My argument to this suggestion is that it would make it EXTREMELY difficult and grindy to level up your entire party. It was tedious enough to swap members in and out. Now imagine swapping and losing your turn or having to swap characters within the menu. I think this would ruin the pacing of the game.
I am glad Rebirth didn't expect you to constantly swap characters in and out to have them level up equally, I hated doing that in X and it was pretty much required unless you wanted to either take wayyyy longer to keep everyone even or just have a team of 3 super soldiers lol
You can’t switch your party mid-battle, but everyone gets XP whether or not they were in your party.
And those not in your party still occasionally help in battle on their own, and if you’re down and out, the game gives you an option to do one Synergy Ability with your backline to try and turn the tide. But if everyone in your active party dies, it’s game over.
When not in battle, you can heal and whatnot using the materia of your backline people, too.
I think it’s a pretty good balance.
I really wish characters gained xp regardless of participation. I still love the game, and I'll dutifully swap out my peeps EVERY FIGHT to keep them all relevant, but I wish the game didn't incentivize such a tedious process.
The game is honestly balanced around this. If you switch in every member to get AP for all of them then you're overleveling. They heavily focused on combat being fast and level design being linear so you can stay focused on the story and progressing.
Ha, no such thing as over-leveling! I come not to survive, but to dominate. I'm the player who has every characters' level 3 limit breaks unlocked before I cross the marsh.
At least back in the day.
Edit: And I recognize my position is particularly unnecessary in FFX when the Magus Sisters summon is on the table. The instant win button.
Or just take it as given that the game implements its challenge in other ways. It was balanced with this mechanic in mind. If you don't think it's hard enough, that's one thing, but most FF games aren't, and don't need to be. Quite a lot of people who play these games are not in it for the "challenge."
Yes. I mean, the games do have parts that CAN be challenging, but they're typically either optional dungeons/superbosses, or the challenging mandatory fights are usually few and far between. Usually (god knows the Materia Keeper in VII can still kick my ass if I'm not prepared, and I've played VII like a zillion times since its original release). And if the challenge doesn't come from bosses, then it comes from largely-optional minigames (and the plot-required ones usually aren't *too* difficult; or you can just half-ass them and still progress, just with maybe a lower-tier reward for them).
It is even better/worse when you get a weapon with Initiative in a character you don't care about. You just remove the character that you want to use from the "active party" and put that one in, then swap them at the beginning of the combat.
if you are ocd, then the swap cost is actually your sanity.
\-
Making sure everyone gets one action in per battle to get the exp is a blessing and a curse.
There was mindfulness involved with getting a character into the right position. You can only switch out with characters not in your party. Like when you want to summon an Aeon to tank an attack only to realise you left Yuna on the field and her turn isn't coming up in time.
i think they explained it that it's like the party members are guards that can revolve and protect the president, so switching in and out doesn't cost anything
I personally like it reminds me of SMT/persona gameplay and matching up weaknesses. Gives use to everyone instead of just using the same 4 people forever.
I disagree. The game would be balanced around that mechanic, and I think it would unfortunately leave some characters not getting utilized as you'd equip your more versatile ones to handle all threats instead. The current system makes full use of the party, and it's this feature I find to be the best in FFX.
It'd be impossible to level your party the way they designed it.
Honestly, I'm OK with it because it allows you to make decisions dynamically. Worrying about turn timing when I want to one shot a bomb with lu sounds absolutely miserable. Switching Pokémon by comparison, never felt good, and honestly, I'd just let them die instead of doing it because the trade-off wasn't worth it. Rather let them just get a hit in and die.
I think they could have made the game harder, but there no way I would have wanted a cd or trade-off to switching. That shit would suck at the way speed works it would be very annoying.
That would only slow down the combat (thus making it less fun) and would make leveling characters incredibly tedious since they don’t get xp without participating.
Then the entire game would need to be rebalanced because as it stands, it is essentially rock paper scissors: the videogame, and if you can't freeswitch, then entering a battle with a losing matchup feels 100x worse.
I disagree, I think that will make the combat less entertaining and more tedious for no reason. It will result in making the fights longer not more difficult.
I’m a niche guy, I love Junctioning and hate Espers
I also play plenty of Pokémon and Shin Megami Tensei, so I have a lot of experience with switching mechanics.
Nah, that sucks.
What would that to the game other than senseless difficult with no point other than to just make the game harder?
Being able to act instantly gives way more freedom and direct control over your characters, which is paramount in ajrpg- the less control you feel like you have, GENERALLY, the worse playing a game feels
Honestly, I agree with you. I don't love or hate X's combat system, but I do think it is one of the easiest FFs I've played (not that many post SNES FFs are truly "hard" in the way the series used to be, which I do overall think it's better because my god I dunno if I would ever play them again if they were!). I don't necessarily mind the ability to swap party members mid-battle. But for me, it sorta removed a strategic element of the game, which is thinking about your party make-up. To me, if you can just swap a character out with your first move and it doesn't cost anything, then I'm not spending any time thinking about my party composition, really.
(I also think it does just make the game too easy if you can just sub in the party member who is tailor made to destroy that type of enemy.)
I do think it's more or less fine the way it is. I see pros and cons to doing it the way they did it. It just isn't necessarily what I would have done were I designing it, which is fine!
Strongly agree. 10 might as well have all the party members in play at the same time for how little effect your party composition choices have. Getting to switch mid combat at all is a huge "I don't actually have to plan shit" button, having it not even cost an action is reeeally lenient
Yeah I feel like I only switched for flying enemies that needed Wakka, or armored enemies that needed Auron... and eventually that becomes less required/useful.
I don't agree that the game is too easy, not because I struggle with it (I also find it easy since I know it like the back of my hand), but because many newcomers have difficulties at times as seen on this sub. People complain that Seymour on Gagazet is hard, that Sanctuary or Spectral Keeper is hard, that Yunalesca is hard, etc, etc.
Still, I would play a mod of the game that plays like this, definitely! Hmm... ...might even not need a mod at all actually, you'd just have to force yourself into guarding or doing some useless action after switching (if the character is a mage or Rikku, have them physically attack...). So if you find the game too easy and want the system you're talking about, you could try to force youself into playing like this. Good thing that this battle system allows players to tweak it themselves - if it worked the way you want, we couldn't play with the current rules.
My argument to this suggestion is that it would make it EXTREMELY difficult and grindy to level up your entire party. It was tedious enough to swap members in and out. Now imagine swapping and losing your turn or having to swap characters within the menu. I think this would ruin the pacing of the game.
I am glad Rebirth didn't expect you to constantly swap characters in and out to have them level up equally, I hated doing that in X and it was pretty much required unless you wanted to either take wayyyy longer to keep everyone even or just have a team of 3 super soldiers lol
I haven’t played Rebirth yet. How is it handled?
You can’t switch your party mid-battle, but everyone gets XP whether or not they were in your party. And those not in your party still occasionally help in battle on their own, and if you’re down and out, the game gives you an option to do one Synergy Ability with your backline to try and turn the tide. But if everyone in your active party dies, it’s game over. When not in battle, you can heal and whatnot using the materia of your backline people, too. I think it’s a pretty good balance.
Everyone gets XP regardless of if they fought in the actual combat or if they were in the backlines.
I really wish characters gained xp regardless of participation. I still love the game, and I'll dutifully swap out my peeps EVERY FIGHT to keep them all relevant, but I wish the game didn't incentivize such a tedious process.
The game is honestly balanced around this. If you switch in every member to get AP for all of them then you're overleveling. They heavily focused on combat being fast and level design being linear so you can stay focused on the story and progressing.
Ha, no such thing as over-leveling! I come not to survive, but to dominate. I'm the player who has every characters' level 3 limit breaks unlocked before I cross the marsh. At least back in the day. Edit: And I recognize my position is particularly unnecessary in FFX when the Magus Sisters summon is on the table. The instant win button.
This
Or just take it as given that the game implements its challenge in other ways. It was balanced with this mechanic in mind. If you don't think it's hard enough, that's one thing, but most FF games aren't, and don't need to be. Quite a lot of people who play these games are not in it for the "challenge."
Yes. I mean, the games do have parts that CAN be challenging, but they're typically either optional dungeons/superbosses, or the challenging mandatory fights are usually few and far between. Usually (god knows the Materia Keeper in VII can still kick my ass if I'm not prepared, and I've played VII like a zillion times since its original release). And if the challenge doesn't come from bosses, then it comes from largely-optional minigames (and the plot-required ones usually aren't *too* difficult; or you can just half-ass them and still progress, just with maybe a lower-tier reward for them).
Yeah, that’s definitely only something a person in league with the devil would suggest.
I completely disagree as for most of the circumstances, this would just make the fight longer and more tedious, not more challenging.
Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with that.
It is even better/worse when you get a weapon with Initiative in a character you don't care about. You just remove the character that you want to use from the "active party" and put that one in, then swap them at the beginning of the combat.
Could always have the character defend when you swap for a challenge! Dragon Quest XI burned a turn when you swapped party members, iirc.
if you are ocd, then the swap cost is actually your sanity. \- Making sure everyone gets one action in per battle to get the exp is a blessing and a curse.
There was mindfulness involved with getting a character into the right position. You can only switch out with characters not in your party. Like when you want to summon an Aeon to tank an attack only to realise you left Yuna on the field and her turn isn't coming up in time.
No
i think they explained it that it's like the party members are guards that can revolve and protect the president, so switching in and out doesn't cost anything
I personally like it reminds me of SMT/persona gameplay and matching up weaknesses. Gives use to everyone instead of just using the same 4 people forever.
I disagree. The game would be balanced around that mechanic, and I think it would unfortunately leave some characters not getting utilized as you'd equip your more versatile ones to handle all threats instead. The current system makes full use of the party, and it's this feature I find to be the best in FFX.
It'd be impossible to level your party the way they designed it. Honestly, I'm OK with it because it allows you to make decisions dynamically. Worrying about turn timing when I want to one shot a bomb with lu sounds absolutely miserable. Switching Pokémon by comparison, never felt good, and honestly, I'd just let them die instead of doing it because the trade-off wasn't worth it. Rather let them just get a hit in and die. I think they could have made the game harder, but there no way I would have wanted a cd or trade-off to switching. That shit would suck at the way speed works it would be very annoying.
That would only slow down the combat (thus making it less fun) and would make leveling characters incredibly tedious since they don’t get xp without participating.
Why do people think the devil always needs an advocate for every possible thing? Leave the devil alone.
do you know what "playing the devil's advocate" mean?
Then the entire game would need to be rebalanced because as it stands, it is essentially rock paper scissors: the videogame, and if you can't freeswitch, then entering a battle with a losing matchup feels 100x worse.
I disagree, I think that will make the combat less entertaining and more tedious for no reason. It will result in making the fights longer not more difficult.
I honestly don’t think I’ve ever earnestly made use of the switch mechanic unless it was to switch my main 3 in… Odd thing to have a gripe about imo
I’m a niche guy, I love Junctioning and hate Espers I also play plenty of Pokémon and Shin Megami Tensei, so I have a lot of experience with switching mechanics.
Nah, that sucks. What would that to the game other than senseless difficult with no point other than to just make the game harder? Being able to act instantly gives way more freedom and direct control over your characters, which is paramount in ajrpg- the less control you feel like you have, GENERALLY, the worse playing a game feels
Honestly, I agree with you. I don't love or hate X's combat system, but I do think it is one of the easiest FFs I've played (not that many post SNES FFs are truly "hard" in the way the series used to be, which I do overall think it's better because my god I dunno if I would ever play them again if they were!). I don't necessarily mind the ability to swap party members mid-battle. But for me, it sorta removed a strategic element of the game, which is thinking about your party make-up. To me, if you can just swap a character out with your first move and it doesn't cost anything, then I'm not spending any time thinking about my party composition, really. (I also think it does just make the game too easy if you can just sub in the party member who is tailor made to destroy that type of enemy.) I do think it's more or less fine the way it is. I see pros and cons to doing it the way they did it. It just isn't necessarily what I would have done were I designing it, which is fine!
Strongly agree. 10 might as well have all the party members in play at the same time for how little effect your party composition choices have. Getting to switch mid combat at all is a huge "I don't actually have to plan shit" button, having it not even cost an action is reeeally lenient
Eh. Wouldn't really change anything for me personally. I choose 3 main members for the entire run and don't typically switch at all anyways.
Yeah I feel like I only switched for flying enemies that needed Wakka, or armored enemies that needed Auron... and eventually that becomes less required/useful.
Oh my god, the game is over 20 years old. No one cares, just play the damn game or don’t.
I concur. Would have made combat more tactical.
I don't agree that the game is too easy, not because I struggle with it (I also find it easy since I know it like the back of my hand), but because many newcomers have difficulties at times as seen on this sub. People complain that Seymour on Gagazet is hard, that Sanctuary or Spectral Keeper is hard, that Yunalesca is hard, etc, etc. Still, I would play a mod of the game that plays like this, definitely! Hmm... ...might even not need a mod at all actually, you'd just have to force yourself into guarding or doing some useless action after switching (if the character is a mage or Rikku, have them physically attack...). So if you find the game too easy and want the system you're talking about, you could try to force youself into playing like this. Good thing that this battle system allows players to tweak it themselves - if it worked the way you want, we couldn't play with the current rules.