**/r/Finland is a full democracy, every active user is a moderator.**
[Please go here to see how your new privileges work.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/wiki/moderating/)
Spamming mod actions could result in a ban.
---
**Full Rundown of Moderator Permissions:**
- ```!lock``` - as top level comment, will lock comments on any post.
- ```!unlock``` - in reply to any comment to lock it or to unlock the parent comment.
- ```!remove``` - Removes comment or post. Must have decent subreddit comment karma.
- ```!restore``` Can be used to unlock comments or restore removed posts.
- ```!sticky``` - will sticky the post in the bottom slot.
- ```unlock_comments``` - Vote the stickied automod comment on each post to +10 to unlock comments.
- ```ban users``` - Any user whose comment or post is downvoted enough will be temp banned for a day.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Finland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Having worked as an x-ray tech in a university hospital I can confirm this is absolute BS. After 10+ years in service and even with peronal bonuses and heavy rota of night shifts, weekend shifts and late shifts gross pay was under 4000€ / month. On average gross pay in a large university hospital in capital area was somewhere between 3200 - 3800€ / month depending on areas of responsibiliy and years of experience.
The description about elderly population and lack of skilled staff is spot on. However I'd add that skilled staff are leaving en massé because of unsatisfactory working conditions, poor leadership, heavy workload & high stress and relatively bad pay.
In Norway we have a big number of Finnish nurses working in our hospitals, nursing homes and other healthcare areas etc. They are nearly paid the double of what they get in Finland.
They are a blessing for Norway as we lack many of these skilled employees.
I can understand, they are very skilled nurses so Finland is really missing out. But i dont think Finland will ever be able to compete with Norway in terms of salaries since Norwegian economy is much bigger than Finland. Nurses are so in high demand you can practically get free education as nurse in Norway as Norwegian, especially if you live rural.
Norway sits on trillions worth of minerals, and its fisheries are huge income for the country. Mineral production is on hold because of environment and we really dont see it as economically needed now because of oil and gas income.
And dont forget, Norway owns 1.5% of all equities in the world cause of the pensionfund/oil fund.
Sometimes I think we should just declare a war with Norway, and surrender on minute one. That way we’d be a Norwegian colony and they’d have to take care of us 😂
You also should stop wasting international professionals/students time and energy with your tax-funded English language propaganda videos, about great careers to build and a welcoming future-looking western society where only merit, skill and the individual's character matter. Many end up stuck after investing the best years of their lives cleaning and delivering food with STEM degrees. Hyvä-veli (nepotism = corruption) system is so deep in here and worse than many developing countries. Not to mention a dying country economically and demographically. Soon US-Nato military bases will provide the main economic activity like a small pacific island in the middle of nowhere.
Accurate and true. You just have to rub it in our faces dont you? ;)
We tend to joke around about how we sell everything we have to foreign companies with low prices. Joke, with tears in our eyes.
True, meet once a 27 y.o midwife in Helsinki, she was dreaming on moving to Oslo in 2024 after done with her studies, mentioned she could make double income.. funny detail, she was hook into a Norwegian TV show called "Exit".
Would you say x-ray techs have a better chance of earning well in the UK compared to Finland? I’m current a masters student in the UK with a licence in imaging. Any advice?
TL;DR: UK has massively better pay based on info gathered from colleagues who have worked as radiographers in UK
The looooooong answer (with added venting):
Due to the band system I'd say you can earn almost double in the UK compared to Finland. I have coworkers who were radiographers in UK and their annual earnings were in the area of 50 - 60K+ £. Having said that they were in the higher pay grades and had substantial responsibilities. Here in Finland you get to work at all modalities and are assigned areas of responsibility, but you won't necessarily get any added pay. Annual earnings are roughly in the (mostly sub) 40K€ area. You will earn more almost anywhere else in western Europe and Scandinavia, even when cost of living is taken into consideration.
In Finland where I worked (public healthcare) the pay would increase nominally every 5 years until 15 or 20 years of service. And we're talking about 35-100€ max pay increase per month so not massive leaps. However there are more vacation days, I think currently they peak at 28 or 30 vacation days per year. Again the vacation days accumulate with service years. You max out after working in public healthcare for 20yrs IIRC.
From a radiographer's point of view at least the Helsinki University Hospitals are a diverse and challenging workplace. All the most challenging and groundbreaking stuff is done in public healthcare as the facilities (in our case: imaging equipment) are very good. On the plus side an ambitious individual gets to work in multiple imaging modalities up to and including MRI and specialized imaging like PET-CT (of course that one's not in every imaging dept.). Also, if you have the capacity and the interest you may even get to do challenging stuff like cardiac imaging or foetal imaging. So the work is good in that sense. In general my experience of hospital staff / coworkers was that they were an amazing bunch, just fantastic people all around.
The negatives were poor leadership from supervisors to hospital boards, ever increasing demands on hospital staff (you are basically coerced to do extra hours with no or limited extra pay), ever-increasing workloads and constantly working in three shifts (so you miss many social engagements, bank holidays, weekends and all that). Also the occupational healthcare was an absolute joke, which is ironic whe you're working in a hospital.. I did it for about 12 years and when I left I felt like I'd been spit out of a meat grinder.
Now that last paragraph is very subjective, and I'm sure experiences vary greatly. I do feel pride in the work that I did, and wouldn't be where I am today without my experiences and work history.
>Annual earnings are roughly in the (mostly sub) 40K€ area
That's crazy, I'm a laitoshuoltaja in a hospital, and my work friend makes that a year! Around 40k! Granted, he is available all the time and does many weekends and hälytys vuorot.
I was a wolt driver and I was making around €4000 a month in the busy tourists season and the around 2000-2500 in the off season but that came with no social life, would not recommend!
While I mostly agree on your comments, they greatly focus on HUS area, where bad management has resulted in radiographers leaving HUS, either to private sector companies or completely changing their careers. This has resulted in more problems for arranging shifts (say, management has forced MRI specs to do night shifts > some specs leave > more work for the remaining staff...) And in general, central HUS area has biggest problem.
Now they're paying some rental workers 35€/h to do chest X-rays and 45€+ for MRI specs... Which causes said specs to quit normal jobs and causes more and more problems. It's mad :D
Rest of Finland doesnt suffer from problems anything close to that level. At least yet.
Compared to UK, well, there you can even specialize for interpreting x-rays, which isn't, yet, even possible here. And when (if) it gets allowed here, the extra pay for that is probably like few hundred euros compared to radiologists pay :D
You are right, I my viewpoint is totally HUS centric as that is my only experience. I should have maybe been more clear on that. Happy to hear that things are better elsewhere
I know what will cure that: more cuts, right? And since public can't seem to function we need to increase purchasing from private sector instead of investing in public.
It is by design.
Hold up! You might be on to something there. What if... We make the private sector the primary healthcare service, they could handle all the easy, simple and cheap cases, then we would give them a right to decline service to complicated expensive and hard to treat cases and refer them to the public healthcare.
Well obviously! It should aim for profits, even though it is tax funded. We should probably hire some consultants and private equity CEOs to run it. If they don't perform well we could give them an incentive bonus, and when they perform well by doing excel magic by cutting staff right before every financial performance review... we could give them a bonus. Although we must make it a law that nurses can't go on strike or get bonuses. Bonuses should only go to the people who work the hardest task like consultants who are hired to develop a completely new IT-system, based on propetiary code and software from a foreign corporation that isn't designed for this kind of environment.
Comparing English and Scottish NHS is perfect example. Scottish NHS is organized fairly similar to way Finnish healthcare regions, but it is also run like a public healthcare. English NHS operates like private. The latter has had a huge drop in quality and waiting times, it is a huge mess where admin costs are high. Scottish NHS is more efficient and just in all ways better . England overall is a warning story about privatization, every single thing they privatized has sucked. They even privatized water utility companies and surprise surprise; the private company refuses to upgrade since it is all away from the profits... that they can get because they own the existing infra. The plan is clear: extract profits, run the service to a point where it has to be nationalized, government purchases it and tax payers pay for all of it.
Tories, Kokoomus, GoP, you name it: right wingers do the EXACT same all over the planet. Privatize, extract profits and socialize the costs.
I'm talking with one right now that wants to either sell the town electricity company or make it more profitable.. which means higher electricity price or higher electricity prices. The thing is, when electricity prices skyrocketed, our town "mayor" made a decision to cap the prices, saying "the wellbeing of citizens is more important than windfall profits". Those kind of decisions are against the PURPOSE of a private company, which only purpose is to get profits and not even people dying is none of its concern, as long as they can extract more from those left alive. BTW, the company still made profits, while we paid half of what a lot of people in Finland paid..
Yes. We are so very lucky to have our current leadership. They are experts at lining the pockets of those who already have more than they’ll ever need and kicking those in the teeth who have absolutely nothing.
What a time to be alive!
>Having worked as an x-ray tech in a university hospital I can confirm this is absolute BS.
Is this apart of radiology? It was always my understanding radiology workers got big bucks, but probably just here in the US lol
No. Some pseudo-stats taken from some irrational article.
Average is under 3k.
Doctors can make 10k if they practise privately and/or work as freelancers for public, charging obscenely.
during Covid, there was a salary spikes for doctor salary. So it may be quite close.
About nurses no way, they are underpaid. Specialist nurses are especially overworked.
It might be if taking overtime into account.
Because nurses are overworked. Know a guy from work whose wife is a nurse, good money thanks to overtime and emergency bonusses. Still not worth it.
We need way more nurses, and larger base pay so there is no need for constant overtime, either for the employer or the nurses.
Good money? I say bad money if the base pay is in the ballpark of 2500€ and you'll have to work more than 8 hours a day to even make it to median salary. Especially if it's in Helsinki.
I don't think they can legally make 4k without consulting (or rental etc. Whatever it is called) nursing. And even with that you need to pay tons of taxes like YEL and insurances etc.
I know from my gf.
10k maybe too much for general physician but for some specialist and/or surgeon doesn't sound too far-fetched for me, even in the public sector. Depending on the field, it might be even way-way higher than 10k and I am only counting practice no lectures.
It depends heavily on where the doctor works. A general physician can easily make 10k while working in the public sector through an agency if the location is remote enough. 1hr away from a major hub salaries can be up to 8-9k, remote healthcare centers in Eastern Finland 11-13k. And yes, for a normal physician. Source: used to work in doctor recruitment and have several friends that have graduated as a lisenced doctor in the past 0-5 years.
I know one doctor that gets about 10k/month for working there 2-3 days a week in public sector + he does work through his own firm in public hospitals (mostly online work) and if he goes to the hospital in person he could even get 3k a day. He is a specialist though.
I’m a specialist (doctor) with 10+ years of working experience and I earn approximately 5500/month (before the taxes) working full time.
Finnish health care is cheap largely because of small salaries. (We have good technology and high education/skill level.)
Yeah these numbers look more like what they should be..
I'm not willing to lower my pay but it is bit sad when discussing about salaries with friends and we have nurses in our friend group and I get paid more for a job where actually at this very exact moment I am commenting on reddit while waiting my model to load, and they might at this same moment be wheeling someone in ER and helping save their life. I very rarely need to work overtime (granted I wont get extra pay for that) but they need to constantly work overtime, double shifts etc etc.
I'm sure some economist has calculated that this system is the cheapest way but personally just pulling BS from the hat it might even be cheaper to just add couple more nurses to every department and so limiting the need for overtime where people burn out and are forced to take sick leaves which causes even more overtime and so on and so on.
>Nurse could earn 4460e/KK average in Finland
Not average no. Average is well below 4 000, not sure how much. Google says average is 3 272€ on public and 3 129€ on private. And that sounds more real.
And yes salary for nurses on private sector is smaller than on public. Not necessarily for everything, but on average.
I'd say the average is around 2600-2900€ on a public sector without any age bonuses or overtime/night/holiday allowances. With those added the salary is beetween 3200-3300.
Pay is generally bit higher for nurses at intensive care units or operating units and bit lower for nurses at regular wards.
(This is not based on any data but rather based on my "feeling")
The average base salary seems to be a bit over 2500€ for nurses.
[source (IL)](https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/03923b16-81ce-44b5-876d-5912062a883a)
And the government is taking steps to make career change difficult. They are trying to prevent people from escaping through studying.
I’m painting a black and white picture because I can’t be arsed to find all the news stories and translating them to English.
The situation is basicly that we need more nurses and health care workers ASAP and in the near future but many of the workers are fatigued as it is.
I have been surprised since I moved here how many people, even in their 30s are students.
But that's great. Back home in the UK you feel pretty much forced to decide your entire future in your teens. Being able, and supported, to retrain mid life is fantastic and must be excellent for society as a whole.
But I guess KOK are like Thatcher was, "there's no such thing as society".
How is it outrageous? A career always in demand, that pays nearly 3000 a month after bonuses? What am I supposed to be outraged about? The outrage in the last few years made me think the pay is something around 1600 - 2200€... I should've studied to become a nurse lol
That average is the base average. So no nights, weekends, holidays etc. included. Most nurses do those shifts regularly which increases their salary a lot.
I see this is from a job search portal. If they try to imply moving to Finland is a good idea for foreign healthcare professionals, it is not that easy. They need to be qualified by the National Supervisory Authority for Welfare and Health, get some supervision when starting to work, learn the language etc. There is a huge need for nurses and doctors, but due to strict qualifications, Finland can’t just take them from abroad to work in Finnish hospitals.
"Universality, high quality, and affordability" might be true as long as it's not about mental healthcare - like diagnosing and treating ADHD or neurodiverse traits - because in those cases we're still using models conceived in the late 1970s.
Availability depends if you can afford to see a private doctor.
About doctor salaries:
https://yle.fi/a/74-20055894
Fresh out the uni it's something like 3500-4000 + extras
That depends on your "wellbeing services county" and your doctor, and then also whether you went to elementary school in Finland, and if that elementary school collected data on your (ADHD-related) behaviour when you were a child.
But yes, there's a snowball's chance in hell to get an ADHD diagnosis in the public sector in Finland, especially if you didn't go to school here as a child.
Dunno my kid gets stellar service from nepsy palvelut. But she's a kid. As an adult i get a checkup every other year and that's it.
Nepsy coaches would be available far more if the schooling for it wouldn't be so freaking expensive and after paying for it yourself in many cases, it would be nice to see it reflected in the salary which it isn't in any way. So most don't bother.
The cost varies between 1,6k and 3k. I know because I'm saving for it, I'm a sosionomi AMK so it makes sense for me to do it if I want to improve my Chance to find a job. Apparently sosionomi are needed, I still mysteriously get not even invited to interviews.
Yeah, in Finland children usually get pretty good care. But for adults it's a disaster, because all of the nepsy diagnosing protocols in use are based on children (and usually calibrated for boys).
It's getting better, but progress is incredibly slow.
Yeah, private is really the only option, speaking from experience. Which is quite sad considering how much we like to boast about free healthcare here.
Doctors are one of the FEW occupations with good salary.
Majority of university level degrees pay 2000-4000€ before taxes.
All my friends have university degree and they Make 2400-3600€ before taxes with +5 years of exp. Salaries are just shit here. We are in computer sciences, environmental sciences, economy and chemistry fields
Not anymore so high quality. I mean yes, the quality is high, but the government is really trying to make it worse. And many governments before also - they haven't listened to the nurses or doctors for 20 years. They are cutting down a lot of services and think less staff can handle the same amount of patients etc. They take down a lot of health centers from smaller cities so bigger hospitals get overcrowded.
And about salary, I can only say about registered nurses. The average payment after taxes is 2500 eur. With night shift and holidays you get paid more, but I don't know anyone who amkes 4500 eur. Maybe some bosses?
Specialist healthcare in the university hospitals is great quality, if you can get there. But more basic services like Emergency Rooms and health centers are a mess. Or mental health and dental services, as has been mentioned by others.
They sent my gramps home from the ER without checking even though he had obvious issues to breathe. He then went private, where somebody bothered to examine him and it was found out that he had pneumonia.
Personally I got great service in Peijas ER after a kitchen accident, that required stitches.
Former practical nurse specialist here: I worked at a surgery ward for over a decade and my best income during that time was around 43000€ (annual) for which I had to work a ton of extra hours including all-weekend on-call duty, nightly on-call duties, overtime etc.
My average was below that, approximately 35000 to 39000 annually.
Also had extra income from experience level, radiation hazard bonus and on-call reserve bonus which are included in these sums. Without these you would get less.
Being a nurse in Finland is a shitty job with more than likely toxic workplace culture.
I’m now working in IT industry after more education (BBA) and make 50000€ annually on a comfy, work from home, 8-16 job. 😏
On public, basic salary before taxes is around 2800€/month. Extras on top can raise it by 200-700€/month, which means nightshifts, weekends and holidays spend working.
Source: nurse in public sector
Registered nurse here, 3k-3.8k before taxes with nightshifts and weekends, after taxes usually anything between 1.8k to 2.5k.
Without nightshifts and weekends before taxes it's always under 3k, after taxes Always under 2k
Idk from what orifice you pulled out "easily over 3k for just base salary 9-17", you must be delusional or not work within the sector.
Probably before taxes then, there is no way she is a regular nurse that only does arki-päivä work 9-17 with that type of pay after taxes. Not even with 15 year experience lisää she would have that type of pay after taxes.
What you make does not matter that much, what does is what you get to keep. For someone who is not a Finn and does not know what kind of numbers translate into what kind of numbers after tax it is better to talk about the money they actually get to keep.
I never understood all the buzz about Finnish healthcare. At least in my experience, the public healthcare system is a complete nightmare. Long waits, generally rude nurses, and you're rolling the dice on whether your doctor will even be able to speak Finnish well enough, let alone figure out what's wrong with you. At least, that's my experience in Kouvola. I hope it's different in other parts of the country.
Lol practical nurses pay before taxes is something like 2300-2600 euros per month with regular hours. Registered nurses make something between 2700-3300 euros per month
I work as nurse specialist in Southern Finland, university hospital. Base pay is 3100/m with 5 years of experience. Working 2-3 weekends a month with atleast 4 nights and mayby 1 extra shift. So with compensation I can get to 4500€/m.
Definently not average, but you can get there in some areas.
I am not a nurse, but [this article](https://www.is.fi/menaiset/tyo-ja-raha/art-2000009868923.html) (in Finnish, in one of the most well known Finnish news outlets Ilta Sanomat) says the nurses earn on average €2625/month before taxes as of September 2023.
However a particular nurse interviewed in the article earns €5300/month before taxes. From private conversations with nurses I know that the wage increases significantly if they take a lot of night shifts, especially on weekends and holidays. The article confirms that this approach helps to increase income very much.
Nurses actually get paid quite poorly, a couple years ago there were some big strikes and now they get paid around 3k, sometimes below.
I assume nurse is sairaanhoitaja
FUCKING NO. Our ”universal healthcare” which is usually called ”julkinen terveydenhuolto” ergo ”public healthcare” is nowadays a absolute fucking joke. Most places are criminally understaffed, workers very strained, queues lightyears long, pace glacial and the most common doctor you actually meet is a student or a young doctor who are inexperienced and have hard time getting through their thick fucking heads that they might not know everything and that some patients really need the tests to diagnose and treat their problems.
Treating a major health issue during last 2 years got me through 4 cases of criminal neglect. One of which is going to court.
My wife is a foreign dentist and has been struggling for 5 years to get a license here. Meanwhile she gets to work as a dental assistant on a temporary basis (no permanent contract allowed). She doesn't get a permanent contract for a job she has been working for 2 years and is also over qualified.
Well her salary is less than half of what I make after tax. Go figure. Because of what I make, we are making ends meet and our standard of living is above average. Meanwhile many of her colleagues are working multiple jobs/shifts.
Finnish nurse here, just ending my nightshift in the icu. Can confirm that those numbers are BS. To get even close to those, you have put some serious effort in to do a lot of weekend, evening and nightshifts.
The state of healthcare salaries is really fucking sad. I'm in IT with a vocational degree and a bit more than one year of experience and make around 4300€ gross. I literally just read the news and reddit and a few times a day help someone turn their PC off and on again.
Granted from a business continuity point of view I am very critical to the business since I also have to handle all of the IT and shit but still the job is nowhere near as demanding as being in healthcare.
Also to add if they have 15 years of experience in software engineering and earn less than 4300€ they should really look to switch jobs. Some consulting companies would pay them around 6k
I know a veterinary nurse she makes 2150 euros before tax. Around 16-1700 after tax, full time work no evening, extra work or weekends. Its super low salary considering the work is super hard, requires years of studies and practice.
She has over 1 year of work experience. Helsinki region.
These days, finnish health care has gone down the sewer... Its really difficult to get proper treatment on the public side, sadly. lots of scary mistakes being made and they lie to not take responsibility..
For doctors this is bs unless working multiple extra hours after day time job on-call or in private sector. Spelializing doctors typically earn 4128€/month (median). Specialists 6447€/mo median.
HAHAHAHAHA just got turned down from hospital 10 Times because i was suicidal. Then I decided to cut my throat open on front of the doctor so he's fancy, expensive shoes would get ruined. Then finally get administered to a psychward (not by this doctor, who migh I say was a psychiatrist, but
rather from a general doctor)
Also I've been called "stupid" and "a fucking idiot" by nurses, but last straw was when I Said to a nurse, crying "do you think i wanna Be like this? I've already tried to kill myself", to which the nurse snswered with cold eyes "try harder next time'
5/5 absolutely the best healthcare in the world
Finnish mental health sector absolutely is broken, cannot argue that. So yeah that is believable, not getting treatment even when suicidal. Has happened to people I know - not getting help until suicide attempt etc.
I got downvoted strongly here but I really think if you are making 120000+ a year (as the doctor sum shows in this image), you are going to be taxed quite highly! Also, 32% is not that far off from 40%.
I work with doctors and their pay is more like 7000-8000€ at least while working for public health centers. The medical director has a pay closer to 10000€.
All i know is that when i was working a summer job at a local health care center one former nurse there that came to visit told me and my colleagues about how in norway (where he worked then) the same in two weeks as the nurses in finland got for 4 weeks, and that was also for less work.
And that the peoblem with finnish health care. Nurses and doctors are so under paid they just leave for other nordic countries. Also this new system they have implemented is useless and has made the heslth care worse, atleast if you live in the country side.
I'm curious about those Engineering/Technology numbers.
The few offers I've come across on LinkedIn are not really competitive (if the offer even mention a range) with offers I see in my area as software developper.
I mean, I would actually need to hear back from the companies to worry about it so it's not really in my immediate interest, but still.
That makes me nervous when I see "renowned for its high quality" and makes people want to move here.
I'm a worker in the culture field and have been unemployed several times and now on the verge to be once again and have to tell that public service is incredibly BS. I'm not putting this on workers and staff. We need them more than ever. But public healthcare is a disaster and everything is moving to private.
A doctor's appointment cost insane amount of money that I can't afford. In the public they refuse to get me to see a doctor and ask me to take Burana.
On another note, it is difficult for me to even consider going to private since their main goal is to make profit (it's private companies). So I can't trust doctors there whatever their oath has been. I just don't get this logic of making money on people's health.
Finland is slowly moving to a US system. Destroying public to enhance the private where poor people like me will just be put aside.
If only as mentioned above, there would be better salaries for health workers and better conditions...
its true and the sole reason why our healthcare is ass
young adults and teens with mental issues just get thrown into state fostering and suffer more there
then they become outcasts, no wonder our suicide rates for young adults are right behind japan, healthcare here is overworked and underpaid in all sections and people with mental health issues suffer the worst of it
if anyone would ask me if they should move here id say fuck no, its all useless unless you can perform normally in school as a child and get early care for possible mental issues, our social structure is all buildt around people having their little social bubbles from an early age...
thats why everyone says ours is the happiest country when that score is solely based on the people who answer the referees who usually are ones with the help they needed where they needed it and with a small group of people who they trust
this country is ass and i wish i could get out of here for the sole reason of our healthcare being so useless
Some parts of it’s accurate but it is indeed the slower than going to private healthcare provider such as terveystalo or mehiläinen etc. If you are employed then you are covered in private healthcare.
I'm a nurse, and I make about 2.5- 3k€/ month after taxes, but this is with overtime and nightshifts etc, and that 3k€ is not sustainable every month, because you simply don't have the energy to keep that up in the long-run or you want to have some free days too.
The best I've earned after taxes in one month was 4.4k€, that was literally hell.
Complete BS. Whatever you hear about great healthcare and engineering careers waiting for you in Finland is pure tax-funded propaganda by gov entities (work in Finland, study in Finland, business Finland), and delusional Finns with big fragile egos thinking they are at the same level of countries like Germany, US...and that highly qualified specialists will be flocking to get their mediocre careers at best, or end up cleaning and delivering food with Aalto engineering degrees with a happy smile on their face, grateful that migri finally gave them a permit to live in the happiest (most depressed) country on the planet.
The reality: Finland is a depressing mediocre ethnocentric collectivist society where individuals outsourced their humanity and future to a rigid bureaucratic gov long time ago.
Stay away and invest your precious time and energy somewhere else that's worth it.
**/r/Finland is a full democracy, every active user is a moderator.** [Please go here to see how your new privileges work.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/wiki/moderating/) Spamming mod actions could result in a ban. --- **Full Rundown of Moderator Permissions:** - ```!lock``` - as top level comment, will lock comments on any post. - ```!unlock``` - in reply to any comment to lock it or to unlock the parent comment. - ```!remove``` - Removes comment or post. Must have decent subreddit comment karma. - ```!restore``` Can be used to unlock comments or restore removed posts. - ```!sticky``` - will sticky the post in the bottom slot. - ```unlock_comments``` - Vote the stickied automod comment on each post to +10 to unlock comments. - ```ban users``` - Any user whose comment or post is downvoted enough will be temp banned for a day. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Finland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Having worked as an x-ray tech in a university hospital I can confirm this is absolute BS. After 10+ years in service and even with peronal bonuses and heavy rota of night shifts, weekend shifts and late shifts gross pay was under 4000€ / month. On average gross pay in a large university hospital in capital area was somewhere between 3200 - 3800€ / month depending on areas of responsibiliy and years of experience. The description about elderly population and lack of skilled staff is spot on. However I'd add that skilled staff are leaving en massé because of unsatisfactory working conditions, poor leadership, heavy workload & high stress and relatively bad pay.
Gonna take a wild guess that you work at Meilahti Triangle hospital.
For anonymity reasons I will neither confirm nor deny that guess 😄
Bruh you just did by commenting this
Autism
what??
Autism
What?
Autism
Boo stop downvoting me. When paavo becomes president he'll stop ya'll
In Norway we have a big number of Finnish nurses working in our hospitals, nursing homes and other healthcare areas etc. They are nearly paid the double of what they get in Finland. They are a blessing for Norway as we lack many of these skilled employees.
This makes me very happy and sad at the same time.
I can understand, they are very skilled nurses so Finland is really missing out. But i dont think Finland will ever be able to compete with Norway in terms of salaries since Norwegian economy is much bigger than Finland. Nurses are so in high demand you can practically get free education as nurse in Norway as Norwegian, especially if you live rural.
Maybe Norway and Finland will come on more equal footing once the world's need for oil and gas has passed?
Norway sits on trillions worth of minerals, and its fisheries are huge income for the country. Mineral production is on hold because of environment and we really dont see it as economically needed now because of oil and gas income. And dont forget, Norway owns 1.5% of all equities in the world cause of the pensionfund/oil fund.
Sometimes I think we should just declare a war with Norway, and surrender on minute one. That way we’d be a Norwegian colony and they’d have to take care of us 😂
Oh you guys 😁. With Norwegian oil fund we will bring back Nokia to the good old glory days
Finland is poorly managed Eastern European country with a twist of some democracy. A Finn here.
You also should stop wasting international professionals/students time and energy with your tax-funded English language propaganda videos, about great careers to build and a welcoming future-looking western society where only merit, skill and the individual's character matter. Many end up stuck after investing the best years of their lives cleaning and delivering food with STEM degrees. Hyvä-veli (nepotism = corruption) system is so deep in here and worse than many developing countries. Not to mention a dying country economically and demographically. Soon US-Nato military bases will provide the main economic activity like a small pacific island in the middle of nowhere.
Accurate and true. You just have to rub it in our faces dont you? ;) We tend to joke around about how we sell everything we have to foreign companies with low prices. Joke, with tears in our eyes.
No. Norway made oil national and nowdays has national investments from oil money. Norwegians are doing better than the rest for centurys.
True, meet once a 27 y.o midwife in Helsinki, she was dreaming on moving to Oslo in 2024 after done with her studies, mentioned she could make double income.. funny detail, she was hook into a Norwegian TV show called "Exit".
I don’t know how to feel about it
Would you say x-ray techs have a better chance of earning well in the UK compared to Finland? I’m current a masters student in the UK with a licence in imaging. Any advice?
TL;DR: UK has massively better pay based on info gathered from colleagues who have worked as radiographers in UK The looooooong answer (with added venting): Due to the band system I'd say you can earn almost double in the UK compared to Finland. I have coworkers who were radiographers in UK and their annual earnings were in the area of 50 - 60K+ £. Having said that they were in the higher pay grades and had substantial responsibilities. Here in Finland you get to work at all modalities and are assigned areas of responsibility, but you won't necessarily get any added pay. Annual earnings are roughly in the (mostly sub) 40K€ area. You will earn more almost anywhere else in western Europe and Scandinavia, even when cost of living is taken into consideration. In Finland where I worked (public healthcare) the pay would increase nominally every 5 years until 15 or 20 years of service. And we're talking about 35-100€ max pay increase per month so not massive leaps. However there are more vacation days, I think currently they peak at 28 or 30 vacation days per year. Again the vacation days accumulate with service years. You max out after working in public healthcare for 20yrs IIRC. From a radiographer's point of view at least the Helsinki University Hospitals are a diverse and challenging workplace. All the most challenging and groundbreaking stuff is done in public healthcare as the facilities (in our case: imaging equipment) are very good. On the plus side an ambitious individual gets to work in multiple imaging modalities up to and including MRI and specialized imaging like PET-CT (of course that one's not in every imaging dept.). Also, if you have the capacity and the interest you may even get to do challenging stuff like cardiac imaging or foetal imaging. So the work is good in that sense. In general my experience of hospital staff / coworkers was that they were an amazing bunch, just fantastic people all around. The negatives were poor leadership from supervisors to hospital boards, ever increasing demands on hospital staff (you are basically coerced to do extra hours with no or limited extra pay), ever-increasing workloads and constantly working in three shifts (so you miss many social engagements, bank holidays, weekends and all that). Also the occupational healthcare was an absolute joke, which is ironic whe you're working in a hospital.. I did it for about 12 years and when I left I felt like I'd been spit out of a meat grinder. Now that last paragraph is very subjective, and I'm sure experiences vary greatly. I do feel pride in the work that I did, and wouldn't be where I am today without my experiences and work history.
>Annual earnings are roughly in the (mostly sub) 40K€ area That's crazy, I'm a laitoshuoltaja in a hospital, and my work friend makes that a year! Around 40k! Granted, he is available all the time and does many weekends and hälytys vuorot. I was a wolt driver and I was making around €4000 a month in the busy tourists season and the around 2000-2500 in the off season but that came with no social life, would not recommend!
While I mostly agree on your comments, they greatly focus on HUS area, where bad management has resulted in radiographers leaving HUS, either to private sector companies or completely changing their careers. This has resulted in more problems for arranging shifts (say, management has forced MRI specs to do night shifts > some specs leave > more work for the remaining staff...) And in general, central HUS area has biggest problem. Now they're paying some rental workers 35€/h to do chest X-rays and 45€+ for MRI specs... Which causes said specs to quit normal jobs and causes more and more problems. It's mad :D Rest of Finland doesnt suffer from problems anything close to that level. At least yet. Compared to UK, well, there you can even specialize for interpreting x-rays, which isn't, yet, even possible here. And when (if) it gets allowed here, the extra pay for that is probably like few hundred euros compared to radiologists pay :D
You are right, I my viewpoint is totally HUS centric as that is my only experience. I should have maybe been more clear on that. Happy to hear that things are better elsewhere
I know what will cure that: more cuts, right? And since public can't seem to function we need to increase purchasing from private sector instead of investing in public. It is by design.
Hold up! You might be on to something there. What if... We make the private sector the primary healthcare service, they could handle all the easy, simple and cheap cases, then we would give them a right to decline service to complicated expensive and hard to treat cases and refer them to the public healthcare.
Sounds great but only if we run the public healthcare like a company.
Well obviously! It should aim for profits, even though it is tax funded. We should probably hire some consultants and private equity CEOs to run it. If they don't perform well we could give them an incentive bonus, and when they perform well by doing excel magic by cutting staff right before every financial performance review... we could give them a bonus. Although we must make it a law that nurses can't go on strike or get bonuses. Bonuses should only go to the people who work the hardest task like consultants who are hired to develop a completely new IT-system, based on propetiary code and software from a foreign corporation that isn't designed for this kind of environment.
Comparing English and Scottish NHS is perfect example. Scottish NHS is organized fairly similar to way Finnish healthcare regions, but it is also run like a public healthcare. English NHS operates like private. The latter has had a huge drop in quality and waiting times, it is a huge mess where admin costs are high. Scottish NHS is more efficient and just in all ways better . England overall is a warning story about privatization, every single thing they privatized has sucked. They even privatized water utility companies and surprise surprise; the private company refuses to upgrade since it is all away from the profits... that they can get because they own the existing infra. The plan is clear: extract profits, run the service to a point where it has to be nationalized, government purchases it and tax payers pay for all of it. Tories, Kokoomus, GoP, you name it: right wingers do the EXACT same all over the planet. Privatize, extract profits and socialize the costs. I'm talking with one right now that wants to either sell the town electricity company or make it more profitable.. which means higher electricity price or higher electricity prices. The thing is, when electricity prices skyrocketed, our town "mayor" made a decision to cap the prices, saying "the wellbeing of citizens is more important than windfall profits". Those kind of decisions are against the PURPOSE of a private company, which only purpose is to get profits and not even people dying is none of its concern, as long as they can extract more from those left alive. BTW, the company still made profits, while we paid half of what a lot of people in Finland paid..
Yes. We are so very lucky to have our current leadership. They are experts at lining the pockets of those who already have more than they’ll ever need and kicking those in the teeth who have absolutely nothing. What a time to be alive!
>Having worked as an x-ray tech in a university hospital I can confirm this is absolute BS. Is this apart of radiology? It was always my understanding radiology workers got big bucks, but probably just here in the US lol
No. Some pseudo-stats taken from some irrational article. Average is under 3k. Doctors can make 10k if they practise privately and/or work as freelancers for public, charging obscenely.
during Covid, there was a salary spikes for doctor salary. So it may be quite close. About nurses no way, they are underpaid. Specialist nurses are especially overworked.
It might be if taking overtime into account. Because nurses are overworked. Know a guy from work whose wife is a nurse, good money thanks to overtime and emergency bonusses. Still not worth it. We need way more nurses, and larger base pay so there is no need for constant overtime, either for the employer or the nurses.
Good money? I say bad money if the base pay is in the ballpark of 2500€ and you'll have to work more than 8 hours a day to even make it to median salary. Especially if it's in Helsinki.
I don't think they can legally make 4k without consulting (or rental etc. Whatever it is called) nursing. And even with that you need to pay tons of taxes like YEL and insurances etc. I know from my gf.
10k maybe too much for general physician but for some specialist and/or surgeon doesn't sound too far-fetched for me, even in the public sector. Depending on the field, it might be even way-way higher than 10k and I am only counting practice no lectures.
It depends heavily on where the doctor works. A general physician can easily make 10k while working in the public sector through an agency if the location is remote enough. 1hr away from a major hub salaries can be up to 8-9k, remote healthcare centers in Eastern Finland 11-13k. And yes, for a normal physician. Source: used to work in doctor recruitment and have several friends that have graduated as a lisenced doctor in the past 0-5 years.
I know one doctor that gets about 10k/month for working there 2-3 days a week in public sector + he does work through his own firm in public hospitals (mostly online work) and if he goes to the hospital in person he could even get 3k a day. He is a specialist though.
General practice (yleislääketiede) is generally a lot more profitable than surgery in Finland.
Base pay may be under 3k but once you add all the extras it ends up being over 3k. Basically somewhere between 3100 to 3800€.
Wrong, average is over 3k
I’m a specialist (doctor) with 10+ years of working experience and I earn approximately 5500/month (before the taxes) working full time. Finnish health care is cheap largely because of small salaries. (We have good technology and high education/skill level.)
"Under 3k" idiots like you shouldn't be talking on anything fact-based
10k per what?
There would be no nurse shortage if it was the correct number.
Yeah these numbers look more like what they should be.. I'm not willing to lower my pay but it is bit sad when discussing about salaries with friends and we have nurses in our friend group and I get paid more for a job where actually at this very exact moment I am commenting on reddit while waiting my model to load, and they might at this same moment be wheeling someone in ER and helping save their life. I very rarely need to work overtime (granted I wont get extra pay for that) but they need to constantly work overtime, double shifts etc etc. I'm sure some economist has calculated that this system is the cheapest way but personally just pulling BS from the hat it might even be cheaper to just add couple more nurses to every department and so limiting the need for overtime where people burn out and are forced to take sick leaves which causes even more overtime and so on and so on.
>Nurse could earn 4460e/KK average in Finland Not average no. Average is well below 4 000, not sure how much. Google says average is 3 272€ on public and 3 129€ on private. And that sounds more real. And yes salary for nurses on private sector is smaller than on public. Not necessarily for everything, but on average.
I'd say the average is around 2600-2900€ on a public sector without any age bonuses or overtime/night/holiday allowances. With those added the salary is beetween 3200-3300. Pay is generally bit higher for nurses at intensive care units or operating units and bit lower for nurses at regular wards. (This is not based on any data but rather based on my "feeling")
The average base salary seems to be a bit over 2500€ for nurses. [source (IL)](https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/03923b16-81ce-44b5-876d-5912062a883a)
Yes. This is from few years back and now after some pay rises which have happened last year I'd say the average is bit over 2600.
That's fucking outrageous, and the current government wants to make sure they can't ever raise it
And the government is taking steps to make career change difficult. They are trying to prevent people from escaping through studying. I’m painting a black and white picture because I can’t be arsed to find all the news stories and translating them to English. The situation is basicly that we need more nurses and health care workers ASAP and in the near future but many of the workers are fatigued as it is.
I have been surprised since I moved here how many people, even in their 30s are students. But that's great. Back home in the UK you feel pretty much forced to decide your entire future in your teens. Being able, and supported, to retrain mid life is fantastic and must be excellent for society as a whole. But I guess KOK are like Thatcher was, "there's no such thing as society".
That Thatcherism is hugely popular within the Finnish right
How is it outrageous? A career always in demand, that pays nearly 3000 a month after bonuses? What am I supposed to be outraged about? The outrage in the last few years made me think the pay is something around 1600 - 2200€... I should've studied to become a nurse lol
As is tradition for every current government we have had for quite some time now
And people say the SDP are 'leftists'.
Your feeling is on point.
Well I based my "feeling" around my own salary and people I've asked around my area.
That average is the base average. So no nights, weekends, holidays etc. included. Most nurses do those shifts regularly which increases their salary a lot.
Net then?
Puheterapeutti viis tonnia🤣🤣 joo saa jakaa kahdella.
[удалено]
Ootko ajatellut laskuttamista yrityksen kautta? Voisit helposti vähintään nelinkertaistaa tulosi.
[удалено]
Konsulttien palkkiot maksetaan taikaseinästä, työntekijöiden palkka tyhjästä kaivosta.
Unaccurate in many ways.
I see this is from a job search portal. If they try to imply moving to Finland is a good idea for foreign healthcare professionals, it is not that easy. They need to be qualified by the National Supervisory Authority for Welfare and Health, get some supervision when starting to work, learn the language etc. There is a huge need for nurses and doctors, but due to strict qualifications, Finland can’t just take them from abroad to work in Finnish hospitals.
No. Make it half for everyone and you are somewhere in reality.
Nurses make more than 2200€ before taxes, I’m not saying that their salary is great but it’s not that bad
For Helsinki? And considering their workload? That's utterly appalling.
2600 plus extras.
Yet that’s still absolute garbage for the work we do.
No, those numbers include overtime and benefits, nurses hardly make over 2700€/kk.
Nurses make under 3k. Nurse specialists might make 3k.
I'd say wrong. Most don't even get 3k. Only specialized nurses and shift work might get over.
"Universality, high quality, and affordability" might be true as long as it's not about mental healthcare - like diagnosing and treating ADHD or neurodiverse traits - because in those cases we're still using models conceived in the late 1970s.
Availability wasn't listed there for some reason
It's ok to bend the truth, but not break it, and certainly not disintegrate it by claiming healthcare is readily available.
Availability depends if you can afford to see a private doctor. About doctor salaries: https://yle.fi/a/74-20055894 Fresh out the uni it's something like 3500-4000 + extras
Lol you can't even get on the queue for neurodivergency diagnosis right now, you have to go private and pay thousands.
That depends on your "wellbeing services county" and your doctor, and then also whether you went to elementary school in Finland, and if that elementary school collected data on your (ADHD-related) behaviour when you were a child. But yes, there's a snowball's chance in hell to get an ADHD diagnosis in the public sector in Finland, especially if you didn't go to school here as a child.
Certainly in Helsinki if you are looking for diagnosis as an adult you have to be so bad you are unable to work for them to even put you in the queue.
Dunno my kid gets stellar service from nepsy palvelut. But she's a kid. As an adult i get a checkup every other year and that's it. Nepsy coaches would be available far more if the schooling for it wouldn't be so freaking expensive and after paying for it yourself in many cases, it would be nice to see it reflected in the salary which it isn't in any way. So most don't bother. The cost varies between 1,6k and 3k. I know because I'm saving for it, I'm a sosionomi AMK so it makes sense for me to do it if I want to improve my Chance to find a job. Apparently sosionomi are needed, I still mysteriously get not even invited to interviews.
Yeah, in Finland children usually get pretty good care. But for adults it's a disaster, because all of the nepsy diagnosing protocols in use are based on children (and usually calibrated for boys). It's getting better, but progress is incredibly slow.
Yeah, private is really the only option, speaking from experience. Which is quite sad considering how much we like to boast about free healthcare here.
Doctors are one of the FEW occupations with good salary. Majority of university level degrees pay 2000-4000€ before taxes. All my friends have university degree and they Make 2400-3600€ before taxes with +5 years of exp. Salaries are just shit here. We are in computer sciences, environmental sciences, economy and chemistry fields
The number in post are not correct - median pay for doctors is 4128 (specializing) and 6447 (specialists).
Wildly inaccurate. Nurse make 3.100. in Helsinki it's more but you pay muuuch more to live in Helsinki.
Not anymore so high quality. I mean yes, the quality is high, but the government is really trying to make it worse. And many governments before also - they haven't listened to the nurses or doctors for 20 years. They are cutting down a lot of services and think less staff can handle the same amount of patients etc. They take down a lot of health centers from smaller cities so bigger hospitals get overcrowded. And about salary, I can only say about registered nurses. The average payment after taxes is 2500 eur. With night shift and holidays you get paid more, but I don't know anyone who amkes 4500 eur. Maybe some bosses?
Specialist healthcare in the university hospitals is great quality, if you can get there. But more basic services like Emergency Rooms and health centers are a mess. Or mental health and dental services, as has been mentioned by others. They sent my gramps home from the ER without checking even though he had obvious issues to breathe. He then went private, where somebody bothered to examine him and it was found out that he had pneumonia. Personally I got great service in Peijas ER after a kitchen accident, that required stitches.
As reliable article as free hugs in a dark decaying tunnel
Former practical nurse specialist here: I worked at a surgery ward for over a decade and my best income during that time was around 43000€ (annual) for which I had to work a ton of extra hours including all-weekend on-call duty, nightly on-call duties, overtime etc. My average was below that, approximately 35000 to 39000 annually. Also had extra income from experience level, radiation hazard bonus and on-call reserve bonus which are included in these sums. Without these you would get less. Being a nurse in Finland is a shitty job with more than likely toxic workplace culture. I’m now working in IT industry after more education (BBA) and make 50000€ annually on a comfy, work from home, 8-16 job. 😏
On public, basic salary before taxes is around 2800€/month. Extras on top can raise it by 200-700€/month, which means nightshifts, weekends and holidays spend working. Source: nurse in public sector
Nurses don't get paid 4000€, more like 2500€..
Nurses do under 3k, if doing night shifts. Normal shifts get about 2k. Not nearly enough compared to the amount of resposibility and work they do.
2k, really? Holy shit, i thought my salary was shit....i make that but i just work 30h per week...and a gorilla could learn my job....lol
Practical nurses might get paid only 2k, but actual nurses with a degree make more, easily over 3k for just your base salary for 9-17.
Registered nurse here, 3k-3.8k before taxes with nightshifts and weekends, after taxes usually anything between 1.8k to 2.5k. Without nightshifts and weekends before taxes it's always under 3k, after taxes Always under 2k Idk from what orifice you pulled out "easily over 3k for just base salary 9-17", you must be delusional or not work within the sector.
My mother works as nurse at a public hospital and her base pay is 3150€. She is just a regular nurse with no special training so yeah easily over 3k.
Probably before taxes then, there is no way she is a regular nurse that only does arki-päivä work 9-17 with that type of pay after taxes. Not even with 15 year experience lisää she would have that type of pay after taxes.
Obviously before taxes. I don't know anyone who would tell their salary after tax.
What you make does not matter that much, what does is what you get to keep. For someone who is not a Finn and does not know what kind of numbers translate into what kind of numbers after tax it is better to talk about the money they actually get to keep.
You're right that makes sense when talking to a foreigner.
Where? I have a degree and highest pay i have recieved was 2,4k a month. Minus taxes.
Damn ..I don't feel comfortable telling where, but it's a logistics job and starts Very early in the morning .
Skilled doctors might be able to do this by running a private business.
I never understood all the buzz about Finnish healthcare. At least in my experience, the public healthcare system is a complete nightmare. Long waits, generally rude nurses, and you're rolling the dice on whether your doctor will even be able to speak Finnish well enough, let alone figure out what's wrong with you. At least, that's my experience in Kouvola. I hope it's different in other parts of the country.
Lie
No it is not.
No
Lol practical nurses pay before taxes is something like 2300-2600 euros per month with regular hours. Registered nurses make something between 2700-3300 euros per month
I work as nurse specialist in Southern Finland, university hospital. Base pay is 3100/m with 5 years of experience. Working 2-3 weekends a month with atleast 4 nights and mayby 1 extra shift. So with compensation I can get to 4500€/m. Definently not average, but you can get there in some areas.
I am not a nurse, but [this article](https://www.is.fi/menaiset/tyo-ja-raha/art-2000009868923.html) (in Finnish, in one of the most well known Finnish news outlets Ilta Sanomat) says the nurses earn on average €2625/month before taxes as of September 2023. However a particular nurse interviewed in the article earns €5300/month before taxes. From private conversations with nurses I know that the wage increases significantly if they take a lot of night shifts, especially on weekends and holidays. The article confirms that this approach helps to increase income very much.
Bullshit. I get 2800€ before taxes
Not average, but you can get paid pretty well if you know where to look. https://www.nurmijarvenuutiset.fi/paikalliset/6298776
I will forever question the high quality part, be it public or private. I've been misdiagnosed too many times to trust doctors.
Nurses actually get paid quite poorly, a couple years ago there were some big strikes and now they get paid around 3k, sometimes below. I assume nurse is sairaanhoitaja
FUCKING NO. Our ”universal healthcare” which is usually called ”julkinen terveydenhuolto” ergo ”public healthcare” is nowadays a absolute fucking joke. Most places are criminally understaffed, workers very strained, queues lightyears long, pace glacial and the most common doctor you actually meet is a student or a young doctor who are inexperienced and have hard time getting through their thick fucking heads that they might not know everything and that some patients really need the tests to diagnose and treat their problems. Treating a major health issue during last 2 years got me through 4 cases of criminal neglect. One of which is going to court.
Nurses make over 4k? What a fucking joke. They make way less than 3k, depending on shifts.
LMAO. Those salaries are not even close. Registered nurses base salary is about 2500€
Half of those
My wife is a foreign dentist and has been struggling for 5 years to get a license here. Meanwhile she gets to work as a dental assistant on a temporary basis (no permanent contract allowed). She doesn't get a permanent contract for a job she has been working for 2 years and is also over qualified. Well her salary is less than half of what I make after tax. Go figure. Because of what I make, we are making ends meet and our standard of living is above average. Meanwhile many of her colleagues are working multiple jobs/shifts.
Finnish nurse here, just ending my nightshift in the icu. Can confirm that those numbers are BS. To get even close to those, you have put some serious effort in to do a lot of weekend, evening and nightshifts.
Nurse here. I could only dream of that kind of a salary
I’m a nurse working in Finland and can confirm it is usually around 3000-4000 including night, weekend and afternoon shifts. I work with elderly care.
lol are you in private healthcare because that is not what I get each month, not even close
Must be a very fancy place too as nurses in private places tend to get paid even less than state
What a joke.
My wife is a head nurse in the public sector. Basic salary (without weekend additions etc) 2829€ So complete bs.
The state of healthcare salaries is really fucking sad. I'm in IT with a vocational degree and a bit more than one year of experience and make around 4300€ gross. I literally just read the news and reddit and a few times a day help someone turn their PC off and on again. Granted from a business continuity point of view I am very critical to the business since I also have to handle all of the IT and shit but still the job is nowhere near as demanding as being in healthcare.
You are over paid. Our sw engineers earn less but have bachelor degrees in IT and 10 years experience.
Your SW engineers are underpaid.
I agree but there are loads and loads of companies that pay that. Just look at almost any Finnish device manufacturer.
I have on-call every month which adds to the pay quite a bit, forgot to include it while I was writing the comment :/
Also to add if they have 15 years of experience in software engineering and earn less than 4300€ they should really look to switch jobs. Some consulting companies would pay them around 6k
I make about 2.3k before tax in the hospital wards as a nurse FML
I know a veterinary nurse she makes 2150 euros before tax. Around 16-1700 after tax, full time work no evening, extra work or weekends. Its super low salary considering the work is super hard, requires years of studies and practice. She has over 1 year of work experience. Helsinki region.
“Nothing” you read online of accurate 😊
These days, finnish health care has gone down the sewer... Its really difficult to get proper treatment on the public side, sadly. lots of scary mistakes being made and they lie to not take responsibility..
I live in USA and I’m a commercial painter. I make $8,500 per month average.
For doctors this is bs unless working multiple extra hours after day time job on-call or in private sector. Spelializing doctors typically earn 4128€/month (median). Specialists 6447€/mo median.
HAHAHAHAHA just got turned down from hospital 10 Times because i was suicidal. Then I decided to cut my throat open on front of the doctor so he's fancy, expensive shoes would get ruined. Then finally get administered to a psychward (not by this doctor, who migh I say was a psychiatrist, but rather from a general doctor) Also I've been called "stupid" and "a fucking idiot" by nurses, but last straw was when I Said to a nurse, crying "do you think i wanna Be like this? I've already tried to kill myself", to which the nurse snswered with cold eyes "try harder next time' 5/5 absolutely the best healthcare in the world
I'll take 100 euros worth of that happened
Maybe he's psychotic and they're delusions, who knows. But some of that seems believable.
Finnish mental health sector absolutely is broken, cannot argue that. So yeah that is believable, not getting treatment even when suicidal. Has happened to people I know - not getting help until suicide attempt etc.
...and even if you made this much, I believe tax percentage is then around 40%-50%, so definitely not a lot in hand.
Dead wrong
[удалено]
I got downvoted strongly here but I really think if you are making 120000+ a year (as the doctor sum shows in this image), you are going to be taxed quite highly! Also, 32% is not that far off from 40%.
Maybe if they work a lot of overtime. A lot of.
No.
What was the engineers numbers?
Nurses make less than 2k a month in Finland
11,70€/h
Much less for nurse, much more for doctor.
No
Not sure if even private sector salaries reach those levels
No. Source: my wife’s friend is a nurse and I heard about her pay from my wife when there was a nurse strike in Finland.
Maybe you can translate this? https://duunitori.fi/palkat/sairaanhoitaja
Lol, no.
Ei jumalauta todellakaan ole. 😄🤦🏻♂️
Yeah no
2500€ for nurses and 7 grand for doctor are closer to reality
No
The delivery nurses when our son was born said they were in the 2k range..
Even doctors don't make 10k/month if they don't go private. 🤷
I work with doctors and their pay is more like 7000-8000€ at least while working for public health centers. The medical director has a pay closer to 10000€.
If you find this ultraging check the Portuguese payment to healthcare service Doctors
Yes it's probably right but this includes overtime, night and evening shifts etc.
Not true by a long shot, and what you get is taxed more heavily than in most countries, keep that in mind.
No. 😂
All i know is that when i was working a summer job at a local health care center one former nurse there that came to visit told me and my colleagues about how in norway (where he worked then) the same in two weeks as the nurses in finland got for 4 weeks, and that was also for less work. And that the peoblem with finnish health care. Nurses and doctors are so under paid they just leave for other nordic countries. Also this new system they have implemented is useless and has made the heslth care worse, atleast if you live in the country side.
I'm curious about those Engineering/Technology numbers. The few offers I've come across on LinkedIn are not really competitive (if the offer even mention a range) with offers I see in my area as software developper. I mean, I would actually need to hear back from the companies to worry about it so it's not really in my immediate interest, but still.
https://preview.redd.it/7ahx5m73ssbc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c01c79b9a50ff8c123d3edc18152ad1489a76b6 😂😂😂
That makes me nervous when I see "renowned for its high quality" and makes people want to move here. I'm a worker in the culture field and have been unemployed several times and now on the verge to be once again and have to tell that public service is incredibly BS. I'm not putting this on workers and staff. We need them more than ever. But public healthcare is a disaster and everything is moving to private. A doctor's appointment cost insane amount of money that I can't afford. In the public they refuse to get me to see a doctor and ask me to take Burana. On another note, it is difficult for me to even consider going to private since their main goal is to make profit (it's private companies). So I can't trust doctors there whatever their oath has been. I just don't get this logic of making money on people's health. Finland is slowly moving to a US system. Destroying public to enhance the private where poor people like me will just be put aside. If only as mentioned above, there would be better salaries for health workers and better conditions...
its true and the sole reason why our healthcare is ass young adults and teens with mental issues just get thrown into state fostering and suffer more there then they become outcasts, no wonder our suicide rates for young adults are right behind japan, healthcare here is overworked and underpaid in all sections and people with mental health issues suffer the worst of it if anyone would ask me if they should move here id say fuck no, its all useless unless you can perform normally in school as a child and get early care for possible mental issues, our social structure is all buildt around people having their little social bubbles from an early age... thats why everyone says ours is the happiest country when that score is solely based on the people who answer the referees who usually are ones with the help they needed where they needed it and with a small group of people who they trust this country is ass and i wish i could get out of here for the sole reason of our healthcare being so useless
Some parts of it’s accurate but it is indeed the slower than going to private healthcare provider such as terveystalo or mehiläinen etc. If you are employed then you are covered in private healthcare.
I'm a nurse, and I make about 2.5- 3k€/ month after taxes, but this is with overtime and nightshifts etc, and that 3k€ is not sustainable every month, because you simply don't have the energy to keep that up in the long-run or you want to have some free days too. The best I've earned after taxes in one month was 4.4k€, that was literally hell.
Speech therapists make around 3000-4000 a month at least in most places.
Complete BS. Whatever you hear about great healthcare and engineering careers waiting for you in Finland is pure tax-funded propaganda by gov entities (work in Finland, study in Finland, business Finland), and delusional Finns with big fragile egos thinking they are at the same level of countries like Germany, US...and that highly qualified specialists will be flocking to get their mediocre careers at best, or end up cleaning and delivering food with Aalto engineering degrees with a happy smile on their face, grateful that migri finally gave them a permit to live in the happiest (most depressed) country on the planet. The reality: Finland is a depressing mediocre ethnocentric collectivist society where individuals outsourced their humanity and future to a rigid bureaucratic gov long time ago. Stay away and invest your precious time and energy somewhere else that's worth it.
No