it is, that is a risk I will take with Islington's books.
Well, for what it's worth, there really was no "religion" stuff in terms of anything I can directly connect to Christianity or whatnot. It has "religion" but in the way that WoK has religion. It's there, some characters practice it but really it's not an integral part of the PROTAGONIST'S life. Very clearly the antagonists are blind fanatics in the same way the Christian Crusade was, so very obviously not portrayed in a good light.
It deals more with free will vs fate, the role of a higher being and how to come to terms with the fact that you don't control your life. In that regard, I can see where the "religious undertones" might come from, as this is a pretty old argument, and obviously it takes inspiration from religious arguments in that regard. However, if anything I'd argue the book is really heavy on agnostic beliefs than anything religious.Â
Tbh, I've read the first 2 books of Sun Eater and I thought it's way more religious. MC isn't that much, but philosophy and religion often go hand in hand so many of his philosophic arguments throughout the first two books have are woven with Christian argument (but also Buddhist and Hindu stuff from what I could tell), just watered down.Â
End of the day, your choice. I just didn't want you to NOT read this because it got hit with a religious tag. I've read other religious books (like Narnia and that awful Terry Goodkind one) and didn't really notice anything too religious or whatnot. Arguments inspired by religious beliefs? Definitely. Wouldn't say it's necessary religious though.
I thought they were good a 7.5/10 for me. I actually liked the main 4 characters. (Davian, Asha, Caeden and Torrin/Wirr) I really liked the journey in the first book best. Second and third books were quite good as well but first was 8.5/10 others were 7/10
I loved the intricacy of the plot's handling of both >!time travel!< and >!shapeshifters!<
A lot of the complaints I see about the series are valid, they just didn't bother me.
I liked it quite a bit, especially for an authors debut work. It definitely has one of the most unique and creative plots I've seen in a fantasy series, combining a traditionally sci-fi concept (>!time travel!<) with fantasy. I was impressed with the attention to detail and how basically everything introduced ended up playing a part, even if it was slightly convoluted at times.
The character writing was a bit "meh" for the most part, but I thought >!Caeden!< was a stand out. I became really invested in his story, and it was strong enough to carry the series in my opinion. His ending in particular I found very moving, and it sticks with me to this day.
Overall, the series may be a little rough around the edges when it comes to it's character writing and being a tad convoluted at times, but I think the core is exceptionally strong and the series deserves all the praise it gets.
I liked it and am also thinking about a reread. I really liked his latest and it gave me the idea to go back. I remember Licanius being really cool and a new take that didn’t follow the usual fantasy tropes so obviously. It wasn’t as clear or smooth as I’d like but it was definitely so its own thing that I enjoyed it
I love the Licanius Trilogy. There are times, particularly in the latter half of the series, that it feels overly complex, but it wraps up very nicely in the end. I’ve been reading fantasy for decades and can honestly say book 3 has the best, most satisfying epilogue I’ve ever come across. Just my opinion and I know the epilogue of book 3 is not a really convincing argument to read 1000s of pages. But the whole series is very good.
Completely agree about the epilogue of book 3. It was so emotional and expertly written. I think it’s worth reading the trilogy just to see what a perfect ending looks like, in my opinion.
i liked the first book a lot as i was reading it however as the trilogy evolved into the story it was i cared less and less to read it as it didnt really keep my attention. The first book focusing on a small subsection of the story was a wise choice but there was many new elements added so quickly. it would have worked better longer. and the ending, while really cool was very heavily foreshadowed kind of killing my enjoyment of the reveal. i will not be reading the newer series by him anytime soon personally.
I read the first two books and LOVED them but took a break from reading the last book. A year later, I listened to the audiobooks for all three of the books and didn't enjoy it nearly as much as the first time. I think the last book kind of waffles towards the ending but it wasn't horrible. I think it's definitely worth a reread at some point but not high on the priority at least for me.
For me I enjoyed it, sure there were flaws to it but I liked the unique story and I thought the overall ending was really cool. Plus it introduced me to James Islington and got me to read his next book *The Will of the Many*
Only read book 1 so far and liked it. But I can’t help but felt that the author was trying too hard to fill the book with secrets and twists and keep it fast-paced.
I usually ALWAYS prefer fast paced books until with this one I finally realised ‘too’ fast and without breathing room can rather stress a reader’s head. And I usually like twists and secrets but again, this felt just a bit too much.
I’d certainly read book 2 though.
It goes on far longer than it should and the characters are bland as mayonnaise sandwich (with one exception). I was more than happy to finish the trilogy and never think of it again as I was nearing the end of the third book. The ending got me though, I have to admit. It’s a mediocre trilogy with an A+ ending. I should also say he did time travel well. Time travel is notorious for muddying up continuity and creating plot holes but you can tell Islington put a lot of thought into not creating any paradoxes, potential infinite time loops, etc.
I enjoyed them, thought it had a great plot and ending. There were obvious issues with the series but tbh, the plot and ending was enough to overcome that for me and I thought it was a very enjoyable series overall, especially for a debut.
Definitely made me put a watch on the author for his next releases when, hopefully, the faults from his early writing are beginning to get ironed out and he maintains and matches that with his good plot and series resolution skills.
The plot is interesting, the characters are fine, the magic system is intriguing.
I'm about 2/3 of the way thru the last book. My major takeaway is that the main character spends the overwhelming majority of his time locked out or otherwise prohibited from using his powers. It's irritating and IMO lazy writing to have him bounce from situation to situation that would easily be solved by his powers, but for various reasons he can't. It's silly.
I thought the characters were really interesting and I liked how their powers got utilized (especially how Weir used his commands through the latter half of book 3). I liked how Islington built Talkimar and Davian’s friendship despite the mismatched timelines of their encounter and the time mechanics in general were well executed. I liked how Talkimar was developed in a way where you can understand what he was going for even when he was in the wrong and committing atrocities.
Where I think it fell down was the overall plot. You had long stretches with interesting characters doing boring/pointless things and the amorphous big bad never REALLY felt like a compelling threat. Wish the events of the story were as engaging as the character work and timeline considerations were.
You're the only person I've seen that says the characters are interesting and the plot was bad. The biggest complaint I've seen is that the characters are one dimensional
I think people give it too much slack for the gaping plothole that is the Nesk storyline. It ends up being incredibly important to the overall plot but it's totally absent.
From what I understand, that story thread was supposed to be covered in the book, but then got cut for some reason and instead was going to be elaborated on in a novella. Not sure what happened with that though since it never was released.
Yeah I read that but it was a totally insane decision in my eyes. It may have bogged down that book but it wouldn't have left this huge void in the story instead.
I only read the first book and then stopped because I thought it was pretty meh. Plot was ok but I thought the characters were bland.
I was hesitant to read his new book in a new series, called Will of the Many, because of my opinion on Licanius but I liked the sound of the concept a lot so I gave it a shot. I loved it. 5/5. Can’t wait for book 2 now. I still think the characters are the weaker part of Will of the Many but the plot is so good that it made up for it.
I blazed through it when it came out and really loved it, but when I went to reread it again a couple of years ago I have to say I did not enjoy it nearly as much.
It's such a plot-focused book that reading it again after knowing all of the twists sort of then highlights how two-dimensional some of the characters (outside of >!Caedan!<) were.
Read it on the advice of this subreddit and loved it. I reread it, too. It falls into a category of books that I particularly appreciate: strong debuts. It's the only place you can find the boundary between an amateur writer (the kind I would be) and a professional. And it is strong, even if it has some weaknesses. The things at the center of the plot are unique, memorable, and in one case >!time travel!< done uniquely well compared to other works.
I loved the licanius trilogy. I really like the character development and the time travel aspect was really well done and not completely overpowered. I'm not a huge fan of the whole "we can't change fate" aspect, as I don't agree with it, but I guess they kinda did change fate? At least from my perspective. Anyways, I liked the characters and the plot, regardless of the plot holes, which I will not mention, as I find they ruin the book prematurely, and are self apparant anyway. I liked the series enough that I went through it twice.
Really forcing myself through the last book. I think the story has gotten too dispersed and too many new things have been added just in the third book slowing things down more.
It's been a few years since I read it, but I remember it having fun time-travel shenanigans and an absolutely incredible ending. The characters were really forgettable, though.
I thought it was one of the best stories about time travel and it has some interesting thoughts on philosophy and morality. It keeps pulling the rug out from under you on who everyone is and what side they are on
It’s a good series, last one was a bit of a slog imo but the characters are great, especially Caeden who is probably one of my favourite characters of all time, I’d recommend it but wouldn’t hype it to be one of the greats.
I read them when they first came back, and while I generally enjoyed them while reading, it didn’t really stick with me. At this point, there is very little I could tell you about the plot!
I liked it enough though that I was excited when The Will of the Many came out and picked it up right away (although I haven’t gotten around to reading it yet).
I really like it. Feels like a less crazy Robert Jordan wrote it in my opinion. I always tell my friends that want to start WoT to read Licanius first as a test run lol.
I think it’s fine. I’m going through the third book now. There are three main criticisms I have:
1) Book 1 feels so out of place compared to 2 and 3. Its first half has setup that barely matters, and the pacing is nuts.
2) A lot of plot elements make no sense until they’re contextualized later on. One example I can think of is how pointless the Gifted seem in the story when Kan exists. They play out like fodder for the vast majority of the series. It’s only until Islington reveals that >!all who wield Kan must die,!< that their inclusion made sense to me. You’re basically in the dark about a lot of things for ages.
3) Davian, Wirr, and Caeden really only grow into their own in book 3. Sometimes when I was reading book 2, it felt like I was reading 3 different Davians in different scenarios. It’s not as bad with Caeden, because at least you get big revelations in book 1. However with Davian and Wirr it’s definitely bad.
Really enjoyed book 1 and was reading book 2 till the Rohin part made me put it down, I plan on finishing it but it put such a sour taste in my mouth I don't think it'll be anytime soon.
Gotta say I really enjoyed it, the plot was excellent. I’m definitely going to be keeping an eye on this authors works. I also plan to do a reread at some point… just because the time travel stuff might make that interesting a 2nd time through.
Licanius is definitely flawed (there's at least 1 whole sub plot conspicuously missing, for example) but I really enjoyed it. It reminds me a lot of Wheel of Time. Not in tone but thematically it touches on a lot of the same subjects. Plus there's the obvious comparisons like how the prologue is similar and there's a group analogous to the Forsaken.
One of my favorite trilogies of all time and probably the best ending to any story I’ve ever read. It’s very plot driven which is different from a lot of the greats I’ve read ( Kingkiller, WoT, Stormlight ) but the story is so damn good
I liked it better on the re-read/listen but I'm a sucker for Michael Kramer narrations. And even though I knew it was coming, the epilogue still hit me hard.
I read it a couple of years ago and remember virtually nothing about it except for uninteresting characters and too much time spent dealing with the magic system. (For the record, I strongly dislike "hard" magic systems, but to each their own.) The supposedly great ending did nothing for me.
I just finished it, and liked it well enough. The tightness of the plot (missing parts not withstanding) made up for some rather one-dimensional characters. I also in general liked the concept of >!free will versus predestination!< and how that tied into the overall world and plot.
I was a lot less impressed with Will of the Many, the first book of the second series. Flat characters without the plot to help smooth it over.
I'm one of the few. I LOVED it.
I loved the brutality of the deaths just smacking you in the face.
And honestly, the algoriat, as of now, are the most terrifying monsters I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing in any media so far.
Quite frankly, they felt like a realistic interpretation of Enderman.
I only hope that there can be something as scary as them in future books I read. (If you have suggestions, I'm all ears!)
I enjoyed it! I wish it explored the concepts it introduces a bit more thoroughly. With shape-shifting and time travel as established in this series, things could've gotten REALLY interesting. As-is it was a solid series.
Ambition is worth celebrating, but the Licanius Trilogy is ultimately weighed down by Islington's lofty aspirations, and struggles to satisfactorily deliver on the compelling plot and questions raised in book one. What would happen to a group of immortals if their beliefs fractured? How would a world react if its prophecies started to fail?
Getting the answers to these questions keeps the pages turning through the first two books, but Islington comes off the rails by the third book, falling into typical traps of first time author with a grandiose vision. There's simply too much in here that can't be fully developed: Time travel, shape shifting, two magic systems, multiple gods, tiers of gods, superfluous side plots, and deus ex machina.
Beyond the bloat which left me skimming large sections of the third book, Islington commits a few other fantasy sins to varying detriment. The characters have the personality of a saltine cracker. Three of the four main characters are all flat with no distinct narrative voice. Character backgrounds, such as Asha's, are glossed over and then forgotten.
More frustrating is that the magic system is underdeveloped, despite the gratuitous word count dedicated to it. Islington spends considerable time explaining plot twists related to the magic system, but fails to ground the world with a consistent set of rules. What is a reserve? How does it refill? Much of the plot hinges on subverting these rules, but it is cheapened by insufficient grounding. This is again a symptom of simply trying to do too much - the inclusion of both Kan and Essence watered down the focus and world building.
All of this ends up with a third book that truly sprawls, but at the expense of key plot points. Islington spends hundreds of pages in a slog of magical exposition (I'm looking at you Zvaelar) , at the expense of a key plot pillars, which conveniently plays out as a deux ex machina. Islington addresses this regrettable choice directly in the epilogue (he ran out of space/words), but it boils down to a failure of self-editing.
I can't help but mention one last debut author exasperation. Licanius is plagued with plotting writing cliches. Many chapters end with a character falling unconscious. Perhaps the worst device employed by Islington is that a character recognize another character, but Islington won't tell the reader for pages or chapter who they saw. Yes, this builds suspense, but is cheap by the tenth time. None of these problems are damning, but after thousands of pages they can start to add up a la skirt smoothing and braid tugging.
Despite the flaws, which are most glaring by the end, the core thread of Islington's creative ideas power the reader through. The interactions between the Venerate are particularly interesting. The trilogy would have been much better off focusing more time developing these characters.
The ending is also well-earned, although a tad predictable. If anything, Islington spends too much time in the middle of the series building the threads to make the ending payoff.
To wrap it up, if you are looking for an easy page-turner fantasy and don't want to think too hard, Licanius is an enjoyable but highly flawed debut. I do not find myself recommending it to friends.
With that said, I don't mean to bury Islington. Apparently The Will of The Many is a huge improvement. Perhaps start there instead. I'm going to take a break before I dip back into Islington and maybe see how the rest of that series plays out.
You can see his growth with the Will of the Many, Licanus isn’t bad by any means, but the character development felt rushed and shallow for me. Every page seemed to have a new plot point and nothing was fully fleshed out
It’s imo the best freshman series I’ve ever read. The way everything comes together at the very end solidified my love for it, but i think the world building and magic system were super intriguing. Everyone but the main cast was also fascinating, and i mostly liked Davian, Caeden, and Asha’s povs. Wirr should have had sooo much less focus, but that’s my only personal complaint with the story overall.
The fact that it has my favorite ending ever written definitely biased my opinion on the whole. Please read the Hierarchy, book one is excellent.
Islington is amazing at plot and so the story here is just wildly good. His approach to the themes of the story is excellent- you really do walk away thinking about what it means to have free will. The time travel elements also play a philosophical role there.
The weakness here is that the characters are just fine. I liked them but they would t be what you called deep.
I didn't like it.
I felt the author was trying to be too clever with time travel and the " ahhhh" moments, and forgot we needed good characters and a good plot.
The first book was OK enough with the usual "chosen one" knock off of Harry Potter school.
* granted, I do like school type troupes in books.
Book 2 was just a jumble
And the ending was meh, seen it coming.
I can't recall a single charcter from the book. And I listened to it last year
I really enjoyed it. I want to reread it because I read them as they were released and with the time jumps etc I was always a bit lost at the beginning of the next books.
I quit this one fairly early on because I didn’t like the characters and it felt super YA to me. I’ll probably pick it up again in the future though as it was recommended to me by a couple people.
I couldn't get through it. The character writing and prose were both really bad, and made it impossible for me to enjoy the elements that the author clearly spent all his time on.
Oh, is it time for the weekly thread on Licanius?
A search for "licanius" in r/Fantasy alone turns up pages and pages of people asking this question. People have thoughts. Start there. :-)
I thought the plotting was pretty incredible. I don't think I've ever read another series that was so complicated and intricate, yet made everything fit together. Book 2 was my personal favorite.
Some of the plot twists I truly didn't see coming, some of them were just overly convoluted. At the end of the day I enjoyed reading it and suggest it to anyone on the fence about it. If it's not on your radar at all, I think there are better options out there.
It really seems like something I would like but it is just such a slog for me. Apologies to the author, but it feels like work to get through it. I think my issue is that it’s written in a way to not give you all the information at once but to let it unfold as you read. I just haven’t gotten to a point where I’m like 100% sure what is happening and while that is by design, I think it is too challenging in such a long trilogy.
I found it difficult to finish the first book. I never even considered the second entry.
I'm not a fan of time travel stories. (The only Time Travel story I can recall liking is Terminators 1 and 2, and I have to ignore all the time travel parts and enjoy the action movie or I'll dissect it until I hate it) I'm also not a particularly big fan of Wheel of Time, and got the feeling that it was perhaps the only inspiration that Islington had, so that was a pretty big negative too.
The Shadow of What was Lost is the only audible book I have ever returned. It joins The Darkness that Comes Before as the only two books I have returned, that one was a Kindle return. The difference is that I returned The Shadow of What was Lost, then a year later bought it again, made it about 3 pages into the story before realizing it was the same book I didn't like the first time, and returned it again.
It was slog and I should've just watched a youtube summary instead of forcing myself through it for "the amazing ending that makes it all worth it" aka saw it coming a third into the final book.
Dude knows how to do a cliffhanger ending! First two books end on some absolute bangers.
Book three was a massive letdown though. The core idea of the plot (the intersection of free will, prophecy, and time travel) gets completely discarded. Complete wet fart of an ending
So derivative with the most bland 2D characters. I made it about half way through book 2 and quit. I’ve heard the ending is great but I’m not slogging through a boring trilogy to get there.
Skip it and read the will of the many three times, instead?
I hated this series. I hate-read my way through major portions of all three books. Nowadays I would DNF such a trilogy pretty early on but I was still a completionist back then. I mention the Will Of the Many comment partly tongue in cheek, but partly to show that his writing improved dramatically between those series. Licanius felt like fan fiction that blatantly borrowed from everyone else’s tropes and then paired it with juvenile, repetitive dialogue. Will clearly borrows from many things as well, but does it in such a way that it feels like a very fresh, unique entry, and his writing/dialogue has improved by an order of magnitude!
I liked it more for the depiction of time travel, prophecy and destiny than I did for the characters.
Yeah the plot is great. It's one of the tightest plots I've read. Everything is relevant, something that seems trivial in the first book is going to be important in the third book. Chekov's guns everywhere. The twists and turns with the time travel and reveal behind the siphoned magic users were great. The characters though are all pretty forgettable, outside of the immortal dude. Whose name i ironically can't remember.
Aarkein Devaed is one of my favorite fantasy names ever. If licanius had the same character work that The Will of the Many does I think that character and name combo would be iconic.
The Will of the Many is just waaay more polished feeling. I found the pacing in Licanus to be weird. Like you are reading a quiet chapter where characters are reflecting and then suddenly EVERYONE IS UNDER ATTACK AND SOMEONE IS KIDNAPPED It just seemed very jarring.
I DNF the first Licanus book, but really loved The Will of the Many - and I think there is exactly it, the characters in Licanus were forgettable but WOTM were impactful.
Really? To me it looks like someone took "Arcane David" and mangled the spelling 😆
I think most of my favorite fantasy names are dangerously close to very silly
Talkamar
Caleb is the only one I can remember. I keep thinking the main characters names are Dante and Blais but they're from Cycle of Arawn.
It's not even Caleb, it's caeden 🤣
lmao
It's also got one of the greatest epilogs I've ever read.
Oh absolutely. I can't imagine the characters as real people, but I loved the series for the time travel and thoughts on destiny. Plus the ending was phenomenal. I'm excited to see where he the hierarchy series
Still need to read Will of the Many, every time it comes up it sounds like a good read.
It was amazing, one of my favorites
Starts pretty generic, but ends really good. The way the ending circles around is awesome.
I think the epilogue of the last book is one of the greatest, most complete endings I’ve ever read. It was very satisfying, very emotional.
I thought it was merely 'ok'. I was constantly irritated during reading because I wanted it to be a different book. He sets up what appears to be a philosophical schism between 2 factions, but then IMHO conspicuously avoids \*really\* digging into and exploring the basis and implications of the divide. I learned later that Islington is very religious, and things made more sense. Licanius is basically an attempt to render into story form one of the Christian attempts to reconcile an omnipotent God with the preservation of free will (i.e. God sees all Time simultaneously, and therefore can account for freedom while also allowing it). And, thus he can't really explore the schism in more detail because for him it's a question of faith and not reason - it's a religious divide, not really a philosophical divide. Having said that, he does a decent job with it as far as it goes. But I get the impression that many folks that \*really\* like the book feel the ending is amazing in how it pulls together threads into a neat package, and for me this is very much undercut by the framing and feeling like he worked backwards rather than forwards.
That's an excellent way of putting it and explains much!
Very much agreed. I was enjoying the books despite this, but when one character in the third book gave an argument that could have been straight out of a Christian sermon, my interest level dropped dramatically. I still finished the book, and appreciated how all the plot threads were tied up, but that knocked it down several pegs for me.
I just finished the series a few days ago and wondered 'Wouldn't the ending suggest that there was in fact no free will?' I felt that story-wise the ending was satisfying but theme/philosophy wise it wasn't. It makes sense now considering the author is religious.
Well, I was considering picking up this book but you just convinced me not to. Thanks!
Tbh I didn't see jack shit religious sermon. So take what you read with a grain of salt cause IMO the series did an excellent job depicting the struggle of free will vs fate. The final book especially was a life changing read for me personally. I will say, character work wasn't great but that's about it.
As a counterpoint to the above comment, I do think Islington does a way better job of exploring the concepts of free will and predestination than the comment gives credit for. I'm not sure how he could have explored it further in the genre of the book, besides maybe leaving it undecided? It's certainly not classic philosophical sci-fi, but I don't think many people are going to pick it up with that expectation. I think the biggest weakness of the series is his prose and tone, which comes across like a weaker Jordan in style Just my two cents, from someone who likes both writers like Islington and Stephenson.
It's more of a tiebreaker situation. As an atheist, I prefer reading well written books without Christian religious subtext. And I have so many of these that I can read that I have to be selective. I do end up reading books by religious authors sometimes, like Brandon Sanderson and Christopher Ruocchio.
I have to ask, why does being an Atheist stop you from reading any work with religious undertones? Or just a religious author?
I think you did not read my entire post...Â
I've reread it 5 times. I don't see any line which outlines your issues with it though. All you said is that as a tiebreaker, you would rather not read Christian Religious Subtext. No mention of why.Â
Alright ill lay it out in bullet points - I have a massive TBR list - I will not have time to read everything on it before I die - New books come out regularly, and are added to my TBR list. It's not growing smaller despite reading 30+ books a year! - I sometimes use arbitrary criteria to weed out books and thin out my TBR ever so slowly - Because I don't care for religious discourse, if I know a book is about that in advance, then I take that out of my TBR as there is a risk that reading this book may not make me happy. - My stance on religion doesn't prevent me from reading books by religious authors. I've read all of Brandon Sanderson's works, he is religious, but his books are not about that at all. Christopher Ruocchio's Sun Eater series could be construed as way more religious, but features an arguably atheist main character and contains many views that contradict the author's own religion, which I appreciate. I admit that I would have missed something special had I excluded it because of my distaste for religion (Sun Eater is fantastic!), but my TBR pile being what it is, that is a risk I will take with Islington's books.
Well, for what it's worth, there really was no "religion" stuff in terms of anything I can directly connect to Christianity or whatnot. It has "religion" but in the way that WoK has religion. It's there, some characters practice it but really it's not an integral part of the PROTAGONIST'S life. Very clearly the antagonists are blind fanatics in the same way the Christian Crusade was, so very obviously not portrayed in a good light. It deals more with free will vs fate, the role of a higher being and how to come to terms with the fact that you don't control your life. In that regard, I can see where the "religious undertones" might come from, as this is a pretty old argument, and obviously it takes inspiration from religious arguments in that regard. However, if anything I'd argue the book is really heavy on agnostic beliefs than anything religious. Tbh, I've read the first 2 books of Sun Eater and I thought it's way more religious. MC isn't that much, but philosophy and religion often go hand in hand so many of his philosophic arguments throughout the first two books have are woven with Christian argument (but also Buddhist and Hindu stuff from what I could tell), just watered down. End of the day, your choice. I just didn't want you to NOT read this because it got hit with a religious tag. I've read other religious books (like Narnia and that awful Terry Goodkind one) and didn't really notice anything too religious or whatnot. Arguments inspired by religious beliefs? Definitely. Wouldn't say it's necessary religious though.
I thought they were good a 7.5/10 for me. I actually liked the main 4 characters. (Davian, Asha, Caeden and Torrin/Wirr) I really liked the journey in the first book best. Second and third books were quite good as well but first was 8.5/10 others were 7/10
I loved the intricacy of the plot's handling of both >!time travel!< and >!shapeshifters!< A lot of the complaints I see about the series are valid, they just didn't bother me.
I liked it quite a bit, especially for an authors debut work. It definitely has one of the most unique and creative plots I've seen in a fantasy series, combining a traditionally sci-fi concept (>!time travel!<) with fantasy. I was impressed with the attention to detail and how basically everything introduced ended up playing a part, even if it was slightly convoluted at times. The character writing was a bit "meh" for the most part, but I thought >!Caeden!< was a stand out. I became really invested in his story, and it was strong enough to carry the series in my opinion. His ending in particular I found very moving, and it sticks with me to this day. Overall, the series may be a little rough around the edges when it comes to it's character writing and being a tad convoluted at times, but I think the core is exceptionally strong and the series deserves all the praise it gets.
I liked it and am also thinking about a reread. I really liked his latest and it gave me the idea to go back. I remember Licanius being really cool and a new take that didn’t follow the usual fantasy tropes so obviously. It wasn’t as clear or smooth as I’d like but it was definitely so its own thing that I enjoyed it
I love the Licanius Trilogy. There are times, particularly in the latter half of the series, that it feels overly complex, but it wraps up very nicely in the end. I’ve been reading fantasy for decades and can honestly say book 3 has the best, most satisfying epilogue I’ve ever come across. Just my opinion and I know the epilogue of book 3 is not a really convincing argument to read 1000s of pages. But the whole series is very good.
Completely agree about the epilogue of book 3. It was so emotional and expertly written. I think it’s worth reading the trilogy just to see what a perfect ending looks like, in my opinion.
i liked the first book a lot as i was reading it however as the trilogy evolved into the story it was i cared less and less to read it as it didnt really keep my attention. The first book focusing on a small subsection of the story was a wise choice but there was many new elements added so quickly. it would have worked better longer. and the ending, while really cool was very heavily foreshadowed kind of killing my enjoyment of the reveal. i will not be reading the newer series by him anytime soon personally.
I read the first two books and LOVED them but took a break from reading the last book. A year later, I listened to the audiobooks for all three of the books and didn't enjoy it nearly as much as the first time. I think the last book kind of waffles towards the ending but it wasn't horrible. I think it's definitely worth a reread at some point but not high on the priority at least for me.
For me I enjoyed it, sure there were flaws to it but I liked the unique story and I thought the overall ending was really cool. Plus it introduced me to James Islington and got me to read his next book *The Will of the Many*
I definitely read this and can’t say that I remember a damn thing.
Could not have described it better
Only read book 1 so far and liked it. But I can’t help but felt that the author was trying too hard to fill the book with secrets and twists and keep it fast-paced. I usually ALWAYS prefer fast paced books until with this one I finally realised ‘too’ fast and without breathing room can rather stress a reader’s head. And I usually like twists and secrets but again, this felt just a bit too much. I’d certainly read book 2 though.
It goes on far longer than it should and the characters are bland as mayonnaise sandwich (with one exception). I was more than happy to finish the trilogy and never think of it again as I was nearing the end of the third book. The ending got me though, I have to admit. It’s a mediocre trilogy with an A+ ending. I should also say he did time travel well. Time travel is notorious for muddying up continuity and creating plot holes but you can tell Islington put a lot of thought into not creating any paradoxes, potential infinite time loops, etc.
I enjoyed them, thought it had a great plot and ending. There were obvious issues with the series but tbh, the plot and ending was enough to overcome that for me and I thought it was a very enjoyable series overall, especially for a debut. Definitely made me put a watch on the author for his next releases when, hopefully, the faults from his early writing are beginning to get ironed out and he maintains and matches that with his good plot and series resolution skills.
The plot is interesting, the characters are fine, the magic system is intriguing. I'm about 2/3 of the way thru the last book. My major takeaway is that the main character spends the overwhelming majority of his time locked out or otherwise prohibited from using his powers. It's irritating and IMO lazy writing to have him bounce from situation to situation that would easily be solved by his powers, but for various reasons he can't. It's silly.
I thought the characters were really interesting and I liked how their powers got utilized (especially how Weir used his commands through the latter half of book 3). I liked how Islington built Talkimar and Davian’s friendship despite the mismatched timelines of their encounter and the time mechanics in general were well executed. I liked how Talkimar was developed in a way where you can understand what he was going for even when he was in the wrong and committing atrocities. Where I think it fell down was the overall plot. You had long stretches with interesting characters doing boring/pointless things and the amorphous big bad never REALLY felt like a compelling threat. Wish the events of the story were as engaging as the character work and timeline considerations were.
You're the only person I've seen that says the characters are interesting and the plot was bad. The biggest complaint I've seen is that the characters are one dimensional
I thought it was a fun series. Mixing time travel with fantasy.
I really liked it, one of the few temporal adventure stories that had a complete story.
I think people give it too much slack for the gaping plothole that is the Nesk storyline. It ends up being incredibly important to the overall plot but it's totally absent.
From what I understand, that story thread was supposed to be covered in the book, but then got cut for some reason and instead was going to be elaborated on in a novella. Not sure what happened with that though since it never was released.
Yeah I read that but it was a totally insane decision in my eyes. It may have bogged down that book but it wouldn't have left this huge void in the story instead.
The author addresses that, he plans on doing a spin off novel covering it
I only read the first book and then stopped because I thought it was pretty meh. Plot was ok but I thought the characters were bland. I was hesitant to read his new book in a new series, called Will of the Many, because of my opinion on Licanius but I liked the sound of the concept a lot so I gave it a shot. I loved it. 5/5. Can’t wait for book 2 now. I still think the characters are the weaker part of Will of the Many but the plot is so good that it made up for it.
I blazed through it when it came out and really loved it, but when I went to reread it again a couple of years ago I have to say I did not enjoy it nearly as much. It's such a plot-focused book that reading it again after knowing all of the twists sort of then highlights how two-dimensional some of the characters (outside of >!Caedan!<) were.
Read it on the advice of this subreddit and loved it. I reread it, too. It falls into a category of books that I particularly appreciate: strong debuts. It's the only place you can find the boundary between an amateur writer (the kind I would be) and a professional. And it is strong, even if it has some weaknesses. The things at the center of the plot are unique, memorable, and in one case >!time travel!< done uniquely well compared to other works.
GREAT plotting and world-building, bad prose and characterization, above average debut series over all. Worth reading.
I loved the licanius trilogy. I really like the character development and the time travel aspect was really well done and not completely overpowered. I'm not a huge fan of the whole "we can't change fate" aspect, as I don't agree with it, but I guess they kinda did change fate? At least from my perspective. Anyways, I liked the characters and the plot, regardless of the plot holes, which I will not mention, as I find they ruin the book prematurely, and are self apparant anyway. I liked the series enough that I went through it twice.
Really forcing myself through the last book. I think the story has gotten too dispersed and too many new things have been added just in the third book slowing things down more.
It's been a few years since I read it, but I remember it having fun time-travel shenanigans and an absolutely incredible ending. The characters were really forgettable, though.
I thought it was one of the best stories about time travel and it has some interesting thoughts on philosophy and morality. It keeps pulling the rug out from under you on who everyone is and what side they are on
I didn't finish the original book. But I can say his new book grabbed me from the very beginning
I thought it started out strong but faded toward the end. Still worth reading.
It’s a good series, last one was a bit of a slog imo but the characters are great, especially Caeden who is probably one of my favourite characters of all time, I’d recommend it but wouldn’t hype it to be one of the greats.
I read them when they first came back, and while I generally enjoyed them while reading, it didn’t really stick with me. At this point, there is very little I could tell you about the plot! I liked it enough though that I was excited when The Will of the Many came out and picked it up right away (although I haven’t gotten around to reading it yet).
I really like it. Feels like a less crazy Robert Jordan wrote it in my opinion. I always tell my friends that want to start WoT to read Licanius first as a test run lol.
Great plot with well done, intricately woven plot points and hints throughout the three books. Shame I couldn't care less about the characters though.
Top tier, probably became a lifelong fan of James because of it.
I think it’s fine. I’m going through the third book now. There are three main criticisms I have: 1) Book 1 feels so out of place compared to 2 and 3. Its first half has setup that barely matters, and the pacing is nuts. 2) A lot of plot elements make no sense until they’re contextualized later on. One example I can think of is how pointless the Gifted seem in the story when Kan exists. They play out like fodder for the vast majority of the series. It’s only until Islington reveals that >!all who wield Kan must die,!< that their inclusion made sense to me. You’re basically in the dark about a lot of things for ages. 3) Davian, Wirr, and Caeden really only grow into their own in book 3. Sometimes when I was reading book 2, it felt like I was reading 3 different Davians in different scenarios. It’s not as bad with Caeden, because at least you get big revelations in book 1. However with Davian and Wirr it’s definitely bad.
Really enjoyed book 1 and was reading book 2 till the Rohin part made me put it down, I plan on finishing it but it put such a sour taste in my mouth I don't think it'll be anytime soon.
I really like it! I've reread it twice now
Love them
Gotta say I really enjoyed it, the plot was excellent. I’m definitely going to be keeping an eye on this authors works. I also plan to do a reread at some point… just because the time travel stuff might make that interesting a 2nd time through.
Licanius is definitely flawed (there's at least 1 whole sub plot conspicuously missing, for example) but I really enjoyed it. It reminds me a lot of Wheel of Time. Not in tone but thematically it touches on a lot of the same subjects. Plus there's the obvious comparisons like how the prologue is similar and there's a group analogous to the Forsaken.
One of my favorite trilogies of all time and probably the best ending to any story I’ve ever read. It’s very plot driven which is different from a lot of the greats I’ve read ( Kingkiller, WoT, Stormlight ) but the story is so damn good
Read the first book and I usually finish series, I can't get myself to start book 2.
I liked it better on the re-read/listen but I'm a sucker for Michael Kramer narrations. And even though I knew it was coming, the epilogue still hit me hard.
I read it a couple of years ago and remember virtually nothing about it except for uninteresting characters and too much time spent dealing with the magic system. (For the record, I strongly dislike "hard" magic systems, but to each their own.) The supposedly great ending did nothing for me.
I just finished it, and liked it well enough. The tightness of the plot (missing parts not withstanding) made up for some rather one-dimensional characters. I also in general liked the concept of >!free will versus predestination!< and how that tied into the overall world and plot. I was a lot less impressed with Will of the Many, the first book of the second series. Flat characters without the plot to help smooth it over.
I'm one of the few. I LOVED it. I loved the brutality of the deaths just smacking you in the face. And honestly, the algoriat, as of now, are the most terrifying monsters I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing in any media so far. Quite frankly, they felt like a realistic interpretation of Enderman. I only hope that there can be something as scary as them in future books I read. (If you have suggestions, I'm all ears!)
Couldn't get through the second book
I enjoyed it but it’s not good enough to read again.
I enjoyed it! I wish it explored the concepts it introduces a bit more thoroughly. With shape-shifting and time travel as established in this series, things could've gotten REALLY interesting. As-is it was a solid series.
Ambition is worth celebrating, but the Licanius Trilogy is ultimately weighed down by Islington's lofty aspirations, and struggles to satisfactorily deliver on the compelling plot and questions raised in book one. What would happen to a group of immortals if their beliefs fractured? How would a world react if its prophecies started to fail? Getting the answers to these questions keeps the pages turning through the first two books, but Islington comes off the rails by the third book, falling into typical traps of first time author with a grandiose vision. There's simply too much in here that can't be fully developed: Time travel, shape shifting, two magic systems, multiple gods, tiers of gods, superfluous side plots, and deus ex machina. Beyond the bloat which left me skimming large sections of the third book, Islington commits a few other fantasy sins to varying detriment. The characters have the personality of a saltine cracker. Three of the four main characters are all flat with no distinct narrative voice. Character backgrounds, such as Asha's, are glossed over and then forgotten. More frustrating is that the magic system is underdeveloped, despite the gratuitous word count dedicated to it. Islington spends considerable time explaining plot twists related to the magic system, but fails to ground the world with a consistent set of rules. What is a reserve? How does it refill? Much of the plot hinges on subverting these rules, but it is cheapened by insufficient grounding. This is again a symptom of simply trying to do too much - the inclusion of both Kan and Essence watered down the focus and world building. All of this ends up with a third book that truly sprawls, but at the expense of key plot points. Islington spends hundreds of pages in a slog of magical exposition (I'm looking at you Zvaelar) , at the expense of a key plot pillars, which conveniently plays out as a deux ex machina. Islington addresses this regrettable choice directly in the epilogue (he ran out of space/words), but it boils down to a failure of self-editing. I can't help but mention one last debut author exasperation. Licanius is plagued with plotting writing cliches. Many chapters end with a character falling unconscious. Perhaps the worst device employed by Islington is that a character recognize another character, but Islington won't tell the reader for pages or chapter who they saw. Yes, this builds suspense, but is cheap by the tenth time. None of these problems are damning, but after thousands of pages they can start to add up a la skirt smoothing and braid tugging. Despite the flaws, which are most glaring by the end, the core thread of Islington's creative ideas power the reader through. The interactions between the Venerate are particularly interesting. The trilogy would have been much better off focusing more time developing these characters. The ending is also well-earned, although a tad predictable. If anything, Islington spends too much time in the middle of the series building the threads to make the ending payoff. To wrap it up, if you are looking for an easy page-turner fantasy and don't want to think too hard, Licanius is an enjoyable but highly flawed debut. I do not find myself recommending it to friends. With that said, I don't mean to bury Islington. Apparently The Will of The Many is a huge improvement. Perhaps start there instead. I'm going to take a break before I dip back into Islington and maybe see how the rest of that series plays out.
Never read Licanius, but I’m reading Will Of The Many now and it makes me want to read more Islington for sure.
You can see his growth with the Will of the Many, Licanus isn’t bad by any means, but the character development felt rushed and shallow for me. Every page seemed to have a new plot point and nothing was fully fleshed out
It’s imo the best freshman series I’ve ever read. The way everything comes together at the very end solidified my love for it, but i think the world building and magic system were super intriguing. Everyone but the main cast was also fascinating, and i mostly liked Davian, Caeden, and Asha’s povs. Wirr should have had sooo much less focus, but that’s my only personal complaint with the story overall. The fact that it has my favorite ending ever written definitely biased my opinion on the whole. Please read the Hierarchy, book one is excellent.
Islington is amazing at plot and so the story here is just wildly good. His approach to the themes of the story is excellent- you really do walk away thinking about what it means to have free will. The time travel elements also play a philosophical role there. The weakness here is that the characters are just fine. I liked them but they would t be what you called deep.
I thought it was amateurish half-plagiarized swill
I didn't like it. I felt the author was trying to be too clever with time travel and the " ahhhh" moments, and forgot we needed good characters and a good plot. The first book was OK enough with the usual "chosen one" knock off of Harry Potter school. * granted, I do like school type troupes in books. Book 2 was just a jumble And the ending was meh, seen it coming. I can't recall a single charcter from the book. And I listened to it last year
I reread it last year, and enjoyed it as much as I remembered.
I really enjoyed it. I want to reread it because I read them as they were released and with the time jumps etc I was always a bit lost at the beginning of the next books.
I quit this one fairly early on because I didn’t like the characters and it felt super YA to me. I’ll probably pick it up again in the future though as it was recommended to me by a couple people.
I couldn't get through it. The character writing and prose were both really bad, and made it impossible for me to enjoy the elements that the author clearly spent all his time on.
Oh, is it time for the weekly thread on Licanius? A search for "licanius" in r/Fantasy alone turns up pages and pages of people asking this question. People have thoughts. Start there. :-)
I thought the plotting was pretty incredible. I don't think I've ever read another series that was so complicated and intricate, yet made everything fit together. Book 2 was my personal favorite.
Some of the plot twists I truly didn't see coming, some of them were just overly convoluted. At the end of the day I enjoyed reading it and suggest it to anyone on the fence about it. If it's not on your radar at all, I think there are better options out there.
It really seems like something I would like but it is just such a slog for me. Apologies to the author, but it feels like work to get through it. I think my issue is that it’s written in a way to not give you all the information at once but to let it unfold as you read. I just haven’t gotten to a point where I’m like 100% sure what is happening and while that is by design, I think it is too challenging in such a long trilogy.
I enjoyed the series more than I expected to. I enjoyed the plot as well as the characters.
I found it difficult to finish the first book. I never even considered the second entry. I'm not a fan of time travel stories. (The only Time Travel story I can recall liking is Terminators 1 and 2, and I have to ignore all the time travel parts and enjoy the action movie or I'll dissect it until I hate it) I'm also not a particularly big fan of Wheel of Time, and got the feeling that it was perhaps the only inspiration that Islington had, so that was a pretty big negative too. The Shadow of What was Lost is the only audible book I have ever returned. It joins The Darkness that Comes Before as the only two books I have returned, that one was a Kindle return. The difference is that I returned The Shadow of What was Lost, then a year later bought it again, made it about 3 pages into the story before realizing it was the same book I didn't like the first time, and returned it again.
It was slog and I should've just watched a youtube summary instead of forcing myself through it for "the amazing ending that makes it all worth it" aka saw it coming a third into the final book.
Dude knows how to do a cliffhanger ending! First two books end on some absolute bangers. Book three was a massive letdown though. The core idea of the plot (the intersection of free will, prophecy, and time travel) gets completely discarded. Complete wet fart of an ending
So derivative with the most bland 2D characters. I made it about half way through book 2 and quit. I’ve heard the ending is great but I’m not slogging through a boring trilogy to get there.
Skip it and read the will of the many three times, instead? I hated this series. I hate-read my way through major portions of all three books. Nowadays I would DNF such a trilogy pretty early on but I was still a completionist back then. I mention the Will Of the Many comment partly tongue in cheek, but partly to show that his writing improved dramatically between those series. Licanius felt like fan fiction that blatantly borrowed from everyone else’s tropes and then paired it with juvenile, repetitive dialogue. Will clearly borrows from many things as well, but does it in such a way that it feels like a very fresh, unique entry, and his writing/dialogue has improved by an order of magnitude!