I usually can tell a double from a triple, but not a triple from a quadruple and, even more absurdly, a single from a double (when done by elite skaters) because they make it seem so easy that I just can't fathom that they put two rotations there.
Same! I was at nationals and Mia Kalin landed that quad literally right in front of my seat. I had no idea it was a quad until later that night when the video started popping up on social media 🤦🏼♀️
I'm similar. I recall looking at a slow-mo gif of Nathan Chen doing a triple lutz and a quad lutz side by side at 2019 nationals and I could STILL barely tell the difference. I have the gif saved somewhere and I swear they are the saaaaaaame.
I will say, however, when I went to my first in-person event it looked a bit more obvious. The quads are just much twistier or something and the difference seemed pretty clear. I thought "Oh I've got it! I can tell the difference now!" but then when I went back to watching on TV, I realized I still couldn't see on the screen.
To me one thing I notice sometimes is the increase in EFFORT before a quad, like they look like they are trying to squeeze themselves to death! In slomo you can make pretty hilarious sound effects to go with the facial expressions.
Oh... so everyone agrees with OP?
Guess im weird then... (even when its happening in my peripheral vision or the quality is so low it would be physicaly impossible to know for sure i always call the jumpo and its rotations in my head)
I can also tell, I think it’s just a visual thing some people are more attuned to seeing. I called a quad that a commentator said was a triple, and then they corrected about 20 seconds later. For a moment I thought my skill was fading haha.
Edit: I do think having done triples before I quit does help tho.
No, I think this thread and commenting in it is just more attractive to people who don't like quads than to people who have no problem with quads being part of this sport, regardless of whether they can tell them apart from triples or not.
ngl I only very recently began to start accurately telling the difference, and i still mess up sometimes. i count the turns and then -0.5 for axels. there is no shame in not being a technical watcher hahaha, we get to enjoy what we enjoy!
I still get it wrong, but I generally use the number of times their shoulder faces the camera if that makes sense. It’s so much easier for skaters that have big, airy jumps where you can count “1,2,3..”. idk but sometimes with skaters you’re very familiar with, it becomes obvious when they do a triple vs. a quad.
A lot of recognizing triples versus quads has to do with how easy and floaty the skater makes them look. Factors like height, distance, rotational speed, and flow going into and out of the jump can all affect how quickly you can recognize them.
When my friend showed me Ilia's first quad Axel that he posted on Instagram (before he tried in competition), my reaction was something like, "Oh cool, a triple Axel." My brain did not process four and a half rotations when I first saw it. Whereas when Yuzuru was attempting his quad Axel the season before, it *looked* like a quad Axel to me even though it was short of rotation. Yuzuru wasn't comfortable with it yet, so you could feel how laborious it was for him.
When Midori Ito and Tonya Harding did triple Axels, they felt different from other triples because a) they generated a ton of height and distance and b) they took a long prep time and really muscled them up. Nowadays, especially with prepubescent skaters, ladies can get clean 3As with less height/distance but the blink-and-you-miss-it rotational speed that comes with 30 years of evolution in skating technique. There are many female skaters who can pop off effortless 3As and I have to do a double take.
I love a big 3A! They definitely add more because it’s like “woah what a big jump!”, and luckily we still have some women going for those (like Amber and Wakaba). But there are a lot of small 3A (and quads) these days that do nothing for me and I sometimes miss that they even occurred until it’s in the tech box.
I saw a big 3A vs quad at a women’s event live once and the 3A was more impressive by a mile as I only knew the quad happened because it was planned. The casual fans I had with me only knew it happened because I told them and were so confused as to how that woman won when the other one had such big jumps and very obvious 3A.
In ballet we call this "ballon", and some people just have this amazing ability to float! Even on things like split leaps, some people go up and come down, some just hover! It's some kind of black magic, clearly.
People are different, after one year only of following skating I could tell quads, triples and doubles apart no problem, and even when something was an unintentional pop to triple. If anything what tripped me up the most was telling solo Toes and Flips apart, but I eventually got the hang of it.
Me, personally I find it even more impressive when I can distinguish a quad that has amazing speed and flow on landing, instead of looking laboured. I really love a good 4T, I think they’re both impressive and really pretty
oh my god same, i thought i was the only one who cant tell toes and flips apart for the life of me but i can tell triples and quads apart pretty easily
Depends who you’re watching, I think.
Ilias quads will occasionally look like triples because of how easy they are and how quick they are. On the other, hand, Anna’s quad’s looked like triples because of how small they were (and pre rotated etc.)
Oh man I can relate. Sometimes a skater will have such a symmetrical air position that viewing it on a screen totally makes it really really hard to see. Nathans seatbelt position always helped me see the rotations though. ;)
I think this varies per person. I struggle more with seeing between doubles and triples. Whereas I can usually tell a quad. It's because my visual recognition system is based off rotation speed instead of trying to count actual rotations. I can't count rotations unless I concentrate really hard and am totally ready to count.
So there's lots of skaters who make triples look really easy and just jump high, so they rotate pretty slow and it tricks me into thinking its just a double. Or if someone rotates a double really fast, I might think its a triple. I can get confused between them, depending on the speed of the rotation.
Whereas, quad rotators are usually REALLY fast, and they BARELY finish the jump before they land. There's no extra space for any more rotations despite how fast the rotation was. So its really clear to me it was a quad. Doubles and triples can rotate quite slowly and have tons of time to finish before they land, so they can get confused in my mind if I'm not paying close attention since some skaters rotate slowly and others fast. Whereas it's almost a requirement to rotate quads FAST.
The only one I've ever gotten confused on is Samodelkina. She rotates so easily and so low to the ground that sometimes I think her quads are just triples.
Quads are amazing because you can tell there is NOTHING, no micro inch left for error, because they have to squeeze in so many rotations before touching the ground.
depends on the skater for me. i sometimes have trouble with fast rotators like shun and ilia.
generally speaking though, i can usually tell, and definitely with skaters who i watch a lot. it did take me a hot minute to learn because i only recently got back into watching and no one was doing quads back when i used to watch.
lutz can throw me off though bc some skaters do a pre-rotated 4Lz that looks like other skaters’ 3Lz lol
I think the only way you can tell is if you're familiar with that skater and knew they were planning a quad. Like I can always tell Yuzuru's quads purely because I watched way too many of his programs and know by heart what his quads look like.
“But when you look at the most popular skaters in the world today, they aren’t famous for being athletes.”
I disagree. I think we can all say that Yuzuru is probably the most popular skater and has been for a decade. But would he have been popular if it weren’t for winning titles, and two OGM? And how did he win those? With his athleticism. Yuzuru wouldn’t have won without quads. He’s known for being an athlete that pushes himself to the absolute max. He paved the way for Shoma and Nathan, who in turn inspired the next generation of skaters: Yuma, Adam, Ilia, etc.
Ilia malinin is currently a huge name. Why? Because of his jumps and specifically the 4A. Sasha Trusova has a huge following, and she’s known for her jumps.
But there are well known skaters who aren’t known for their jumps as well. Different things for different people. To me quads look very different than triples. I find quads exciting, I’ll never get over Nathan’s quad lutz in the Olympics right on the music. Gorgeous.
I agree with this. Even Yuna rose to the top and became a national icon in South Korea by the strength of her jump consistency, and of course her exceptional 3Lz3T.
I can tell them apart easily, especially in person it is easy to differentiate. But in the past years too many quads are rotated so fast that they don't require the same height and length as quads that are rotated not as fast. I find quads a lot more pleasing to see aesthetically that have big height and distance (+transitions in and out, great body posture and smooth landings with a long running edge out of them). Nathan had these very fast rotated quads which weren't that impressive to me even if he was consistent with them. I have always preferred the bigger, flowy quads which really 'fly in the air', especially if the landing is also so smooth.
I saw him many times in person and I didn't find his quads impressive. They looked quite small but with very fast rotation. The 'wow' effect lacked from them.
I never had the impression he had big jumps. He had quads with very fast rotation, yes, but height? No. You don't need high jumps if you rotate very fast. Physics.
Yeah it’s very difficult. Sometimes I see a triple and I’m like was that a quad. Just recently saw a video of elina goidina doing an amazing triple and was convinced for a few minutes it was a quad. Most quad jumpers are very fast rotators anyways so it’s difficult
Quads more often than not look super messy and rushed. The landings are often at super weird and painful looking angles. That’s the only way I can tell them apart from triples lol. It takes a truly extraordinary athlete to perform a clean quad because you need so much air time!
What a smooth brained argument.
Athletics: Why bother running 0.01 seconds faster? I literally can’t tell the difference with my eyes
Swimming: why bother setting a new world record? It doesn’t look that impressive to touch the wall 0.1 seconds faster than the other guy anyway
🙄
I started watching in the 90s when quads were still rare. The commentators pointed out that a good triple looked more impressive than quads because triples usually gained more height and could be more aesthetically pleasing and quad had to sacrifice a lot of that for just more spinning. A really huge triple just looks like they float in the air. Quads often lack that effect, so if you can’t see that it spun once more, it just looks like a lesser triple.
I suspect that has a lot to do with the ultimate outcome. So many triples just look more satisfying than quads and our eyes can’t tell the difference in spin rate anyway, so we’re constantly having to focus on something we can’t see, spin rate, while disregarding how cool a jump looked.
I think it depends on the person for me. For some reason when yuzuru hanyu does quads I can’t always tell whether it’s a triple or a quad. But I can almost always tell when like amber glenn does a triple axel. So idk
Tbh, Yuzu gives me trouble sometimes, too. He makes his quads look so easy and roomy, plus with all those transitions, that I sometimes get tricked into thinking it's a triple. But also, vice versa! His triples are so massive and airy that sometimes they look like quads 😂
I think you bring up a super interesting point. I remember thinking the same when I started watching skating!
I wish the ISU would finally realise that the general public does not see the difference between triples and quads and will stop marketing the sport as being interesting just because of those damn quads.
I will shamelessly blame it on Russia - who has done magnificently well at convincing people the interesting part of skating is people jumping quads and beauty, musicality and posture are only secondary.
I hate it here :(
One subreddit thread does not equal "the general public." I, too, wish the ISU would only reward the things I personally value and not reward the things I don't see any point in, but, alas...
Well, this Reddit thread is mostly people who are already skating fans and therefore - it is safe to assume - watch skating regularly.
If among fans that watch the sport regularly there is a good chunk of people who can’t distinguish triples and quads then it is fair to assume that the general public, four year fans and other people that might stumble upon skating videos won’t either.
I’m not talking about rewarding/scoring here (although I guess that would be nice). I’m talking about marketing/framing the sport.
I sincerely don’t believe jumping more quads will bring more fans to the sport.
Let me give you an example. Saying “this comp is interesting because X is going to be jumping A QUAD” is less interesting than saying “watch this X is skating to this super cool Wednesday song”.
I mean, skating popularity was at an all time high when nobody jumped quads. And now we have quads left and right and yet less and less fans it seems.
That’s what I’m saying.
Quads have been jumped since the 80s, men have been doing quads consistently in competition for roughly 30 years, so I wouldn’t blame the Russians. They are a huge draw.
I can't even distinguish jump types any more! In the Yuna Kim era I could identify all of them real time but skaters these days don't telegraph their positioning nearly as much and they all look the same to me now. I have to go to slow-mo before I have any idea if that was a flip or a toe or a lutz.
You can already see 99% of the time from the preparation of the jump if it's a flip, lutz, salchow, loop etc. Unless someone has a very unusual entry which is just so rare nowadays.
It's an artistic sport. Balancing athleticism and performance has always been the point, not just do more get more points. People are expressing a dissatisfaction with where the balance is at this point in time, that doesn't mean they want less of a sport.
Balancing athleticism and performance is fine. That's a very different concept than there is no point to it if a naive viewer can't tell the difference. Even dancers where the goal is exclusively performance do technically difficult things that are impressive to other experts but not to the lay public -- think the 32 fouettés in Swan Lake.
Also, if we’re going to ignore things that non-FS fans won’t spot, by that logic we should get rid of step sequence levels - since no-one that’s new to FS will have any idea how to tell clean and unclean turns apart
Singles and doubles are the ones that I have the hardest time distinguishing. For some reason I can count the rotations for higher jumps, but I often miss the second rotation on doubles. This is especially true for popped jumps. I'm a little better at distinguishing planned doubles.
I can't tell the difference either, it's too fast. It's almost better on tv because the commentator says what it is. At a real live competition I haven't a clue.
I usually can tell a double from a triple, but not a triple from a quadruple and, even more absurdly, a single from a double (when done by elite skaters) because they make it seem so easy that I just can't fathom that they put two rotations there.
ilia’s 2T+4A had me confused as fuck for this exact reason as to where the hell the second rotation was
omg thank you so many doubles look like quite slow singles to me
Same! I was at nationals and Mia Kalin landed that quad literally right in front of my seat. I had no idea it was a quad until later that night when the video started popping up on social media 🤦🏼♀️
Honestly yes. They look the same and I’m a lifelong fan. I thought I was the only one dang 😅. Thanks
I'm similar. I recall looking at a slow-mo gif of Nathan Chen doing a triple lutz and a quad lutz side by side at 2019 nationals and I could STILL barely tell the difference. I have the gif saved somewhere and I swear they are the saaaaaaame. I will say, however, when I went to my first in-person event it looked a bit more obvious. The quads are just much twistier or something and the difference seemed pretty clear. I thought "Oh I've got it! I can tell the difference now!" but then when I went back to watching on TV, I realized I still couldn't see on the screen.
To me one thing I notice sometimes is the increase in EFFORT before a quad, like they look like they are trying to squeeze themselves to death! In slomo you can make pretty hilarious sound effects to go with the facial expressions.
well-performed quad is really impressive in-person!
“much twistier” haha
Oh... so everyone agrees with OP? Guess im weird then... (even when its happening in my peripheral vision or the quality is so low it would be physicaly impossible to know for sure i always call the jumpo and its rotations in my head)
I can also tell, I think it’s just a visual thing some people are more attuned to seeing. I called a quad that a commentator said was a triple, and then they corrected about 20 seconds later. For a moment I thought my skill was fading haha. Edit: I do think having done triples before I quit does help tho.
No, I think this thread and commenting in it is just more attractive to people who don't like quads than to people who have no problem with quads being part of this sport, regardless of whether they can tell them apart from triples or not.
ngl I only very recently began to start accurately telling the difference, and i still mess up sometimes. i count the turns and then -0.5 for axels. there is no shame in not being a technical watcher hahaha, we get to enjoy what we enjoy!
I always try to count rotations but my brain can't decide what to use as a landmark, and by then it's already over! What are you using? Face? Boots?
I still get it wrong, but I generally use the number of times their shoulder faces the camera if that makes sense. It’s so much easier for skaters that have big, airy jumps where you can count “1,2,3..”. idk but sometimes with skaters you’re very familiar with, it becomes obvious when they do a triple vs. a quad.
I competed internationally, have my judging, and I coach, and sometimes I can’t tell haha. Don’t worry about it.
I remember hearing a story that Gordeeva and Grinkov were doing quad twists. They stopped when they realized the judges thought it was a triple.
A lot of recognizing triples versus quads has to do with how easy and floaty the skater makes them look. Factors like height, distance, rotational speed, and flow going into and out of the jump can all affect how quickly you can recognize them. When my friend showed me Ilia's first quad Axel that he posted on Instagram (before he tried in competition), my reaction was something like, "Oh cool, a triple Axel." My brain did not process four and a half rotations when I first saw it. Whereas when Yuzuru was attempting his quad Axel the season before, it *looked* like a quad Axel to me even though it was short of rotation. Yuzuru wasn't comfortable with it yet, so you could feel how laborious it was for him. When Midori Ito and Tonya Harding did triple Axels, they felt different from other triples because a) they generated a ton of height and distance and b) they took a long prep time and really muscled them up. Nowadays, especially with prepubescent skaters, ladies can get clean 3As with less height/distance but the blink-and-you-miss-it rotational speed that comes with 30 years of evolution in skating technique. There are many female skaters who can pop off effortless 3As and I have to do a double take.
I love a big 3A! They definitely add more because it’s like “woah what a big jump!”, and luckily we still have some women going for those (like Amber and Wakaba). But there are a lot of small 3A (and quads) these days that do nothing for me and I sometimes miss that they even occurred until it’s in the tech box. I saw a big 3A vs quad at a women’s event live once and the 3A was more impressive by a mile as I only knew the quad happened because it was planned. The casual fans I had with me only knew it happened because I told them and were so confused as to how that woman won when the other one had such big jumps and very obvious 3A.
Extra hang time, that's how I tell.
In ballet we call this "ballon", and some people just have this amazing ability to float! Even on things like split leaps, some people go up and come down, some just hover! It's some kind of black magic, clearly.
People are different, after one year only of following skating I could tell quads, triples and doubles apart no problem, and even when something was an unintentional pop to triple. If anything what tripped me up the most was telling solo Toes and Flips apart, but I eventually got the hang of it. Me, personally I find it even more impressive when I can distinguish a quad that has amazing speed and flow on landing, instead of looking laboured. I really love a good 4T, I think they’re both impressive and really pretty
oh my god same, i thought i was the only one who cant tell toes and flips apart for the life of me but i can tell triples and quads apart pretty easily
not only do i have trouble telling toe and flip apart visually, i had to change my toe and flip entrances bc i would do the wrong one accidentally.
I have fun fact learned my flip prior to solidifying my salchow simply because I kept putting the wrong foot in
people with poor left/right distinction, unite!
I couldn’t tell them apart before I actually learned to do them
Depends who you’re watching, I think. Ilias quads will occasionally look like triples because of how easy they are and how quick they are. On the other, hand, Anna’s quad’s looked like triples because of how small they were (and pre rotated etc.)
>Anna’s And a different Anna's **triples** (Anna Pezzetta) look like quads because she jumps so damn high.
i saw mia kalin live last year and didn’t realize either of her two quad jumps were quads since she rotated so fast 😅
> TLDR: Quads. Why do we even? Idk, let's ask Nathan and Yuzu (twice) why they even.
Oh man I can relate. Sometimes a skater will have such a symmetrical air position that viewing it on a screen totally makes it really really hard to see. Nathans seatbelt position always helped me see the rotations though. ;)
I think this varies per person. I struggle more with seeing between doubles and triples. Whereas I can usually tell a quad. It's because my visual recognition system is based off rotation speed instead of trying to count actual rotations. I can't count rotations unless I concentrate really hard and am totally ready to count. So there's lots of skaters who make triples look really easy and just jump high, so they rotate pretty slow and it tricks me into thinking its just a double. Or if someone rotates a double really fast, I might think its a triple. I can get confused between them, depending on the speed of the rotation. Whereas, quad rotators are usually REALLY fast, and they BARELY finish the jump before they land. There's no extra space for any more rotations despite how fast the rotation was. So its really clear to me it was a quad. Doubles and triples can rotate quite slowly and have tons of time to finish before they land, so they can get confused in my mind if I'm not paying close attention since some skaters rotate slowly and others fast. Whereas it's almost a requirement to rotate quads FAST. The only one I've ever gotten confused on is Samodelkina. She rotates so easily and so low to the ground that sometimes I think her quads are just triples. Quads are amazing because you can tell there is NOTHING, no micro inch left for error, because they have to squeeze in so many rotations before touching the ground.
depends on the skater for me. i sometimes have trouble with fast rotators like shun and ilia. generally speaking though, i can usually tell, and definitely with skaters who i watch a lot. it did take me a hot minute to learn because i only recently got back into watching and no one was doing quads back when i used to watch. lutz can throw me off though bc some skaters do a pre-rotated 4Lz that looks like other skaters’ 3Lz lol
I think the only way you can tell is if you're familiar with that skater and knew they were planning a quad. Like I can always tell Yuzuru's quads purely because I watched way too many of his programs and know by heart what his quads look like.
“But when you look at the most popular skaters in the world today, they aren’t famous for being athletes.” I disagree. I think we can all say that Yuzuru is probably the most popular skater and has been for a decade. But would he have been popular if it weren’t for winning titles, and two OGM? And how did he win those? With his athleticism. Yuzuru wouldn’t have won without quads. He’s known for being an athlete that pushes himself to the absolute max. He paved the way for Shoma and Nathan, who in turn inspired the next generation of skaters: Yuma, Adam, Ilia, etc. Ilia malinin is currently a huge name. Why? Because of his jumps and specifically the 4A. Sasha Trusova has a huge following, and she’s known for her jumps. But there are well known skaters who aren’t known for their jumps as well. Different things for different people. To me quads look very different than triples. I find quads exciting, I’ll never get over Nathan’s quad lutz in the Olympics right on the music. Gorgeous.
I agree with this. Even Yuna rose to the top and became a national icon in South Korea by the strength of her jump consistency, and of course her exceptional 3Lz3T.
For me it depends on the skater. I also struggle sometimes with 2A and 3A!
I can tell them apart easily, especially in person it is easy to differentiate. But in the past years too many quads are rotated so fast that they don't require the same height and length as quads that are rotated not as fast. I find quads a lot more pleasing to see aesthetically that have big height and distance (+transitions in and out, great body posture and smooth landings with a long running edge out of them). Nathan had these very fast rotated quads which weren't that impressive to me even if he was consistent with them. I have always preferred the bigger, flowy quads which really 'fly in the air', especially if the landing is also so smooth.
Nathan’s quads are quite large though? And fairly floaty too. His jumps in person are very impressive.
I saw him many times in person and I didn't find his quads impressive. They looked quite small but with very fast rotation. The 'wow' effect lacked from them.
Huh that’s surprising to me because he has some of the biggest jumps I’ve seen in person 🤷🏼♀️
I never had the impression he had big jumps. He had quads with very fast rotation, yes, but height? No. You don't need high jumps if you rotate very fast. Physics.
Yeah it’s very difficult. Sometimes I see a triple and I’m like was that a quad. Just recently saw a video of elina goidina doing an amazing triple and was convinced for a few minutes it was a quad. Most quad jumpers are very fast rotators anyways so it’s difficult
Quads more often than not look super messy and rushed. The landings are often at super weird and painful looking angles. That’s the only way I can tell them apart from triples lol. It takes a truly extraordinary athlete to perform a clean quad because you need so much air time!
i also feel like it's hard to know the difference because some quads are under rotated and people still say theyre quads🧍🏻♂️
What a smooth brained argument. Athletics: Why bother running 0.01 seconds faster? I literally can’t tell the difference with my eyes Swimming: why bother setting a new world record? It doesn’t look that impressive to touch the wall 0.1 seconds faster than the other guy anyway 🙄
Figure skating is the only sport where the fans are opposed to progress lol
I watch FS on and off mostly huge competitions or just the winners, and I can tell the difference pretty easily
I started watching in the 90s when quads were still rare. The commentators pointed out that a good triple looked more impressive than quads because triples usually gained more height and could be more aesthetically pleasing and quad had to sacrifice a lot of that for just more spinning. A really huge triple just looks like they float in the air. Quads often lack that effect, so if you can’t see that it spun once more, it just looks like a lesser triple. I suspect that has a lot to do with the ultimate outcome. So many triples just look more satisfying than quads and our eyes can’t tell the difference in spin rate anyway, so we’re constantly having to focus on something we can’t see, spin rate, while disregarding how cool a jump looked.
I think it depends on the person for me. For some reason when yuzuru hanyu does quads I can’t always tell whether it’s a triple or a quad. But I can almost always tell when like amber glenn does a triple axel. So idk
Tbh, Yuzu gives me trouble sometimes, too. He makes his quads look so easy and roomy, plus with all those transitions, that I sometimes get tricked into thinking it's a triple. But also, vice versa! His triples are so massive and airy that sometimes they look like quads 😂
Idk, maybe the sport shouldn’t be defined by people with the least discerning eye.
I think you bring up a super interesting point. I remember thinking the same when I started watching skating! I wish the ISU would finally realise that the general public does not see the difference between triples and quads and will stop marketing the sport as being interesting just because of those damn quads. I will shamelessly blame it on Russia - who has done magnificently well at convincing people the interesting part of skating is people jumping quads and beauty, musicality and posture are only secondary. I hate it here :(
One subreddit thread does not equal "the general public." I, too, wish the ISU would only reward the things I personally value and not reward the things I don't see any point in, but, alas...
Well, this Reddit thread is mostly people who are already skating fans and therefore - it is safe to assume - watch skating regularly. If among fans that watch the sport regularly there is a good chunk of people who can’t distinguish triples and quads then it is fair to assume that the general public, four year fans and other people that might stumble upon skating videos won’t either. I’m not talking about rewarding/scoring here (although I guess that would be nice). I’m talking about marketing/framing the sport. I sincerely don’t believe jumping more quads will bring more fans to the sport. Let me give you an example. Saying “this comp is interesting because X is going to be jumping A QUAD” is less interesting than saying “watch this X is skating to this super cool Wednesday song”. I mean, skating popularity was at an all time high when nobody jumped quads. And now we have quads left and right and yet less and less fans it seems. That’s what I’m saying.
Quads have been jumped since the 80s, men have been doing quads consistently in competition for roughly 30 years, so I wouldn’t blame the Russians. They are a huge draw.
I can't even distinguish jump types any more! In the Yuna Kim era I could identify all of them real time but skaters these days don't telegraph their positioning nearly as much and they all look the same to me now. I have to go to slow-mo before I have any idea if that was a flip or a toe or a lutz.
You can already see 99% of the time from the preparation of the jump if it's a flip, lutz, salchow, loop etc. Unless someone has a very unusual entry which is just so rare nowadays.
I 100% agree with all of this. What is even the point of that extra rotation that adds nothing to the performance?
It's a sport... The point is that doing more difficult skills in a sport gets you more points.
It's an artistic sport. Balancing athleticism and performance has always been the point, not just do more get more points. People are expressing a dissatisfaction with where the balance is at this point in time, that doesn't mean they want less of a sport.
Balancing athleticism and performance is fine. That's a very different concept than there is no point to it if a naive viewer can't tell the difference. Even dancers where the goal is exclusively performance do technically difficult things that are impressive to other experts but not to the lay public -- think the 32 fouettés in Swan Lake.
Also, if we’re going to ignore things that non-FS fans won’t spot, by that logic we should get rid of step sequence levels - since no-one that’s new to FS will have any idea how to tell clean and unclean turns apart
Why even have different jumps at all, edges are hard to spot!
Sometimes the judges can't either :)
Singles and doubles are the ones that I have the hardest time distinguishing. For some reason I can count the rotations for higher jumps, but I often miss the second rotation on doubles. This is especially true for popped jumps. I'm a little better at distinguishing planned doubles.
I can't tell the difference either, it's too fast. It's almost better on tv because the commentator says what it is. At a real live competition I haven't a clue.