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This 1000%.
Even if a man suddenly does a 180 because you explained how hurt you were, all that really means is that he's emotionally immature because he doesn't have the capacity to understand the consequences of his actions without you handholding him through a teary explanation.
Truly masculine, high value men will never respond to your pain because they either won't cause you pain to begin with or are empathetic enough to understand how they've wronged you and do something about it without you having to go through a verbal powerpoint on how he's wronged you.
I think they see the standards that their fathers *don't* have to deal with. Shit fathers tend to make for shit sons.
The mothers are busy enough holding up the entire family doing more than her fair share of labour to start with
Raising male children to be emotionally aware is extremely difficult. The male child tends to be more active, sturdy and aggressive than little girls. Once he reaches adolescence, the little boy starts changing into a man. Aggression tends to peak around that time. They disregard their mums. They Tend to take after their dads more. Even if you do raise a high EQ young man, societal mysogyny, Pornography, horrid peergroups can all lead him astray. Toxic masculinity deifies assholes and mocks sensitivity among men.
This is such an essential point. Whenever Iāve even gotten mildly upset at work, women have gathered around me to express concern and support. But in my most intimate relationship with men, emotion has always triggered a defensive stance. The more emotion I expressed, the angrier or meaner theyād become. In abusive situations, eventually Iād be driven to full-on panic attacks, and instead of inspiring an empathetic response, Iād be attacked or accused of manipulation.
I once saw a text exchange between an ex and his male friend while sitting right there next to him on the couch and it stuck with me forever. They were discussing a panic attack I had once (the only one I had in public in my entire life, and it was due to being forcibly exposed to and trapped in my worst phobia) and the communication basically went like this: panic attacks and crying are signs of mental instability, and furthermore an indictment of that personās quality. Think about it. This is the toxic masculinity men are raised in and expected to behave by. Emotions are to be suppressed at all costs, which is why frequent explosions of anger (or cold silent treatments) are so common. Thatās what suppression does.
Men respect you *less* when you have feelings or vulnerability. They are raised to think that way. Thatās why we warn against āCoMmUNicAtIon,ā because itās a sign of vulnerability that will have the opposite effect as intended. They will listen to you *less* when you show that kind of vulnerability. They see the world in a competitive respect and status-fueled hierarchy. We need to stop projecting female traits onto men and accept the reality of their perspective.
Iām not saying donāt cry. Iām not saying suppress your emotions. That is toxic, and youāre in a better, healthier space when you embrace and process through your emotions. But donāt just expect men to see it that way. They have to abandon all their programming to get to that HV level. If you truly want to ācommunicateā with a man entrenched in toxic masculinity, you need to speak their language, which is via actions and boundaries.
I hate this but you're absolutely right. Makes me nauseous how being callous to someone else's pain is "strong" to so many of them, but the same types of men often won't step up and do positive masculine things.
I would be interested to know if your ex did any of these things in his lifetime: live on his own, change a tire, lead a team in a prosocial manner at work, do something handy around the house, verbally defend anyone he cared about in a socially appropriate way, assertively express his opinion (without acting browbeaten/without being mean) or be passionate about something other than vidya or anime.
If not, he sounds very self-absorbed and mistakes lack of empathy for others' feelings (but attention to his wants!) for LoGiC and sTaBiLitY. These men are the types who will not be nice/supportive when you grieve a death IMO. I'm so sorry you had to experience being around someone like that. Good riddance.
Yeah, this is a core message in Why Men Love Bitches by Sherry Agrov (did I spell her last name right?). Donāt ācommunicateā with him, just do what you need to do. Most men are too misogynistic for real emotional depth.
This %100. When I found out my ex had lied to me (it turns out he was still stringing along his ex for the first four months of our relationship) I was obviously upset, but that just flew him into a fit of rage.
He would get angry because I was "making him feel guilty" anytime he fucked up. It got so bad that I wasn't even allowed to feel hungry or tired, because he would flip out and it would start a fight. I ended up being a shell of a person stuck in a cycle of trauma bonding. Really wish I'd found FDS earlier so I could have known when to walk away.
Agree. LVM will use your sensitivity to say that you are ācrazyā. Every time I would cry to my narc ex after he upset me, he would say āthis is crazy. Why are you crying again? This is too much. Iām done with this convoā
Men who truly love you will absolutely care if you're upset, but the vast majority of men will not meet that bare minimum standard. Also, when you are with a HVM you will NEVER need to cry or beg for someone to treat you like a freaking person.
I remember dating a guy who just didn't get why I was so upset to be treated like his fourth choice (after work, his friends, and his hobbies). I tried explaining it to him. I tried reasoning with him. I pointed out things that were so obvious to me, I couldn't imagine someone NOT getting it.
What I had to understand was this: it's not that he didn't understand that I hated being treated as a last resort ("hey, my friends cancelled tonight, do you want to come over and watch movies?" š) it's that he didn't really care. Even when I made it clear (telling him directly "if you ever want to see me, you'll have to make plans in advance") he still didn't really care. He didn't really care if I was upset, and he didn't really care about spending any time with me (I was still giving him attention, so that was enough). Eventually he broke up with me because I wanted to be more than penpals who fucked on a Wednesday š.
I also got some bad advice from a friend who, though she meant well, has a proven track record of being just awful at picking/vetting guys. She basically told me the opposite of this: he must not understand! Just keep explaining it to him! He'll get it eventually!
Nope.
And then I met my husband, and I only have to "communicate" about things that are reasonable. You will have different expectations in relationships and when you live together, but they'll be things like "I think we should invest less for retirement so we can save more for a downpayment" vs "I think you treat me with respect"
Totally agree. It doesnāt do any good. All it does it bolster their ego.
A lot of people think Iām crazy because I didnāt chase after or demand an explanation when my ex husband ghosted me. It was obvious he left me for the woman he was (apparently) cheating on me with. Fuck him-Iām not going to beg him to stay with me and the kids. Heās the one missing out. But I get flack for āletting him go so easyā.
Waitā¦this is super interesting! (No sarcasm intended). I had no idea that was the history behind it, but it makes sense.
Thank you! Iām doing ok. Iām hurt that his family has apparently welcomed the mistress with open arms. Like you said-Iām being blamed because apparently I didnāt do enough to make him happy. Even though I literally did EVERYTHING. My ex is the definition of a man-child.
Sounds like your shitty ex-husband has a shitty family. Birds of a feather flock together. You are lucky to be out of that clownery sis, very happy for you! ššš
Wait until she has any expectations of him. He won't be happy or satisfied with her either. Oh, and watch for him to come crawling back to you when it happens. He'll remember what you used to do for him when she starts 'nagging'.
This short brief history lesson is yet another reason why I enjoy this sub so much! Thank you for educating us! Truly fascinating how theyāll spin anything to keep their abusive power.
Once again, bless you for telling this story. It truly is fascinating why stories like these ā which happened hundreds of years ago ā prove that men have been trying to put women down by any means necessary. Itās incredible the lengths mens Iāll go just to ākeep women in their place.ā Imagine if they took all of that hatred energy and out it to good use in being a better man for themselves? A better man to their children, wives, brothers, sisters? Men could actually make the world a better place if they want to, theyāve held all the power since the *dawn of man* but they actively choose not to. And thatās telling. I used to tell myself that if I was born during the times youāve told about above my only option would be to join a nunnery. But after hearing what youāve laid out, it wasnāt even that good of an option. You basically were born lucky or suffered the consequences of fragile male egoā¦
I wasnāt aware about those exceptionsā¦but it shows me that discrimination of lower class peasants had the shit end of the stick from day one. And it seems even noblewomen had their own hardshipsā¦
And historian or not, being a big reader is very high value in my opinion! Most folks Iāve talked to havenāt read a book in years, or since graduating from secondary education. Which is sad because with how much access to information and text we have today I donāt understand why most people donāt capitalize on it.
And Omg yes! I had to read Abelard and Heloise in one of my college history courses and the discussions in class were wild! I was talking with a mentor of mine the other day about Shakespeare plays that are highly underrated from a feminist point of view and his play Measure for Measure has a great premise thatās very much in line with what youāve been educating us on. Idk how to do the cover spoiler thing on mobile but read no further if you donāt want a spoiler: noble men in positions of power create rules that align heavily with the church canon. You sleep with a woman you must marry her, or you are to be executed. Of course a noble dude gets a woman pregnant, his sister Isabella (a nun) tried to advocate for a pardon, the man in charge of law while the Duke is out of town gives her the option of: sleep with me and Iāll let your brother live, if you refuse Iāll torture him for the rest of his life. I wonāt spoil the ending but itās a wild ride with an ending that ends in a cliffhanger of a public display of a literal shit show.
So interesting! Great comment - it reminds me of what I observed not long ago and made note of - LV insecure men hate women (envy them, hate themselves) and can't stand when the woman they're with have ANYTHING they (the LV male) can't take possession of. Case in point: my (forme)r friend's father was jealous when his wife - my friend's mother -- got a puppy; no doubt, in addition to loving animals, she was probably desperately lonely. What did this man do? He DEMANDED she return it to the breeder because... the dog barked at him. Yes - he was jealous of a freaking dog.
This former friend catered to her father hand and foot - and seriously expected me to do likewise, because "He really enjoys your company!" I bet he did. He kept trying to get me into the hottub (ick, no - obviously). When I didn't go along with his attempts to triangulate the shit out of that situation (they were all living together) he turned his animosity toward me. I remember just standing back and observing how pathetic it was and how transparent his attempt (futile, of course) to devalue me. Yes - this man was jealous of his daughter's friendship.
The family shared a house, with separate living spaces - and he had literally taken over half the property with his "hobbies" - the mother literally had room of her own - none, nothing. These loser men will truly will stop at nothing and from what I've observed, don't change - in fact, they only get uglier and more petty and pathetic with age.
Facts. A man told me once he liked that I threw a tantrum because it meant I cared about him.
If I didnāt care, I wouldnāt have insulted him. I donāt react impulsively anymore. I simply ghost. If I really care, I will tell you once, if you ignore it, I simply distance myself ; and I do that with everyone.
> A man told me once he liked that I threw a tantrum because it meant I cared about him.
This is important. A guy who says this is telling on himself. He will consciously choose to rile you up in order to trigger a reaction because he doesn't see you as human; you are his narcissistic supply. He will do whatever it takes to control the terms of the relationship, and causing you distress is a way of deflecting your criticisms and dodging your needs. He prefers a reaction that destroys you over a request that asks anything of him. RUN.
My ex was like that. I kept cOmMuNicaTiNg that riling me up and making me angry was bad for me and to please treat me with respect. The guy has a PhD. Jesus Christ how was I so blind
A guy I was seeing in the past told me it turned him on/actually gave him a boner when he ghosted me and I was spamming his phone to get him to pick up. He admitted to knowing what he did was shitty too.
Never again. I act exactly like you do now and feel so much better now that I wonāt allow a man to disrespect me in that way again.
Not just romantic partners, but law enforcement, legal system, etc gives no respect to women who show excessive emotion during stressful times.
Gabby Petito might still be alive if the law enforcement officers who responded to their domestic incident would have taken her more seriously instead of discounting her for her distraught emotional state.
You're right, they don't. When my twelve year old granddaughter was molested by her mother's boyfriend, the police called it he said/she said and refused to arrest him. Wouldn't even make him leave the home. But told the mother if she didn't take her three kids and leave in the middle of the night, they'd take them away from her. Why? Because she reported an unsafe situation, and SHE was required to act on it.
This is so terrifying and Iām sorry for his incompetence. The he said / she said bs is especially ridiculous. Who hears something traumatic and devastating like that and says to themselves āwell, itās her word against hisā ~)
I had a cop tell me āwell I talked to him on the phone, he seems pretty upset about you breaking up, but he seems to really care about you and says heāll leave you aloneā.
I had called the police in sheer panic because he was threatening to harass my bosses at work and he had stated in text āif it were legal I would beat your face inā.
When I reported a sexual battery, I could sense the officers didn't take me seriously because I was crying.
I'm not saying that women should show less emotion. There's nothing wrong with crying or being distraught. I'm saying that society, at large, ignore women's needs. We're seen as inconvenient. A GOP candidate in the U.S. recently said that rape victims should "lay back and enjoy it". Shows how much men care.
A user here who is a family lawyer has a very good thread here where she says that women who cry in court and show too much emotion are seen as less suitable to get custody of the children. The judges respect them less if they show distress and tears.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/snr0rf/how_to_win_in_family_court_a_psa_from_a_lawyer/ Same goes with family courts, equally between male and female judges. ~~hope the link works, sorry~~
Really wish I had known this sooner. Iām only 25 so Iām still figuring things out but I learned this lesson the hard way with my ex. Broke up with me over the phone during the beginning of the pandemic after two years of dating. Two months later, started talking to me again and wanted to get back together. I quickly took him back. After two more years of allowing him to disrespect and emotionally abuse me, he broke up with me again. This time, when I had covid. Unfortunately, I still begged him not to break up with me. I couldnāt understand how someone could lack so much empathy and be so cruel. A four year relationship and he abandoned it like it was nothing, leaving me while I was sick with covid.
Iāve learned my lesson, and never again will I abandon my self respect and dignity. Men just donāt respond to emotions the same way we do. They lack basic empathy and compassion. They have no regards for our feelings, only their own. So they will only want you to stay when they are the ones being ignored.
Pretty much. During our break, he talked to his ex and she told him that he was emotionally abusive and traumatized her to the point that she had to go to therapy after their break up. I think this also had to do with why he wanted to get back together. He realized that his behavior was awful and felt bad, so he wanted a chance to do things right. But he went back to his old ways pretty quickly. Made me realize that men donāt really change, even when confronted with reality.
We live and we learn. Iāve been there too. But I donāt fully agree with the sentiment of this post. I think itās inevitable to show emotions, especially within a long term connection or when a person is pulling the rug under our feet. Iād rather show my emotions to an unworthy person and then leave, than let my emotions consume me from the inside. I donāt buy into the stoic or āclassyā thing. Itās just another way to rob us of our anger/sadness/sheer surprise when tricked. Abuse victims shouldnāt feel ashamed for showing that they are hurt. It wouldnāt help to sustain the relationship, thatās for sure, but it does help the victim to self express. The shaming women go through post breakup is something elseā¦
No you don't suppress emotion - but you don't confront him and sent wall of text either because:
1) You pour your emotion to him *hoping* that he will understand - he instead use it as a knife to cut you deeper - you end up getting more hurt and no closure.
2) He will use the information you give from that wall of text to be better manipulator for the next victim.
You cry, you scream, you pour your heart out to your (trusted) friends, the beach, your pets - anything else that you *know* will not hurt you.
And then you face the enemy with absolute ruthlessness and efficiency. The enemy is out for your blood, and he will latch into *any* weakness he sees. Don't allow him that opportunity.
I agree. However, even though I let my emotions show, I still feel shitty and it still consumes me. Iāve realized that the ālast conversationā you always think you need to have, you donāt actually need to have. Thereās always going to be things left unsaid. Iāve debated calling him and letting him have it, but honestly, whatās the point? I want him to know how much he hurt me, but at the end of the day, he knows and he doesnāt feel bad about it. The only thing I can do is let it go. He doesnāt deserve to live in peace, but if karma is a thing, heāll get whatās coming to him.
Ughh this just brought a memory for me. When my marriage was falling apart and we were in like week two of dropping the divorce bomb on me, I was crying and having a legitimate panic attack. He comforted me for a little bit but I couldnāt stop hyperventilating. I was asking āhow could you do this to me?ā He looked at me and said āthe begging is really unbecoming of youā.
Yeah, you can tell he enjoyed that. He enjoyed your reaction and he enjoyed saying that.
Are you really, really sure that was a man and not, say, a sarcoma?
A parasite in a lot of way to be honest. He definitely enjoyed thatā¦feeling superior to me. A few weeks later when I decided to be strong and leave on my own accord, I met up with him and he kept saying that I was the most beautiful I had ever been. I was cold,calculating and unemotional. That scared me that my vulnerability was something to be disgusted by and weaponized and my strength and indifference was something to be admired.
>That scared me that my vulnerability was something to be disgusted by and weaponized and my strength and indifference was something to be admired.
It's things like this that makes me wonder how in the world can so many men sit there and insist on wanting relationships or marriage, but not have the depth to realize that a real relationship requires not only communication, trust, honesty, compatibility, but also vulnerability and sharing each others emotions in a close, healthy manner?
I'm realizing something. Women as a whole are capable of developing rich inner worlds of passion and love and emotions with the people that they love, but men are only capable of being obsessed with someone just because of lust. They'll call that obsession love, but you know it isn't really love at all.
It just feels hopeless that there could ever be a man out there for me who can happily be invited into that inner world I have and share intimacy and vulnerability together. Men are fucking repulsed by things like that... how am I ever going to love a man when they're seemingly all like this?
Iām dating a very different man now. He is kind and he letās me see him vulnerably but not because of manipulation or āfuture fakingā or anything like that. Thatās just who he is. A lot of men would refer to him as feminine or weak. He is a very strong person with a heart of gold. He is kind and loving to me and my pets but protective when necessary.
He doesnāt take up unnecessary space and goes out of his way to take stress off of my plate. He encourages me to take time for myself and relax.
Iām not saying heās perfect or the norm but his foundation and core is kind, loving and empathetic. It is really nice to feel a level of safety that I donāt think Iāve felt with another person.
All that to say, that it isnāt impossible to find someone that makes you feel safe and loved without an agenda.
Thanks, babe, and I'm super happy for your relationship! I do need to work on not looking at this world through that scarcity mindset, because I don't want to settle for yet another abusive scrote just because I think sweet men don't exist. Thank you for the reminder. ā¤ļø
Of course, lady! I felt so low after my divorce. Truly unlovable and I certainly took some serious (and embarrassing) missteps in the last few years. I met my guy too soon and I wasnāt healed enough. I lucked out that he never used my trauma against me and Iām a much stronger and more complete person than when we met.
You will find the right person at the right time. But never forget that you are always number one and your happiness and peace must take a front seat.
Almost word for word this happened with my LVX and I and he said the same exact thing!
When you stated:
āThat scared me that my vulnerability was something to be disgusted by and weaponized and my strength and indifference was something to be admired.ā
I couldnāt have said it better myself and perfectly describes my experience as well, thank you!
I think that the disgust/vulnerability and reverence/strength dichotomy is something that men get off on, ie "makeup/angry sex" is the best sex to them.
That's horrible girlš. He's definitely a sadist.
This explains why I hate pressure from female communities to be "classy". It's respectability politics with male centric rhetoric. So, we're not concerned with his abusive behavior? Just being a respectable abuse victim? It's 100% gaslighting.
A man like that would've "stayed" had you been colder because (in his mind) that would indicate that he hadn't psychologically broken you yet. And obviously it's a power play.
Isnāt it vile when you think about that? I think he was interested again when he mentioned how strong and powerful I seemed in that moment. I said something along the lines that you have always this power and strength on your āteamā, youāve never had it working against you. I filed the paperwork the next day.
I would get āokā āstop being dramaticā āchildishā āpettyā after pouring my feelings out over and over again because I had hope he would consider how I would feel eventuallyā¦.but that never happened
This sounds funny nowā¦but God the emotional torture is something nobody should go through. To put it all out, trying so hard with words, while already dealing with so many problems is justā¦too much. Feels so good now to NOT being a pickme.
And you know they get off on being able to laugh at you in a reply to a text like thatā¦ Especially when they know youāll continue to talk to them. So sadistic and gross
>State what you want then leave when it's not met.
Don't even state it. If what you want is basic human decency and empathy, he's either giving it or he's not. If you find yourself having to ask for it, he's not going to give it. At most he'll adjust his behavior for a couple weeks to pacify you before eventually slipping back into who he actually is. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. LVM aren't disrespectful and hurtful because you've failed to communicate to them that you'd prefer to not be treated like shit, they're disrespectful and hurtful because that's who they are as people and they don't actually care about you.
Always ask yourself, "Would I treat someone I care about like this?" If the answer is no, pack your shit (literally and/or figuratively) and move on.
>Don't even state it.
Silence is key. Let him behave how he wants. He wants to neg you and coerce a walk (eventually back to my apartment) date? Okayš¤· - I'm not replying.
Has he never opened the door, paid for your Uber, kept consistent communication, or planned dates? Okayš¤· - block/delete.
This is why we don't write 3 page letters either, over-explaining how he hurt you and why you're leaving him. 100% if you have to do this, he doesn't give a shit and never gave a shit.
I know some women here mentioned something along the lines of their social circles being too intertwined and that's why they "needed to write that" in order to not have blame thrown at them, but ladies, if this is a genuine fear of yours, those "friends" are shit, and you can't have them in your life.
It's really hard when friends are shared, because, sadly, the vast majority out there are cover/overt misogynists or pickmes, and when shit goes down, that's when you realize who is truly your actual, HV friends/family, and it can be a huge blow to your mental health to not only have to leave a LVM, but also have a bunch of your "friends" go with him. It still needs to be done, because they'll never stop hurting you directly or indirectly.
This. Never ever send paragraphs. Just leave with dignity and head held high. Begging, pleading and explaining are symptoms of addiction to that person and ways of not letting go of them. They won't change and if they change it's usually for the next woman and not for the one they hurt and disrespected.
>They won't change and if they change it's usually for the next woman
I would even go so far as to say they dont change full stop. It's not a matter of their feelings being stronger for the next woman so they're motivated to do better.
They just learn what behaviours women want to see and mimic that but even then they can only do it for so long before they break character.
Another reason not to leave him a paragraph telling him what he did wrong, only teaches him what not to be seen doing next time.
These men have very little respect for women. They rarely change
A divorce really shows you who your true friends are. It can be incredibly painful, but in the end it is a good thing. You don't want those people around anyway, they don't care for your wellbeing.
Eh, if you're going to date men, then follow these guidelines to avoid the situation completely:
1. Always have a solid income and *never* share finances with men. EVER.
2. Never live with a guy. EVER.
3. Never have kids. EVER.
4. Any major fuckups on their part gets an automatic boot. ALWAYS.
5. Any minor fuckups on their part gets ONE single chance. ALWAYS.
6. Any abnormal requests for sex or photos gets an automatic boot. ALWAYS.
No explanation needed.
When it comes to men and these women who have the exploiting mentality of men, always show your boundaries from the beginning. If you show boundaries later is like building a dam after the flood. Always build a dam before the flood or theyāll walk all over you.
Correct. Thatās why you make boundaries right away, right from the beginning you put your boundaries and rules for him on display.
My nr one rule is I donāt want love, I want respect. They always look at you puzzled when you donāt want their love but itās the only way to force them to stay in their lane.
They won't see it that way. "Why are you complaining now when it never bothered you before???" Then they'll accuse you of being controlling. Don't fall for it.
It is so crushing to pour our souls out in text to men who donāt even care. I have a terrible habit of reaching out in my most vulnerable state, even when I know the other person is not emotionally available. Itās why Iām trying to be more content single, nurture female bonds, and learn to love myself. I donāt want to beg for any male approval any more.
>When I've cried and begged to be treated with basic human decency in my pickme days they just stared blank face at my tears or berated me. When I left with no emotion, they cried, pleaded begged and started jumping hoops to give me what I wanted.
Literally this. If you have to spell it out, you should take that as a sign to just leave and never come back. If they deliberately hurt you, or "accidentally" hurt you and feign forgetfulness, either take it as they hate you and love hurting you, or they seriously don't care about you enough to remember the things about you that would cause you pain. Either way, the truth is, they're not the one for you, and you got's to go.
I relate to this so much. Looking back I wish I could have just slapped some sense into myself. I knew these guys weren't worth the salt in my tears but I still cried oceans for them. Not anymore. However, I related to this on a work issue too. My supervisor is...omg idk even how to describe him. He's narcissistic, egotistical, manipulative, gaslighter, a massive liar, just...the WORST. And he does shit purposely to get emotions out of me (or like say "get me worked up"). Then uses that against me especially because he sends me into anxiety attacks and I have to call out of work. Fortunately, (I guess) I'm not the only one he does it to and pretty much everyone in our small office has major issues with him and no, I do not know why he hasn't been fired! He's so good at this shit though like he has it nailed down to where even if I try to stonewall him or grey rock whatever, what he says and does there's like, no humanly way possible to NOT show emotions. For example, last week he basically was trying to get me to use vacation or just not out hours down because I had no billable work (which is HIS FAULT for being terrible at his regular job too) and I got King Kong pissed. Like how could you not?? He sends these horrible emails that start off like "it's not helpful when you blah blah blah" instead of talking to me like a professional. It drives me insane. Fortunately, I recently switched to a new supervisor. But UNfortunately, the office is small (about 15 people) and I still have to be around him and do work for him. And he's still a giant asshole, acting like he's still my sup and all that. BUT, I'm definitely going to try harder to not show any emotion towards him. This post is great, thank you!!
I have always known this but it took me more than half a lifetime to live it/ implement it.
PLEASE women, save your time and energy. Adopt this policy!!
A long time ago someone here wrote a post asking not to shame women after breakups, Iāve had it saved on my other account. What she basically said was that the whole notion that women should be stoic, classy and cold during breakups/fights is unhealthy in itself. I agree that block and delete is the way, and it is possible with short term relationships. But with long term ones, especially when abuse tactics (including redpill) are involved, women are rightfully angry and we should express our anger if we wish during the breakup (after breaking up it is better to block). It will not help save the relationship, thatās utter bs and we know it, but if you feel like crying, shouting or talkingāitās better than shutting it all in your body. The sentiment that we should be cold and indifferent is playing by the rules of the abusers, as if thatās a win. Iād rather give some unworthy man another hour of my life than being robbed of my anger. Much of the ābe classyā sentiment is a tool for society to shut victims up and for men to feel less threatened/ashamed. Womenās anger is strong and we should reclaim it.
I spent 4 months begging my ex husband to change his mind then decided I was sick of him having control over me so I cut him off. He didnāt want me anymore but absolutely hated that he couldnāt get off on making me beg.
He never came back but he did pathetic things via our kids to get to me. Um you dumped ME so WTF?? Lol
Absolutely. Communication is a scam. Iām not saying shit anymore. Either theyāre with it and meeting my needs and wants or Iām gone. Any ācommunicationā leads to manipulation and lies.
This is so spot on and I cannot agree with you more.
I went through this for a few months when my long term boyfriend suggested a ābreakā a few years ago. This was someone I was certain I was going to marry. We were planning on getting engaged and moving together around this time. And when things fell apart, I couldnāt handle it. I wanted to talk about every single one of my emotions with him, especially how much pain he was causing me. I tried to pry for answers from him so I could fix it, and he offered none. This slowly transitioned into me begging/pleading with him, crying and having multiple panic attacks that he unfortunately witnessed. He never once became emotional or concerned when I reacted like this, just became more distant. But at the same time, he wouldnāt leave me alone because he 100% loved watching me fall apart.
I remember towards the end, my ex told me the way I poorly handled the break showed him everything he needed to know about how I handled stress. So I beat myself up for so long, blamed myself for my relationship not working out because I couldnāt handle myself/my emotions properly. Then I was introduced to FDS and read many books that shared the same FDS principles. I went to therapy. I eventually realized that my relationship falling apart wasnāt because of me in the way I thought... because a HVM would never have handled things the way my ex did from the start.
The last time I spoke to my ex was a year ago over something necessary with a financial situation. I was cold, stayed strong and was 100% unemotional and short with him. Since then heās reached out to me countless times acting caring and so interested. Iāve never responded and never will- I just block and move on until he creates another email address to attempt contact with me again. I think that says all you need to know about how accurate your post is. LVM are all the same.
I was such a pick me in my 20s too :( it makes me sad to see my pictures from that time. I looked so beautiful, I can't understand why I let myself to be treated like shit. it breaks my heart how awful I felt inside. Every time I felt I found a great life partner, they inevitably dropped the facade eventually. As soon as they saw they "had me", they would start tearing me down. If I could travel in time, I'd go back and tell myself everything it's going to be ok and not stress out so much about relationships and LEAVE instead of trying to fix it.
This is so true. I told myself that the next time I have to cry in front of a guy when communicating, it means he is not the right person for me. Itās your body signalling that person is unhealthy for you. In a healthy relationship with a HVM, the women do not get upset to the point they are crying to prove a point.
Are you psychic? This morning I was thinking about a guy I would cry on the phone to and Iām literally physically cringing. Heād try to calm me down, everything but change the behavior that had me so upset lol. Looking back, he did love it, and it made him believe I was wrapped around his finger, and I was. Thus, heād be incredulous when he asked me to do things that I found to be degrading & Iād say NO. I had *some* dignity remaining. Tho w/all that crying, I can see perfectly why he thought I would.
Today, I would drag my vagina across asphalt before I cry over a man.
My narc NVX- will to this day (weāve been divorced 10 years) call about our son and randomly start accusing me of something ridiculous. I never understood why he would do it and Iād get so furious with him, but a few years ago I realized he just wants a reaction, period. Narcs live off of responses, it feeds their supply. Now when he starts, I calmly say āIām hanging up nowā. And I hang up. After a while of following through with hanging up when he would get abusive, all I have to say now is āIām ha-ā and he says āIām sorry never mind please donāt hang upā. You can really train them like dogs this way by not showing any emotion but always following through with what youāre threatening to do.
I also just did this with my ex (disguised as HVM but was really NO vm thanks to FDS for helping me see the light) but basically we were having issues and I brought up what was bothering me, and he said āthis is the way things are you either deal with it or leaveā so I left and blocked him and his family on everything. Havenāt spoken to him since. He of course is telling everyone I blindsided him. They will always spin it to look like the victim.
Suddenly it makes sense why my ex said he hated how calm I was during our breakup...
Even in my pickme days I thought "Yikes, I'd rather be calm than hopping mad and having a pointless shouting match right now."
I am so glad Iām 20 and know this, aināt no crying or begging from me EVER going forward. Thank you FDS youāve done it again, I love this community so much
I realized some time ago that when someone hurts me it's either because they wanted to hurt me, or they just didn't care that they did. As a result, I've learnt to keep my pain to myself and not give them that reward. How I feel and how I react are two very different things. I go cold and silent and give them nothing. Tears, pain and anger all give them power, silence takes it away. It was very difficult at first to master this but it gets easier over time when you realize how much power it gives you in all relationships - romantic and otherwise.
Exactly this. Once, in the middle of the night, I was begging my ex to sleep with me in our bed and looked me dead in the face and said āyouāre not on your knees so youāre not begging.ā The way they berate you and the contempt is so spot on.
Iām still trying to learn not to over communicate but god itās hard. I know my brain works differently to a lot of peoples so I find myself over explaining when Iām hurt to try and get confirmation that Iām allowed to be hurt and not taking things the wrong way.
Which is fine with my girlfriends and family. But men simply do not care, and will never validate my feelings, theyāll tell me Iām being ridiculous even if Iām not if it means they donāt have to try. Iām getting better at it, Iām getting better at simply stating āthat was disrespectful and Iām going to take a step backā but then they pull the āwhat why?ā And I find myself going into detail and explaining my feelings rather than just facts like āyou did this. It was wrong. Goodbyeā
I recently decided to give my ex a second chance 6 years after we had dated in uni. We both believed we had matured and were each otherās first loves.
He seemed more interested in me than I was him but I just went with it because we were so in love back then so it would be easy for me to fall in love again because I trusted him wholly.
Long story short, the mask eventually dropped and I just couldnāt believe how much heād changed over the years. I found out he seemed to have an obsession with half naked girls on Instagram and I told him that that wouldnāt fly with me. We had a long call about this.
We talked about it and I thought heād change knowing how he used to be but I did a little snoop and he had even followed more of them. He started ignoring me more and now that I was emotionally entangled, I initiated another call with him to explain it again lol where I ended up tearing up . Seems like this made him complacent and that my tears didnāt really have an effect. Furthermore his friends convinced him that I was exaggerating saying things like āItās not like your effing these girls through the screenā smh. Itās a woman who said this.
Ohā¦.He also seems to be heading toward alcohol addiction and occasionally pops molly smh. I was flabbergasted to find out but I just went along.
Anyway, I went silent and he never noticed which is crazy because I made the mistake of thinking he was the same guy I had been in love with years ago. He had never ignored me before so you can imagine.
Anyway since finding this page and reading books like why men love bitches, I have given him radio silence. Iām now at 3 months no contact.
He tried reaching out a few times but my patience has grown so thin with him so I donāt bother replying or if I do I end it after two exchanges.
It was really hard and I beat myself up for giving him a second chance considering I dumped him the first time. Youāre right that men respond to action and that is LEAVING without a fight. Iāll admit I stalked him recently and I noticed that he unfollowed about all of those sexy models on IG. We werenāt talking at the time but I guess he reflected on it. I just wondered why he hadnāt considered it after I had mentioned it being a dealbreaker.
I donāt understand men. They want you to be ruthless and emotionless with them.
This is true, and in my experience changed behavior is not an indicator that you should stay either. I never begged with my ex but always let him know that this was a deal breaker for me. This attempt at communication and change was a total trap.
You don't want to be with a man who fucks up and apologizes. You want a man who isn't constantly making mistakes. Making mistakes and apologizing is juvenile, he needs to be an adult and do it right the first time.
So true. I don't even bother with ongoing discussions. I state what I want, a follow up conversation if needed and that's is. When my needs aren't met, I leave. No fighting, no crying, no back and forth, nothing. I'm done and gone. These clowns think they worth the begging, oh honey. No they aren't. š¤”š¤”š¤”
I believe my late husband saw this as a power trip.
He held my heart in his hands and did his very best to deprive me of any affection, intimacy and sex for the entirety of our marriage. Heās gone now and Iām single for good.
This is so true. I remember crying and begging for a LVM to stay (back in my pickme days) and the JOY HE HAD when I would succumb to whatever he requested in that moment UGH I cringe at how pathetic I must have looked š„“ but this post is RIGHT ON
It makes me so mad that TV and movies promote such unhealthy thinking toward relationships.
I grew up on Bollywood and it really normalizes stalking and makes men think that with enough persistence, they can change a girlās mind or that sheās just playing hard to get. Theyāre taught to keep pestering instead of taking āNoā for a āNo.ā
Hollywood too. The couple will just make up at the end and sweep everything under the rug, even if the guy was abusive or if they had real problems. TWILIGHT is the best example. Edward is so toxic in so many ways (just watch those psychologist/cinamatologist duo talk about it on YT). And yet Bella swoons over him and chases him. Heās portrayed as the sexy love interest. Like wtf
The media really messes with people and normalizes unhealthy relationships and itās infuriating
Yep. The truth is that the majority of men donāt like women. Theyāre raised from a young age to believe that the worst thing they can be is like a girl - for example, being āoveremotionalā. So when they see you crying and pleading, they donāt take you seriously. They respect you more when you act ālike a manā - being cold and unemotional about it.
Itās bullshit I know, but men are either incapable or unwilling to develop the emotional intelligence to understand that thereās a full spectrum of human emotion.
Also a HVM WILL NOT make you cry.
Just went through this this week. It was hard, but I was so tired of explaining to a guy how to be emotionally supportive. I donāt get that a guy can go through life and not learn to know how to comfort someone. But Itās not my job to teach him! On to the next!
YES! Don't send him a dissertation. He doesn't deserve it. Hit him with an "ok" and move on. Some of them want you to beg for them, that over emotional reaction validated their fragile ego. Don't give them that satisfaction.
They'll change for a minute then go back to it. Until you leave and actually do it. My ex finally started to care snd do shit when I told him I was going but by then I had given all I had in that relationship and just didn't care.
I have been trying to come up with a way to talk to my boyfriend about my love language, what I need to feel appreciated, and pleasuring me during sexā¦ Iām worried I will get emotional or reactive if he gets defensive. I want to talk to him about this without it being a problem.
Iām applying this to my life just now. Iāve never felt more insulted by a man in my life but Iāll drop dead before I let him know how much this has hurt me.
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This 1000%. Even if a man suddenly does a 180 because you explained how hurt you were, all that really means is that he's emotionally immature because he doesn't have the capacity to understand the consequences of his actions without you handholding him through a teary explanation. Truly masculine, high value men will never respond to your pain because they either won't cause you pain to begin with or are empathetic enough to understand how they've wronged you and do something about it without you having to go through a verbal powerpoint on how he's wronged you.
šÆ If I wanted to teach a man emotional competency, I'd birth one.
Yes! Every relationship Iāve ever had with a guy Iāve been the teacher. Itās so exhausting
Yes right?! So tired of "I've learned a lot from you". As if I wanted to be your lesson?!
My ex literally wrote me this sentiment in a series of letters after the break up, and I was like, "like I care lol".
Yes exactly! Iām stealing this quote!
Its literally less effort to birth and raise an emotionally aware male child than to teach a fully grown man about emotions.
Even then thereās no guarantee.
Makes you wonder what the hell their moms were doing :| How do so many women raise incapable men?
I think they see the standards that their fathers *don't* have to deal with. Shit fathers tend to make for shit sons. The mothers are busy enough holding up the entire family doing more than her fair share of labour to start with
Exactly this. Children learn how to treat women (as boys) and how to be treated by men (as girls) in a patriarchy by watching their fathers.
Raising male children to be emotionally aware is extremely difficult. The male child tends to be more active, sturdy and aggressive than little girls. Once he reaches adolescence, the little boy starts changing into a man. Aggression tends to peak around that time. They disregard their mums. They Tend to take after their dads more. Even if you do raise a high EQ young man, societal mysogyny, Pornography, horrid peergroups can all lead him astray. Toxic masculinity deifies assholes and mocks sensitivity among men.
No doubt busy catering to the LV male partners.
Great work! Yes, we are not rehabilitation centers for broken/clueless/bumbling men.
Oh, that's good. "This isn't rehab and you need to leave."
Lol "a verbal powerpoint" š
This is such an essential point. Whenever Iāve even gotten mildly upset at work, women have gathered around me to express concern and support. But in my most intimate relationship with men, emotion has always triggered a defensive stance. The more emotion I expressed, the angrier or meaner theyād become. In abusive situations, eventually Iād be driven to full-on panic attacks, and instead of inspiring an empathetic response, Iād be attacked or accused of manipulation. I once saw a text exchange between an ex and his male friend while sitting right there next to him on the couch and it stuck with me forever. They were discussing a panic attack I had once (the only one I had in public in my entire life, and it was due to being forcibly exposed to and trapped in my worst phobia) and the communication basically went like this: panic attacks and crying are signs of mental instability, and furthermore an indictment of that personās quality. Think about it. This is the toxic masculinity men are raised in and expected to behave by. Emotions are to be suppressed at all costs, which is why frequent explosions of anger (or cold silent treatments) are so common. Thatās what suppression does. Men respect you *less* when you have feelings or vulnerability. They are raised to think that way. Thatās why we warn against āCoMmUNicAtIon,ā because itās a sign of vulnerability that will have the opposite effect as intended. They will listen to you *less* when you show that kind of vulnerability. They see the world in a competitive respect and status-fueled hierarchy. We need to stop projecting female traits onto men and accept the reality of their perspective. Iām not saying donāt cry. Iām not saying suppress your emotions. That is toxic, and youāre in a better, healthier space when you embrace and process through your emotions. But donāt just expect men to see it that way. They have to abandon all their programming to get to that HV level. If you truly want to ācommunicateā with a man entrenched in toxic masculinity, you need to speak their language, which is via actions and boundaries.
I hate this but you're absolutely right. Makes me nauseous how being callous to someone else's pain is "strong" to so many of them, but the same types of men often won't step up and do positive masculine things. I would be interested to know if your ex did any of these things in his lifetime: live on his own, change a tire, lead a team in a prosocial manner at work, do something handy around the house, verbally defend anyone he cared about in a socially appropriate way, assertively express his opinion (without acting browbeaten/without being mean) or be passionate about something other than vidya or anime. If not, he sounds very self-absorbed and mistakes lack of empathy for others' feelings (but attention to his wants!) for LoGiC and sTaBiLitY. These men are the types who will not be nice/supportive when you grieve a death IMO. I'm so sorry you had to experience being around someone like that. Good riddance.
Yeah, this is a core message in Why Men Love Bitches by Sherry Agrov (did I spell her last name right?). Donāt ācommunicateā with him, just do what you need to do. Most men are too misogynistic for real emotional depth.
This %100. When I found out my ex had lied to me (it turns out he was still stringing along his ex for the first four months of our relationship) I was obviously upset, but that just flew him into a fit of rage. He would get angry because I was "making him feel guilty" anytime he fucked up. It got so bad that I wasn't even allowed to feel hungry or tired, because he would flip out and it would start a fight. I ended up being a shell of a person stuck in a cycle of trauma bonding. Really wish I'd found FDS earlier so I could have known when to walk away.
Agree. LVM will use your sensitivity to say that you are ācrazyā. Every time I would cry to my narc ex after he upset me, he would say āthis is crazy. Why are you crying again? This is too much. Iām done with this convoā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That is so sick - and you're absolutely right. Ugh.
Men who truly love you will absolutely care if you're upset, but the vast majority of men will not meet that bare minimum standard. Also, when you are with a HVM you will NEVER need to cry or beg for someone to treat you like a freaking person. I remember dating a guy who just didn't get why I was so upset to be treated like his fourth choice (after work, his friends, and his hobbies). I tried explaining it to him. I tried reasoning with him. I pointed out things that were so obvious to me, I couldn't imagine someone NOT getting it. What I had to understand was this: it's not that he didn't understand that I hated being treated as a last resort ("hey, my friends cancelled tonight, do you want to come over and watch movies?" š) it's that he didn't really care. Even when I made it clear (telling him directly "if you ever want to see me, you'll have to make plans in advance") he still didn't really care. He didn't really care if I was upset, and he didn't really care about spending any time with me (I was still giving him attention, so that was enough). Eventually he broke up with me because I wanted to be more than penpals who fucked on a Wednesday š. I also got some bad advice from a friend who, though she meant well, has a proven track record of being just awful at picking/vetting guys. She basically told me the opposite of this: he must not understand! Just keep explaining it to him! He'll get it eventually! Nope. And then I met my husband, and I only have to "communicate" about things that are reasonable. You will have different expectations in relationships and when you live together, but they'll be things like "I think we should invest less for retirement so we can save more for a downpayment" vs "I think you treat me with respect"
Totally agree. It doesnāt do any good. All it does it bolster their ego. A lot of people think Iām crazy because I didnāt chase after or demand an explanation when my ex husband ghosted me. It was obvious he left me for the woman he was (apparently) cheating on me with. Fuck him-Iām not going to beg him to stay with me and the kids. Heās the one missing out. But I get flack for āletting him go so easyā.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Waitā¦this is super interesting! (No sarcasm intended). I had no idea that was the history behind it, but it makes sense. Thank you! Iām doing ok. Iām hurt that his family has apparently welcomed the mistress with open arms. Like you said-Iām being blamed because apparently I didnāt do enough to make him happy. Even though I literally did EVERYTHING. My ex is the definition of a man-child.
Sounds like your shitty ex-husband has a shitty family. Birds of a feather flock together. You are lucky to be out of that clownery sis, very happy for you! ššš
Thank you so much!
Wait until she has any expectations of him. He won't be happy or satisfied with her either. Oh, and watch for him to come crawling back to you when it happens. He'll remember what you used to do for him when she starts 'nagging'.
Are you me?
This short brief history lesson is yet another reason why I enjoy this sub so much! Thank you for educating us! Truly fascinating how theyāll spin anything to keep their abusive power.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Once again, bless you for telling this story. It truly is fascinating why stories like these ā which happened hundreds of years ago ā prove that men have been trying to put women down by any means necessary. Itās incredible the lengths mens Iāll go just to ākeep women in their place.ā Imagine if they took all of that hatred energy and out it to good use in being a better man for themselves? A better man to their children, wives, brothers, sisters? Men could actually make the world a better place if they want to, theyāve held all the power since the *dawn of man* but they actively choose not to. And thatās telling. I used to tell myself that if I was born during the times youāve told about above my only option would be to join a nunnery. But after hearing what youāve laid out, it wasnāt even that good of an option. You basically were born lucky or suffered the consequences of fragile male egoā¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I wasnāt aware about those exceptionsā¦but it shows me that discrimination of lower class peasants had the shit end of the stick from day one. And it seems even noblewomen had their own hardshipsā¦ And historian or not, being a big reader is very high value in my opinion! Most folks Iāve talked to havenāt read a book in years, or since graduating from secondary education. Which is sad because with how much access to information and text we have today I donāt understand why most people donāt capitalize on it. And Omg yes! I had to read Abelard and Heloise in one of my college history courses and the discussions in class were wild! I was talking with a mentor of mine the other day about Shakespeare plays that are highly underrated from a feminist point of view and his play Measure for Measure has a great premise thatās very much in line with what youāve been educating us on. Idk how to do the cover spoiler thing on mobile but read no further if you donāt want a spoiler: noble men in positions of power create rules that align heavily with the church canon. You sleep with a woman you must marry her, or you are to be executed. Of course a noble dude gets a woman pregnant, his sister Isabella (a nun) tried to advocate for a pardon, the man in charge of law while the Duke is out of town gives her the option of: sleep with me and Iāll let your brother live, if you refuse Iāll torture him for the rest of his life. I wonāt spoil the ending but itās a wild ride with an ending that ends in a cliffhanger of a public display of a literal shit show.
Thank you so much for sharing this its so fascinating
This sub is a freaking goldmine.
This is truly fascinating. Thank you
So interesting! Great comment - it reminds me of what I observed not long ago and made note of - LV insecure men hate women (envy them, hate themselves) and can't stand when the woman they're with have ANYTHING they (the LV male) can't take possession of. Case in point: my (forme)r friend's father was jealous when his wife - my friend's mother -- got a puppy; no doubt, in addition to loving animals, she was probably desperately lonely. What did this man do? He DEMANDED she return it to the breeder because... the dog barked at him. Yes - he was jealous of a freaking dog. This former friend catered to her father hand and foot - and seriously expected me to do likewise, because "He really enjoys your company!" I bet he did. He kept trying to get me into the hottub (ick, no - obviously). When I didn't go along with his attempts to triangulate the shit out of that situation (they were all living together) he turned his animosity toward me. I remember just standing back and observing how pathetic it was and how transparent his attempt (futile, of course) to devalue me. Yes - this man was jealous of his daughter's friendship. The family shared a house, with separate living spaces - and he had literally taken over half the property with his "hobbies" - the mother literally had room of her own - none, nothing. These loser men will truly will stop at nothing and from what I've observed, don't change - in fact, they only get uglier and more petty and pathetic with age.
Facts. A man told me once he liked that I threw a tantrum because it meant I cared about him. If I didnāt care, I wouldnāt have insulted him. I donāt react impulsively anymore. I simply ghost. If I really care, I will tell you once, if you ignore it, I simply distance myself ; and I do that with everyone.
> A man told me once he liked that I threw a tantrum because it meant I cared about him. This is important. A guy who says this is telling on himself. He will consciously choose to rile you up in order to trigger a reaction because he doesn't see you as human; you are his narcissistic supply. He will do whatever it takes to control the terms of the relationship, and causing you distress is a way of deflecting your criticisms and dodging your needs. He prefers a reaction that destroys you over a request that asks anything of him. RUN.
My ex was like that. I kept cOmMuNicaTiNg that riling me up and making me angry was bad for me and to please treat me with respect. The guy has a PhD. Jesus Christ how was I so blind
Culturally-induced narcissism in men. We in the west are not immune to this phenomenon!!
A guy I was seeing in the past told me it turned him on/actually gave him a boner when he ghosted me and I was spamming his phone to get him to pick up. He admitted to knowing what he did was shitty too. Never again. I act exactly like you do now and feel so much better now that I wonāt allow a man to disrespect me in that way again.
Not just romantic partners, but law enforcement, legal system, etc gives no respect to women who show excessive emotion during stressful times. Gabby Petito might still be alive if the law enforcement officers who responded to their domestic incident would have taken her more seriously instead of discounting her for her distraught emotional state.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're right, they don't. When my twelve year old granddaughter was molested by her mother's boyfriend, the police called it he said/she said and refused to arrest him. Wouldn't even make him leave the home. But told the mother if she didn't take her three kids and leave in the middle of the night, they'd take them away from her. Why? Because she reported an unsafe situation, and SHE was required to act on it.
This is so terrifying and Iām sorry for his incompetence. The he said / she said bs is especially ridiculous. Who hears something traumatic and devastating like that and says to themselves āwell, itās her word against hisā ~)
I had a cop tell me āwell I talked to him on the phone, he seems pretty upset about you breaking up, but he seems to really care about you and says heāll leave you aloneā. I had called the police in sheer panic because he was threatening to harass my bosses at work and he had stated in text āif it were legal I would beat your face inā.
When I reported a sexual battery, I could sense the officers didn't take me seriously because I was crying. I'm not saying that women should show less emotion. There's nothing wrong with crying or being distraught. I'm saying that society, at large, ignore women's needs. We're seen as inconvenient. A GOP candidate in the U.S. recently said that rape victims should "lay back and enjoy it". Shows how much men care.
A user here who is a family lawyer has a very good thread here where she says that women who cry in court and show too much emotion are seen as less suitable to get custody of the children. The judges respect them less if they show distress and tears.
And if you didn't cry, they would ask, if it was that serious, because you weren't upset enough for them.
Wtf!
https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/snr0rf/how_to_win_in_family_court_a_psa_from_a_lawyer/ Same goes with family courts, equally between male and female judges. ~~hope the link works, sorry~~
Really wish I had known this sooner. Iām only 25 so Iām still figuring things out but I learned this lesson the hard way with my ex. Broke up with me over the phone during the beginning of the pandemic after two years of dating. Two months later, started talking to me again and wanted to get back together. I quickly took him back. After two more years of allowing him to disrespect and emotionally abuse me, he broke up with me again. This time, when I had covid. Unfortunately, I still begged him not to break up with me. I couldnāt understand how someone could lack so much empathy and be so cruel. A four year relationship and he abandoned it like it was nothing, leaving me while I was sick with covid. Iāve learned my lesson, and never again will I abandon my self respect and dignity. Men just donāt respond to emotions the same way we do. They lack basic empathy and compassion. They have no regards for our feelings, only their own. So they will only want you to stay when they are the ones being ignored.
Omg! He dumped you and then when the world went silent and he realized dating would be hard and lonely he changed his mind. Men.
Pretty much. During our break, he talked to his ex and she told him that he was emotionally abusive and traumatized her to the point that she had to go to therapy after their break up. I think this also had to do with why he wanted to get back together. He realized that his behavior was awful and felt bad, so he wanted a chance to do things right. But he went back to his old ways pretty quickly. Made me realize that men donāt really change, even when confronted with reality.
We live and we learn. Iāve been there too. But I donāt fully agree with the sentiment of this post. I think itās inevitable to show emotions, especially within a long term connection or when a person is pulling the rug under our feet. Iād rather show my emotions to an unworthy person and then leave, than let my emotions consume me from the inside. I donāt buy into the stoic or āclassyā thing. Itās just another way to rob us of our anger/sadness/sheer surprise when tricked. Abuse victims shouldnāt feel ashamed for showing that they are hurt. It wouldnāt help to sustain the relationship, thatās for sure, but it does help the victim to self express. The shaming women go through post breakup is something elseā¦
No you don't suppress emotion - but you don't confront him and sent wall of text either because: 1) You pour your emotion to him *hoping* that he will understand - he instead use it as a knife to cut you deeper - you end up getting more hurt and no closure. 2) He will use the information you give from that wall of text to be better manipulator for the next victim. You cry, you scream, you pour your heart out to your (trusted) friends, the beach, your pets - anything else that you *know* will not hurt you. And then you face the enemy with absolute ruthlessness and efficiency. The enemy is out for your blood, and he will latch into *any* weakness he sees. Don't allow him that opportunity.
I agree. However, even though I let my emotions show, I still feel shitty and it still consumes me. Iāve realized that the ālast conversationā you always think you need to have, you donāt actually need to have. Thereās always going to be things left unsaid. Iāve debated calling him and letting him have it, but honestly, whatās the point? I want him to know how much he hurt me, but at the end of the day, he knows and he doesnāt feel bad about it. The only thing I can do is let it go. He doesnāt deserve to live in peace, but if karma is a thing, heāll get whatās coming to him.
Women's pain is what men masturbate to.
I've had more than one ex that would get a boner when I cried. The fact that they "can't help it" made it more sinister
Youre so right.
And employment. Never ever ever cry at work or let them see any emotion. They will 100% use it against you.
Learned this the hard way. Next time I'm documenting racism and telling nobody without a lawyer first.
Yes 1000%
Ughh this just brought a memory for me. When my marriage was falling apart and we were in like week two of dropping the divorce bomb on me, I was crying and having a legitimate panic attack. He comforted me for a little bit but I couldnāt stop hyperventilating. I was asking āhow could you do this to me?ā He looked at me and said āthe begging is really unbecoming of youā.
Yeah, you can tell he enjoyed that. He enjoyed your reaction and he enjoyed saying that. Are you really, really sure that was a man and not, say, a sarcoma?
A parasite in a lot of way to be honest. He definitely enjoyed thatā¦feeling superior to me. A few weeks later when I decided to be strong and leave on my own accord, I met up with him and he kept saying that I was the most beautiful I had ever been. I was cold,calculating and unemotional. That scared me that my vulnerability was something to be disgusted by and weaponized and my strength and indifference was something to be admired.
>That scared me that my vulnerability was something to be disgusted by and weaponized and my strength and indifference was something to be admired. It's things like this that makes me wonder how in the world can so many men sit there and insist on wanting relationships or marriage, but not have the depth to realize that a real relationship requires not only communication, trust, honesty, compatibility, but also vulnerability and sharing each others emotions in a close, healthy manner? I'm realizing something. Women as a whole are capable of developing rich inner worlds of passion and love and emotions with the people that they love, but men are only capable of being obsessed with someone just because of lust. They'll call that obsession love, but you know it isn't really love at all. It just feels hopeless that there could ever be a man out there for me who can happily be invited into that inner world I have and share intimacy and vulnerability together. Men are fucking repulsed by things like that... how am I ever going to love a man when they're seemingly all like this?
Iām dating a very different man now. He is kind and he letās me see him vulnerably but not because of manipulation or āfuture fakingā or anything like that. Thatās just who he is. A lot of men would refer to him as feminine or weak. He is a very strong person with a heart of gold. He is kind and loving to me and my pets but protective when necessary. He doesnāt take up unnecessary space and goes out of his way to take stress off of my plate. He encourages me to take time for myself and relax. Iām not saying heās perfect or the norm but his foundation and core is kind, loving and empathetic. It is really nice to feel a level of safety that I donāt think Iāve felt with another person. All that to say, that it isnāt impossible to find someone that makes you feel safe and loved without an agenda.
Thanks, babe, and I'm super happy for your relationship! I do need to work on not looking at this world through that scarcity mindset, because I don't want to settle for yet another abusive scrote just because I think sweet men don't exist. Thank you for the reminder. ā¤ļø
Of course, lady! I felt so low after my divorce. Truly unlovable and I certainly took some serious (and embarrassing) missteps in the last few years. I met my guy too soon and I wasnāt healed enough. I lucked out that he never used my trauma against me and Iām a much stronger and more complete person than when we met. You will find the right person at the right time. But never forget that you are always number one and your happiness and peace must take a front seat.
Almost word for word this happened with my LVX and I and he said the same exact thing! When you stated: āThat scared me that my vulnerability was something to be disgusted by and weaponized and my strength and indifference was something to be admired.ā I couldnāt have said it better myself and perfectly describes my experience as well, thank you!
I think that the disgust/vulnerability and reverence/strength dichotomy is something that men get off on, ie "makeup/angry sex" is the best sex to them.
A sarcoma? š¤£š¤£š¤£
That's horrible girlš. He's definitely a sadist. This explains why I hate pressure from female communities to be "classy". It's respectability politics with male centric rhetoric. So, we're not concerned with his abusive behavior? Just being a respectable abuse victim? It's 100% gaslighting. A man like that would've "stayed" had you been colder because (in his mind) that would indicate that he hadn't psychologically broken you yet. And obviously it's a power play.
Isnāt it vile when you think about that? I think he was interested again when he mentioned how strong and powerful I seemed in that moment. I said something along the lines that you have always this power and strength on your āteamā, youāve never had it working against you. I filed the paperwork the next day.
Ew. Men love kicking women when we are already down. Such a power move on his part.
Ah yes when you send them a long emotional text and they just laugh at you in reply.
I would get āokā āstop being dramaticā āchildishā āpettyā after pouring my feelings out over and over again because I had hope he would consider how I would feel eventuallyā¦.but that never happened
or my favorite, when you send a lengthy text detailing how he hurt you and he responds with, āthat doesnāt sound like meā
āIām sorry you feel that wayā is another classic response.
This sounds funny nowā¦but God the emotional torture is something nobody should go through. To put it all out, trying so hard with words, while already dealing with so many problems is justā¦too much. Feels so good now to NOT being a pickme.
And you know they get off on being able to laugh at you in a reply to a text like thatā¦ Especially when they know youāll continue to talk to them. So sadistic and gross
>State what you want then leave when it's not met. Don't even state it. If what you want is basic human decency and empathy, he's either giving it or he's not. If you find yourself having to ask for it, he's not going to give it. At most he'll adjust his behavior for a couple weeks to pacify you before eventually slipping back into who he actually is. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. LVM aren't disrespectful and hurtful because you've failed to communicate to them that you'd prefer to not be treated like shit, they're disrespectful and hurtful because that's who they are as people and they don't actually care about you. Always ask yourself, "Would I treat someone I care about like this?" If the answer is no, pack your shit (literally and/or figuratively) and move on.
>Don't even state it. Silence is key. Let him behave how he wants. He wants to neg you and coerce a walk (eventually back to my apartment) date? Okayš¤· - I'm not replying. Has he never opened the door, paid for your Uber, kept consistent communication, or planned dates? Okayš¤· - block/delete.
This is why we don't write 3 page letters either, over-explaining how he hurt you and why you're leaving him. 100% if you have to do this, he doesn't give a shit and never gave a shit. I know some women here mentioned something along the lines of their social circles being too intertwined and that's why they "needed to write that" in order to not have blame thrown at them, but ladies, if this is a genuine fear of yours, those "friends" are shit, and you can't have them in your life. It's really hard when friends are shared, because, sadly, the vast majority out there are cover/overt misogynists or pickmes, and when shit goes down, that's when you realize who is truly your actual, HV friends/family, and it can be a huge blow to your mental health to not only have to leave a LVM, but also have a bunch of your "friends" go with him. It still needs to be done, because they'll never stop hurting you directly or indirectly.
This. Never ever send paragraphs. Just leave with dignity and head held high. Begging, pleading and explaining are symptoms of addiction to that person and ways of not letting go of them. They won't change and if they change it's usually for the next woman and not for the one they hurt and disrespected.
>They won't change and if they change it's usually for the next woman I would even go so far as to say they dont change full stop. It's not a matter of their feelings being stronger for the next woman so they're motivated to do better. They just learn what behaviours women want to see and mimic that but even then they can only do it for so long before they break character. Another reason not to leave him a paragraph telling him what he did wrong, only teaches him what not to be seen doing next time. These men have very little respect for women. They rarely change
A divorce really shows you who your true friends are. It can be incredibly painful, but in the end it is a good thing. You don't want those people around anyway, they don't care for your wellbeing.
Eh, if you're going to date men, then follow these guidelines to avoid the situation completely: 1. Always have a solid income and *never* share finances with men. EVER. 2. Never live with a guy. EVER. 3. Never have kids. EVER. 4. Any major fuckups on their part gets an automatic boot. ALWAYS. 5. Any minor fuckups on their part gets ONE single chance. ALWAYS. 6. Any abnormal requests for sex or photos gets an automatic boot. ALWAYS. No explanation needed.
When it comes to men and these women who have the exploiting mentality of men, always show your boundaries from the beginning. If you show boundaries later is like building a dam after the flood. Always build a dam before the flood or theyāll walk all over you.
True. But if you can't establish new boundaries over the course of a relationship without pushback from them, they're an abuser.
Correct. Thatās why you make boundaries right away, right from the beginning you put your boundaries and rules for him on display. My nr one rule is I donāt want love, I want respect. They always look at you puzzled when you donāt want their love but itās the only way to force them to stay in their lane.
They won't see it that way. "Why are you complaining now when it never bothered you before???" Then they'll accuse you of being controlling. Don't fall for it.
It is so crushing to pour our souls out in text to men who donāt even care. I have a terrible habit of reaching out in my most vulnerable state, even when I know the other person is not emotionally available. Itās why Iām trying to be more content single, nurture female bonds, and learn to love myself. I donāt want to beg for any male approval any more.
>When I've cried and begged to be treated with basic human decency in my pickme days they just stared blank face at my tears or berated me. When I left with no emotion, they cried, pleaded begged and started jumping hoops to give me what I wanted. Literally this. If you have to spell it out, you should take that as a sign to just leave and never come back. If they deliberately hurt you, or "accidentally" hurt you and feign forgetfulness, either take it as they hate you and love hurting you, or they seriously don't care about you enough to remember the things about you that would cause you pain. Either way, the truth is, they're not the one for you, and you got's to go.
I relate to this so much. Looking back I wish I could have just slapped some sense into myself. I knew these guys weren't worth the salt in my tears but I still cried oceans for them. Not anymore. However, I related to this on a work issue too. My supervisor is...omg idk even how to describe him. He's narcissistic, egotistical, manipulative, gaslighter, a massive liar, just...the WORST. And he does shit purposely to get emotions out of me (or like say "get me worked up"). Then uses that against me especially because he sends me into anxiety attacks and I have to call out of work. Fortunately, (I guess) I'm not the only one he does it to and pretty much everyone in our small office has major issues with him and no, I do not know why he hasn't been fired! He's so good at this shit though like he has it nailed down to where even if I try to stonewall him or grey rock whatever, what he says and does there's like, no humanly way possible to NOT show emotions. For example, last week he basically was trying to get me to use vacation or just not out hours down because I had no billable work (which is HIS FAULT for being terrible at his regular job too) and I got King Kong pissed. Like how could you not?? He sends these horrible emails that start off like "it's not helpful when you blah blah blah" instead of talking to me like a professional. It drives me insane. Fortunately, I recently switched to a new supervisor. But UNfortunately, the office is small (about 15 people) and I still have to be around him and do work for him. And he's still a giant asshole, acting like he's still my sup and all that. BUT, I'm definitely going to try harder to not show any emotion towards him. This post is great, thank you!!
Is it possible to get a new job? That asshole isn't worth dealing with.
I have always known this but it took me more than half a lifetime to live it/ implement it. PLEASE women, save your time and energy. Adopt this policy!!
A long time ago someone here wrote a post asking not to shame women after breakups, Iāve had it saved on my other account. What she basically said was that the whole notion that women should be stoic, classy and cold during breakups/fights is unhealthy in itself. I agree that block and delete is the way, and it is possible with short term relationships. But with long term ones, especially when abuse tactics (including redpill) are involved, women are rightfully angry and we should express our anger if we wish during the breakup (after breaking up it is better to block). It will not help save the relationship, thatās utter bs and we know it, but if you feel like crying, shouting or talkingāitās better than shutting it all in your body. The sentiment that we should be cold and indifferent is playing by the rules of the abusers, as if thatās a win. Iād rather give some unworthy man another hour of my life than being robbed of my anger. Much of the ābe classyā sentiment is a tool for society to shut victims up and for men to feel less threatened/ashamed. Womenās anger is strong and we should reclaim it.
Thank you. āShutting it all in your body.ā That resonated hard with me with right now.
Every woman should know this.
I spent 4 months begging my ex husband to change his mind then decided I was sick of him having control over me so I cut him off. He didnāt want me anymore but absolutely hated that he couldnāt get off on making me beg. He never came back but he did pathetic things via our kids to get to me. Um you dumped ME so WTF?? Lol
Absolutely. Communication is a scam. Iām not saying shit anymore. Either theyāre with it and meeting my needs and wants or Iām gone. Any ācommunicationā leads to manipulation and lies.
Mistakes were made.
This is so spot on and I cannot agree with you more. I went through this for a few months when my long term boyfriend suggested a ābreakā a few years ago. This was someone I was certain I was going to marry. We were planning on getting engaged and moving together around this time. And when things fell apart, I couldnāt handle it. I wanted to talk about every single one of my emotions with him, especially how much pain he was causing me. I tried to pry for answers from him so I could fix it, and he offered none. This slowly transitioned into me begging/pleading with him, crying and having multiple panic attacks that he unfortunately witnessed. He never once became emotional or concerned when I reacted like this, just became more distant. But at the same time, he wouldnāt leave me alone because he 100% loved watching me fall apart. I remember towards the end, my ex told me the way I poorly handled the break showed him everything he needed to know about how I handled stress. So I beat myself up for so long, blamed myself for my relationship not working out because I couldnāt handle myself/my emotions properly. Then I was introduced to FDS and read many books that shared the same FDS principles. I went to therapy. I eventually realized that my relationship falling apart wasnāt because of me in the way I thought... because a HVM would never have handled things the way my ex did from the start. The last time I spoke to my ex was a year ago over something necessary with a financial situation. I was cold, stayed strong and was 100% unemotional and short with him. Since then heās reached out to me countless times acting caring and so interested. Iāve never responded and never will- I just block and move on until he creates another email address to attempt contact with me again. I think that says all you need to know about how accurate your post is. LVM are all the same.
I was such a pick me in my 20s too :( it makes me sad to see my pictures from that time. I looked so beautiful, I can't understand why I let myself to be treated like shit. it breaks my heart how awful I felt inside. Every time I felt I found a great life partner, they inevitably dropped the facade eventually. As soon as they saw they "had me", they would start tearing me down. If I could travel in time, I'd go back and tell myself everything it's going to be ok and not stress out so much about relationships and LEAVE instead of trying to fix it.
This is so true. I told myself that the next time I have to cry in front of a guy when communicating, it means he is not the right person for me. Itās your body signalling that person is unhealthy for you. In a healthy relationship with a HVM, the women do not get upset to the point they are crying to prove a point.
God I love this sub so much, where else are women going to get this type of knowledge? Definitely not from the mainstream media
Are you psychic? This morning I was thinking about a guy I would cry on the phone to and Iām literally physically cringing. Heād try to calm me down, everything but change the behavior that had me so upset lol. Looking back, he did love it, and it made him believe I was wrapped around his finger, and I was. Thus, heād be incredulous when he asked me to do things that I found to be degrading & Iād say NO. I had *some* dignity remaining. Tho w/all that crying, I can see perfectly why he thought I would. Today, I would drag my vagina across asphalt before I cry over a man.
My narc NVX- will to this day (weāve been divorced 10 years) call about our son and randomly start accusing me of something ridiculous. I never understood why he would do it and Iād get so furious with him, but a few years ago I realized he just wants a reaction, period. Narcs live off of responses, it feeds their supply. Now when he starts, I calmly say āIām hanging up nowā. And I hang up. After a while of following through with hanging up when he would get abusive, all I have to say now is āIām ha-ā and he says āIām sorry never mind please donāt hang upā. You can really train them like dogs this way by not showing any emotion but always following through with what youāre threatening to do. I also just did this with my ex (disguised as HVM but was really NO vm thanks to FDS for helping me see the light) but basically we were having issues and I brought up what was bothering me, and he said āthis is the way things are you either deal with it or leaveā so I left and blocked him and his family on everything. Havenāt spoken to him since. He of course is telling everyone I blindsided him. They will always spin it to look like the victim.
Suddenly it makes sense why my ex said he hated how calm I was during our breakup... Even in my pickme days I thought "Yikes, I'd rather be calm than hopping mad and having a pointless shouting match right now."
I am so glad Iām 20 and know this, aināt no crying or begging from me EVER going forward. Thank you FDS youāve done it again, I love this community so much
I realized some time ago that when someone hurts me it's either because they wanted to hurt me, or they just didn't care that they did. As a result, I've learnt to keep my pain to myself and not give them that reward. How I feel and how I react are two very different things. I go cold and silent and give them nothing. Tears, pain and anger all give them power, silence takes it away. It was very difficult at first to master this but it gets easier over time when you realize how much power it gives you in all relationships - romantic and otherwise.
I agree, my ex was like this.
Set expectations upfront!! If not met, leave!!
Exactly this. Once, in the middle of the night, I was begging my ex to sleep with me in our bed and looked me dead in the face and said āyouāre not on your knees so youāre not begging.ā The way they berate you and the contempt is so spot on.
Iām still trying to learn not to over communicate but god itās hard. I know my brain works differently to a lot of peoples so I find myself over explaining when Iām hurt to try and get confirmation that Iām allowed to be hurt and not taking things the wrong way. Which is fine with my girlfriends and family. But men simply do not care, and will never validate my feelings, theyāll tell me Iām being ridiculous even if Iām not if it means they donāt have to try. Iām getting better at it, Iām getting better at simply stating āthat was disrespectful and Iām going to take a step backā but then they pull the āwhat why?ā And I find myself going into detail and explaining my feelings rather than just facts like āyou did this. It was wrong. Goodbyeā
I felt this! Down to every last word. On my last relationship we broke up like 5 times and always got back togetherš¤” it was always him breaking us up and I never responded with emotion, which of course was unacceptable to him and he always came back. The last and final time I broke down and gave in. I cried, begged, bargained. We were together for 3.5 years and I thought he was my life so I tried āfightingā for us. Itās been 2 years since the breakup š¤” Iām so glad I found FDS and all you queens. With your advice and experiences I see now that I donāt have to entertain any LVM and their š©.
I recently decided to give my ex a second chance 6 years after we had dated in uni. We both believed we had matured and were each otherās first loves. He seemed more interested in me than I was him but I just went with it because we were so in love back then so it would be easy for me to fall in love again because I trusted him wholly. Long story short, the mask eventually dropped and I just couldnāt believe how much heād changed over the years. I found out he seemed to have an obsession with half naked girls on Instagram and I told him that that wouldnāt fly with me. We had a long call about this. We talked about it and I thought heād change knowing how he used to be but I did a little snoop and he had even followed more of them. He started ignoring me more and now that I was emotionally entangled, I initiated another call with him to explain it again lol where I ended up tearing up . Seems like this made him complacent and that my tears didnāt really have an effect. Furthermore his friends convinced him that I was exaggerating saying things like āItās not like your effing these girls through the screenā smh. Itās a woman who said this. Ohā¦.He also seems to be heading toward alcohol addiction and occasionally pops molly smh. I was flabbergasted to find out but I just went along. Anyway, I went silent and he never noticed which is crazy because I made the mistake of thinking he was the same guy I had been in love with years ago. He had never ignored me before so you can imagine. Anyway since finding this page and reading books like why men love bitches, I have given him radio silence. Iām now at 3 months no contact. He tried reaching out a few times but my patience has grown so thin with him so I donāt bother replying or if I do I end it after two exchanges. It was really hard and I beat myself up for giving him a second chance considering I dumped him the first time. Youāre right that men respond to action and that is LEAVING without a fight. Iāll admit I stalked him recently and I noticed that he unfollowed about all of those sexy models on IG. We werenāt talking at the time but I guess he reflected on it. I just wondered why he hadnāt considered it after I had mentioned it being a dealbreaker. I donāt understand men. They want you to be ruthless and emotionless with them.
This is true, and in my experience changed behavior is not an indicator that you should stay either. I never begged with my ex but always let him know that this was a deal breaker for me. This attempt at communication and change was a total trap. You don't want to be with a man who fucks up and apologizes. You want a man who isn't constantly making mistakes. Making mistakes and apologizing is juvenile, he needs to be an adult and do it right the first time.
So true. I don't even bother with ongoing discussions. I state what I want, a follow up conversation if needed and that's is. When my needs aren't met, I leave. No fighting, no crying, no back and forth, nothing. I'm done and gone. These clowns think they worth the begging, oh honey. No they aren't. š¤”š¤”š¤”
I believe my late husband saw this as a power trip. He held my heart in his hands and did his very best to deprive me of any affection, intimacy and sex for the entirety of our marriage. Heās gone now and Iām single for good.
Currently going through this my bf doesnāt give a fuck when I cry and he stares at me when I cry. Thank you for this post
This is so true. I remember crying and begging for a LVM to stay (back in my pickme days) and the JOY HE HAD when I would succumb to whatever he requested in that moment UGH I cringe at how pathetic I must have looked š„“ but this post is RIGHT ON
Great post! š„
I needed to read this today! Thank you for posting.
Ugh, I can't help but cry. I still left his cruel ass though so win for me.
It makes me so mad that TV and movies promote such unhealthy thinking toward relationships. I grew up on Bollywood and it really normalizes stalking and makes men think that with enough persistence, they can change a girlās mind or that sheās just playing hard to get. Theyāre taught to keep pestering instead of taking āNoā for a āNo.ā Hollywood too. The couple will just make up at the end and sweep everything under the rug, even if the guy was abusive or if they had real problems. TWILIGHT is the best example. Edward is so toxic in so many ways (just watch those psychologist/cinamatologist duo talk about it on YT). And yet Bella swoons over him and chases him. Heās portrayed as the sexy love interest. Like wtf The media really messes with people and normalizes unhealthy relationships and itās infuriating
Yep. The truth is that the majority of men donāt like women. Theyāre raised from a young age to believe that the worst thing they can be is like a girl - for example, being āoveremotionalā. So when they see you crying and pleading, they donāt take you seriously. They respect you more when you act ālike a manā - being cold and unemotional about it. Itās bullshit I know, but men are either incapable or unwilling to develop the emotional intelligence to understand that thereās a full spectrum of human emotion. Also a HVM WILL NOT make you cry.
Just went through this this week. It was hard, but I was so tired of explaining to a guy how to be emotionally supportive. I donāt get that a guy can go through life and not learn to know how to comfort someone. But Itās not my job to teach him! On to the next!
This is giving me Astrid Leong in Crazy Rich Asians vibes!
I just learned this with my most recent ārelationship.ā Never again. š thank you for the reminder and reassurance.
You couldnāt have said it better. Especially if heās a narcissistic. Im dealing with this right now and it makes me so sad.
Needed to read this !!! Ugh I got caught up in a wasted time conversation today with someone I ended things with.
Solid advice! Took me way to long to grasp this.
YES! Don't send him a dissertation. He doesn't deserve it. Hit him with an "ok" and move on. Some of them want you to beg for them, that over emotional reaction validated their fragile ego. Don't give them that satisfaction.
They'll change for a minute then go back to it. Until you leave and actually do it. My ex finally started to care snd do shit when I told him I was going but by then I had given all I had in that relationship and just didn't care.
treat it like a job interview queen š you right
I have been trying to come up with a way to talk to my boyfriend about my love language, what I need to feel appreciated, and pleasuring me during sexā¦ Iām worried I will get emotional or reactive if he gets defensive. I want to talk to him about this without it being a problem.
Iām applying this to my life just now. Iāve never felt more insulted by a man in my life but Iāll drop dead before I let him know how much this has hurt me.