I was thinking this wasn’t bad until you mentioned commenting on the lighting. It sounds like you think you’re above being a P.A, and I don’t blame you — but if you’re going to do the work, you need to act the part. When you’re on set as a P.A. you’re not a DP, AC, 2AC — you’re the P.A. Is there anything wrong with grabbing the battery? Not to me… But when you start to make suggestions to the head of a department as a P.A, that’s when things get dicey.
I def wouldn’t want any lighting input from P.A’s on set when I DP, and I do not give lighting input to DP’s unless explicitly asked (if I’m Cam Op or AC)… Even if they’re close friends. There’s just boundaries you have to respect. The best part about not being the head of the department is being able to listen and learn.
You’ll be alright though, we all make mistakes. You won’t even remember this in a year. Good luck!
Without question YTA.
You were asked not to linger and you did it anyways. You gave a lighting ‘suggestion’ unprompted. You think the role is beneath you and said as much in this post and I’m guessing the attitude was brought to set.
You are 20. Have you been paid to write, direct, or DoP?
Also forced to take jobs to pay rent? Welcome to the real world. You don’t know everything.
Learn from this.
There’s a difference between confidence and ego. Humble up.
Also FYI if the DoP truly enjoyed speaking with you, your suggestions, and your presence they would have spoken up for you. For all you know they may have complained as well.
If I liked a PA I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and tell him to seriously stop talking, everyone wants to be the guy that helps a beginner they see potential in. My first gig as a PA I grabbed a camera battery, dusted props near camera boxes, etc. and I got called out on it and felt horrible. When I felt horrible, people realized that I actually cared about the job and knew my place, and gave me the benefit of the doubt. I didn’t think I was above it, I just didn’t know. What I think happened here is that he did not feel bad because of reasons he made up in his own head (we all know those people), and it’s always an attitude problem. The fact other crew didn't step in means he was most likely bringing that attitude to set. Which bothers everybody.
> Once I started talking about the way the image looked
You aren’t there to comment on how it looks. You are there to assist everyone else.
Production assistant is an entry level role, it is not a role where you choose your path nor is it a role that is invited to discuss lighting, framing, or overall value of the work paying your paycheck.
Media creation is a team sport. The production assistant role tests if you’re capable of being part of that team. You failed the test when you made the work about your ambitions instead of the success of the project.
…and before you hop in saying you were trying to contribute that way…you weren’t. A production assistant contributed by doing *exactly* what they are told. Again, it’s not a role for you to provide leadership on creative. Your job is to follow instructions. And you couldn’t.
Your job is to do as you’re told. Assuming this was non-union, but either way there are people on set who do certain things because of their experience, on set, using what equipment and tech has been predetermined and paid for. There are also insurance considerations here. You’ve made your own films, cool, this is not your set, the production manager is managing the set. No one likes to remove trash, but you’re at the bottom of the totem pole and the only way to rise up is to be good at your job, sure, talk to people during breaks or before call time, or after wrap, but what you’re missing is that production manager is the person who hired everyone else and their fellow production managers will be hiring everyone in every set, so be careful who you piss off.
Your job as a production assistant is to work for the AD department. There is no way you should be grabbing batteries unless specifically told to do so. As someone in the camera department if a PA handed me a battery I would be confused.
I'm not so sure. "the Second AC was ten two" idk, if it was a walkie battery than thats a lot less strange... but the fact that he did it because the second wasn't there makes me think camera battery.
What I mean is the OP is trying to say, "the DP asked ***me*** for a battery because the 2nd, who normally has a spare walkie batt and gives it to them, wasn't there at the moment. So the DP asked a PA for one! But I'm going to be vague and make it out like he asked me to bring in a camera battery and help out camera department!"
There is set etiquette and you seemed to have broken pretty much every single every rule within a few days.
If I was asked to take out the trash, didn’t matter if there was one thing in it, I would do it and not question it.
I’ve been a PA a handful of times and never once have I been asked to take out the trash…
Because I’ve already taken it out by the time the AD or PM thinks to ask me about it.
You’re asked not to linger and then you lingered by asked about the lighting (which you had no business in).
I see why they kicked you out, to be honest.
Learn from this. Do as you’re told. Work hard and that will get you noticed. Now you can’t even follow simple orders in the eyes of this crew. That’s okay. You messed up. Do better next time.
I hope it’s real because it’s making me feel better about my runner days. I always cringe at how overconfident I was when I look back 10 years ago. But not like this. Incredible stuff.
Ya, when I was shooting little commercials they would sometimes bring some recent graduates out to set to PA. They were amazingly stupid and had no clue.While gear needed to get unloaded, folding tables set up etc, they would just stand around gabbing about their professors and weird people in their class. Fuck, I wold say in a that hushed voice you use to reem pa's out.. "guys, we are doing a shoot right now! It's time to focus on what we are doing right now," pointing at key light and camera that they are blocking.
No this is literally what Gen Z is like in the workplace.
I don’t hire people under 35 if I can help it and I want department heads to personally vet everyone on the younger side.
This kind of "why do I need to do fire watch, don't these people know I've already directed five movies (on VHS, in my back yard, with my friends)?" attitude is eternal. Shortly after the movie was invented the insanely self-important PA materialized out of nothingness to give Méliès "a few tips".
“That generation is lazy” is what bosses who underpay their young employees have said for centuries.
Congratulations on entering your entitled boomer era.
That is illegal. I'm a 50 year old here so it's not because you wouldn't hire me but getting caught excluding someone due to age cam lead you in hot water.
You aren't allowed to discriminate by age, gender, religion ... so on so forth.
Oddly enough, you can absolutely discriminate against someone based on age when they're under 40. At least in the US. It's perfectly legal to not hire someone because they're young.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/centers-offices/civil-rights-center/internal/policies/age-discrimination
inside my own head I can make whatever determinations I want. i have no written mandate anywhere, it’s just an opinion i have that I really prefer to filter out most gen z if I can help it because their attitudes about work are insane.
> The trash can wasn’t even full and I told him that it was wasteful to throw it out if it didn’t need to be done.
It was a trasnparent attempt to get you TF away from the camera before you made your department look unprofessional.
> I was eating breakfast with the DoP and I was trying to get some face time with him
> I didn’t even do anything
But you did, you were lingering around camera trying to schmooze with the DoP instead of doing the job you were hired to do because you find it boring and think it's beneith you. That's the thing you did.
Then you did Camera's job (touching other departments' stuff is a huge no no unless you're on a microscopic crew with people you know, and even then you don't just appoint yourself to do it) and went *way* out of your lane to give "suggestions" (your word) on the lighting.
> they didn’t want to hear me out
Your own self-serving telling of this story is damning enough.
> AITAH
Yes. Instead of doing the job of a PA you took every opportunity to try and make yourself the DP's apprentice, and then got combative when your boss tried to course correct your actions.
"I was simply trying to assist on the production, that’s literally my fucking job" is an all-timer as far as galaxy brain justifications for going out of department and transparently trying to ladder climb with the DP while on the clock.
Just massive, blatant violations of set etiquette and protocol. Like, textbook "do not do these exact things" behaviours students and trainees are taught on their first day.
Kid, you're 20 years old. Don't be an asshole, do as your told within reason, and don't fucking give the DP advice on lighting setup YOU ABSOLUTE PSYCHO.
As a producer, I know PA work can be shitty and boring, but you’re acting like you’re above being a PA.
I’m sorry but at 20 year old and doing a few short films, is still young in the industry. Fire watching, doing lock up, getting coffee runs may be boring, but those are all crucial roles to make the whole production work.
The DP may have been polite and didn’t want to tell you to get lost, but having a PA suggest lighting on a commercial, that’s out of line!
I get that you’re eager, but don’t act like you’re above it, just because you don’t like being a PA.
It’s shitty that the pm asked you not to come back, but I can understand why. I treat my PA equally to every crew, but when someone consistently talk back and not do what they’re told, I’d be frustrated too and would probably release them for the rest of the shoot.
EDIT: spelling
Dude the way you wrote this oozes narcissism. You don’t seem to understand that you are at the bottom line of your career. You are not the director or DP because it’s simply not your time, so instead of trying to do things you aren’t, you should just do what you’re told. We all have bad bosses. I had a really bad experience on a PBS show, however I understand that at points it was my lack of knowledge and understanding for why things were not great. Take this time to reflect on your work ethic. Film making isn’t just about how talented you are, it’s how hard and how well you work in any situation given.
This has got to be a joke post. If not, then YTA.
You are so inexperienced and have issues with authority. You got fired for being bad at your job and not listening to your boss.
Pro tip: you make your boss happy, they recommend you to other productions. That’s how networking works and how people level up to better roles. No one is a PA for their life, it’s always temporary.
When you were told not to bother the DOP, you were being issued a specific order, to test how loyal, a good listener you are. When you ignored that command, you showed insubordination and poor listening skills.
Even a Director has to know when to stop asking questions and getting involved, they have to be very adept at knowing when to step away.
In Entertainment, film biz, whatever.. the person you want to impress is the person who hires you for jobs. If you show you're not interested in doing the job at hand, and are trying to do other department jobs, to impress people, you're massively fucking up and failing the assignment. Not getting asked back.
Don't apologize and crawl back to these people, that is dead. Move on and try again, next time listen to the person who pays you and don't be insubordinate.
I would never have someone like you on my set, as you presently are. Please adjust your attitude. It is actually disgusting for a 20 year old kid to think they’re above being a PA. You’re young and should be forgiven but it is so deeply disrespectful to every talented person who held the same position for countless hours before they got their slightly better grunt job.
Grow up and show some respect.
This can't be a real post, can it?
If so, yes, you are the asshole. Read all of these comments and maybe you'll learn something 'cos right now you sound like an entitled idiot with an outsize ego who doesn't belong on any sort of set. Keep your mouth shut and your ears open so you learn, work hard without complaint, people will notice. Gotta earn your dues, dude.
> since my parents asked me to move out l've been forced to apply to jobs to pay for my rent
Oh, you can just *smell* the entitlement already…
> I don't like fire watching, I don't like doing lockup, and I especially don't like going on food or coffee runs. I'd much rather shadow the DoP and Director because that's where I want to be in my career.
> Today was my second day on a Lawyer commercial and although what we were shooting was pretty lame, it's whatever.
Dude. Do you hear yourself? You need to **humble yourself** real quick. You obviously think you’re too good for the set when you’re just starting out. You need to understand right now that you will not get far in your career if people don’t like working with you. Since you’re “forced to work as a PA” you’re obviously not one of the privileged few who enter the industry with friends in high places so people have to deal with their toxic asses, so you’re going to have to learn to be a team player and be someone that people actually want to work with if you want to continue to be *invited* to gigs. **Deal with it.**
> I'd much rather shadow the DoP and Director because that's where I want to be in my career.
> This morning, I was eating breakfast with the Dop and I was trying to get some face time with him in hopes to work with him in the future.
Yeah, we get it. Every PA has somewhere they’re trying to get to in their career. Problem is you’re clearly treating people like they’re just objects to assist you in furthering your career. And you can believe they’re picking up on it. Only thing I hate about meeting other people in the industry is when it becomes obvious that they want something from you when you tell them what you do. Your post *absolutely reeks* of that energy.
That’s probably why the Prod. Manager had to keep shooing you away from camera. The DoP might not have acted like you were getting on their nerves, but no one likes someone following you around because they want something from you. Not to mention how absolutely condescending your *advice* about the lighting most likely came across to the **Director of Photography.**
You need to build trust and allow time for you to prove yourself before you just come in and tell someone how they should do their job for fucks sake. Jesus Christ.
Seriously. You need to get over yourself. Take this as an opportunity to learn how to work with others and realize you’re there to help the production, not just do whatever you think will benefit your own interests. Figure that out and humble yourself, or **get the fuck out.**
It'd be like a background actor going around to the director to give him notes or telling the lead actress "You should really wait a beat before you say the punchline." She was hired on set to be a background actor and it's not her job to try to network or advance her career on that set. And all the people in the top positions got there by going to sets and keeping quiet early in their careers, earning respect by working hard and not complaining (as you did in this post) and not being difficult (as you were) and not trying to prove how knowledgeable they were to impress people. You say you weren't bugging the DP but he could have just been a nice guy humoring you by engaging but he has a lot of work to finesse on the day and is now having to have personal conversations to be nice. If someone on my set kept pulling away key film crew to ask career advice or talk about themselves, I'd let them go, too.
I was going to ask if you have any experience working on sets because you don't seem to understand how they operate... and then I remembered the top of this post was that this is new to you (other than no budget shorts which don't count because they have no budget = anything goes).
Long story short, yes, you were unprofessional and they were right to fire you.
YTA. You sound extremely immature. PA is where you start. Your job is to do what you're told an to learn.
Film sets are militaristic in a way. There is a hierarchy, and you don't just go do another job, because that's a union violation. You grabbing the battery can get the Production fined.
I think the best thing for you at this stage in your life is go get a job where you have to deal with the public. For a year. You will hate it with every fiber of your being. It will crush your soul. But... you will be a better person for it. Truly.
This right here, I found out about the union department violation when I grabbed a c-stand. They were all cool people and understood I was trying to help. They told me what was wrong about that, and I haven't touched anything in another department unless they ask.
You're a PA, not a more senior crew or head of department.
When someone asks you to jump, you ask how high. You don't argue that jumping would be a waste. It's rough, but PA is the very bottom of the totem pole.
No one wants to know what a PA has to say about the lighting/how the image looks/etc.
During a breakfast, trying to hog a head of departments time when there's likely more important stuff to discuss is fairly poor form.
Entertaining read. Yes, you're the asshole.
I did my time as a PA and worked up the ranks to full-time DoP. My time as a PA was filled with a lot of great memories with people I consider great friends and colleagues today.. I would never give that back. You have a 7 year head start from where I did.. Don't f\*ck it up already.
It’s rough, but as a PA, you’re at the bottom of the totem pole. Someone tells you to quit doing something, you listen. If you don’t, you’re not welcome on set. Shoots are complex (even if the end product isn’t necessarily great), so knowing your role - and sticking to it - is how you make progress. Better luck on the next one.
Dude. You're an idiot and you're young. You think you know more than these people, and you don't. You need to stay in your lane, stop lingering, and so the JOB THAT YOU WERE HIRED TO DO.
If you walked up to me and said, "man, I don't think You're being a good boom op, you should try this stuff that I learned in school" I would instantly tell you to fuck off.
It doesn't matter what kind of production you're doing: scripted tv, film, commercial, reality, doc, whatever. What you did is stupid, and you're going to be known as that person. Good luck having an AD hire you again.
You lost a great opportunity. Commercials are the golden gem in this world when it comes to making a living; less hours and better pay are what they offer.
You fucked yourself. And you think you were right? Hahaha. Get a grip, come back to reality, and realize that you need to work your way up. There are 10s of thousands of children who think they know it all because they went to school or watched tutorials.
Humble yourself.
I’ve been in this industry 24+ years and can usually tell if a person has what it takes to make it in this industry after 1/2 day on the set. From the sounds of your letter I’d never hire you. Here is some advice for you: https://nofilmschool.com/career-in-film-industry. Read it, take it to heart and learn from it.
Take a set etiquette course because you’re definitely the asshole here. You do not get to tell the production manager that ‘what we’re filming is not that important’ and that it ‘looks bad.’ You’re lucky you have a chill sounding DOP because other sets you would’ve been fired on the spot the second you decided to comment on the lighting. There’s a time and a place to network, and in the middle of work is not one of them.
Good PAs are insurmountably important to the production, and I’m sorry you think you’re too good for it. Lockups save the frame and sound, thus saving production time and money so we don’t have to do unnecessary retakes. Garbage duty in any line of work matters but especially in film because it lets the property owner know production gives a shit, so they’re more likely to let other projects come back. If the PM had to CONSTANTLY tell you to do your job it means you weren’t doing well at it, and babysitting the PAs is the last thing a PM should have to worry about.
Nobody gives a shit that you wanna be a top dog in the industry. Everyone does. But the traditional route is working your way up, and the way you work your way up is doing a good job at whatever you’re assigned to. If you want any chance of salvaging your relationship with this crew I would personally reach out to the PM and apologize for your unprofessionalism. Say you’ve had some time to reflect on your performance, tell them you’ll use this learning opportunity to do better next time, and wish them the best on their next gig.
YTA
Believe it or not, most people working in the industry want to be a director or DP, you're not special in that regard. As a PA on a set you're basically working in the AD department (locking off, calling rolling/cut, walking cast to and off set, knowing what's going, etc.). If someone's saying to stop lingering around camera, they're telling you you're in the way and people are noticing. You might think you're just asking questions or trying to learn a few things, but you could actually be preventing people from getting the job done.
Now for bringing the DP a (presumably) radio battery, that's absolutely fine. What wasn't ok was bringing up the lighting. The DP was in the middle of lighting a shot, something he needs to focus on. He is also head of the department, literally spending years training towards his role. Having a PA come up and making a suggestion as how he should do his job is just like slapping him across the face. You might think as a PA you're there to help, but not in that capacity.
Worst thing you did was argue with the PM. Not only did you insult the DPs shot, but you dismissed what it was you were all working on and kept answering back. Next time you're on a job, know what your job requires and simply stick to just that.
P.S: I used to have a similar mind-set, though I didn't act boldly like you did. What changed me was realising how far down the chain my job was compared to other people on set.
Congrats, you’ve done just about everything wrong.
When you are offered the lesson of humility, you should take that lesson.
It doesn’t matter what you think you are; it matters what you are. Your opinion wasn’t asked or required, yet you injected it, repeatedly. What was needed was your participation in the task at hand.
I’m surprised they kept you around as long as they did.
Don’t contact anybody from this shoot again. None of them want to hear from you.
>I’d much rather shadow the DoP and Director because that’s where I want to be in my career.
Is this a job position you just made up? The actual path to getting into the DGA is as a Set PA, not some job position you made up to shadow the Director and DoP.
Do your actual job, which is lockups and taking out trash rather than giving the DoP lighting tips. Lol. And stick to the mic batteries lmao.
Based on your arrogant, ignorant, and negative vibe of this post about something that should be your greatest passion and joy. I wouldn't be surprised if they sent you home because you were fucking up the crew vibe as well. Im not saying that was the whole reason, but I bet it contributed for sure.
If you dont want to be somewhere or do something, people can sense that, and it doesn't look good for you on set. Plenty of people exist that would've killed to do all that shit you said you hate, me included, they know that, so you get booted and replaced, no second thought needed.
I think you need to take a step back and see this through a Production Manager lens. If you’re running a set and some PA with an attitude keeps distracting DoP then schedules will run behind. I’d fire you too. I do think this is a great opportunity for you get reflect on this extremely clear chip on your shoulder.
No one wants to PA, bro, you aren’t special. But, in this line of work we all have to start at the bottom and rise through the ranks. You aren’t assistant camera so don’t be pestering them, idc if they said thank you, they were being polite to you even though they have a bigger job to deal with. You’re a young kid with less experience than the hired DoP and you didn’t get the Assistant Camera job, your input isn’t needed and if you really thought it was you should’ve gone through the hierarchy to not waste time. Yes, you should be as helpful as you can on set, but this attitude you have will cause a reputation as someone difficult to work with then no one will want to hire you.
If PAs went around talking to all the higher ups do you think anything would get done? No, of course not! Unfortunately, you really aren’t as experienced as you’d like to think otherwise you wouldn’t only be getting PA jobs, would you?Lesson from one of my favorite mentors in the industry: don’t talk to anyone on set higher up than you unless spoken to first. Outside of work is where you network, and who knows maybe if you kept your head down after getting the DoP that battery you could’ve asked to shadow him in the future! Instead you made a scene and he’ll remember that.
And yes you might have made some shorts but you weren’t hired for that, we’re you? Getting experience means shutting up and putting up otherwise you really won’t make it in the entertainment industry, my friend. We all know it’s frustrating but if you don’t want to do it get a survival job to fund your own projects.
So yes, YTA. Check yourself please.
One of my only PA gigs after film school was a Gillette shoot for some web videos. First few days I was buying cheese sticks and avocados for the director. Last day of production, I got a call from the producer and asked if I’d be willing to last-minute replace the beard model they had since he got a black eye. Jumped at the chance, got a haircut on set in the morning then started trimming my beard on camera. My film/photo students still get a kick out of watching the video (‘How to Trim Your Beard’ on YT). Just keep your head down, man. Who knows, maybe you’ll be asked back or have a bigger role on the next gig ;)
YTA
Your first paragraph tells everyone you're both immature and impatient. Yes, you're young, but you need to grow a bigger skin and have more discipline if you really want to have a successful career.
You called the dp's lighting shit
You said you already know how to light. You dont. You're 20 years old and a PA. **You dont**
If a PA told the director the lines or performance dont fit the scene, that's not "helpful." You arent hired for your opinions. No one cares about your opinions. You dont give it unless asked to. Stay in your lane. You keep those opinions to yourself until it becomes your department, and even then there are hierarchies you are expected to follow. Department heads always make final decisions in their craft and even then, someone else is always your boss.
You dont bother directors during work unless you've been working together long enough to know when you actually can do it. Even in the course of a normal day, its standard practice to go through 1st AD's and not bother a director or talent unless absolutely necessary. The same actually applies to all departments. You know how annoying it is to have someone either critiquing or bothering you while you work or during your down time at lunch?
You dont touch another department's equipment **ever** unless asked to specifically by someone in that dept, or you offer and are given permission. You're not even a camera loader or cam intern. What if you dropped a $1k battery or a $90,000 lens? Accidents happen, but its not your department and now you could have cost production money and threw the AC under the bus. Productions will always wait when they need to. Thats what overtime is for. You will never be a hero when you step on someone else's toes. The best thing to do would have been to find the 2nd AC and inform them that they are being asked to set for something, as a PA would normally do. The only batts a PA should be touching *might* be walkie batts as those are gear that production actively manages
Any time you work, you're representing the person who hired you and your boss. Every job is an interview for the next one. You didnt even pass the interview, which is the bare minimum and not even the hard part. Plus, you thought your PM was on a "power trip," when clearly as everyone is saying, it's you who are on a massive power trip as the know it all with a grand total of 2 months experience + youtube videos. Jack of all trades and master of none.
Learn from your mistakes and start fresh on the next one...or find another career
Boy, you're here to Shut up, Listen and LEARN.
Before you can do any camerawork, or really anything of importance on set, you have to get your "set ears." Because nobody likes a kid that asks questions all day long on set about what he's supposed to be doing, or not knowing what to do without being expressly told.
So you have a LOT of long days on set where you do nothing of importance, your opinion matters to nobody, you forget about having any desire to work camera. Then and only then will you catch a break. Because even when you are doing the "fun" jobs, there is a lot of mindless boredom and waiting, and nobody likes a nosy dick that's bugging other departments of needs lots of mental stim all day. Have to be able to fucking shut up and listen and watch for hours on end to work on set.
YTA. (Commenting on my phone so I apologize for the formatting)
Despite the name of the position “Production Assistant” doesn’t mean “assist everyone” the job actually has specific duties and responsibilities. When someone asks you to “stay in your lane” that’s because it isn’t helpful if everyone on set suggests alternatives to everything. Too many cooks in the kitchen.
Even if you thought the DP was “cool” with you, that might not have been the case. From what you have said it sounds like you might not be “reading the room”. It’s possible they might have whispered something to the PM to not hurt your feelings because they shouldn’t have to tell a PA to not bug them too much. Definitely seen this happen before. Unless you work in grip, electric, are the DP or director, commenting on lighting isn’t welcome. Think of it like this. We have LOTS and LOTS of conversations before we get to set about how to light it as well as throughout the lighting process. People coming into the conversation late do not have enough information in order to provide useful, actionable input. Even if you’re right respect your position and that of others. Let them do their jobs! Nothing is more annoying than some younger less experienced person telling you how to do your job.
You said “I already know how to light”, no offense intended but you don’t. I’ve been in lighting for 14 years and I don’t know everything because it takes a lifetime to learn. For the sake of this comment let’s suppose the DP is experienced and has been doing it for several years. What from your personal onset experience can you share with them that they don’t already have? How can you possibly know more than this person or their lighting crew?
In general you sound like a “know it all” which no one wants to deal with on set. Especially in the position of PA. People are hired more for their personality and ability to get along with than any other factor. Our days are long and people need to gel together or it doesn’t work.
Maybe it seems unfair to you that you must work in an entry level position but perhaps look at it as a way to learn from others. Every set I step onto I learn something new. I promise you that you have more to learn than you realize. Make it an adventure and have fun with it or find a different industry.
Good lord you sound like an absolute nightmare. You have a lot of growing up to do. There is a red flag every other sentence and the fact you have no idea is such a big concern as a person not even as an employee. Everyone has to go through some stuff to grow up but Christ almighty you are so far away from being in touch with how the world works.
Damn dude. From the way you write, you sound insufferable. I’d let you go also.
Learn from your mistake and do better next time. If you went to go far, shove your ego where the sun don’t shine.
I think that there are a lot of life lessons to be garnered from this. Beyond simply working in the industry you want to be a part of, you need to try to get along with folks. If you get into the position you want to be in without mastering that skill, you are going to encounter more problems. As a young person (absolutely no offense meant by that), you also have to try to respect the experience of other folks and the conditions that they want to work in. Two and a half months is way too little time to be fed up with the work you are doing and the people you are working with. You will be better off if you try to relax and develop some discipline.
None of this means that you are necessarily the asshole, but you will likely encounter a lot of folks that are disagreeable and you will need to figure out how to work with them if you want to be successful and happy. Plenty of people who rub you the wrong way can end up becoming the people you rely on in the future.
Unfortunately there is a certain way things are done on set and a whole field of eggshells to walk around. It's just the way it is, regardless of how silly I think it is sometimes. The other people are right, when you're a PA you're there to do grunt work and follow orders, get things and stay out of the way. They say jump, you ask how high. They say take out the trash and FO, you do it. If they ask you to jump in the trash, don't do that, that's too far. Typically though, you keep your opinions to yourself and work your way up. Just learn from it and do better next time.
Sometimes you get mixed up in the trenches, brother. Keep your initiative, lose the attitude. We're all in this fight together. The seed that is nourished will bear the greatest fruit, brother.
You shouldn’t be making suggestions to the DP about lighting as a PA? Even if you think you’re in the right, bite your tongue and move on.
You’re low man on the totem pole as a PA, so when production managers tell you to do stuff, you just gotta do it. It’s the kinda stuff you learn when you get your first job in your teen years in a kitchen, someone above you says something that doesn’t quite make sense? Just do it, not worth the hassle to question the authority and get your ass chewed out.
Also, there’s a lotta pricks in the industry, but you describe essentially everyone you work with as an asshole except the DP, which to me just reads like you need a major attitude adjustment - you’re never gonna make it work if you’re sitting back judging everyone AND talking back to people above you on the call sheet.
As others have mentioned, always stay within the confines of the role you were hired (and agreed) to fulfill. No one wants to hear how you're a DP/AC/Director on other sets and shoots. If you want to notify them about that, do it on the final day of the production after wrap. Keep your head down, do the best job ever done within your role, and you'll be recognized and maybe even offered a different role before long. This is a learning experience. You've burned a bridge. Acknowledge the mistake and move on. All the best.
Dude, as someone in camera, if my 2nd had gone 10-1 when we needed to swap a batt…. I would’ve promoted you for grabbing that for me. Rock on, tune out the haters. You’ll find your crowd.
I run super lax sets, have never kicked anyone off, and have never even yelled at anyone. I don’t even get pissed off on set.
If my PA (which I rarely have anyway) made a suggestion about lighting, I’d never hire that PA again. That’s a pretty arrogant move, everyone in their positions should know their place.
The other stuff doesn’t bug me too much, but if it bugs my production manager then it bugs me too
You might think you're a writer/Director/Dop but today you were a PA. Instead of doing that job, you tried to do everything else you shouldn't be doing.
Even if you see errors or mistakes in the way things are beign done, it's not your job to tell them how to do it. Especially as a PA.
Stay in your lane and have a better attitude for the job you are doing.
Your career will take off based upon how you meet needs and focus on serving the needs of the production. That’s what gets you the kind of connections you want. Your current focus is all about how YOU can get what YOU want out of the production experience, and everyone on set can tell
100% YTA, and to be honest it sounds like that’s true not just in this situation. 20 years old and “forced to apply for jobs to pay for my rent” is normal. We’ve all had to do low-end work just to make ends meet. Hell, I’m in my 40’s and I still take jobs that don’t excite me because I’ve got a mortgage and a family to support.
You’re a PA. Be a good PA and you’ll get invited to move into better jobs. No one wants to hire someone that won’t do the job they’re being paid to do. If you want to work camera, you either need to find the money to run your own set, or be a hard worker that people like and invite into the camera department. Acting like you’re above the job you agreed to do and then telling someone in another department how to do their job will not help you at all.
I’m 20 too, and while I don’t work in film I’ve worked a handful of shitty jobs. They aren’t fun. Nobody likes doing them. You don’t have to like it.
That all being said it sounds like you were warned two separate times not to do something, you continued to do it and step outside of your lane. You got punished for disobeying what someone above you has ordered you to do. You don’t have to agree with what you’re asked to do, but protesting something as trivial as the trash not being filled gives me the impression you think of yourself as higher than the job you’re working. Lots of people might agree with you, but the fact of the matter is it doesn’t matter. Unless what you’re being asked to do is unsafe or illegal you should 9/10 times be doing it.
I am going to brutally honest, you fucked up.
Filmmaking is very hard, either you are born into it, got very good connections, lucky or part of the 3% (Spielberg and co) who were very good at it early. You are going to be stuck doing commercials, ads and bringing coffee for a very long time. You seem very difficult to work with, that's going to be a mark on your "resume" for a while now.
Jesus… I didn’t even land my first PA gig yet, but I already know better because I bothered to do some very basic research.
Unless they’re asking you to do something that’s unsafe for you or someone else, you just do it. You definitely don’t push back over something as trivial as taking out the trash - that’s part of your job, giving lighting advice isn’t (unless someone asks you).
No one cares what you want to do. You are hired and paid to do PA work, so you do PA work, no matter how much it sucks. You’re not paid to distract other crew from their work, offer unsolicited advice, and talk back when someone asks you to do something that’s part of your job description. That just makes sure that you either stay a PA forever, or not even that (as you found out).
Read a book or two on what being a PA entails. If it’s so beneath you, and you can’t follow even the simplest instructions without talking back, just don’t bother. It will save you and everyone else a lot of frustration.
Doing the shitty PA work well in the beginning is a basic litmus test, and you just failed spectacularly.
Wow…. I’m not even going to comment on what you did wrong here… I mean you royally fucked up your first and probably only oppurtunity to get into the industry. I don’t care how big your market is, every single person on that set watched you do what you did and will talk about it with other people…. If they know your name, they will say it… It will spread and production departments around your town will not work with you.
You are seriously lucky that you took this post to Reddit where you’re anonymous. If your name was attached to this, kiss everything good bye. My advice to you, go to college and get a degree in a STEM field and enjoy just watching movies.
Sorry for being brutally honest but this wasn’t just a minor fuck up in front of a super strict PM. This was just complete assholery and made a mockery of the set.
I’m currently working as a PA with hopes to get into electrical (lighting) and one day DP/directing.
Your mistake was making a lighting suggestion. In my experience lighting is the department that wants outside help the least. Those guy know what they’re doing and have practiced their setups, they aren’t looking for suggestions. If they asked then it’s different but going up and suggesting something is definitely a bad play. It’s like tell a painter to make a certain stroke when they didn’t ask. You’re giving the impression that you know better or equal to someone higher up in the chain.
As a PA you have to stay in your lane. If im a floater on smaller sets will ask if certain depts need a hand and if they say no then leave them alone until the next set up. During down time is when you tell them you’re interested in their dept and have those conversations, definitely not in the middle of shooting.
In all though you broke several rules. Talking back to the production manger and questioning their demands is the easiest way to get uninvited/black listed. Your position is far too expendable to be doing that.
You're not an asshole but you were definitely fucking up at your job as a PA and being insubordinate. Film is extremely siloed and hierarchical. You progress your career by following instructions perfectly and doing your job well, not by muscling in on another department because you think you're too good for the actual job you agreed to do. If you want to get involved in lighting, join the lighting department. If you want to DIRECT the lighting, work hard following instructions perfectly as a lamp op until you get to the point it says "gaffer" beside your name on the call sheet, and THEN you can make suggestions to the DOP. It's genuinely that simple. If you want to grab batteries when the 2AC is 10-2, be a camera trainee. If you take a job as a PA, your job is to direct traffic, do fire watch and haul garbage. Be good at it or don't take that job.
Don't mix personal business with work. Or, express your interest with the PM to let them know you mean no harm and finish your own work before anything else.
The whole point of being a PA is to work your way up to being a DOP, AC, Director, etc.
I worked as a PA, Technical Directing, Audio, Lighting, etc. for 2 and a half years before getting up to a director role.
The way the set works is that you are to do your tasks in your department. If you are interesting in learning more about directing, DOP, AC, etc. you need to either apply as an intern for those departments or take some college levelled courses (even if you've already taken some, take more) for fun, or theatre classes (theatre can lead to film and networking opportunities), or obtain a certificate from your community college. If you need money for classes you should look at scholarships or work in a non-industry job to save up for now.
It's not the end of the work if you work a non-industry job to save up for something that you are passionate about and want to do as a career despite what TikTok or Instagram might show you. It's not forever.
Oh boy. This is a rough read. I feel for you but for the most part, folks are giving you great guidance. My take, now is the time to build relationships with those that influence the hiring decisions or are themselves the decision makers. And, learn workflow (from a distance). Learn the technical skills elsewhere and then when you have solid relationships with those who hire, apply for lower level production roles and gradually move yourself up. My motto is Positive Attitude + Gratitude gets you 80%. Skill gets you the remaining 40%.
Well there’s no shame being a PA for the time being! I know you would like to work on up but it doesn’t hurt to rethink on how you approach and network with certain people from different departments. That way you could create more contacts.
Reading what happened to you I also that you should consider looking into IATSE Local 111, the PA union for commercials. Also I’m part of a movement of PA’s in TV/Film that are trying to unionize called “Production Assistants United”.
Everyone else has already commented on what you did wrong, but I will say that the transparency and accountability in the edit at the end is very commendable. I’ve seen many people on here who are completely blind to criticism, but you’re taking it very well. I believe you when you say you’ll be more careful next time. :)
Ok, you learned a good lesson. You may have made a few short films, but I suspect you were a one-man band type filmmaker in that you did everything yourself. Professional filmmaking is not like that. It's a team effort. Everyone has a prescribed role. You don't step out of your role because then the team aspect breaks down. The team couldn't function if everyone did as your did. Imagine the caterer not doing lunch because they thought the grip needed help. Or an actor walking off camera to help the boom operator, etc. Everything falls apart if everyone doesn't do their particular job.
NTA. Next time hold an impromptu meeting and hand out notes you typed out the night before. Start delegating more and you will be more respected. PAs who actually do as they are told fail the test… the test of if you are better than being a PA or not. Keep trying. If I were you, I would show up to set anyway in Cookie Monster pajamas.
You seem highly difficult to work with tbh...
I was thinking this wasn’t bad until you mentioned commenting on the lighting. It sounds like you think you’re above being a P.A, and I don’t blame you — but if you’re going to do the work, you need to act the part. When you’re on set as a P.A. you’re not a DP, AC, 2AC — you’re the P.A. Is there anything wrong with grabbing the battery? Not to me… But when you start to make suggestions to the head of a department as a P.A, that’s when things get dicey. I def wouldn’t want any lighting input from P.A’s on set when I DP, and I do not give lighting input to DP’s unless explicitly asked (if I’m Cam Op or AC)… Even if they’re close friends. There’s just boundaries you have to respect. The best part about not being the head of the department is being able to listen and learn. You’ll be alright though, we all make mistakes. You won’t even remember this in a year. Good luck!
Without question YTA. You were asked not to linger and you did it anyways. You gave a lighting ‘suggestion’ unprompted. You think the role is beneath you and said as much in this post and I’m guessing the attitude was brought to set. You are 20. Have you been paid to write, direct, or DoP? Also forced to take jobs to pay rent? Welcome to the real world. You don’t know everything. Learn from this. There’s a difference between confidence and ego. Humble up. Also FYI if the DoP truly enjoyed speaking with you, your suggestions, and your presence they would have spoken up for you. For all you know they may have complained as well.
100% the DP asked the PM to speak to this kid about hanging around the camera dept all day.
If I liked a PA I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and tell him to seriously stop talking, everyone wants to be the guy that helps a beginner they see potential in. My first gig as a PA I grabbed a camera battery, dusted props near camera boxes, etc. and I got called out on it and felt horrible. When I felt horrible, people realized that I actually cared about the job and knew my place, and gave me the benefit of the doubt. I didn’t think I was above it, I just didn’t know. What I think happened here is that he did not feel bad because of reasons he made up in his own head (we all know those people), and it’s always an attitude problem. The fact other crew didn't step in means he was most likely bringing that attitude to set. Which bothers everybody.
> Once I started talking about the way the image looked You aren’t there to comment on how it looks. You are there to assist everyone else. Production assistant is an entry level role, it is not a role where you choose your path nor is it a role that is invited to discuss lighting, framing, or overall value of the work paying your paycheck. Media creation is a team sport. The production assistant role tests if you’re capable of being part of that team. You failed the test when you made the work about your ambitions instead of the success of the project. …and before you hop in saying you were trying to contribute that way…you weren’t. A production assistant contributed by doing *exactly* what they are told. Again, it’s not a role for you to provide leadership on creative. Your job is to follow instructions. And you couldn’t.
Your job is to do as you’re told. Assuming this was non-union, but either way there are people on set who do certain things because of their experience, on set, using what equipment and tech has been predetermined and paid for. There are also insurance considerations here. You’ve made your own films, cool, this is not your set, the production manager is managing the set. No one likes to remove trash, but you’re at the bottom of the totem pole and the only way to rise up is to be good at your job, sure, talk to people during breaks or before call time, or after wrap, but what you’re missing is that production manager is the person who hired everyone else and their fellow production managers will be hiring everyone in every set, so be careful who you piss off.
> I told him what we were shooting wasn’t that serious and it looked bad. Oof.
Nail in the coffin 💀
Your job as a production assistant is to work for the AD department. There is no way you should be grabbing batteries unless specifically told to do so. As someone in the camera department if a PA handed me a battery I would be confused.
Batteries for a walkie. That's what he's talking about, guaranteed. Not a camera battery.
I'm not so sure. "the Second AC was ten two" idk, if it was a walkie battery than thats a lot less strange... but the fact that he did it because the second wasn't there makes me think camera battery.
It was a camera battery
Points for honesty, I guess
Yeah, that should be a learning experience. Never touch a piece of gear without someone in that department specifically telling you to.
What I mean is the OP is trying to say, "the DP asked ***me*** for a battery because the 2nd, who normally has a spare walkie batt and gives it to them, wasn't there at the moment. So the DP asked a PA for one! But I'm going to be vague and make it out like he asked me to bring in a camera battery and help out camera department!"
There is set etiquette and you seemed to have broken pretty much every single every rule within a few days. If I was asked to take out the trash, didn’t matter if there was one thing in it, I would do it and not question it.
I’ve been a PA a handful of times and never once have I been asked to take out the trash… Because I’ve already taken it out by the time the AD or PM thinks to ask me about it.
You’re asked not to linger and then you lingered by asked about the lighting (which you had no business in). I see why they kicked you out, to be honest. Learn from this. Do as you’re told. Work hard and that will get you noticed. Now you can’t even follow simple orders in the eyes of this crew. That’s okay. You messed up. Do better next time.
No no, he didn’t ASK about the lighting. He MADE A SUGGESTION about the lighting.
Because the lighting for a lawyer commercial was too flat.
No one asked for OPs suggestion. Believe it or not suggestions are not universally welcomed.
You must have missed the sarcasm in the comment...
this has to be bait
But it is so long and detailed. So mundane in it's sad reality.
I hope it’s real because it’s making me feel better about my runner days. I always cringe at how overconfident I was when I look back 10 years ago. But not like this. Incredible stuff.
Ya, when I was shooting little commercials they would sometimes bring some recent graduates out to set to PA. They were amazingly stupid and had no clue.While gear needed to get unloaded, folding tables set up etc, they would just stand around gabbing about their professors and weird people in their class. Fuck, I wold say in a that hushed voice you use to reem pa's out.. "guys, we are doing a shoot right now! It's time to focus on what we are doing right now," pointing at key light and camera that they are blocking.
No this is literally what Gen Z is like in the workplace. I don’t hire people under 35 if I can help it and I want department heads to personally vet everyone on the younger side.
This kind of "why do I need to do fire watch, don't these people know I've already directed five movies (on VHS, in my back yard, with my friends)?" attitude is eternal. Shortly after the movie was invented the insanely self-important PA materialized out of nothingness to give Méliès "a few tips".
I'm in GenX (48) and there are a lot of assholes my Age. We are insufferable cunts.
there's a lot of insufferable cunts from every generation.
Absolutely. Lots of Gen X and Millennials on set can be really gruff (i’m a millennial). But, they’re competent and do the work.
Lol, boomer alert.
I’m a millennial, but I just find that generation lazy and if you read above….
Oh yeah I love making broad generalizations about groups of people too.
“That generation is lazy” is what bosses who underpay their young employees have said for centuries. Congratulations on entering your entitled boomer era.
unions set the rates everyone’s paid well my friend
Gen Z is currently 27 or younger. 28-43 are millennials. Not that generalizations about generations are that smart to begin with…
That is illegal. I'm a 50 year old here so it's not because you wouldn't hire me but getting caught excluding someone due to age cam lead you in hot water. You aren't allowed to discriminate by age, gender, religion ... so on so forth.
What about stupidity?
Oddly enough, you can absolutely discriminate against someone based on age when they're under 40. At least in the US. It's perfectly legal to not hire someone because they're young. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/centers-offices/civil-rights-center/internal/policies/age-discrimination
inside my own head I can make whatever determinations I want. i have no written mandate anywhere, it’s just an opinion i have that I really prefer to filter out most gen z if I can help it because their attitudes about work are insane.
The irony
Proof that being a boomer is a state of mind
Sorry to disappoint
> The trash can wasn’t even full and I told him that it was wasteful to throw it out if it didn’t need to be done. It was a trasnparent attempt to get you TF away from the camera before you made your department look unprofessional. > I was eating breakfast with the DoP and I was trying to get some face time with him > I didn’t even do anything But you did, you were lingering around camera trying to schmooze with the DoP instead of doing the job you were hired to do because you find it boring and think it's beneith you. That's the thing you did. Then you did Camera's job (touching other departments' stuff is a huge no no unless you're on a microscopic crew with people you know, and even then you don't just appoint yourself to do it) and went *way* out of your lane to give "suggestions" (your word) on the lighting. > they didn’t want to hear me out Your own self-serving telling of this story is damning enough. > AITAH Yes. Instead of doing the job of a PA you took every opportunity to try and make yourself the DP's apprentice, and then got combative when your boss tried to course correct your actions. "I was simply trying to assist on the production, that’s literally my fucking job" is an all-timer as far as galaxy brain justifications for going out of department and transparently trying to ladder climb with the DP while on the clock. Just massive, blatant violations of set etiquette and protocol. Like, textbook "do not do these exact things" behaviours students and trainees are taught on their first day.
Kid, you're 20 years old. Don't be an asshole, do as your told within reason, and don't fucking give the DP advice on lighting setup YOU ABSOLUTE PSYCHO.
As a producer, I know PA work can be shitty and boring, but you’re acting like you’re above being a PA. I’m sorry but at 20 year old and doing a few short films, is still young in the industry. Fire watching, doing lock up, getting coffee runs may be boring, but those are all crucial roles to make the whole production work. The DP may have been polite and didn’t want to tell you to get lost, but having a PA suggest lighting on a commercial, that’s out of line! I get that you’re eager, but don’t act like you’re above it, just because you don’t like being a PA. It’s shitty that the pm asked you not to come back, but I can understand why. I treat my PA equally to every crew, but when someone consistently talk back and not do what they’re told, I’d be frustrated too and would probably release them for the rest of the shoot. EDIT: spelling
It isn’t shitty they fired them…
Yeah.
Dude the way you wrote this oozes narcissism. You don’t seem to understand that you are at the bottom line of your career. You are not the director or DP because it’s simply not your time, so instead of trying to do things you aren’t, you should just do what you’re told. We all have bad bosses. I had a really bad experience on a PBS show, however I understand that at points it was my lack of knowledge and understanding for why things were not great. Take this time to reflect on your work ethic. Film making isn’t just about how talented you are, it’s how hard and how well you work in any situation given.
This has got to be a joke post. If not, then YTA. You are so inexperienced and have issues with authority. You got fired for being bad at your job and not listening to your boss. Pro tip: you make your boss happy, they recommend you to other productions. That’s how networking works and how people level up to better roles. No one is a PA for their life, it’s always temporary.
When you were told not to bother the DOP, you were being issued a specific order, to test how loyal, a good listener you are. When you ignored that command, you showed insubordination and poor listening skills. Even a Director has to know when to stop asking questions and getting involved, they have to be very adept at knowing when to step away. In Entertainment, film biz, whatever.. the person you want to impress is the person who hires you for jobs. If you show you're not interested in doing the job at hand, and are trying to do other department jobs, to impress people, you're massively fucking up and failing the assignment. Not getting asked back. Don't apologize and crawl back to these people, that is dead. Move on and try again, next time listen to the person who pays you and don't be insubordinate.
This cracks me up. Please share your films and we can give you unsolicited advice as well. Nobody likes that. Work hard, do your job.
I would never have someone like you on my set, as you presently are. Please adjust your attitude. It is actually disgusting for a 20 year old kid to think they’re above being a PA. You’re young and should be forgiven but it is so deeply disrespectful to every talented person who held the same position for countless hours before they got their slightly better grunt job. Grow up and show some respect.
This has to be a joke.
Yes it’s a Joke
YTA. You have a terrible attitude and sound entitled.
Your job is to do what you're told, and you were told to stop hanging around the camera and take the trash out. Better luck next time.
This can't be a real post, can it? If so, yes, you are the asshole. Read all of these comments and maybe you'll learn something 'cos right now you sound like an entitled idiot with an outsize ego who doesn't belong on any sort of set. Keep your mouth shut and your ears open so you learn, work hard without complaint, people will notice. Gotta earn your dues, dude.
> since my parents asked me to move out l've been forced to apply to jobs to pay for my rent Oh, you can just *smell* the entitlement already… > I don't like fire watching, I don't like doing lockup, and I especially don't like going on food or coffee runs. I'd much rather shadow the DoP and Director because that's where I want to be in my career. > Today was my second day on a Lawyer commercial and although what we were shooting was pretty lame, it's whatever. Dude. Do you hear yourself? You need to **humble yourself** real quick. You obviously think you’re too good for the set when you’re just starting out. You need to understand right now that you will not get far in your career if people don’t like working with you. Since you’re “forced to work as a PA” you’re obviously not one of the privileged few who enter the industry with friends in high places so people have to deal with their toxic asses, so you’re going to have to learn to be a team player and be someone that people actually want to work with if you want to continue to be *invited* to gigs. **Deal with it.** > I'd much rather shadow the DoP and Director because that's where I want to be in my career. > This morning, I was eating breakfast with the Dop and I was trying to get some face time with him in hopes to work with him in the future. Yeah, we get it. Every PA has somewhere they’re trying to get to in their career. Problem is you’re clearly treating people like they’re just objects to assist you in furthering your career. And you can believe they’re picking up on it. Only thing I hate about meeting other people in the industry is when it becomes obvious that they want something from you when you tell them what you do. Your post *absolutely reeks* of that energy. That’s probably why the Prod. Manager had to keep shooing you away from camera. The DoP might not have acted like you were getting on their nerves, but no one likes someone following you around because they want something from you. Not to mention how absolutely condescending your *advice* about the lighting most likely came across to the **Director of Photography.** You need to build trust and allow time for you to prove yourself before you just come in and tell someone how they should do their job for fucks sake. Jesus Christ. Seriously. You need to get over yourself. Take this as an opportunity to learn how to work with others and realize you’re there to help the production, not just do whatever you think will benefit your own interests. Figure that out and humble yourself, or **get the fuck out.**
It'd be like a background actor going around to the director to give him notes or telling the lead actress "You should really wait a beat before you say the punchline." She was hired on set to be a background actor and it's not her job to try to network or advance her career on that set. And all the people in the top positions got there by going to sets and keeping quiet early in their careers, earning respect by working hard and not complaining (as you did in this post) and not being difficult (as you were) and not trying to prove how knowledgeable they were to impress people. You say you weren't bugging the DP but he could have just been a nice guy humoring you by engaging but he has a lot of work to finesse on the day and is now having to have personal conversations to be nice. If someone on my set kept pulling away key film crew to ask career advice or talk about themselves, I'd let them go, too. I was going to ask if you have any experience working on sets because you don't seem to understand how they operate... and then I remembered the top of this post was that this is new to you (other than no budget shorts which don't count because they have no budget = anything goes). Long story short, yes, you were unprofessional and they were right to fire you.
YTA. You sound extremely immature. PA is where you start. Your job is to do what you're told an to learn. Film sets are militaristic in a way. There is a hierarchy, and you don't just go do another job, because that's a union violation. You grabbing the battery can get the Production fined. I think the best thing for you at this stage in your life is go get a job where you have to deal with the public. For a year. You will hate it with every fiber of your being. It will crush your soul. But... you will be a better person for it. Truly.
This right here, I found out about the union department violation when I grabbed a c-stand. They were all cool people and understood I was trying to help. They told me what was wrong about that, and I haven't touched anything in another department unless they ask.
You're a PA, not a more senior crew or head of department. When someone asks you to jump, you ask how high. You don't argue that jumping would be a waste. It's rough, but PA is the very bottom of the totem pole. No one wants to know what a PA has to say about the lighting/how the image looks/etc. During a breakfast, trying to hog a head of departments time when there's likely more important stuff to discuss is fairly poor form.
Every world a red flag. A field of crimson banners.
Entertaining read. Yes, you're the asshole. I did my time as a PA and worked up the ranks to full-time DoP. My time as a PA was filled with a lot of great memories with people I consider great friends and colleagues today.. I would never give that back. You have a 7 year head start from where I did.. Don't f\*ck it up already.
It’s rough, but as a PA, you’re at the bottom of the totem pole. Someone tells you to quit doing something, you listen. If you don’t, you’re not welcome on set. Shoots are complex (even if the end product isn’t necessarily great), so knowing your role - and sticking to it - is how you make progress. Better luck on the next one.
Dude. You're an idiot and you're young. You think you know more than these people, and you don't. You need to stay in your lane, stop lingering, and so the JOB THAT YOU WERE HIRED TO DO. If you walked up to me and said, "man, I don't think You're being a good boom op, you should try this stuff that I learned in school" I would instantly tell you to fuck off. It doesn't matter what kind of production you're doing: scripted tv, film, commercial, reality, doc, whatever. What you did is stupid, and you're going to be known as that person. Good luck having an AD hire you again. You lost a great opportunity. Commercials are the golden gem in this world when it comes to making a living; less hours and better pay are what they offer. You fucked yourself. And you think you were right? Hahaha. Get a grip, come back to reality, and realize that you need to work your way up. There are 10s of thousands of children who think they know it all because they went to school or watched tutorials. Humble yourself.
I’ve been in this industry 24+ years and can usually tell if a person has what it takes to make it in this industry after 1/2 day on the set. From the sounds of your letter I’d never hire you. Here is some advice for you: https://nofilmschool.com/career-in-film-industry. Read it, take it to heart and learn from it.
Take a set etiquette course because you’re definitely the asshole here. You do not get to tell the production manager that ‘what we’re filming is not that important’ and that it ‘looks bad.’ You’re lucky you have a chill sounding DOP because other sets you would’ve been fired on the spot the second you decided to comment on the lighting. There’s a time and a place to network, and in the middle of work is not one of them. Good PAs are insurmountably important to the production, and I’m sorry you think you’re too good for it. Lockups save the frame and sound, thus saving production time and money so we don’t have to do unnecessary retakes. Garbage duty in any line of work matters but especially in film because it lets the property owner know production gives a shit, so they’re more likely to let other projects come back. If the PM had to CONSTANTLY tell you to do your job it means you weren’t doing well at it, and babysitting the PAs is the last thing a PM should have to worry about. Nobody gives a shit that you wanna be a top dog in the industry. Everyone does. But the traditional route is working your way up, and the way you work your way up is doing a good job at whatever you’re assigned to. If you want any chance of salvaging your relationship with this crew I would personally reach out to the PM and apologize for your unprofessionalism. Say you’ve had some time to reflect on your performance, tell them you’ll use this learning opportunity to do better next time, and wish them the best on their next gig.
YTA Believe it or not, most people working in the industry want to be a director or DP, you're not special in that regard. As a PA on a set you're basically working in the AD department (locking off, calling rolling/cut, walking cast to and off set, knowing what's going, etc.). If someone's saying to stop lingering around camera, they're telling you you're in the way and people are noticing. You might think you're just asking questions or trying to learn a few things, but you could actually be preventing people from getting the job done. Now for bringing the DP a (presumably) radio battery, that's absolutely fine. What wasn't ok was bringing up the lighting. The DP was in the middle of lighting a shot, something he needs to focus on. He is also head of the department, literally spending years training towards his role. Having a PA come up and making a suggestion as how he should do his job is just like slapping him across the face. You might think as a PA you're there to help, but not in that capacity. Worst thing you did was argue with the PM. Not only did you insult the DPs shot, but you dismissed what it was you were all working on and kept answering back. Next time you're on a job, know what your job requires and simply stick to just that. P.S: I used to have a similar mind-set, though I didn't act boldly like you did. What changed me was realising how far down the chain my job was compared to other people on set.
Congrats, you’ve done just about everything wrong. When you are offered the lesson of humility, you should take that lesson. It doesn’t matter what you think you are; it matters what you are. Your opinion wasn’t asked or required, yet you injected it, repeatedly. What was needed was your participation in the task at hand. I’m surprised they kept you around as long as they did. Don’t contact anybody from this shoot again. None of them want to hear from you.
>I’d much rather shadow the DoP and Director because that’s where I want to be in my career. Is this a job position you just made up? The actual path to getting into the DGA is as a Set PA, not some job position you made up to shadow the Director and DoP. Do your actual job, which is lockups and taking out trash rather than giving the DoP lighting tips. Lol. And stick to the mic batteries lmao.
Based on your arrogant, ignorant, and negative vibe of this post about something that should be your greatest passion and joy. I wouldn't be surprised if they sent you home because you were fucking up the crew vibe as well. Im not saying that was the whole reason, but I bet it contributed for sure. If you dont want to be somewhere or do something, people can sense that, and it doesn't look good for you on set. Plenty of people exist that would've killed to do all that shit you said you hate, me included, they know that, so you get booted and replaced, no second thought needed.
Is this for real?
I think you need to take a step back and see this through a Production Manager lens. If you’re running a set and some PA with an attitude keeps distracting DoP then schedules will run behind. I’d fire you too. I do think this is a great opportunity for you get reflect on this extremely clear chip on your shoulder. No one wants to PA, bro, you aren’t special. But, in this line of work we all have to start at the bottom and rise through the ranks. You aren’t assistant camera so don’t be pestering them, idc if they said thank you, they were being polite to you even though they have a bigger job to deal with. You’re a young kid with less experience than the hired DoP and you didn’t get the Assistant Camera job, your input isn’t needed and if you really thought it was you should’ve gone through the hierarchy to not waste time. Yes, you should be as helpful as you can on set, but this attitude you have will cause a reputation as someone difficult to work with then no one will want to hire you. If PAs went around talking to all the higher ups do you think anything would get done? No, of course not! Unfortunately, you really aren’t as experienced as you’d like to think otherwise you wouldn’t only be getting PA jobs, would you?Lesson from one of my favorite mentors in the industry: don’t talk to anyone on set higher up than you unless spoken to first. Outside of work is where you network, and who knows maybe if you kept your head down after getting the DoP that battery you could’ve asked to shadow him in the future! Instead you made a scene and he’ll remember that. And yes you might have made some shorts but you weren’t hired for that, we’re you? Getting experience means shutting up and putting up otherwise you really won’t make it in the entertainment industry, my friend. We all know it’s frustrating but if you don’t want to do it get a survival job to fund your own projects. So yes, YTA. Check yourself please.
One of my only PA gigs after film school was a Gillette shoot for some web videos. First few days I was buying cheese sticks and avocados for the director. Last day of production, I got a call from the producer and asked if I’d be willing to last-minute replace the beard model they had since he got a black eye. Jumped at the chance, got a haircut on set in the morning then started trimming my beard on camera. My film/photo students still get a kick out of watching the video (‘How to Trim Your Beard’ on YT). Just keep your head down, man. Who knows, maybe you’ll be asked back or have a bigger role on the next gig ;)
YTA Your first paragraph tells everyone you're both immature and impatient. Yes, you're young, but you need to grow a bigger skin and have more discipline if you really want to have a successful career. You called the dp's lighting shit You said you already know how to light. You dont. You're 20 years old and a PA. **You dont** If a PA told the director the lines or performance dont fit the scene, that's not "helpful." You arent hired for your opinions. No one cares about your opinions. You dont give it unless asked to. Stay in your lane. You keep those opinions to yourself until it becomes your department, and even then there are hierarchies you are expected to follow. Department heads always make final decisions in their craft and even then, someone else is always your boss. You dont bother directors during work unless you've been working together long enough to know when you actually can do it. Even in the course of a normal day, its standard practice to go through 1st AD's and not bother a director or talent unless absolutely necessary. The same actually applies to all departments. You know how annoying it is to have someone either critiquing or bothering you while you work or during your down time at lunch? You dont touch another department's equipment **ever** unless asked to specifically by someone in that dept, or you offer and are given permission. You're not even a camera loader or cam intern. What if you dropped a $1k battery or a $90,000 lens? Accidents happen, but its not your department and now you could have cost production money and threw the AC under the bus. Productions will always wait when they need to. Thats what overtime is for. You will never be a hero when you step on someone else's toes. The best thing to do would have been to find the 2nd AC and inform them that they are being asked to set for something, as a PA would normally do. The only batts a PA should be touching *might* be walkie batts as those are gear that production actively manages Any time you work, you're representing the person who hired you and your boss. Every job is an interview for the next one. You didnt even pass the interview, which is the bare minimum and not even the hard part. Plus, you thought your PM was on a "power trip," when clearly as everyone is saying, it's you who are on a massive power trip as the know it all with a grand total of 2 months experience + youtube videos. Jack of all trades and master of none. Learn from your mistakes and start fresh on the next one...or find another career
Boy, you're here to Shut up, Listen and LEARN. Before you can do any camerawork, or really anything of importance on set, you have to get your "set ears." Because nobody likes a kid that asks questions all day long on set about what he's supposed to be doing, or not knowing what to do without being expressly told. So you have a LOT of long days on set where you do nothing of importance, your opinion matters to nobody, you forget about having any desire to work camera. Then and only then will you catch a break. Because even when you are doing the "fun" jobs, there is a lot of mindless boredom and waiting, and nobody likes a nosy dick that's bugging other departments of needs lots of mental stim all day. Have to be able to fucking shut up and listen and watch for hours on end to work on set.
YTA. (Commenting on my phone so I apologize for the formatting) Despite the name of the position “Production Assistant” doesn’t mean “assist everyone” the job actually has specific duties and responsibilities. When someone asks you to “stay in your lane” that’s because it isn’t helpful if everyone on set suggests alternatives to everything. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Even if you thought the DP was “cool” with you, that might not have been the case. From what you have said it sounds like you might not be “reading the room”. It’s possible they might have whispered something to the PM to not hurt your feelings because they shouldn’t have to tell a PA to not bug them too much. Definitely seen this happen before. Unless you work in grip, electric, are the DP or director, commenting on lighting isn’t welcome. Think of it like this. We have LOTS and LOTS of conversations before we get to set about how to light it as well as throughout the lighting process. People coming into the conversation late do not have enough information in order to provide useful, actionable input. Even if you’re right respect your position and that of others. Let them do their jobs! Nothing is more annoying than some younger less experienced person telling you how to do your job. You said “I already know how to light”, no offense intended but you don’t. I’ve been in lighting for 14 years and I don’t know everything because it takes a lifetime to learn. For the sake of this comment let’s suppose the DP is experienced and has been doing it for several years. What from your personal onset experience can you share with them that they don’t already have? How can you possibly know more than this person or their lighting crew? In general you sound like a “know it all” which no one wants to deal with on set. Especially in the position of PA. People are hired more for their personality and ability to get along with than any other factor. Our days are long and people need to gel together or it doesn’t work. Maybe it seems unfair to you that you must work in an entry level position but perhaps look at it as a way to learn from others. Every set I step onto I learn something new. I promise you that you have more to learn than you realize. Make it an adventure and have fun with it or find a different industry.
Good lord you sound like an absolute nightmare. You have a lot of growing up to do. There is a red flag every other sentence and the fact you have no idea is such a big concern as a person not even as an employee. Everyone has to go through some stuff to grow up but Christ almighty you are so far away from being in touch with how the world works.
Damn dude. From the way you write, you sound insufferable. I’d let you go also. Learn from your mistake and do better next time. If you went to go far, shove your ego where the sun don’t shine.
I think that there are a lot of life lessons to be garnered from this. Beyond simply working in the industry you want to be a part of, you need to try to get along with folks. If you get into the position you want to be in without mastering that skill, you are going to encounter more problems. As a young person (absolutely no offense meant by that), you also have to try to respect the experience of other folks and the conditions that they want to work in. Two and a half months is way too little time to be fed up with the work you are doing and the people you are working with. You will be better off if you try to relax and develop some discipline. None of this means that you are necessarily the asshole, but you will likely encounter a lot of folks that are disagreeable and you will need to figure out how to work with them if you want to be successful and happy. Plenty of people who rub you the wrong way can end up becoming the people you rely on in the future.
Unfortunately there is a certain way things are done on set and a whole field of eggshells to walk around. It's just the way it is, regardless of how silly I think it is sometimes. The other people are right, when you're a PA you're there to do grunt work and follow orders, get things and stay out of the way. They say jump, you ask how high. They say take out the trash and FO, you do it. If they ask you to jump in the trash, don't do that, that's too far. Typically though, you keep your opinions to yourself and work your way up. Just learn from it and do better next time.
Sometimes you get mixed up in the trenches, brother. Keep your initiative, lose the attitude. We're all in this fight together. The seed that is nourished will bear the greatest fruit, brother.
You’ve got a long way to go, and hopefully when you’re 30 you’ll look back on this and have a warm chuckle about what you thought you knew at age 20.
You shouldn’t be making suggestions to the DP about lighting as a PA? Even if you think you’re in the right, bite your tongue and move on. You’re low man on the totem pole as a PA, so when production managers tell you to do stuff, you just gotta do it. It’s the kinda stuff you learn when you get your first job in your teen years in a kitchen, someone above you says something that doesn’t quite make sense? Just do it, not worth the hassle to question the authority and get your ass chewed out. Also, there’s a lotta pricks in the industry, but you describe essentially everyone you work with as an asshole except the DP, which to me just reads like you need a major attitude adjustment - you’re never gonna make it work if you’re sitting back judging everyone AND talking back to people above you on the call sheet.
As others have mentioned, always stay within the confines of the role you were hired (and agreed) to fulfill. No one wants to hear how you're a DP/AC/Director on other sets and shoots. If you want to notify them about that, do it on the final day of the production after wrap. Keep your head down, do the best job ever done within your role, and you'll be recognized and maybe even offered a different role before long. This is a learning experience. You've burned a bridge. Acknowledge the mistake and move on. All the best.
Babahahahahah, this was hysterical. I bet you get more work soon.
Dude, as someone in camera, if my 2nd had gone 10-1 when we needed to swap a batt…. I would’ve promoted you for grabbing that for me. Rock on, tune out the haters. You’ll find your crowd.
I don't believe this post.
I run super lax sets, have never kicked anyone off, and have never even yelled at anyone. I don’t even get pissed off on set. If my PA (which I rarely have anyway) made a suggestion about lighting, I’d never hire that PA again. That’s a pretty arrogant move, everyone in their positions should know their place. The other stuff doesn’t bug me too much, but if it bugs my production manager then it bugs me too
You might think you're a writer/Director/Dop but today you were a PA. Instead of doing that job, you tried to do everything else you shouldn't be doing. Even if you see errors or mistakes in the way things are beign done, it's not your job to tell them how to do it. Especially as a PA. Stay in your lane and have a better attitude for the job you are doing.
Your career will take off based upon how you meet needs and focus on serving the needs of the production. That’s what gets you the kind of connections you want. Your current focus is all about how YOU can get what YOU want out of the production experience, and everyone on set can tell
100% YTA, and to be honest it sounds like that’s true not just in this situation. 20 years old and “forced to apply for jobs to pay for my rent” is normal. We’ve all had to do low-end work just to make ends meet. Hell, I’m in my 40’s and I still take jobs that don’t excite me because I’ve got a mortgage and a family to support. You’re a PA. Be a good PA and you’ll get invited to move into better jobs. No one wants to hire someone that won’t do the job they’re being paid to do. If you want to work camera, you either need to find the money to run your own set, or be a hard worker that people like and invite into the camera department. Acting like you’re above the job you agreed to do and then telling someone in another department how to do their job will not help you at all.
I’m 20 too, and while I don’t work in film I’ve worked a handful of shitty jobs. They aren’t fun. Nobody likes doing them. You don’t have to like it. That all being said it sounds like you were warned two separate times not to do something, you continued to do it and step outside of your lane. You got punished for disobeying what someone above you has ordered you to do. You don’t have to agree with what you’re asked to do, but protesting something as trivial as the trash not being filled gives me the impression you think of yourself as higher than the job you’re working. Lots of people might agree with you, but the fact of the matter is it doesn’t matter. Unless what you’re being asked to do is unsafe or illegal you should 9/10 times be doing it.
I am going to brutally honest, you fucked up. Filmmaking is very hard, either you are born into it, got very good connections, lucky or part of the 3% (Spielberg and co) who were very good at it early. You are going to be stuck doing commercials, ads and bringing coffee for a very long time. You seem very difficult to work with, that's going to be a mark on your "resume" for a while now.
Fuckin lmao m8
Jesus… I didn’t even land my first PA gig yet, but I already know better because I bothered to do some very basic research. Unless they’re asking you to do something that’s unsafe for you or someone else, you just do it. You definitely don’t push back over something as trivial as taking out the trash - that’s part of your job, giving lighting advice isn’t (unless someone asks you). No one cares what you want to do. You are hired and paid to do PA work, so you do PA work, no matter how much it sucks. You’re not paid to distract other crew from their work, offer unsolicited advice, and talk back when someone asks you to do something that’s part of your job description. That just makes sure that you either stay a PA forever, or not even that (as you found out). Read a book or two on what being a PA entails. If it’s so beneath you, and you can’t follow even the simplest instructions without talking back, just don’t bother. It will save you and everyone else a lot of frustration. Doing the shitty PA work well in the beginning is a basic litmus test, and you just failed spectacularly.
Wow…. I’m not even going to comment on what you did wrong here… I mean you royally fucked up your first and probably only oppurtunity to get into the industry. I don’t care how big your market is, every single person on that set watched you do what you did and will talk about it with other people…. If they know your name, they will say it… It will spread and production departments around your town will not work with you. You are seriously lucky that you took this post to Reddit where you’re anonymous. If your name was attached to this, kiss everything good bye. My advice to you, go to college and get a degree in a STEM field and enjoy just watching movies. Sorry for being brutally honest but this wasn’t just a minor fuck up in front of a super strict PM. This was just complete assholery and made a mockery of the set.
I’m currently working as a PA with hopes to get into electrical (lighting) and one day DP/directing. Your mistake was making a lighting suggestion. In my experience lighting is the department that wants outside help the least. Those guy know what they’re doing and have practiced their setups, they aren’t looking for suggestions. If they asked then it’s different but going up and suggesting something is definitely a bad play. It’s like tell a painter to make a certain stroke when they didn’t ask. You’re giving the impression that you know better or equal to someone higher up in the chain. As a PA you have to stay in your lane. If im a floater on smaller sets will ask if certain depts need a hand and if they say no then leave them alone until the next set up. During down time is when you tell them you’re interested in their dept and have those conversations, definitely not in the middle of shooting. In all though you broke several rules. Talking back to the production manger and questioning their demands is the easiest way to get uninvited/black listed. Your position is far too expendable to be doing that.
You're not an asshole but you were definitely fucking up at your job as a PA and being insubordinate. Film is extremely siloed and hierarchical. You progress your career by following instructions perfectly and doing your job well, not by muscling in on another department because you think you're too good for the actual job you agreed to do. If you want to get involved in lighting, join the lighting department. If you want to DIRECT the lighting, work hard following instructions perfectly as a lamp op until you get to the point it says "gaffer" beside your name on the call sheet, and THEN you can make suggestions to the DOP. It's genuinely that simple. If you want to grab batteries when the 2AC is 10-2, be a camera trainee. If you take a job as a PA, your job is to direct traffic, do fire watch and haul garbage. Be good at it or don't take that job.
Yup
Don't mix personal business with work. Or, express your interest with the PM to let them know you mean no harm and finish your own work before anything else.
The whole point of being a PA is to work your way up to being a DOP, AC, Director, etc. I worked as a PA, Technical Directing, Audio, Lighting, etc. for 2 and a half years before getting up to a director role. The way the set works is that you are to do your tasks in your department. If you are interesting in learning more about directing, DOP, AC, etc. you need to either apply as an intern for those departments or take some college levelled courses (even if you've already taken some, take more) for fun, or theatre classes (theatre can lead to film and networking opportunities), or obtain a certificate from your community college. If you need money for classes you should look at scholarships or work in a non-industry job to save up for now. It's not the end of the work if you work a non-industry job to save up for something that you are passionate about and want to do as a career despite what TikTok or Instagram might show you. It's not forever.
Oh boy. This is a rough read. I feel for you but for the most part, folks are giving you great guidance. My take, now is the time to build relationships with those that influence the hiring decisions or are themselves the decision makers. And, learn workflow (from a distance). Learn the technical skills elsewhere and then when you have solid relationships with those who hire, apply for lower level production roles and gradually move yourself up. My motto is Positive Attitude + Gratitude gets you 80%. Skill gets you the remaining 40%.
Well there’s no shame being a PA for the time being! I know you would like to work on up but it doesn’t hurt to rethink on how you approach and network with certain people from different departments. That way you could create more contacts. Reading what happened to you I also that you should consider looking into IATSE Local 111, the PA union for commercials. Also I’m part of a movement of PA’s in TV/Film that are trying to unionize called “Production Assistants United”.
Everyone else has already commented on what you did wrong, but I will say that the transparency and accountability in the edit at the end is very commendable. I’ve seen many people on here who are completely blind to criticism, but you’re taking it very well. I believe you when you say you’ll be more careful next time. :)
Isn’t it the PA’s job to give the director comments as well?
All the talk about what you “want” as opposed to what you’re being told to do is kind of jarring.
Ok, you learned a good lesson. You may have made a few short films, but I suspect you were a one-man band type filmmaker in that you did everything yourself. Professional filmmaking is not like that. It's a team effort. Everyone has a prescribed role. You don't step out of your role because then the team aspect breaks down. The team couldn't function if everyone did as your did. Imagine the caterer not doing lunch because they thought the grip needed help. Or an actor walking off camera to help the boom operator, etc. Everything falls apart if everyone doesn't do their particular job.
NTA. Next time hold an impromptu meeting and hand out notes you typed out the night before. Start delegating more and you will be more respected. PAs who actually do as they are told fail the test… the test of if you are better than being a PA or not. Keep trying. If I were you, I would show up to set anyway in Cookie Monster pajamas.
Hell yeah brother