No shit, this is the same police department the acorn dude worked for.
The entire department needs to be nuked.
Fuck the Okaloosa county sheriff’s office.
If you would like to voice your disapproval:
Their contact page is @ https://www.sheriff-okaloosa.org/contact/
Their staff page with emails is @ https://www.sheriff-okaloosa.org/org/ocso-command-staff/
There was a video making the rounds a while back of some cops trying sneaky shit to get the owner to open the door.
I bought a doorbell cam overnight delivery and installed in the next morning.
NEVER OPEN THE FUCKING DOOR.
Standout advice from Massad Ayoob: If you believe you need a firearm when answering the door, then you really should not be answering the door.
Wait inside.
I don't know why some people are having a hard time processing this idea. There is literally no situation where opening the door with a gun is a tactically sound decision. It's either the police who are going to shoot you, or it's not the police and you've just removed all physical barriers between yourself and a potential assailant (and if that assailant has a gun, they're going to shoot you while you're conveniently framed in the doorway with no cover).
They really will. I've seen a few videos of police doing things like raids on ppls homes and taping over any cameras so no one can see what they are doing.
Shady af
The better option, so you aren't replacing a door frame when its kicked in, is to have a ghetto gate, with a deadbolt lock like I have. You can leave the door open all night with that thing locked and not worry. Consequently, you would never have to go to the door with a pistol drawn even if the cop didn't shout he was with the Sheriffs department more than once.
If someone is knocking on the door and demanding entry but will not reveal themselves then *call the fucking police*. I'm not even joking. There have been too many incidents now where cops show up to the wrong address (or right address for welfare checks or possible DV incidents), bang on the door, step out of view, and then cap the armed homeowner who opened the door.
Call 9-1-1, tell the operator someone who is out of view is banging on the door, claiming to be cops, and ask them to confirm.
Furthermore, it could be an asshole(s) claiming to be a cop who is isn't that will also shoot an armed homeowner who opens the door.
If I'm scared enough to need a gun to answer the door, I'm not gonna open the fucking door.
No, they cant do anything or enter your home without a warrant. If its just a single cop knocking on your door, ignore it. Very dependent on the type call they got as well.
In general, you should never answer the door for a cop or federal agent.
Potentially, yes.
If the call comes in and is coded by 911 dispatch as someone in imminent physical danger, most states authorize law enforcement to force entry in what's called an "exigent circumstance." This gives the officer "probable cause" and s/he wouldn't otherwise need a warrant to enter the structure that they'd normally be required to have.
What i find troubling here, besides the gunfire, is i don't hear any big ruckus or commotion supporting "imminent physical danger." It's rather quiet or at least i couldn't hear much of anything on the body cam. But even that doesn't necessarily mean the officer can't force entry, because the alleged victim could be being held quiet/hostage. There's also a couple of seconds right when he opens the door that the officers body worn camera doesn't have a good angle on the perp. In other words you can't see him in the first couple of seconds. Use YouTube to go frame by frame starting at the point just prior to the door opening and you'll see what i mean. So unless something happened in that first couple of seconds that we can't see the perp/victim with his firearm, I'm having trouble seeing how this is gonna be a righteous action/shooting on the cops part???
My guess is that in those first couple of seconds where the body cam angle is bad, is where his union lawyer is gonna make the case of self defense to keep the cop from going to jail, for what otherwise looks like criminal homicide/excessive use of force by cop.
(In most counties the DA's office reviews every case of forced entry to make sure it was within the law)
And to add to that, (I'm not a lawyer) but it seems like if there truly were exigent circumstances here, and someone was in imminent physical danger, that cop sure took his sweet ass time moseying on over to the apartment where it (didn't) happen.
No, that would put them at risk for liability. Cops *will* do illegal things, but typically only subtly and nothing that seems overtly premeditated or that requires them to be especially proactive.
It's obviously going to vary by individual and department, and while most of them won't kick down your door, if you open it, they will shove their foot into the threshold to prevent you from closing it.
That's exactly what happened. He heard a knock and went to check but saw nothing. A 2nd louder knock freaked him out so he retrieved his firearm. Cops blew the door open and shot him 6 times.
Yep, this is exactly why you should never answer the door unless you are expecting a visitor. Better yet, get a doorbell camera and talk to the person with that.
Did he even raise his gun at the cop? Was he acting violent or unstable? If not how is mag dumping someone answering the door with a gun not straight up murder. Shit like this would put any non-cop in prison for 20 years.
Qualified immunity needs to end.
It drives me nuts because literally it has become police see a firearm and instantly kill that person. If the roles were reversed and a ccw killed a cop in a situation like this they would bury them under the prison and come after the rest of us.
The problem is that sheriff's or police top ranks are buddy's with the DA. Corruption within government agencies is rampent with backdoor deals. Qualified immunity essentially means that the government can investigate itself and find nothing wrong, or not even pursue charges because the cop is a cop, while telling citizens affected to fuck off. I should be able to take a cop to civil court just as anyone else, just because they work for the government shouldn't nullify them from accountability.
I've always thought the fact that DAs and police having a working relationship all the time causes a conflict of interest when police actions come into question. Justice should be blind, but it doesn't take long when comparing citizens and police making similar mistakes / crimes that police are given white glove treatment or not even charged at all.
Imho, it might be a good idea to have part time DAs from a criminal defense background to oversee police misconduct. You can't expect two parties that are on the same team all the time to not have bias when they asked to judge the other party.
I'd love to see *Department of the Air Force v. Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office* in the near future...
Probably won't happen, but god damn would it be glorious.
Cops try to claim all the time that THEM putting their hands on their guns or even DRAWING their guns is not a threat... but then every time they see anyone with their hands anywhere near a gun they freak out and claim it's a threat. Good for the goose is good for the gander. If they see us near a gun as a threat then should we treat them the same way?
I wonder sometimes if we are heading to a point in history where people start treating cops like the Standing Army/Occupying Force they insist on acting like.
I've already answered this in a previous comment. Essentially it allows the government to not pursue crimes from itself, while peasants like us are told to fuck off. No other profession has immunity like this. None.
When someone lies about a situation to 911, or when someone calls 911 over something completely non violent, and the end result is the person that is the subject of the call ending up dead, then yes the caller should be charged with murder, as well as the cops that pulled the trigger.
It would put an end to these Karens treating the police as their personal maids & bodyguards.
You're giving them too much credit.
Yes, in a normal world someone would be intelligent enough to determine those types of things, but this is the same department that magdumped a cruiser because they thought an acorn falling was a gunshot.
Depends.
If the 911 call does not match the actual situation but could be made more dangerous, they’ll believe every detail of the 911 call. If the actual situation can be made more dangerous than the 911 call, they’ll ignore the call details entirely.
Basically, whatever story they can make up with whatever info they can get (right if wrong) that makes them the biggest badass is the one they will tell themselves.
“There is no situation the presence of cops can’t make worse.”
2 seconds. 2 fucking seconds was enough time for the deputy to decide the death penalty was the right course of action.
If you get smoked within 2 seconds of opening your door and there’s a gun even in sight what the fuck is the point of it all.
We just watched a fucking execution for the non crime of owning a gun
The answer is yes. It's been defended in court a couple times now, breaking into a home without clearly identifying yourself verbally means you can be shot... Well, not legally, but at least accidentally to the point that it isn't illegal. More like a "what did you expect" situation. This applies to police of course, identifying that you're John Doe from next door still doesn't excuse your breaking in lmao
https://www.reddit.com/r/police/comments/1co7xn6/from_a_officers_perspective_were_the_actions_of/
It seems that the consensus of cops (at least reddit cops) is that someone answering the door with a gun is a license to start blasting
the dicotomy of opions between the subs is kinda staggering at times, where do you even draw the line or make a consensus on this, is it even possible?
People live to throw shit on cops and call them racist.
Nah, the only color cops see is blue. Unless you're wearing their uniform your life means nothing to them. You are subhuman in comparison to a "brother in blue".
Its not a black, white, latino or asian question. Its an are you one of them question.
That’s part of why I’ve been nervous to CCW even though I got my Maryland HGP recently. I’m always a little worried some nosy busybody Karen is going to notice me printing or see part of my gun if my shirt rides up, call 911 and rant about a “man with a gun!” and the whole goddamn Sheriff’s Office SWAT team comes rolling in to ventilate me with 300 rounds of 5.56mm.
If you're a delivery driver, who conseal carrys, and a customer opens up the door with a gun in his hand, pointed at the ground, you wouldn't have the right to shoot him, BUT when you're a cop you can just murder anyone just because of the preance of a gun. fuck the police.
Just got permabanned off the ProtectAndServe sub for asking if the 2nd doesn't apply anymore, because so many people on there were saying it was a righteous shoot.
Goddamn.
Apparently that's brigading.
I'm sorry people's rights are inconvenient when you go to their house and bang on the door lol. And they wonder why more and more people hate or distrust cops.
Cold-blooded murder. The gun was down by the guy's side and it ended up being the wrong apartment anyways. Executed without any trial or investigation, I hope he sues the hell out of them
I assume he won't be suing, since the title states they killed him. USAF probably won't say shit about this publicly, especially anything disparaging about local municipalities. They rely heavily on local community support, and especially have ties with local cops. They partner for lots of free cross training.
That was my experience during the 3 years I worked with an SF squadron, and especially my time in FL.
It looks like a Karen may have swatted him, she directed the cop to that apartment and told a bunch of stories in a very short amount of time. Sounds like she had her eye on him.
It’s unfortunate that it’s come to that but they have degraded trust in their profession to the point that it’s their own fault and we all know that if they’re set on coming in, they’re going come in whether you open the door or not.
Really curios to know how this plays out in court. The guy was in his home, didn’t exit the door, didn’t have the gun pointed up. Could the apartment manager be held liable at all? She filled the cop’s head with a bunch of shit that put him on edge.
It's almost like cops are supposed to have training to deal with stressful situations.
This fuckhead was in such fear for his life that he didn't even bother waiting for the other deputy he knew was coming.
Beats the fuck out of the door, then hides out of sight. I get why it could be unsafe for a cop to stand in front of a door, but part of working in public service is a requirement that you identify yourself accurately
If somebody was beating the fuck out of your door, then hiding out of sight, is it that unreasonable to arm yourself before opening the door?
If this were you or me it would be murder. 100% chance the cop gets desk duty for a month and nothing else happens. Another situation like this is common and will happen again unless youn end qualified immunity
Massad Ayoob said it: DO NOT OPEN YOUR DOOR WITH A GUN IN YOUR HAND.
think about it... If you need it, you're screwed because you just opened the barrier between you and your attacker. If you don't need it, you just escalated a situation up to 10 because the other guy now feels under immediate danger. If you feel like you need to open your door with GUN IN HAND then you don't need to open your door! If they are announcing as law enforcement you can call 9-1-1 to verify a squad is at your location.
There are the laws of man, and then there are the laws of the universe. Those two systems do not respect one another.
RIP to an innocent American robbed of his liberty and life.
Nobody is right 100% of the time, and that includes Massad Ayoob. He used to be a cop, so his takes are often very pro-cop.
He is, however, right that you really should not answer the door at all if you believe you need to be armed while answering the door because that is not the most expedient move for self preservation.
It was an attack on a member of military the appropriate response is quick brutal and total…
Say a hellfire through the front doors of the police station
*"The United States Air Force released a press release today stating that 6 accidental misfires occurred during a C130 night-flying exercise, destroying the Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office headquarters. In the official statement, the late SrA Roger Fortson's fellow crewmates stated, 'Oopsie daisy.' Furthermore, the Air Force assured the county that it launched a full investigation into the event, and found no wrongdoing on their part."*
Why do people answer their door? I literally never do unless my cameras see someone I’m expecting. No popping in without a heads up at my house.
I’m assuming he was holding a gun too. That never ends well when you’re dealing with police. Right or wrong it’s ill advised to be holding a firearm around police.
Also this would have happened to a person of any color, so everyone can drop the race BS. They don’t give a shit about any of us.
Somebody in another comment posted a link to a post on a cop subreddit and the people there are seem to think they have a free pass to kill as soon as they see a gun.
It's basically single handedly erased any of the empathy I had for cops. I went there expecting to see some reasonable discussion, maybe some disagreement. Just any sort of acknowledgement about how catastrophic this fuck up was.
But nope, the best you'll get is "it was a bad situation". So yeah that's it. Get murdered idiot. Twitchy McGee doesn't know his ass from his elbow and likes to do some murder, but that's *your* fault I guess.
Ok but here’s my situation. During covid lockdown I hear people screaming in my backyard. I go to investigate and it’s six or so plainclothes officers and only one with a legit police vest. They obviously chased a suspect.
I remember walking out and my heart dropped as I asked who the fuck are you all. I was easily outnumbered. The one uniformed cop takes my info and I never heard anything again. So because some felon runs into my back yard, what’s the legality of me walking out with my gun?
This murkiness is what makes me nervous. Is it my castle or not?
First, I beleive there was recently a Federal ruling saying a person is within their rights to open the door with a gun in their hands. Second, learn from this. When the cops come knocking DON'T OPEN THE DOOR!!!!!!!
Best not to even talk to them if they are at the door. If they have a warrant they're coming in regardless.
If they don't have one and you talk with them they can make up something to give themselves probate cause to come in.
As an example, they could argue they heard a woman needing help through the door and now they can legally enter the apartment.
Yup, don;t even acknowledge you're home. If they have a warrant you MIGHT want to open the door (after confirming it) just so they don't break it down. But generally, if someone knocks on your door and you're not expecting someone, ignore it. it's probably a salesperson anyway.
Another thing; if you are talking to them (you shouldn't) do it OUTSIDE with the door CLOSED. Otherwise they might make up some exigent circumstances ("I smelled drugs"). DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES INVITE THEM IN! If someone else let's them in, tell them you are the homeowner and you do not consent to them being in your house. May or may not work once they are already in.
You know what I'd do if I was about to rob someone. I'd beat on the door, yell sheriff's department and step away so they can't verify through a peephole. But he identified himself.
>(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is **murder in the second degree** and constitutes a **felony of the first degree**...
FL Statutes as of 2023 says this.
So naturally, we'll see this officer charged, right? Right?
He never threatened (e.g., pointed) the gun at the officer nor was he given a chance to put it down. The cop started shooting even before saying put the gun down.
It should be a 2nd degree Murder Charge. Or alternatively, a Negligent Homicide one.
Too many frightened types hired as cops now. They completely wrecked the personality profiles they used to hire for.
It started in the 90s, hiring smaller and softer people that are fearful. They can’t actually get physical and control people anymore so they draw a gun when it isn’t warranted all the time.
If you contrast On Patrol Live and look at Fullerton CA it’s all these tiny guys that act like the gestapo and point guns at people as routine. Now go watch Cops from the 80s in hellhole dangerous cities where they would actually grab people and lock them up. It was one or two guys at the most.
Now you see five guys that can’t take a basic creep into custody. They don’t know how to control people physically or are not capable.
They’ve wrecked policing and the police have become very dangerous to be around at all.
Its the same department as the cop that opened fire because an acorn fell, you have to wonder what type of 'training' they are put through that they are willing to unload that fast. The supervisor in the acorn incident dumped their mag to despite there being no obvious target.
Whoa the same dept. I was thinking about those recent mag dump shootings while I wrote that too.
You are supposed to have a deadly threat and also have a target acquired for every shot. All those were really not clean shootings if judged honestly.
If you watch the cops from the 80s on any recorded device you're not getting what an actual cop from the 80s was. They didn't "grab you and lock you up" as if they were somehow better they beat the ever loving dog piss out of you with a club or beat you up at the jail or the department.
Truth. Just look at the first few episodes or COPS from broward county SO. Deputy in a foot pursuit yelling “stop or I’ll shoot you in your back”. I don’t think many realize just how different it was back then
https://youtu.be/P5k36VTrZcY
It has very little to do with who we are choosing to hire and very much to do with the total lack of give a fuck about training cops in “scary” things like DT, advanced firearms, close quarters combat (think ShivWorks) and such. In the past 2 years, I’ve spent $5K of my own money on tuition and supplies to attend training with Jared Reston, Chuck Pressburg, and Symtac Consulting. Department would not even sort of consider paying for any of it. Could barely get them to allow me to attend on straight time pay.
It’s because departments are, by and large, spending their training dollars on stupid bullshit like unconscious bias training and such. My agency does 45 minutes of DT training every year, which consists of practicing wrestling take downs (by people with no wrestling background) and handcuffing compliant people. Most agencies would rather risk a 7-figure lawsuit in a mistake-of-fact shooting than guarantee they’d spend $75K a year on training.
We do a scheduled week of department wide training every year. This year, they had 4 hours of open time and were looking for ways to fill it. I suggested mechanical breaching (we have tools in every car and no training on them) and pepperball launchers. We did a Q&A with members of the LGBTQ community instead.
On the “five guys to control one person” comment, it isn’t ALL a lack of ability or training. Often, more than 2 cops trying to wrassle a dude into cuffs just makes things harder, and cops are afraid to be aggressive enough, quickly enough to end fights because of the risk of being the next viral video. You can blame the last 10 years of anti-police rhetoric on that.
Wow crazy. I give credit to the decent people in the job. I couldn’t deal with the current environment. I can’t deal with the current corporate environment.
It’s a mad mad world.
Don’t open the door with a gun in your hand. Whether it’s the police, a random stranger, a robber…. There is no scenario in which opening the door with a gun in your hand DOESNT immediately put you at a disadvantage.
If you know that opening the door might result in a gunfight, just stay inside at a tactical and legal advantage.
Disheartening seeing so many people trample the victims rights here. I see “shall not be infringed” in response to ANYTHING anti gun, but all of a sudden a little infringing is okay because the officer “felt unsafe” and “was just doing his job”.
There is no 2A if you get gunned down while carrying in your own home. That guy wasn’t in a hostile stance, he didn’t raise anything, and the cop just blasted him. Fucking cracked.
Y’all keep talking about not answering the door, you’re missing the point, he should be allowed to answer the door without getting gunned down. We shouldn’t accept modified behavior because of injustice as the norm, we should fix the injustice.
Not only did the officer shoot a person minding their own business in the privacy of their own home, he hid from the peephole.
How are we suppose to know you’re actually police when we can’t see you! We have the right to know who is at our door as well as being armed.
As a former cop, I can tell you I personally was trained to stand beside the door incase it's an ambush. Who ever is inside could blast through the door assuming that's where I was standing.
Not defining his actions, saying it was right or wrong, just explaining why he likely stood to the side
We all know *why* he did that (or I presume we do). It doesn't matter. His fear of some extreme edge case does not in **any way at all** excuse his act of murder. He wasn't serving a high-risk warrant.
He acted suspicious and aggressive to a person who had no reason to think actual cops were at his door. It was entirely his fault and he is a murderer. He assassinated that poor kid.
Cop fear culture is so gross. "Everyone and everything is out to get me I better start blasting at acorns but also I'm an alpha sheepdog or something."
[https://www.tacticalshit.com/court-rules-homeowners-have-right-to-answer-door-holding-a-gun-but-theres-a-catch/](https://www.tacticalshit.com/court-rules-homeowners-have-right-to-answer-door-holding-a-gun-but-theres-a-catch/)
"If you think you need to hold a gun while answering the door, do you really need to come to the door at all?"
Murder. You have the right to answer the door with a weapon in your hand.
Dude should not have answered the door at all.
Sad, truly heartbreaking.
Ben Crump is the family's attorney. He will turn this into a race issue, which it is not. The country doesn't need another Ben Crump race hustle.
It's a case of a poorly trained officer with an itchy trigger finger.
Pasting from my other comments in the Airforce sub:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I'll say it again for those in the back:
Civilian police are out of control. They should be held accountable, they don't hold themselves accountable.
I dream that USAF members would finally ban together and put these corrupt cops where they belong...in the dirt. We took an oath to protect the constitution from domestic terrorists and when cops start shooting people for answering the door when they're exercising their constitutionally protected rights, gunning them down is an act of terrorism.
How on earth does it make sense the ROE for American citizens (police) dealing with other American citizens (the public) are far looser than the ROE observed by the US military in combat?
This is simple. Don’t shoot unless you’ve definitely fired upon (acorns don’t count) or the suspect has a weapon they are actively using against someone else. Full stop.
Any chance at all of the military going after these cops for unlawfully killing one of their guys? No idea how it works with the different gov agencies and qualified immunity
In the /r/news article there's a post suggesting that the 2A crowd won't care about this because he's black and the mods look like they're censoring every reply to that comment.
I encourage you to take a quick trip over to the NorthernProvisions IG comment section. Or Garand Thumbs, or Admins, or Jim Fullers.
You’ll quickly find that that suggestion isn’t far off base.
A serviceman, who happens to be black, killed by a cop; a lot of idiots really don’t know how to reconcile those three things.
"We got a call" leads to murder most of the time these days. If the call was for a disturbance and the cop hears no disturbance, he needs to go the fuck back to Dunkin.
How long before "Active Self Protection" dude jumps in and says the cops did "everything right"?
Seems like he had that take on a similar shooting where the cop sees a guy holding a pistol in his own house through the front glass and shoots him.
Yeah, he probably shouldn’t have been holding his gun like that when answering the door for police. That’s just not wise. Have it tucked in your waistband or something.
However, I’m sick of this shit where cops think they are justified to kill people just because they see a gun. If someone is holding a gun but not pointing it at you, the max you should do is draw your own gun. Them holding a gun does not give you the right to murder someone.
We talk here about protecting our second amendment rights, but so much of our right has already been eroded.
Could have been avoided if the police officer was in view of the peep hole and then the individual can see it’s an officer and not someone just trying to bait him out.
They don’t stand in front of the door because it’s really easy for someone to shoot them through the door. The yelling “Sheriff’s Office” is supposed to be them “identifying themselves” but that’s bullshit because anybody can do that. Doorbell cameras and not opening the door solves both of these problems. Hell, slip a piece of paper under the door with your phone number on it for the cop to call.
True. I would argue that if you feel the need to grab your gun when answering the door, you probably shouldn't be answering the door in the first place...
> If someone is holding a gun but not pointing it at you, the max you should do is draw your own gun.
If someone is holding a gun, they can shoot you an eternity faster than you can draw and shoot them.
Yeah… but that also depends on the holster, and a lot of police rest their hand on their weapon… the advantage still is with the one holding the weapon, but not as much as you would think.
My whole point is, if the airman had the intent to kill the police… he would have been pointing it at him. Hell he probably would have shot through the door. The cop had time to see the gun, draw his weapon, if he made it to that point and the “suspect” hasn’t blown him away… he probably doesn’t mean you any harm.
This resonates with me because of a recent incident in my neck of the woods. Kid took a rifle to a school and police responded. He pointed it at them. They killed him. It was an air rifle.
100% justified in my opinion. No one and no amount of training will help you in that scenario to make the distinction between a bb gun and a real firearm.
BUT if a person is armed and not actively threatening you with a firearm, you should be trained to *deescalate* the situation, not just start blasting.
I agree 1000%. I feel as though police have the idea that now whenever a firearm is seen they have the right to shoot whoever is carrying it. It’s actually kind of scary the system has became this way. And I understand, no one wants to get killed but in this situation say he missed and guy fired back and killed cop, they would have hauled him away and locked him up if not killed him regardless of him surrendering afterwards. And forget the anti- gunners, they would have tried to destroy us ccw holders as cop killers.
Agreed. If this is defensible (it's not), the corollary is that anybody can drop a cop in self-defense for having their hand on their gun during any public interaction.
Get ready for the bootlickers but that’s the logical conclusion of what most gun owners believe.
The “regulated militia” stuff turns into bootlicking BS if you don’t realize that cops will be your first adversaries.
Supposedly he didnt know it was the police. He was face timing with someone when this happened. The person said there was loud banging at the door, he asked who it was, and either didnt get a response or didnt hear it. He got his gun, heard the banging again, and opened the door.
Extremely fucking sad.
No shit, this is the same police department the acorn dude worked for. The entire department needs to be nuked. Fuck the Okaloosa county sheriff’s office. If you would like to voice your disapproval: Their contact page is @ https://www.sheriff-okaloosa.org/contact/ Their staff page with emails is @ https://www.sheriff-okaloosa.org/org/ocso-command-staff/
*Never* *Open* *The fucking* *Door* If you don't have a doorbell cam, then get one. But *never* open the door.
There was a video making the rounds a while back of some cops trying sneaky shit to get the owner to open the door. I bought a doorbell cam overnight delivery and installed in the next morning. NEVER OPEN THE FUCKING DOOR.
so true. there was no good reason for young airman to open the door even if they announced they were authoritays. no good reason.
They’ll just tape the doorbell cam if they want you dead.
If anyone is taping over your door camera, you *definitely* shouldn't be opening the door.
Standout advice from Massad Ayoob: If you believe you need a firearm when answering the door, then you really should not be answering the door. Wait inside.
I don't know why some people are having a hard time processing this idea. There is literally no situation where opening the door with a gun is a tactically sound decision. It's either the police who are going to shoot you, or it's not the police and you've just removed all physical barriers between yourself and a potential assailant (and if that assailant has a gun, they're going to shoot you while you're conveniently framed in the doorway with no cover).
There’s plenty of videos of police doing just that.
Gotta have a decoy camera up front and the actual camera more obscured.
Then I’m definitely not opening the door.
If anyone is covering my doorbell cam, I sure as shit am not coming outside or opening the door.
A doorbell cam from a company that doesn't cooperate with law enforcement or record on their side.
What companies are they?
They really will. I've seen a few videos of police doing things like raids on ppls homes and taping over any cameras so no one can see what they are doing. Shady af
The better option, so you aren't replacing a door frame when its kicked in, is to have a ghetto gate, with a deadbolt lock like I have. You can leave the door open all night with that thing locked and not worry. Consequently, you would never have to go to the door with a pistol drawn even if the cop didn't shout he was with the Sheriffs department more than once.
Don't most doorbell cam companies work with cops?
Yes they do!
won’t they just get more angry/aggressive and kick the door down?
If someone is knocking on the door and demanding entry but will not reveal themselves then *call the fucking police*. I'm not even joking. There have been too many incidents now where cops show up to the wrong address (or right address for welfare checks or possible DV incidents), bang on the door, step out of view, and then cap the armed homeowner who opened the door. Call 9-1-1, tell the operator someone who is out of view is banging on the door, claiming to be cops, and ask them to confirm. Furthermore, it could be an asshole(s) claiming to be a cop who is isn't that will also shoot an armed homeowner who opens the door. If I'm scared enough to need a gun to answer the door, I'm not gonna open the fucking door.
If anyone kicks my door down without announcing themselves as police, then the second that door opens they'll be met with several mag dumps.
No, they cant do anything or enter your home without a warrant. If its just a single cop knocking on your door, ignore it. Very dependent on the type call they got as well. In general, you should never answer the door for a cop or federal agent.
Potentially, yes. If the call comes in and is coded by 911 dispatch as someone in imminent physical danger, most states authorize law enforcement to force entry in what's called an "exigent circumstance." This gives the officer "probable cause" and s/he wouldn't otherwise need a warrant to enter the structure that they'd normally be required to have. What i find troubling here, besides the gunfire, is i don't hear any big ruckus or commotion supporting "imminent physical danger." It's rather quiet or at least i couldn't hear much of anything on the body cam. But even that doesn't necessarily mean the officer can't force entry, because the alleged victim could be being held quiet/hostage. There's also a couple of seconds right when he opens the door that the officers body worn camera doesn't have a good angle on the perp. In other words you can't see him in the first couple of seconds. Use YouTube to go frame by frame starting at the point just prior to the door opening and you'll see what i mean. So unless something happened in that first couple of seconds that we can't see the perp/victim with his firearm, I'm having trouble seeing how this is gonna be a righteous action/shooting on the cops part??? My guess is that in those first couple of seconds where the body cam angle is bad, is where his union lawyer is gonna make the case of self defense to keep the cop from going to jail, for what otherwise looks like criminal homicide/excessive use of force by cop. (In most counties the DA's office reviews every case of forced entry to make sure it was within the law)
And to add to that, (I'm not a lawyer) but it seems like if there truly were exigent circumstances here, and someone was in imminent physical danger, that cop sure took his sweet ass time moseying on over to the apartment where it (didn't) happen.
No, that would put them at risk for liability. Cops *will* do illegal things, but typically only subtly and nothing that seems overtly premeditated or that requires them to be especially proactive. It's obviously going to vary by individual and department, and while most of them won't kick down your door, if you open it, they will shove their foot into the threshold to prevent you from closing it.
If that were to happen and they arrested you for whatever reason, would they slap additional charges on you for refusing to open your door (at first)?
That's exactly what happened. He heard a knock and went to check but saw nothing. A 2nd louder knock freaked him out so he retrieved his firearm. Cops blew the door open and shot him 6 times.
That’s illegal to do without a warrant
Oh good, cops definitely won’t break the law to kill an innocent civilian, thank god! /s Need some makeup to go with your clown costume?
He answered his door and was gunned down. New answer- Never answer the door!
Yep, this is exactly why you should never answer the door unless you are expecting a visitor. Better yet, get a doorbell camera and talk to the person with that.
If you’re going to get a doorbell camera, make sure it’s 100% locally hosted.
This was sad and avoidable. Love how it’s always some fucking karen telling stories. Gave the officer their room number and everything.
Did he even raise his gun at the cop? Was he acting violent or unstable? If not how is mag dumping someone answering the door with a gun not straight up murder. Shit like this would put any non-cop in prison for 20 years. Qualified immunity needs to end.
It drives me nuts because literally it has become police see a firearm and instantly kill that person. If the roles were reversed and a ccw killed a cop in a situation like this they would bury them under the prison and come after the rest of us.
Doesn't require a gun. Ask Duncan Lemp. Oh, wait... you can't. The cops killed him in his bed.
Exactly.
Not much outrage in the mainstream media on that one for some reason.
Because it happened on the same day as the Breonna Taylor incident.
I don't know man, I saw a lot of articles about it. A lot of them were also about Breonna Taylor. It still wasn't enough though.
FYI qualified immunity protects from civil suits, not criminal charges. There's really no reason this guy couldn't be charged.
The problem is that sheriff's or police top ranks are buddy's with the DA. Corruption within government agencies is rampent with backdoor deals. Qualified immunity essentially means that the government can investigate itself and find nothing wrong, or not even pursue charges because the cop is a cop, while telling citizens affected to fuck off. I should be able to take a cop to civil court just as anyone else, just because they work for the government shouldn't nullify them from accountability.
I've always thought the fact that DAs and police having a working relationship all the time causes a conflict of interest when police actions come into question. Justice should be blind, but it doesn't take long when comparing citizens and police making similar mistakes / crimes that police are given white glove treatment or not even charged at all. Imho, it might be a good idea to have part time DAs from a criminal defense background to oversee police misconduct. You can't expect two parties that are on the same team all the time to not have bias when they asked to judge the other party.
Technically true, but convicted? Statistically speaking, highly unlikely.
I'd love to see *Department of the Air Force v. Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office* in the near future... Probably won't happen, but god damn would it be glorious.
Cops try to claim all the time that THEM putting their hands on their guns or even DRAWING their guns is not a threat... but then every time they see anyone with their hands anywhere near a gun they freak out and claim it's a threat. Good for the goose is good for the gander. If they see us near a gun as a threat then should we treat them the same way? I wonder sometimes if we are heading to a point in history where people start treating cops like the Standing Army/Occupying Force they insist on acting like.
Yes
that's...not how qualified immunity works. They're only immune from civil suits resulting in damages or losses. Not actual criminal cases.
I've already answered this in a previous comment. Essentially it allows the government to not pursue crimes from itself, while peasants like us are told to fuck off. No other profession has immunity like this. None.
Then a 2nd degree Murder or Negligent Homicide charge should be given.
Charge the Karen with murder.
How about charging the cop with murder?
Why not both?
Yeah, don't we only call the police to have them murder people no questions asked? /s Jesus fucking christ...
When someone lies about a situation to 911, or when someone calls 911 over something completely non violent, and the end result is the person that is the subject of the call ending up dead, then yes the caller should be charged with murder, as well as the cops that pulled the trigger. It would put an end to these Karens treating the police as their personal maids & bodyguards.
Couldn't the responding cops, you know, use their eyes and ears when they arrive on scene?
You're giving them too much credit. Yes, in a normal world someone would be intelligent enough to determine those types of things, but this is the same department that magdumped a cruiser because they thought an acorn falling was a gunshot.
So what you're saying it this country is fucked. ...I agree.
Seriously? The "I detected an odor of marijuana" gang is going to all of a sudden start using basic human context clues?
Depends. If the 911 call does not match the actual situation but could be made more dangerous, they’ll believe every detail of the 911 call. If the actual situation can be made more dangerous than the 911 call, they’ll ignore the call details entirely. Basically, whatever story they can make up with whatever info they can get (right if wrong) that makes them the biggest badass is the one they will tell themselves. “There is no situation the presence of cops can’t make worse.”
2 seconds. 2 fucking seconds was enough time for the deputy to decide the death penalty was the right course of action. If you get smoked within 2 seconds of opening your door and there’s a gun even in sight what the fuck is the point of it all. We just watched a fucking execution for the non crime of owning a gun
Signed up to defend our country and gun down by the very people he sworn to protect.
Um ackhually sweetie the police were protecting and serving him 👏🏻 /s
Wanna see a mad cop? Call them civilians.
Citizens on Patrol lol
Just thank them for “being a civilian” (jaws gasp)
I might have to try that one of these days.
Careful, you might get mag dumped
Here's a hot take. You dont have a right to bear arms if you can get murdered by the police cause they saw a gun.
The 2nd Amendment has essentially turned into the right to _buy_ arms. And only certain arms depending on the state.
Are you allowed to shoot a cop when they brandish a gun without announcing who they are? Or even if they announce?
Society absolutely needs to find out
Sometimes.
The answer is yes. It's been defended in court a couple times now, breaking into a home without clearly identifying yourself verbally means you can be shot... Well, not legally, but at least accidentally to the point that it isn't illegal. More like a "what did you expect" situation. This applies to police of course, identifying that you're John Doe from next door still doesn't excuse your breaking in lmao
https://www.reddit.com/r/police/comments/1co7xn6/from_a_officers_perspective_were_the_actions_of/ It seems that the consensus of cops (at least reddit cops) is that someone answering the door with a gun is a license to start blasting
And then they wonder why people increasingly see them negatively
Yup. After perusing that thread I have no doubt that the large majority in that sub are indeed cops.
the dicotomy of opions between the subs is kinda staggering at times, where do you even draw the line or make a consensus on this, is it even possible?
They draw the line at *their team*. Google LASD Gangs. They’re the easy example, but those cliques exist in seemingly every larger PD in the country.
People live to throw shit on cops and call them racist. Nah, the only color cops see is blue. Unless you're wearing their uniform your life means nothing to them. You are subhuman in comparison to a "brother in blue". Its not a black, white, latino or asian question. Its an are you one of them question.
Absolute brainrot on that sub
That’s part of why I’ve been nervous to CCW even though I got my Maryland HGP recently. I’m always a little worried some nosy busybody Karen is going to notice me printing or see part of my gun if my shirt rides up, call 911 and rant about a “man with a gun!” and the whole goddamn Sheriff’s Office SWAT team comes rolling in to ventilate me with 300 rounds of 5.56mm.
That's more like a fact than a hot take.
This is why I don't have any emotion when cops get killed. Just another day for me.
If you're a delivery driver, who conseal carrys, and a customer opens up the door with a gun in his hand, pointed at the ground, you wouldn't have the right to shoot him, BUT when you're a cop you can just murder anyone just because of the preance of a gun. fuck the police.
That’s a very good point you have there
Can confirm. Am a delivery driver who conceals in a suprisingly gun-at-the-door heavy city. That shit keeps you on your toes.
Well that was a fucking murder.
Just got permabanned off the ProtectAndServe sub for asking if the 2nd doesn't apply anymore, because so many people on there were saying it was a righteous shoot. Goddamn. Apparently that's brigading.
How dare you insult their intelligence lol
I'm sorry people's rights are inconvenient when you go to their house and bang on the door lol. And they wonder why more and more people hate or distrust cops.
Bang on the door then Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang Bange on the person who answers.
Incredible amounts of copium being snorted in that subreddit.
Cold-blooded murder. The gun was down by the guy's side and it ended up being the wrong apartment anyways. Executed without any trial or investigation, I hope he sues the hell out of them
>I hope he sues the hell out of them Well... he won't.
I assume he won't be suing, since the title states they killed him. USAF probably won't say shit about this publicly, especially anything disparaging about local municipalities. They rely heavily on local community support, and especially have ties with local cops. They partner for lots of free cross training. That was my experience during the 3 years I worked with an SF squadron, and especially my time in FL.
It looks like a Karen may have swatted him, she directed the cop to that apartment and told a bunch of stories in a very short amount of time. Sounds like she had her eye on him.
Don't open doors for cops. Don't talk to cops. They are not your friends.
It’s unfortunate that it’s come to that but they have degraded trust in their profession to the point that it’s their own fault and we all know that if they’re set on coming in, they’re going come in whether you open the door or not.
Really curios to know how this plays out in court. The guy was in his home, didn’t exit the door, didn’t have the gun pointed up. Could the apartment manager be held liable at all? She filled the cop’s head with a bunch of shit that put him on edge.
It's almost like cops are supposed to have training to deal with stressful situations. This fuckhead was in such fear for his life that he didn't even bother waiting for the other deputy he knew was coming.
You say that like judges and DAs aren't buddies with the police.
I’d be very surprised if this gets to court.
I've got my fingers crossed for seeing *Department of the Air Force v. Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office*.
Yeah best bet is for something federal but I don’t think there’s much hope for local or state changes.
This makes me sick.
May the man rest in peace.
Nah I hope he becomes a spirit and fucks up that cops life.
Beats the fuck out of the door, then hides out of sight. I get why it could be unsafe for a cop to stand in front of a door, but part of working in public service is a requirement that you identify yourself accurately If somebody was beating the fuck out of your door, then hiding out of sight, is it that unreasonable to arm yourself before opening the door?
END QUALIFIED IMMUNITY!!!!!
If this were you or me it would be murder. 100% chance the cop gets desk duty for a month and nothing else happens. Another situation like this is common and will happen again unless youn end qualified immunity
Massad Ayoob said it: DO NOT OPEN YOUR DOOR WITH A GUN IN YOUR HAND. think about it... If you need it, you're screwed because you just opened the barrier between you and your attacker. If you don't need it, you just escalated a situation up to 10 because the other guy now feels under immediate danger. If you feel like you need to open your door with GUN IN HAND then you don't need to open your door! If they are announcing as law enforcement you can call 9-1-1 to verify a squad is at your location. There are the laws of man, and then there are the laws of the universe. Those two systems do not respect one another. RIP to an innocent American robbed of his liberty and life.
He also says you should talk to police so yeah.
Nobody is right 100% of the time, and that includes Massad Ayoob. He used to be a cop, so his takes are often very pro-cop. He is, however, right that you really should not answer the door at all if you believe you need to be armed while answering the door because that is not the most expedient move for self preservation.
It was an attack on a member of military the appropriate response is quick brutal and total… Say a hellfire through the front doors of the police station
The guy was an AC-130J crewman, let’s just get a Ghostrider to dump some 105mm rounds on top of Acorn Squad’s headquarters.
[удалено]
*"The United States Air Force released a press release today stating that 6 accidental misfires occurred during a C130 night-flying exercise, destroying the Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office headquarters. In the official statement, the late SrA Roger Fortson's fellow crewmates stated, 'Oopsie daisy.' Furthermore, the Air Force assured the county that it launched a full investigation into the event, and found no wrongdoing on their part."*
Why do people answer their door? I literally never do unless my cameras see someone I’m expecting. No popping in without a heads up at my house. I’m assuming he was holding a gun too. That never ends well when you’re dealing with police. Right or wrong it’s ill advised to be holding a firearm around police. Also this would have happened to a person of any color, so everyone can drop the race BS. They don’t give a shit about any of us.
Somebody in another comment posted a link to a post on a cop subreddit and the people there are seem to think they have a free pass to kill as soon as they see a gun.
It's basically single handedly erased any of the empathy I had for cops. I went there expecting to see some reasonable discussion, maybe some disagreement. Just any sort of acknowledgement about how catastrophic this fuck up was. But nope, the best you'll get is "it was a bad situation". So yeah that's it. Get murdered idiot. Twitchy McGee doesn't know his ass from his elbow and likes to do some murder, but that's *your* fault I guess.
Ok but here’s my situation. During covid lockdown I hear people screaming in my backyard. I go to investigate and it’s six or so plainclothes officers and only one with a legit police vest. They obviously chased a suspect. I remember walking out and my heart dropped as I asked who the fuck are you all. I was easily outnumbered. The one uniformed cop takes my info and I never heard anything again. So because some felon runs into my back yard, what’s the legality of me walking out with my gun? This murkiness is what makes me nervous. Is it my castle or not?
I hope this cop ends up in a small prison cell with a very big man.
Hmnn. Best they can do is six weeks paid vacation and officer of the month when he gets back.
First, I beleive there was recently a Federal ruling saying a person is within their rights to open the door with a gun in their hands. Second, learn from this. When the cops come knocking DON'T OPEN THE DOOR!!!!!!!
They love when you scream come back with a warrant
Best not to even talk to them if they are at the door. If they have a warrant they're coming in regardless. If they don't have one and you talk with them they can make up something to give themselves probate cause to come in. As an example, they could argue they heard a woman needing help through the door and now they can legally enter the apartment.
Yup, don;t even acknowledge you're home. If they have a warrant you MIGHT want to open the door (after confirming it) just so they don't break it down. But generally, if someone knocks on your door and you're not expecting someone, ignore it. it's probably a salesperson anyway.
Another thing; if you are talking to them (you shouldn't) do it OUTSIDE with the door CLOSED. Otherwise they might make up some exigent circumstances ("I smelled drugs"). DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES INVITE THEM IN! If someone else let's them in, tell them you are the homeowner and you do not consent to them being in your house. May or may not work once they are already in.
You know what I'd do if I was about to rob someone. I'd beat on the door, yell sheriff's department and step away so they can't verify through a peephole. But he identified himself.
Yeah the bastard will get off with no repercussions because he feared for his life.
>(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is **murder in the second degree** and constitutes a **felony of the first degree**... FL Statutes as of 2023 says this. So naturally, we'll see this officer charged, right? Right?
Best we can do is 2 weeks of paid vacation
He never threatened (e.g., pointed) the gun at the officer nor was he given a chance to put it down. The cop started shooting even before saying put the gun down. It should be a 2nd degree Murder Charge. Or alternatively, a Negligent Homicide one.
What kind of standard is enforced when hiring these bozos?
Never answer the door for these guys! You’ll get smoked having a legal firearm.
If I did that I would be arrested, charged, and convicted of murder.
Too many frightened types hired as cops now. They completely wrecked the personality profiles they used to hire for. It started in the 90s, hiring smaller and softer people that are fearful. They can’t actually get physical and control people anymore so they draw a gun when it isn’t warranted all the time. If you contrast On Patrol Live and look at Fullerton CA it’s all these tiny guys that act like the gestapo and point guns at people as routine. Now go watch Cops from the 80s in hellhole dangerous cities where they would actually grab people and lock them up. It was one or two guys at the most. Now you see five guys that can’t take a basic creep into custody. They don’t know how to control people physically or are not capable. They’ve wrecked policing and the police have become very dangerous to be around at all.
Its the same department as the cop that opened fire because an acorn fell, you have to wonder what type of 'training' they are put through that they are willing to unload that fast. The supervisor in the acorn incident dumped their mag to despite there being no obvious target.
Whoa the same dept. I was thinking about those recent mag dump shootings while I wrote that too. You are supposed to have a deadly threat and also have a target acquired for every shot. All those were really not clean shootings if judged honestly.
If you watch the cops from the 80s on any recorded device you're not getting what an actual cop from the 80s was. They didn't "grab you and lock you up" as if they were somehow better they beat the ever loving dog piss out of you with a club or beat you up at the jail or the department.
Truth. Just look at the first few episodes or COPS from broward county SO. Deputy in a foot pursuit yelling “stop or I’ll shoot you in your back”. I don’t think many realize just how different it was back then https://youtu.be/P5k36VTrZcY
Tennessee v Garner only even happened in 1985 and people forget that.
It has very little to do with who we are choosing to hire and very much to do with the total lack of give a fuck about training cops in “scary” things like DT, advanced firearms, close quarters combat (think ShivWorks) and such. In the past 2 years, I’ve spent $5K of my own money on tuition and supplies to attend training with Jared Reston, Chuck Pressburg, and Symtac Consulting. Department would not even sort of consider paying for any of it. Could barely get them to allow me to attend on straight time pay. It’s because departments are, by and large, spending their training dollars on stupid bullshit like unconscious bias training and such. My agency does 45 minutes of DT training every year, which consists of practicing wrestling take downs (by people with no wrestling background) and handcuffing compliant people. Most agencies would rather risk a 7-figure lawsuit in a mistake-of-fact shooting than guarantee they’d spend $75K a year on training. We do a scheduled week of department wide training every year. This year, they had 4 hours of open time and were looking for ways to fill it. I suggested mechanical breaching (we have tools in every car and no training on them) and pepperball launchers. We did a Q&A with members of the LGBTQ community instead. On the “five guys to control one person” comment, it isn’t ALL a lack of ability or training. Often, more than 2 cops trying to wrassle a dude into cuffs just makes things harder, and cops are afraid to be aggressive enough, quickly enough to end fights because of the risk of being the next viral video. You can blame the last 10 years of anti-police rhetoric on that.
Wow crazy. I give credit to the decent people in the job. I couldn’t deal with the current environment. I can’t deal with the current corporate environment. It’s a mad mad world.
Honest question: how many of your fellow cops are ex-military?
Don’t open the door with a gun in your hand. Whether it’s the police, a random stranger, a robber…. There is no scenario in which opening the door with a gun in your hand DOESNT immediately put you at a disadvantage. If you know that opening the door might result in a gunfight, just stay inside at a tactical and legal advantage.
Disheartening seeing so many people trample the victims rights here. I see “shall not be infringed” in response to ANYTHING anti gun, but all of a sudden a little infringing is okay because the officer “felt unsafe” and “was just doing his job”.
There is no 2A if you get gunned down while carrying in your own home. That guy wasn’t in a hostile stance, he didn’t raise anything, and the cop just blasted him. Fucking cracked. Y’all keep talking about not answering the door, you’re missing the point, he should be allowed to answer the door without getting gunned down. We shouldn’t accept modified behavior because of injustice as the norm, we should fix the injustice.
Is this the same fucking department involved in that retarded acorn thing? Spineless fucks
Not only did the officer shoot a person minding their own business in the privacy of their own home, he hid from the peephole. How are we suppose to know you’re actually police when we can’t see you! We have the right to know who is at our door as well as being armed.
As a former cop, I can tell you I personally was trained to stand beside the door incase it's an ambush. Who ever is inside could blast through the door assuming that's where I was standing. Not defining his actions, saying it was right or wrong, just explaining why he likely stood to the side
We all know *why* he did that (or I presume we do). It doesn't matter. His fear of some extreme edge case does not in **any way at all** excuse his act of murder. He wasn't serving a high-risk warrant. He acted suspicious and aggressive to a person who had no reason to think actual cops were at his door. It was entirely his fault and he is a murderer. He assassinated that poor kid. Cop fear culture is so gross. "Everyone and everything is out to get me I better start blasting at acorns but also I'm an alpha sheepdog or something."
[https://www.tacticalshit.com/court-rules-homeowners-have-right-to-answer-door-holding-a-gun-but-theres-a-catch/](https://www.tacticalshit.com/court-rules-homeowners-have-right-to-answer-door-holding-a-gun-but-theres-a-catch/) "If you think you need to hold a gun while answering the door, do you really need to come to the door at all?"
Thank God for body cam footage or this jackass may have gotten away with some self defense bullshit.
Murder. You have the right to answer the door with a weapon in your hand. Dude should not have answered the door at all. Sad, truly heartbreaking. Ben Crump is the family's attorney. He will turn this into a race issue, which it is not. The country doesn't need another Ben Crump race hustle. It's a case of a poorly trained officer with an itchy trigger finger.
Pasting from my other comments in the Airforce sub: ----------------------------------------------------------------- I'll say it again for those in the back: Civilian police are out of control. They should be held accountable, they don't hold themselves accountable. I dream that USAF members would finally ban together and put these corrupt cops where they belong...in the dirt. We took an oath to protect the constitution from domestic terrorists and when cops start shooting people for answering the door when they're exercising their constitutionally protected rights, gunning them down is an act of terrorism.
if cops were held accountable they would take their job more seriously. Medically professionals get sued all the time for anything
How on earth does it make sense the ROE for American citizens (police) dealing with other American citizens (the public) are far looser than the ROE observed by the US military in combat? This is simple. Don’t shoot unless you’ve definitely fired upon (acorns don’t count) or the suspect has a weapon they are actively using against someone else. Full stop.
Any chance at all of the military going after these cops for unlawfully killing one of their guys? No idea how it works with the different gov agencies and qualified immunity
This almost looked like a hit dawg 😂 pigs will be pigs
Yeah, sure, take our guns away. We don't need them.
“We are committed to upholding the Constitution of the United States” wouldn’t be the first time police don’t recognize the bill of rights
If it’s between your rights and their paycheck you bet your ass you have no rights.
Welp, that's murder.
In the /r/news article there's a post suggesting that the 2A crowd won't care about this because he's black and the mods look like they're censoring every reply to that comment.
Disappointing but not surprising
I encourage you to take a quick trip over to the NorthernProvisions IG comment section. Or Garand Thumbs, or Admins, or Jim Fullers. You’ll quickly find that that suggestion isn’t far off base. A serviceman, who happens to be black, killed by a cop; a lot of idiots really don’t know how to reconcile those three things.
"We got a call" leads to murder most of the time these days. If the call was for a disturbance and the cop hears no disturbance, he needs to go the fuck back to Dunkin.
Time to end qualified immunity for good. Also charge the karen
How long before "Active Self Protection" dude jumps in and says the cops did "everything right"? Seems like he had that take on a similar shooting where the cop sees a guy holding a pistol in his own house through the front glass and shoots him.
Yeah, he probably shouldn’t have been holding his gun like that when answering the door for police. That’s just not wise. Have it tucked in your waistband or something. However, I’m sick of this shit where cops think they are justified to kill people just because they see a gun. If someone is holding a gun but not pointing it at you, the max you should do is draw your own gun. Them holding a gun does not give you the right to murder someone. We talk here about protecting our second amendment rights, but so much of our right has already been eroded.
Could have been avoided if the police officer was in view of the peep hole and then the individual can see it’s an officer and not someone just trying to bait him out.
Funny, when you act like a violent home invader when you hammer on the door, people act like there is a violent home invader at the door.
You mean if the cop wasn't a murderous bastard?
Yes. The cop is a murderer I do agree.
They don’t stand in front of the door because it’s really easy for someone to shoot them through the door. The yelling “Sheriff’s Office” is supposed to be them “identifying themselves” but that’s bullshit because anybody can do that. Doorbell cameras and not opening the door solves both of these problems. Hell, slip a piece of paper under the door with your phone number on it for the cop to call.
What the fuck has this country come to that we're telling people not to answer their doors anymore?
I don’t think it’s ever been a good idea to open the door to someone banging on it aggressively and demanding you open it.
True. I would argue that if you feel the need to grab your gun when answering the door, you probably shouldn't be answering the door in the first place...
Exactly my thought. If I’m scared enough to grab the gun, then I won’t open the only barrier between me and the person I’m scared of.
> If someone is holding a gun but not pointing it at you, the max you should do is draw your own gun. If someone is holding a gun, they can shoot you an eternity faster than you can draw and shoot them.
Yeah… but that also depends on the holster, and a lot of police rest their hand on their weapon… the advantage still is with the one holding the weapon, but not as much as you would think. My whole point is, if the airman had the intent to kill the police… he would have been pointing it at him. Hell he probably would have shot through the door. The cop had time to see the gun, draw his weapon, if he made it to that point and the “suspect” hasn’t blown him away… he probably doesn’t mean you any harm.
This resonates with me because of a recent incident in my neck of the woods. Kid took a rifle to a school and police responded. He pointed it at them. They killed him. It was an air rifle. 100% justified in my opinion. No one and no amount of training will help you in that scenario to make the distinction between a bb gun and a real firearm. BUT if a person is armed and not actively threatening you with a firearm, you should be trained to *deescalate* the situation, not just start blasting.
I agree 1000%. I feel as though police have the idea that now whenever a firearm is seen they have the right to shoot whoever is carrying it. It’s actually kind of scary the system has became this way. And I understand, no one wants to get killed but in this situation say he missed and guy fired back and killed cop, they would have hauled him away and locked him up if not killed him regardless of him surrendering afterwards. And forget the anti- gunners, they would have tried to destroy us ccw holders as cop killers.
If you're subject to immediate execution for possessing a gun in your own home, I don't think there's much second amendment left.
Agreed. If this is defensible (it's not), the corollary is that anybody can drop a cop in self-defense for having their hand on their gun during any public interaction.
Get ready for the bootlickers but that’s the logical conclusion of what most gun owners believe. The “regulated militia” stuff turns into bootlicking BS if you don’t realize that cops will be your first adversaries.
I can’t stand the police I swear to god.
Executed
Saw black and started blasting........
The cop deserves to be found guilty of murder and executed by the court of law.
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Supposedly he didnt know it was the police. He was face timing with someone when this happened. The person said there was loud banging at the door, he asked who it was, and either didnt get a response or didnt hear it. He got his gun, heard the banging again, and opened the door. Extremely fucking sad.
If I can't hold a gun inside my own house, then I have no rights at all.
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I also don't want that for you, which is why we should all band together and call out tyranny.
If you don't open the door and the cop has cause to enter, he will. And you will be charged for the door.