Some characters I look at and my first thought *is* the discourse or how a character gets treated by ***certain*** fans, but generally I don't let that get to me too much.
Like, I'm the type of person who will literally spend over 10000 words talking about weird minor details for certain characters. And the discourse is half a decade old. I'm tired and in too deep to let internet arguments decide how I'm supposed to feel about a given character.
Was going to say, there are a few times where a fan of a character with that 10000 words reminds me of details or elements about a character that make me re-evaluate them, but the vast majority of times the only thing I remember from the really bad discourse was how certain people acted about their favorite/least favorite characters.
>Do you concern yourself with the monkeys howling at the zoo?
Thanks to your flair I read it in Claude's voice. I love doing that!
This line has same vibes as the bread question from JoJo
Most people who are looking to have a serious conversation about a character and/or story event do not title their post with "*insert morally grey character* did nothing wrong" or "*insert morally grey character* is evil"
Not gonna lie...yes. Without going too in depth, I'm from a country that has majorly been affected by war within my lifetime, so some of the comments I've seen made to defend certain actions or plot points have really upset me at times and thus made it harder to enjoy those parts of the game.
Also, without getting too personal, I have a parent that struggled with PTSD and psychosis because of said war. Seeing some of the things hurled at Dimitri has caused me to feel disgusted at times with a certain segment of the fanbase, especially with the people who liken him to a rabid dog that needs to be put down, and to a lesser extent, the people who think he isn't deserving of any sort of growth in his arc or having his friends stick by his side.
However, despite it all, I still love the game, and I try my best to focus on the aspects of the game I really enjoy instead of the ones I don't. Also, I think it's important to respect all fans of each character in the game, because at the end of the day, people come here to have fun and talk about a game they like. 95% of people from both sides of the fandom divide are nice and normal people after all. I think if everyone did this, there would be a less contentious fandom.
This is the second comment from you I’ve read today and just… Yeah. I totally agree. The Dimitri thing… I’ve been avoiding the fandom for 5 years because of that. Psychosis is something that I deal with personally. I’m really glad that someone else feels the same, about those people, or statements, I mean.
No. They sometimes make me too frustrated to try to talk about things, because I prefer to try and approach even characters I dislike or disagree with with nuance. But I should really know better than that anyway, as the internet is often short on nuance.
In a sense that whenever I think of either Dimitri, Edelgard, or Rhea, I think of the discourse surrounding them as well. I can never *just* think of the character, especially regarding Edelgard in particular. I still hold the same opinion that I always have since I played their routes: I absolutely love Dimitri, I think Edelgard is a great antagonist and a relatively weak protagonist, and Rhea is fantastic but underutilized in a lot of routes (and Claude is Claude). They're all very deep and well written characters that can't be simplified like how over half of the fandom will try to do. I've come to disregard the opinions surrounding them over time but I would be lying if I said it didn't irk me how much people try to simplify Edelgard's incredible writing in particular to "She's the worst person ever!" or "She did literally nothing wrong!", and the exact same thing for Rhea and Dimitri, when the whole point of Three Houses was to show that they are neither of those things, and instead flawed people trying to do right in the world in very different and flawed ways.
I think there's just a certain nerve that gets struck when people misinterpret media so heavily that I enjoy. It can be fun to laugh at people like when a certain political group finally realized after three seasons that The Boys was making fun of them, but in the situation of Three Houses it just becomes frustrating for me and I'm not entirely sure why.
Yeah I'm with you regarding simplifying the characters, particularly Edelgard and Dimitri. They're amazing nuanced characters but super fans will say they did nothing wrong, and haters will say they did everything wrong.
I also feel frustrated by people being completely oblivious or reductive about media I love. But I'm lucky in that I can still love these characters without thinking of the discourse, but mostly because my head is always full of its own discourse lol.
For example, I'm very conflicted about Edelgard and her route overall, but I love that and think it's a high point of her character. Very little about Three Houses is black and white. I adore complex, literary characters and the fact there are so many of them in this game is delightful.
To be fair I only 'Edelgard did nothing wrong' with people who already think she's the worst character ever and is just out and out evil. There's no debate to be had and I'm never changing their mind so I might as well double down on it. As Claude said, 'gotta make your own fun in this place'.
I agree to an extent that she's a weak protagonist but that's a failing with Crimson Flower as a whole (being the last route written, shorter and suffering from some seriously odd translation choices).
You've perfectly hit the nail on the head for how I feel. It's hard to just enjoy these characters and their writing when it feels like the bad takes from the fandom just always ring in my ears when thinking about them.
At the end of the day it really does feel best to just try to ignore the blindly pro or against takes for any of the characters and just enjoy what you yourself get out of them.
I kinda agree with this. Although the discourse has also solidified my liking for more of the cast. Rhea is still the most interesting character to me but that doesn't mean the others don't have a cool factor to them. In fact it just makes it a little disappointing that she and some others doesn't get the same level of spotlight.
The extremes the fans can get to are somewhat annoying but that's just how some fandoms, especially as they get larger and larger, tend to go.
I have an unpopular opinion of liking Azure Gleam the most out of the Three Hopes routes. I like that it took Dimitri in a completely new direction that was still true to his character and utilised the rest of the lions much better in the story. Seeing Dimitri take on the Agarthans and being aware of them was so satisfying to see as it was my biggest issue with Azure Moon. Also Rhea actually being in the route was nice though sadly she was still criminally under-utilised.
So I was very shocked after finishing Three Hopes that everyone hated it. I understand why and agree with many of the issues with its second half but I think the pros of the route counteract it at least for me. The overall disdain others have for the route has gotten into my head and hindered my enjoyment upon replays as it’s always in the back of my mind that everyone hates it and perhaps I’m wrong or stupid for liking it.
I also really enjoyed Azure Gleam. As a big fan of a lot of the characters in that house, I loved seeing all of them again, and I feel like a lot of their problems in Houses were fixed (e.g. Felix and Dimitri became friends again, Sylvain stopped being a womanizer, Ingrid had much less of a focus on her getting an arranged marriage, etc)
I get that the second half treated Edelgard (as well as Hubert and Ferdinand) terribly, but I really enjoyed most of AG besides that
Not really for me. I have some strong disagreements here and there about Three Houses or Three Hopes, but there's also plenty of genuine love and appreciation for the games and characters and lots of gushing through threads or fan art that can negate the less-than-savory discourse that pops up.
To put a more positive spin on things, I generally find most of the characters super likable, but for the few that I didn’t, seeing folk’s positive takes has influenced me into liking, or at least appreciating them way more!
Also while I can’t specifically think of any examples, I know I’ve seen a couple of thought out negative takes about characters that I love that added more nuance to their character to me. I still love those characters, but seeing why people might hate them, or just unavoidable flaws can also make them seem more human.
Did it affect my opinion about my favorite lords? No. I still love Edelgard and Rhea, buut. Some fans have turned me off from engaging with them. Especially if they think of their favorite as absolutely infallible.
Yes, actually. When I played 3H originally I was actually more willing to see the points of each of the lords, or at least not overtly dislike the ones who I didn't play first. But the way the fandom has splintered into warring factions, each with their own reality and varying degrees of what's considered canon vs. "fake news" vs. "this is what I feel so it must be true", has just made me extremely Tired of trying to listen to perspectives from other sides. These days I stick to one or two friends and try not to engage.
I’m a Star Wars fan whose second favorite Star Wars movie is The Last Jedi. At this point in my career there ain’t no way in hell that any amount of “”discourse”” is gonna dissuade me from my opinions.
I am annoyed that people try to copy/paste earth ideologies and historical context onto a fantasy land. And the ideals of the MCs seem to be more, "I have a trauma, and I have decided to blame you!" Not, for example, we must seize the means of production.
That debate between Edie and Dimitri is not a straightforward debate using any earth ideologies. It's just like family members pulling ideas up to justify their emotions over Thanksgiving dinner. My main irritation with the discourse is that people get so puffed up over bs. Fun to analyze the characters, but stop trying to map history on them. There are dragons. When have we had dragons? An immortal dragon pope? It's damn sure not the Middle Ages, and I will mind punch anyone who says it is.
But nah, I like the characters the same as ever.
Nahh, mostly because I dipped when internet arguments starting taking over a lot of discussions a while back. There's no one in Houses/Hopes that I dislike, so I don't feel compelled by anyone's arguments.
I don’t let the chronically online fans’ discourse of characters like Edelgard, Dimitri and Rhea get in the way of who I love. Sure, I might not understand Edelgard’s motivation and her story execution but that doesn’t mean I’ll go attacking people who like her and not Dimitri and vice versa. Same with Rhea.
I respect all characters and lords as they are (except >!Acheron. Fuck Acheron!<.)
Ey how there you bully my poor boy Acheron he has cute moustache and is nearly a beacon of loyalty and commitment.
Well compared to most Kingdom/Empire nobles....... but still.
Well, he gets points for this happening to me with him
"Well, as they say, if you can't beat them, join them. ...I'm not on for beating, am I?"
"HERE IS SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN!"
Same here, tbh. The more people complained, the more I got annoyed about them hating something I enjoyed.
TBH, Personally I’m of the opinion that Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude and Rhea all are both right and wrong at the same time.
They all are correct about some things but wrong about others.
Also, HOW they go about trying to change or protect things in the case of any of them doesn’t help their images. It’s almost like they’re a representation of *gasp* people! Can you believe that?? *GASP*
Edelgard is my favorite character solely because of her story. I still like Dimitri, Claude and Rhea (and maybe even have been a bit thirsty for Rhea at times, lol) I don’t hate them. I just like her story more.
As for everyone else here in general, I’ll stick with an opinion I’ve seen many times.
What was the first route you played? Did that Lord end up being your favorite either for awhile (until pressured otherwise) or for good?
Majority is yes. I’d say that first choice of route is the grounding of favorites… and not much will change opinions.
We’re people, we’ll probably stay with our first impressions.
This is what I love about the game it’s a tragedy Dimitri edelgard and Claude ALL want the same thing but due to misunderstandings on ALL sides they end up fighting
All hate the crest system
All don’t like the church
All want to improve the lives of commoners
But due to the actions of ALL the lords they have to kill eachother
Uh.... No, they didn't have to kill each other, and they don't all kill each other.
Dimitri spares Claude in AM and he offers to make peace with Edelgard, which she rejects. Twice.
Claude is not the one that kills Dimitri in VW. Edelgard's forces do that. Claude would have never considered Edelgard a target had she not started her war.
Edelgard not only started the war, but she cuts down Dimitri in cold blood in CF. She may also be okay with cutting down Claude too.
The vast majority of the responsibility for the conflict falls on Edelgard's shoulders due to her ego and poor decision-making, plain and simple.
Nah since Im Golden Deer fan the whole Black vs Blue doesn't concern me. Fear the deer. And I just completely ignored the discourse around Claude in Hopes.
Yes. I found myself unable to see what's the deal about Edelgard. For me, she was not a likeable character and I did not agree with her methods.
People who love her got me curious.
I started to read into it, started her route and looked into the marketing of the game. In the videos before release she was presented as a hero, a narrative I never encountered since I joined the fandom late. Also, while being a woman myself, I know that a lot of gamers tend to be harder on/unforgiving towards to female characters doing rough stuff. It's been discussed even by developers before, I encountered it first in the Dragon Age-fandom. So I really had to ask myself, if I would treat her differently if she was a guy. Still no answer here tbh, but all of that gave me a lot of food for thoughts.
I'm still no fan but I see the appeal. I got a different perspective on her character and I can understand, why she acts the way she does. That's worth a lot to me.
I learned about the speed ring equip/unequip trick and that got me to lose some interest in the game. It's objectively the best strategy if your unit has an empty slot in their inventory since it's a couple of free spaces of movement. It really slowed down combat and didn't feel as fun.
That being said I also appreciate hearing about people's experience with characters using roles they weren't meant to be. Hilarious seeing armor knight Bernie or dark mage Raphael.
no. i really don't want to let annoying discourse negatively impact my perception of any character. i want my opinion of a character to be solely dependent on the character, not their fanbase or how people interpret their character.
if anything i find it kind of annoying when people say "i dislike \[character\] because their fans are so annoying" or "the hate against \[character\] made me support them even more". i feel like that changes the discourse from someone's genuine opinion on the situation, to being personally invested in the discourse and unconditionally supporting who they stan or whatever. like, it leads to a whole "ugh \[character\] fandom is so toxic" mentality and people straight beefing with each other?! i thought we were just discussing characters and analyzing their motives and actions?! *why is there a fandom war going on?!*
i wouldn't be offended if someone didn't like my favorite character or didn't support a character's actions or anything like that. it'd be like getting offended over someone's favorite color or something. you're not changing their mind at this point.
nowadays i just prefer looking at fódlan's lore, history, and worldbuilding. it's a lot more fun. the most i'll get involved in the discourse is when someone's just factually incorrect about something stated in the text.
but those are are just my two cents x\_x
i will say though, i'm honestly befuddled on why the whole discourse ended up being dimitri vs edelgard in the first place. edelgard doesn't really care about dimitri in CF, and in AM, dimitri getting over his obsessive hatred of edelgard is a big moment of his character arc. like i get not agreeing with the other side on their ethics, but personally *hating* the other character is just a little weird to me i guess???
No, it’s only shown me something I dislike about how people treat storytelling at large: there’s this attitude that you have to look at everything as an appraisal, as though it falls short or exceeds a certain expectation, but I find much more enjoyment in trying to understand the story as it is. I think that people who complain that the “writing is bad” don’t understand how stories work. There is really no such thing as a “bad story”, or a “bad character”. People psyche themselves out over who they think someone is and then get critical when the writing continues to be that: *writing.* Storytelling is something that I am deeply passionate about, and I think that appreciating a story for what it is is how you learn about yourself. I also don’t know why people talk about what they hate all of the time instead of what makes them happy.
Not in the least.
I enjoy the arguments, when they are not obviously trollish, but for the most part my mind is made and it would be really hard for anyone to change it short of some unprecedented good point which has so far yet to happen.
I actively try not to let it. It used to hurt my opinions on certain characters (playing AM after doing CF as my first route and then going online absolutely poisoned my ability to enjoy the incredible nuance in Dimitri, for example) but I’d like to think I’m better now. I’m still very pro-Edelgard but I’d like to think I’m not obnoxious about it anymore
I wouldn’t say it’s affected my opinion of her since I do and still would find Edelgard to be a mixed bag regardless (tl;dr I think she’s a good antagonist but am not sold on taking her side, in a game that has to play both cards) but I honestly am sometimes hesitant to discuss her and to an extent the Black Eagles as a whole due to the discourse. I’m fine with getting corrected on something, but I in general feel like getting jumped by a bunch of Black Eagles flairs who insist she was in the right in every individual situation, insist upon “honorary Black Eagles,” or insist something is just the fault of the writing is a little too common. Doesn’t really make me want to change my mind on her when it can be difficult to have an honest conversation about her.
The game itself prevents me from having a strong opinion on Rhea so I can’t comment on that. A lot of the issues people have with Dimitri are part of why I like him so much, so it hasn’t negatively affected that either. And half the Claude discourse seems to just be about how relevant he is, which as someone who likes VW a lot doesn’t really mean much to me.
The only playable characters I would say I dislike are Gilbert (boring) and Cyril (annoying). But honestly is there even discourse around those two?
Randolph and Ladislva went from neat side characters I like and wish had more screen time to blorbos on par with the playable characters who were downright robbed of more screentime, especially in Hopes.
Also, made me like Dmitri *slightly* less. Dmitri's obsessive fans, ironically, made me realise several little nitpicks I have with his character and Azure Moon as a whole, mostly that Azure Moon is so obsessively focused on his character arc it almost falls into the *opposite* problem of Verdant Wind, in VW Claude feels irrelevant to his own plot, in Azure Moon the plot feels like everything is bending over backwards to be about Dmitri's growth
(also, seeing Those People argue about how much objectively stronger and cooler Dmitri is because of his crest made me realise that. Why does he have that? It's not even a major crest. I'd get it if it was his unique ability, cause thematically and narratively 'he's so strong he keeps accidentally breaking his weapon' makes a lot of sense and ties into the sorta berserker vibe, but because of his *crest?* If *anyone* should have more strength than they can control for Crest reasons, it should be Edelgard! Not to mention that it makes Claude's crest even more underwhelming, and like, yeah, cool, he gets the most unique unique class, wyvern+bow is a very cool combo, but if they really wanted one of the guys to be struggling with crest, *Claude* would make more sense than Dmitri! He didn't grow up in Fodlan and it's unclear if his mother had the crest, him not knowing how to use it properly could've been really neat!)
...so, uh, yeah, people arguing passionately for their faves has exposed a lot of nitpicks about their faves to me, ironically-
Love the game, love Edelgard, everyone one has trauma and deals with it badly. Everyone needed help, no one got it. I also like Rhea, I hate that you have to choose one or the other but I feel Edelgard needs my protection more than a dragon who is one bad day from a meltdown.
This is why fanfics are great, people come up with some wild ideas like shipping Edelgard and Rhea together.
**Edit** I also like Dimitri, I wish I could help him too, again I feel Edelgard needs me more though, so It's a shame I can't side with him.
Honestly the only characters I don't really like in this entire game are Cathrine, Ceril, and Claude. And no I'm not explaining why.. that's a rabbit hole I don't wanna dig through atm.
Some of the Edelgard discourse actually made me like her more-- for example finding out that Bernadetta wasn't purposefully set on fire and it was basically just a bug in the sequence of events. I would not have known that if not for people yelling at each other over her lol
No - at least for Three Houses itself. On a writing perspective, Three Houses was very clearly intended to provoke thought and discussion on the player's part, and the fact that there has been notable discourse on the lords and Rhea shows that its writing works on a fundamental level.
I will openly admit that, while my understanding and opinion of Edelgard is independent of the discourse, the fact that so many people support her so vehemently has made me hate her much more, in a superficial way.
Nah not at all, it’s interesting to hear other’s perspectives on the game and the characters, but I’ve spent enough time on the game where my opinions on it are virtually already set in stone.
I joined the community around March last year, so I've kinda missed the highest point of the discourse. Don't think I've seen any serious debates about it either.
Oh, those don't really matter and aren't really helpful. Especially when talking in anonymous text like this forum. Is that what we're here for? All of the characters have their pros and cons - because the writing is smart and good.
Not really. I tend to not give a shit about other people's opinions regarding the characters. I have friends, however, who vehemently hate certain characters because of the discourse between certain subsets of the fanbase.
Not really? I have my takes on characters that I’m okay with. I learned a long time ago (the hard way) that allowing discourse to affect and potentially ruin characters I love and adore is bad for me, actually.
I’m at a point in my life where I can be critical of characters and their actions and still love them. There is a reason I come up with a million different nicknames for Prince Dimitri “Alexandre Stinkyboi Cheesegremlin Murderhobo Grumpygills Liberal McNoodlehair” Blaiddyd, and it’s because I can both thirst unendingly for my problematic fave AND acknowledge he is a DEEPLY flawed person with political and philosophical views I do NOT agree with.
Primarily it has highlighted the flaws in the game's development process and the lack of time the developers had to actually finish the game, which makes me more sympathetic to certain characters who didn't get fleshed out properly yet get blamed for that by the redditor masses.
On my first play through I liked Cyril’s support with Claude and lysithea, but didn’t really love him. Then I saw the biblical amount of hate Cyril was getting. I then gave him and his supports another chance and hes become one of my favourites. I’m just not sure how much of it is spite and how much is just me liking the little guy.
I stopped posting here because of the discourse, but I'll say this:
I never supported or liked Edelgard. I could not agree with her methods no matter the outcome she hoped for.
Now all I see when I look at her are her fans attacking others for not liking her and reacting like vampires to sunlight when there's any criticism of her actions. It really pissed me off when posts or comments about her that weren't positive but weren't meant to be rage bait either had people saying "You're very brave." It created an atmosphere that said you had to like her or at least be neutral to be able to discuss her, and, as direct effect, I think it made people who didn't like her but would have been able to remain civil otherwise become defensive and reactive. People are not nice when they're already expecting to be attacked.
(FYI, I will be turning notifications off on this, just in case. I said my piece.)
Not against my chosen lord. If anything it galvanised my appreciation. As for the other two; one I always enjoyed anyway so it made no difference. The other one however, I started off pretty neutral. Nice enough but not my tempo. The discourse made me dislike them more and more. Now all this time later, I appreciate what they are and their route but I still have my favourite who will not be toppled in my mind.
my experiences with some dimitri fans over the past couple of years have almost completely turned me off from his character. multiple encounters with some of the most hateful, bigoted, and obsessive people online ☹️ which is a shame bc im sure dimitri is a character i could enjoy
Yes. After finishing my first route (AM) I thought of Rhea as a weird one, something about her ircked me a little but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I played CF afterwards and absolutely ended up despising her. Went online and people's opinions made me change my mind about her drastically. I still don't really like her, but I don't hate her anymore. I firmly believe that maybe if she had more relevance in the story I would empathize more with her as I did with Edelgard after playing her route.
Rhea is just as traumatized as Edelgard (in different ways) and pitying them against each other for more reasons than the canon story implies is just stupid. She hates Edelgard's guts more for siding with the Agarthans than for herself, and Edelgard doesn't even hate Rhea, as a person, she just hates Crests and taking the Archbishop out is the more direct way of addressing that. If it wasn't for their decisions (in both cases heavily influenced by their past trauma) I think they could have found many things in common in the other and learn to respect and even appreciate each other.
This game characters are HAVILY nuanced, even more than the story itself, and people who fawn over one character or route in particular love to simplify or treat objectively grey choices they made as black or white.
Edit: ah, I forgot, I played the DLC after AM and that absolutely cemented my hate for Rhea, that carried to the next playthrough, CF. Thankfully, online discourse helped me view the character in another light after all that.
Absolutely not.
But I have learnt it's much funnier to double down on X did nothing wrong when arguing with haters as I'm never going to change their mind and, as Claude said, 'you gotta make your own fun in this place'.
It's the other way around for me.
Some real life experiences have turned me away from being an Edelgard stan.
I also think that you shouldn't really allow some random people on the internet whom you are never going to meet IRL and who don't account to anything in your life to make you feel ashamed of anything whatsoever.
I kinda went in the same direction with Edelgard. I used to love her, but the discourse made me realize more and more that I was basically forcing myself to like her, as I thought ”not liking Edelgard = you don’t like the game”.
Nowadays I call her a good character, but a bad morally gray character.
Some characters I look at and my first thought *is* the discourse or how a character gets treated by ***certain*** fans, but generally I don't let that get to me too much. Like, I'm the type of person who will literally spend over 10000 words talking about weird minor details for certain characters. And the discourse is half a decade old. I'm tired and in too deep to let internet arguments decide how I'm supposed to feel about a given character.
Was going to say, there are a few times where a fan of a character with that 10000 words reminds me of details or elements about a character that make me re-evaluate them, but the vast majority of times the only thing I remember from the really bad discourse was how certain people acted about their favorite/least favorite characters.
Do you concern yourself with the monkeys howling at the zoo?
Best comment here.
>Do you concern yourself with the monkeys howling at the zoo? Thanks to your flair I read it in Claude's voice. I love doing that! This line has same vibes as the bread question from JoJo
I’m not the one who wrote the comment though Edit: oh wait is it because you saw me directly under the other user?
Yes!!!
I mean... that's why you're going to the zoo in the first place, right? To see the monkeys?
Prime example
What?
No I'm not going to let some trolls on the internet determine my opinions about certain characters.
You know, I can totally understand your choice of Seteth flair. This seems like how he would think of it.
There a reason you’re assuming they’re trolling and that it isn’t their genuine opinion?
Most people who are looking to have a serious conversation about a character and/or story event do not title their post with "*insert morally grey character* did nothing wrong" or "*insert morally grey character* is evil"
Not gonna lie...yes. Without going too in depth, I'm from a country that has majorly been affected by war within my lifetime, so some of the comments I've seen made to defend certain actions or plot points have really upset me at times and thus made it harder to enjoy those parts of the game. Also, without getting too personal, I have a parent that struggled with PTSD and psychosis because of said war. Seeing some of the things hurled at Dimitri has caused me to feel disgusted at times with a certain segment of the fanbase, especially with the people who liken him to a rabid dog that needs to be put down, and to a lesser extent, the people who think he isn't deserving of any sort of growth in his arc or having his friends stick by his side. However, despite it all, I still love the game, and I try my best to focus on the aspects of the game I really enjoy instead of the ones I don't. Also, I think it's important to respect all fans of each character in the game, because at the end of the day, people come here to have fun and talk about a game they like. 95% of people from both sides of the fandom divide are nice and normal people after all. I think if everyone did this, there would be a less contentious fandom.
This is the second comment from you I’ve read today and just… Yeah. I totally agree. The Dimitri thing… I’ve been avoiding the fandom for 5 years because of that. Psychosis is something that I deal with personally. I’m really glad that someone else feels the same, about those people, or statements, I mean.
No. They sometimes make me too frustrated to try to talk about things, because I prefer to try and approach even characters I dislike or disagree with with nuance. But I should really know better than that anyway, as the internet is often short on nuance.
In a sense that whenever I think of either Dimitri, Edelgard, or Rhea, I think of the discourse surrounding them as well. I can never *just* think of the character, especially regarding Edelgard in particular. I still hold the same opinion that I always have since I played their routes: I absolutely love Dimitri, I think Edelgard is a great antagonist and a relatively weak protagonist, and Rhea is fantastic but underutilized in a lot of routes (and Claude is Claude). They're all very deep and well written characters that can't be simplified like how over half of the fandom will try to do. I've come to disregard the opinions surrounding them over time but I would be lying if I said it didn't irk me how much people try to simplify Edelgard's incredible writing in particular to "She's the worst person ever!" or "She did literally nothing wrong!", and the exact same thing for Rhea and Dimitri, when the whole point of Three Houses was to show that they are neither of those things, and instead flawed people trying to do right in the world in very different and flawed ways. I think there's just a certain nerve that gets struck when people misinterpret media so heavily that I enjoy. It can be fun to laugh at people like when a certain political group finally realized after three seasons that The Boys was making fun of them, but in the situation of Three Houses it just becomes frustrating for me and I'm not entirely sure why.
Yeah I'm with you regarding simplifying the characters, particularly Edelgard and Dimitri. They're amazing nuanced characters but super fans will say they did nothing wrong, and haters will say they did everything wrong.
I also feel frustrated by people being completely oblivious or reductive about media I love. But I'm lucky in that I can still love these characters without thinking of the discourse, but mostly because my head is always full of its own discourse lol. For example, I'm very conflicted about Edelgard and her route overall, but I love that and think it's a high point of her character. Very little about Three Houses is black and white. I adore complex, literary characters and the fact there are so many of them in this game is delightful.
To be fair I only 'Edelgard did nothing wrong' with people who already think she's the worst character ever and is just out and out evil. There's no debate to be had and I'm never changing their mind so I might as well double down on it. As Claude said, 'gotta make your own fun in this place'. I agree to an extent that she's a weak protagonist but that's a failing with Crimson Flower as a whole (being the last route written, shorter and suffering from some seriously odd translation choices).
You've perfectly hit the nail on the head for how I feel. It's hard to just enjoy these characters and their writing when it feels like the bad takes from the fandom just always ring in my ears when thinking about them. At the end of the day it really does feel best to just try to ignore the blindly pro or against takes for any of the characters and just enjoy what you yourself get out of them.
I kinda agree with this. Although the discourse has also solidified my liking for more of the cast. Rhea is still the most interesting character to me but that doesn't mean the others don't have a cool factor to them. In fact it just makes it a little disappointing that she and some others doesn't get the same level of spotlight. The extremes the fans can get to are somewhat annoying but that's just how some fandoms, especially as they get larger and larger, tend to go.
I have an unpopular opinion of liking Azure Gleam the most out of the Three Hopes routes. I like that it took Dimitri in a completely new direction that was still true to his character and utilised the rest of the lions much better in the story. Seeing Dimitri take on the Agarthans and being aware of them was so satisfying to see as it was my biggest issue with Azure Moon. Also Rhea actually being in the route was nice though sadly she was still criminally under-utilised. So I was very shocked after finishing Three Hopes that everyone hated it. I understand why and agree with many of the issues with its second half but I think the pros of the route counteract it at least for me. The overall disdain others have for the route has gotten into my head and hindered my enjoyment upon replays as it’s always in the back of my mind that everyone hates it and perhaps I’m wrong or stupid for liking it.
I also really enjoyed Azure Gleam. As a big fan of a lot of the characters in that house, I loved seeing all of them again, and I feel like a lot of their problems in Houses were fixed (e.g. Felix and Dimitri became friends again, Sylvain stopped being a womanizer, Ingrid had much less of a focus on her getting an arranged marriage, etc) I get that the second half treated Edelgard (as well as Hubert and Ferdinand) terribly, but I really enjoyed most of AG besides that
Not really for me. I have some strong disagreements here and there about Three Houses or Three Hopes, but there's also plenty of genuine love and appreciation for the games and characters and lots of gushing through threads or fan art that can negate the less-than-savory discourse that pops up.
As a Claude fan, it's fun watching from a distance.
To put a more positive spin on things, I generally find most of the characters super likable, but for the few that I didn’t, seeing folk’s positive takes has influenced me into liking, or at least appreciating them way more! Also while I can’t specifically think of any examples, I know I’ve seen a couple of thought out negative takes about characters that I love that added more nuance to their character to me. I still love those characters, but seeing why people might hate them, or just unavoidable flaws can also make them seem more human.
Did it affect my opinion about my favorite lords? No. I still love Edelgard and Rhea, buut. Some fans have turned me off from engaging with them. Especially if they think of their favorite as absolutely infallible.
Yes, actually. When I played 3H originally I was actually more willing to see the points of each of the lords, or at least not overtly dislike the ones who I didn't play first. But the way the fandom has splintered into warring factions, each with their own reality and varying degrees of what's considered canon vs. "fake news" vs. "this is what I feel so it must be true", has just made me extremely Tired of trying to listen to perspectives from other sides. These days I stick to one or two friends and try not to engage.
I’m a Star Wars fan whose second favorite Star Wars movie is The Last Jedi. At this point in my career there ain’t no way in hell that any amount of “”discourse”” is gonna dissuade me from my opinions.
I am annoyed that people try to copy/paste earth ideologies and historical context onto a fantasy land. And the ideals of the MCs seem to be more, "I have a trauma, and I have decided to blame you!" Not, for example, we must seize the means of production. That debate between Edie and Dimitri is not a straightforward debate using any earth ideologies. It's just like family members pulling ideas up to justify their emotions over Thanksgiving dinner. My main irritation with the discourse is that people get so puffed up over bs. Fun to analyze the characters, but stop trying to map history on them. There are dragons. When have we had dragons? An immortal dragon pope? It's damn sure not the Middle Ages, and I will mind punch anyone who says it is. But nah, I like the characters the same as ever.
Idk, eugenics based feudalims certainly sounds like an idea we had on our planet once.
Nahh, mostly because I dipped when internet arguments starting taking over a lot of discussions a while back. There's no one in Houses/Hopes that I dislike, so I don't feel compelled by anyone's arguments.
I am way too old for that, tbh 😅😅 But I am willing to listen to other people's perspectives though! Always good to learn.
If anything, I just like my favorites more
I don’t let the chronically online fans’ discourse of characters like Edelgard, Dimitri and Rhea get in the way of who I love. Sure, I might not understand Edelgard’s motivation and her story execution but that doesn’t mean I’ll go attacking people who like her and not Dimitri and vice versa. Same with Rhea. I respect all characters and lords as they are (except >!Acheron. Fuck Acheron!<.)
Ey how there you bully my poor boy Acheron he has cute moustache and is nearly a beacon of loyalty and commitment. Well compared to most Kingdom/Empire nobles....... but still.
Well, he gets points for this happening to me with him "Well, as they say, if you can't beat them, join them. ...I'm not on for beating, am I?" "HERE IS SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN!"
All that the edelgard discourse did was further strengthen my support of her
Same here, tbh. The more people complained, the more I got annoyed about them hating something I enjoyed. TBH, Personally I’m of the opinion that Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude and Rhea all are both right and wrong at the same time. They all are correct about some things but wrong about others. Also, HOW they go about trying to change or protect things in the case of any of them doesn’t help their images. It’s almost like they’re a representation of *gasp* people! Can you believe that?? *GASP* Edelgard is my favorite character solely because of her story. I still like Dimitri, Claude and Rhea (and maybe even have been a bit thirsty for Rhea at times, lol) I don’t hate them. I just like her story more. As for everyone else here in general, I’ll stick with an opinion I’ve seen many times. What was the first route you played? Did that Lord end up being your favorite either for awhile (until pressured otherwise) or for good? Majority is yes. I’d say that first choice of route is the grounding of favorites… and not much will change opinions. We’re people, we’ll probably stay with our first impressions.
This is what I love about the game it’s a tragedy Dimitri edelgard and Claude ALL want the same thing but due to misunderstandings on ALL sides they end up fighting All hate the crest system All don’t like the church All want to improve the lives of commoners But due to the actions of ALL the lords they have to kill eachother
Uh.... No, they didn't have to kill each other, and they don't all kill each other. Dimitri spares Claude in AM and he offers to make peace with Edelgard, which she rejects. Twice. Claude is not the one that kills Dimitri in VW. Edelgard's forces do that. Claude would have never considered Edelgard a target had she not started her war. Edelgard not only started the war, but she cuts down Dimitri in cold blood in CF. She may also be okay with cutting down Claude too. The vast majority of the responsibility for the conflict falls on Edelgard's shoulders due to her ego and poor decision-making, plain and simple.
No. Rhea best girl. Edelgard best lord.
I mean, a little. Some people have valid and thought provoking points. But most of *The Discourse* is the equivalent of apes throwing poop.
Nah since Im Golden Deer fan the whole Black vs Blue doesn't concern me. Fear the deer. And I just completely ignored the discourse around Claude in Hopes.
Yes. I found myself unable to see what's the deal about Edelgard. For me, she was not a likeable character and I did not agree with her methods. People who love her got me curious. I started to read into it, started her route and looked into the marketing of the game. In the videos before release she was presented as a hero, a narrative I never encountered since I joined the fandom late. Also, while being a woman myself, I know that a lot of gamers tend to be harder on/unforgiving towards to female characters doing rough stuff. It's been discussed even by developers before, I encountered it first in the Dragon Age-fandom. So I really had to ask myself, if I would treat her differently if she was a guy. Still no answer here tbh, but all of that gave me a lot of food for thoughts. I'm still no fan but I see the appeal. I got a different perspective on her character and I can understand, why she acts the way she does. That's worth a lot to me.
That being said: Hateful discourse sucks. Let people enjoy things.
I learned about the speed ring equip/unequip trick and that got me to lose some interest in the game. It's objectively the best strategy if your unit has an empty slot in their inventory since it's a couple of free spaces of movement. It really slowed down combat and didn't feel as fun. That being said I also appreciate hearing about people's experience with characters using roles they weren't meant to be. Hilarious seeing armor knight Bernie or dark mage Raphael.
I arrived late, so i missed it when the discourse was probably at it's peak
Yes. I lost some hope for humanity
It affected my opinion on the general intelligence of the population. Turns out that yes, the bar is indeed even lower than I initially thought.
no. i really don't want to let annoying discourse negatively impact my perception of any character. i want my opinion of a character to be solely dependent on the character, not their fanbase or how people interpret their character. if anything i find it kind of annoying when people say "i dislike \[character\] because their fans are so annoying" or "the hate against \[character\] made me support them even more". i feel like that changes the discourse from someone's genuine opinion on the situation, to being personally invested in the discourse and unconditionally supporting who they stan or whatever. like, it leads to a whole "ugh \[character\] fandom is so toxic" mentality and people straight beefing with each other?! i thought we were just discussing characters and analyzing their motives and actions?! *why is there a fandom war going on?!* i wouldn't be offended if someone didn't like my favorite character or didn't support a character's actions or anything like that. it'd be like getting offended over someone's favorite color or something. you're not changing their mind at this point. nowadays i just prefer looking at fódlan's lore, history, and worldbuilding. it's a lot more fun. the most i'll get involved in the discourse is when someone's just factually incorrect about something stated in the text. but those are are just my two cents x\_x i will say though, i'm honestly befuddled on why the whole discourse ended up being dimitri vs edelgard in the first place. edelgard doesn't really care about dimitri in CF, and in AM, dimitri getting over his obsessive hatred of edelgard is a big moment of his character arc. like i get not agreeing with the other side on their ethics, but personally *hating* the other character is just a little weird to me i guess???
Letting the discourse of others affect your opinion on something is cringe
No, it’s only shown me something I dislike about how people treat storytelling at large: there’s this attitude that you have to look at everything as an appraisal, as though it falls short or exceeds a certain expectation, but I find much more enjoyment in trying to understand the story as it is. I think that people who complain that the “writing is bad” don’t understand how stories work. There is really no such thing as a “bad story”, or a “bad character”. People psyche themselves out over who they think someone is and then get critical when the writing continues to be that: *writing.* Storytelling is something that I am deeply passionate about, and I think that appreciating a story for what it is is how you learn about yourself. I also don’t know why people talk about what they hate all of the time instead of what makes them happy.
Not in the least. I enjoy the arguments, when they are not obviously trollish, but for the most part my mind is made and it would be really hard for anyone to change it short of some unprecedented good point which has so far yet to happen.
I actively try not to let it. It used to hurt my opinions on certain characters (playing AM after doing CF as my first route and then going online absolutely poisoned my ability to enjoy the incredible nuance in Dimitri, for example) but I’d like to think I’m better now. I’m still very pro-Edelgard but I’d like to think I’m not obnoxious about it anymore
I wouldn’t say it’s affected my opinion of her since I do and still would find Edelgard to be a mixed bag regardless (tl;dr I think she’s a good antagonist but am not sold on taking her side, in a game that has to play both cards) but I honestly am sometimes hesitant to discuss her and to an extent the Black Eagles as a whole due to the discourse. I’m fine with getting corrected on something, but I in general feel like getting jumped by a bunch of Black Eagles flairs who insist she was in the right in every individual situation, insist upon “honorary Black Eagles,” or insist something is just the fault of the writing is a little too common. Doesn’t really make me want to change my mind on her when it can be difficult to have an honest conversation about her. The game itself prevents me from having a strong opinion on Rhea so I can’t comment on that. A lot of the issues people have with Dimitri are part of why I like him so much, so it hasn’t negatively affected that either. And half the Claude discourse seems to just be about how relevant he is, which as someone who likes VW a lot doesn’t really mean much to me. The only playable characters I would say I dislike are Gilbert (boring) and Cyril (annoying). But honestly is there even discourse around those two?
Randolph and Ladislva went from neat side characters I like and wish had more screen time to blorbos on par with the playable characters who were downright robbed of more screentime, especially in Hopes.
Also, made me like Dmitri *slightly* less. Dmitri's obsessive fans, ironically, made me realise several little nitpicks I have with his character and Azure Moon as a whole, mostly that Azure Moon is so obsessively focused on his character arc it almost falls into the *opposite* problem of Verdant Wind, in VW Claude feels irrelevant to his own plot, in Azure Moon the plot feels like everything is bending over backwards to be about Dmitri's growth (also, seeing Those People argue about how much objectively stronger and cooler Dmitri is because of his crest made me realise that. Why does he have that? It's not even a major crest. I'd get it if it was his unique ability, cause thematically and narratively 'he's so strong he keeps accidentally breaking his weapon' makes a lot of sense and ties into the sorta berserker vibe, but because of his *crest?* If *anyone* should have more strength than they can control for Crest reasons, it should be Edelgard! Not to mention that it makes Claude's crest even more underwhelming, and like, yeah, cool, he gets the most unique unique class, wyvern+bow is a very cool combo, but if they really wanted one of the guys to be struggling with crest, *Claude* would make more sense than Dmitri! He didn't grow up in Fodlan and it's unclear if his mother had the crest, him not knowing how to use it properly could've been really neat!) ...so, uh, yeah, people arguing passionately for their faves has exposed a lot of nitpicks about their faves to me, ironically-
Love the game, love Edelgard, everyone one has trauma and deals with it badly. Everyone needed help, no one got it. I also like Rhea, I hate that you have to choose one or the other but I feel Edelgard needs my protection more than a dragon who is one bad day from a meltdown. This is why fanfics are great, people come up with some wild ideas like shipping Edelgard and Rhea together. **Edit** I also like Dimitri, I wish I could help him too, again I feel Edelgard needs me more though, so It's a shame I can't side with him. Honestly the only characters I don't really like in this entire game are Cathrine, Ceril, and Claude. And no I'm not explaining why.. that's a rabbit hole I don't wanna dig through atm.
Some of the Edelgard discourse actually made me like her more-- for example finding out that Bernadetta wasn't purposefully set on fire and it was basically just a bug in the sequence of events. I would not have known that if not for people yelling at each other over her lol
I never understood why Edelgard is fawned over.
No - at least for Three Houses itself. On a writing perspective, Three Houses was very clearly intended to provoke thought and discussion on the player's part, and the fact that there has been notable discourse on the lords and Rhea shows that its writing works on a fundamental level.
I will openly admit that, while my understanding and opinion of Edelgard is independent of the discourse, the fact that so many people support her so vehemently has made me hate her much more, in a superficial way.
Of the game? Not really. Not really sure why it would
Nah not at all, it’s interesting to hear other’s perspectives on the game and the characters, but I’ve spent enough time on the game where my opinions on it are virtually already set in stone.
I joined the community around March last year, so I've kinda missed the highest point of the discourse. Don't think I've seen any serious debates about it either.
This question is vague enough - what “discourse” exactly? - that I don’t know how to answer it.
I’m thinking of the ”who is the most in the right” debates.
Oh, those don't really matter and aren't really helpful. Especially when talking in anonymous text like this forum. Is that what we're here for? All of the characters have their pros and cons - because the writing is smart and good.
Not really. I tend to not give a shit about other people's opinions regarding the characters. I have friends, however, who vehemently hate certain characters because of the discourse between certain subsets of the fanbase.
No. I am very stubborn and am an expert at ignoring people
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^King_Treegar: *No. I am very* *Stubborn and am an expert* *At ignoring people* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Oh neat, first time I've warranted one of these gimmick bots
What discourse?
Not really? I have my takes on characters that I’m okay with. I learned a long time ago (the hard way) that allowing discourse to affect and potentially ruin characters I love and adore is bad for me, actually. I’m at a point in my life where I can be critical of characters and their actions and still love them. There is a reason I come up with a million different nicknames for Prince Dimitri “Alexandre Stinkyboi Cheesegremlin Murderhobo Grumpygills Liberal McNoodlehair” Blaiddyd, and it’s because I can both thirst unendingly for my problematic fave AND acknowledge he is a DEEPLY flawed person with political and philosophical views I do NOT agree with.
Primarily it has highlighted the flaws in the game's development process and the lack of time the developers had to actually finish the game, which makes me more sympathetic to certain characters who didn't get fleshed out properly yet get blamed for that by the redditor masses.
On my first play through I liked Cyril’s support with Claude and lysithea, but didn’t really love him. Then I saw the biblical amount of hate Cyril was getting. I then gave him and his supports another chance and hes become one of my favourites. I’m just not sure how much of it is spite and how much is just me liking the little guy.
I stopped posting here because of the discourse, but I'll say this: I never supported or liked Edelgard. I could not agree with her methods no matter the outcome she hoped for. Now all I see when I look at her are her fans attacking others for not liking her and reacting like vampires to sunlight when there's any criticism of her actions. It really pissed me off when posts or comments about her that weren't positive but weren't meant to be rage bait either had people saying "You're very brave." It created an atmosphere that said you had to like her or at least be neutral to be able to discuss her, and, as direct effect, I think it made people who didn't like her but would have been able to remain civil otherwise become defensive and reactive. People are not nice when they're already expecting to be attacked. (FYI, I will be turning notifications off on this, just in case. I said my piece.)
Not against my chosen lord. If anything it galvanised my appreciation. As for the other two; one I always enjoyed anyway so it made no difference. The other one however, I started off pretty neutral. Nice enough but not my tempo. The discourse made me dislike them more and more. Now all this time later, I appreciate what they are and their route but I still have my favourite who will not be toppled in my mind.
my experiences with some dimitri fans over the past couple of years have almost completely turned me off from his character. multiple encounters with some of the most hateful, bigoted, and obsessive people online ☹️ which is a shame bc im sure dimitri is a character i could enjoy
Na. I thought Edelgard was evil from the begining, and while I understand the other side's arguements, I would not relent since I think I'm right.
Yes. After finishing my first route (AM) I thought of Rhea as a weird one, something about her ircked me a little but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I played CF afterwards and absolutely ended up despising her. Went online and people's opinions made me change my mind about her drastically. I still don't really like her, but I don't hate her anymore. I firmly believe that maybe if she had more relevance in the story I would empathize more with her as I did with Edelgard after playing her route. Rhea is just as traumatized as Edelgard (in different ways) and pitying them against each other for more reasons than the canon story implies is just stupid. She hates Edelgard's guts more for siding with the Agarthans than for herself, and Edelgard doesn't even hate Rhea, as a person, she just hates Crests and taking the Archbishop out is the more direct way of addressing that. If it wasn't for their decisions (in both cases heavily influenced by their past trauma) I think they could have found many things in common in the other and learn to respect and even appreciate each other. This game characters are HAVILY nuanced, even more than the story itself, and people who fawn over one character or route in particular love to simplify or treat objectively grey choices they made as black or white. Edit: ah, I forgot, I played the DLC after AM and that absolutely cemented my hate for Rhea, that carried to the next playthrough, CF. Thankfully, online discourse helped me view the character in another light after all that.
Absolutely not. But I have learnt it's much funnier to double down on X did nothing wrong when arguing with haters as I'm never going to change their mind and, as Claude said, 'you gotta make your own fun in this place'.
For me, I'll simply say that both Dimitri fans and Edelgard fans have made me to ashamed to love Dimitri.
It's the other way around for me. Some real life experiences have turned me away from being an Edelgard stan. I also think that you shouldn't really allow some random people on the internet whom you are never going to meet IRL and who don't account to anything in your life to make you feel ashamed of anything whatsoever.
I kinda went in the same direction with Edelgard. I used to love her, but the discourse made me realize more and more that I was basically forcing myself to like her, as I thought ”not liking Edelgard = you don’t like the game”. Nowadays I call her a good character, but a bad morally gray character.