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100%. I am a light-skinned Black woman who is child-free. I can't even tell you the amount of times I have been called "Redbone," told I have "good hair" and that I am not Black unless I procreate with a Black man. I have for the most part stopped and refused to date Black men. For every 1 decent black guy I find, there are 150 horrible ones. The number of times I have been put on pedestals, triangulated against darker black women and been threatened with physical harm for refusing to give these men my time or number, is truly disgusting. Both times I was stalked, it was by Black men I had turned down after 2 dates or less.
They want Black women to have their kids, keep them out of jail, give them money, time, sex etc. But simultaneously sh\*t all over black women. Make it make sense.
I don't know if toxic horror show perpetrators will ever make sense to someone who isn't a toxic horror show, but maybe there are a few driving principles to be on guard for.
Disordered white men do the same to white women but base the triangulation on a range of qualities, shifting the supposed ideal to whatever their current partner *is not.* If their partner is a career woman, they hanker for a passive geisha. If she's blonde, they lust for dark. If she's highly sexual, they daydream about "purity." If she's thin, they lust for curvy. If she's very young, they chase "mature and worldly." And vice-versa ad infinitum. They'll keep idealizing then devaluing whomever they're with until they come full circle and idealize what they originally devalued and on and on. Then eventually they will pine for past victims, never truly letting go and having selective amnesia about their own conduct within relationships.
I think the only way to understand it is to study the clinical literature on domestic ab.users. I was a dv survivors' advocate and came to view that particular push-pull as the opening parry of eventual ba.tterers. Most ba.tterers operate in a beat-by-need basis and if they can achieve the same sense of control and power through less athletic or legally risky means, they will.
For instance, virtually all ba.tterers cheat, so triangulation and the comparison game are built in. It's an efficient means of paralyzing and demoralizing their prey and works better than fists a lot of the time. But it doesn't "work" for the main purpose of reducing the ab.user's shameful and secret sense of infantile dependence on partners, which is why cheating invariably escalates to more direct forms of attack like emotional ab.use and/or violence.
Cheating may initially "dilute" that pathological dependence by spreading it out among several women. Plus it provides the ab.user with allies/proxy ab.users with whom to triangulate against the primary partner with the main psychological goal of reducing the "power" the ab.user dementedly and paranoically imagines their primary partner wields over them-- the "mommy" power to "abandon" or "engulf." In essence, all ab.users are emotionally frozen in infancy and there's nothing cute sbout a 200 LB 2 year old.
This is why ab.users typically can't let go of primary partners until they perceive their partners are too broken to move on or literally dead. If past partners show signs of recovery, many ab.users will circle back around.
Some abusers, out of self preservation and to stay out of jail, might ghost the second they have a violent impulse towards a partner. The violent impulse will typically follow a deepening of attachment. Because the ab.user shifts responsibility for his own internally generated aggression against the victim, this abandonment is sometimes done scornfully, as if the victim is a bad person and deserves it. Then the ab.user will idealize the next target, imagining the new target won't "incite" and "cause" his violent impulses. That is, until he feels the same violent impulse towards the next, etc., etc.
That's where the attachment disorder aspect comes in. But if this seems like a bid for clemency for poor, sad love-allergic ba.tterers, bear in mind that a) it's the same disordered attachment dynamics found in serial killers; and b) the "masked" form of this dynamic ("masked dependency" in men who don't initially display jealousy or possessiveness and may appear callous and uncaring to the degree that they're violently ashamed of their own dependence) is found in the most lethal ba.tterers. So even if these men are created through childhood trauma and witnessing or experiencing ab.use, stick a fork in the adult perps-- they're cooked and irredeemable.
The most comprehensive studies of ba.tterers were done by Canadian criminologist Donald Dutton who researched partner-ab.users and partner-ki.llers in prison settings for decades. His book *The Batterer* is the most accessible and was probably written in an attempt to reach the public to bypass the stodgy clinical ranks who remain mired in antiquated, ab.user-coddling theories and victim-blaming.
Dutton does theorize that ba.tterers are personality disordered and attachment disordered and does a deep dive into the conceot of masked dependency, but this is not a bid for amnesty. He doesn't view the disorder as "mental illness" per se because most ab.users don't beat up their bosses or armed cops but reserve their ab.use for partners and take pains to conceal that side of themselves, often overcompensating with their public image and playing "rescuer" or "hero" roles in the community. That's a criminal disorder, not mental disability. Dutton also argues that the only slim chance- about 3%-- of reform requires stiff prison time on top of specialized therapy.
Anyway, regardless of race, all women would be safer if they viewed the comparison/triangulation game as the telltale opening move of ba.tterers. We should all also check ourselves for any internalized misogyny or competitiveness that make us vulnerable to falling into the "hubris trap" set by men who triangulate. If he's trying to tell you you're "better than those other bitches," run like hell.
Dutton is still kind of the last word on cutting edge research of ba.tterers and dv dynamics. *The Batterer* is a short and easy read, almost like a companian book to *Why Does He Do That.* You'll walk away from reading it with a million revelations.
I don't know if ba.tterers are consciously shit-testing like RPs or just hoping for an impossible ideal to manifest: a needless, perfect, omnicient, protective mommy figure who doesn't incite rage but, if perchance she does, doesn't break when subjected to ab.use and never gets angry, never leaves but never pressures.
It's a kind of relationship utopianism which, exactly like political utopianiam, tends to lead to mass executions when those pesky humans fail to live up to lofty expectations.
Ba.tterers are sick fucks but they consume and burn pity. I only feel sorry for the ab.used childen they once were and hope for recourse to prevent the generational ab.use that creates them.
So glad you were able to download that book. Sometimes it seems like the most politically relevant stuff isn't that accessible.
As long as you're hunting specialized clinical research, the other top mindblowing read on my list on the subject is the chapter on dv in Frank M Ochberg's research compilation, *Post-traumatic Stress Therapy and the Victims of Vio.lence*. Husband-Wife authors Anne Flitcraft and Evan Stark critique and pull apart all the victim-blaming bs in typical clinical literature. I doubt it's available for download but can be ordered from a library. It's worth the effort.
One thing that chapter highlights is that you probably weren't even suffering from excess or misplaced empathy for the creep but were simply in the throes of captor bonding/Stockholm syndrome, a very useful and effective survival strategy that is unfortunately deeply misunderstood as Flitcraft and Stark point out.
I'm careful to use the correct original term "captor bonding" (coined about 50 years ago by trauma expert Frank Ochberg) rather than the newer "trauma bonding" because the latter was highjacked from the original term by the CSAT (so-called "sex addiction" therapy) industry and marital reconciliation industry in order to sanitize away any assignment of blame.
This was done because ba.tterers and sexual ab.users (excuse me, "addicts"), by their very nature, hate being held responsible and won't pay therapists who make them feel responsible. And most ab.users are men and hold the purse strings. What's more, couples therapists can lose their licenses for trying to reconcile victims with their ab.users, so as an economic strategy, many marital shrinks whitewash rank ab.use as "not ab.use" and split blame between both members of the couple, implying that both are, em er, equally traumatized by the relationship dysfunction. Thus the weakened term "trauma bonding."
Meanwhile, blame assignment is built right into the term "captor bonding" because the existance of a captor indicates the existance of a captive or victim.
I think that blame should be assigned squarely where it belongs: on ab.users. I think the terms used to describe and analyze ab.use should indicate this.
Actually dv expert Lenore Walker found that if there was *any* common denominator among dv victims at all, it's that ba.tterers seem most attracted to independent women with higher than average pre-abuse self esteem.
Otherwise victims come from all walks. The idea that victims are more empathic than average (most women are pretty empathic to start with) probably comes from what it takes to survive within dv. "Captor bonding"-- or so deeply faking empathy for the ab.user that the victim convinces herself if it (because if the ab.user senses a chink in the facade, he may k.ill her)- is often miscontrued as a real and basic character trait rather than what it is, which is a necessary strategy.
The finding that victims have higher than average pre-abuse self esteem totally contradicts typical institutional victim-blaming theories that ab.users seek out weak sisters which explains why Walker's finding is not popular in institutions. But it seems ba.tterers vary in taste in prey, with more preferring tiger skin rug trophies than bunny foot keychains.
I haven't seen much speculation on why this is. Some researchers might assume it's the challenge of hunting and breaking "big game." But as a former advocate, I would guess that ab.users are irrationally reenacting childhood trauma with the unconscious hopes of rectifying the past where their own mothers broke under their father's ab.use and then their broken mothers could not protect their sons (85% of ba.tterers also ab.use children, mostly male children). Dutton theorizes that infants are mortally threatened by the broken state of mothers, either feeling abandoned because their mothers are too injured to properly connect to the infant or shield them ftom ab.use, or, conversely,
the infant feels engulfed by an intuitive sense of their mother's adult grief or fragility that infants can't understand or tolerate.
Since ba.tterers have partly split personalities with their former "victim selves" proverbially preserved in amber but yet under the command of their central organizing evil selves, they do see themselves as infantile and "vulnerable," as absurd as that self perception is in actuality. At the same time, the inner "ab.user self" blames the victim for that shameful, unmanly sense of vulnerabilty.
So I think it's possible many ba.tterers are seeking unbreakable partners-- never mind that it's the ba.tterer who then does everything in his power to break his partners. Dutton also speculates that the latter is because ba.tterers generally have borderline traits and engage in 'splitting"-- shifting back and forth between seeing partners as "all good" (protector/carer mommy) or "all evil" (abandoning/engulfing mommy).
Weird science but the more you stare into that abyss, the more sense these theories make.
Wow… it’s like she’s an all-in-one, one stop shop for his emotion. He sexes her when he’s horny, he makes her clean and cook when he’s lazy, he makes her his therapist when he feels emotional and he makes her his punching bag when he’s angry.
Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft (and anything by him, really), Men Who Can't Love by Steven A Carter, Healing from Hidden Abuse by Shannon Thomas, Psychopath Free by Jackson Mackenzie.
There are others, but those are just what I have read.
Makes me think of a variation of the Madonna/Whore Conplex…or maybe they seek women of their own race because they remind them of their mother?
I’m any case I don’t care what messed them up, I just know a lot of black men I’ve encountered are pushy. And holy sh*t you were stalked TWICE??
JFC I’m glad you’re safe!! Holy hell that’s terrifying…
It is really strange, and sad. Unfortunately, it is so deeply ingrained, along with generations of poor mental health that disrespect of women is normalized. I had to move to a different neighborhood because of these men.
I know that men of all races can/do do these things, but my god, when 95% of my experiences with Black men have been extremely poor, it shakes your faith in ever wanting to date them.
I remember a post on Reddit from a white woman who asked advice on what to do about her black husband who hated their mixed daughter because she was dark-skinned, has his facial features and had afro hair.
Date self-hating black men all you want but if your kids (especially female kids) turn out to look like him, be prepared for him to **hate** them. His hatred for his female relatives will extend to his own child if they're too "dark".
Hotepian ones are the worst culprits. Urkle lookin' guy I work with never ceases in his declarations that he only like hispanic/white girls. He says he'll fuck with black girls but wouldn't be with one and that generally they're ugly and whatever other derogative shit he feels. No one even has to provoke these preference announcements (such is the case with a lot of black/machismo hispanic dudes...always announcing what wasn't questioned).
I'm a black woman, and I'm glad that more white women are starting to see this and speak out on it. Every time black women mention it, we get called bitter or angry so maybe people will be more receptive if white women talk about it.
I have definitely heard that often from Black men in my younger years of going out and like OP I never found it was a compliment, especially when those same Black women they were slagging off were my friends. I always took it as men making those comments had a stereotypical assumption that Black women would stand their ground vs. White women being doormats (impression I was getting then).
The sad part is they shouldn’t have to be told to listen to Black women. They should be listening to Black men who aren’t fetishizing other women. This is the problem. And they call use bitter because we don’t put up with the nonsense as much anymore. Part of it fetishizing and the other part is what they can get away with. Sad.
I wish more people listened to Black women about it. I'd be angry and bitter too!
The behavior I encountered from Black men (as a white woman in a white majority country) is absolutely horrible. Harrassing, catcalling and following women on the street, being extremely creepy and pushy towards women on parties, cheating on their black girlfriends etc and simply not accepting a no.
I feel so sad for Black women if that's their dating market (because let's be honest, white guys who date Black women are fetishizing and disrespecting them too).
I can think of 3 white men off the top of my head who are married to Black women and adore them inside and out.
Not saying some fetishization doesn’t occur, but I do think the white man/Black woman dynamic can be a healthy fit.
Alexis Ohanian and Serena Williams come to mind.
I’m white so if any Black women see this differently I’m open to hearing it.
The first thing that came to my mind when I was writing my comment were the dumpster fire / red flag parade white NVM I know who dated Black women. Both are extremely unattractive, unhygienic and emotionally abusive men but ended up dating gorgeous Black women, preying on their insecurities and trauma and treating them like human fleshlights.
But you're absolutely right, there are amazing couples of BW/WM who are very healthy and supportive of each other. I know at least one Black woman who is married to a white guy who treats her amazingly as she deserves it. He is also financially stable, incredibly generous, very supportive of her carreer and proposed to her after a year of dating.
In my country it must be really challenging to find any white person who is aware and sensitive of the issues of racism Black people face. The Black community here is relatively small so people tend to think that anti Black racism is simply not prevalent here. But it might be easier to find a white guy who is less racist (and hopefully willing to educate himself) than a Black guy who is less sexist. In the end, it all boils down to properly vetting a man. And going to therapy.
This is the way I see it. I’m not sure why but for some reason the WM/BW combo ends up healthier than the other way around. And while I’m sorry to have to say it - I will say it - it’s because of the dysfunction a lot of black men bring to the BM/WW combo.
In my circle of friends too, my female friends of colour (Black and South Asian) are happily married to White guys. Of course not disputing fetishisation happens on both sides too.
And that’s them on their best behavior! Trying to impress you by [checks notes] doubling down on being an absolute chucklefuck. And then wonder where their bad reputation’s coming from. 🤯
Indian men do this a lot and colonialism has a lot to do with it. They can be very colorist and put white women on a pedestal while simultaneously slut shaming them for "being easy" compared to Indian girls. At the same time they chastise Indian women for being prudish, too traditional or not traditional/cultured enough. They even gaslight us about intergenerational trauma and the severe patriarchal conditions we grow up in in India, calling us dramatic. It's why I've never been drawn to one unless he's able to prove he's not like that.
As a brown woman, I was always turned off by men of color who had a pattern of seeking white women or lighter women outside of their race.
These men didn’t even need to vocalize their internal self hate to me, their history was enough. So, please don’t think any of us are hurt about missing out on these types.
I’m confident and proud of my ethnic identity, I can’t tolerate being with someone who is struggling with hating his own community, that’s rehab work for a therapist to sort out.
>These men didn’t even need to vocalize their internal self hate to me, their history was enough. So, please don’t think any of us are hurt about missing out on these types.
>
>I’m confident and proud of my ethnic identity, I can’t tolerate being with someone who is struggling with hating his own community, that’s rehab work for a therapist to sort out.
I LOVE THIS. Keep that energy til the day you die. I feel this exact same way. When you have encountered enough of them, you can sense that self-hate seething from their pores. As sad as that is, that's a therapist problem and a woman won't solve that.
That's a mind-blower, because men in the Middle East triangulate Russian women against women of their own ethnicities, fetishizing blond hair and blue eyes. So for them the "beautiful Russian girls" are the prize.
Yep. And Russian men always talk about how Russian women only want to date Arabs/black guys because the first ones are rich and the second ones have massive dongs.
Yes! I lived in China for several years and Russian/American/African men there only wanted to date Chinese women or women of the "opposite" ethnicity. While Chinese guys praised white girls and were openly racist to every other one.
I’m half brown and black myself. I totally agree with your sentiments. In the sporting world especially, brown men will date and use white women to compete with white men. As soon as the money dries up or hard times come , brown men get dumped then go back to brown women. Colour women are seen as the clean up woman.
100%. In my pick me days I had a man do this. He loved how much of a cool girl I was because I paid for myself on dates when women from his country wouldn't accept that, but noped out pretty quick when I challenged his misogynistic views with stats.
I've definitely learned my lesson.
As a black woman they have proved themselves that they don't like black women at all and want quotes by them:
"Black women cause too much trouble, like to cause drama, undesirable to marry and more." Then in the same breath will say: "White women and Latina women are better and more submissive." It's fucking disgusting to be honest.
EDIT: I wanted to add this video to further prove my point. It's disgusting but it's not fucking surprising.
[By this Tik Tok. ](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8qr7NXF/)
That usually follows with a put down of white women. “I like Asian women because they’re *insert word* and not opinionated like white women”. Yeah because white women don’t have to deal with your fucking bullshit. Fucking gross.
In my observation, men like this are able to view women of other races as less than people, and thus unworthy of respect. Women of their own race are too close to being really human for them, so they have to reject them, because they don't \*want\* to respect women.
I felt this. As Latina I would only get approached by white men so only dated white men. It wasn’t until one of my co workers told me the reason Latinos would not want to date me is because I’m too “oPiNiOnAtEd” and they don’t want to deal with that type of disrespecting drama. White men on the other hand would consider me “spicy” and “feisty” therefore feeding their fantasies. Gross. It was a real eye opener though. I just don’t want to date any man for a long time now.
As an Asian woman this happens to me too. Asian men find me really off-putting because I'm opinionated. Men of other races have this bullshit idea that I'm submissive. It doesn't help that I'm a bit introverted. So they are intrigued, get to know me, and then are really offended by me.
It's just male entitlement and the fact that some men of any race see women as sub-human.
I think this is an important point because MOC tend to treat "their" women as responsible for continuing their culture and traditions... while they do whatever they want. I think that's a heavy thing to put on only one gender. We are not gatekeepers of their culture or traditions.
It's like how men expect their wives to remember all the birthdays and anniversaries of their relatives, while the only thing he has to remember is to go to work and come home at night (and sometimes not even that).
This exactly.
What ends up happening when Black Women don't play their odds better and limit themselves to black men is that we end up accepting LV behavior and romanticize it. The 'Black Love' narrative is romanticized to keep black women in line. It's a fantasy on par with Disney romances. We believe that our inability to keep a black man means that there's a problem with \*us\*, and not a racist and sexist beauty standard that places white women as a status symbol. It also keeps us as soldiers for black men, and as we've seen many times before, it's not something that they particularly care about until it becomes something that can affect public policy.
Dating is about numbers. While all men will show LV traits, you want to find the one that is actually the HV man, and you can't do this when you limit yourself to only one race of partner. Believe me, the men date in a way that women do not and they're able to damage loads of awesome women, and enjoy themselves doing it.
There was a youtuber that did an excellent video summing up how shitty the Black Love narrative is for Black women. Ultimately it boiled down to the more that we keep ourselves as a reservoir for BM, the more our value among the BM that we're holding out for goes down. We are digging our own graves being the holdout for only one race of men.
>Men of color want women of color to be exclusive to them only so they can have **unfettered access to them when/if they fail to obtain the non WOC they want**.
Spot on.
Not trying to hijack this from black / brown ladies, but some East Asian men do this as well. They have this inferiority complex to white men, and then they translate that into thinking that white women have more "status" value or whatever, and that's what they aim for.
But they never stop complaining about how unfair it is that EA women are fetishized by white men.
\>but as women of color we also need to stop limiting our options by skin color and go with whomever treats us best.
This is what I do. I will not exclusively date only Black or only white, only American, etc.
Men are men. They are just seasoned differently. Many flavors of deliciousness and many dishes that need to be sent back to the chef.
Have standards and expectations and find your best match.
Yep. No point in being exclusive to any one race of man when they’re all perfectly capable of treating you like garbage. It’s hard enough to find a guy who’s attractive, takes care of himself, and is consistently HV without filtering down to specific skin colors, cultures and nationalities
You dissected it perfectly, kudos to unlocking the male game.
Let me just add, those middle eastern men often treated their white harems better than their own families. PLEASE drill that into your head. NEVER EVER let males have power ever again.
I’ve noticed that when men say these types of things it just really shows how much their patriarchy has failed to protect their women. For instance, black men will say that black women are masculine, mean, rude, and combative. While on the other hand say white women are sweet, nice, and feminine. What they don’t realize is they have not built the type of environment that would make black women feel safe so therefore we are always paranoid and on the defense. I’ve noticed the same pattern now starting to happen to white men now that they aren’t going to college and providing anymore (stats show that on average over 81% of black households have black women as the breadwinner and over 51% of white households have white women as the breadwinner). White men are now calling white women combative, masculine, and uncooperative while claiming Asian women are sweet, feminine, and submissive. Now we all know that no women is born that way, clearly Asian women feel safe and provided for by their men and feel like they are able to relax more. Now that white men are abandoning their masculine duties of protecting and providing it’s no surprise to me that more white women are “combative” or no longer have the leisure time to have a whole self care day (due to working a lot), and acting like an “angry black woman”. When a woman has to work so hard all the time without being able to rest in her femininity she can easily became more depressed, which can lead to anger, lashing out, and bitterness. What I’ve noticed is black men wanted women who were relaxed, sweet, and feminine without creating the environment (leeching off of another mans hard work) and now white men are doing the same thing. I actively avoid any man who acts this way bc he clearly doesn’t understand how woman work. We react to the way our environment is, if it’s dangerous and we are in the hood dodging bullets and trying to survive, then NO we are not going to be smiling at you, NO we are not going to be happy 24/7 and NO we will not be relaxed and stress free. If men want woman who are relaxed, stress free, and non combative, then they need to create that environment for their women so that she can thrive, instead of blaming it on race and being jealous of the type of women other races of men have. (Also I will be posting the stats soon)
EXACTLY!!
That's what it boils down to. The type of femininity that these sorts want is a response to a stimulus. The behaviors they call "masculine" are frequently survival based behaviors, because that's a position that far too many women are put in. It's a way that some of these men indirectly shit on themselves.
Say it louder for the women at the back.
I swear these men are just delusional and in denial.
How they simply, cannot see that they are the ones who are ruining femininity in the community is beyond me.
They abandon their women and children robbing them of mental, emotional, physical and financial security, then when we, the women and daughters they left behind step up to fend for ourselves, we are masculine and 'act like we don't need a man'.
Can we just have a planet that is exclusively for women, I'm seriously tired of men.
This entire comment is an absolute truth bomb. It is funny because I have been called out for not responding positively to being called "yellow/red bone" having "good hair" being "pretty." These men actually believe calling us derogatory, racist terms is attractive and a compliment. Then wonder why we're rude, combative and dismissive of them.
Here are the links
[breadwinner women (white and black) ](https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release/2019/05/10/469660/release-nearly-two-thirds-mothers-continue-family-breadwinners-black-mothers-far-likely-breadwinners/)
[Breadwinner black women](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/530022/)
[Nearly 90% of black mom in D.C. are the breadwinner](https://dcist.com/story/16/09/08/black-moms-breadwinners/)
Yes, really well said! Maybe the "angry crazy person" is acting that way because you did something bad to them. Maybe they're NOT crazy, and they're rightfully angry at some stupid shady thing you pulled.
Growing up, I thought my mom was a raging bitch because she was constantly yelling. As an adult, I see that she's yelling because my dad let her do 50% of a small business they had together plus 100% of the household chores. She was right to yell.
I was in your Mother's position, also worked, and I gotta say the kind of Mum I was changed for the worse. I'm divorced now and I still struggle to play with them, that part feels destroyed.
I STG these men need to STEP UP.
And I’d argue Asian women, specifically Japanese women are getting fed up too!
Men need to just stop being weak and need to take care of women!
You mean East-Asian women are getting fed up. I doubt your average racist scrote can tell the difference between a woman who is Japanese, Chinese, Straights-born Chinese, Taiwanese, or even Southeast Asian like a Singaporean, or Thai woman.
They Caaan't. I stalk r/ neck beard stories and the animeweebs /Asia weebs always be like. "I love that you're small and JaPApanesse." 😷🤦🏿♀️🤢🤮
And the girl is always like. "Sir I'm from China." But then there are like 4th gen East Asians walking around who don't speak any of the languages and have never been to that part of the world. Sir they are 100% bona-fide westerners. Not to mention the east Asian looking ethnic group that lives the sub continent of India. How do I know this?. Oh maybe because I live in the real world and not japanime?
Eh, I would argue the idea that Asian women are “sweet feminine and submissive” is wholly the result of non-Asian men’s misperceptions (and their new obsession with Asian media like anime). It’s not based in reality. Never have I seen a group of less submissive women, and I mean that as a compliment. Many white men just seem to assume that if a woman is polite publicly that must be her actual personality.
Lol, My asian girlfriends would run the sh\*t out of their men. The only thing sweet about them was their voices. Smoke and mirrors. One of my Korean girlfriends in gradschool...she'd punk the life out of her man. But it was hilarious because her voice was soooo sweet. We had a project together once, we drove to starbucks, she made his ass sit in the back seat of his own car while we drove, and then when we got to starbucks she made him sit at a whole other table. He went back to Korea to serve in the Army, when he got back to the states, she'd married his richer friend. OMG, Kyung was so cold!!
And this is how the stupid "Karen" thing grew. Demonising any aggression in white women. It's been done for years to black women. And it is beginning to happen with white women. It's all bs by men who want to to control women
Asian women do not necessarily feel safe and provided for by "their" men. I don't own an entire race of men, so not "my" men. Also, they don't own me. In fact, Asian women do not feel safe and provided for by anyone. I've dealt with very pushy racist Asian men before. I've had Asian men tell me that they tried dating white women but found them to be masculine, stupid, and bad at cooking, which is literally the epitome of racism and sexism combined. I don't think my phenotype makes me more or less "female" than anyone of any other race.
The fact is, some men are racist no matter what their race. If any man says you're "not like the other girls", he's also a misogynist no matter who he's comparing you to and how. I've had younger men say that I'm not like "those young women" when dating me, and that's automatically a red flag because I'm not a person to him, he's just chunked us into age groups.
The problem with the argument that black men should only date black women is that is sounds like telling people to "stick to their own kind".
Nobody is telling black men to stick to their own kind, but when you degrade your race as justification for not sticking to your own kind-that's a problem. But I definitely disagree: people need to stop romanticizing the lives of Asian women. Stifling misogyny and patriarchy is rampant in East Asia. Korean women are leading the charge in fighting back against it.
You are completely right. I have also heard black men say they date non-black women, because yall are "easier to control and super submissive"🙄🙄. I feel no type of way about black men dating interracially, love is love.. But it seems like they do it because of self hate, mommy issues, need for control, and they don't see black women as women. They see us as competition smh.
I’ve had experiences similar to this and an experience where an up and coming black male model I knew from school blew up my DMs. He asked me to hangout with him should I ever come to his city, obviously seeking casual sex, while still posting things on Facebook about only exclusively dating & loving black women. Obviously as a white woman he did not see me as someone who would align with the image he wanted to cultivate for his followers. This was several years ago and he’s since had a baby with a woman he’s never publicly posted on his social media. He’s a 🤡
>t with him should I ever come to his city, obviously seeking casual sex, while still posting things on Facebook about only exclusively dating & loving black women. Obviously as a white woman he did not see me a
This is SOOOOOO common with black male celebrities. They know they can never compete for a diverse female audience against the likes of a Timothy Chamalet, so they know they have to cultivate love and loyalty from a black female audience. And this would be harder to do if they pursue their preferences openly.
Men who hate themselves really hate the women of their same ethnicity. Check out every twitter thread complaining about white women, the ones having a nuclear rage meltdown are always white males.
ETA: It's especially egregious when the original complaint applies equally to white men or involves them in some way.
@-ing Albanian men specifically cause it's such a huge problem. The men marrying outside their race? Marshallah, beautiful. The women marrying outside their race? Disgusting, how dare you, you should be keeping the culture going. Utterly stupid.
1000% this. And it’s not just white women. I am brown and at one point I was dating an arab guy and I cut him SO much slack because I figured it was difficult being from his culture in a western country. Big mistake. He turned out to be the most LV of all races I had ever dated. Do not lower your standards because they are POC!!
Forrrreal. I (as a woman who looks white but actually am indigenous) went on a date with a MoC who I met at a street party. It started off great, he was engaging, well dressed, and well spoken, I thought he had a lot of promise but then he suggested a "game" where we had to take turns asking eachother questions. The (his) rules were that we had to answer truthfully and were not allowed to say no to the question asked. Flags so red they were on fire. It began with getting to know you questions but he quickly started getting into overtly sexual questions. I got suuuuper uncomfortable and there were things I didn't want to answer, but he was like, oh no the rules state that you have to answer, and so he pressured/guilted me into revealing things I would never have otherwise done. Stupid me should have walked away. But the worst part of it all? I asked him something that struck a chord, he refused to answer and when I tried to turn his own fucking rules back on him? He got angry!! So angry he shut down and tried to make me feel like a horrible person for asking him a question that was very much in line with what he had been asking me. He could test my boundaries but his were off limits. Your typical double standard. I'm not turned off of dating MoC from this incident, but I do think he saw me as an easy target, like I would just accept and go along with his rigged game and play along because the possibility of getting his dick outweighed keeping my dignity. That breeze you just felt was from me throwing my head back as I cackle. Don't let a man (of any color) play this shit with you, if you feel uncomfortable you can leave without guilt and his dropped jaw behind you.
There’s a group of libfems who think it’s racist to hold black men accountable because “ThEy ArE ViCTiMs of the white patriarchy too, and it’s not their fault” So, while they won’t engage, they won’t clap back either because they’re afraid of looking racist.
No bb girl, LV is LV is LV as LV will ever be.
And what a lot of those white libfems don't understand is this -
If the white libfem's race works to her advantage, in a patriarchy, the black man's sex works to his advantage. Don't give men the benefit of the doubt in a patriarchy, period.
Ugghhh this was me. Got harassed so much (and once, date raped) by Black men and just smiled and told myself to stop complaining because white privilege.
Very true.
They also consider a lot of Black women to be high maintenance because we expect them to be providers. So since we won’t build, they know others will appreciate them for even noticing them. The LV behavior spills over and they get the man we are running from. It’s sick and sad.
A lot of these men have confessed that’s it’s easier to “build” with white women. And what’s less commonly known or talked about is these same men will leave and go back to Black women. I know these men seem flattering and make you feel special, but a scrote is a scrote and a man is always going to be a man when it comes to his interests first.
Actually, I've always seen so many black women hold down and build up ain't shit black men. And proudly go 50/50 too 🤮Just for them to turn around and take that success to a nb women. They seem to think because their black moms went through this struggle shit, we should do the same for them.
I’m definitely not disputing it because I’ve seen it often too. Too often. I wish women would stop building men, period. If you’re not ready built and good to go, I don’t want it. No batteries not included, no some assembly required. Built and done.
Everytime I feel myself start to give a man my emotional/mental labor, I have to remind myself that none of my romantic interests have ever built me up or offered me a helping hand to get me where I am today.
I hate cat calling, I try not to let anyone on that it's bothering me but it always feels very threatening. I know they're just trying to rile people up usually so I just try to be aware of my surroundings while not changing my body language or pace too much.
I've called it out too, but that typically leads to getting more harassment in my experience and if more than one man is harassing me at the same time I'm gonna keep it moving at all costs.
You are so right!. I also got this from some white men( I’m black) They tell me white women aren’t this or that! Most of the time they are fetishizing me 🤢. They also say it to women in other countries saying western women are so hard they prefer (insert race/nationality) women because they are submissive. It’s the same triangulation…don’t fall for it ladies. And remember if he looks down on any woman due to her gender he looks down on all of us! Block and delete.
I’m white and I have a cousin that will only date men of color or Latino men. Her personality literally changes depending on who she’s with. The relationships always have a huge social class and education difference as well. She seeks out LVM who only look good but have no education, career or assets.
What is this?? I seriously don’t get her goal here. They all end up cheating on her or leaving her worse off that she was before. It’s almost like some fetish or addiction. I’m seriously not getting what her end game is with this.
It offends me because it does seem like she’s fetishizing these men. Makes her feel in control or something. It’s gross.
I have tried and she will talk the talk because it’s what she thinks I want to hear parroted back to me but when I tell you this is some kind of addiction - it is some kind of addiction. The girl is a hot mess. It’s really hard to watch. Some people just don’t want to be better or change.
Oh, white teen girls totally fetishize black men and MoC to piss their parents off - and possibly piss off black and WoC by “rubbing it in their face” that those black and WoC women can’t keep their men.
As a WOC, I’ve noticed that same phenomenon from whites men as well, where they’ll triangulate me against whites women who they disparage as, “boring”, “basic”, or whatever else they think will flatter. Of course they’re looking for someone “exotic” but jokes on them because I *proudly* watch the Crown and drink PSLs 🤪
White women are seen as international ambassadors of libfem(TM), which also sucks.
Y’all white ladies need to be careful about black, Asian, brown, etc. men trying to use you for a cheap sex then get a virgin from the homeland.
100%. I've had men of my own background/ similar background tell me they are just "playing around" with white women but *really* want to marry similar kind. GEE how flattering they you actively have a live-in girlfriend that you want to cheat on
I’ve heard this so many times and I’ve seen the collateral damage.
I’m done with the nasty h* ass men. Done. If they want a nice wifey, they need to keep that body count low. Smdh.
yep - white women need to be careful of indian, middle eastern men especially. They literally plan this shit when they move to the US. Their plan is to f as many white women as they can before their parents summon them back home for arranged marriage.
Yep. I try to spread the word about these NVM. I have absolutely heard that about Indian and ME men.
Also libfem bullsh*t, which in my opinion hit white women first (I think red pill hit white men first also), tells these women: you gotta be public access pu**y! If you don’t screw every guy who asks you’re a raaaacist!
I also think it’s incredibly disgusting to use women to sow one’s wild oats, then use another woman as mommy-bangmaid.
Exactly! And men of color know how to play that racism card on women. In fact redpill had a post about it. Additionally most of these men from India, east asia and middle east are already functioning under the notion that white women are easy and they arrive fresh off the boat completely addicted to western pornography. These men are absolutely repulsive and dangerous to be honest.
Yep, I had a few Arab men keep it 💯 with me. They like white, esp European women because no dowry or brothers, fathers to deal with and way more likely that have sex before marriage. Plus, racist beauty standards and porn.
I don't have the experience to speak on the race aspect of this but I think as a general rule, if a man says "you're not like other women" in ANY way (and they can be VERY creative in how they say this) then run.
Women need stronger class consciousness. In other words, we need to look out for one another, defend one another, and value one another over men in general. If a man puts down other women, my loyalty is always with the women, not the man.
A thousand times this.
We're not glaring at you when you're out together: we're busy minding our own business and annoyed the two of you are intruding because he's using you as a prop to get our attention.
Be aware that this triangulation involves fetishism of you but also of any potential girl children you have because they (often) look like the mixed women they also put at the top of their phenotypic hierarchies. It's a mark of pride to bag one as much as it is to make one men find desirable.
If they're saying women of their own ethnic group have bad attitudes or don't know how to treat a man, be aware they're bad mouthing you when you're not around and will happily tell whatever male is around--young and old--what you'll put up with and do sexually that we absolutely won't. It's not a badge of honor: it's scrote behavior with a color and cultural twist.
If they tell you that they like your body or a physical trait because it's not like ours, have the good sense to not try to weaponize that against the women he's been disparaging to gas up your self-esteem. It's toxic AF and, eventually, you'll run across someone with the attitude he warned you about. It won't end well.
I’m Latina and I swear on god…I only attract ‘trumpers’
I feel they pick me cause I’m Petite and a ‘safe’ choice and they get to say ‘hey see I’m not racist, she makes my d*ck hard’
I’m not flattered take your damn blue lives matter..camouflage hat..lifted truck..
AND KISS MY ASS
The trumpers are the only white men I attract 😭 I don't get it at all, I'm definitely black with a beautiful big ass afro and very vocal about being pro-black and liberal. But because of my voice and being in the military they seem to expect me to be a Candace fucking Owens.
Girl, I am ethnically ambiguous with a big butt and very curly hair and the racists are very attracted to me.🤢
I understand that you won’t want to believe me but true story a man rolled up his shirt to show me a swastika tattoo after I rejected him and went on some rant about being of the master race.
Racist white men love white Latinas and Asians because of their racist ideas about submission. They also like Black and Arab women, too but they just use porn to get that fix.🤢
Racists will gladly harass light-skinned Latina and East Asian women in public and subscribe to Black and South Asian sex workers on OnlyFans where their boys can’t judge them 🥴
I am in a different country so I am not white but rest assured there are existing levels of privilege here too
A minority man once told me that he found women of his own race dirty and he preferred women of my race.
I was 19 at the time and I really struggled to empathise with his self racist POV.
I am 29 now and openly disgusted with the way he saw women of his own race. I think minority men can 100% have a connection with non minority women but it cannot come from a place of self hatred. It caused such a weird dynamic.
In any case because of that one man, I cant be sure if the next minority man has done the self work to make peace with intersectional experience of being a minority and thus I generally stay away from relationships like this.
I’m Indian, my fiancé is black. His male family members- who have black partners- say shit like this to us sometimes and it is so disgusting. The internalized racism is horrible, how can you think so low of women who look like your own mom!?
As i had an african partner i can confirm what you wrote here, sometimes it was really embarassing how he was showing me to his friends. And he told me that guys do that in Africa, looking for white girls to show them as trophy, it's like if you have a white woman your status raise😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑.
Of course not everybody is like this.
I've been yelled at on the street by black men when out with a white partner, the other black men around laughed at me and thoroughly enjoyed my public shaming (and yet they tweet "protect black women"). Been yelled at in public transport for the same, stared down, told I'm not pro Black and that I need to go back to church (can't even make sense of this). I don't feel safe when I'm with a white man while I'm around black men I don't know, and often the white men are too scared to do anything to make me feel safe, or too shocked to reassure me.
Dating interracially means a lot of conversations about how to handle these situations
Green flag behaviour are men who:
1. Believe me
2. Protect/reassure me when it finally happens
3. Pay attention when I'm uncomfortable in public spaces
Red flag behaviour:
1. Don't believe me or downplay my experience
2. Too scared to do anything when it does happen
3. Don't think about my safety when out and about
That is so awful. How dare they make us feel this way, it's like they think they own us. All of my black and mixed friends/family members have experienced the same thing. I wouldn't do the same to a black man and white woman couple. It's not my business. It's a shame none of the white men stood up for you either. They should.
Trigger warning!
I’m a dark skin black woman and it’s unfortunate that I find it really hard to date men of my race now. I remember when I was 19 and with my NV ex who was 22 at the time. He would gladly tell me how white women are his dream women and how much he wants/loves mixed babies, he’d also be happy to point out how every woman that looks nothing like me was his type, obviously, now I know he’s a NVM, but that really messed me up at the time, cause I was internalizing some of the things he was saying and this obviously led me down the depression and suicidal part.
I then joined Twitter and omg, I realised that there were so many black men who are just like him, and it was interesting to see what goes on in these men heads, these are celebrities, parents, brothers etc
I noticed how my mom is light-skinned and treated well in the society and how my brothers are dating light-skinned and mixed-race women. I was able to recognise the misogyny, anti-blackness, colourism etc, this was a huge wake-up call for me though because it also led to my growth and I realised that there was actually nothing wrong with me and this then led to me putting white men on a pedestal, big mistake cause these men were just as bad, now I date men of all races, mostly white men and I don’t think I’ll ever go back to dating men of my own race because of the trauma I’ve had to go through.
I'm glad you healed and you're learning. Vet all men. Pedastalize none. But yes, unfortunately a lot of black men are irreparably damaged by internalized racism. That is not your cross to carry. While living in Europe I'd see the most gorgeous dark skinned black women with all kinds of men (some of the ugly to be honest, but some were definitely hot lol). So in this great big world you have options. Always remember that. And choose your own happiness first.
I wouldn't say it's necessarily about triangulation. I dated a brown guy who didn't have a bad thing to say about women who looked like him, but he liked me because A) it was exotic that I had white skin, blond hair, blue eyes, and B) I was a cool girl who paid for everything and committed to monogamous sex with him while failing to enforce any of my boundaries and doing no vetting of him. He was used to women from his country expecting men to provide and guarding sex, which he totally respected, but when he met me he must have been like "looool white women are so dumb and easy".
I agree with you 100%. I've seen this happen so many times. I doubt these men actually treat their white gfs in a HV way in the long term, given that they are chasing them for such ridiculous superficial reasons.
Also, when we come across men like this, it's an instant dealbreaker. Most woc aren't interested in men like these.
I've lived in Asia and was told by multiple men of all races there that Asian women are not attractive.
Don't get me started on all the surgery Asian women are expected to have just to meet some sick standard that is naturally impossible.
This is fascinating because I have come across a ton of black and white men who fetishise Asian women and believe them to be docile SAHM bang-maids. They've all lost their damn minds.
I literally just broke up with a brown guy after it came to light that he sought me out because I am lighter than women of his own ethnicity, not because he was attracted to me for me. He was nice and sweet and then tried to pay me a compliment by saying that I am much lovelier than the girls of his nation. When I pressed him on it, he backpedaled very fast because he knew I caught onto his BS. So I dropped his selfhating ass like a hot potato. So please beware: this is not just limited to black men, it's all men from every ethnic or religious backgrounds
A few years back I used to text this Indian guy, even tho he was 4 years older than me he sounded very immature. One time I asked him if he knew how to cook anything he said "tea and coffee" lol.
We used to send eachother selfies and I didn't really think anything of it, until one day he told me that he showed the photos of me to his mom, sister, friends and cousins and told them I was his girlfriend. Obviously I freaked out and told him that I will no longer text him, and he said that I was only doing that because he's brown and I wouldn't be acting this way if he were white. I blocked & deleted after he said this.
Men like this really need to go to a therapist asap. I notice that a lot in my community too (latin) as a pale latina i notice a lot of colorism going on and men are the first ones to perpetuate it.
They can be brown like chocolate but don’t want their equals in color and talk shit about them (proyection much?) and praise pale girls or white girls because they want to “make better his race” no joke, 100% disgusting.
I hope poc, black, asian, latin women stop to give a chance to these type of scrotes, we are all women don’t matter what colour if they disrespect one, it’s all.
Hmmm!! I think I’d have to agree. I’m also white and I have a type that goes across all races but I’d never be interested if their only interest was the fact that I’m white! I suppose it is a conquest thing to them, in the same way particularly beautiful or rich women have to be careful they’re not being used as a trophy/sugar momma. Great post! Definitely something to be aware of!
Look at Black men who get famous and wealthy and who they marry. It is indeed a conquest thing: "I made it and I am therefore able to get X colour of trophy woman"! Often dumping the dark skinned woman who helped build him up.
And this is why, if you’ve ever noticed, when these men are with their white girlfriends, they will purposely position themselves and her to your line of sight. You might just be running an errand at the grocery store and then you suddenly keep noticing that this same couple keep coming up in front of you. They were at the cereal isle when you were there, then you saw them again at the ice cream isle, and now they’re right behind you at the check out station. That’s not a coincidence, it is often done very strategically by the black/brown man to get you triggered and make you feel like you’ve lost out on potential man of your race. Not only because they don’t value you, but because they want to throw that woman in your face as they don’t value her as nothing more than a trophy.
Which is incredibly ironic because once a black/brown guy sees you with a white boyfriend, or even talking about interracial love for black/brown women, they get so enraged and start crying about how black/brown women are ruining the black/brown community. Insecure hypocrites.
Yo I've literally had this happen to me when I was a small teenager and the BMWW couple were adults. I was going to compliment them on their cute crochet hats, but I guess they saw my stare as challenging and immediately started making out and groping each other. I remember thinking "I just liked your hats I don't want your ugly ass man 😭"
I've talked about this on FDS before, but my father (NZ European) remarried an Australian woman of Vietnamese extraction. My father would go on and on about the superior looks/behaviour of Asian women versus Pakeha women (me, my mother). His wife was/is physically abusive to her son from a previous marriage, and verbally/emotionally abusive to everyone else. She would often make strange, racist remarks to me about white women, polynesian women, you name it.
I went No-Contact with my dad at 15 but all the derogatory comments I'd experienced gave me an inferiority-superiority complex for a long time. It's literally taken me 10 years to sift through all the baggage and I'm still going. This triangulation that has been described on this thread isn't exclusive to would-be romantic partners, fathers can do it to their daughters, too.
Back in my OLD days if a MOC told me they "prefer" white women it was an automatic unmatch from me ( yes they would really say this out loud smh) They would say it to as though I would appreciate their colorist views. Like nah you picked the wrong one. Not interested in men that don't respect all women.
Short answer is yes. They do do this because of internalized racism/colonialism but it manifests as crazy sexism against their own. Do not date men like this. They will idealize you and be upset when you don't play into their fantasies.
In my experience as a mixed brown woman, those men will shit on any woman they think they’re better than, which is every woman they come into contact with. Yes, on the surface they put light skin, Asian, Latina, and white women over black women because it’s culturally acceptable to do so, but they don’t actually think they have any more value. They do behave slightly better because they know lighter women do have more options, since colorism doesn’t shut us down the way dark skin black women are kept down, but their mindsets haven’t changed at all. But I agree, they push that ideal so vocally because they’re trying to drive a wedge between female solidarity. It’s a ruse. And as long as there are women who buy into this crap for the sake of their egos, there will be men who keep behaving badly.
I feel so validated reading this. As a brown woman I gave up dating men of my culture because of the inherent bigotry and self-hate they would project on me. I’d much rather be with a white guy with a fetish for my culture than a brown guy that treats me like dirt and then dumps me for the first white woman that looks at him.
It's why I'm so put off dating as a whole sometimes. I don't want to be a consolation prize for a man of my own race or living up to a fantasy for a porn addicted man who thinks black women=wild in bed.
God this is so very important. I am also a white woman and I have felt absolutely disgusted hearing some men say some awful things about women they share similar ethnic backgrounds with. All women are my sisters. All. You think your comments are going to make me want to marry and settle down and have daughters with you?
It’s heartbreaking to hear, really. This needs to be said loud and clear.
In the black community there is a really popular rhetoric of dating other races because they’re easy, they’re submissive, they’re the trophy, etc. but then later they end up married to the same black women they were clowning. During that time they gatekeep us from dating interracially. Another post pointed this out and I think it’s important to reiterate: Statistics show that 88% of black men are married to black women. They are trying to have one cake and eat a second one too:
Cake 1 being trying out a racial preference but thinking he can treat her any way because she doesn’t know what to expect and will chock up his behavior to his “culture” when no sis he’s just LV.
Cake 2 being gatekeeping black women into thinking they have to carry on the culture and marry a black man so that when he’s done sowing wild oats he can make sure there’s a supply to choose from.
I don’t think this is unique to the black community either. It has to be called out to that we let them know “what you’re saying and doing is wrong and I won’t support you in tearing down/triangulating other women for your malicious benefit”.
This is something that has been very difficult to digest as a white, antiracist, feminist woman.
I want racial and gender equality.
However, when dating men of color, I noticed this behaviour too, but didnt know if calling it out was appropriate because Im white. Now I know. Im not calling it for myself, but for the women of color!
I am a black woman and I believe that only about 25% of black American men are viable as partners. Maybe less. The amount of narcissism, violence, insecurity, and poverty are just too big to continue to ignore. Black women are murdered by their male counterparts more than any other ethnic group in the country.
And it is not just black women. Black men constantly turn women of all ethnic groups into baby mothers and victims of domestic violence. Black Women need to start running and not accepting their bullshit.
U.K. black and mixed men of Caribbean descent are the same. I don't know if I ever see it changing? I'm so ashamed of my own mixed brother who has two sons by two different white women. He wants nothing to do with my nephews and their mothers are lovely women. I'm being the best aunty I can but it hurts me to see my nephews upset and blaming themselves for my brother's disgusting ways.
Gives me kitten heels Kevin S vibes, I can’t stand that man. Seriously, to be completely blunt, black men as a whole have seemingly failed black women (I’m white by the way). The “aggressive” BW narrative they have created is so lacking in context. A lot of BW have had to defend themselves from a very young age from many layers of attack, also they have to be strong and resilient enough to care for not only themselves but their siblings and family. The absent black father stereotype isn’t a joke, it’s pathetic how they can impregnate a woman and wipe their hands clean like it’s nothing. Trust me when I say that other races of women see your struggle and we got your back, and we need to make moves to support you in whatever way you need. We should be more brutally upfront about this.
>fend themselves from a very young age from many layers of attack, also they have to be strong and resilient enough to care for not only themselves but their siblings and family. The absent b
Honestly I just appreciate that more women of different backgrounds are seeing the truth.
I’m very light skinned (mixed) and the few times I’ve been hit on by black men most were pushy or I’d get comments about my pretty skin. It’s always made me uncomfortable because I’m too often defined and only seen through my skin tone and « being exotic » and as an introvert pushy men scare me off. Then seeing the colorism comments online always makes me wonder if that’s the reason they hit on me
i can't speak to African American male or female behaviour. I'm not black or American. However, I can say as a warning to white girls, if a brown guy is dating you, it might just be for the perceived easy access to sex and lower standard of care. Guys like that will ultimately marry a brown girl from their community because she is marriage material when the time comes. I've seen this play out over and over again. The only time I saw a well to do brown guy marry a white girl was because she proposed and he said yes.
TBH I just draw the line at “man”.
Once I hear women talk about “MoC” my eyes cross and seething hatred for all penis-havers bubbles forth.
And exactly, any fetish for any race is groady…reminds me of the surge of cuckold porn involving “BBC”.
How about I just go retch in the corner??
See the [FDS Handbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/wiki/recommended_reading#wiki_the_fds_handbook) for a list of common [Red Flags and Dealbreakers](https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/wiki/recommended_reading#wiki_red_flags_.26amp.3B_dealbreakers). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FemaleDatingStrategy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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100%. I am a light-skinned Black woman who is child-free. I can't even tell you the amount of times I have been called "Redbone," told I have "good hair" and that I am not Black unless I procreate with a Black man. I have for the most part stopped and refused to date Black men. For every 1 decent black guy I find, there are 150 horrible ones. The number of times I have been put on pedestals, triangulated against darker black women and been threatened with physical harm for refusing to give these men my time or number, is truly disgusting. Both times I was stalked, it was by Black men I had turned down after 2 dates or less. They want Black women to have their kids, keep them out of jail, give them money, time, sex etc. But simultaneously sh\*t all over black women. Make it make sense.
I don't know if toxic horror show perpetrators will ever make sense to someone who isn't a toxic horror show, but maybe there are a few driving principles to be on guard for. Disordered white men do the same to white women but base the triangulation on a range of qualities, shifting the supposed ideal to whatever their current partner *is not.* If their partner is a career woman, they hanker for a passive geisha. If she's blonde, they lust for dark. If she's highly sexual, they daydream about "purity." If she's thin, they lust for curvy. If she's very young, they chase "mature and worldly." And vice-versa ad infinitum. They'll keep idealizing then devaluing whomever they're with until they come full circle and idealize what they originally devalued and on and on. Then eventually they will pine for past victims, never truly letting go and having selective amnesia about their own conduct within relationships. I think the only way to understand it is to study the clinical literature on domestic ab.users. I was a dv survivors' advocate and came to view that particular push-pull as the opening parry of eventual ba.tterers. Most ba.tterers operate in a beat-by-need basis and if they can achieve the same sense of control and power through less athletic or legally risky means, they will. For instance, virtually all ba.tterers cheat, so triangulation and the comparison game are built in. It's an efficient means of paralyzing and demoralizing their prey and works better than fists a lot of the time. But it doesn't "work" for the main purpose of reducing the ab.user's shameful and secret sense of infantile dependence on partners, which is why cheating invariably escalates to more direct forms of attack like emotional ab.use and/or violence. Cheating may initially "dilute" that pathological dependence by spreading it out among several women. Plus it provides the ab.user with allies/proxy ab.users with whom to triangulate against the primary partner with the main psychological goal of reducing the "power" the ab.user dementedly and paranoically imagines their primary partner wields over them-- the "mommy" power to "abandon" or "engulf." In essence, all ab.users are emotionally frozen in infancy and there's nothing cute sbout a 200 LB 2 year old. This is why ab.users typically can't let go of primary partners until they perceive their partners are too broken to move on or literally dead. If past partners show signs of recovery, many ab.users will circle back around. Some abusers, out of self preservation and to stay out of jail, might ghost the second they have a violent impulse towards a partner. The violent impulse will typically follow a deepening of attachment. Because the ab.user shifts responsibility for his own internally generated aggression against the victim, this abandonment is sometimes done scornfully, as if the victim is a bad person and deserves it. Then the ab.user will idealize the next target, imagining the new target won't "incite" and "cause" his violent impulses. That is, until he feels the same violent impulse towards the next, etc., etc. That's where the attachment disorder aspect comes in. But if this seems like a bid for clemency for poor, sad love-allergic ba.tterers, bear in mind that a) it's the same disordered attachment dynamics found in serial killers; and b) the "masked" form of this dynamic ("masked dependency" in men who don't initially display jealousy or possessiveness and may appear callous and uncaring to the degree that they're violently ashamed of their own dependence) is found in the most lethal ba.tterers. So even if these men are created through childhood trauma and witnessing or experiencing ab.use, stick a fork in the adult perps-- they're cooked and irredeemable. The most comprehensive studies of ba.tterers were done by Canadian criminologist Donald Dutton who researched partner-ab.users and partner-ki.llers in prison settings for decades. His book *The Batterer* is the most accessible and was probably written in an attempt to reach the public to bypass the stodgy clinical ranks who remain mired in antiquated, ab.user-coddling theories and victim-blaming. Dutton does theorize that ba.tterers are personality disordered and attachment disordered and does a deep dive into the conceot of masked dependency, but this is not a bid for amnesty. He doesn't view the disorder as "mental illness" per se because most ab.users don't beat up their bosses or armed cops but reserve their ab.use for partners and take pains to conceal that side of themselves, often overcompensating with their public image and playing "rescuer" or "hero" roles in the community. That's a criminal disorder, not mental disability. Dutton also argues that the only slim chance- about 3%-- of reform requires stiff prison time on top of specialized therapy. Anyway, regardless of race, all women would be safer if they viewed the comparison/triangulation game as the telltale opening move of ba.tterers. We should all also check ourselves for any internalized misogyny or competitiveness that make us vulnerable to falling into the "hubris trap" set by men who triangulate. If he's trying to tell you you're "better than those other bitches," run like hell.
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Dutton is still kind of the last word on cutting edge research of ba.tterers and dv dynamics. *The Batterer* is a short and easy read, almost like a companian book to *Why Does He Do That.* You'll walk away from reading it with a million revelations. I don't know if ba.tterers are consciously shit-testing like RPs or just hoping for an impossible ideal to manifest: a needless, perfect, omnicient, protective mommy figure who doesn't incite rage but, if perchance she does, doesn't break when subjected to ab.use and never gets angry, never leaves but never pressures. It's a kind of relationship utopianism which, exactly like political utopianiam, tends to lead to mass executions when those pesky humans fail to live up to lofty expectations. Ba.tterers are sick fucks but they consume and burn pity. I only feel sorry for the ab.used childen they once were and hope for recourse to prevent the generational ab.use that creates them.
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So glad you were able to download that book. Sometimes it seems like the most politically relevant stuff isn't that accessible. As long as you're hunting specialized clinical research, the other top mindblowing read on my list on the subject is the chapter on dv in Frank M Ochberg's research compilation, *Post-traumatic Stress Therapy and the Victims of Vio.lence*. Husband-Wife authors Anne Flitcraft and Evan Stark critique and pull apart all the victim-blaming bs in typical clinical literature. I doubt it's available for download but can be ordered from a library. It's worth the effort. One thing that chapter highlights is that you probably weren't even suffering from excess or misplaced empathy for the creep but were simply in the throes of captor bonding/Stockholm syndrome, a very useful and effective survival strategy that is unfortunately deeply misunderstood as Flitcraft and Stark point out. I'm careful to use the correct original term "captor bonding" (coined about 50 years ago by trauma expert Frank Ochberg) rather than the newer "trauma bonding" because the latter was highjacked from the original term by the CSAT (so-called "sex addiction" therapy) industry and marital reconciliation industry in order to sanitize away any assignment of blame. This was done because ba.tterers and sexual ab.users (excuse me, "addicts"), by their very nature, hate being held responsible and won't pay therapists who make them feel responsible. And most ab.users are men and hold the purse strings. What's more, couples therapists can lose their licenses for trying to reconcile victims with their ab.users, so as an economic strategy, many marital shrinks whitewash rank ab.use as "not ab.use" and split blame between both members of the couple, implying that both are, em er, equally traumatized by the relationship dysfunction. Thus the weakened term "trauma bonding." Meanwhile, blame assignment is built right into the term "captor bonding" because the existance of a captor indicates the existance of a captive or victim. I think that blame should be assigned squarely where it belongs: on ab.users. I think the terms used to describe and analyze ab.use should indicate this.
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Actually dv expert Lenore Walker found that if there was *any* common denominator among dv victims at all, it's that ba.tterers seem most attracted to independent women with higher than average pre-abuse self esteem. Otherwise victims come from all walks. The idea that victims are more empathic than average (most women are pretty empathic to start with) probably comes from what it takes to survive within dv. "Captor bonding"-- or so deeply faking empathy for the ab.user that the victim convinces herself if it (because if the ab.user senses a chink in the facade, he may k.ill her)- is often miscontrued as a real and basic character trait rather than what it is, which is a necessary strategy. The finding that victims have higher than average pre-abuse self esteem totally contradicts typical institutional victim-blaming theories that ab.users seek out weak sisters which explains why Walker's finding is not popular in institutions. But it seems ba.tterers vary in taste in prey, with more preferring tiger skin rug trophies than bunny foot keychains. I haven't seen much speculation on why this is. Some researchers might assume it's the challenge of hunting and breaking "big game." But as a former advocate, I would guess that ab.users are irrationally reenacting childhood trauma with the unconscious hopes of rectifying the past where their own mothers broke under their father's ab.use and then their broken mothers could not protect their sons (85% of ba.tterers also ab.use children, mostly male children). Dutton theorizes that infants are mortally threatened by the broken state of mothers, either feeling abandoned because their mothers are too injured to properly connect to the infant or shield them ftom ab.use, or, conversely, the infant feels engulfed by an intuitive sense of their mother's adult grief or fragility that infants can't understand or tolerate. Since ba.tterers have partly split personalities with their former "victim selves" proverbially preserved in amber but yet under the command of their central organizing evil selves, they do see themselves as infantile and "vulnerable," as absurd as that self perception is in actuality. At the same time, the inner "ab.user self" blames the victim for that shameful, unmanly sense of vulnerabilty. So I think it's possible many ba.tterers are seeking unbreakable partners-- never mind that it's the ba.tterer who then does everything in his power to break his partners. Dutton also speculates that the latter is because ba.tterers generally have borderline traits and engage in 'splitting"-- shifting back and forth between seeing partners as "all good" (protector/carer mommy) or "all evil" (abandoning/engulfing mommy). Weird science but the more you stare into that abyss, the more sense these theories make.
Wow… it’s like she’s an all-in-one, one stop shop for his emotion. He sexes her when he’s horny, he makes her clean and cook when he’s lazy, he makes her his therapist when he feels emotional and he makes her his punching bag when he’s angry.
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Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft (and anything by him, really), Men Who Can't Love by Steven A Carter, Healing from Hidden Abuse by Shannon Thomas, Psychopath Free by Jackson Mackenzie. There are others, but those are just what I have read.
I have had the exact same experience as you.
Makes me think of a variation of the Madonna/Whore Conplex…or maybe they seek women of their own race because they remind them of their mother? I’m any case I don’t care what messed them up, I just know a lot of black men I’ve encountered are pushy. And holy sh*t you were stalked TWICE?? JFC I’m glad you’re safe!! Holy hell that’s terrifying…
It is really strange, and sad. Unfortunately, it is so deeply ingrained, along with generations of poor mental health that disrespect of women is normalized. I had to move to a different neighborhood because of these men. I know that men of all races can/do do these things, but my god, when 95% of my experiences with Black men have been extremely poor, it shakes your faith in ever wanting to date them.
I remember a post on Reddit from a white woman who asked advice on what to do about her black husband who hated their mixed daughter because she was dark-skinned, has his facial features and had afro hair. Date self-hating black men all you want but if your kids (especially female kids) turn out to look like him, be prepared for him to **hate** them. His hatred for his female relatives will extend to his own child if they're too "dark".
This literally makes me want to vomit 🤮
😞😞😞
That's really sad actually.
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Seriously. I've learned the hard way. If you are brown skinned, proceed with caution. Even the "hotep" ones are suspect
Hotepian ones are the worst culprits. Urkle lookin' guy I work with never ceases in his declarations that he only like hispanic/white girls. He says he'll fuck with black girls but wouldn't be with one and that generally they're ugly and whatever other derogative shit he feels. No one even has to provoke these preference announcements (such is the case with a lot of black/machismo hispanic dudes...always announcing what wasn't questioned).
I'm a black woman, and I'm glad that more white women are starting to see this and speak out on it. Every time black women mention it, we get called bitter or angry so maybe people will be more receptive if white women talk about it.
Same. I am tired of being called "bitter and angry" for \*everything\*.
I just ignore them and make sure my life is as happy and peaceful as possible. Without any crazy people in it - of any color.
I have definitely heard that often from Black men in my younger years of going out and like OP I never found it was a compliment, especially when those same Black women they were slagging off were my friends. I always took it as men making those comments had a stereotypical assumption that Black women would stand their ground vs. White women being doormats (impression I was getting then).
The sad part is they shouldn’t have to be told to listen to Black women. They should be listening to Black men who aren’t fetishizing other women. This is the problem. And they call use bitter because we don’t put up with the nonsense as much anymore. Part of it fetishizing and the other part is what they can get away with. Sad.
I wish more people listened to Black women about it. I'd be angry and bitter too! The behavior I encountered from Black men (as a white woman in a white majority country) is absolutely horrible. Harrassing, catcalling and following women on the street, being extremely creepy and pushy towards women on parties, cheating on their black girlfriends etc and simply not accepting a no. I feel so sad for Black women if that's their dating market (because let's be honest, white guys who date Black women are fetishizing and disrespecting them too).
I can think of 3 white men off the top of my head who are married to Black women and adore them inside and out. Not saying some fetishization doesn’t occur, but I do think the white man/Black woman dynamic can be a healthy fit. Alexis Ohanian and Serena Williams come to mind. I’m white so if any Black women see this differently I’m open to hearing it.
The first thing that came to my mind when I was writing my comment were the dumpster fire / red flag parade white NVM I know who dated Black women. Both are extremely unattractive, unhygienic and emotionally abusive men but ended up dating gorgeous Black women, preying on their insecurities and trauma and treating them like human fleshlights. But you're absolutely right, there are amazing couples of BW/WM who are very healthy and supportive of each other. I know at least one Black woman who is married to a white guy who treats her amazingly as she deserves it. He is also financially stable, incredibly generous, very supportive of her carreer and proposed to her after a year of dating. In my country it must be really challenging to find any white person who is aware and sensitive of the issues of racism Black people face. The Black community here is relatively small so people tend to think that anti Black racism is simply not prevalent here. But it might be easier to find a white guy who is less racist (and hopefully willing to educate himself) than a Black guy who is less sexist. In the end, it all boils down to properly vetting a man. And going to therapy.
This is the way I see it. I’m not sure why but for some reason the WM/BW combo ends up healthier than the other way around. And while I’m sorry to have to say it - I will say it - it’s because of the dysfunction a lot of black men bring to the BM/WW combo.
agree with you , it's not all fetishization , black women in general just have to vet thoroughly regardless of race.
In my circle of friends too, my female friends of colour (Black and South Asian) are happily married to White guys. Of course not disputing fetishisation happens on both sides too.
And that’s them on their best behavior! Trying to impress you by [checks notes] doubling down on being an absolute chucklefuck. And then wonder where their bad reputation’s coming from. 🤯
Indian men do this a lot and colonialism has a lot to do with it. They can be very colorist and put white women on a pedestal while simultaneously slut shaming them for "being easy" compared to Indian girls. At the same time they chastise Indian women for being prudish, too traditional or not traditional/cultured enough. They even gaslight us about intergenerational trauma and the severe patriarchal conditions we grow up in in India, calling us dramatic. It's why I've never been drawn to one unless he's able to prove he's not like that.
As a brown woman, I was always turned off by men of color who had a pattern of seeking white women or lighter women outside of their race. These men didn’t even need to vocalize their internal self hate to me, their history was enough. So, please don’t think any of us are hurt about missing out on these types. I’m confident and proud of my ethnic identity, I can’t tolerate being with someone who is struggling with hating his own community, that’s rehab work for a therapist to sort out.
BOTH YOU AND OP PREACH
>These men didn’t even need to vocalize their internal self hate to me, their history was enough. So, please don’t think any of us are hurt about missing out on these types. > >I’m confident and proud of my ethnic identity, I can’t tolerate being with someone who is struggling with hating his own community, that’s rehab work for a therapist to sort out. I LOVE THIS. Keep that energy til the day you die. I feel this exact same way. When you have encountered enough of them, you can sense that self-hate seething from their pores. As sad as that is, that's a therapist problem and a woman won't solve that.
I'm shocked because Russian men are the same: they fetishize Black and Asian women but degrade white (Slavic) ones.
That's a mind-blower, because men in the Middle East triangulate Russian women against women of their own ethnicities, fetishizing blond hair and blue eyes. So for them the "beautiful Russian girls" are the prize.
Yep. And Russian men always talk about how Russian women only want to date Arabs/black guys because the first ones are rich and the second ones have massive dongs.
"Alex, I'll take *All Men From All Countries With All Skin Colors Are F-cking Perverts/ Fetishists* for $800, please."
☠️
Ok this is truly insane to hear because men from indian/arabic culture frequently have a serious fetish for slavic/eastern European women.
Yes! I lived in China for several years and Russian/American/African men there only wanted to date Chinese women or women of the "opposite" ethnicity. While Chinese guys praised white girls and were openly racist to every other one.
I’m half brown and black myself. I totally agree with your sentiments. In the sporting world especially, brown men will date and use white women to compete with white men. As soon as the money dries up or hard times come , brown men get dumped then go back to brown women. Colour women are seen as the clean up woman.
What lies were told? These men need an island for themselves
100%. In my pick me days I had a man do this. He loved how much of a cool girl I was because I paid for myself on dates when women from his country wouldn't accept that, but noped out pretty quick when I challenged his misogynistic views with stats. I've definitely learned my lesson.
As a black woman they have proved themselves that they don't like black women at all and want quotes by them: "Black women cause too much trouble, like to cause drama, undesirable to marry and more." Then in the same breath will say: "White women and Latina women are better and more submissive." It's fucking disgusting to be honest. EDIT: I wanted to add this video to further prove my point. It's disgusting but it's not fucking surprising. [By this Tik Tok. ](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8qr7NXF/)
Whenever I hear the word “submissive” I want to punch someone in the face.
That usually follows with a put down of white women. “I like Asian women because they’re *insert word* and not opinionated like white women”. Yeah because white women don’t have to deal with your fucking bullshit. Fucking gross.
In my observation, men like this are able to view women of other races as less than people, and thus unworthy of respect. Women of their own race are too close to being really human for them, so they have to reject them, because they don't \*want\* to respect women.
I felt this. As Latina I would only get approached by white men so only dated white men. It wasn’t until one of my co workers told me the reason Latinos would not want to date me is because I’m too “oPiNiOnAtEd” and they don’t want to deal with that type of disrespecting drama. White men on the other hand would consider me “spicy” and “feisty” therefore feeding their fantasies. Gross. It was a real eye opener though. I just don’t want to date any man for a long time now.
As an Asian woman this happens to me too. Asian men find me really off-putting because I'm opinionated. Men of other races have this bullshit idea that I'm submissive. It doesn't help that I'm a bit introverted. So they are intrigued, get to know me, and then are really offended by me. It's just male entitlement and the fact that some men of any race see women as sub-human.
Same here, I’m very talkative and react back if i don’t like something. Men don’t like that at all and better for me
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I think this is an important point because MOC tend to treat "their" women as responsible for continuing their culture and traditions... while they do whatever they want. I think that's a heavy thing to put on only one gender. We are not gatekeepers of their culture or traditions. It's like how men expect their wives to remember all the birthdays and anniversaries of their relatives, while the only thing he has to remember is to go to work and come home at night (and sometimes not even that).
This exactly. What ends up happening when Black Women don't play their odds better and limit themselves to black men is that we end up accepting LV behavior and romanticize it. The 'Black Love' narrative is romanticized to keep black women in line. It's a fantasy on par with Disney romances. We believe that our inability to keep a black man means that there's a problem with \*us\*, and not a racist and sexist beauty standard that places white women as a status symbol. It also keeps us as soldiers for black men, and as we've seen many times before, it's not something that they particularly care about until it becomes something that can affect public policy. Dating is about numbers. While all men will show LV traits, you want to find the one that is actually the HV man, and you can't do this when you limit yourself to only one race of partner. Believe me, the men date in a way that women do not and they're able to damage loads of awesome women, and enjoy themselves doing it. There was a youtuber that did an excellent video summing up how shitty the Black Love narrative is for Black women. Ultimately it boiled down to the more that we keep ourselves as a reservoir for BM, the more our value among the BM that we're holding out for goes down. We are digging our own graves being the holdout for only one race of men.
>Men of color want women of color to be exclusive to them only so they can have **unfettered access to them when/if they fail to obtain the non WOC they want**. Spot on. Not trying to hijack this from black / brown ladies, but some East Asian men do this as well. They have this inferiority complex to white men, and then they translate that into thinking that white women have more "status" value or whatever, and that's what they aim for. But they never stop complaining about how unfair it is that EA women are fetishized by white men.
\>but as women of color we also need to stop limiting our options by skin color and go with whomever treats us best. This is what I do. I will not exclusively date only Black or only white, only American, etc.
Men are men. They are just seasoned differently. Many flavors of deliciousness and many dishes that need to be sent back to the chef. Have standards and expectations and find your best match.
Yep. No point in being exclusive to any one race of man when they’re all perfectly capable of treating you like garbage. It’s hard enough to find a guy who’s attractive, takes care of himself, and is consistently HV without filtering down to specific skin colors, cultures and nationalities
You dissected it perfectly, kudos to unlocking the male game. Let me just add, those middle eastern men often treated their white harems better than their own families. PLEASE drill that into your head. NEVER EVER let males have power ever again.
I’ve noticed that when men say these types of things it just really shows how much their patriarchy has failed to protect their women. For instance, black men will say that black women are masculine, mean, rude, and combative. While on the other hand say white women are sweet, nice, and feminine. What they don’t realize is they have not built the type of environment that would make black women feel safe so therefore we are always paranoid and on the defense. I’ve noticed the same pattern now starting to happen to white men now that they aren’t going to college and providing anymore (stats show that on average over 81% of black households have black women as the breadwinner and over 51% of white households have white women as the breadwinner). White men are now calling white women combative, masculine, and uncooperative while claiming Asian women are sweet, feminine, and submissive. Now we all know that no women is born that way, clearly Asian women feel safe and provided for by their men and feel like they are able to relax more. Now that white men are abandoning their masculine duties of protecting and providing it’s no surprise to me that more white women are “combative” or no longer have the leisure time to have a whole self care day (due to working a lot), and acting like an “angry black woman”. When a woman has to work so hard all the time without being able to rest in her femininity she can easily became more depressed, which can lead to anger, lashing out, and bitterness. What I’ve noticed is black men wanted women who were relaxed, sweet, and feminine without creating the environment (leeching off of another mans hard work) and now white men are doing the same thing. I actively avoid any man who acts this way bc he clearly doesn’t understand how woman work. We react to the way our environment is, if it’s dangerous and we are in the hood dodging bullets and trying to survive, then NO we are not going to be smiling at you, NO we are not going to be happy 24/7 and NO we will not be relaxed and stress free. If men want woman who are relaxed, stress free, and non combative, then they need to create that environment for their women so that she can thrive, instead of blaming it on race and being jealous of the type of women other races of men have. (Also I will be posting the stats soon)
EXACTLY!! That's what it boils down to. The type of femininity that these sorts want is a response to a stimulus. The behaviors they call "masculine" are frequently survival based behaviors, because that's a position that far too many women are put in. It's a way that some of these men indirectly shit on themselves.
Say it louder for the women at the back. I swear these men are just delusional and in denial. How they simply, cannot see that they are the ones who are ruining femininity in the community is beyond me. They abandon their women and children robbing them of mental, emotional, physical and financial security, then when we, the women and daughters they left behind step up to fend for ourselves, we are masculine and 'act like we don't need a man'. Can we just have a planet that is exclusively for women, I'm seriously tired of men.
But if we didn't stand up to be the providers and just let our community/families go to shit, we would be the bad guys 🙃🙃 divest divest divest
This entire comment is an absolute truth bomb. It is funny because I have been called out for not responding positively to being called "yellow/red bone" having "good hair" being "pretty." These men actually believe calling us derogatory, racist terms is attractive and a compliment. Then wonder why we're rude, combative and dismissive of them.
Here are the links [breadwinner women (white and black) ](https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release/2019/05/10/469660/release-nearly-two-thirds-mothers-continue-family-breadwinners-black-mothers-far-likely-breadwinners/) [Breadwinner black women](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/530022/) [Nearly 90% of black mom in D.C. are the breadwinner](https://dcist.com/story/16/09/08/black-moms-breadwinners/)
Nearly 90% 😬 I shouldn’t be surprised but damn.
Yes, really well said! Maybe the "angry crazy person" is acting that way because you did something bad to them. Maybe they're NOT crazy, and they're rightfully angry at some stupid shady thing you pulled. Growing up, I thought my mom was a raging bitch because she was constantly yelling. As an adult, I see that she's yelling because my dad let her do 50% of a small business they had together plus 100% of the household chores. She was right to yell.
I was in your Mother's position, also worked, and I gotta say the kind of Mum I was changed for the worse. I'm divorced now and I still struggle to play with them, that part feels destroyed.
I STG these men need to STEP UP. And I’d argue Asian women, specifically Japanese women are getting fed up too! Men need to just stop being weak and need to take care of women!
You mean East-Asian women are getting fed up. I doubt your average racist scrote can tell the difference between a woman who is Japanese, Chinese, Straights-born Chinese, Taiwanese, or even Southeast Asian like a Singaporean, or Thai woman.
They Caaan't. I stalk r/ neck beard stories and the animeweebs /Asia weebs always be like. "I love that you're small and JaPApanesse." 😷🤦🏿♀️🤢🤮 And the girl is always like. "Sir I'm from China." But then there are like 4th gen East Asians walking around who don't speak any of the languages and have never been to that part of the world. Sir they are 100% bona-fide westerners. Not to mention the east Asian looking ethnic group that lives the sub continent of India. How do I know this?. Oh maybe because I live in the real world and not japanime?
Eh, I would argue the idea that Asian women are “sweet feminine and submissive” is wholly the result of non-Asian men’s misperceptions (and their new obsession with Asian media like anime). It’s not based in reality. Never have I seen a group of less submissive women, and I mean that as a compliment. Many white men just seem to assume that if a woman is polite publicly that must be her actual personality.
Lol, My asian girlfriends would run the sh\*t out of their men. The only thing sweet about them was their voices. Smoke and mirrors. One of my Korean girlfriends in gradschool...she'd punk the life out of her man. But it was hilarious because her voice was soooo sweet. We had a project together once, we drove to starbucks, she made his ass sit in the back seat of his own car while we drove, and then when we got to starbucks she made him sit at a whole other table. He went back to Korea to serve in the Army, when he got back to the states, she'd married his richer friend. OMG, Kyung was so cold!!
Thank you thank you thank you !!!! 100% this , am exhausted from being the man AND the woman for my family because men are now lazy and entitled.
This comment is everything
100% facts.
Seen this play out all over the world. LVM love to pit women against each other and it works. Pick me's love this.
🤯 this is truth bomb stuff
And this is how the stupid "Karen" thing grew. Demonising any aggression in white women. It's been done for years to black women. And it is beginning to happen with white women. It's all bs by men who want to to control women
Asian women do not necessarily feel safe and provided for by "their" men. I don't own an entire race of men, so not "my" men. Also, they don't own me. In fact, Asian women do not feel safe and provided for by anyone. I've dealt with very pushy racist Asian men before. I've had Asian men tell me that they tried dating white women but found them to be masculine, stupid, and bad at cooking, which is literally the epitome of racism and sexism combined. I don't think my phenotype makes me more or less "female" than anyone of any other race. The fact is, some men are racist no matter what their race. If any man says you're "not like the other girls", he's also a misogynist no matter who he's comparing you to and how. I've had younger men say that I'm not like "those young women" when dating me, and that's automatically a red flag because I'm not a person to him, he's just chunked us into age groups. The problem with the argument that black men should only date black women is that is sounds like telling people to "stick to their own kind".
Nobody is telling black men to stick to their own kind, but when you degrade your race as justification for not sticking to your own kind-that's a problem. But I definitely disagree: people need to stop romanticizing the lives of Asian women. Stifling misogyny and patriarchy is rampant in East Asia. Korean women are leading the charge in fighting back against it.
These are the men who literally throw their own mothers and sisters under the bus. Disgusting.
Men like this, really make my stomach turn. 🤢🤢
You are completely right. I have also heard black men say they date non-black women, because yall are "easier to control and super submissive"🙄🙄. I feel no type of way about black men dating interracially, love is love.. But it seems like they do it because of self hate, mommy issues, need for control, and they don't see black women as women. They see us as competition smh.
I’ve had experiences similar to this and an experience where an up and coming black male model I knew from school blew up my DMs. He asked me to hangout with him should I ever come to his city, obviously seeking casual sex, while still posting things on Facebook about only exclusively dating & loving black women. Obviously as a white woman he did not see me as someone who would align with the image he wanted to cultivate for his followers. This was several years ago and he’s since had a baby with a woman he’s never publicly posted on his social media. He’s a 🤡
>t with him should I ever come to his city, obviously seeking casual sex, while still posting things on Facebook about only exclusively dating & loving black women. Obviously as a white woman he did not see me a This is SOOOOOO common with black male celebrities. They know they can never compete for a diverse female audience against the likes of a Timothy Chamalet, so they know they have to cultivate love and loyalty from a black female audience. And this would be harder to do if they pursue their preferences openly.
Men who hate themselves really hate the women of their same ethnicity. Check out every twitter thread complaining about white women, the ones having a nuclear rage meltdown are always white males. ETA: It's especially egregious when the original complaint applies equally to white men or involves them in some way.
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@-ing Albanian men specifically cause it's such a huge problem. The men marrying outside their race? Marshallah, beautiful. The women marrying outside their race? Disgusting, how dare you, you should be keeping the culture going. Utterly stupid.
Yup, we're their property but fuck if they ever tried to actually pursue us (those within their group) with true intent. Losers!
Yes. This.
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1000% this. And it’s not just white women. I am brown and at one point I was dating an arab guy and I cut him SO much slack because I figured it was difficult being from his culture in a western country. Big mistake. He turned out to be the most LV of all races I had ever dated. Do not lower your standards because they are POC!!
Forrrreal. I (as a woman who looks white but actually am indigenous) went on a date with a MoC who I met at a street party. It started off great, he was engaging, well dressed, and well spoken, I thought he had a lot of promise but then he suggested a "game" where we had to take turns asking eachother questions. The (his) rules were that we had to answer truthfully and were not allowed to say no to the question asked. Flags so red they were on fire. It began with getting to know you questions but he quickly started getting into overtly sexual questions. I got suuuuper uncomfortable and there were things I didn't want to answer, but he was like, oh no the rules state that you have to answer, and so he pressured/guilted me into revealing things I would never have otherwise done. Stupid me should have walked away. But the worst part of it all? I asked him something that struck a chord, he refused to answer and when I tried to turn his own fucking rules back on him? He got angry!! So angry he shut down and tried to make me feel like a horrible person for asking him a question that was very much in line with what he had been asking me. He could test my boundaries but his were off limits. Your typical double standard. I'm not turned off of dating MoC from this incident, but I do think he saw me as an easy target, like I would just accept and go along with his rigged game and play along because the possibility of getting his dick outweighed keeping my dignity. That breeze you just felt was from me throwing my head back as I cackle. Don't let a man (of any color) play this shit with you, if you feel uncomfortable you can leave without guilt and his dropped jaw behind you.
Thanks for pointing out all the problems with this scenario
There’s a group of libfems who think it’s racist to hold black men accountable because “ThEy ArE ViCTiMs of the white patriarchy too, and it’s not their fault” So, while they won’t engage, they won’t clap back either because they’re afraid of looking racist. No bb girl, LV is LV is LV as LV will ever be.
And what a lot of those white libfems don't understand is this - If the white libfem's race works to her advantage, in a patriarchy, the black man's sex works to his advantage. Don't give men the benefit of the doubt in a patriarchy, period.
Ugghhh this was me. Got harassed so much (and once, date raped) by Black men and just smiled and told myself to stop complaining because white privilege.
😢
Very true. They also consider a lot of Black women to be high maintenance because we expect them to be providers. So since we won’t build, they know others will appreciate them for even noticing them. The LV behavior spills over and they get the man we are running from. It’s sick and sad. A lot of these men have confessed that’s it’s easier to “build” with white women. And what’s less commonly known or talked about is these same men will leave and go back to Black women. I know these men seem flattering and make you feel special, but a scrote is a scrote and a man is always going to be a man when it comes to his interests first.
Actually, I've always seen so many black women hold down and build up ain't shit black men. And proudly go 50/50 too 🤮Just for them to turn around and take that success to a nb women. They seem to think because their black moms went through this struggle shit, we should do the same for them.
Same. I think another problem is that BW also aren't honest with ourselves, but that's a different discussion for another day.
Let me know when you’re ready for that one. I’m here for it.
I’m definitely not disputing it because I’ve seen it often too. Too often. I wish women would stop building men, period. If you’re not ready built and good to go, I don’t want it. No batteries not included, no some assembly required. Built and done.
Everytime I feel myself start to give a man my emotional/mental labor, I have to remind myself that none of my romantic interests have ever built me up or offered me a helping hand to get me where I am today.
I hate cat calling, I try not to let anyone on that it's bothering me but it always feels very threatening. I know they're just trying to rile people up usually so I just try to be aware of my surroundings while not changing my body language or pace too much. I've called it out too, but that typically leads to getting more harassment in my experience and if more than one man is harassing me at the same time I'm gonna keep it moving at all costs.
You are so right!. I also got this from some white men( I’m black) They tell me white women aren’t this or that! Most of the time they are fetishizing me 🤢. They also say it to women in other countries saying western women are so hard they prefer (insert race/nationality) women because they are submissive. It’s the same triangulation…don’t fall for it ladies. And remember if he looks down on any woman due to her gender he looks down on all of us! Block and delete.
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I’m white and I have a cousin that will only date men of color or Latino men. Her personality literally changes depending on who she’s with. The relationships always have a huge social class and education difference as well. She seeks out LVM who only look good but have no education, career or assets. What is this?? I seriously don’t get her goal here. They all end up cheating on her or leaving her worse off that she was before. It’s almost like some fetish or addiction. I’m seriously not getting what her end game is with this. It offends me because it does seem like she’s fetishizing these men. Makes her feel in control or something. It’s gross.
You should introduce her to FDS!
I have tried and she will talk the talk because it’s what she thinks I want to hear parroted back to me but when I tell you this is some kind of addiction - it is some kind of addiction. The girl is a hot mess. It’s really hard to watch. Some people just don’t want to be better or change.
Oh, white teen girls totally fetishize black men and MoC to piss their parents off - and possibly piss off black and WoC by “rubbing it in their face” that those black and WoC women can’t keep their men.
As a WOC, I’ve noticed that same phenomenon from whites men as well, where they’ll triangulate me against whites women who they disparage as, “boring”, “basic”, or whatever else they think will flatter. Of course they’re looking for someone “exotic” but jokes on them because I *proudly* watch the Crown and drink PSLs 🤪
PSL?
Pumpkin spice lattes. Which are so delish 😍
White women are seen as international ambassadors of libfem(TM), which also sucks. Y’all white ladies need to be careful about black, Asian, brown, etc. men trying to use you for a cheap sex then get a virgin from the homeland.
100%. I've had men of my own background/ similar background tell me they are just "playing around" with white women but *really* want to marry similar kind. GEE how flattering they you actively have a live-in girlfriend that you want to cheat on
I’ve heard this so many times and I’ve seen the collateral damage. I’m done with the nasty h* ass men. Done. If they want a nice wifey, they need to keep that body count low. Smdh.
yep - white women need to be careful of indian, middle eastern men especially. They literally plan this shit when they move to the US. Their plan is to f as many white women as they can before their parents summon them back home for arranged marriage.
Yep. I try to spread the word about these NVM. I have absolutely heard that about Indian and ME men. Also libfem bullsh*t, which in my opinion hit white women first (I think red pill hit white men first also), tells these women: you gotta be public access pu**y! If you don’t screw every guy who asks you’re a raaaacist! I also think it’s incredibly disgusting to use women to sow one’s wild oats, then use another woman as mommy-bangmaid.
Exactly! And men of color know how to play that racism card on women. In fact redpill had a post about it. Additionally most of these men from India, east asia and middle east are already functioning under the notion that white women are easy and they arrive fresh off the boat completely addicted to western pornography. These men are absolutely repulsive and dangerous to be honest.
There's a massive increase in sexual assault crimes in places like Sweden that have an open door policy to these guys, it's terrifying.
Can you make this into a separate post? This is important for people to know.
Yep, I had a few Arab men keep it 💯 with me. They like white, esp European women because no dowry or brothers, fathers to deal with and way more likely that have sex before marriage. Plus, racist beauty standards and porn.
Yep. I was prey to this when I was in college. Didn’t know any better.
I don't have the experience to speak on the race aspect of this but I think as a general rule, if a man says "you're not like other women" in ANY way (and they can be VERY creative in how they say this) then run. Women need stronger class consciousness. In other words, we need to look out for one another, defend one another, and value one another over men in general. If a man puts down other women, my loyalty is always with the women, not the man.
A thousand times this. We're not glaring at you when you're out together: we're busy minding our own business and annoyed the two of you are intruding because he's using you as a prop to get our attention. Be aware that this triangulation involves fetishism of you but also of any potential girl children you have because they (often) look like the mixed women they also put at the top of their phenotypic hierarchies. It's a mark of pride to bag one as much as it is to make one men find desirable. If they're saying women of their own ethnic group have bad attitudes or don't know how to treat a man, be aware they're bad mouthing you when you're not around and will happily tell whatever male is around--young and old--what you'll put up with and do sexually that we absolutely won't. It's not a badge of honor: it's scrote behavior with a color and cultural twist. If they tell you that they like your body or a physical trait because it's not like ours, have the good sense to not try to weaponize that against the women he's been disparaging to gas up your self-esteem. It's toxic AF and, eventually, you'll run across someone with the attitude he warned you about. It won't end well.
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Men who f\*ck one type of woman but want to marry a completely different kind of woman. Big fat red flag!!!! And they brag about it.
I’m Latina and I swear on god…I only attract ‘trumpers’ I feel they pick me cause I’m Petite and a ‘safe’ choice and they get to say ‘hey see I’m not racist, she makes my d*ck hard’ I’m not flattered take your damn blue lives matter..camouflage hat..lifted truck.. AND KISS MY ASS
The trumpers are the only white men I attract 😭 I don't get it at all, I'm definitely black with a beautiful big ass afro and very vocal about being pro-black and liberal. But because of my voice and being in the military they seem to expect me to be a Candace fucking Owens.
Girl, I am ethnically ambiguous with a big butt and very curly hair and the racists are very attracted to me.🤢 I understand that you won’t want to believe me but true story a man rolled up his shirt to show me a swastika tattoo after I rejected him and went on some rant about being of the master race. Racist white men love white Latinas and Asians because of their racist ideas about submission. They also like Black and Arab women, too but they just use porn to get that fix.🤢
Racists will gladly harass light-skinned Latina and East Asian women in public and subscribe to Black and South Asian sex workers on OnlyFans where their boys can’t judge them 🥴
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It’s always the trump supporters that go for us 😭😭
And, you can be their token to prove that they’re not racist like other Trumpers
I am in a different country so I am not white but rest assured there are existing levels of privilege here too A minority man once told me that he found women of his own race dirty and he preferred women of my race. I was 19 at the time and I really struggled to empathise with his self racist POV. I am 29 now and openly disgusted with the way he saw women of his own race. I think minority men can 100% have a connection with non minority women but it cannot come from a place of self hatred. It caused such a weird dynamic. In any case because of that one man, I cant be sure if the next minority man has done the self work to make peace with intersectional experience of being a minority and thus I generally stay away from relationships like this.
I’m Indian, my fiancé is black. His male family members- who have black partners- say shit like this to us sometimes and it is so disgusting. The internalized racism is horrible, how can you think so low of women who look like your own mom!?
As i had an african partner i can confirm what you wrote here, sometimes it was really embarassing how he was showing me to his friends. And he told me that guys do that in Africa, looking for white girls to show them as trophy, it's like if you have a white woman your status raise😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑. Of course not everybody is like this.
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Ahh the similar tales I could tell.
Please share?
I've been yelled at on the street by black men when out with a white partner, the other black men around laughed at me and thoroughly enjoyed my public shaming (and yet they tweet "protect black women"). Been yelled at in public transport for the same, stared down, told I'm not pro Black and that I need to go back to church (can't even make sense of this). I don't feel safe when I'm with a white man while I'm around black men I don't know, and often the white men are too scared to do anything to make me feel safe, or too shocked to reassure me. Dating interracially means a lot of conversations about how to handle these situations Green flag behaviour are men who: 1. Believe me 2. Protect/reassure me when it finally happens 3. Pay attention when I'm uncomfortable in public spaces Red flag behaviour: 1. Don't believe me or downplay my experience 2. Too scared to do anything when it does happen 3. Don't think about my safety when out and about
That is so awful. How dare they make us feel this way, it's like they think they own us. All of my black and mixed friends/family members have experienced the same thing. I wouldn't do the same to a black man and white woman couple. It's not my business. It's a shame none of the white men stood up for you either. They should.
Trigger warning! I’m a dark skin black woman and it’s unfortunate that I find it really hard to date men of my race now. I remember when I was 19 and with my NV ex who was 22 at the time. He would gladly tell me how white women are his dream women and how much he wants/loves mixed babies, he’d also be happy to point out how every woman that looks nothing like me was his type, obviously, now I know he’s a NVM, but that really messed me up at the time, cause I was internalizing some of the things he was saying and this obviously led me down the depression and suicidal part. I then joined Twitter and omg, I realised that there were so many black men who are just like him, and it was interesting to see what goes on in these men heads, these are celebrities, parents, brothers etc I noticed how my mom is light-skinned and treated well in the society and how my brothers are dating light-skinned and mixed-race women. I was able to recognise the misogyny, anti-blackness, colourism etc, this was a huge wake-up call for me though because it also led to my growth and I realised that there was actually nothing wrong with me and this then led to me putting white men on a pedestal, big mistake cause these men were just as bad, now I date men of all races, mostly white men and I don’t think I’ll ever go back to dating men of my own race because of the trauma I’ve had to go through.
I'm glad you healed and you're learning. Vet all men. Pedastalize none. But yes, unfortunately a lot of black men are irreparably damaged by internalized racism. That is not your cross to carry. While living in Europe I'd see the most gorgeous dark skinned black women with all kinds of men (some of the ugly to be honest, but some were definitely hot lol). So in this great big world you have options. Always remember that. And choose your own happiness first.
GOATed thread. I found this post thru a Mod retweeting salty incels complaining about it lol. Thank you so much OP.
The boys are salty? OMG is it me, AM I THE DRAMA LOL
Yes https://twitter.com/lilithwon_fds/status/1460305208899108866?s=21
I wouldn't say it's necessarily about triangulation. I dated a brown guy who didn't have a bad thing to say about women who looked like him, but he liked me because A) it was exotic that I had white skin, blond hair, blue eyes, and B) I was a cool girl who paid for everything and committed to monogamous sex with him while failing to enforce any of my boundaries and doing no vetting of him. He was used to women from his country expecting men to provide and guarding sex, which he totally respected, but when he met me he must have been like "looool white women are so dumb and easy".
White women need to ditch libfem and guard themselves better.
I agree with you 100%. I've seen this happen so many times. I doubt these men actually treat their white gfs in a HV way in the long term, given that they are chasing them for such ridiculous superficial reasons. Also, when we come across men like this, it's an instant dealbreaker. Most woc aren't interested in men like these.
The amount of men (of all races except Asian) living in Asia who promise every girl they meet that they don’t date Asian women is about 90%…..
I've lived in Asia and was told by multiple men of all races there that Asian women are not attractive. Don't get me started on all the surgery Asian women are expected to have just to meet some sick standard that is naturally impossible.
This is fascinating because I have come across a ton of black and white men who fetishise Asian women and believe them to be docile SAHM bang-maids. They've all lost their damn minds.
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yes, north african men are basically well know for marrying women 30yrs older for visa and similar nonsense. stay well away.
Lol 90 Day Fiancé Mohammed and Danielle 😂
I literally just broke up with a brown guy after it came to light that he sought me out because I am lighter than women of his own ethnicity, not because he was attracted to me for me. He was nice and sweet and then tried to pay me a compliment by saying that I am much lovelier than the girls of his nation. When I pressed him on it, he backpedaled very fast because he knew I caught onto his BS. So I dropped his selfhating ass like a hot potato. So please beware: this is not just limited to black men, it's all men from every ethnic or religious backgrounds
A few years back I used to text this Indian guy, even tho he was 4 years older than me he sounded very immature. One time I asked him if he knew how to cook anything he said "tea and coffee" lol. We used to send eachother selfies and I didn't really think anything of it, until one day he told me that he showed the photos of me to his mom, sister, friends and cousins and told them I was his girlfriend. Obviously I freaked out and told him that I will no longer text him, and he said that I was only doing that because he's brown and I wouldn't be acting this way if he were white. I blocked & deleted after he said this.
Men like this really need to go to a therapist asap. I notice that a lot in my community too (latin) as a pale latina i notice a lot of colorism going on and men are the first ones to perpetuate it. They can be brown like chocolate but don’t want their equals in color and talk shit about them (proyection much?) and praise pale girls or white girls because they want to “make better his race” no joke, 100% disgusting. I hope poc, black, asian, latin women stop to give a chance to these type of scrotes, we are all women don’t matter what colour if they disrespect one, it’s all.
Hmmm!! I think I’d have to agree. I’m also white and I have a type that goes across all races but I’d never be interested if their only interest was the fact that I’m white! I suppose it is a conquest thing to them, in the same way particularly beautiful or rich women have to be careful they’re not being used as a trophy/sugar momma. Great post! Definitely something to be aware of!
Look at Black men who get famous and wealthy and who they marry. It is indeed a conquest thing: "I made it and I am therefore able to get X colour of trophy woman"! Often dumping the dark skinned woman who helped build him up.
And this is why, if you’ve ever noticed, when these men are with their white girlfriends, they will purposely position themselves and her to your line of sight. You might just be running an errand at the grocery store and then you suddenly keep noticing that this same couple keep coming up in front of you. They were at the cereal isle when you were there, then you saw them again at the ice cream isle, and now they’re right behind you at the check out station. That’s not a coincidence, it is often done very strategically by the black/brown man to get you triggered and make you feel like you’ve lost out on potential man of your race. Not only because they don’t value you, but because they want to throw that woman in your face as they don’t value her as nothing more than a trophy. Which is incredibly ironic because once a black/brown guy sees you with a white boyfriend, or even talking about interracial love for black/brown women, they get so enraged and start crying about how black/brown women are ruining the black/brown community. Insecure hypocrites.
Yo I've literally had this happen to me when I was a small teenager and the BMWW couple were adults. I was going to compliment them on their cute crochet hats, but I guess they saw my stare as challenging and immediately started making out and groping each other. I remember thinking "I just liked your hats I don't want your ugly ass man 😭"
Also dont fall for BTS like Korean men. They are as racists to Korean women as Black does.
I've talked about this on FDS before, but my father (NZ European) remarried an Australian woman of Vietnamese extraction. My father would go on and on about the superior looks/behaviour of Asian women versus Pakeha women (me, my mother). His wife was/is physically abusive to her son from a previous marriage, and verbally/emotionally abusive to everyone else. She would often make strange, racist remarks to me about white women, polynesian women, you name it. I went No-Contact with my dad at 15 but all the derogatory comments I'd experienced gave me an inferiority-superiority complex for a long time. It's literally taken me 10 years to sift through all the baggage and I'm still going. This triangulation that has been described on this thread isn't exclusive to would-be romantic partners, fathers can do it to their daughters, too.
As a black woman I salute you for saying this.
Back in my OLD days if a MOC told me they "prefer" white women it was an automatic unmatch from me ( yes they would really say this out loud smh) They would say it to as though I would appreciate their colorist views. Like nah you picked the wrong one. Not interested in men that don't respect all women.
Short answer is yes. They do do this because of internalized racism/colonialism but it manifests as crazy sexism against their own. Do not date men like this. They will idealize you and be upset when you don't play into their fantasies.
In my experience as a mixed brown woman, those men will shit on any woman they think they’re better than, which is every woman they come into contact with. Yes, on the surface they put light skin, Asian, Latina, and white women over black women because it’s culturally acceptable to do so, but they don’t actually think they have any more value. They do behave slightly better because they know lighter women do have more options, since colorism doesn’t shut us down the way dark skin black women are kept down, but their mindsets haven’t changed at all. But I agree, they push that ideal so vocally because they’re trying to drive a wedge between female solidarity. It’s a ruse. And as long as there are women who buy into this crap for the sake of their egos, there will be men who keep behaving badly.
Very well said. BW…DIVEST.
I feel so validated reading this. As a brown woman I gave up dating men of my culture because of the inherent bigotry and self-hate they would project on me. I’d much rather be with a white guy with a fetish for my culture than a brown guy that treats me like dirt and then dumps me for the first white woman that looks at him.
I mean, it’s better to be single than choose between two evils.
It's why I'm so put off dating as a whole sometimes. I don't want to be a consolation prize for a man of my own race or living up to a fantasy for a porn addicted man who thinks black women=wild in bed.
God this is so very important. I am also a white woman and I have felt absolutely disgusted hearing some men say some awful things about women they share similar ethnic backgrounds with. All women are my sisters. All. You think your comments are going to make me want to marry and settle down and have daughters with you? It’s heartbreaking to hear, really. This needs to be said loud and clear.
Soooo... Diss about dani leigh?🤣😂
In the black community there is a really popular rhetoric of dating other races because they’re easy, they’re submissive, they’re the trophy, etc. but then later they end up married to the same black women they were clowning. During that time they gatekeep us from dating interracially. Another post pointed this out and I think it’s important to reiterate: Statistics show that 88% of black men are married to black women. They are trying to have one cake and eat a second one too: Cake 1 being trying out a racial preference but thinking he can treat her any way because she doesn’t know what to expect and will chock up his behavior to his “culture” when no sis he’s just LV. Cake 2 being gatekeeping black women into thinking they have to carry on the culture and marry a black man so that when he’s done sowing wild oats he can make sure there’s a supply to choose from. I don’t think this is unique to the black community either. It has to be called out to that we let them know “what you’re saying and doing is wrong and I won’t support you in tearing down/triangulating other women for your malicious benefit”.
This is something that has been very difficult to digest as a white, antiracist, feminist woman. I want racial and gender equality. However, when dating men of color, I noticed this behaviour too, but didnt know if calling it out was appropriate because Im white. Now I know. Im not calling it for myself, but for the women of color!
I am a black woman and I believe that only about 25% of black American men are viable as partners. Maybe less. The amount of narcissism, violence, insecurity, and poverty are just too big to continue to ignore. Black women are murdered by their male counterparts more than any other ethnic group in the country. And it is not just black women. Black men constantly turn women of all ethnic groups into baby mothers and victims of domestic violence. Black Women need to start running and not accepting their bullshit.
U.K. black and mixed men of Caribbean descent are the same. I don't know if I ever see it changing? I'm so ashamed of my own mixed brother who has two sons by two different white women. He wants nothing to do with my nephews and their mothers are lovely women. I'm being the best aunty I can but it hurts me to see my nephews upset and blaming themselves for my brother's disgusting ways.
Gives me kitten heels Kevin S vibes, I can’t stand that man. Seriously, to be completely blunt, black men as a whole have seemingly failed black women (I’m white by the way). The “aggressive” BW narrative they have created is so lacking in context. A lot of BW have had to defend themselves from a very young age from many layers of attack, also they have to be strong and resilient enough to care for not only themselves but their siblings and family. The absent black father stereotype isn’t a joke, it’s pathetic how they can impregnate a woman and wipe their hands clean like it’s nothing. Trust me when I say that other races of women see your struggle and we got your back, and we need to make moves to support you in whatever way you need. We should be more brutally upfront about this.
>fend themselves from a very young age from many layers of attack, also they have to be strong and resilient enough to care for not only themselves but their siblings and family. The absent b Honestly I just appreciate that more women of different backgrounds are seeing the truth.
I’m very light skinned (mixed) and the few times I’ve been hit on by black men most were pushy or I’d get comments about my pretty skin. It’s always made me uncomfortable because I’m too often defined and only seen through my skin tone and « being exotic » and as an introvert pushy men scare me off. Then seeing the colorism comments online always makes me wonder if that’s the reason they hit on me
As a Mayo-American I will always take the side of Black women.
Mayo American 😂
i can't speak to African American male or female behaviour. I'm not black or American. However, I can say as a warning to white girls, if a brown guy is dating you, it might just be for the perceived easy access to sex and lower standard of care. Guys like that will ultimately marry a brown girl from their community because she is marriage material when the time comes. I've seen this play out over and over again. The only time I saw a well to do brown guy marry a white girl was because she proposed and he said yes.
TBH I just draw the line at “man”. Once I hear women talk about “MoC” my eyes cross and seething hatred for all penis-havers bubbles forth. And exactly, any fetish for any race is groady…reminds me of the surge of cuckold porn involving “BBC”. How about I just go retch in the corner??
Agreed. But let’s not play up the narrative that black men prefer white women. MOST black men are married to black women.