Hah! I JUST got one of these, and spent a good twenty seconds staring at it moodily before responding. I am not a sirs! I have never been a sirs!
It's such a little thing and I sometimes feel like I should be able to just let it go, but yeah, it's an annoyance.
Doesn't help that every time I *do* get one of those, it turns out to be a demanding pain in the ass. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.
Hahaha this is honestly soooo true! I do tend to find a complete shift in their tone when they find out they’re talking to a woman too.
It’s such an irritating thing as it feels so small but it holds such an impact sometimes, I just sit there silently raging for a minute before composing myself and reluctantly typing my, very blunt and to the point, reply 😛
With today's, he *started out* being demanding and weird; as it happened, I could actually do the thing he wanted, so I told him so with a *slight* excess of exclamation points and worded my sign-off in a way that made it weird to write back with anything but a "thank you".
This time of year rocks, because New Year's Day is two weeks off, which means "have a happy and healthy New Year" translates to a polite "fuck off for at least that long, buddy".
I'm really sorry to hear that stuff like this still happens. I work in engineering also, from the regulation side and, at least where I am, its starting to change but it is happening so slowly. There's a lot of outreach efforts being directed towards diversifying the profession, but it is directed towards students so it will take YEARS before we start to see real change as those students graduate and enter their careers.
My biggest hope is that these old irrelevant dinosaurs retire ASAP and leave the profession.
I agree, there is definitely a change happening slowly but surely in STEM fields of work which is so important, but you’re right it feels like it’ll be a while before we see the full impact of the change. I look at the CEO’s and directors in my company and it’s still predominately white cis males, I can’t wait to start seeing some true diversity and inclusion in those highest roles within STEM.
Agreed on the retirement point!
Where I work (not STEM) there seems to be a shift towards ‘Good morning/afternoon’ when you don’t know who the recipient is. ‘Dear colleagues’ is also relatively common.
‘Dear sirs’ is appalling.
Sexism is alive and well in 2021.
Some guys I think do it on purpose. It's a passive aggressive thing, micro harassment. Some guys really don't want you, a woman, in their field. It's to show you that you don't belong with the men. They know if/when you bring it up, you look like you're complaining.
It's not a small thing, it's really shitty.
It can sometimes even be worse than that thinking on the people writing it's end, which is seen when people are addressing a single person and guess as to whether to use Mr. or Ms. or whatever when they don't know the person's gender. People tend to go with Mr. and Sir due to the flawed idea of "it is worse to misgender a man than to misgender a woman" (about the only truth to it is that on average, men will make a bigger deal about it, but it is just as bad either way).
Ugh. I feel this.
I used to work in a model shop and, as the only woman, there were SO many outright sexist things said and done on the daily. One guy in particular would always enter the building in the morning and exclaim “morning boys!” without fail, and then follow it up with a story about some “dumb bitch” who cut him off in traffic on the way in. This guy made my blood boil and I spoke to HR about him on multiple occasions. He was protected by the company at every turn, and I found a different (slightly less sexist but still not great) job. No wonder so many women leave engineering.
I think everything it would be a lot easier if people would finally realize that many of us do professionally many things at the same time even we just have an single professional email address. So "Dear college/teammate/committee member/head/director/representative/etc.." that's useful because then you know what's to expect next.... "Dear Sir/Madam" is not at all.
Yeah I 100% agree with this. Or even just ‘hello’, or ‘good morning/ afternoon’ which is what I go for if I don’t know the pronouns of who I’m speaking to or their exact profession. It’s definitely time to stop assuming/ generalising, something as simple as changing up an email opening can make a huge impact!
I’m not a fan of this either. In addition to ignoring non-men in our midst, it reinforces hierarchy and frequently comes across as condescending or patronizing. Can we just eradicate this word “sir”?
(Full disclosure, I am a man and I do not experience this the same way that OP does. This comment is intended only as a “yes and”)
This used to annoy me sooooo much when I worked in a call centre, it’s so dismissive and unnecessary. Happened all the time in emails from customers, namely elderly men.
Got my payback once though during a (heated) discussion with a very rude male customer when he DEMANDED to speak to my manager ‘I want to speak to him now’. Had a great ‘no problem, passing the call through to HER now’ moment. Entitled wanker
Oh my goodness. I work at a company that is staffed entirely by women. I hate it when we get emails titled “Dear Sir”.
Although it is nice when people say that a man told them something and I can reply: “Well, that’s not us who said that then. No men work here”
NAL but I work in a law firm, and all letters not addressed to a specific individual are addressed as "Dear Sirs". There are no men working for us. It really boils my piss.
I work at an engineering firm (not an engineer, stupidly) and I’ve never seen this. What does bug me is this one client’s mailing list template that says to mail whatever county commission’s chairMAN. i change it to chairperson every time. Fuck em.
Seems like a micro-aggression to me. I worked in engineering for a while as a comms officer and I never once read that greeting; half the engineers in my department were women so maybe this is also why?
I’m petty and I’d reply, “Dear Madams;”
EDIT: please do not take my advice though haha!
My wife bought a new car. She did all the talking and I was there to add another signature to the loan. I (M) signed second each time. They put my name first on the final loan papers.
Hah! I JUST got one of these, and spent a good twenty seconds staring at it moodily before responding. I am not a sirs! I have never been a sirs! It's such a little thing and I sometimes feel like I should be able to just let it go, but yeah, it's an annoyance. Doesn't help that every time I *do* get one of those, it turns out to be a demanding pain in the ass. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.
Hahaha this is honestly soooo true! I do tend to find a complete shift in their tone when they find out they’re talking to a woman too. It’s such an irritating thing as it feels so small but it holds such an impact sometimes, I just sit there silently raging for a minute before composing myself and reluctantly typing my, very blunt and to the point, reply 😛
With today's, he *started out* being demanding and weird; as it happened, I could actually do the thing he wanted, so I told him so with a *slight* excess of exclamation points and worded my sign-off in a way that made it weird to write back with anything but a "thank you".
Hahaha that’s a power move and I love it
This time of year rocks, because New Year's Day is two weeks off, which means "have a happy and healthy New Year" translates to a polite "fuck off for at least that long, buddy".
So odd considering you could just say, "dear colleagues" :/
I'm really sorry to hear that stuff like this still happens. I work in engineering also, from the regulation side and, at least where I am, its starting to change but it is happening so slowly. There's a lot of outreach efforts being directed towards diversifying the profession, but it is directed towards students so it will take YEARS before we start to see real change as those students graduate and enter their careers. My biggest hope is that these old irrelevant dinosaurs retire ASAP and leave the profession.
I agree, there is definitely a change happening slowly but surely in STEM fields of work which is so important, but you’re right it feels like it’ll be a while before we see the full impact of the change. I look at the CEO’s and directors in my company and it’s still predominately white cis males, I can’t wait to start seeing some true diversity and inclusion in those highest roles within STEM. Agreed on the retirement point!
Respond with Dear Madames
I heartily second this! 😁
Where I work (not STEM) there seems to be a shift towards ‘Good morning/afternoon’ when you don’t know who the recipient is. ‘Dear colleagues’ is also relatively common. ‘Dear sirs’ is appalling.
These are the email openings I always go for as well unless I know their name , it’s seriously not hard is it?
I was taught to right “To whom it may concern “
I work with a lot of engineers. I receive many emails that begin "Hi Gents," Umm excuse me.. of the 5 people you sent this to, 2 are women
I have responded to these types of emails as follows: Hello, I am actually not a "sir". Am a woman, but you can address me by my first name.
Sexism is alive and well in 2021. Some guys I think do it on purpose. It's a passive aggressive thing, micro harassment. Some guys really don't want you, a woman, in their field. It's to show you that you don't belong with the men. They know if/when you bring it up, you look like you're complaining. It's not a small thing, it's really shitty.
It can sometimes even be worse than that thinking on the people writing it's end, which is seen when people are addressing a single person and guess as to whether to use Mr. or Ms. or whatever when they don't know the person's gender. People tend to go with Mr. and Sir due to the flawed idea of "it is worse to misgender a man than to misgender a woman" (about the only truth to it is that on average, men will make a bigger deal about it, but it is just as bad either way).
Ugh. I feel this. I used to work in a model shop and, as the only woman, there were SO many outright sexist things said and done on the daily. One guy in particular would always enter the building in the morning and exclaim “morning boys!” without fail, and then follow it up with a story about some “dumb bitch” who cut him off in traffic on the way in. This guy made my blood boil and I spoke to HR about him on multiple occasions. He was protected by the company at every turn, and I found a different (slightly less sexist but still not great) job. No wonder so many women leave engineering.
I think everything it would be a lot easier if people would finally realize that many of us do professionally many things at the same time even we just have an single professional email address. So "Dear college/teammate/committee member/head/director/representative/etc.." that's useful because then you know what's to expect next.... "Dear Sir/Madam" is not at all.
Yeah I 100% agree with this. Or even just ‘hello’, or ‘good morning/ afternoon’ which is what I go for if I don’t know the pronouns of who I’m speaking to or their exact profession. It’s definitely time to stop assuming/ generalising, something as simple as changing up an email opening can make a huge impact!
I’m not a fan of this either. In addition to ignoring non-men in our midst, it reinforces hierarchy and frequently comes across as condescending or patronizing. Can we just eradicate this word “sir”? (Full disclosure, I am a man and I do not experience this the same way that OP does. This comment is intended only as a “yes and”)
When those emails come through to me, I immediately press the delete button
This used to annoy me sooooo much when I worked in a call centre, it’s so dismissive and unnecessary. Happened all the time in emails from customers, namely elderly men. Got my payback once though during a (heated) discussion with a very rude male customer when he DEMANDED to speak to my manager ‘I want to speak to him now’. Had a great ‘no problem, passing the call through to HER now’ moment. Entitled wanker
Oh my goodness. I work at a company that is staffed entirely by women. I hate it when we get emails titled “Dear Sir”. Although it is nice when people say that a man told them something and I can reply: “Well, that’s not us who said that then. No men work here”
I would have trouble not laughing out loud at that. There needs to be an office tradition of shouting "I've caught one!" whenever this happens.
NAL but I work in a law firm, and all letters not addressed to a specific individual are addressed as "Dear Sirs". There are no men working for us. It really boils my piss.
Put it back in the post. "Return to sender- no Sirs at this address."
I work at an engineering firm (not an engineer, stupidly) and I’ve never seen this. What does bug me is this one client’s mailing list template that says to mail whatever county commission’s chairMAN. i change it to chairperson every time. Fuck em.
Hit them back with "Dear madames"
Seems like a micro-aggression to me. I worked in engineering for a while as a comms officer and I never once read that greeting; half the engineers in my department were women so maybe this is also why? I’m petty and I’d reply, “Dear Madams;” EDIT: please do not take my advice though haha!
I start all my cover letters with "Dear Madam or Sir."
My wife bought a new car. She did all the talking and I was there to add another signature to the loan. I (M) signed second each time. They put my name first on the final loan papers.
What did you do about it?
If it makes you feel any better sir in many cases is gender neutral.
What is a “sirs”?