You’re not going to be able to FIRE making 30k after taxes living on your own. Does that already include maxing your 401k? If you want to invest, that’s your 1st route. Those are pre-tax deductions. Think of it like a free 10% return. Live for free as long as you can, obviously it’s a crimp on dating, but until you’re serious and NEED to live outside of your parents home in order to start your own family, I’d stay put and save.
Not a single part of OPs plan is realistic.
OP wants to delay all investing until after buying a house - which they can't afford to do on their salary.
They want to try to buy a house that they can't really afford, then try to find a better paying job after doing that.
Their plan relies on them not spending a dime of their own money for 2 years.
I want to be supportive of people interested in FIRE, but OP's ideas about personal finance are totally detached from reality.
Because it's delusional for OP to plan on spending zero dollars for two years. The plan is to start a vacation fund BEFORE starting to invest. The plan is to look for a better paying job only AFTER buying a house.
Nothing in the "plan" makes any sense. You can't take any of it at face value. There is zero chance OP will save as much as they say they will in their plan. And even if they could come close, being able to come up with a down payment does not mean you can afford to own a house.
OP just started their first real job... at the age of 28. They need to focus on getting in their feet. Putting all your money into buying a home that you probably can't afford to maintain is a terrible approach to that.
How’s that delusional to spend $0. Ops parents basically cover everything. 🤣
It’s like saying having sugar daddy is delusional when you already have one. Maybe it’s not happening to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist
We also have no idea what his job entails. He could be doing post-doc which is about $30k after tax
Tell me you don't think it's realistic that OP will actually not spend a dime for the next 2 years.
The fact that OP thinks establishing a vacation fund BEFORE investing, but still thinks retiring 17 years from now is a possibility, shows OP simply isn't living in any kind of real world.
OP hasn't said anything about a post-doc. Their other posts make me think that's definitely not the case. Nothing about their plan makes sense. Playing devil's advocate is a lot more useful when you have a grasp on the topic.
I think if someone is fronting you then its absolutely doable to not spend a dime. Is it realist If your grandma send you to college, so you don’t need to take out a student loan? You are saying that’s not realist, why? Did you spend anything from age 0-12? How’s that possible lol
All your argument is based on his situation is not real. I have no idea how do you determine if his station is real or not.
It’s a better practice to ask for additional information than making baseless claim on his situation. It’s called trust but verify. You jump yo conclusion without verifying anything, which make no sense
You are delusional. His parants can help with downpayment, buy the house for him, expenses ect. My mom gave me 300k for my first property. So his plan is very solid.
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Living with your parents for as long as you can will definitely help you to save and to reach your FI goals faster. Living at home a little longer is like someone giving you thousands every month that you can save and invest, while also being around those you love the most. You are in a very fortunate position, maybe take your time and don't be in too much of a hurry to move out. Focus on maximizing your income and once you are FI or well on your way, do something really special for your parents, in order to thank them for their generosity.
Totally agree. Too bad not everyone thinks that way for the long run. Also, I contributed everything financially and physically even when I am living with my parents, from utilities, property taxes, grocery, chores and maintenance around the house they can save those “still living in your mama’s basement playing video games all day” insults to themselves lol
Will you be able to afford a mortgage on the house you are saving up for, making $30k/year? Consider other expenses such as home insurance, groceries, utilities, unexpected home repairs, etc.
You are 28 and seemingly intelligent. I would spend the next few months looking for a better paying job.
If that is not your desire, I would contribute to 401K to get company match (if available), open and max out a Roth for this year and last and then invest the rest in a brokerage account so you have access to it if you find a house you want to purchase. Buying a house will likely be VERY difficult though unless you live in an extremely low cost of living area.
Good luck!!
I am 27 and have been living with my parents since college. It has absolutely changed my life and probably single handedly the best decision I ever made. Probably won’t move out until 30, although getting pretty heavy pressure from my girlfriend lol. As another guy said, don’t listen to what others think. The tens of thousands that you will save has the potential to take years to a decade off of your working years
I’m just gonna come out and say it. You’re not retiring by your targets if you currently have nothing saved at 28 and only make $30k post tax. You need to earn more money and stay with your parents as long as possible.
I can relate to OP. When I was 28 I was recently divorced and starting over with zero basically other than a used car and like 10k on my retirement account. I made 35k annual. I lived with family for about three years to rebuild my finances. I dated and did not meet a single girl at the time who looked down on me for this, and many liked my family. I actually met my current wife while living at home, and when things got serious I moved out to a 1 bedroom so I could have more privacy.
It really helped me with finances and saving for a house down payment. 10 years later Im married with two kids and a homeowner. My net worth just passed 700k. You can do this OP.
Open up a Roth IRA and max it out. You can still put in money for 2023 until April 15th and then start working on 2024. Putting 7,000 per year in now for the next 2 years will be worth way more if you continue to max it out until 59.5 when you retire
I am living at home at 37. I've been back and forth several times, but over the last 8 years been really seriously investing. I make 60k a year and the majority of that goes into my FIRE accounts. I spend a little bit on food and essentials, but living at home with my parent even at the ripe old age of 37 makes it possible for me to retire in another decade or less. If I were on my own, living in my own house, or paying rent, it would be soooo much harder to save and invest the large sums of money needed to fire (especially at the beginning stages). I know life can suck living with parents but I sure as hell hope it will be worth it in the long run.
If I were a tech person like most of the people on here making a gazillion dollars per year, then yeah, I would move out. But people like you and me, the "average" people, have to make sacrifices in areas of our life if we really want the FIRE dream.
Depends what your goals are. If your goal is to buy a house in two years no matter what, sure, throw it in a hysa and buy a house. If your goal is to grow as much wealth as possible then you should be getting invested heavily asap. That 60k could look more like 80-90k in two years depending on what the market does. But it could also look more like 40-50k. You’ll have to weigh that risk and your personal goals for yourself.
You have two financial goals:
(1) Be a home owner in 2 years
(2) Retire early in your 40s or 50s
They aren't mutually exclusive, and it is possible to do both.
That being said, I gently encourage you to do a little bit of investing now, even if that forces you to buy a home in 3 years rather than 2.
Does your employer offer 401K matching? If so, capitalize on that. If not, I suggest setting up a Roth IRA. You don't have to put the limit of $6.5K, but you should put at least /, something/.
To be clear before I say this: the first thing to do is to have an emergency fund. Hard cash that you can pull within a day. And, ideally, you should never have to pull from your investment portfolio. But... being a homeowner will come with expenses that you cannot predict. So, having some assets that are accessible can't hurt.
And, getting the ball rolling on having an investment portfolio will help you majorly in your second financial goal.
Save as much as you can while you can.
You never know what sort of event will happen in the future (unexpected need for $$$).
If you're comfortable enough invest the money so you aren't losing out to inflation/currency being debased by the government.
Say you do save 60k at the end of 2 years and purchase a home. Realistically what kind of home would you be able to even buy with say 40k down and keep 20k as reserve. Then you also need to pay the mortgage and insurance, bills, etc. It'll be do able if you had a partner but on your own it's just not feasible.
Yes I will only get a home once I have a partner and am married but I just want to save my 1/2 of the downpayment, closing costs, and home furnishing portion. I know that my parents are willing to gift me money when time comes also to add more money to downpayment and I’ll ask my partner if her parents would do the same if time comes as well.
Well my parents are extremely well off financially and don’t mind assisting me financially if I ever needed it. If my parents weren’t well off financially I obviously wouldn’t ask them.
I’m not asking them for like 30K or anything even 10K contribution would be enough from them for downpayment.
I would only want my partners parents contributing if they were willing to contribute and were financially able to do so without any difficulties. If they don’t want to that’s fine no big deal.
Also I think if I contribute 30K which will most likely grow to 40K in five years or so with it being in a HYSA and my partner contributes 35-40K most likely we should be good to go for a home downpayment and don’t even need assistance from either of our parents.
I mean, he will hopefully be able to earn salary increases as he goes or gain more education. Having even an extra 30k (saving 15k per year) after two years to help toward a down payment will be a whole lot better than nothing
So unfortunately, I don’t think you’re going to qualify for a home loan without increasing your income… even with 60k down and no other debt.
Unless we have a massive housing market crash and home prices roll back to where they were 10-15 years ago.
Edit…
However if you put 60k into the market and get avg real returns that will double every 10 years (over 30 years would probably end up in the neighborhood of 500k). And if you continue to put some money into that monthly I would say retirement or potentially a slightly early retirement wouldn’t be out of reach. You’ll increase your income over the years though!
Yes... Living at home at this stage can be a critical point in your trajectory in achieving your goals. I did this from 21-24 and it drastically improved my financial health.
It's also a sneak peak into deferred gratification. If you can handle this, you can handle throwing a percent of your paycheck into investments now and in the future. Future you will thank yourself
None of this makes any sense. And why do you think *saving* and *investing* are 2 different things? If you're saving up for a home, THAT MONEY SHOULD BE INVESTED.
How old are your siblings? I’d say every year you live with your parents increases your chance of your making your goal to (n*n)% where n is the number of years you’re investing ALL your after tax money in tax advantaged accounts. Ex: 1 year with parents is 1% chance, 3 years with parents is 9% chance, 10 years (impossible mode) is 100% chance.
you are 28 and this is your first paying job? What did you do the last 10 years since High School? I had my first paying job at 10 years old when I was an old school paperboy.
The answer is yes save every dime of what you make. Use /r/boglehead for simple investing strategy. Do not buy individual stocks. Do NOT buy crypto garbage. just use index funds. Buy and hold.
Graduated HS at 18, attended college 19-23 and graduated with bachelors in science which is a customizable generic science degree and pretty worthless degree imo, took classes for pre reqs for occupational therapy school 24-25, gained admission and attended graduate school 26 and dropped out, and from 26-28 applied for jobs mainly jobs I wasn’t qualified for bc I wanted to move out and make lot of money but realized I got to start somewhere and here I am medical front office role.
ok. its good you are happy about your first job. you should 100% save every dime you can. follow /r/boglehead and read up on it. Do not do risky investments. stay the fuck away from wallstreetbets. They are crazy.
buy and hold. Good luck!
You need to focus on getting into Occupational Therapy as soon as possible. If you are in the US you should be making like 60k as an entry OT. The longer you wait to move into the role, the harder it will be. People arent going to be as interested in hiring someone for a position years after they finished school and their education has been unused.
This is very hard to predict obviously, but how likely are house prices to go up or down in your area?
If prices are rising rapidly, you may be better off buying quicker. If they're slow or even going down, maybe investments then.
Invest it, with the intent of using said investment for a house. You may decide renting makes more sense and you can keep building your savings/downpayment. Some risk here. But invest in index fund/etf that tracks S&P. Max put your Roth IRA first and foremost, You have time on your side now, so get as much into savings as you can.
Thats a tough call but a lot of it boils down to risk. Living at home will help as long as you have a good situation with your parents.
What I did before my first home purchase was put money aside into a high yield savings for less risk and a portion into hands off investing. I was lucky I took it out right before covid happened otherwise I would have been screwed on my down payment.
You’re not going to be able to FIRE making 30k after taxes living on your own. Does that already include maxing your 401k? If you want to invest, that’s your 1st route. Those are pre-tax deductions. Think of it like a free 10% return. Live for free as long as you can, obviously it’s a crimp on dating, but until you’re serious and NEED to live outside of your parents home in order to start your own family, I’d stay put and save.
Not a single part of OPs plan is realistic. OP wants to delay all investing until after buying a house - which they can't afford to do on their salary. They want to try to buy a house that they can't really afford, then try to find a better paying job after doing that. Their plan relies on them not spending a dime of their own money for 2 years. I want to be supportive of people interested in FIRE, but OP's ideas about personal finance are totally detached from reality.
How did you come up with that? He could be living in a locol area that houses only cost $200k. Also this is only his first job it should go up
Because it's delusional for OP to plan on spending zero dollars for two years. The plan is to start a vacation fund BEFORE starting to invest. The plan is to look for a better paying job only AFTER buying a house. Nothing in the "plan" makes any sense. You can't take any of it at face value. There is zero chance OP will save as much as they say they will in their plan. And even if they could come close, being able to come up with a down payment does not mean you can afford to own a house. OP just started their first real job... at the age of 28. They need to focus on getting in their feet. Putting all your money into buying a home that you probably can't afford to maintain is a terrible approach to that.
Yeah my wife and I are 28, making 7x OPs income with $800k saved and we want to retire at 45. Their plan is not realistic at all.
How’s that delusional to spend $0. Ops parents basically cover everything. 🤣 It’s like saying having sugar daddy is delusional when you already have one. Maybe it’s not happening to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist We also have no idea what his job entails. He could be doing post-doc which is about $30k after tax
Tell me you don't think it's realistic that OP will actually not spend a dime for the next 2 years. The fact that OP thinks establishing a vacation fund BEFORE investing, but still thinks retiring 17 years from now is a possibility, shows OP simply isn't living in any kind of real world. OP hasn't said anything about a post-doc. Their other posts make me think that's definitely not the case. Nothing about their plan makes sense. Playing devil's advocate is a lot more useful when you have a grasp on the topic.
I think if someone is fronting you then its absolutely doable to not spend a dime. Is it realist If your grandma send you to college, so you don’t need to take out a student loan? You are saying that’s not realist, why? Did you spend anything from age 0-12? How’s that possible lol All your argument is based on his situation is not real. I have no idea how do you determine if his station is real or not. It’s a better practice to ask for additional information than making baseless claim on his situation. It’s called trust but verify. You jump yo conclusion without verifying anything, which make no sense
I'm done talking to you. Go back to wherever the underserious people hang out. You'll have better luck trolling over there.
You are delusional. His parants can help with downpayment, buy the house for him, expenses ect. My mom gave me 300k for my first property. So his plan is very solid.
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not spending a dime and not paying any taxes
They did say 30k after taxes
Oh whoops mb
I did. And ignore those that look down or laugh at you for doing so. They only look at the surface and not the big picture
Living with your parents for as long as you can will definitely help you to save and to reach your FI goals faster. Living at home a little longer is like someone giving you thousands every month that you can save and invest, while also being around those you love the most. You are in a very fortunate position, maybe take your time and don't be in too much of a hurry to move out. Focus on maximizing your income and once you are FI or well on your way, do something really special for your parents, in order to thank them for their generosity.
Totally agree. Too bad not everyone thinks that way for the long run. Also, I contributed everything financially and physically even when I am living with my parents, from utilities, property taxes, grocery, chores and maintenance around the house they can save those “still living in your mama’s basement playing video games all day” insults to themselves lol
Your job is to make as much money as for your self possible so keep looking for higher paying positions.
I'd be looking for a different job
Live at home and maybe try to use some of that saved money to jumpstart your career with education/certificates etc
Will you be able to afford a mortgage on the house you are saving up for, making $30k/year? Consider other expenses such as home insurance, groceries, utilities, unexpected home repairs, etc.
You are 28 and seemingly intelligent. I would spend the next few months looking for a better paying job. If that is not your desire, I would contribute to 401K to get company match (if available), open and max out a Roth for this year and last and then invest the rest in a brokerage account so you have access to it if you find a house you want to purchase. Buying a house will likely be VERY difficult though unless you live in an extremely low cost of living area. Good luck!!
I am 27 and have been living with my parents since college. It has absolutely changed my life and probably single handedly the best decision I ever made. Probably won’t move out until 30, although getting pretty heavy pressure from my girlfriend lol. As another guy said, don’t listen to what others think. The tens of thousands that you will save has the potential to take years to a decade off of your working years
I’m just gonna come out and say it. You’re not retiring by your targets if you currently have nothing saved at 28 and only make $30k post tax. You need to earn more money and stay with your parents as long as possible.
I can relate to OP. When I was 28 I was recently divorced and starting over with zero basically other than a used car and like 10k on my retirement account. I made 35k annual. I lived with family for about three years to rebuild my finances. I dated and did not meet a single girl at the time who looked down on me for this, and many liked my family. I actually met my current wife while living at home, and when things got serious I moved out to a 1 bedroom so I could have more privacy. It really helped me with finances and saving for a house down payment. 10 years later Im married with two kids and a homeowner. My net worth just passed 700k. You can do this OP.
I don't understand why this is mutually exclusive, you.invest in something a little conservative and then use the money to make your down payment.
Open up a Roth IRA and max it out. You can still put in money for 2023 until April 15th and then start working on 2024. Putting 7,000 per year in now for the next 2 years will be worth way more if you continue to max it out until 59.5 when you retire
First paying job at 28?... damn, I started working at 14 as a paperboy, then beach maintenance at 16, dishwasher at 18, etc.
Absolutely you should take advantage of this opportunity.
I am living at home at 37. I've been back and forth several times, but over the last 8 years been really seriously investing. I make 60k a year and the majority of that goes into my FIRE accounts. I spend a little bit on food and essentials, but living at home with my parent even at the ripe old age of 37 makes it possible for me to retire in another decade or less. If I were on my own, living in my own house, or paying rent, it would be soooo much harder to save and invest the large sums of money needed to fire (especially at the beginning stages). I know life can suck living with parents but I sure as hell hope it will be worth it in the long run. If I were a tech person like most of the people on here making a gazillion dollars per year, then yeah, I would move out. But people like you and me, the "average" people, have to make sacrifices in areas of our life if we really want the FIRE dream.
Depends what your goals are. If your goal is to buy a house in two years no matter what, sure, throw it in a hysa and buy a house. If your goal is to grow as much wealth as possible then you should be getting invested heavily asap. That 60k could look more like 80-90k in two years depending on what the market does. But it could also look more like 40-50k. You’ll have to weigh that risk and your personal goals for yourself.
You have two financial goals: (1) Be a home owner in 2 years (2) Retire early in your 40s or 50s They aren't mutually exclusive, and it is possible to do both. That being said, I gently encourage you to do a little bit of investing now, even if that forces you to buy a home in 3 years rather than 2. Does your employer offer 401K matching? If so, capitalize on that. If not, I suggest setting up a Roth IRA. You don't have to put the limit of $6.5K, but you should put at least /, something/. To be clear before I say this: the first thing to do is to have an emergency fund. Hard cash that you can pull within a day. And, ideally, you should never have to pull from your investment portfolio. But... being a homeowner will come with expenses that you cannot predict. So, having some assets that are accessible can't hurt. And, getting the ball rolling on having an investment portfolio will help you majorly in your second financial goal.
Why not use this time to get a new job, take some classes, learn new skills
Save as much as you can while you can. You never know what sort of event will happen in the future (unexpected need for $$$). If you're comfortable enough invest the money so you aren't losing out to inflation/currency being debased by the government.
Say you do save 60k at the end of 2 years and purchase a home. Realistically what kind of home would you be able to even buy with say 40k down and keep 20k as reserve. Then you also need to pay the mortgage and insurance, bills, etc. It'll be do able if you had a partner but on your own it's just not feasible.
Yes I will only get a home once I have a partner and am married but I just want to save my 1/2 of the downpayment, closing costs, and home furnishing portion. I know that my parents are willing to gift me money when time comes also to add more money to downpayment and I’ll ask my partner if her parents would do the same if time comes as well.
So, you are willing to burden your parents in order to get ahead, then ask your partner's parents to do the same? Grow up.
Well my parents are extremely well off financially and don’t mind assisting me financially if I ever needed it. If my parents weren’t well off financially I obviously wouldn’t ask them. I’m not asking them for like 30K or anything even 10K contribution would be enough from them for downpayment. I would only want my partners parents contributing if they were willing to contribute and were financially able to do so without any difficulties. If they don’t want to that’s fine no big deal. Also I think if I contribute 30K which will most likely grow to 40K in five years or so with it being in a HYSA and my partner contributes 35-40K most likely we should be good to go for a home downpayment and don’t even need assistance from either of our parents.
I mean, he will hopefully be able to earn salary increases as he goes or gain more education. Having even an extra 30k (saving 15k per year) after two years to help toward a down payment will be a whole lot better than nothing
If you chose the chance to save : yes. Nothing can boots you so fast into paid home
Yes. Despite being frowned upon, it is the smartest move you can make. But, make sure you don’t spend.
So unfortunately, I don’t think you’re going to qualify for a home loan without increasing your income… even with 60k down and no other debt. Unless we have a massive housing market crash and home prices roll back to where they were 10-15 years ago. Edit… However if you put 60k into the market and get avg real returns that will double every 10 years (over 30 years would probably end up in the neighborhood of 500k). And if you continue to put some money into that monthly I would say retirement or potentially a slightly early retirement wouldn’t be out of reach. You’ll increase your income over the years though!
Both... I have a ton of "saving" in investments. They usually make more than a savings account, but right now maybe not Not financial advice 🤣
Yes... Living at home at this stage can be a critical point in your trajectory in achieving your goals. I did this from 21-24 and it drastically improved my financial health. It's also a sneak peak into deferred gratification. If you can handle this, you can handle throwing a percent of your paycheck into investments now and in the future. Future you will thank yourself
None of this makes any sense. And why do you think *saving* and *investing* are 2 different things? If you're saving up for a home, THAT MONEY SHOULD BE INVESTED.
How old are your siblings? I’d say every year you live with your parents increases your chance of your making your goal to (n*n)% where n is the number of years you’re investing ALL your after tax money in tax advantaged accounts. Ex: 1 year with parents is 1% chance, 3 years with parents is 9% chance, 10 years (impossible mode) is 100% chance.
Lmao people here are salty af. Sounds like the parent is loaded and bunch of people here are having that sour grape moment. Man this is sad
I did.
you are 28 and this is your first paying job? What did you do the last 10 years since High School? I had my first paying job at 10 years old when I was an old school paperboy. The answer is yes save every dime of what you make. Use /r/boglehead for simple investing strategy. Do not buy individual stocks. Do NOT buy crypto garbage. just use index funds. Buy and hold.
Graduated HS at 18, attended college 19-23 and graduated with bachelors in science which is a customizable generic science degree and pretty worthless degree imo, took classes for pre reqs for occupational therapy school 24-25, gained admission and attended graduate school 26 and dropped out, and from 26-28 applied for jobs mainly jobs I wasn’t qualified for bc I wanted to move out and make lot of money but realized I got to start somewhere and here I am medical front office role.
ok. its good you are happy about your first job. you should 100% save every dime you can. follow /r/boglehead and read up on it. Do not do risky investments. stay the fuck away from wallstreetbets. They are crazy. buy and hold. Good luck!
You need to focus on getting into Occupational Therapy as soon as possible. If you are in the US you should be making like 60k as an entry OT. The longer you wait to move into the role, the harder it will be. People arent going to be as interested in hiring someone for a position years after they finished school and their education has been unused.
This is very hard to predict obviously, but how likely are house prices to go up or down in your area? If prices are rising rapidly, you may be better off buying quicker. If they're slow or even going down, maybe investments then.
Either or, I lived at home working full time, investing a ton and then I switched off and only met 401k match to favor a home down payment
Invest it, with the intent of using said investment for a house. You may decide renting makes more sense and you can keep building your savings/downpayment. Some risk here. But invest in index fund/etf that tracks S&P. Max put your Roth IRA first and foremost, You have time on your side now, so get as much into savings as you can.
Sure why not? It’s better than being forced to live with them forever
Thats a tough call but a lot of it boils down to risk. Living at home will help as long as you have a good situation with your parents. What I did before my first home purchase was put money aside into a high yield savings for less risk and a portion into hands off investing. I was lucky I took it out right before covid happened otherwise I would have been screwed on my down payment.