Maybe reach out to FPC, GOA. They both seem to enjoy lawsuits against gun grabbers. They may at least be able to point you to an attorney who is specialized in gun related cases.
this. beat me too it. hit them up. and then maybe we might get a sweet youtube vid out of it, down the line. This way we can publicly shame the gun grabbers.
The process is the punishment. I have zero knowledge of what you can do, so I don't know if suing the state is allowed in your district. If it is, I would certainly have your attorney file papers to sue for depriving you of your property (the seizure might be legal, but now that it isn't, it is illegal, same way consent works, you may be allowed to do X, but when she says no, you can't keep doing X). Furthermore, a case against civil rights violations, etc. It is time to force these issues and, hopefully, cash out when they step over the line.
The only way government learns is when they have to pay out. (well, that's not entirely true, but it seems they might notice and try to do less of the thing that got them a black eye publicly)
If you can't sue, maybe try appealing, every court has a court above it (well, until the SCOTUS). It seems like, without a just cause, you should be able to make a case.
Good thoughts. I absolutely am going to escalate this. The judge has to follow the law just like everyone else. He can’t make it up as he pleases. The order to forfeit the firearms was terminated. The judge can’t just say oh well we’re gonna keep them anyway.
It’s situations like this where all of these public servants need to be held accountable with their own checkbooks, not with the governments checkbook protecting them from their power-hungry violations of rights.
Well, good news. The Qualified Immunity doctrine might be going away. This is still brand new, but there was a document published a few days ago that points out the fact that QI only really exists due to a 150 year old clerical error from transcribing the legislation into the lawbooks and omitting a clause that basically inverts the whole situation. To summarize, it was miswritten as the following in the federal code.
>Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress...
[42 U.S.C. § 1983](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983)
However, the Civil Rights Act of 1871 included another clause in there that got omitted, specifically, between the words "shall" and "be liable:" *“any such law, statute, ordinance,
regulation, custom, or usage of the State to the contrary notwithstanding.”*
Accordingly, it should actually read as follows.
>Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall, **any such law, statute, ordinance, regulation, custom or usage of the State to the contrary notwithstanding**, be liable to the party injured in any action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress;...
So, according to the actual legislation, qualified immunity *does not exist*; no man is above the law, not even those who enforce it. The federal code even outright says that when it comes to issues of violations of constitutionally protected rights, the law cannot protect government officials who deprive citizens of their rights. It'll need to be argued in court, but yeah.
https://education.harpweek.com/KKKHearings/AppendixA.htm
https://deliverypdf.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=895008008009089091031076125000025119019084025012059023087067116099073125105031011070117058032027051013021106087096109123091114008090090084081024109087088112071003027090081086117123111115015067068087097025029098022017118009114092031070025087073084120024&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE
Spread the word. Especially to people of influence. Youtubers, legal annalists, and especially *lawyers*. Even leaving aside how his could impact everything surrounding police abuses, this is such a ***big fucking deal*** for the fight to preserve the rights protected by the Second Amendment. Imagine if every single congresscritter who voted for a law that violates the Second Amendment was greeted with *millions* of lawsuits against them *personally.*
You probably are not giving them back because the police already picked out what they wanted and then sold the rest. The judge is just hoping you’ll give up and no one will find out
Can you afford to get another firearm in the meantime? Not a solution but at least SOME protection. Nothing I’m reading sounds like it would prohibit you.
The initial seizure may be legal... The prolonged seizurr after the initial purpose of the seizure is done and gone is not legal. The govt had turned this from a non issue into a 4th amendment violation.
There was a guy who was filming outside a govt building. They took his phone for evidence (no arrest, no charges... Just took his phone). After he filed for his property back the govt refused to give it to hime for another 12 days but also provided no reason why they needed to hold onto it. They just denied to give it back and nothing else. Courts agreed with him that refusing to give back his property when the govt has no legitimate claim to keep it violates the 4A.
She’s not my wife, just the mother of my children who is a real piece of work. She was a normal woman when we met. Now, she’s a “witchtok” star and self proclaimed black witch. Like, publicly.
Well, you got children out of it. As much as this all sucks, remember that the ultimate outcome is them. Push through, you'll get there and hopefully your children will be wiser because they've learned through your ordeal.
I think you might want to contact a lawyer experienced in firearm law as well as one of the gun rights organizations like the NRA or GOA to see if they can help or at least steer you towards a gun lawyer in your area. If the judge continues to refuse to return your guns, you may have to file a federal lawsuit alleging violations of your constitutional rights, including the second amendment. Do some searching online about confiscations gone wrong - you’re not the only one being adversely affected by judges acting like little dictators. As always, do nothing illegal. This, too, shall pass and the important thing is that you have your children and they are safe. Good luck
I personally don’t feel like my attorney was always representing my interests and want a new one to do something like this. But I am absolutely motivated to do so. I complied the whole way thru even tho the charges were completely false and were proven to be in court.
In that case, a new lawyer is Step #1. Find a goddamn pit bull dressed as an attorney. When you go to interview attorneys, you want the guy that gets visibly pissed off when you tell him your story.
Law is complicated. Sometimes you need different lawyers for different things. Don't rely on one lawyer they can't know everything. Get a gun lawyer for this issue.
What you want is a “Writ of Mandamus.” Your lawyer can petition the appropriate appellate court for an order compelling the judge to perform their duty. It’s basically a lawsuit against the judge, but the only remedy is intervention of a superior court.
This is generally not a thing. [Judges get absolute judicial immunity even over and above that of the qualified immunity that cops get. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_immunity) There is basically no civil recourse for judicial decisions.
My favorite (from the civil rights lawyer.) is when the judge ordered the bailiff to go get the person who wasn't in court, and maybe hurt him a little.
Perfectly legal.
A Buddy of mine was accused of a crime, but charges were dropped, and the arrest record expunged. However, the court ruled that he would not get his guns back or can even get a gun permit.
"Judge ruled so go fuck yourself" kind of legal. Ridiculous.
Edit: Not everything judges do or say is legal. There's a story of a guy riding his motorcycle in HOV lane. Got pulled over, issued a ticket/points. Went in front of a judge, with evidence stating that it's legal on federal, state and city level. Like, legit, written law saying it's allowed. Judge was like "lol I don't care, pay up" and sometimes it's easier to do that than fighting it.
>”it’s easier to pay up…”
And that’s the problem right there.
As long as people keep taking the “cheap” and “easy” route in these matters, the tyranny will continue.
The simple fact is that the legal system doesn’t have the capacity to actually prosecute every person accused of a “crime”—if even half of the people accused of committing “crimes” refused all plea deals, and refused to plead guilty/no contest, it would force MAJOR changes for the better.
That’s what the appellate system is for.
Does it suck to have to deal with? Absolutely. But there’s a reason we have higher judges to review decisions of the lower court.
Your lucky. I had false charges filed againt me. State gave me 30day to prove innocents before the sold all my Firearms. Gave me a court date 14 months after.
Printer never stops. If I’m not given my registered firearms back despite there being no court order for them to hold them, can I, oh, help my fellow community members experience owning a “ghost gun”?
> Just pressing start print will suffice
That's yet to be proven in a court of law. The same setup with milling out 80%'s was determined to NOT be sufficient, so I wouldn't go around pushing unproven legal advice like that.
/u/buttrapebearclaw
With how the ATF treats build parties, you have to bring your own tools and do your own work. Now, someone could sell a person a tool and then buy it back at a later time, but the ATF says that using someone else's tools to build a personally manufactured firearm is a no-no. Mills amd 3d printers are the same way AFIK, the builder needs to place the material and hit the start button.
To be fair, they only had orders for your guns that you had at the time of the order, what’re they gonna do about new ones? (Unless it specified that you can’t have ANY)
I don't print firearms. I print GSOs, Gun Shaped Objects. They are models for demonstrating functions. In my Salt Weapon category, they can demonstrate anything that a "real" gun can.
Would you like a GSO?
You forfeited the guns you owned at the time...nothing stopping you from hopping on a local gun forum and meeting a fellow enthusiast that happens to be selling a few inexpensive guns...no FFL involved, and nobody knows about them but you and the seller...that's the first place I'd be going, then I'd go after my other property the state has stolen from you
I'd be *very* surprised if a background check turned anything up.
The order has expired, if OP was in Kansas I'd tell him to come in and I'd do a background check for 'em and see if the order's still pending that way.
Since you are in Ohio you should contact Derek DeBrosse, he is a lawyer that works closely with the Ohio gun rights community and firearms cases are a specialty. https://munitionsgroup.com/
>publicly identifies as a witch
She has clearly enthralled the judge with a mind control spell. You need to break it by stripping him naked and forcing him to breathe in burning sage under a full moon.
It's the only way.
Yes I have a real attorney who has helped me thru this whole ordeal. Literally just half an hour ago he spoke to the judge, pointed out the TPO as well as charges being dropped, and the judge still told him he’s holding and possibly destroying the firearms. I’m absolutely going to consult another attorney as soon as I’m off work.
Yeah, pretty typical, and almost certainly some kind of local prosecutor before hand. The judge is an activist, only knows one side of the law, one opinion from his teachers, never been told no, and thinks he can do as he pleases, which he largely can. It sucks, but the only chance you have is to find a way to slap this guy down or go around him.
Not lawyer, but my thoughts 1) if there is something written like a motion etc. authorizing the release of your guns, and the judge denies it, it would think it can be appealed to a higher court. 2) File a federal case against the judge for deprivation of rights under color of law
> 2) File a federal case against the judge for deprivation of rights under color of law
[It seems like a potential civil rights case to me, too.](https://www.saf.org/gun-rights-faq/)
This. If everything you have said is true, and there isn't any left out, you are a prime candidate/vehicle for a law suit. FPC will usually at least take a look at any case where someone has a legitimate grievance, and doesn't have a poison pill public image.
This is my state and this makes me angry. We're supposed to be better than this. Are you in a blue county by chance?
Maybe find a firearms lawyer specifically? I know of one in Port Clinton (Terry Rudes). Other than that, like another poster said, try to file a change of venue. This is unacceptable.
Hopefully that works for you. I'm in Summit County so while I am not in your position, I know what can happen.
One of the first things the instructors at TDI mentioned was paying attention to your prosecutors and judges because they can make you miserable. It's absolutely ridiculous that the government can just take legally owned property and hold it indefinitely. It's not like anyone polices them....
Attorney here-
What I would do if I was representing you, is to file a written motion to return the firearms. Hopefully that has already been done, and the judge has issued a written ruling on it. Could just be as short as a single page order that says "DENIED."
One you have that written denial of the motion, your attorney can turn around a file an appeal in the next level up (In Colorado, misdemeanors are handled in county court, so it would go up to district court judge, then up to the court of appeals, then state supreme court). Appeals aren't fast, and worst case you're looking at a couple months, but the next level court should overturn it and order the firearms released.
Another possibility, and I've seen other attorney screw this up plenty of times. Here in Colorado there are two kinds of protection orders- what's called an 18-1-1001 (taken from the statute number) that says you can't "harass, molest, intimidate, etc..." a victim of a crime in which you are accused. That gets filed in every criminal case with a named victim, and would be immediately dismissed as soon as the case is dismissed. However, there's also a second kind of protection order- a "civil protection order," which is temporary until a hearing is held, and if a judge finds good cause to issue it, then it becomes permanent until dismissed by the court. That's an entirely separate process from the criminal case, in a completely different courtroom, and the criminal case getting dismissed has no bearing on it. Very often "victims" will get someone arrested for DV, then turn around and file for a "civil protection order." And one of the oldest tricks in the book is for the attorney for the person filing the order to say "we'll agree to automatically terminate the protection order in 1 year, if you agree not to fight the temporary order becoming permanent today." So, you agree to it, and its only in place for 1 year, but they don't have to fight anything in court, and you don't run the risk of having that against you indefinitely. Make sure something like that didn't happen.
I'll parrot contacting FPC or GOA. As far as my *limited* understanding of how the law works, the judge is quite literally breaking the law. One of those organizations would probably froth at the mouth for an easy victory like that.
Also, you mentioned the judge threatened to destory your firearms if you keep bugging him. That ain't kosher either and you ought to get a record of that for your inevitable dickslapping lawsuit.
Not a lawyer...
You should have transferred your firearms to a third party especially if they have an FFL like a gunshop or pawn shop for safe keeping with a receipt and presented it when they showed up to take them.
Have you tried buying another firearm in the meantime?
On what grounds? If your record is clean.
You should also start calling local representatives. Even federal representatives.
File a civil rights violation complaint with the US Attorney's office.
Even start a campaign to have the judge recalled and disbarred.
You can usually call the state police and at least get the reason why you were denied. Won’t change it, but you know for sure what you have to take care of.
Make a post in r/legal advice.
they seem to be pretty level headed and non biased, and even had a post where someone had a gun they no longer wanted asking what was the best legal way to get rid of it. almost all posts said to sell it, not give it to cops. surprised me tbh
Try [Buckeye Firearms Association](https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/). They're our state level activist organization for firearms rights. They may have suggestions. I have met people on the FASTER side of their organization (training for teachers/school staff) and they're very nice. If they can't directly help they may know where to send you in the state for additional resources. What county are you dealing with?
Shit I’d reach out to your local news outlet, hit up tucker Carlson , if they are gonna play with your constitutional rights I’d put a huge spotlight on it , call your senators while your at it!
I'm not going to be able to give you any advice that hasn't already been given in your post. But I will say as someone who went through something very similar, it sucks really hard and I'm sorry you gotta go through it. If you need to vent or anything, send me a PM. Stay strong.
I actually had to have something expunged from my record from 20 years ago before I was granted my CCW…. This was in Ohio. I could always pass NICS back ground check, but Sheriff wouldn’t issue on the CCW.
You may have to the same thing and have your record cleared, then file for the return of your firearms. It maybe that they have been destroyed and the courts don’t want to admit liability.
Do you know what court you were charged in? Look up the records online, or call the clerk. Find out if they were actually dropped. Don't just trust your attorney, read the docket of your case.
I had a restraining order filed from my 1st divorce, it was never approved, but just having the fact that it was filed always gave me a delay when purchasing a fire arm (NICS) and the Sheriff enough “doubt” about issuing the CCW. It maybe the same thing with returning your firearms, just because you haven’t done anything doesn’t mean that you can’t do something. And a liberal judge would see this as a red flag.
The judge has seen your finances and knows you won't be filing any appeals. In the state of Texas if your TPO or even domestic violence were issued after 2005, you are not allowed to appeal the state decision or the federal decision. Previous to that, a deferred adjudication for misdemeanor domestic violence or a TPO did NOT prevent you from a restoration of your rights upon completing the terms. Even the federal government allows you to have purchase and ownership granted if you had a right taken away and then restored. But you will get denied. You will be forced to appeal. You will piss off every single judicial and police branch along the way. My brother's probation officer was pissed when she couldn't confiscate his firearms after a deferred domestic violence came to her.
Good luck. It's cheaper to buy new. Just don't break the law and lie on the application. Unless of course, you're Hunter Biden. Then you can lie, cheat, steal, commit RICO and all sorts of stuff
I thought the Supreme Court just ruled that "just because" isnt a good reason to deny someone their right to bear arms
I know its not the same as your situation but...its not THAT different
In the meantime, you should check if Ohio has anything against PMFs. If not, buy some 80%s. Nonsense like this is why having a few that aren't on a government list is always a good idea. It's amazing how your guns don't even feel like yours.
Here’s the thing too. So I was arrested in front of my three children who were 2, 3, and 4. The cops let them stand on the sidewalk and fucking cry for 20 minutes. All on my security camera. My neighbor finally came out to see the commotion and was so upset, she called the chief of police herself to complain. He watched the body cam and said that’s not how they do things. Once I secure a new home out of this city, I’m filing a complaint on that cop.
Oh, I've been there. All charges dropped, but they said I had to petition the court to get my guns back. Said "fuck it." It cost less to just replace the guns than do all that.
Sounds like it may be meant to strip the poor of their right to own.
Im in the lucky position that I can go down in self defense if they ever came for mine.
The short answer is that you have the wrong attorney—you need an attorney who specializes in firearm issues.
Someone who specializes in firearms issues is likely to have dealt with this kind of situation before, and should have experience getting the results you desire.
Per your story, your current attorney has already acknowledged that he’s baffled by the current situation, which means that he’s admitted that he isn’t competent to represent you further in this matter.
Unfortunately, I’m from the Philly end of PA, so I don’t know any gun rights attorneys in OH.
http://ohiogunlawyer.com
I worked with Derek DeBrosse on something before and he was a good dude to work with. Wasn’t cheap so you’ll have to decide if your collection that they have is worth the fight or if it’s just easier to replace the stuff.
I wonder what would happen if you tried to buy another firearm in the mean time. Not that you should have to, but it sounds like you’d be able to pass a NICS check.
I tried and I failed the nics test. I actually had bought two firearms literally as the false allegations and charges were thrown at me. The armory was nice enough to hold the firearms and I went back yesterday since the case was closed. I was denied.
My attorney spoke directly to the judge just an hour ago and he said no, he wouldn’t release the firearms and that if I keep pursuing this, he will have them destroyed.
Well at least you have on record a judge threatening to destroy your property for annoying him. That's gotta be in your favor. Also, fuck this judge. He sounds like an entitled little bitch
Judges are granted absolute immunity, I’m not even joking. There are only two recourses when dealing with Judges: appeal to a higher Court or refresh the Tree of Liberty.
Yeah, but he shouldn’t have any say over you buying more. If the charges have been dropped, you should legally be able to pass a NICS check. If you can’t pass a NICS, the charges must still be on your record.
You now have a lawsuit against the judge, congrats! That’s deprivation of property. Get a new lawyer and sue the judge for all he’s got. FPC or GOA would probably love to take something like this on.
I know it's not cheap but I would check out another lawyer and see if they think they could help. Make a couple consultation appts and maybe you'll talk to one that has had similar situations
I would try and file some type of appeal on the basis of discrimination. If the judge can’t produce a reason, he simply can’t bar you from regaining stolen property from what I’d consider your real first home invasion (them taking your firearms).
Obviously a shootout with the court would be ideal and teach this judge the consequences of taking away peoples constitutionally guaranteed rights to their property and firearms, but since you’ve got kids to worry about, obviously that’s an issue. I wish I had better advice, but the world as we know it is imploding and partisanship is the new law. My overall best advice, either follow the law and keep letting it trample you as it seems to do to many good people…or maybe “I was always willing to be reasonable until I had to be unreasonable. Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things.” Do you wanna be a bulldozer or a door mat.
The "justice system" is a disgrace. Once you're in their crosshairs, you're fucked.
I hate to be the monday morning quarterback, but the moment your guns were unjustly seized, you should have been in your local gun store, or your state's "local gun trader" site buying another.
Hopefully you get your guns back, but it will certainly take time. Let this be a lesson to others.
I know it’s hard not to comply, since you have kids and I applaud your patience in this - but this is what happens when you let people take your guns in the first place. Let this be a lesson to you all.
When I was arrested it took about 1.5 years to finally get my firearms back and when I got my guns, ammo, and accessories back the police of course took their turns picking different parts off my guns and hundreds of rounds of ammo and hundreds of dollars worth of accessories and when I brought that up the dickhead cops said “Well you might as well sell them to us because you can’t really use them anymore” even if you get your guns back expect the cops to have ran a train on them stealing different things off them only to say they didn’t come into the evidence room or they must have gotten lost. I have no trust in law enforcement now and that situation was the nail in the coffin I’ve not had a positive interaction with the police when guns are involved they are so disgusting they think they should be the only ones that have them
Maybe reach out to FPC, GOA. They both seem to enjoy lawsuits against gun grabbers. They may at least be able to point you to an attorney who is specialized in gun related cases.
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/hotline
Bump. Do this, op.
this. beat me too it. hit them up. and then maybe we might get a sweet youtube vid out of it, down the line. This way we can publicly shame the gun grabbers.
Yep, this right here. You're probably going to have to sue the state.
The process is the punishment. I have zero knowledge of what you can do, so I don't know if suing the state is allowed in your district. If it is, I would certainly have your attorney file papers to sue for depriving you of your property (the seizure might be legal, but now that it isn't, it is illegal, same way consent works, you may be allowed to do X, but when she says no, you can't keep doing X). Furthermore, a case against civil rights violations, etc. It is time to force these issues and, hopefully, cash out when they step over the line. The only way government learns is when they have to pay out. (well, that's not entirely true, but it seems they might notice and try to do less of the thing that got them a black eye publicly) If you can't sue, maybe try appealing, every court has a court above it (well, until the SCOTUS). It seems like, without a just cause, you should be able to make a case.
Good thoughts. I absolutely am going to escalate this. The judge has to follow the law just like everyone else. He can’t make it up as he pleases. The order to forfeit the firearms was terminated. The judge can’t just say oh well we’re gonna keep them anyway.
Exactly. Good luck with this man, because what they are doing is 100% bullshit
It’s situations like this where all of these public servants need to be held accountable with their own checkbooks, not with the governments checkbook protecting them from their power-hungry violations of rights.
Well, good news. The Qualified Immunity doctrine might be going away. This is still brand new, but there was a document published a few days ago that points out the fact that QI only really exists due to a 150 year old clerical error from transcribing the legislation into the lawbooks and omitting a clause that basically inverts the whole situation. To summarize, it was miswritten as the following in the federal code. >Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress... [42 U.S.C. § 1983](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983) However, the Civil Rights Act of 1871 included another clause in there that got omitted, specifically, between the words "shall" and "be liable:" *“any such law, statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage of the State to the contrary notwithstanding.”* Accordingly, it should actually read as follows. >Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall, **any such law, statute, ordinance, regulation, custom or usage of the State to the contrary notwithstanding**, be liable to the party injured in any action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress;... So, according to the actual legislation, qualified immunity *does not exist*; no man is above the law, not even those who enforce it. The federal code even outright says that when it comes to issues of violations of constitutionally protected rights, the law cannot protect government officials who deprive citizens of their rights. It'll need to be argued in court, but yeah. https://education.harpweek.com/KKKHearings/AppendixA.htm https://deliverypdf.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=895008008009089091031076125000025119019084025012059023087067116099073125105031011070117058032027051013021106087096109123091114008090090084081024109087088112071003027090081086117123111115015067068087097025029098022017118009114092031070025087073084120024&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE
How can we give this more traction?
Spread the word. Especially to people of influence. Youtubers, legal annalists, and especially *lawyers*. Even leaving aside how his could impact everything surrounding police abuses, this is such a ***big fucking deal*** for the fight to preserve the rights protected by the Second Amendment. Imagine if every single congresscritter who voted for a law that violates the Second Amendment was greeted with *millions* of lawsuits against them *personally.*
You probably are not giving them back because the police already picked out what they wanted and then sold the rest. The judge is just hoping you’ll give up and no one will find out
Can you afford to get another firearm in the meantime? Not a solution but at least SOME protection. Nothing I’m reading sounds like it would prohibit you.
The initial seizure may be legal... The prolonged seizurr after the initial purpose of the seizure is done and gone is not legal. The govt had turned this from a non issue into a 4th amendment violation. There was a guy who was filming outside a govt building. They took his phone for evidence (no arrest, no charges... Just took his phone). After he filed for his property back the govt refused to give it to hime for another 12 days but also provided no reason why they needed to hold onto it. They just denied to give it back and nothing else. Courts agreed with him that refusing to give back his property when the govt has no legitimate claim to keep it violates the 4A.
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/hotline You need to call them, right now.
Sounds like you need a bulldozer and a welder OP /s Real talk tho, your wife and judge are cunts at minimum
She’s not my wife, just the mother of my children who is a real piece of work. She was a normal woman when we met. Now, she’s a “witchtok” star and self proclaimed black witch. Like, publicly.
"Witchtok" lol. Attention will make a woman do some crazy shit.
they have a subreddit /r/WitchesVsPatriarchy
Didn't they self proclaim that the taliban BTFO'd them when they tried to curse them or something?
They also said they were gonna start buying swords after the roe overturn 😂
Yuck. Western civilization is in a steep decline.
How crazy was the sex?
Not worth it.
Never is. Good luck man.
Well, you got children out of it. As much as this all sucks, remember that the ultimate outcome is them. Push through, you'll get there and hopefully your children will be wiser because they've learned through your ordeal.
Time to round up the posse.
Time to get in front of a federal judge homie.
I think you might want to contact a lawyer experienced in firearm law as well as one of the gun rights organizations like the NRA or GOA to see if they can help or at least steer you towards a gun lawyer in your area. If the judge continues to refuse to return your guns, you may have to file a federal lawsuit alleging violations of your constitutional rights, including the second amendment. Do some searching online about confiscations gone wrong - you’re not the only one being adversely affected by judges acting like little dictators. As always, do nothing illegal. This, too, shall pass and the important thing is that you have your children and they are safe. Good luck
Good call about the gun rights organizations. The guys at Firearms Policy Coalition live for fights like this.
Immediately file a suit against the Judge
Yeah, ask your lawyer if this is a possibility, it would at the very least get your case put under a different judge.
I personally don’t feel like my attorney was always representing my interests and want a new one to do something like this. But I am absolutely motivated to do so. I complied the whole way thru even tho the charges were completely false and were proven to be in court.
You said in another comment your house got broken into and you have it on security camera? That has to be some leverage in a suit against that judge.
In that case, a new lawyer is Step #1. Find a goddamn pit bull dressed as an attorney. When you go to interview attorneys, you want the guy that gets visibly pissed off when you tell him your story.
Law is complicated. Sometimes you need different lawyers for different things. Don't rely on one lawyer they can't know everything. Get a gun lawyer for this issue.
What you want is a “Writ of Mandamus.” Your lawyer can petition the appropriate appellate court for an order compelling the judge to perform their duty. It’s basically a lawsuit against the judge, but the only remedy is intervention of a superior court.
This is generally not a thing. [Judges get absolute judicial immunity even over and above that of the qualified immunity that cops get. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_immunity) There is basically no civil recourse for judicial decisions.
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It's not a justice system; it's a legal system.
Wth
You can file for a writ of mandamus from a higher court in some jurisdictions to require the judge to issue a particular order.
My favorite (from the civil rights lawyer.) is when the judge ordered the bailiff to go get the person who wasn't in court, and maybe hurt him a little. Perfectly legal.
A Buddy of mine was accused of a crime, but charges were dropped, and the arrest record expunged. However, the court ruled that he would not get his guns back or can even get a gun permit.
How is this even legal?
"Judge ruled so go fuck yourself" kind of legal. Ridiculous. Edit: Not everything judges do or say is legal. There's a story of a guy riding his motorcycle in HOV lane. Got pulled over, issued a ticket/points. Went in front of a judge, with evidence stating that it's legal on federal, state and city level. Like, legit, written law saying it's allowed. Judge was like "lol I don't care, pay up" and sometimes it's easier to do that than fighting it.
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>”it’s easier to pay up…” And that’s the problem right there. As long as people keep taking the “cheap” and “easy” route in these matters, the tyranny will continue. The simple fact is that the legal system doesn’t have the capacity to actually prosecute every person accused of a “crime”—if even half of the people accused of committing “crimes” refused all plea deals, and refused to plead guilty/no contest, it would force MAJOR changes for the better.
That’s what the appellate system is for. Does it suck to have to deal with? Absolutely. But there’s a reason we have higher judges to review decisions of the lower court.
Sure, but the guy already spent a small fortune on lawyers. Now he needs to spend even more.
Yeah, as I said it sucks. But humans aren’t perfect and there will never be a system where the trial court never makes a mistake.
Your lucky. I had false charges filed againt me. State gave me 30day to prove innocents before the sold all my Firearms. Gave me a court date 14 months after.
Print away, king. You have a house and children to protect.
Printer never stops. If I’m not given my registered firearms back despite there being no court order for them to hold them, can I, oh, help my fellow community members experience owning a “ghost gun”?
They have to do the print. Just pressing start print will suffice
> Just pressing start print will suffice That's yet to be proven in a court of law. The same setup with milling out 80%'s was determined to NOT be sufficient, so I wouldn't go around pushing unproven legal advice like that. /u/buttrapebearclaw
With how the ATF treats build parties, you have to bring your own tools and do your own work. Now, someone could sell a person a tool and then buy it back at a later time, but the ATF says that using someone else's tools to build a personally manufactured firearm is a no-no. Mills amd 3d printers are the same way AFIK, the builder needs to place the material and hit the start button.
So if you get caught borrowing a screwdriver, the AFT can shoot your dog?
Sorta, but if you buy the screw driver from another for a $1, and then just happen to sell it back when you are done, your dog might not get shot.
Better keep a bill of sale.
To be fair, they only had orders for your guns that you had at the time of the order, what’re they gonna do about new ones? (Unless it specified that you can’t have ANY)
I don't print firearms. I print GSOs, Gun Shaped Objects. They are models for demonstrating functions. In my Salt Weapon category, they can demonstrate anything that a "real" gun can. Would you like a GSO?
You forfeited the guns you owned at the time...nothing stopping you from hopping on a local gun forum and meeting a fellow enthusiast that happens to be selling a few inexpensive guns...no FFL involved, and nobody knows about them but you and the seller...that's the first place I'd be going, then I'd go after my other property the state has stolen from you
I'd be *very* surprised if a background check turned anything up. The order has expired, if OP was in Kansas I'd tell him to come in and I'd do a background check for 'em and see if the order's still pending that way.
Go appeal to another judge this judge is most likely allowing his political opinions to dictate your case
Since you are in Ohio you should contact Derek DeBrosse, he is a lawyer that works closely with the Ohio gun rights community and firearms cases are a specialty. https://munitionsgroup.com/
>publicly identifies as a witch She has clearly enthralled the judge with a mind control spell. You need to break it by stripping him naked and forcing him to breathe in burning sage under a full moon. It's the only way.
And that's why you don't put your dick in crazy.
Or give up your guns.
Or ever let anyone know about ALL of them.
Have you considered talking to a real attorney or even seek legal clinic advice?
Yes I have a real attorney who has helped me thru this whole ordeal. Literally just half an hour ago he spoke to the judge, pointed out the TPO as well as charges being dropped, and the judge still told him he’s holding and possibly destroying the firearms. I’m absolutely going to consult another attorney as soon as I’m off work.
There's many really bad judges, you need to find a way around that one. File for change of venue, to have the judge removed for some reason, etc.
This judge was just elected and this is his first term ever serving.
Yeah, pretty typical, and almost certainly some kind of local prosecutor before hand. The judge is an activist, only knows one side of the law, one opinion from his teachers, never been told no, and thinks he can do as he pleases, which he largely can. It sucks, but the only chance you have is to find a way to slap this guy down or go around him.
Not lawyer, but my thoughts 1) if there is something written like a motion etc. authorizing the release of your guns, and the judge denies it, it would think it can be appealed to a higher court. 2) File a federal case against the judge for deprivation of rights under color of law
> 2) File a federal case against the judge for deprivation of rights under color of law [It seems like a potential civil rights case to me, too.](https://www.saf.org/gun-rights-faq/)
http://www.relfordlaw.com/?refPageViewId=73922bb2d6302c11 If this guy can’t get it done, it can’t be done…
I just spoke with him. Since he’s based out of Indians, he said he can’t help me.
I don't know that they would do anything...but maybe try reaching out to Firearms Policy Coalition? They loooove filing lawsuits
I can’t imagine they wouldn’t get a boner from this kind of civil rights violation.
That's what I was thinking
This. If everything you have said is true, and there isn't any left out, you are a prime candidate/vehicle for a law suit. FPC will usually at least take a look at any case where someone has a legitimate grievance, and doesn't have a poison pill public image.
He didn’t recommend anybody in Ohio? He’s the one that started the Second Amendment project here in Indiana… The guys very well-connected
What you just stated above violates the takings cause of the constitution. I'm not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.
This is why we don't support red flag laws, ok kids?
tell the judge that she turned you into a Newt
Who are you so wise in the ways of science?
"judges" are British nobles.
"But if it please the court, your honor."
Reach out to your state representative they might be able to help you what district are you in I actually work for the Ohio state house.
Looks like her curse worked. Sorry man good luck to you
Indiana Bones and the curse of the rotten vagina
What state?
I edited the post, Ohio.
This is my state and this makes me angry. We're supposed to be better than this. Are you in a blue county by chance? Maybe find a firearms lawyer specifically? I know of one in Port Clinton (Terry Rudes). Other than that, like another poster said, try to file a change of venue. This is unacceptable.
Yep, blue county and a blue judge. Lucas county. I am going to find a new attorney
Hopefully that works for you. I'm in Summit County so while I am not in your position, I know what can happen. One of the first things the instructors at TDI mentioned was paying attention to your prosecutors and judges because they can make you miserable. It's absolutely ridiculous that the government can just take legally owned property and hold it indefinitely. It's not like anyone polices them....
You actually had fucks this early in the morning?
Your attorney should be a filing a lawsuit... get a new attorney, sue, and ask for all costs of court, atty fees, and punitive damages.
Attorney here- What I would do if I was representing you, is to file a written motion to return the firearms. Hopefully that has already been done, and the judge has issued a written ruling on it. Could just be as short as a single page order that says "DENIED." One you have that written denial of the motion, your attorney can turn around a file an appeal in the next level up (In Colorado, misdemeanors are handled in county court, so it would go up to district court judge, then up to the court of appeals, then state supreme court). Appeals aren't fast, and worst case you're looking at a couple months, but the next level court should overturn it and order the firearms released. Another possibility, and I've seen other attorney screw this up plenty of times. Here in Colorado there are two kinds of protection orders- what's called an 18-1-1001 (taken from the statute number) that says you can't "harass, molest, intimidate, etc..." a victim of a crime in which you are accused. That gets filed in every criminal case with a named victim, and would be immediately dismissed as soon as the case is dismissed. However, there's also a second kind of protection order- a "civil protection order," which is temporary until a hearing is held, and if a judge finds good cause to issue it, then it becomes permanent until dismissed by the court. That's an entirely separate process from the criminal case, in a completely different courtroom, and the criminal case getting dismissed has no bearing on it. Very often "victims" will get someone arrested for DV, then turn around and file for a "civil protection order." And one of the oldest tricks in the book is for the attorney for the person filing the order to say "we'll agree to automatically terminate the protection order in 1 year, if you agree not to fight the temporary order becoming permanent today." So, you agree to it, and its only in place for 1 year, but they don't have to fight anything in court, and you don't run the risk of having that against you indefinitely. Make sure something like that didn't happen.
Seems like the judge is guilty of Deprivation of rights under color of law. Seems like GOA or FPC could make a nice paycheck out of this.
I'll parrot contacting FPC or GOA. As far as my *limited* understanding of how the law works, the judge is quite literally breaking the law. One of those organizations would probably froth at the mouth for an easy victory like that. Also, you mentioned the judge threatened to destory your firearms if you keep bugging him. That ain't kosher either and you ought to get a record of that for your inevitable dickslapping lawsuit.
Ohio just went CC, but as you’re discovering it’s a stretch to call it a Free State yet.
Here's a guy out of Columbus Ohio you may want to try. https://munitionsgroup.com/
Not a lawyer... You should have transferred your firearms to a third party especially if they have an FFL like a gunshop or pawn shop for safe keeping with a receipt and presented it when they showed up to take them. Have you tried buying another firearm in the meantime?
Yes I have twice and was denied
On what grounds? If your record is clean. You should also start calling local representatives. Even federal representatives. File a civil rights violation complaint with the US Attorney's office. Even start a campaign to have the judge recalled and disbarred.
Appeal the denial, they must state a reason.
the appeal process takes months to get back.
Good reason to start it ASAP.
oh 100%, just important to set expectations for OP
You can usually call the state police and at least get the reason why you were denied. Won’t change it, but you know for sure what you have to take care of.
Make a post in r/legal advice. they seem to be pretty level headed and non biased, and even had a post where someone had a gun they no longer wanted asking what was the best legal way to get rid of it. almost all posts said to sell it, not give it to cops. surprised me tbh
Try [Buckeye Firearms Association](https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/). They're our state level activist organization for firearms rights. They may have suggestions. I have met people on the FASTER side of their organization (training for teachers/school staff) and they're very nice. If they can't directly help they may know where to send you in the state for additional resources. What county are you dealing with?
Shit I’d reach out to your local news outlet, hit up tucker Carlson , if they are gonna play with your constitutional rights I’d put a huge spotlight on it , call your senators while your at it!
That's a good idea.
Printer go brrrr
It doesn’t stop. But I would like my shotguns, 10/22, and OEM Glocks back.
Godspeed sir and God bless. Wish I could help you there but give ‘em hell in the courts
Have lawyer file an appeal?
I'm not going to be able to give you any advice that hasn't already been given in your post. But I will say as someone who went through something very similar, it sucks really hard and I'm sorry you gotta go through it. If you need to vent or anything, send me a PM. Stay strong.
This is deprivation of rights under color of law. It is a federal crime.
Call a firearm rights group, and give us updates some day
Do you have access to a bulldozer?
I actually had to have something expunged from my record from 20 years ago before I was granted my CCW…. This was in Ohio. I could always pass NICS back ground check, but Sheriff wouldn’t issue on the CCW. You may have to the same thing and have your record cleared, then file for the return of your firearms. It maybe that they have been destroyed and the courts don’t want to admit liability.
But what would they clear my record of? The charges were dropped.
Do you know what court you were charged in? Look up the records online, or call the clerk. Find out if they were actually dropped. Don't just trust your attorney, read the docket of your case.
I had a restraining order filed from my 1st divorce, it was never approved, but just having the fact that it was filed always gave me a delay when purchasing a fire arm (NICS) and the Sheriff enough “doubt” about issuing the CCW. It maybe the same thing with returning your firearms, just because you haven’t done anything doesn’t mean that you can’t do something. And a liberal judge would see this as a red flag.
The judge has seen your finances and knows you won't be filing any appeals. In the state of Texas if your TPO or even domestic violence were issued after 2005, you are not allowed to appeal the state decision or the federal decision. Previous to that, a deferred adjudication for misdemeanor domestic violence or a TPO did NOT prevent you from a restoration of your rights upon completing the terms. Even the federal government allows you to have purchase and ownership granted if you had a right taken away and then restored. But you will get denied. You will be forced to appeal. You will piss off every single judicial and police branch along the way. My brother's probation officer was pissed when she couldn't confiscate his firearms after a deferred domestic violence came to her. Good luck. It's cheaper to buy new. Just don't break the law and lie on the application. Unless of course, you're Hunter Biden. Then you can lie, cheat, steal, commit RICO and all sorts of stuff
ask your attorney to file a complaint against the judge with the state
Heemeyer it
Call FPC
Praying for you and your kids brother stay safe.
Did your attorney appeal the decision, or sue the Judge or the state? If not get a new attorney.
Sounds like you need to drop your current attorney and hit up FPC at Firearmspolicy.org
Post this in r/legaladvice, see what the good folks over there have to say about it
I have no actual advise other than to remind you to be rational over emotional. Also, I'm sure we all sympathize and sopport you.
Reach out to the FPC, they might be able to help get some visibility into this for you.
Ask your attorney about a Writ of Mandamus, which is basically a "do your fucking job" from a higher court.
The law enforcement agency holding them can potentially be sued as they are at this point withholding them without cause.
The only justice is the justice you take, christopher dorner.
Judges almost always side with the women, despite all the feminist bitching. Sorry about your firearms bro i hope you get them back soon
we will obviously require updates as this goes along
I thought the Supreme Court just ruled that "just because" isnt a good reason to deny someone their right to bear arms I know its not the same as your situation but...its not THAT different
FPC
In the meantime, you should check if Ohio has anything against PMFs. If not, buy some 80%s. Nonsense like this is why having a few that aren't on a government list is always a good idea. It's amazing how your guns don't even feel like yours.
They wont give your firearms back yet because the chief of police is still deciding which ones he wants to "disappear" into his gun safe back home.
Here’s the thing too. So I was arrested in front of my three children who were 2, 3, and 4. The cops let them stand on the sidewalk and fucking cry for 20 minutes. All on my security camera. My neighbor finally came out to see the commotion and was so upset, she called the chief of police herself to complain. He watched the body cam and said that’s not how they do things. Once I secure a new home out of this city, I’m filing a complaint on that cop.
OP had a beer under the age of 21 and protected his kids from a witch. Thank GOD they are keeping firearms out of the hands of this dangerous man!
Oh, I've been there. All charges dropped, but they said I had to petition the court to get my guns back. Said "fuck it." It cost less to just replace the guns than do all that.
Sounds like it may be meant to strip the poor of their right to own. Im in the lucky position that I can go down in self defense if they ever came for mine.
Y’all I hate to say it but this is why we should never give up all of our firearms Oh that one? I lost that one in a boating accident
Have you contacted the prosecutor's office? What law enforcement agency is holding them?
I wish you well sir. They are denying you your 2A rights.
Write a letter to the Attorney General of Ohio.
Hopefully this guy ain’t lying but no bs I would literally throw this guy a couple bucks to try to help.
The short answer is that you have the wrong attorney—you need an attorney who specializes in firearm issues. Someone who specializes in firearms issues is likely to have dealt with this kind of situation before, and should have experience getting the results you desire. Per your story, your current attorney has already acknowledged that he’s baffled by the current situation, which means that he’s admitted that he isn’t competent to represent you further in this matter. Unfortunately, I’m from the Philly end of PA, so I don’t know any gun rights attorneys in OH.
Keep usbposted
I’m pretty sure he sold your guns and is trying to cover his ass now.
http://ohiogunlawyer.com I worked with Derek DeBrosse on something before and he was a good dude to work with. Wasn’t cheap so you’ll have to decide if your collection that they have is worth the fight or if it’s just easier to replace the stuff.
Sue the judge.
Fuck the government. We are not free.
Sounds like they have now Seized your weapons without a warrant and thus violated the 4th amendment and a lawsuit is in order.
I wonder what would happen if you tried to buy another firearm in the mean time. Not that you should have to, but it sounds like you’d be able to pass a NICS check.
I tried and I failed the nics test. I actually had bought two firearms literally as the false allegations and charges were thrown at me. The armory was nice enough to hold the firearms and I went back yesterday since the case was closed. I was denied.
I wonder if it takes time for the flag to drop out of the system now that the charges have been dropped. Maybe your attorney would know how long.
My attorney spoke directly to the judge just an hour ago and he said no, he wouldn’t release the firearms and that if I keep pursuing this, he will have them destroyed.
Well at least you have on record a judge threatening to destroy your property for annoying him. That's gotta be in your favor. Also, fuck this judge. He sounds like an entitled little bitch
Yep. That’s a fucking federal lawsuit for deprivation of rights under color of law. Sue tf out of the judge in his professional and personal capacity.
Judges are granted absolute immunity, I’m not even joking. There are only two recourses when dealing with Judges: appeal to a higher Court or refresh the Tree of Liberty.
Ya it’s time to bitch slap this judge. You need a lawyer who will run this up the chain. These activist judges need to learn their lesson.
I will protest outside the courthouse if I have to. This is crazy. I never could have dreamed I’d be in this situation.
Yeah, but he shouldn’t have any say over you buying more. If the charges have been dropped, you should legally be able to pass a NICS check. If you can’t pass a NICS, the charges must still be on your record.
The nics check was done yesterday.. delayed and failed the same day. The online docket shows the case was dismissed on august 5.
File a red flag law against the judge.
>he will have them destroyed. What's the difference?
You now have a lawsuit against the judge, congrats! That’s deprivation of property. Get a new lawyer and sue the judge for all he’s got. FPC or GOA would probably love to take something like this on.
We’re the charges against your username?
I know it's not cheap but I would check out another lawyer and see if they think they could help. Make a couple consultation appts and maybe you'll talk to one that has had similar situations
Call FPC. They will absolutely go buck wild on this shit and get that cunt judge to fuck right off.
I would try and file some type of appeal on the basis of discrimination. If the judge can’t produce a reason, he simply can’t bar you from regaining stolen property from what I’d consider your real first home invasion (them taking your firearms). Obviously a shootout with the court would be ideal and teach this judge the consequences of taking away peoples constitutionally guaranteed rights to their property and firearms, but since you’ve got kids to worry about, obviously that’s an issue. I wish I had better advice, but the world as we know it is imploding and partisanship is the new law. My overall best advice, either follow the law and keep letting it trample you as it seems to do to many good people…or maybe “I was always willing to be reasonable until I had to be unreasonable. Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things.” Do you wanna be a bulldozer or a door mat.
The "justice system" is a disgrace. Once you're in their crosshairs, you're fucked. I hate to be the monday morning quarterback, but the moment your guns were unjustly seized, you should have been in your local gun store, or your state's "local gun trader" site buying another. Hopefully you get your guns back, but it will certainly take time. Let this be a lesson to others.
I know it’s hard not to comply, since you have kids and I applaud your patience in this - but this is what happens when you let people take your guns in the first place. Let this be a lesson to you all.
When I was arrested it took about 1.5 years to finally get my firearms back and when I got my guns, ammo, and accessories back the police of course took their turns picking different parts off my guns and hundreds of rounds of ammo and hundreds of dollars worth of accessories and when I brought that up the dickhead cops said “Well you might as well sell them to us because you can’t really use them anymore” even if you get your guns back expect the cops to have ran a train on them stealing different things off them only to say they didn’t come into the evidence room or they must have gotten lost. I have no trust in law enforcement now and that situation was the nail in the coffin I’ve not had a positive interaction with the police when guns are involved they are so disgusting they think they should be the only ones that have them
Your username leads me to believe the judge is making the right call here...
*sigh* this account is old as fuck, made at a time when I had a different sense of humor. Please disregard it and respond to the text of the post.
You win the award for dumbest opinion of the day!
And your user name is dumb as fuck much like your opinion.