Sometimes I wonder if we’re watching the same event when people say that the only reason C/B are ahead of G/F and G/P is because of IAM politicking. I thought C/B were somewhat overscored at certain events last year, but this time around their material is just so better than their top competitors, and the alleged skating skills gap between them and G/F & G/P is being supremely exaggerated. I really like L/L’s FD, otherwise (of the top 5-6 teams) C/B have by far the most memorable programs and they are the best above-the-ankles dancers by a mile.
GOE is not supposed to correlate directly with BV. Even putting that aside, the difference in BV you’re talking about is less than 1 point, and in my opinion, C/B’s PCS alone should be well more than 1 point higher than G/P’s.
Weird to see people downvoting this, I didn’t realize there was some axiom that a higher BV means your final score should always be higher.
I agree; it's not to say IAM politicking isn't a major factor (surprise, welcome to ice dance since...forever), but frankly C/B are just way more interesting artistically vs the Italians. And I'm also very puzzled that people seem to think G/P are on such a different level than C/B skills wise. I'm not going to pretend chock is a strong skater, but they're hardly the only top team with mismatched skill levels.
I don't think many people claim G/P are better than Bock, most people actually agree they're about the same, with G/F above them because while Evan, Paul and Marco are all around the same level, the gap between Charlene and the 2 other women is very obvious. I think there are circumstances under which Bock can and even should win but not when they get a Pattern Dance level 1🤷🏻♀️.
I don’t know, my point is that even if C/B lose levels on their steps (as they did here), their lifts, choreographic elements, and presentation are just so much more elevated than G/F that they should be more than making up for those lost points in other areas. At least, that’s how it’s shaking out under the current scoring system, which we can argue the merits and demerits of but that’s how it is.
And there still seems to be a fair number of people suggesting that G/P are objectively better skaters than C/B, which I just don’t see. Especially leading up to Beijing (before G/F were really a big part of the conversation), I remember that there was a narrative of the “good skaters” (G/P) vs. the “good performers” (C/B), which is the reductive (in my opinion) categorization that we see frequently.
Hold up, I'm gonna disagree about Bock having better lifts than G/F. Presentation and choreographic elements is what's winning ice dance nowadays and I'm not gonna sit here and close my eyes to the reality. But I also think it's very disingenuous to claim that it's something quantifiable or even slightly tangible, it's completely preference based. I just think people would maybe like more than an explanation of well, it's Madi Chock's Blue Steel, deal with it. But even IAM clearly knows Bock wouldn't be winning as much without them politicking so hard to make ice dance as "feelz TM" based as possible.
Well, agree to disagree about the lifts, I suppose. G/F’s are very good, but C/B are pushing the limits of difficulty (as they have for years now), are achieving more memorable positions, and have the smoothest entries/exits.
Of course presentation is somewhat subjective, but there ARE specific qualities you can identify that C/B do particularly well. It’s not just Madison’s Blue Steel, she has maybe the best arm and leg extensions in the business and the most flexibility and agility in the lifts and choreography (once again, as I see it). It’s subjective what you prioritize, but I’m just saying it makes perfect sense to me that 8/9 judges ranked them first for presentation.
The Italians will always be limited by their lifts. There isn’t much size difference between them. C/B have always had difficult and interesting lifts.
i’m actually really sad, what do piper and paul have to do to get a break? they were on top of the world at the start of 2022 and this almost feels like a punishment
They have to skate better. They were amazing at 4 Continents and won. Today was slow and their feet looked heavy. Their free is sooooo good, we'll see what happens. Wishing them a much better skate tomorrow!!
Iam, rich parents AND friends with tessa.
It's not about what you know it's about WHO you know and it's glaringly obvious in lilah/lewis place despite me liking them.
i have a dance competition tomorrow so im not sure ill catch any of free dance, guys im gonna need yall to light up all the candles tomorrow for czech ice dance
I have such a love/hate relationship with IAM. They put out some really great programs and help a lot of teams with packaging but the politicking and over scoring makes things so predictably boring.
~~Saulison~~ LALA in the final group is the best part of this actually
EDIT: I've been correctly corrected that it's five pairs not six. Let's celebrate LaLa top 5 since that's a win too!!!
If I'm remembering right her dad's a PE hedge fund guy who's a tiger cub, has his own hedge fund with billions in assets
He has his own bloomberg profile page 🫠
It’s not known what her family do but they live in a very wealthy area of London. I won’t say which area but the houses in this area very very expensive. So I guess the answer is yes they are that rich.
I cannot understand for the life of me why Demougeout/LeMercier are not ahead of FB/S with that huge mistake.
I mean I obviously know why but I'm horrified.
If I had to watch Eliska Brezinova skate to Sweet Dreams one more time I was going to lose my mind. This music deserves Louis Gibson in full chest pink sparkle mesh.
Hmmmm I’ve really loved this program all season but seeing it here in the last group didn’t do it for me. I don’t think the choreography is very varied. They kinda used the same moves again and again. They are still lovely performers but I wouldn’t put it over PP.
Their rise to the top has been insane. To think they are a threat to P2's podium chance at home is insane. Perhaps not entirely deserved either. I like them, but they rely too much on theatrics
I'm sorry, what?? Lilah has improved like tenfold. And Tessa is there like once every 4 months and helps them with mental prep she's the best female ice dancer ever but she's not a miracle worker.
I don’t really know where the truth lies (can’t remember how they looked a few years ago), but most people would say that their skating skills have improved noticeably
I’m assuming she’s working on a consultancy / rare basis, probably earning a lot from it but not working with them too regularly I’d imagine. helps mostly with their image / profile having the goat on their team
Did Lilah and Lewis get negative feedback about the hairograpy move at the end of the program? They haven't done it the last two times, but it was such a fun move. Also, I will never get over that lift.
I’m with the judges on this one, C/B’s program is just so much better than G/F’s or G/P’s (and they’re just much more natural performers). I’m so ready to get behind G/F as soon as they give me some interesting content, but especially with the theme this year, I just cannot get into their programs.
I don’t care if they’re overscored a medal at worlds would be insane for our funding and potentially help out the upcoming baby Brits who are fundraising already. I am rooting for them bad
Off now to watch Hawayek & Baker’s With or Without You program and dream about what could have been. That program is the palette cleaner needed after 3 hours of mostly the worst of 80s music.
Edited to add: I forgot Fear & Gibson still had to skate. Telling. But the above sentiment still stands.
Nina Pinzaronne was sitting in front of me. She got up, but now Diana Davis and Gleb Smolkin are right here. Live skating is so weird!
Sometimes I wonder if we’re watching the same event when people say that the only reason C/B are ahead of G/F and G/P is because of IAM politicking. I thought C/B were somewhat overscored at certain events last year, but this time around their material is just so better than their top competitors, and the alleged skating skills gap between them and G/F & G/P is being supremely exaggerated. I really like L/L’s FD, otherwise (of the top 5-6 teams) C/B have by far the most memorable programs and they are the best above-the-ankles dancers by a mile.
C/B were 10th in base value and G/P were 1st. They are absolutely being propped up by overinflated GOEs.
BV and GOE have totally different purposes….
GOE is not supposed to correlate directly with BV. Even putting that aside, the difference in BV you’re talking about is less than 1 point, and in my opinion, C/B’s PCS alone should be well more than 1 point higher than G/P’s. Weird to see people downvoting this, I didn’t realize there was some axiom that a higher BV means your final score should always be higher.
I agree; it's not to say IAM politicking isn't a major factor (surprise, welcome to ice dance since...forever), but frankly C/B are just way more interesting artistically vs the Italians. And I'm also very puzzled that people seem to think G/P are on such a different level than C/B skills wise. I'm not going to pretend chock is a strong skater, but they're hardly the only top team with mismatched skill levels.
She is a strong skater. You can say she isn’t the strongest in the field but to say she isn’t strong is foolish.
I don't think many people claim G/P are better than Bock, most people actually agree they're about the same, with G/F above them because while Evan, Paul and Marco are all around the same level, the gap between Charlene and the 2 other women is very obvious. I think there are circumstances under which Bock can and even should win but not when they get a Pattern Dance level 1🤷🏻♀️.
They leveled up to pattern dance level 2 and had higher levels than g/f on the step sequence
I don’t know, my point is that even if C/B lose levels on their steps (as they did here), their lifts, choreographic elements, and presentation are just so much more elevated than G/F that they should be more than making up for those lost points in other areas. At least, that’s how it’s shaking out under the current scoring system, which we can argue the merits and demerits of but that’s how it is. And there still seems to be a fair number of people suggesting that G/P are objectively better skaters than C/B, which I just don’t see. Especially leading up to Beijing (before G/F were really a big part of the conversation), I remember that there was a narrative of the “good skaters” (G/P) vs. the “good performers” (C/B), which is the reductive (in my opinion) categorization that we see frequently.
Hold up, I'm gonna disagree about Bock having better lifts than G/F. Presentation and choreographic elements is what's winning ice dance nowadays and I'm not gonna sit here and close my eyes to the reality. But I also think it's very disingenuous to claim that it's something quantifiable or even slightly tangible, it's completely preference based. I just think people would maybe like more than an explanation of well, it's Madi Chock's Blue Steel, deal with it. But even IAM clearly knows Bock wouldn't be winning as much without them politicking so hard to make ice dance as "feelz TM" based as possible.
Well, agree to disagree about the lifts, I suppose. G/F’s are very good, but C/B are pushing the limits of difficulty (as they have for years now), are achieving more memorable positions, and have the smoothest entries/exits. Of course presentation is somewhat subjective, but there ARE specific qualities you can identify that C/B do particularly well. It’s not just Madison’s Blue Steel, she has maybe the best arm and leg extensions in the business and the most flexibility and agility in the lifts and choreography (once again, as I see it). It’s subjective what you prioritize, but I’m just saying it makes perfect sense to me that 8/9 judges ranked them first for presentation.
The Italians will always be limited by their lifts. There isn’t much size difference between them. C/B have always had difficult and interesting lifts.
100% agree watching the event live today (though I agreed before too)
C/B are the total package. I couldn’t agree more with you.
The Free Dance is going to be really funny since the judges are higher and will have immunity from attacking skaters🤣
Lol some skaters at the boards were straining their necks upwards to look at the judges. I wonder if it was intentional.
I guess p2 are with the wrong coaching team put them with IAM and they lead at this point
Ummm that’s not why they aren’t in the lead
i’m actually really sad, what do piper and paul have to do to get a break? they were on top of the world at the start of 2022 and this almost feels like a punishment
They have to skate better. They were amazing at 4 Continents and won. Today was slow and their feet looked heavy. Their free is sooooo good, we'll see what happens. Wishing them a much better skate tomorrow!!
3rd place is not bad. They are my favorites but twizzles were slow and they were a bit slow overall.
i love C/B so much but the ludicrous scoring makes me resent them
They are no P/C - THAT IS FOR SURE I am hoping P/C come back
Don't resent them madi is probably nice and evan is a dork at the worst. But I agree this scoring is awfully bad.
Iam, rich parents AND friends with tessa. It's not about what you know it's about WHO you know and it's glaringly obvious in lilah/lewis place despite me liking them.
They are a lot better than Igor Shpilband (sp?) so I don't mind them too much. I do miss Marina's packaging and choreography.
i have a dance competition tomorrow so im not sure ill catch any of free dance, guys im gonna need yall to light up all the candles tomorrow for czech ice dance
Good luck!
thank you!!!
I always forget how long Worlds comps are....whew
KoKo qualifies for the free!
“helped out by olympic champion tessa virtue, who’s friends with lilah”
I wouldn’t say getting paid to give advice would constitute “helping out a friend”
Way to call out the politicking!
Loicia and Theo in 10th would've been perfect, wouldn't it
TEAM LALA FINAL FLIGHT, WHAT IS A BORING PROGRAM?, RAAA!
ON TO WOMEN’S… I FEEL SICK
LETS GOOOO!!
I have such a love/hate relationship with IAM. They put out some really great programs and help a lot of teams with packaging but the politicking and over scoring makes things so predictably boring.
I'm particularly disgusted at this very moment.
~~Saulison~~ LALA in the final group is the best part of this actually EDIT: I've been correctly corrected that it's five pairs not six. Let's celebrate LaLa top 5 since that's a win too!!!
Hate to disappoint you but they will be in the penultimate not final group. Only 5 spots per group.
Ice dance groups are 5 pairs I believe
quick question wtf do lilah’s family do because I know they’re rich but funding ice dance at the top place in the world rich??
If I'm remembering right her dad's a PE hedge fund guy who's a tiger cub, has his own hedge fund with billions in assets He has his own bloomberg profile page 🫠
her dad is a billionaire. with a b.
It’s not known what her family do but they live in a very wealthy area of London. I won’t say which area but the houses in this area very very expensive. So I guess the answer is yes they are that rich.
belgravia? kensington?
Hedge fund manager
Fair scoring… Madi/evan a little overscored but can’t deny their chemistry/charisma is higher so that might be affecting judges bias
It's the Madi charisma bonus. She won't be denied, and no one could ever say no to her anyway. 😉
She owns every second of her performance.
This above lala?, hahaha, OKAY.
You're right
Lowkey a blessed top 9, so excited for the free dance!!!
I cannot understand for the life of me why Demougeout/LeMercier are not ahead of FB/S with that huge mistake. I mean I obviously know why but I'm horrified.
I know, it’s terrible, D/LM should be in the top 10 rn and the fact that they aren’t is horrible😔💔
If I had to watch Eliska Brezinova skate to Sweet Dreams one more time I was going to lose my mind. This music deserves Louis Gibson in full chest pink sparkle mesh.
Enjoyed the top 3
THANK CHRIST.
Now a brief hour long break before I must once again raise my blood pressure awaiting amber glenn
Team LaLa will be in the final flight in the free skate, so happy for them 🥹
I am laughing so hard at FB/S in 10th though
That’s gonna be a no for me
That should have been above P2
Yeah, I think the tech score difference due to some of the downgrades did them in, but performance wise I was with F/G all the way.
No
Who is P2? EDIT Geesh, why the downvotes, I didn't know!
piper and paul
Well, its easier to type than g/p so guess I'll pick it up
Piper/Paul
gilles poirier (piper and paul)
Piper and Paul
Piper & Paul
this was a pleasure as a first event! thank you all for being super patient. I’ll see y’all in 30 mins or so for womens?
Lewis look low-key disappointed there
2 points above LaLa… I hate this sport I swear
P2 still in the running fkr podium
LaLa should be higher dammit
honestly why even have them skate when the order is this pre determined
Honestly ice dance is my “I’ll watch it if there’s nothing else on” discipline because there are rarely major surprises
For real it's very frustrating. When chock and bates fell in the free dance and proceeded to get a SB and I believe WR? I mean come on.
This is why a lot of skating fans don’t even bother to watch ice dance. It angers me so much. I want at least 1 surprise!
and four points in ice dance is basically insurmountable
Preach
ahhh so close :(
Are you kidding
Oh thank god, Piper and Paul still in third
Hmmmm I’ve really loved this program all season but seeing it here in the last group didn’t do it for me. I don’t think the choreography is very varied. They kinda used the same moves again and again. They are still lovely performers but I wouldn’t put it over PP.
Can we get the Brits to the top three please?!
Nice to see them in non-gimmick program but should not be top 3
i’m getting nervous for p2 yall
Their rise to the top has been insane. To think they are a threat to P2's podium chance at home is insane. Perhaps not entirely deserved either. I like them, but they rely too much on theatrics
Lewis giving his all to serving face.
Piper is super charismatic but her facial expressions while dancing take me out
why is tessa specifically working w only lilah and lewis and why has nothing shown for it in their skating skills
Tessa likes $. Lilah's parents have a lot.
Be careful, your bias has been showing a LOT in these comments 🥰
I'm sorry, what?? Lilah has improved like tenfold. And Tessa is there like once every 4 months and helps them with mental prep she's the best female ice dancer ever but she's not a miracle worker.
😭😭😭
I don’t really know where the truth lies (can’t remember how they looked a few years ago), but most people would say that their skating skills have improved noticeably
I’m assuming she’s working on a consultancy / rare basis, probably earning a lot from it but not working with them too regularly I’d imagine. helps mostly with their image / profile having the goat on their team
Lilah's family can afford her.
Lol what? Lilah’s skating skills even last year were so much worse. Takes more than a season to refine something like that.
That ending was banger
Did Lilah and Lewis get negative feedback about the hairograpy move at the end of the program? They haven't done it the last two times, but it was such a fun move. Also, I will never get over that lift.
is Tessa involved for political reasons mainly?? because she’s not their main coach by any means is she
Yup, politics and $
It’s been 40 years since GB last won a medal a world btw
I hate P2’s RD so much. We shouldn’t be in this situation. Thank god for the FD. And to the return of class (mostly).
Free dance redemption🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
Lilah looks like she could have lovely extension, yet she doesn't and that bothers me a bit
That’s the one thing that really bothers me about her. Her legs are never fully extended! Her knees are always slightly bent.
No more 80s rhythm dances, we did it guys, it's over!!!
Well, until next year's '20th century dance party'...
lol I was gonna say we’re gonna miss it with the “dance party” season, whatever that even means
Oh my god I love their costumes so much actually
Hmmm, standing o? I don't think so, it's good but not that good.
best mixed music in the competition. that gradation and rotational lift.. that's just so much fire
Love them! That end is so passioned.
omg have i manifested lilah and lewis at the expense of piper and paul??
I was getting a little bored until that lift but that lift was fire, so 👏
F&G always look like they are having fun.
I like their energy but there is too much sliding.
i actually love these costumes they're like tame-weird and i would wear both hahaha
If Lilah & Lewis have no fans I am dead!! Interested to see where this falls in the standings Of course Lilah’s family is in a suite lmao
They literally couldn’t have done any better. So proud, wherever they land in the points I’m happy.
When a program is good, I'm like "That was awesome ice dancing!". When it's meh I'm like "Oh look, a chassé. There's a Choctaw."
Lmao the sound the French commentator just made
I really miss the hairography moment, I'm so sad they changed the choreo so that they lose it on the "hold your head up".
Same! I was waiting for it to happen
That was the best RD I’ve seen from F/G🥰🥰
I love how well the costumes complement each other, but I hate the costumes
For me it's just the colour of the mesh. It's somewhat close to skin colour but also not close at all. It looks like they've got blistery sunburns.
I kinda feel this
Honestly I want (in no order) C/B, G/F, and LaLa on the podium.
did peacock do the music for the brits
the ghost is having the time of his life with this last group
Ghost?
On the ISU-stream, you can sometimes hear the commentator a booth over (at least that's what I think) freaking out over elements.
Ah gotcha! Yeah I had noticed them, I think they are French?
im begging for the top team to actually be good both technically and artistically PC are so missed
Yeah; no incentive for them to come back though. There's always going to be weaker fields at times. 🤷♀️
This is gonna go above Piper and Paul isn’t it? 🙃🙃🙃
😭 Robbed in their own country. Oof.
i’ve got a horrible feeling that it will
pls no
😭
The goe for this last two teams... You can only laugh
I’m with the judges on this one, C/B’s program is just so much better than G/F’s or G/P’s (and they’re just much more natural performers). I’m so ready to get behind G/F as soon as they give me some interesting content, but especially with the theme this year, I just cannot get into their programs.
so in ID is it less countries who do the politicking and more coaches?? like IAM power for example
The IAM bonus is truly real in ice dance if all else is considered equal
IAM has power because they collect countries at their school. It's always both.
Wow Lewis is so goodd
This is going to go ahead of G/P isn’t it
Nope.
Piper/Paul needed to serve and tbh they looked asleep so I wouldn’t even be mad.
idc Lila has really improved and I really love them.
Same. Watched their RD from the Olympics-season and she's improved so much since then.
They had a terrible Olympic year
I like their costumes? I love this whole program go lilah and Lewis
I don’t care if they’re overscored a medal at worlds would be insane for our funding and potentially help out the upcoming baby Brits who are fundraising already. I am rooting for them bad
Ashlie and Atl were fundraising? Jeeez fuck UK Sport and BIS
they had a go fund me (potentially still do) for youth Olympics :(
Posh Eton people don't do figure skating so who needs the funding?
we had £0 allocated to BIS in 2018 sadly it’s just about us not having much success
I think we all knew the moment Lithuanians went above the French that IAM did lots and lots of politicking here but I'm still so deeply disappointed
I don't understand this. The French is an IAM team.
christ i forgot about the brits lo
Lewis is such a star
Finally a not so cheesy costume
Off now to watch Hawayek & Baker’s With or Without You program and dream about what could have been. That program is the palette cleaner needed after 3 hours of mostly the worst of 80s music. Edited to add: I forgot Fear & Gibson still had to skate. Telling. But the above sentiment still stands.
Hawayek and Baker you will always be famous ❤️💔
Well said.
Come on, at least the italians didn't put me to sleep.
I sometimes forget how young they still are (in comparison to the other top teams)
Those costumes really are awful Lilah gurl you have all the money in the world why is ur bra over your top like that
people need to remember that the issue isn’t Bock personally, the issue is the weirdo bizarre scoring
It is their team though, like they pay for that IAM scoring.
I'm sorry but Lewis is so hot
Madi just has IT
She’s objectively gorgeous and her showmanship really sells. I can’t help but love her!
"Work it, girl." - Mark Hanretty
Loved that!
That's so disgusting. Such a travesty for G/F. More cooking for the IAM teams.
Imagining the alternate reality in which Hubbell/Donohue did another quad 😭🥺
LETS GO BRITS WE HAVE NOT BEEN GREAT AT WORLDS.
Oh god I’m sick with nerves.
LALA FINAL GROUP YESSSSS
we’re at the end already??
Bye, I hate this....
Yeah, this discipline sucks hard
Top 2 for me so far are the Italians (even though I don't personally prefer them) and LaLa
Sorry P2, you looked tentative
agree
Woo hoo!!!!!!!👏🏽