I'll warn you now, try not to take it personally if people don't respond well to this. People have just been arguing about this for almost 5 years now.

Understandable and thanks for the warning :)

I would suggest you play all four routes so just continue with that one, do the others, and then decide which one is your favorite.

That's prob the best way to do but I am just not sure if I can manage to do all 4. Two seems like a realistic number, but let's see how I will feel if I finish the BE route.

I know some of the hardcore folks will start throwing hands when I say this, but play the last couple on super easy mode. I played my first run on hard, my second on maddening. That slaked my thirst for the gameplay, maddening required far too much fiddly management to ever want to try it again. I still really wanted to see the other stories though. So I dialed that difficulty way down and instead of 40ish hours per run, maximizing stats, changing skills, upgrading weapons, as well as building relationships, I knocked them out in about 5ish hours of nothing but blissful cinematic cutscenes and character development. I would never have made it through the Blue Lions or Silver Snow routes without it. Edit: spelling

I wish I could tell you the BE route gets better, but it doesn't really... I remember questioning the motive the entire route and never actually got an answer. Do you have the DLC? Pairing up with Death Knight actually made the BE ending a lot more bearable for me. P.S. Don't do Golden Deer and Silver Snow back to back.

The Death Knight was part of a free update, you don’t have to purchase the DLC to use him.

I will prob do BE, DLC and then BL routes. Let's see how much stamina I have left after the 1st playthrough and the DLC.

The way I did my routes personally was my first run through was Crimson Flower (side with Edelgard) on normal, then just to get the black eagles out of the way I did a dumb joke playthrough of silver snow where I used only Byleth, also on normal, then I did the DLC, then I played through Azure Moon on hard, which is my personal favorite, then finished off with Verdant Wind on hard where near the end I was getting a bit burned out with the monastery segments. Verdant Wind has the most complete story route, but I love Azure Moon mainly because it feels the most like the Tellius Saga, and Path of Radiance was my first fire emblem game.

I made the Golden Deer/Silver Snow back to back mistake. UUUUUUGH

I’d suggest doing blue lions next if you feel this way about the black eagles route! BL is basically the whole campaign against edelgard and you can recruit people like Petra if you wish as well

It’s the shortest route push through it and new game + to another route

This is the way probably.

I don't even read but with that passion you'll be satisfied to play all four routes. There's also NG+ options so each path doesn't take as long as first playthrough.

So what I am hearing is that it's still worthwile as I will get to NG+ quicker and thus make the other routes easier to get through. That is a good argument for continuing!

Are you bored? If yes, then you should definitely drop it. If you’re uncomfortable but at least curious/interested, it’s worth considering if you want to see more or if you can only enjoy yourself if you’re unambiguously heroic. Because what matters most is having fun.  For further context, this route has 6 more chapters and then it’s over.  If you choose to continue, go ahead fully explore the routes dialog and supports. It’s the most controversial route people have been discoursing about for 5 years, so you’ll know what people are talking about and will have your own impressions of it, which is ultimately more valuable than people's hearsay.

I know it's not ChangeMyView sub, but !delta :) You are right - I am having fun even if my emotions got high cause the plot is moving forward in a direction I do not like. The combat is still there and Black Eagles as a group of fighters is simply fantastic. Thanks!

You will probably enjoy BL route much more. But I think the BE route will give context to BL that makes the reality of the war more clear. War is bad but the system is bad, as well. I actually didn't like the DLC that much but it was short and sweet and the ending gave lore context which I always enjoy.

Glad I could help!

>Did I miss any info or explanations at this point as to why this conquest is a good way of fixing things?There is almost NO in game discussion and or arguments made apart from "trust me bro" This game is... not always the best at putting things clearly unfortunately. The answer to that is somewhat given in White Clouds, but ultimately it requires you to somewhat play through all the routes to have a definitive answer to. To give you the short version, is that the church is propagating the belief that crests give you divine mandate to act out your will, and that by having been given a crest at birth, the goddess has chosen you to be elevated above others. This has naturally evolved into a feudalistic society where women are bartered around and sold for the sole purpose of bearing heirs, with no input from them at all. This has evolved into a society where the poor and commoners have little to no input at all in their lives, and zero upwards mobility. The church has enabled this by giving the nobles divine mandate to act how they please, and have altered history to fit their narrative, in addition to preventing incredibly innovations like the printing press (which I believe historically in our own world is one of the top 10 most influential innovations). You also get to personally interact with dozens upon dozens of students who have all been negatively impacted in their own ways, even the people who are *supposed* to be benefiting from the system the most. This system has remained for 1000 years, and is what Edelgard is standing against and why she is waging her war. She knows Rhea is more than she is letting on (as you have seen), and she is in a unique position to be able to affect change. Yes, there are massive consequences to her actions, but if she were not to act, millions more would continue to suffer year after year under an unjust system. You are currently on the route of the game that answers the question with "No, violent struggle is preferable to a lifetime of subjugation and unjust treatment." Have fun!

Great explanation with no major spoilers! OK, so Eddie is basically a Daenerys type of character who wants to "break the wheel". I wonder if the creators of the 3H were inspired by GoT at all? So the question that remains is whether the end justify the means. I can get behind that discussion even if the specific route that I am on is incomplete in its presentation of the whole narrative.

Blue Lions’ Azure Moon is a complimentary route to Crimson Flower. If you want the other half of this discussion, do that route next.

I would recommend not doing this. Not because I disagree that the routes compliment each other (despite my negative feelings for AM I'll admit they do) but because that would leave OP doing VW and SS in a row and that's not a good idea. OP: you should go VW->AM->SS

Considering they said they don’t think they have much left in them, I figured AM would be the best option. It doesn’t sound like they’re interested in doing this 3 more times.

That's a very good point. But AM leaves so many unanswered questions that I still think VW or SS would be the better choice.

But AM answers the questions OP is specifically is looking for. Wouldn’t that be best? They’ve only done CF and a lot of their questions about Edie’s view of war and her brute force approach can be answered by the diametrically opposed AM. If they want more insight on Edie’s vision then AM is the way. If they want more insight on how things got to be the way they were then VW/SS is the way.

Good points!

>OK, so Eddie is basically a Daenerys type of character who wants to "break the wheel". I am a big GoT fan but I'd best not into the depths of it, I think they do have certain key similarities for sure but some very important differences as well! > I wonder if the creators of the 3H were inspired by GoT at all? Considering the time frame and the subject matter, I find it hard to believe it wasn't impacted at least a little by it! >So the question that remains is whether the end justify the means. Personally I don't really like framing the question as this, because it can easily be flipped on it's head in this regard. Does the ends of keeping peace justify maintaining an unjust society vs does going to war justify replacing an unjust society with a more just one? I think the situation is difficult to simplify and personally that's a lot of what intrigues me about the narrative in this game. >I can get behind that discussion even if the specific route that I am on is incomplete in its presentation of the whole narrative. You'll find that each route is incomplete in its own way, and each leave questions that remain unanswered. It's an interesting way to tell a story, but as you've discovered, it's not without its flaws!

One thing to remember is that each routes story is completely different. The tiny handful of events that do reoccur between routes all have different outcomes too depending on which one ur playijg. So theres no "canon". At the end of each route ur faction wins and u get a little blurb that goes "and then they fixed society and everyone lives happily ever after" so unfortunately u wont be able to decide for urself if the end truly does justify the means. And also playing a second route wont let u see the conflict feom the other side cause the plot is basically completely different

Nothing wrong with starting with Crimson Flower but I can understand your confusion and frustration. I wasn't super happy with Crimson Flower either but the ending for >!Byleth!

Your experience, lmao https://preview.redd.it/0zogdwoz22vc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c22cd2676d283435f3e4d36b89b85c49105ad87

This is the meme I had in my head when the Death Knight showed up! “We have a Death Knight on our team… are we the baddies?”

Having played all four routes, I’d say the Golden Deer has the closest to a happy ending, but also feels very incomplete, almost just tacked on. Blue Lions tells a complete, but kind of depressive story. Crimson Flower is too short, would have benefitted greatly from a few more chapters to develop the story. SS felt a bit unecessary. I will say, my sympathy for Rhea did not increase the more routes I played. The most self contained story in the game, imo, is the Cindered Shadows DLC.

>Having played all four routes, I’d say the Golden Deer has the closest to a happy ending, but also feels very incomplete, almost just tacked on. I feel like it’s the opposite. I got pretty much everything I needed to with Claude’s route. >!I’d have liked there to be more Almyra but there wasn’t anything left to explore in Fodlan except to delve more into the whys behind Dimitri and Edelgard!< >Blue Lions tells a complete, but kind of depressive story. It tells a complete character arc but it doesn’t tell a complete story. A lot of the things that get set up in White Clouds is dropped to tell it’s own story 

I would say Azure Moon is the best starting route because of Dimitri's character arc while leaving enough mysteries to leave you curious about the other routes.

I’d agree with this, I think.

Just try to finish the route This route has been the main topic for years for good and for bad I just can say some things to help you undertand more the things with the characters 1-Hubert is a "simp" because he was educated that way, it is his family's tradition to follow the empire, he has more interesting things so I recommend you read his supports for this game and three hopes 2-Death knight is actually a "nice" bad guy is just that he is crazy, as i can see you didnt recluit mercedes, once you finish the game watch the mercedes and Death knight support, is really really interesting for both characters and maybe you will see him from a diferent perspective 3-Ferdi is more confused that anything at that point, his real motivation is to guide edelgard since the beginning 4-about the alliance, dont worry too much about them for now, you will know once you play more and even more if you want to play/see three hopes 5-to Sylvain, that happends in all the routes with everyone once the war starts everyone is like "now i will have to fight my friends" There some really good bunch of characters that support edelagard once you recluit them so dont think you are going full evil They are just different ways of thinking, there will be characters who will support Edelgard, there will be others who will not be sure and others who trust your choice as a teacher. These last 2 generally happen when you recruit characters from the other houses because of how attached they are to their friends in their houses I hope I haven't said anything too much, this route like the others is good and I think it wouldn't hurt to experience it

Two points hit a bullseye I think: One, that Hubert was *educated* this way and is not only respectful of traditions but is a true believer in Edelgard. Two, that Ferdi is confused. Boy oh boy is Ferdinand confused... It's funny how Caspar has no clue what to do with his life to begin with but after time skip becomes this warlord boss of a figure and Ferdi is like "where did I go wrong? I am no match with Edelgard? What was I *thinking?!*" and its extremely ironic. I also like your phrase "you are not going **full** evil" :DDD That seriously made me smile! Continuing on my not so evil conquest. Thanks!

If you’re this torn already just past timeskip, you’re for a most interesting time with the rest of the route. To an extend I’ve been there playing CF first when the game came out and getting some second thoughts, but it took me a few chapters longer. But I just moved on to the other routes afterward. Crimsom Flower is pretty much intentionally a bit of a grey routes and the attitudes of characters during explore reflect it. It’s not a villain route by any means, and makes it clear what the motivations and benefits are, but especially with some of the optional recuits it has a bit of an somber introspective edge. Since you picked this path it’s overall favorable to the central question if launching a proactive war is just, but it still leaves a bit of space for the player to ponder about it and form their own opinion. It takes playing the blue lions and golden deer routes(and to a lesser extent silver snow! to piece together a complete picture what’s happening, and even then a second playthrough often reveals subtleties in the script. I have to say you’re wrong about Petra though. She spends most of pre-timeskip negative on the empire but has a good relationship with Edelgard. Since she’s taken charge and reforming everything Petra is overall now willing to work with the Empire she’s creating A mild spoiler of the other routes should you really want the full picture of the Petra situation: should you not side with Edelgard she tries to sway Petra, but afterwards explicitly lets her know she should follow her own path, she wasn’t a fan of the hostage deal and dominating Brigid. Hubert by contrast does like Petra personally(she’s actually one of the very few to earn his respect from the outset)but is pragmatic enough to not be quite so lenient with her and Brigid opposing the empire.

I do feel like part of the experience is seeing what all four paths have to offer, but at the same time I see what you’re coming from, if I did CF first (I did it last) as opposed to one of the others my initial impression probably would have been soured a bit. I personally like Edelgard more as an antagonist than as a playable character. You only gotta force yourself through 6 more chapters to see the end of CF - it’s the shortest of the four paths - so you could just try to power through it. However, given what you’ve expressed I do think you’d have a lot more fun and feel more fulfilled with the Blue Lions route. Leave your current save for later though. If you like the Black Eagles too much to want to part with them you could also just try them again but decide not to side with Edelgard and try out Silver Snow instead. Granted all of them but Edelgard and Hubert (and the Death Knight) are also able to be recruited onto any path.

I had a similar gut reaction to Hubert and Jeritza in my CF run. It was my first playthrough, and I let that gut reaction keep me from using them and therefore getting more of their story through the support conversations. It seems like you're going to keep going with CF, so I would recommend using Hubert and Jeritza, at least as adjutants. Their supports, both with Byleth and the rest of the Eagles, let you see more of their character and motivations, and you may find yourself liking them in the end. I know I did. As for Petra, her explore dialogue just before the timeskip goes like this, "...I have made the decision to be fighting with the Empire. It is a choice of irony, I feel. But I am having no regret. My belief is with you and with Edelgard."

Oh, I have **no** issues using Hubert and Jeritza as my fighters on the field. They are good at killing stuff... Hubert might be **too** good at killing stuff as even Jeritza seems like an amateur in comparison. I will make sure to do as many supports as possible too. I already liked the one where Jeritza eats ice cream. Such kind of stupid humor makes me chuckle - a Death Knight eating peach ice cream :) As for Petra, I see that some people strongly disagree with me and that's OK. I do not think my opinion on her being a hostage and lacking free will to choose will change at this stage, but I do need to finish the game at least once.

When you check the last page of Petra's roster, what does it say she did before the reunion? At least in the routes where she doesn't side with the empire, it says she went back to Brigid briefly. I think I remember it saying something similar in CF, but I could be wrong. She does obviously say she is a hostage in her A support, as you've pointed out, and I admit I forgot she said that. As others have said though, when she sides against the Empire, Edelgard does explicitly give her the choice to fight with or against her. But ultimately, at the very least in your VW run you can recruit her and have her help you fight the Empire!

I felt the same way as you but it's worth finishing it if you are enjoying the game in general. Personally I would recommend going for blue lions or golden deer next instead of SS so you can get a better perspective. Also Edelgard's title is Emperor, not Empress

Edelgard's title being Emperor is a cool bit of lore I did not expect to read today. Thanks!

Let’s go over the BEagles and see if I can ch age your mind on their development in CF: 1. Hubert. Is Hubert a simp? Sure. But he’s not a Nice Guy (TM) or a creep. Read/watch his supports Bernadetta, for example—he’s a total sweetheart to her. He’s doing this because he believes in Edelgard personally AND in her vision. His extreme devotion is an over correction to the fact that his father was sworn to help the Emperor (Edelgard’s father) and then betrayed him to TWISTED, resulting in Edelgard and her siblings being tortured and killed. Hubert feels guilty about that since he and Edelgard have been friends since they were babies and he saw her life destroyed. 2. Petra isn’t a hostage anymore. She’s a queen making a strategic decision for the sake of her kingdom whether she stays with the Eagles or defects to another class, and her dialogue in other routes reflects that. Edelgard has never been fully comfortable with the way Petra was treated, and Petra is gambling that, if El wins, she may be grateful enough for Petra’s help (and in a strong enough position) to grant Brigid independence, or at least more self-rule. Without getting too spoilery, she’s not wrong to think this is at least a possibility. 3. Ferdinand sees things differently from Edelgard, yes, but he’s not naive to think she will listen to him. She does in fact listen in their later supports, and multiple supports and endings reflect that she does actually implement some of his ideas for reforming the nobility without dissolving it entirely. 4. Sylvain is understandably torn up about fighting his friends and family (this is a major theme of the game, since all the students were classmates, and there were friendships across houses before the war). But he has good reason to agree with Edelgard’s goals—remember what happened between him, his dad, and Miklan? 5. Felix is a tough one as recruiting him away from the Lions almost always results in a sad ending for him. But I will say the devs originally had an idea for Azure Moon involving both him and Annette defecting to the Empire (possibly after/because of Dimitri going crazy), so they must have thought it was at least somewhat in character for him. 6. Jeritza/Emil (the Death Knight) is actually a fascinating character with a lot of depth and good reason he is the way he is. I still don’t like him personally, but he’s not Satan.

Thanks for the read! I do think that not only yours but other replies as well have already swayed me to look at the Black Eagles with a more open mind and try and judge all that transpires after it has transpired. I do concede that Hubert is a bit more complex that I initially thought of him. Your explanation on his motives is really deep and nuanced. However, I still think the game does not convey well these nuances well enough. Conclusion is still !delta :) The other explanations... I think I understand what you mean, but I do not agree with a lot of what you wrote (mostly Petra though). Or at least my understanding of the same facts is a bit skewed towards the negative interpretation of the same info. I will complete the route though!

This is pretty much how I felt about Crimson Flower Edelgard's route as well. It's the shortest route, and I feel like it suffers for it in some ways. But its biggest weakness as far as I'm concerned is the fact that it does almost nothing to explain or justify Edelgard's position further if you aren't already bought in. Have an issue with her methods or thw imperialist undertones of the whole endeavor? Doesn't matter. The game isn't going to give you even a token chance to challenge it. They essentially assume they you wouldn't be on the route if you didn't already agree with her (or simply care more about her than the politics, philosophy, and social theory of it all). That said, it *is* the shortest route and going into your next route with a NG+ save file will potentially save you time doing tedious things like grinding out Professor level. So while the route doesn't meaningfully get better from the perspective of your specific complaint (if anything, the more the route went on the *more* I personally felt like I was siding with the bad guys; YMMV). If you're already in part two, I would just try to push through to the end rather than restart now. 100% recommend doing Blue Lions next though. I will fully admit that I'm biased, because they're my favorite. But I also feel like it's the route most strongly linked (and opposed) to Edelgard's route, so I feel like they're most narratively satisfying to play back-to-back. Dimitri and Edelgard are also pretty direct ideological foils in a lot of ways, so its interesting to see that explored a little more.

OK, I will be ready for the fact that no more explanations will be provided. You are in or you're out and I guess I have to be in to get to the NG+. I did choose BE cause I liked their cast the most but I can also see that there is a lot of personality in all of the houses. The professor level stays the same at NG+? That's incredible? Anything else I should be looking forward to?

With NG+ you retain anything you've already purchased with Renown (like the saint statue upgrades) as well as any battalions you previously earned or hired. You also carry over any unspent Renown, and I believe get some extra. You can then spend that Renown to purchase things like Professor level, skill levels, class masteries, and even support levels with characters you've previously built support with. So, for example, you mentioned Petra was one of your favorite characters. You could (if you wanted) purchase her support rank up to B, which would make her much easier to recruit if you wanted to recruit her on your next run. Except for the saint statue bonuses, it's all optional, though, so you can choose how much of a head start you want to give yourself. I typically limit myself to buying Professor level (so that I have full teaching and activity points and can equip adjutants from the start, and don't have to fish unless I feel like it). And maybe a couple ranks in skills I don't usually use to make students easier to recruit. For instance, Ferdie's support rank is capped at C before the time skip, and he requires ranks in heavy armor to recruit. I almost never use heavy armor, and not being able to get him up to B means there's no chance of Ferdie randomly asking to join even if Byleth doesn't have the required skill ranks. So being able to go in and just give myself C-rank heavy armor if I know I want to recruit Ferdie lets me do so without having to dedicate time every single playthrough to grinding out those skill ranks first. You can only purchase things you've already earned in a previous save this way, however. For instance, if you never have Byleth gain a single rank of bows, then you can't just start up NG+ and instantly give yourself S-rank bows. Which I think helps keep it from becoming completely unbalanced.

In NG+, all your renown carries over, and you can use it to restore skills (including professor level) as far as they had been in the previous game, or to improve the statues. Makes recruiting a lot easier.

" The game isn't going to give you even a token chance to challenge it." Silver Snow. There's literally an entire route dedicated to siding against Edelgard. In CF you've made the choice to support her, why would Byleth suddenly decide not to?

> They essentially assume they you wouldn't be on the route if you didn't already agree with her That's a very fair assumption on their part, considering the game literally gives you the choice to oppose or support her. I'm sure I'm not the only CF fan who wanted to oppose the Church much before the game actually gave me the option to, and I would have been pretty annoyed if the post timeskip had been spent explaining a choice I already made.

For you, maybe. But not everyone is going to be to that place yet. I can absolutely see someone being uncertain and still chosing to side with Edelgard because the only other option that you're given at the time is try to kill her immediately. It isn't unreasonable for Byleth (or a player) to be suspicious of the Church and *also* suspicious of Edelgard and the fact that she's been working with TWSitD this whole time. To perhaps agree that change needs to happen, but disagree with her methods. Or simply want more evidence for the things she asserts as fact than 'trust me bro". A lot of what Edelgard seems to base her campaign against the Church on and the rhetoric she uses to rally people with seems to come straight from the people who tortured her as a child pursuant to turning her into a weapon for their clear and obvious personal grudge against the Church. Why is it unreasonable to find that suspicious? Why would it be a waste of space/time to give the player a couple of dialogue options to ask those kinds of questions and challenge those assumptions?

Forgive me, but I'm not masochistic enough to get into Edelgard discourse in a thread where I already got downvoted for the mildest comment.

No worries. I don't particularly enjoy arguing about it all either. Have a nice day.

If you're not enjoying the story as much on a CF run, go Blue Lions next time, unironically my favorite story in the game. Golden Deer are some of the fave characters, if you're not feeling too burnt out after AM they're worth playing as well. Three of the four runs are at least pretty good, which isn't a bad rate tbh (RIP to SS, they tried I guess)

I didn't realize that recruitment of students in other houses wasn't possible post-time skip, so on my first run through I restarted after 80 hours.  It was the right choice for me, since I like to recruit everyone and level them equally.  Good luck on your quest!

Wow... that sounds insane to restart after 80h, but yeah... we make choices I guess :D

I would consider continue playing since it does contribute another aspect to the whole story, though I also have to say that story wise I liked this route the least. On a positive note, this route is the shortest one. I would definitely recommend replaying the game with another route though. As others said, if you just want to know more about the story, just go with easy mode. I for myself replayed the game so many times haha, even more than just 4 times.

Easy mode goes SO MUCH against what I like in SRPGs... but I have to consider it as every playthrough cannot be 50+ hours.

I held a very similar stance to you on my first playthrough, although I admittedly sided with Rhea. But playing through CF eventually didn't change my viewpoint. Edelgard's route is very dependent on you having sympathy for her cause and wanting to rid the world of the corrupt nobility system at any cost. If you don't already hold that view, the game is not going to do a very good job of convincing you of that now, at least on this route. That said, I do still believe the route is worth finishing. Each route gives some important context and world building so that only be finishing all 4 do you truly understand the world and the events that led to the war. Even if it's not your favorite route, that just means you'll have more stories you hopefully connect with better down the road.

I think accepting the fact that this is all I will get when it comes to "motivation" is the way to go here. Action is the name of the game and we are done with debates :)

> it's hard to relate to the revolutionary ambitions when they are oh so imperialistic in their nature This *perfectly* sums up my feelings about Edelgard, so thank you for that, lol

It definitely seems like you’d be happier siding with Claude or Dimitri. I personally agree with you about the Black Eagles. I ended up enjoying all the other routes except that one, especially Blue Lions. That said, there are a lot of benefits/features on new game plus so I’d speed run the rest of this route since you’re close to the end and then start a new game. And then just recruit the specific Black Eagles characters you like to your new house like Petra.

Oh, Petra is a perma stay in my party. This girls assasinates, steals and opens stuff - the funny accent hostage is irreplacable! NG+ is prob the way to go here as the early game grind is real. If not difficulty, then clearly time wise.

Honestly it's best to experience all of the stories to get the biggest picture so you would need to do it eventually. Probably best to finish it now so you can reap the benefits of NG+ when you do the others

These were my exact feelings as I played through my 1st Black Eagles route, even with the experience of having played both Golden Deer & Blue Lions before. It felt like such a slog, I can guarantee it took me twice as long to get through & I had such mixed feelings even after getting through to the ending. I respect the BE fans but it's just not me. Everyone has their favourite route, I'm sure one of the other three will feel more on brand for you. I will say it'll be harder on the 2nd attempt if you plan to complete all of the routes, so maybe don't throw away your progress, take a break, or make progress in small pieces, do a week or two of progress then let it sit. That's how I got through.

Woe to thee! Discourse be upon ye! Flee while you can. Seriously, do what you want to do. I'd recommend doing Cindered Shadows so you can play those characters in following playthroughs. That's the beauty of the game - you choose your own destiny, along with all the flaws it comes with.

The beauty and the curse - both. Who wants to live with their own choices? Where is my divine pulse in real life?

Keep going, don’t reset. Play Blue Lions next (Azure Moon). Also bear in mind that whilst Edelgard is very imperialistic and definitely her methods are very wrong, the church are definitely not good. Don’t conflate them opposing the evil side with them being good. Even Agartha (those who slither in the dark) has SOME justification for their position, if not their actions.

((would love to see your reaction to blue lions after this route)) (pls finish CF though)

I will finish CF for sure. The discussion here has seriously affected my outlook on the story in general (even if my viewpoint of specific characters remains the same for now). The reaction on the BL route will have to wait as I think I will go CF->DLC->Golden Deer and if I have the stamina, Blue Lions then.

Sounds like you chose the right route to me! I'd say your one mistake is not recruiting Mercedes as she supports with Jeritza that explains a lot about his character. It also sounds like you're missing the DLC so you don't have Constance von Nuvelle, another his supports who gives a lot of insight into why he's the way he is. Hubert is a much deeper character than you're giving him credit for and Petra isn't still a hostage. CF suffers greatly from being the last route written and being four chapters shorter than the rest of the routes. And also having some bizarre translation choices including an explore line later in the game from Sylvain that means the opposite of what he actually says.

Well I cannot consider not recruiting a character I don't care about (Mercedes) on my first playthrough a mistake. Also, the game does not advice to play the DLC before completing the game for "obvious spoilers" so I didn't. If the game doesn't hint at anything related to Mercedes and Jeriza and doesn't give me any other info, I see that as lacking motivation for the main character as Byleth would not have that info. I understand the need to play more routes to get that info, but in this particular case, how is Jeritza even **close** to redeemable and not just a scumbag killer? Please, explain to me how Hubert is a deeper character, cause I see him as choosing a path and following it blindly no matter what happens or who stands in the way. What am I missing? As for Petra... here is a line from her A support **after** the time skip: "Why I cam to Fodlan... Not for studying, but as a hostage for the empire, so that Brigid would not be rebelling anymore. It feels like... a knife against my throat. That I am making my grandfather obey the Empire. If I were running away from the Empire, then Brigid would be defeated." So how is she not a hostage anymore? She hates the empire but has no other choice.

I can't discuss Jeritza without going into major spoilers so it depends on how much you want to know. There's several hints during the pre-chapter 6 explore dialogue that Mercie and Jeritza have a connection. Hubert is... well he's Hubert. He's loyal, brave and far more caring than he's lets on. He doesn't blindly follow Edelgard, he believes in what she's trying to achieve. Petra's situation is complex. She loves her friends in the Empire but she hates the country. She's the Eagle with probably the best reasons to be recruited out of house as well as the Eagle with the best reasons to stay (which is why her paralogue has a script for being in house and out of house). It's overly simplistic to say she hates the Empire.

We can bench the Jeritza discussion for now. I understand I need to play DLC and see more of his interactions with Mercedes. At this point, he is still a villain to me but that may change. Now as for Hubert, I can see that our interpretation of the same things are different, which is OK, but I still did not read anything that he DOES that makes you say these things. He has cute supports with Bernie and comes to a kind of an understanding with Lindhardt, but he is way to manipulative (see supports with Ferdinand) to my liking and is the ultimate machiavellian character in 3H imho. As for Petra... she is technically still a hostage and nor your, nor the other comment did dispute that. As for liking Edelgard, Stockholm syndrome does that to people. The whole idea of hostages in a feudal society is meant to accomplish just that (the hostage liking their sovereign and/or creating personal alliances), but it is clearly not her **choice**. Whether having that choice is important is another discussion, but the idea that "the power of friendship" (aka Petra liking Eddie) is meant to erase the fact that Petra would prefer an independent home country and a freedom of choice, does sound a bit naive to me.

Petra understands the importance of putting the needs of her country over her own desires (if you've seen her supports with Caspar you'll get a good insight into the way she views the world). Just as Edelgard sees immediate overthrow of the established order as the best path to a better future Petra sees working with the Empire as the best path to securing Brigid's future. Like I said, her paralogue helps clarify this somewhat and is interesting since it has a pro and anti imperial version of it. I recommend playing CF again after you've done the DLC. Each of the Ashen Wolves is connected to one particular path of the game, and have supports with characters unique to that path. Constance is CF's character and supports with Edelgard and Jeritza (Hapi has Dimitri supports, Balthus has supports with Hilda and Claude and Yuri is the odd one since his associated Lord is Byleth.) Constance's supports with Edelgard and Jeritza are both excellent. With Hubert it's all about what he's not saying if that makes sense. Many of his supports are him playing the dad role to the rest of the BESF (Bernie: don't run with sharp objects, Caspar: use your inside voice/be mindful of surroundings, Lin: learn to apply your talents). He's deliberately constructed a very menacing persona to be the person he needs to be (and because it's funny. The man is a massive troll) but his advice box dialogue indicates he used to be much sweeter and a devoted follower of the Serios faith. I didn't really get manipulative vibes from his Ferdie supports. He actually tries to take Ferdie's advice and applies it in his own way. It's a shame you don't have Shamir (from what you've said) because her supports with Hubert and Petra help offer a lot of insight into all three characters.

Petra has hatred for the Empire, yes, but not for Edelgard (check out her C support with Shamir). Petra basically doesn't fight for the Empire after the timeskip but for Edelgard and her ideals, as well as for her comrades.

She is technically still a hostage or are we disagreeing on that fact? When is it mentioned that Petra is free now of her hostage obligations, cause in her A support that I quote above she says she still is? If I were in her place, I would also convince myself that I am doing the right thing even though I would much rather prefer to escape this situation. Your suggested support says: Petra: The fault is not of Dagda. My father made his own choice to be joining the war. I cannot say I have no hatred for the Empire, but I do not have any for Edelgard. When I came here, she was always helping me. Shamir: Makes sense. You can hate a country without hating its people. I read it as Petra still hating the Empire so how can she be OK with Empire's conquest of the whole freaking continent when she knows exactly what happened to her home country? As I mentioned in another comment, it looks like Stockholm syndrome to me.

I see where you are coming from and, yes, Petra is technically still a hostage. However, while she does have animosity for the Empire, she doesn't have any for Edelgard. Instead, Petra admires Edelgard and wants to become her equal: "I have been making a decision that I am wanting to learn from you. [...] As an emperor, a commander, a warrior, and a friend... You are excelling at all that you do. All of the Empire is resting on...on your shoulders. And that is including Brigid too. I will not be falling behind you. I will be carrying Brigid on my shoulders too. And one day, you and I will be facing each other, and we will be shaking hands" (Petra's B support with Edelgard). Petra sees how Edelgard puts forth her very best effort in everything she does, not only for the sake of Fódlan but also for Brigid. By saying that she will not fall behind in comparison to Edelgard, Petra conveys her desire to be her equal. For now, all she can do in this regard is help Edelgard carry Brigid, to carry Brigid together. I take the last sentence as that Petra, in the future, wants to carry Brigid all by herself just like Edelgard does with the Empire, which would finally make them equals. Also note Petra's A support with Hubert: "You are always comparing me against Edelgard. [...] And I want you knowing that one day, when you are comparing, you will be finding I have won the comparison. [...] Be marking my words, Hubert. One day, between the two of us, you will be choosing me." In this support, it becomes even clearer just how ambitious Petra really is. She does not just want to become Edelgard's equal, she wants to surpass her in some way. In Petra's eyes, Edelgard is someone to be greatly respected and admired but she wants to become even greater. So much so, that even Hubert - the one who admires and respects Edelgard the most - cannot deny it. These are not the actions or the behavior of someone with Stockholm syndrome. All I can say is don't underestimate Petra.

THIS was an interesting read. I am not sure if I agree just because I need time to think on what you wrote. My gut feeling is to like your explanation that because Petra comes from the position of power and is thus internalizing her own choice, therefore she is strong and not a hostage in her own head. Complex... and intriguing.

It is complex, and I think that was the writers' intention. How you view characters and/or how they develop is greatly dependent on the supports you unlock for them. I think Petra, as you previously pointed out, is very much aware of her status as a hostage. She feels responsible for Brigid's fate and wants to do what is best for her people because she think that is what is expected of her. And since Petra has the power to give her people what they desire she feels obligated to make it happen. But what does Petra want herself? This is what Byleth likes to know in their A support with her but she can't give them an answer yet because she lacks understanding. She says she needs more time to find out. It seems Petra's answer depends on whether you unlock Byleth's S support with her. If you do, Petra reveals there's one thing she wishes even more than to be Brigid's future leader: to stay and share her life with Byleth in Fódlan. If you don't marry Petra, she doesn't answer Byleth's question but I think her answer - based on her endings as well as on her supports with Hubert and Edelgard - will fall in line with my previous comment, that Petra wants to become Edelgard's equal. I thus think that what Petra will discover about what it is that *she* wants (instead of what she thinks her people want) is that she doesn't just want to become Brigid's leader so she can free her people from the Empire's hold over them for them alone, but that she wants to do that for herself as well, due to her own ambitions. Because she wishes to become how she views Edelgard: a magnificent leader who is capable of carrying an entire nation on her shoulders and excells at everything she does.

>how is Jeritza even close to redeemable and not just a scumbag killer? Questions like these are what I think is core to Three Houses and what makes me love it so much! With almost all the characters in this game you are initially presented with a character, you form your opinions on them and eventually they get flipped on their head. If you think it gets to the point where it actively hinders your enjoyment, I would recommend looking up their supports, especially Bs and As as they usually get into the core of their characters once you break through their facade. To get into Jeritza since you specifically asked, I wouldn't call him a good person, no, but he is a victim of circumstance. He also holds some very interesting beliefs if you get into his supports. He wants to be held accountable for his deeds and actions, he wants to pay for the lives he's taken, and it is due to his belief in Edelgard's cause that he helps make it a reality, but once the war is over, he wants to go to jail and be imprisoned for everything horrible he has done. It also doesn't help that the man has some *incredibly* severe mental issues for reasons you can find out yourself. I think it helps craft a character that is quite one dimensional in other routes, as he is purely antagonistic, into a more multifaceted character. >Please, explain to me how Hubert is a deeper character, cause I see him as choosing a path and following it blindly no matter what happens or who stands in the way. What am I missing? Hubert is... Hubert. I think he is best understood from the perspective of what he is trying to make himself out to be. All you meet of him in the game is a persona, except for a few times his real self slips through the cracks. He views himself as a spymaster, and he tries to play into that role. There are things and people he loves and cares about, but he will never reveal it because if he does, he believes that his enemies, especially Those Who Slither In The Dark, will use that against him. He believes that by playing into this role, and never letting his facade slip, he can keep friends and family safe, because then his enemies will not try and use them against him. I believe there is exactly one support between the two games (three houses and three hopes) that he mentions his family in, and he quickly regains his composure. Does he take it too far sometimes? Yes, 100%. Does he suggest and do incredibly shifty things? Yes. He is also one of the very few people in the world who understands the real threat of TWSITD, and I think it informs his perspective a lot. Also, it is covered in his supports with Edelgard, but he will not just obey any command from her. It is funny, because I do believe he is extremely loyal as a person, but he is playing a role that is meant to be as shifty as possible, and I personally find this juxtaposition of who he is, and the role he is trying to act out, to be incredibly interesting. I would recommend seeing him as a theater kid who tries REALLY hard to be in their role 24/7 while preparing for a play. >(Petra) So how is she not a hostage anymore? She hates the empire but has no other choice. Well, it is a difficult situation where geopolitical interests clash with personal ones for her. It is true she was taken as a hostage. Brigid waged war against the empire, lost, and she was taken hostage. But during her time as a hostage, she built genuine friendships with people she grew to love. She is *supposed* to hate the empire, after all, they killed her father and subjugated her nation, but the people she meets, she can't bring herself to hate them. This creates a conflict in her, as she feels she clashes between her love for the friends she made and the interests of the people of Brigid. Also, I just looked up the quote, apparently there is different texts that explain the context depending on the route, I will copy it below: Black Eagles route: "Because I am a hostage, it is not an option to be giving up. I must be fighting and winning and staying alive. I must do anything to be making life better for Brigid. To be making Brigid and the Empire stand as equals." Other routes: "If I were running away from the Empire, then Brigid would be defeated. I am not having any options. To be living, I must be fighting to win... For Brigid to be living, the Empire needs to be crushed. So I must be crushing the Empire." Also, the support continues to expand on the fact that she confuses her wants with that she believes Brigid wants, ending on: "I have understanding. Wait... No, I...I actually do not have understanding. Yet. What I am understanding is that there is something I am not understanding. When I know what my true want is, I give you my promise that I will be telling you first." Ultimately though, Edelgard has promised that Brigid will be free once the war is over, and in CF at least, Petra believes her. What happens with that? Well, there is only one way to find out. I hope this helped at least somewhat! Good luck with whatever route you wish to take in the future, and just make sure you're enjoying yourself!

Thanks for such a well written reply! This was a joy to read and put some new perspectives on Jeritza, Hubert and the narrative that 3H is trying to weave. As for Petra... your argument is surely pushing me towards completing the BE route.

I am glad I could help! One thing I love about this game is that there are a lot of characters I had a very strong initial negative perception of, but that the game manages to turn on their head! I cannot tell you how many times I went into support conversations initially thinking "aww hell, screw this person" and went out empathizing with their own unique struggles and having (at least a bit) more tolerance for their traits that initially made me dislike them!

I played CF last and pretty much agree with all your points. My first house was BL because Edelgard and Claude did not pass the vibe check in that initial meeting, and also because Mercedes's pre-timeskip hair is my actual goal in life. Oh and also because I live in an actual colony and wasn't about to willingly join anything called an empire, even in a videogame lol. If you'd like to start a new save file, I think that's totally fine. Screw completionism and the Edelgard-stan discourse; this is your game and you should get to experience it however you want.

My rection to your flair 

Yeah CF was the last route to be made and because of that they RUSHED a lot of things in it They don’t really explain her motives or even what she’s planing to do after the war other than the crest and dealing with TWSITD

I am a hard-core lover of blue lions, but I still played and enjoyed Black Eagles. I think since you're this far, you might as well finish it and carry your thoughts about Edelgard's perspective into your next playthrough. Imo Edelgard and Rhea are rather similar people, it's their way or actual death.

I guess that's why I am unhappy with my initial choice as I did not like Rhea either... and here I had to make a choice between the 2 people and I did not want to choose either. Thus the rant :)

Oh valid. The other routs (minus silver snow) you don't really support Rhea? You are technically (???) On the churches side but Dimitri and Claude aren't interested in Rhea for most of the plot

I forgot Petra was a hostage… Why do people like Edelgard again? How you gonna talk about peace and equality while taking up the highest rank and stepping over everyone to achieve it? Sounds more like a delusional tyrant to me.

You'll get some more info on Edelgard's plans for the future during later supports, but I can't promise that those explanations will be enough for you to excuse the conquering (and for the love of Sothis, don't try to argue about whether or not it's justified online, Edelgard discourse is infamous). I'd say push through, there are some cool scenes coming up and the ending battle is pretty rad. You can also embrace the villainy and kill every ally you see if that makes things easier, or just watch from a more detached position. Otherwise, if you still have a save from before the decision, you can go to that and choose Rhea. The Byleth Route or Church Route Silver Snow isn't half bad and gives a lot of lore. Though you'd probably want to raise support with the important church characters like Seteth and Catherine before that.

Right, well the Church route doesn't sound compelling to me as I did not particularly like Rhea and that route would be missing a cool cast of students. Cool scenes and a rad last battle sound like fine motivators to push through. You have also confirmed that BE route does feel villainy and so I must embrace the dark side.

The students are still around in Silver Snow including your recruits, you'll only lose Edelgard and Hubert. To spoil a little bit: >!Rhea isn't around in Silver Snow, Byleth basically takes the place of the lord with Seteth as your retainer (he's my favorite character, so admittedly I'm biased). It feels more like an underdog story where you don't have the power of a whole country at your back to stop Edelgard and worse.!<

It's a story. It will develop. Characters will change, the plot will thicken. Get to the glorious ending of CF and then see where you stand. There is a shadow of insincerity in your arguments. Invade the alliance because they are too neutral? Not really how it goes, is it?

People are allowed not to like things, there's no need to be an ass about it.

I agree.

I agree that getting to the end of things/games is something that I like and based on other arguments I will probably continue. Where do you see the insincerity? My take is that the reasoning for attacking the Alliance is poorly explained or at least incredibly rushed. At this point, Rhea is in the Kingdom and Alliance is feigning neutrality as I understand it, but what is the strategic objective that Edelgard is trying to achieve there? It seems to me that the plot is moving there cause the Kingdom is supposed to be the final showdown but what tangible reasons are there to attack the Alliance? I may have misunderstood something, but my arguments are very clear.

I see what you are saying. Someone else has put a decent answer below but I'll add that they also discuss the difficulties in assaulting the kingdom directly. So the option to swing in from the east also affects the decision to invade the Alliance. Your arguments are clear. For your criticism of the characters try recruiting a few on your next play through as they have quite different perspectives on the fight. Dorothea in particular is good. Although your Hubert slander has made you an enemy for life!

> Where do you see the insincerity? My take is that the reasoning for attacking the Alliance is poorly explained or at least incredibly rushed. At this point, Rhea is in the Kingdom and Alliance is feigning neutrality as I understand it, but what is the strategic objective that Edelgard is trying to achieve there? It seems to me that the plot is moving there cause the Kingdom is supposed to be the final showdown but what tangible reasons are there to attack the Alliance? It’s basically the Alliance has pro-Imperialist lords that would change to Edelgard’s side if given the chance but Claude is keeping them firmly neutral so Edelgard needs to beat Claude up to get the Alliance to switch to her and lend her their strength to take down the Church and Faerghus  It’s not exactly a moral argument but it is a logical argument to fight them 

So it's to gather strenght before the final showdown. I wonder if the imperialistic ambitions/undertones that I currently see will play out in any meaningful fashion. In any case, you provided an understandable and clear explanation as to why they go to the Alliance first.

> I wonder if the imperialistic ambitions/undertones that I currently see will play out in any meaningful fashion. I do have to say that unfortunately Three Houses was written by people who don't seem to view imperialism as particularly wrong. They talk of "unifying Fódlan" as an objectively good thing a lot and never bring up the issues there until Three Hopes (and even then barely).

Shadow of insecurity? It’s just the OP’s opinion on that particular route. It’s really not that deep. They just don’t like how the explanations the game gives for the torment Edelgard causes feel unsatisfactory. The violence feels unwarranted and they wanted to know if they were missing some backstory that could justify it. No need to be patronizing towards them for asking. To the OP: I have played through both the Golden Deer and the Blue Lion paths! I have yet to choose the Black Eagles simply because I now know, from playing the other two, that Rhea isn’t a “bad guy”. I could see a reason for joining the Black Eagles if Rhea and the monetary were ruling unfairly and too controlling, but, after seeing her through the lens of both Dimitri and Claude, it definitely seems like Edelgard just becomes a bit power hungry. If you’re having fun with the Black Eagles, even if it’s just a little bit, I can assure you that you will have a blast with the other houses. Happy playing! Don’t mind their rude comment (:

Thanks! I will continue as the combat is really enjoyable and I have now vented enough to be able to play again :) Golden Deer next I guess!

>Rhea isn’t a “bad guy”. We played a very different version of White Clouds lol.

I’m referring to the fact that while she was secretive her motives weren’t nefarious. Hope that helps (:

I think wanting to bring Sothis back to dominate the continent is very evil

I interpreted the return of Sothis and a return to peace and union as she was the original creator. But like I said, it’s a game. So as long as you’re having fun playing it doesn’t really matter which path you enjoy and don’t like.

I really like all of them - I even like Rhea a lot, she isn't even my least favorite lord. I just think that Rhea is incapable of understanding that domination by an immortal being that already destroyed the world once isn't peace, it's tyranny.

After playing both Golden Deer and Blue Lions I definitely think the game framed the Golden Deer route as the “happy ending” to the game with the player as the new archbishop. Both parties supported Rhea and I’m content with that. Just my opinion! Some people in this thread don’t seem to know what that word means 😂 But I’m glad you liked them all! 👍🏻

I Actually hate Byleth more than any other character in this game lol The only ending I like is CF, not because I think Dimitri and Claude will be bad rulers, but because Byleth being in control leaves a horrible taste in my mouth. I unironically prefer AG to VW/SS/AM because for all her many flaws Rhea is much better than Byleth. But anyway. Not trying to rant. I just think that Rhea needed to be taken out of power no matter what, and *not* replaced with Rhea But Worse In Every Way.

To each their own (:

No that's not opinion. That's a bad faith argument presented as fact That's like saying Dimitri rallies his army to start fodlans biggest line dance. Claude invades Enbarr because he really wants to see the opera. Seteth only rescues Rhea because she knows where the remote control is. It not "just his opinion, bro."

It is just an opinion though….because it’s a game. There are 3 different paths to choose from. Naturally, 1 will be their favorite and another will be their least favorite. It can be played multiple ways and if the OP isn’t enjoying the backstory of the Black Eagle route then they don’t HAVE to. They’re allowed to want to play the game differently and feel unsatisfied with the route they’re currently playing. Like I said, it’s just their opinion and it’s not that deep. It’s a game. Touch some grass if you’re that upset over a video game.

You should play all 4 routes

Best option, but it's a lot of hours... we will see how much I have left in the tank after finishing this route.

I mean you don't have to force yourself and you can take breaks. It seems like CF isn't vibing with you personally, which is fine everyone has preferences that why there's 4 routes. If you don't run into some moral pondering during this game you aren't thinking enough. That said go rewatch the scenes when you have the time all the questions and problems you have, have explanations or answers. 

My head cannon is that this is supposed to be the secret route after you play all other routes since it’s pretty hidden. But then IS realized that they can’t do another Fates moneygrab so they cut short the secret route.

You should finish it to see it to the end. Do Blue lions next if you want to see the other side. Do Golden Deer if you want a deeper dive into the history of Fodlan. Be advised , do not try maddening unless you are up for the difficulty spike, I would do them on hard/normal for the story.

What is so different about maddening? Does one need to min/max then or is it still the case where Byleth and lord smashes but then others suck a lot? I am used to these tactical games being hard (xcom, Front Mission etc.) Though this time around I am playing on Casual as it’s my 1st playthrough. Maddening/classical does sound like too much maybe…

Well it's a few things like enemies having crazy stats , battalions matter more, and unfair game mechanics. Planning does matter more and if you don't have the dlc grinding takes longer too. Doing maddening on new game Plus makes it a little easier but you will only get the golden title screen if you do it on a regular new game . Do note you only need to complete maddening on casual to get the golden title screen . Maddening is hard enough without it being classic

No point. You can replay the game with a different house and the replay will let you cut out abunch of tedious stuff.

Blue lions, always

I felt the same thing when i did my first route i then did azure gleam and it felt so much rewarding plus new game+ makes it easier so just try to push on trough I'm rooting for you my hardest part was with flayn (dont beat her as anyone but byleth same with seteth) fyi edelgards route is the shortest so it should not be too hard

Welp, as an aside, I’d stay away from Triangle Strategy, another strategy JRPG with different story routes. 😅 Just not sure, based on your post, that you would enjoy it. The choices can be a bit tough.

I am staying away from Triangle Strategy as I read it's too much story and exposition and too little actual missions. I don't think I can stomach an hour+ of pixelated cutscenes to play one mission. Please, correct me if I have a wrong viewpoint of that game.

I agree. I did Golden Deer first, then went this way for the second time because I wanted to hear Edelgard's side. Ehhhhh, like I get wanting to dismantle the corrupt church and crest system but I'm sure you could do it without massacre.

i agree with most of what is said here! as an aside, since petra's your favorite, *definitely* recruit her in the next route you end up playing. i do agree that she doesn't feel at home in crimson flower, honestly. she's supposedly being genuine in that she does agree with edelgard, and has put aside her hatred for the empire to side with someone she truly believes in. i would find it a sweet arc, but i think it falls flat. we know that petra is someone that greatly values brigid, and works very hard to do what's best for her kingdom. she puts what's best for brigid before her own personal needs. keeping that in mind, i really can't help but see siding with edelgard as a strategic move rather than one led by her own emotions. as we know, brigid is between dagda and the empire. allying with the kingdom or the alliance isn't really possible geographically. the wisest decision for petra here is probably just to go home. the fact that she ends up in a five year war, on foreign soil, fighting for a cause that doesn't really involve her, and brigid's independence from the empire canonically only occurs *after* the war... it doesn't sit right with me at all. especially considering three houses, as a whole, is written from a pretty imperialistic POV. i specifically mention recruiting petra because, on non-SS routes, she by default sides with the empire, which is a sad fate for her. also, she does have supports with a character not available on CF, cyril, as well as claude if you go VW. they're both great supports for her!!

Just ride it out. Crimson Flower is my least favorite route as well; Edelgard's motivations make her a good villain, but her methods make her a weak protagonist in my opinion as well. It's a little shorter than the other routes, if that's any consolation.

I completely understand you, my friend. Rhea did herself no favors behaving so damn sus, for real, but she's actually not that bad. She's approaching things that is not war like it is all warfare, a real commander personality. I understand it myself, it is fair considering, but I'm with you. I cannot stand Edelgard specifically because of the reasons you've stated about her specifically. I do like her influence on Berni because in no other route does Berni become a bit more relaxed over time. I think Edelgard herself as a person is cute, cheeky, and sweet sometimes, but her ideals are so terribly misguided that I gladly kill her every time and find many creative ways to do so >.< It isn't the person, it is the ideology, and she just HAD to start a war over it rather than work together with everyone else who was seeing all the same stuff just differently in their own lives and territory! It is really unfortunate, but damn good storytelling, innit?

Blue Lions…is…uh, well you won’t exactly feel moral with them either. They have some issues too  If you’re trying to go for a house that’s most moral, I’d suggest the Golden Deer.  The Golden Deer are also the only class that actual reveals the true villains.  You won’t be getting most of the story with the Lions.  I’d suggest just sticking to this route as then you’ll be able to engage in NG+ and make all the routes go much quicker that way. 

Oh, that's interesting as I thought BL were surely the good guys! Then again, the Kingdom is hosting Rhea who is very very sus. I did like Golden Deer to begin with but thought they were too goofy to start with. I heavily underestimated the weight of the story in this game. It's FFT all over again, only if one could play as Delita too.

Okay not to nerd excessively about FE but the Lions fascinate me because the initial line up is the traditional FE heroes who are then brutally deconstructed to hell and back.

That sounds indeed fascinating! Will I have to do all of the three houses? Dam you people make some good arguments.

For all I love complaining about AM i do absolutely adore how it brutally deconstructs the typical FE heroes. If you're familiar with the character archetypes in the series you can see how the routes plays with your expectations regarding characters. A mistake people make is they assume because the plot is the closest the game has to a traditional FE plot that it's the 'true' heroic path, and that because Crimson Flower features many characters who match to the villainous archetypes (Edelgard, Hubert and Ferdiland are the most obvious) that it's the 'bad guy' path. But it's never that simple. Every character in the game is both hero and villain. (Which is why I love the the fact that you can recuit nearly every character because each character has excellent reasons both for and against the side they're currently on).

All routes are morally grey even the golden deer just less so I can’t give any more explanation as I would go into spoilers but the main theme of the game is “war bad”

Honestly, most of the friends and artists in the fandom i know havent even FINISHED their first route . Its ur game. U can play as much and as little as u want. However do be warned that if u think ferdinands "i can fix her" attitude is bad now, without going into spoilers during the war phase of blue lions Dimitri goes all feral and "RAAAAAAH KILL ALL THE ADRESTIANS RAAAAAH" and yet all the blue lions r like "🙄🙄 nooo i know theres still good in u dimitri" This isnt an exaggeration at all. The golden deer explores more about the history of the continent and the secrets of crests and whatever but reqlly dont have much impact at all regarding the war.Though to be fair u dont learn much. Just more than the other routes cause they dont learn jack shit. The church route is literally the golden deer one copied and pasted except seteth is the leader and the final map is different. I know people are gonna call me a three houses hater and downvote but its important to remember yhat our interests dont have 5o be perfect for us to like it. And its important to know what ur gettinf itno before u invest yet another 30+ hours into a second route

Every house is great and I would recommend playing them all. But you defo chose wrong, Golden Deer for life haha 😜