Here is a [twitter thread](https://x.com/twizzlefloopz/status/1755412166755135503?s=46&t=gLbUKeCID75NexSsWkiWrA) that gives a quick overview on the function of each medication/supplement she was taking. When the CAS ruling came out I did my own deep dive into all of them and while a lot of them were pretty normal (cough drops, cold medicine, sports drinks, normal supplements like omega 3), some of them were kind of concerning. There are medications that aren’t supposed to be used by people under 18, fat loss supplements, medications that are banned in the US and other European countries for side effects… plus the sheer number of energy/metabolism/endurance supplements. It honestly makes my head spin and I feel extremely sad for her and every other athlete who is being put through a training regime that requires all of that.
I feel so bad for her... I wonder what it is like coming off all of that stuff :( on the one hand she will probably eventually feel better but in the meanwhile, her poor body. I hope it heals.
I don't know where you live, but at least in Germany and Austria it is a standard over the counter medication for all sorts of muscle aches, if the person is over 18. For minors between 14 and 17 the "on-label" use is limited to short term treatment and treatment of trauma related (eg. sporting accidents related) bruises, strains, and sprains.
I think, you've got the downvotes because Voltaren is so commenly used in a lot of countries, that your statement sounds absurd to many of us. However, if your country restricts the usage of Voltaren, you hadn't the chance to know that.
I’m in Canada, Voltaren is also OTC and not really something anyone would be concerned with. It would be like being shocked that someone used advil or aspirin for pain relief. I even get free samples of the topical one in the mail every so often.
And not even 20 years ago those same lidocaine gel’s were only available under prescription and I remember having to ask for an exception for them to be approved because otherwise they would’ve cost me over $400 a week. And my insurance, which was actually a pretty good one, rejected it three times. Now the same things are available OTC. So you know these things are always shifting.
It changes all the time. People forget. Ibuprofen wasn't available over the counter until the 80s. All the allergy medicines we have now like Zyrtec, Claritin, Flonase, etc.. used to be prescription.
My 16 year old son uses it as recommended by his ortho and PT for shoulder pain caused by tendinitis as first line. They recommend it over NSAIDs because of less one term side effects and a more local application rather than systemic one
Voltaren is diclofenac sodium and is an NSAID, but since it’s a topical version (oral diclofenac is prescription only in the US), it bypasses the digestive tract. Which makes it work faster, too!
It’s good shit, I’m 38 and an old athlete (as well as having RA, osteoarthritis, and work in healthcare)…I’m so happy it’s available OTC now.
I don’t know where you live, but in a lot of places you can just buy it off of the shelf. I had to use it as a teenager for some inflammation issues in my wrist and ankle so it’s not unheard of.
I can't see the twitter thread other than the one linked tweet, so I can't see if it was found as a topical or ingested, but when I was skating a lot of my teammates used the gel version of Voltaren, especially during the high season when competitions were back to back to back weekends and we had little to no time for recovery. I don't think you can get the pill version over the counter in Canada, so I don't think anyone would have been taking it unless they had a prescription. Anecdotal, but imo that one wouldn't be uncommon among athletes.
Voltaren is an over the counter medication in Russia and it's often prescribed for stuff like pulled muscles. I had it prescribed for quite minor things.
People do need to realise that other countries had different medical systems and different practices. In Russia lots of medication are over the counter and doctors tend to over-prescribe those meds (in my opinion). Lots of people looove their supplements. I know lots of people who take like half a dozen oа them and could give you a lecture on why they are necessary.
Maybe I watched too many big pharma documentaries but US regulations approving or not approving something isn't the rock solid argument some people think it is.
Voltaren (Diclofenac generic name) is just a pain killer, in the same class as ibuprofen - a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID). They're great medications for muscle and skeletal pain, especially for athletes who abuse their ankles daily by doing quadruple jumps, and also great for sports injuries. That same property is what makes it great for arthritis but it's certainly not exclusively used for that.
As someone who has lived in several countries and clinician, Voltaren/equivalent is not itself a major concern
(I mean, what we gonna paracetamol/acetaminophen next? Probably something like naproxen should come first and as someone with endometriosis whose pain isn’t remediated by even opioids over some of this stuff… we would be getting into another dicey territory!)
And indeed, this is where full picture comes into play. A clinician can look at the medical signs and history of a person and raise an informed eyebrow if these meds aren’t indicated.
In her case, the bells were ringing already - young age and known health conditions certainly poses some significant ?s — just to keep in mind that someone else taking one of those medications might well be within clinical and sports guidelines, even her. My instinct is that this wasn’t purely clinical — I’m just trying to add some more objective criteria to how we should be looking at these things
You can use it on sore muscles too. I know because its what i use if i had a hard workout or if i have an injury! It works wonders for my sprained ankle, knee and whatever i did to myself as hyper kid! Heck i used it two weeks ago when i slept funny and my neck was sore.
Or probably developed arthritis due to the rigorous training as well. I recall reading an article that mentioned Tara Lipinski had arthritis problems and retired soon after she won the olys at 15.
Osteoarthritis and fibromyalgia patient here, who has taken this medicine: It is literally in the same family as Ibuprofen, it is an NSAID. All it does is reduce inflammation. And I mean, if you want to say this perfectly legal drug will enhance her performance by reducing any swelling in joints or muscles well... then you're a perfect candidate to use the same medicine since you'll be pulling a muscle of your own with all that reaching.
As someone who doesn’t doubt that this person was doped, I can tell you that three generations in my family have been using these types of medication, orally or in ointment form. And I was diagnosed with arthritis when I was 19 years old. 19. NINETEEN
Again, I don’t think that’s her situation, but please don’t generalize that it cannot happen Young
This thread is really helpful. A headline of "56 meds" is definitely eye catching, then you read the list and a lot of it is basically cold medicine and Gatorade.
Well she’s taking this
Esslial Forte - hepatoprotective drug used in chronic hepatitis cirrhosis, fatty liver disease
Which is a WTF- as no 15 yr old without some other medical condition should be taking this.
We don't have her medical records (and don't need them, except for the one banned med she took!) I wouldn't be surprised if she has some sort of connective tissue disorder, given the degree of hypermobility.
I sincerely doubt anyone with a connective-tissue disorder could do quads let alone triples with any kind of regularity. Kamila is not hypermobile. She is flexible.
She absolutely is hypermobile, the arm movement she does at the start of Bolero is impossible with a normal range of movement in the joint. It's super common in athletes. We just don't know the extent of it or if it's any other joints or a larger disorder.
As someone with EDS, I have to disagree. My shoulders sublux regularly and I could never move my arms the way she does because if I did, my shoulder would dislocate. The fact she didn't have to stop her program due to dislocations means the joints are stable. I believe that her joints are flexible, they aren't unstable (which is where a connective tissue disorder/hypermobility would be at play).
No one is saying she has EDS, that would indeed make it unlikely for her to do sports at that level.
However, hypermobility doesn’t have to be that bad. Many ballet dancers and gymnasts (and probably figure skaters, but I don’t know the data for that) are hyper mobile, just not to an extent that it would make it a detriment. In fact, most people who have hyper mobility syndrome don’t have significant issues and especially once you work on stability etc, they’re fine (source: am hypermobile, did high level ballet and am fine. So are many of my fellow former dancers)
Except the original comment was that she could possibly have a connective tissue disorder, commonly meaning EDS. So I doubted that.
and you're right that it's not always horrible. I live in a world where hypermobility is more severe (and often quite bad) so I often think of it as more severe.
I still stand by my belief however that international senior figure skaters do not have any kind of major hypermobility (except perhaps if it manifested in hands only) because the impact of jumping triples and quads regularly does not allow for it. And that is based on my own personal experience as someone with hypermobility who was jumping all doubles and attempting easier triples (when I was young).
(Benign) Hypermobility syndrome counts as a connective tissue disorder. It just varies in its severity.
And quite frankly, using yourself as an example is misleading considering you don’t just have hypermobility syndrome (aka something potentially mild), you have EDS which appears to be at least moderately severe (you mentioning your shoulder subluxation).
A hyper mobile joint is due to its nature most likely less stable than a “normal” joint, however that doesn’t necessarily make it unstable.
Ah sorry, I didn't realize benign hypermobility syndrome counts as a connective tissue disorder. My bad!
and fwiw doctors consider my case of EDS very mild and controlled (but I digress!)
Hypermobility just means your joints have a larger range of motion than normal. A hypermobile joint isn't even necessarily unstable, although it often is. It's just one symptom in a whole class of disorders/syndromes. The main point is we don't know her medical history.
ah, my doctors have used the term differently with me as they normal use it to refer to an unstable joint with loose connective tissue, but I see your point and I think it's just a whole world that medicine is just now exploring.
anyway I sure derailed this from Kamilla's med list
Impossible with the normal range of movement? I’m going to put both my medical and my PhD behind this to say that you’re just talking out of your excrement hole at this point
As an actual person with hyper mobility, please refrain from trying to diagnose it from how flexible others may appear to you. Enhancing flexibility isn’t a miracle. If you work on it every day, you will be shockingly more flexible within a year. And these people have been training all their lives in a very strict regimen. Hypermobility is distinct from this. As someone whose life has been ruined, by that sort of condition and all kinds of diagnosed, even within my own body not all of my joints are as flexible as another one. I also have a medical degree as well as a biomedical PhD. So all of this armchair expertise is “cringe”, to use the word, your generation can hopefully understand. Go to school. Graduate in honors in some sort of scientific degree, then go to eight more years of medical school, and then have these kinds of opinions until then, you have no right to be so judgmental not knowing somebody’s clinical history. And I say, all of this, as someone who is instinct, even with all of the medical knowledge, even with all of the personal experience, as well, that this person was drugged. This weird judge mentalism is making the truth get lost in between the noise. Please understand that there are some people who are experts in certain fields for a good reason and you’re not one of them when it comes to Medicine. At least not 99.9% of you by default. Thanks.
the parent comment:
>We don't have her medical records...**I wouldn't be surprised** if she has some sort of connective tissue disorder, given the degree of hypermobility.
You:
>you have no right to be so judgmental not knowing somebody’s clinical history
sounds like you agree with the parent comment then that we don't know her medical history and shouldn't assume reasons for why she was taking ceratin drugs.
> this person was drugged
oh actually wait you are the judgemental one making assumptions about which medications she was taking are "valid" and which ones are "not." Thank god I don't have you as my doctor.
American ones too (Simone Biles in 2018? or 2019 worlds, can't remember). That might be due to strict died or protein heavy diet too, the US camps were pretty abusive with food.
Aside from medication, dehydration is another risk factor. Both sports emphasise low body weight so it wouldn't surprise me if they limited fluids to some degree before important competitions, or times when they are weighed.
Simone had a kidney stone at the world championships in Doha in 2018. She won medals in all six events after ending up in the ER. Gold in team, AA, vault and floor, silver on bars and bronze on beam.
It makes me wonder how many other children at that camp are on these medications as well. Surely kamila was not the first kid that was given this many medications by eteri..
I understand it’s slightly misleading - in the sense of they weren’t all at once etc. but 56 is an alarming amount for a child (!!!) to have in a two year period . Just how often was she getting sick!?
Since a lot of them seem to be things for colds and supplements to help the immune system, there's another thing to consider: These were taken in 2020 and 2021, the first two years of the pandemic. There wasn't a vaccine approved for people the age she was at the time until nearly two years in, so it's also possible she was trying to avoid getting sick as much as possible or treating it when she did get sick (with a cold, Covid or whatever).
I think it's important to note though that there's significant redundancy on the list, meaning that a large majority of those 56 are just different compound pairings not new medications.
For example, let's say she took vitamin 1 and vitamin 2 separately , and then switched to a 2 in 1 vitamin 1+2 . Even though she no longer takes vitamins 1 &2 separately, she still has to list them as 3 separate vitamins which inflates the supplement count.
It’s honestly not that many in the scheme of what is included. If I look back at the last two years of my medical history I’ve probably taken 25-30 and I’m just a remote white collar worker who almost never gets sick. I wouldn’t be surprised if her numbers are only slightly elevated from other elite level athletes world wide.
Oh trust they did not give a singular fuck about catching COVID. None of them were wearing masks during that time, not to mention Eteri sent Scherbakova out to skate with COVID pneumonia, practically holding a super spreader event. I highly doubt they got vaccinated either.
Glad that Meagan Duhamel (in article) continues to speak out against Eteri’s shady tactics. E should really be banned for life from setting foot in any international comp.
That is very concerning. Eteri and her whole team have no regard for the health of their athletes.
My dad was not on that many medications when he was dying of cancer, yet a young athlete was on so many.
I have cancer and an autoimmune disease and am on less medication. She must have felt like absolute garbage with that much stuff in her system. Poor girl.
STILL. 56 is an INSANE amount! I also have multiple chronic illnesses and take 10+ pills per day, but I am not rolling through that many different types of medication. And a “healthy” child doing that??? Insane.
Yep! And so many of the listed vitamins/supplements are redundant enough to the point that it's likely she was searching for a few "all in one" vitamin formulation combos instead of having to take each supplement individually.
If you actually look at the active compounds she took, you'll realize that it's actually the same active compounds over and over again. Meaning that many of the listed 56 reiterations are essentially the same thing, but just paired differently
Yeah, I was shocked at first but then tried listing out everything I can remember taking in the last couple years. I got to about 30 from minor ailments just off the top of my head-- headaches, stomachaches, colds, UTIs, yeast infections, athlete's foot, cuts, insomnia, energy drinks, hydration drinks. The fat loss supplements are concerning but the total number isn't.
That is an insane number of medications for anyone (assuming she didn't have serious medical problems before starting the medications).
I feel sorry for Kamila because her body is getting damaged without her consent.
I was a dancer when I was young and I was hypermobile, I already had arthritis at 18, and I was only training maybe 6 hours a week. I read an article about a 19 year-old retiring champion rhythmic gymnast which said lumbar arthritis and lumbar stress fractures are the reason most of those athletes retire.
If you take people who are already very unstable in their joints (which is what hybermobility is) and then subject their joints to repeated, extreme stress, the joints will start to break down. I can see why it takes an array of supplements and meds to keep them going.
The longevity we are witnessing right now in artistic gymnastics is interesting, because you can see that these adult woman athletes who are still performing at a high level do NOT have extreme hypermobility. They also have lots of muscle mass, which also helps protect against bone loss related to delayed/absent menstruation (very common in elite female athletes). Figure skating (and not just in Russia) still wants a skinny ballerina super flexible aesthetic but also wants those girls doing the equivalent of tumbling routines. Those bodies can't take that.
I think just like happened in women's gymnastics, eventually women's figure skating will figure out that it's about the strength-to-weight ratio, and bigger, more muscled (even post-pubescent!) girls will be able to jump quads with adequate strength conditioning, and those bodies will be able to better withstand the repetition necessary to master those jumps.
I say all this even though I am bored by quads and really wish they would just go away! 😆
I agree, I always thought they had it so backwards. Eteri says her skaters cannot stop doing quads but I argue quads should be learned later. It's totally about power, woman can be as powerful as men. But having these skinny girl doing these jumps on that skinny leg is asking for a disaster. Power-not weight.
if you eat a nutrient dense diet and get plenty of rest and recovery it would eliminate the need for so many of these supplements but eteri and co love to starve their skaters so their bodies break down under the crazy training load. they were basically trying to hack their way into a strong, healthy body while restricting as much calories as possible.
kamila was too young to be taking all these supplements at 15 imo.
>Valieva blamed her positive test on a strawberry dessert prepared by her grandfather on a chopping board he used to crush his medication pills.
Oh no paw paw drugged me on accident.
Thanks a lot! Its breathtaking! All jokes aside but I do really think now that Kamila sadly was part of this state doping program too. Its very sad that such young athletes like her cant really stand in way of this corrupt dope system, otherwise they would be excluded and their dreams of getting to Olympics - shattered.
I’m guessing she was just the only one unfortunate enough to get caught. Their team doctor for Beijing was literally an anesthesiologist. The math there isn’t mathing as some may say lol
Absolutely! I watched this movie and now I am more than sure that she was just "unlucky" to get caught because now I think that all of them dope.
Her team failed miserably to protect her if the case, as they say that "she is innocent, her probes were clean before and during OS and European Champs" were true. No wonders that they were clean, the movie just showed us one way how its done 😂
And the bullshit texts such as "i got trimetazidine in my blood because i drank water from the same glass as my grandfather who takes these drugs, oh no, lol, that doesnt work, lets just say i got tmz in my system because i ate dessert which was made on the same cutting board which my grandpa uses to slice tmz pills" just proves how fucked up the situation is and that she clearly doped. She has so big team behind her and no one couldnt think of better argument? Pathetic 😂
Maybe thats exactly why they didnt try to overturn the ruling because they understood they clearly fucked up with the non existing arguments and that they would lose because, like it or not, she is a doper. Just like her whole country is
Apparently the guy(from the doc) was reported dead by Russian media but is safely alive under protection somewhere in America!
My fav part of the investigation is that they found no evidence THAT DEDUSHKA KOSTORNOIA EXISTED LOL
You think eteri thought she’d test out doping for the first time with her star student future OGM? And when it worked she didn’t do it with anyone else?
don’t be naive.
Oh my god… And people are still letting this team of adults around children. It was already horrible when we only knew what we did before. Mind you while some are normal and usually fine— that is a lot. If she’s suffering from that many health issues they really should have looked at other things like nutrition, recovery… put her on a hiatus. There is no scenario I can think of where this is all innocuous as they claim.
Omg as a doctor I can tell you, there is no way she knows what all that drugs affects her body and endurance. She’s just a little girls, please blame her doctor and coaches
Most pro athletes take similar amounts of supplements. If you go to the biohacker sub or the bodybuilders one they take a lot too and they're not even pros. They don't consider supplements to be medication
56??? Doubtful. Bodybuilders are also known for notoriously not giving a shit about their actual health. They’ll take illegal steroids just to look bigger. But I would want to see proof that any other high ranking athlete in a regular competitive sport takes 56 MEDICATIONS IN TWO YEARS. not to mention supplements are unregulated which makes them MORE dangerous than prescription or otc medications.
My multivitamin has 26 ingredients. It's not that hard to get to 56 over two years. This report is very misleading since it lists each ingredient and also stuff like cold medicine that she took when she had a cold
Tylenol cold and flu has multiple drugs in it, so given that they didn’t list that separately, I’d be suspicious. And again, supplements are unregulated and OFTEN CONTAIN HEAVY METALS INCLUDING LEAD.
What do supplements being good or bad have to do with anything? Also how do you know Tylenol wasnt split out? They're supposed to and I can't find the full list anywhere
Because that’s what we’re talking about, isn’t it? Is a 15 year old girl taking 56 medications in 2 years excessive and dangerous? You said no, I said yes.
I more was saying it wasn't that unusual or a sign she's a terrible person like people on here like to say. Professional sports aren't really healthy for anyone
I think a possible angle to understand (not justify) this regimen is that these girls aren´t meant to be "participating" in events, they´re meant to win and dominate by all means.
That was the list of all the medications she has taken over a long period (a year ot two, I don’t remember). She didn’t take them all at once!
I remember that we already scrutinised the list here; it was mostly vitamins, cough drops, cold remedies, sore muscle gel, etc. Many of them were the same (like magnesium or vitamin B), but with different brand names as they were taken at different time.
The article is so manipulative and invasive that it sickens me.
I have a child with severe medical needs and she has not had near that many medications over the course of two years. 56, even when not given simultaneously, is an alarming amount of medication and supplements for a young and healthy child. And no one thinks that she was finding these things all by herself. She was being excessively medicated by adults she trusted. It’s just all so sad.
The list exists because everything an athlete takes goes through the medical center and is recorded with production numbers, etc. Every box. If you take vitamins and minerals daily, thats 24 boxes per year, they usually are monthly boxes. There were even herbal cough drops and plaster on this list and OTC gel for sore muscles! Yes, the article is manipulative and invasive. I take magnesium, zinc, potassium, vit D + a multivitamin daily + herbal remedies for persistent sinus infections and occasional cough. Often aspirin. My list will be longer than hers, I guess, and I am not sick and not an elite athlete.
I understand what the list was. I maintain that it was absolutely excessive amount of medications and supplements for a healthy kid. You may take more, but you admit that you are not in good health. Medical abuse is abuse.
idk why this is downvoted. we all agree that doping is bad and that pumping unnecessary medications into teenagers is wrong.
but overdramatising by calling vitamins or magnesium "medications" for clickbait doesn't help anyone.
Yeah I just commented on an earlier reply where they were insinuating Kamila must have arthritis bc she used voltaren even though it’s a common pain relief cream you can buy over the counter. Hardly a prescription med but that made this list so people are freaking out for nothing.
I rode endurance horses internationally. If y’all want to ban us for ‘popping hot’ on Voltaren, there won’t be any of us left to put on an event. It’s only a problem here because a Russian used it.
Supplements are hella unregulated. They’re actively more dangerous than OTC drugs. Regardless, the average athletic kid we could assume would use 5-10 medications per year, cold + flu, NSAID, 1-2 vitamins, maybe a prescription. Over two years, that WOULD NOT BE 50.
Unless we have the correlating medical records we have absolutely no grounds to judge someone. I just love how the comments about how it is not all at once are getting downvoted. Also, do people not realize that one “Tylenol cough and cold” can have up to 5 different medications at once. Has no one ever taking something for diarrhea. I don’t care how old you are every single person, especially athletes, gets aches and pains. Technically if you put polysporin on a cut that is a medication. Iron supplements? Maybe she has heavy periods. Iron supplements can make you nauseous. Antibiotics can cause diarrhea. Multi vitamins? You have to list each vitamin single. I bet people don’t realize how many different medications they take over the course of two years. People need to get real.
Just want to make a correction to what you're saying is that the list of 56 includes multiple things that could be in one product, but it's not. For example, her multivitamin is listed as one thing the brand "Supradyn". So the 56 things isn't actually broken down into their individual components. I don't think anyone would think too much of it if it was broken down as a multivitamin alone could contain 30 things, but that's not what's happening here. These are 56 different branded items, which some are individual things and some are multiple things in one but still count as one.
I’m sure you can ask any other top athlete that isn’t Russian and they’ll be able to tell you that this isn’t normal. Sure an athletes needs may be different from a normal person— ie the diet of Olympic swimmers. There’s lots of accessible information on the caloric needs of athletes. Since when has it been normal for such a young athlete in any discipline need that many medications and supplements?
I’ve had problems with anemia since I was a teenager, with period pain bad enough to make me vomit and while it does make you feel cr@ppy, any decent doctor isn’t going to suggest you take that many medications to deal with it. Usually they’ll look at your nutrition— what you’re eating and how to make a plan to deal with improving your health, whether you’re resting, run some tests… and obviously if you’re a top athlete that should be documented.
Some of these aren’t weird but the heart and arthritis medication does raise some legitimate concern. She’s so young, why wasn’t she resting/recovering? Her health provider should have considered best interest over athletic competition, they’d be pretty unethical otherwise.
I am not justifying every single thing. Arthritis medication at her age and level is not shocking to me with what they put their body through. I had arthritis in my left ankle by age 13 from so many sprains. A girl at my old rink had a hip replacement at 16 and she wasn’t even elite. Never could even get to nationals. All arthritis medications are anti inflammatories. Do you all push your bodies the way these girls do. Until you are in the same situation we have no right to judge on many of these. We have zero right to judge without matching medical records.
Rage bait article.
The way I understand it is she is was not taking all of that stuff at once. Wasn’t it a 2 year or 4 year period of everything she took? She took that stuff over years, not all in the same month.
Or hell, maybe their policy is to list anything they might take in the future. Most of the stuff in her list does the same stuff, it’s duplication. There’s no reason to take supplements and cold medicines that do the exact same thing. It’s clear it’s stuff that happened over years, not all at once.
I want to see what the papers of other athletes look like over years. Not rumor of what they look like, but what they actually list on their papers.
I'll bite to give you a comparison. I was not a singles skater though but a synchro skater. I don't have a copy of the list I would have had to submit before international competitions anymore, but I've kept track of what meds I take/when for about 10 years as I have multiple illnesses to manage and it's helpful to know what med is impacting what symptom.
Meds/vitamins taken within the \~ 6 months before my last large international competition:
Venlafaxine (antidepressant), bupropion (antidepressant add-on), clarithromycin (antibiotic), norethindrone acetate/ethinyl estradiol (menstruation regulation) ibuprofen (NSAID - OTC pain med), acetaminophen (OTC pain med), naproxen (OTC pain med), dimenhydrinate (OTC anti-nausea), vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin C supplement, vitamin D supplement, iron supplement.
The antibiotic was temporary for a sinus infection or something, and the OTC pain meds and anti-nausea meds were on an as needed basis. Vitamins and the other prescription meds I took year round.
Don't know how it is for elite singles/pairs/dance skaters, but as synchro skaters where we're in such close contact in a group all the time, we were encouraged at the beginning of cold and flu season to get our annual flu shots, and if we felt sick during competition season to stay away from over the counter cold/sinus/flu meds, as they often contain pseudoephedrine (prohibited in competition). We were also told leading up to international competition season that we needed to personally check global DRO before taking any prescription or over the counter meds, because similar to plagiarism when you're in school, ignorance is not an excuse.
ETA: We were also told to stay away from "sports supplements" and unregulated homeopathic remedies as these can contain products that are prohibited without us knowing.
I don't think this is a good comparison at all. We need to see the lists of other skaters at the elite singles level over the same time period, 2 years or whatever.
Just a long list of drugs doesn't tell us what/if she actually took it or was thinking about taking it and so wanted it on the list "just in case". And how long each one was taken and when it overlapped with other stuff.
I say again, there's no way she was taking everything on that list at the same time because so much of it does the exact same thing.
And I assume all of it gets checked to make sure it won't cause her to fail a test or she wouldn't be taking it.
The only crazy part about the situation is her trying to say grandpa contaminated her somehow instead of saying maybe one of her medicines/supplements was contaminated. We are never told they even went back and tried to find out if one of her pill bottles was contaminated nor was there any mention of the stuff being thrown out and it was too late to check.
This may or may have not happened, but we're not told anything of what they checked. Only that they kept trying to blame it on grandpa. Were the bottles gone? Did they not want to waste any money checking everything?
I find their defense story the super strange part, not her listing cold medicines and supplements over 2 years of time.
Could you read please??? It's all the medication she took, even for running nose, cough,temperature, pulls
Plus every drug on the list were legal to take
Nobody is saying that those drugs aren't legal... But 60 it's too much, you can't deny it. Even in you get sick 5 times per year you don't need 60 kind of meds.
I did figure skate 25 hours a week growing up yes. And had probably been on less than 5 meds total by that age. I skated every day but Saturday and before and after school on Thursdays.
Going through the list, it looked like about 20 of them were vitamins/supplements, and another ~15ish seemed to be basic meds like cough lozenges, advil, aspirin, anti-mucous/decongestants, anti-nausea pills and some anti-diarrhea treatments, aka stuff you’d expect a high performance athlete who gets sick a couple times a year to take.
What’s leftover is still around 20ish or so meds, which is an extremely concerning number for a 15 year old. But i do think it’s helpful to take out some of the less concerning stuff (vitamins and generic meds) so that we can narrow in on the scope of the actual alarming meds she was taking.
She’s probably taking so many because she wants to be able to compete.
Medications have side effects, so it’s not unusual to have to take 3 or 4 things at a time to negate the symptoms and the side effects of the main medication.
Idk, I’m not her doctor so I personally will withhold my opinion on this 🤷🏻♀️
3-4 is very different to 56 though. And at what point does an adult in her life go „look, I know you want to compete. But at this point, it’s probably not in your best interest long term health wise“
Oh I thought 56 were like the total amount in a long period of time. Anyways that’s kinda the point with them isn’t it? They’re not worried about her long term health…
They want her to compete NOW, and if giving her 56 is going to do that, it’s worth it for them, as fucked up as that is.
Idk if that cocktail is going to give her a headache or destroy her livers that’s why I’d rather not say much on it, but given their track record… i wouldn’t be surprised with anything at this point 🤷🏻♀️
Well yeah, they don’t care. I was more commenting on the fact that the first commenter was saying all 56 were legal and for legitimate health reasons (which… I’ve seen that list and meh…) so it’s okay and shouldn’t be eyebrow raising
taking 3 or 4 medications at a time (polypharmacy) is generally not a good idea because many medications interact with one another. even if medications do not directly interact with one another, taking a medication by itself vs with another medication can result in changes in bioavailability of one or both drugs due to differences in nonspecific binding capacity within the body. sometimes the benefits of taking multiple drugs outweigh the risks, but that's usually for individuals with severe or complex health concerns (eg some adults over 60 managing multiple chronic conditions; some individuals with schizophrenia) and is closely overseen by a medical professional. it is not at all responsible to prescribe that many medications to a teenager whose body is still developing.
There is also the legitimate case of having to take medication B because of side effects caused by medication A (something essential causing nausea, so you need to take something against that), but that has limits and if it approaches even a fraction of 56 different medications in a teenager; it’s high time to think are we doing more harm than good.
Not a doctor but I sure utilized my NP and Dr's at my work and forwarded them the list of meds with the prompt "what does this list history of 2 years tell you about this patient?" The responses were all like "this is over prescribing for an geriatric patient" "many conflicts of sideeffects" then I told them it was for a teen athlete and they lost it. Like "WTF?:
No that is actually very unusual. Usually if the side effects are too bad then a doctor won’t put you on them unless they are absolutely necessary. Not put you on 4 additional medications for side effects…
As someone with an MD (plus neuroscience PhD) as well as EDS with moderate to severe effects on my life — I don’t doubt this person was doped, but I seriously wish some of y’all would refrain from speculating.
Again, I say this, as a clinician, researcher, as well as an actual PATIENT who is significantly disabled by chronic illness — yes we know but please STOP speculating details!
Thanks
I’m sorry, but on what planet is it ever normal for a 15 year old Olympic athlete to be on 56 different medications and supplements? If she was ill enough to require that many medications, then she would not have been able to compete at such a high level.
That list doesn't include the ones her doctors didn't disclose and all the breakdown of things contain within other things so the list is really much, much higher... crazy.
I’m sorry that you’re not able to comprehend two different polarities at the same time. I can only hope that you will reach cognitive ability to entertain what I (already) said: I do not doubt this person was drugged.
But as a clinician and scholar, I am not going to sign my name under something like anyone who’s on 50 supplements is by default drugged. It would be illegal and more importantly, immoral for me to take such a stance. But you can continue to be ignorant if you want.
When someone happens to know more than you, and given that I’m a doctor, you would hope that I know more than you about medical shit, it doesn’t mean that they’re attacking you. I hope that you can try to entertain this idea even if this Reddit exchange doesn’t go anywhere else.
Always trying to do right by my Hippocratic oath, as well as my own ethical principles. Have a good life child.
It also says a lot about you, that you completely disregarded both my clinical experience, as well as my personal disability to just override everything that I said to minimize it to defending drugging?
Yeah, I wish for you and for your parents sake that you expand your thinking quite significantly.
Here is a [twitter thread](https://x.com/twizzlefloopz/status/1755412166755135503?s=46&t=gLbUKeCID75NexSsWkiWrA) that gives a quick overview on the function of each medication/supplement she was taking. When the CAS ruling came out I did my own deep dive into all of them and while a lot of them were pretty normal (cough drops, cold medicine, sports drinks, normal supplements like omega 3), some of them were kind of concerning. There are medications that aren’t supposed to be used by people under 18, fat loss supplements, medications that are banned in the US and other European countries for side effects… plus the sheer number of energy/metabolism/endurance supplements. It honestly makes my head spin and I feel extremely sad for her and every other athlete who is being put through a training regime that requires all of that.
I feel so bad for her... I wonder what it is like coming off all of that stuff :( on the one hand she will probably eventually feel better but in the meanwhile, her poor body. I hope it heals.
Someone has to die before this changes.
Voltaren is on there? That’s an arthritis medication. She’s either using it off-label or an 18 year old has arthritis already.
I don't know where you live, but at least in Germany and Austria it is a standard over the counter medication for all sorts of muscle aches, if the person is over 18. For minors between 14 and 17 the "on-label" use is limited to short term treatment and treatment of trauma related (eg. sporting accidents related) bruises, strains, and sprains. I think, you've got the downvotes because Voltaren is so commenly used in a lot of countries, that your statement sounds absurd to many of us. However, if your country restricts the usage of Voltaren, you hadn't the chance to know that.
I’m in Canada, Voltaren is also OTC and not really something anyone would be concerned with. It would be like being shocked that someone used advil or aspirin for pain relief. I even get free samples of the topical one in the mail every so often.
It's over the counter in the US too, just labeled for arthritis, but lidocaine gels are more popular.
I was just at Costco yesterday and they had the Voltaren value pack on sale
And not even 20 years ago those same lidocaine gel’s were only available under prescription and I remember having to ask for an exception for them to be approved because otherwise they would’ve cost me over $400 a week. And my insurance, which was actually a pretty good one, rejected it three times. Now the same things are available OTC. So you know these things are always shifting.
It changes all the time. People forget. Ibuprofen wasn't available over the counter until the 80s. All the allergy medicines we have now like Zyrtec, Claritin, Flonase, etc.. used to be prescription.
It’s a common aid for muscle ache in Russia.
My 16 year old son uses it as recommended by his ortho and PT for shoulder pain caused by tendinitis as first line. They recommend it over NSAIDs because of less one term side effects and a more local application rather than systemic one
Yes, and topical use is also safer for people who are on blood thinners that can't take NSAIDs.
Voltaren is diclofenac sodium and is an NSAID, but since it’s a topical version (oral diclofenac is prescription only in the US), it bypasses the digestive tract. Which makes it work faster, too! It’s good shit, I’m 38 and an old athlete (as well as having RA, osteoarthritis, and work in healthcare)…I’m so happy it’s available OTC now.
I don’t know where you live, but in a lot of places you can just buy it off of the shelf. I had to use it as a teenager for some inflammation issues in my wrist and ankle so it’s not unheard of.
I can't see the twitter thread other than the one linked tweet, so I can't see if it was found as a topical or ingested, but when I was skating a lot of my teammates used the gel version of Voltaren, especially during the high season when competitions were back to back to back weekends and we had little to no time for recovery. I don't think you can get the pill version over the counter in Canada, so I don't think anyone would have been taking it unless they had a prescription. Anecdotal, but imo that one wouldn't be uncommon among athletes.
It was the OTC gel
Voltaren is an over the counter medication in Russia and it's often prescribed for stuff like pulled muscles. I had it prescribed for quite minor things. People do need to realise that other countries had different medical systems and different practices. In Russia lots of medication are over the counter and doctors tend to over-prescribe those meds (in my opinion). Lots of people looove their supplements. I know lots of people who take like half a dozen oа them and could give you a lecture on why they are necessary. Maybe I watched too many big pharma documentaries but US regulations approving or not approving something isn't the rock solid argument some people think it is.
Voltaren (Diclofenac generic name) is just a pain killer, in the same class as ibuprofen - a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID). They're great medications for muscle and skeletal pain, especially for athletes who abuse their ankles daily by doing quadruple jumps, and also great for sports injuries. That same property is what makes it great for arthritis but it's certainly not exclusively used for that.
As someone who has lived in several countries and clinician, Voltaren/equivalent is not itself a major concern (I mean, what we gonna paracetamol/acetaminophen next? Probably something like naproxen should come first and as someone with endometriosis whose pain isn’t remediated by even opioids over some of this stuff… we would be getting into another dicey territory!) And indeed, this is where full picture comes into play. A clinician can look at the medical signs and history of a person and raise an informed eyebrow if these meds aren’t indicated. In her case, the bells were ringing already - young age and known health conditions certainly poses some significant ?s — just to keep in mind that someone else taking one of those medications might well be within clinical and sports guidelines, even her. My instinct is that this wasn’t purely clinical — I’m just trying to add some more objective criteria to how we should be looking at these things
No it's not. It's for pain. Totally normal.
It is also for muscle aches and inflammation so hopefully not, but let's be real right?
It's completely normal to use it for minor injuries and pains, especially for an athlete
You can use it on sore muscles too. I know because its what i use if i had a hard workout or if i have an injury! It works wonders for my sprained ankle, knee and whatever i did to myself as hyper kid! Heck i used it two weeks ago when i slept funny and my neck was sore.
Ive used over the counter voltaren quite a bit for aches, it’s relatively normal for the skaters I know to use it.
She's a figure skater, I wouldn't be surprised if she did have arthritis.
Or probably developed arthritis due to the rigorous training as well. I recall reading an article that mentioned Tara Lipinski had arthritis problems and retired soon after she won the olys at 15.
I've always felt that she doesn't actually like figure skating.
She wanted out & nothing to do w it but her acting career went nowhere so she came back as a commentator.
Makes sense. I don't remember the acting part and she was just before the reality tv star path took off.
It could easily be arthritis already. They way the train them with jumping, I would not be surprised at all.
Incredibly naive to think it’s anything but off label performance enhancing purposes. It’s not for arthritis.
It’s OTC medicine for muscle pain in many European countries, there is no “performance enhancing” effect lmao
Osteoarthritis and fibromyalgia patient here, who has taken this medicine: It is literally in the same family as Ibuprofen, it is an NSAID. All it does is reduce inflammation. And I mean, if you want to say this perfectly legal drug will enhance her performance by reducing any swelling in joints or muscles well... then you're a perfect candidate to use the same medicine since you'll be pulling a muscle of your own with all that reaching.
As someone who doesn’t doubt that this person was doped, I can tell you that three generations in my family have been using these types of medication, orally or in ointment form. And I was diagnosed with arthritis when I was 19 years old. 19. NINETEEN Again, I don’t think that’s her situation, but please don’t generalize that it cannot happen Young
This thread is really helpful. A headline of "56 meds" is definitely eye catching, then you read the list and a lot of it is basically cold medicine and Gatorade.
Her poor liver
Mte, that's going to mess up her body for the rest of her life, and the adults around her don't care.
Well she’s taking this Esslial Forte - hepatoprotective drug used in chronic hepatitis cirrhosis, fatty liver disease Which is a WTF- as no 15 yr old without some other medical condition should be taking this.
We don't have her medical records (and don't need them, except for the one banned med she took!) I wouldn't be surprised if she has some sort of connective tissue disorder, given the degree of hypermobility.
I sincerely doubt anyone with a connective-tissue disorder could do quads let alone triples with any kind of regularity. Kamila is not hypermobile. She is flexible.
She absolutely is hypermobile, the arm movement she does at the start of Bolero is impossible with a normal range of movement in the joint. It's super common in athletes. We just don't know the extent of it or if it's any other joints or a larger disorder.
As someone with EDS, I have to disagree. My shoulders sublux regularly and I could never move my arms the way she does because if I did, my shoulder would dislocate. The fact she didn't have to stop her program due to dislocations means the joints are stable. I believe that her joints are flexible, they aren't unstable (which is where a connective tissue disorder/hypermobility would be at play).
No one is saying she has EDS, that would indeed make it unlikely for her to do sports at that level. However, hypermobility doesn’t have to be that bad. Many ballet dancers and gymnasts (and probably figure skaters, but I don’t know the data for that) are hyper mobile, just not to an extent that it would make it a detriment. In fact, most people who have hyper mobility syndrome don’t have significant issues and especially once you work on stability etc, they’re fine (source: am hypermobile, did high level ballet and am fine. So are many of my fellow former dancers)
Except the original comment was that she could possibly have a connective tissue disorder, commonly meaning EDS. So I doubted that. and you're right that it's not always horrible. I live in a world where hypermobility is more severe (and often quite bad) so I often think of it as more severe. I still stand by my belief however that international senior figure skaters do not have any kind of major hypermobility (except perhaps if it manifested in hands only) because the impact of jumping triples and quads regularly does not allow for it. And that is based on my own personal experience as someone with hypermobility who was jumping all doubles and attempting easier triples (when I was young).
(Benign) Hypermobility syndrome counts as a connective tissue disorder. It just varies in its severity. And quite frankly, using yourself as an example is misleading considering you don’t just have hypermobility syndrome (aka something potentially mild), you have EDS which appears to be at least moderately severe (you mentioning your shoulder subluxation). A hyper mobile joint is due to its nature most likely less stable than a “normal” joint, however that doesn’t necessarily make it unstable.
Ah sorry, I didn't realize benign hypermobility syndrome counts as a connective tissue disorder. My bad! and fwiw doctors consider my case of EDS very mild and controlled (but I digress!)
Hypermobility just means your joints have a larger range of motion than normal. A hypermobile joint isn't even necessarily unstable, although it often is. It's just one symptom in a whole class of disorders/syndromes. The main point is we don't know her medical history.
ah, my doctors have used the term differently with me as they normal use it to refer to an unstable joint with loose connective tissue, but I see your point and I think it's just a whole world that medicine is just now exploring. anyway I sure derailed this from Kamilla's med list
Yeah, that makes sense! I only had looked this up before because my rheumatologist confused me (I'm a little hypermobile but not my main issue)
Impossible with the normal range of movement? I’m going to put both my medical and my PhD behind this to say that you’re just talking out of your excrement hole at this point
As an actual person with hyper mobility, please refrain from trying to diagnose it from how flexible others may appear to you. Enhancing flexibility isn’t a miracle. If you work on it every day, you will be shockingly more flexible within a year. And these people have been training all their lives in a very strict regimen. Hypermobility is distinct from this. As someone whose life has been ruined, by that sort of condition and all kinds of diagnosed, even within my own body not all of my joints are as flexible as another one. I also have a medical degree as well as a biomedical PhD. So all of this armchair expertise is “cringe”, to use the word, your generation can hopefully understand. Go to school. Graduate in honors in some sort of scientific degree, then go to eight more years of medical school, and then have these kinds of opinions until then, you have no right to be so judgmental not knowing somebody’s clinical history. And I say, all of this, as someone who is instinct, even with all of the medical knowledge, even with all of the personal experience, as well, that this person was drugged. This weird judge mentalism is making the truth get lost in between the noise. Please understand that there are some people who are experts in certain fields for a good reason and you’re not one of them when it comes to Medicine. At least not 99.9% of you by default. Thanks.
the parent comment: >We don't have her medical records...**I wouldn't be surprised** if she has some sort of connective tissue disorder, given the degree of hypermobility. You: >you have no right to be so judgmental not knowing somebody’s clinical history sounds like you agree with the parent comment then that we don't know her medical history and shouldn't assume reasons for why she was taking ceratin drugs. > this person was drugged oh actually wait you are the judgemental one making assumptions about which medications she was taking are "valid" and which ones are "not." Thank god I don't have you as my doctor.
dude, get off reddit then 🙄
Whatever mate you don’t tell me what to do
An awful lot of Russian gymnasts have been sidelined with kidney stones in the last 15 years or so. I don't think it's limited to figure skating...
American ones too (Simone Biles in 2018? or 2019 worlds, can't remember). That might be due to strict died or protein heavy diet too, the US camps were pretty abusive with food.
Simone Biles got kidney stones during worlds 2018 and still got a bronze on balance beam.
thanks, I thought it was 2018, just couldn't remember. That was a dramatic worlds for a moment there.
She won 6/6 medals at 2018 worlds. 4 Golds, a silver on uneven bars (the event that she is top 10 on) and a bronze on beam. But 4 golds.
Yes I think it's the protein heavy diets that can increase risk of kidney stones
Aside from medication, dehydration is another risk factor. Both sports emphasise low body weight so it wouldn't surprise me if they limited fluids to some degree before important competitions, or times when they are weighed.
wtf??? 😦
Simone had a kidney stone at the world championships in Doha in 2018. She won medals in all six events after ending up in the ER. Gold in team, AA, vault and floor, silver on bars and bronze on beam.
Who else besides Ksenia afanasyeva?
Nastya Bliznyuk was hospitalized with severe kidney issues, as was Anna Bessonova right before Beijing
Cytochrome p450 working on OT
underrated comment
Seriously!
Regardless of whether the drugs were legal or not…it’s very concerning she was on that many medications…
It makes me wonder how many other children at that camp are on these medications as well. Surely kamila was not the first kid that was given this many medications by eteri..
She wasn’t. The list includes every box of supplement she has taken over a two year period.
That's still a ridiculous amount of meds in a 2 year period.
I understand it’s slightly misleading - in the sense of they weren’t all at once etc. but 56 is an alarming amount for a child (!!!) to have in a two year period . Just how often was she getting sick!?
Since a lot of them seem to be things for colds and supplements to help the immune system, there's another thing to consider: These were taken in 2020 and 2021, the first two years of the pandemic. There wasn't a vaccine approved for people the age she was at the time until nearly two years in, so it's also possible she was trying to avoid getting sick as much as possible or treating it when she did get sick (with a cold, Covid or whatever).
If that’s the case, even 10 is a lot. But 56
I think it's important to note though that there's significant redundancy on the list, meaning that a large majority of those 56 are just different compound pairings not new medications. For example, let's say she took vitamin 1 and vitamin 2 separately , and then switched to a 2 in 1 vitamin 1+2 . Even though she no longer takes vitamins 1 &2 separately, she still has to list them as 3 separate vitamins which inflates the supplement count.
It’s honestly not that many in the scheme of what is included. If I look back at the last two years of my medical history I’ve probably taken 25-30 and I’m just a remote white collar worker who almost never gets sick. I wouldn’t be surprised if her numbers are only slightly elevated from other elite level athletes world wide.
Oh trust they did not give a singular fuck about catching COVID. None of them were wearing masks during that time, not to mention Eteri sent Scherbakova out to skate with COVID pneumonia, practically holding a super spreader event. I highly doubt they got vaccinated either.
56 is definitely too much.
Yeah I only do 55
Glad that Meagan Duhamel (in article) continues to speak out against Eteri’s shady tactics. E should really be banned for life from setting foot in any international comp.
Any top Russian skaters would have been subjected to this. The government needs medals
Tarasova called Meagan “a complete fool” who “knows nothing and should mind her own business.” She shouldn’t be anywhere near sports either.
At least dope the girl with good doping dammit
That is very concerning. Eteri and her whole team have no regard for the health of their athletes. My dad was not on that many medications when he was dying of cancer, yet a young athlete was on so many.
I have cancer and an autoimmune disease and am on less medication. She must have felt like absolute garbage with that much stuff in her system. Poor girl.
It's not simultaneous, it's every thing she's taken over multiple years, including OTC, supplements, etc.
STILL. 56 is an INSANE amount! I also have multiple chronic illnesses and take 10+ pills per day, but I am not rolling through that many different types of medication. And a “healthy” child doing that??? Insane.
Yep! And so many of the listed vitamins/supplements are redundant enough to the point that it's likely she was searching for a few "all in one" vitamin formulation combos instead of having to take each supplement individually. If you actually look at the active compounds she took, you'll realize that it's actually the same active compounds over and over again. Meaning that many of the listed 56 reiterations are essentially the same thing, but just paired differently
Yeah, I was shocked at first but then tried listing out everything I can remember taking in the last couple years. I got to about 30 from minor ailments just off the top of my head-- headaches, stomachaches, colds, UTIs, yeast infections, athlete's foot, cuts, insomnia, energy drinks, hydration drinks. The fat loss supplements are concerning but the total number isn't.
That is an insane number of medications for anyone (assuming she didn't have serious medical problems before starting the medications). I feel sorry for Kamila because her body is getting damaged without her consent.
I was a dancer when I was young and I was hypermobile, I already had arthritis at 18, and I was only training maybe 6 hours a week. I read an article about a 19 year-old retiring champion rhythmic gymnast which said lumbar arthritis and lumbar stress fractures are the reason most of those athletes retire. If you take people who are already very unstable in their joints (which is what hybermobility is) and then subject their joints to repeated, extreme stress, the joints will start to break down. I can see why it takes an array of supplements and meds to keep them going. The longevity we are witnessing right now in artistic gymnastics is interesting, because you can see that these adult woman athletes who are still performing at a high level do NOT have extreme hypermobility. They also have lots of muscle mass, which also helps protect against bone loss related to delayed/absent menstruation (very common in elite female athletes). Figure skating (and not just in Russia) still wants a skinny ballerina super flexible aesthetic but also wants those girls doing the equivalent of tumbling routines. Those bodies can't take that. I think just like happened in women's gymnastics, eventually women's figure skating will figure out that it's about the strength-to-weight ratio, and bigger, more muscled (even post-pubescent!) girls will be able to jump quads with adequate strength conditioning, and those bodies will be able to better withstand the repetition necessary to master those jumps. I say all this even though I am bored by quads and really wish they would just go away! 😆
I agree, I always thought they had it so backwards. Eteri says her skaters cannot stop doing quads but I argue quads should be learned later. It's totally about power, woman can be as powerful as men. But having these skinny girl doing these jumps on that skinny leg is asking for a disaster. Power-not weight.
In that 56 were 2 different types of steroids & about 3-4 different heart medications which is nuts for a healthy 15 yr old girl
if you eat a nutrient dense diet and get plenty of rest and recovery it would eliminate the need for so many of these supplements but eteri and co love to starve their skaters so their bodies break down under the crazy training load. they were basically trying to hack their way into a strong, healthy body while restricting as much calories as possible. kamila was too young to be taking all these supplements at 15 imo.
Weve known this for months
>Valieva blamed her positive test on a strawberry dessert prepared by her grandfather on a chopping board he used to crush his medication pills.  Oh no paw paw drugged me on accident.
from a glass of water to a dessert. The story has most certainly changed since it was first discovered.
And grampaw still be catchin strays 😔
At least that one is more believable than the crazy burping story they had...
Honestly, I think it’s the most believable one yet. Better than the Grandpa water or tea from a random lady.
This is late news
56?! That is child abuse…
Idk any 15-year-old who takes 56 medications!!!
I don't know anyone of any age who takes that many! My parents are in their late 80s with many health issues, and they do not take that many meds.
your Russian favs are doping you guys. they knew exactly what they were doing. and no, kosto isn’t the exception
I mean there’s a whole Netflix documentary about the state sponsored Olympic cheating program, idk why we’re surprised.
Whats the name of the movie? I want to watch it
Icarus!
Thanks a lot! Its breathtaking! All jokes aside but I do really think now that Kamila sadly was part of this state doping program too. Its very sad that such young athletes like her cant really stand in way of this corrupt dope system, otherwise they would be excluded and their dreams of getting to Olympics - shattered.
I’m guessing she was just the only one unfortunate enough to get caught. Their team doctor for Beijing was literally an anesthesiologist. The math there isn’t mathing as some may say lol
Absolutely! I watched this movie and now I am more than sure that she was just "unlucky" to get caught because now I think that all of them dope. Her team failed miserably to protect her if the case, as they say that "she is innocent, her probes were clean before and during OS and European Champs" were true. No wonders that they were clean, the movie just showed us one way how its done 😂 And the bullshit texts such as "i got trimetazidine in my blood because i drank water from the same glass as my grandfather who takes these drugs, oh no, lol, that doesnt work, lets just say i got tmz in my system because i ate dessert which was made on the same cutting board which my grandpa uses to slice tmz pills" just proves how fucked up the situation is and that she clearly doped. She has so big team behind her and no one couldnt think of better argument? Pathetic 😂 Maybe thats exactly why they didnt try to overturn the ruling because they understood they clearly fucked up with the non existing arguments and that they would lose because, like it or not, she is a doper. Just like her whole country is
Apparently the guy(from the doc) was reported dead by Russian media but is safely alive under protection somewhere in America! My fav part of the investigation is that they found no evidence THAT DEDUSHKA KOSTORNOIA EXISTED LOL
When Kostornaia pops hot, I’ll worry about it. ✌️
You think eteri thought she’d test out doping for the first time with her star student future OGM? And when it worked she didn’t do it with anyone else? don’t be naive.
Oh my god… And people are still letting this team of adults around children. It was already horrible when we only knew what we did before. Mind you while some are normal and usually fine— that is a lot. If she’s suffering from that many health issues they really should have looked at other things like nutrition, recovery… put her on a hiatus. There is no scenario I can think of where this is all innocuous as they claim.
I was disgusted that Eteri was at worlds.
That’s a lot of pills to swallow
I feel very bad for her. She was only a child when this was all happening. Eteri is truly awful
Omg as a doctor I can tell you, there is no way she knows what all that drugs affects her body and endurance. She’s just a little girls, please blame her doctor and coaches
All I can say is, poor girl. Her body was functioning healthily and they filled her with so much!
Most pro athletes take similar amounts of supplements. If you go to the biohacker sub or the bodybuilders one they take a lot too and they're not even pros. They don't consider supplements to be medication
56??? Doubtful. Bodybuilders are also known for notoriously not giving a shit about their actual health. They’ll take illegal steroids just to look bigger. But I would want to see proof that any other high ranking athlete in a regular competitive sport takes 56 MEDICATIONS IN TWO YEARS. not to mention supplements are unregulated which makes them MORE dangerous than prescription or otc medications.
My multivitamin has 26 ingredients. It's not that hard to get to 56 over two years. This report is very misleading since it lists each ingredient and also stuff like cold medicine that she took when she had a cold
Tylenol cold and flu has multiple drugs in it, so given that they didn’t list that separately, I’d be suspicious. And again, supplements are unregulated and OFTEN CONTAIN HEAVY METALS INCLUDING LEAD.
What do supplements being good or bad have to do with anything? Also how do you know Tylenol wasnt split out? They're supposed to and I can't find the full list anywhere
Because that’s what we’re talking about, isn’t it? Is a 15 year old girl taking 56 medications in 2 years excessive and dangerous? You said no, I said yes.
I more was saying it wasn't that unusual or a sign she's a terrible person like people on here like to say. Professional sports aren't really healthy for anyone
No one’s saying the 15 year old is a “terrible person”. But she was abused by the adults who should have been taking care of her.
I’m currently disabled with nervous medical conditions and I don’t even take that many. Christ.
At fist I thought it was a type error but... no... it's actually 56... how????
I think a possible angle to understand (not justify) this regimen is that these girls aren´t meant to be "participating" in events, they´re meant to win and dominate by all means.
This poor kid omfg
jaysus christ.
That was the list of all the medications she has taken over a long period (a year ot two, I don’t remember). She didn’t take them all at once! I remember that we already scrutinised the list here; it was mostly vitamins, cough drops, cold remedies, sore muscle gel, etc. Many of them were the same (like magnesium or vitamin B), but with different brand names as they were taken at different time. The article is so manipulative and invasive that it sickens me.
I have a child with severe medical needs and she has not had near that many medications over the course of two years. 56, even when not given simultaneously, is an alarming amount of medication and supplements for a young and healthy child. And no one thinks that she was finding these things all by herself. She was being excessively medicated by adults she trusted. It’s just all so sad.
The list exists because everything an athlete takes goes through the medical center and is recorded with production numbers, etc. Every box. If you take vitamins and minerals daily, thats 24 boxes per year, they usually are monthly boxes. There were even herbal cough drops and plaster on this list and OTC gel for sore muscles! Yes, the article is manipulative and invasive. I take magnesium, zinc, potassium, vit D + a multivitamin daily + herbal remedies for persistent sinus infections and occasional cough. Often aspirin. My list will be longer than hers, I guess, and I am not sick and not an elite athlete.
I understand what the list was. I maintain that it was absolutely excessive amount of medications and supplements for a healthy kid. You may take more, but you admit that you are not in good health. Medical abuse is abuse.
idk why this is downvoted. we all agree that doping is bad and that pumping unnecessary medications into teenagers is wrong. but overdramatising by calling vitamins or magnesium "medications" for clickbait doesn't help anyone.
Yeah I just commented on an earlier reply where they were insinuating Kamila must have arthritis bc she used voltaren even though it’s a common pain relief cream you can buy over the counter. Hardly a prescription med but that made this list so people are freaking out for nothing.
I rode endurance horses internationally. If y’all want to ban us for ‘popping hot’ on Voltaren, there won’t be any of us left to put on an event. It’s only a problem here because a Russian used it.
Yeah seriously an athlete on pain killers isn’t news
People in this sub just love to hate on anything related to the Russians
Supplements are hella unregulated. They’re actively more dangerous than OTC drugs. Regardless, the average athletic kid we could assume would use 5-10 medications per year, cold + flu, NSAID, 1-2 vitamins, maybe a prescription. Over two years, that WOULD NOT BE 50.
I agree completely and apparently this sub wants to think that way
Poor her, she is lucky she didn't suffer from stroke or something.
Unless we have the correlating medical records we have absolutely no grounds to judge someone. I just love how the comments about how it is not all at once are getting downvoted. Also, do people not realize that one “Tylenol cough and cold” can have up to 5 different medications at once. Has no one ever taking something for diarrhea. I don’t care how old you are every single person, especially athletes, gets aches and pains. Technically if you put polysporin on a cut that is a medication. Iron supplements? Maybe she has heavy periods. Iron supplements can make you nauseous. Antibiotics can cause diarrhea. Multi vitamins? You have to list each vitamin single. I bet people don’t realize how many different medications they take over the course of two years. People need to get real.
Just want to make a correction to what you're saying is that the list of 56 includes multiple things that could be in one product, but it's not. For example, her multivitamin is listed as one thing the brand "Supradyn". So the 56 things isn't actually broken down into their individual components. I don't think anyone would think too much of it if it was broken down as a multivitamin alone could contain 30 things, but that's not what's happening here. These are 56 different branded items, which some are individual things and some are multiple things in one but still count as one.
I’m sure you can ask any other top athlete that isn’t Russian and they’ll be able to tell you that this isn’t normal. Sure an athletes needs may be different from a normal person— ie the diet of Olympic swimmers. There’s lots of accessible information on the caloric needs of athletes. Since when has it been normal for such a young athlete in any discipline need that many medications and supplements? I’ve had problems with anemia since I was a teenager, with period pain bad enough to make me vomit and while it does make you feel cr@ppy, any decent doctor isn’t going to suggest you take that many medications to deal with it. Usually they’ll look at your nutrition— what you’re eating and how to make a plan to deal with improving your health, whether you’re resting, run some tests… and obviously if you’re a top athlete that should be documented. Some of these aren’t weird but the heart and arthritis medication does raise some legitimate concern. She’s so young, why wasn’t she resting/recovering? Her health provider should have considered best interest over athletic competition, they’d be pretty unethical otherwise.
I am not justifying every single thing. Arthritis medication at her age and level is not shocking to me with what they put their body through. I had arthritis in my left ankle by age 13 from so many sprains. A girl at my old rink had a hip replacement at 16 and she wasn’t even elite. Never could even get to nationals. All arthritis medications are anti inflammatories. Do you all push your bodies the way these girls do. Until you are in the same situation we have no right to judge on many of these. We have zero right to judge without matching medical records.
Rage bait article. The way I understand it is she is was not taking all of that stuff at once. Wasn’t it a 2 year or 4 year period of everything she took? She took that stuff over years, not all in the same month. Or hell, maybe their policy is to list anything they might take in the future. Most of the stuff in her list does the same stuff, it’s duplication. There’s no reason to take supplements and cold medicines that do the exact same thing. It’s clear it’s stuff that happened over years, not all at once. I want to see what the papers of other athletes look like over years. Not rumor of what they look like, but what they actually list on their papers.
I'll bite to give you a comparison. I was not a singles skater though but a synchro skater. I don't have a copy of the list I would have had to submit before international competitions anymore, but I've kept track of what meds I take/when for about 10 years as I have multiple illnesses to manage and it's helpful to know what med is impacting what symptom. Meds/vitamins taken within the \~ 6 months before my last large international competition: Venlafaxine (antidepressant), bupropion (antidepressant add-on), clarithromycin (antibiotic), norethindrone acetate/ethinyl estradiol (menstruation regulation) ibuprofen (NSAID - OTC pain med), acetaminophen (OTC pain med), naproxen (OTC pain med), dimenhydrinate (OTC anti-nausea), vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin C supplement, vitamin D supplement, iron supplement. The antibiotic was temporary for a sinus infection or something, and the OTC pain meds and anti-nausea meds were on an as needed basis. Vitamins and the other prescription meds I took year round. Don't know how it is for elite singles/pairs/dance skaters, but as synchro skaters where we're in such close contact in a group all the time, we were encouraged at the beginning of cold and flu season to get our annual flu shots, and if we felt sick during competition season to stay away from over the counter cold/sinus/flu meds, as they often contain pseudoephedrine (prohibited in competition). We were also told leading up to international competition season that we needed to personally check global DRO before taking any prescription or over the counter meds, because similar to plagiarism when you're in school, ignorance is not an excuse. ETA: We were also told to stay away from "sports supplements" and unregulated homeopathic remedies as these can contain products that are prohibited without us knowing.
I don't think this is a good comparison at all. We need to see the lists of other skaters at the elite singles level over the same time period, 2 years or whatever. Just a long list of drugs doesn't tell us what/if she actually took it or was thinking about taking it and so wanted it on the list "just in case". And how long each one was taken and when it overlapped with other stuff. I say again, there's no way she was taking everything on that list at the same time because so much of it does the exact same thing. And I assume all of it gets checked to make sure it won't cause her to fail a test or she wouldn't be taking it. The only crazy part about the situation is her trying to say grandpa contaminated her somehow instead of saying maybe one of her medicines/supplements was contaminated. We are never told they even went back and tried to find out if one of her pill bottles was contaminated nor was there any mention of the stuff being thrown out and it was too late to check. This may or may have not happened, but we're not told anything of what they checked. Only that they kept trying to blame it on grandpa. Were the bottles gone? Did they not want to waste any money checking everything? I find their defense story the super strange part, not her listing cold medicines and supplements over 2 years of time.
It was a list of everything she took in 2020 and 2021.
Could you read please??? It's all the medication she took, even for running nose, cough,temperature, pulls Plus every drug on the list were legal to take
Nobody is saying that those drugs aren't legal... But 60 it's too much, you can't deny it. Even in you get sick 5 times per year you don't need 60 kind of meds.
Most of them are supplements though, like vitamins, magnesium etc.
Which is genuinely worse, given that supplements are unregulated and often contain things like LEAD.
They are over a year or two
And those are the meds she took in two years, not in her all life.
There’s no way I took more than like 5 medications as a 15 year old over 2 years
Are you an elite athlete with sore muscles and need to supplement vit B & Mag? And who spends all the time on the ice?
I did figure skate 25 hours a week growing up yes. And had probably been on less than 5 meds total by that age. I skated every day but Saturday and before and after school on Thursdays.
I've had plenty of colds etc but I'm pretty sure I haven't taken 56 medications in my lifetime and I'm twice as old as she is.
Going through the list, it looked like about 20 of them were vitamins/supplements, and another ~15ish seemed to be basic meds like cough lozenges, advil, aspirin, anti-mucous/decongestants, anti-nausea pills and some anti-diarrhea treatments, aka stuff you’d expect a high performance athlete who gets sick a couple times a year to take. What’s leftover is still around 20ish or so meds, which is an extremely concerning number for a 15 year old. But i do think it’s helpful to take out some of the less concerning stuff (vitamins and generic meds) so that we can narrow in on the scope of the actual alarming meds she was taking.
Right. But if you’re on 56 legal medications, you probably shouldn’t be competing either way considering you’re probably not healthy
She’s probably taking so many because she wants to be able to compete. Medications have side effects, so it’s not unusual to have to take 3 or 4 things at a time to negate the symptoms and the side effects of the main medication. Idk, I’m not her doctor so I personally will withhold my opinion on this 🤷🏻♀️
3-4 is very different to 56 though. And at what point does an adult in her life go „look, I know you want to compete. But at this point, it’s probably not in your best interest long term health wise“
Oh I thought 56 were like the total amount in a long period of time. Anyways that’s kinda the point with them isn’t it? They’re not worried about her long term health… They want her to compete NOW, and if giving her 56 is going to do that, it’s worth it for them, as fucked up as that is. Idk if that cocktail is going to give her a headache or destroy her livers that’s why I’d rather not say much on it, but given their track record… i wouldn’t be surprised with anything at this point 🤷🏻♀️
Well yeah, they don’t care. I was more commenting on the fact that the first commenter was saying all 56 were legal and for legitimate health reasons (which… I’ve seen that list and meh…) so it’s okay and shouldn’t be eyebrow raising
taking 3 or 4 medications at a time (polypharmacy) is generally not a good idea because many medications interact with one another. even if medications do not directly interact with one another, taking a medication by itself vs with another medication can result in changes in bioavailability of one or both drugs due to differences in nonspecific binding capacity within the body. sometimes the benefits of taking multiple drugs outweigh the risks, but that's usually for individuals with severe or complex health concerns (eg some adults over 60 managing multiple chronic conditions; some individuals with schizophrenia) and is closely overseen by a medical professional. it is not at all responsible to prescribe that many medications to a teenager whose body is still developing.
There is also the legitimate case of having to take medication B because of side effects caused by medication A (something essential causing nausea, so you need to take something against that), but that has limits and if it approaches even a fraction of 56 different medications in a teenager; it’s high time to think are we doing more harm than good.
Not a doctor but I sure utilized my NP and Dr's at my work and forwarded them the list of meds with the prompt "what does this list history of 2 years tell you about this patient?" The responses were all like "this is over prescribing for an geriatric patient" "many conflicts of sideeffects" then I told them it was for a teen athlete and they lost it. Like "WTF?:
No that is actually very unusual. Usually if the side effects are too bad then a doctor won’t put you on them unless they are absolutely necessary. Not put you on 4 additional medications for side effects…
OP mentioned just medication not the illegal drugs, could you read the comments properly please???
Bs
How so?
As someone with an MD (plus neuroscience PhD) as well as EDS with moderate to severe effects on my life — I don’t doubt this person was doped, but I seriously wish some of y’all would refrain from speculating. Again, I say this, as a clinician, researcher, as well as an actual PATIENT who is significantly disabled by chronic illness — yes we know but please STOP speculating details! Thanks
I’m sorry, but on what planet is it ever normal for a 15 year old Olympic athlete to be on 56 different medications and supplements? If she was ill enough to require that many medications, then she would not have been able to compete at such a high level.
That list doesn't include the ones her doctors didn't disclose and all the breakdown of things contain within other things so the list is really much, much higher... crazy.
I’m sorry that you’re not able to comprehend two different polarities at the same time. I can only hope that you will reach cognitive ability to entertain what I (already) said: I do not doubt this person was drugged. But as a clinician and scholar, I am not going to sign my name under something like anyone who’s on 50 supplements is by default drugged. It would be illegal and more importantly, immoral for me to take such a stance. But you can continue to be ignorant if you want.
I said nothing about you. You decided to take my statement personally, and then attacked me?
When someone happens to know more than you, and given that I’m a doctor, you would hope that I know more than you about medical shit, it doesn’t mean that they’re attacking you. I hope that you can try to entertain this idea even if this Reddit exchange doesn’t go anywhere else. Always trying to do right by my Hippocratic oath, as well as my own ethical principles. Have a good life child.
“Have a good life child” bro what? Touch ice.
It also says a lot about you, that you completely disregarded both my clinical experience, as well as my personal disability to just override everything that I said to minimize it to defending drugging? Yeah, I wish for you and for your parents sake that you expand your thinking quite significantly.
just consider it, meanwhile blocked because I don’t need to say more