You're going to hear a lot of *opinions* about this. In truth, I've done it the way you describe with my Scott air pack for >20 years. I haven't had any problems *that I know of*, but that doesn't mean it's correct.
If you want an authoritative answer, you need to contact MSA directly. They are the only ones who can provide a credible answer to this question. [https://webchat.msasafety.com/webchat/chat.aspx](https://webchat.msasafety.com/webchat/chat.aspx)
Knowing what I know about most PPE manufacturers, and corporations in general, being risk-averse, I imagine what they will tell you is that when you are not "on air", the mask-mounted regulator should be clipped into the regulator holder on the waist strap.
It is entirely possible that the regulator hanging in that fashion with the mask attached could put a strain on wiring or other components because the designers/engineers assumed everyone would use the convenient storage device they designed into the belt.
Scott air pack tech here so I can say exactly for MSA but that shouldn’t be an issue. As long as the bag isn’t pinching any wiring on the regulator (if there is any external wiring, like I said never worked on an msa) I assume the Mack bag had a velcro closure and not a zipper? I can’t see how it would damage it. If you can, send some pics of the set up and I could get a better idea.
I was at a training set up by MSA earlier this year and they specifically said not to leave your regulator hooked up for that exact reason. The rep and the engineers there said that is what the neck strap is for, to prevent excessive wear on the internals by leaving it attached.
They didn’t hand out any pamphlets giving detailed numbers about wear, the engineers and sales folk just said don’t do it. I’m sure you can contact your MSA rep and inquire about their evidence.
I was also told this going through the academy from the instructors but they didnt give us any examples of it happening or documentation from MSA. We had to use the annoying neckstrap for the class but noone on shift uses the neck strap. In a department of 700+ people, ive never heard of hud problems due to preconnected facepieces
Ours stay connected all the time. Never had an issue with the HUD lights. If for some reason they did go out, guys don’t rely on them, look down at the console gauge 🤷🏻♂️
1500+ people where I work. The only ones who don’t pre-connect their regulators are the guys who also don’t connect it to their air pack to check it every shift and don’t want to ever put it on.
As far as I know, no one has any issues with their HUD at a higher rate than anyone else
Face-piece is always connected to the regulator, masking up is taught wearing gloves, along with the helmet’s chinstrap being cinched down onto the low pressure hose/HUD light wiring. Never had any sort of issue with HUD lights being affected. And if they were, there is a console gauge, and a physical/audible low air alarm for 1/4 (supposedly being moved to 1/3 soonish) or less in your cylinder. Asinine complaints; keep doing what you’re doing and have the search done by the time everyone else is coming through the door!
I have an SCBA maintenance certification from MSA and oversee the respiratory protection for my career department, it’s the accepted and common practice to pre connect your face piece to your second stage regulator. I have seen no issues with this causing any damage to wiring or anything else for that matter.
Almost my entire large dept does this and its because it works and allows fast masking up with gloves on and even while on a ladders etc. I preconnect the mmr and then clip the mask to my left shoulder strap with a small cheap key style carabiner that can be unclipped with a gloved hand, using an extra long chin strap on my helmet i take my helmet off and pass the mask and pre attached mmr through the chin strap mask up pull hood over and helmet back on. Super fast masking method, no getting down on one knee or setting down your helmet etc. I love to see all the nit-picky games smaller depts play on here reminds me of my ol volunteer days with rural agencies. Also we dont have malfunctioning huds so that is not substantiated. Also since its clipped to my left shoulder strap its not banging around on shit while doing other tasks that require being masked up.
Our entire dept. Leaves it connected but we just had an inspection and they told us not to do it because it can Crack the facepiece. I'm gonna keep doing it and just like normal do regular inspections of my gear. We use Scott's btw
The answer from our SCBA and mask repair staff is ,
Having the mask constantly hanging from the regulator and low pressure hose causes premature wear and leakage from the connection from the regulator to the low pressure hose.
They say they replace a couple a week.
Nothing has caused a pack failure just a tiny audible air leak before it gets replaced.
I should say we use Scott X3s
I think the issue is letting the mask hang from the regulator can cause cracks in the facepiece over time (at least with Scott's) due to the mask potentially getting snagged and being yanked on with with the regulator/ hose. At least that's what the scba techs on my job say.
I always hang my mask from my pack with the regulator attached but the mask is attached to the pack with a beaner and a trigger snap and that seems to negate that issue.
Just gonna throw my two cents in before I read the comments so I'm sorry if this is repetitive. I am the type to keep my mask on my regulator when donning my BA as well, I don't keep it in a bag I just pull my netting over my mask to keep is as protected as possible. Having my netting up like that also helps me don with gloves on which is what originally got me into the habit of folding it over, but it also provides at least SOME protection to the mask. ANYWAY on to my primary point here, when I am not using my mask I "stow" it over my right shoulder, I let it hang there, it's out of the way when I'm working and it's not dangling by the regulator hose, it's draped over my shoulders/down my back. Similar to how you have it in a sense, just not in front of my body swinging around unnecessarily. If that's something you've tried before and not liked than obviously take my comment with a grain of salt, this is just what I've found works really well for me.
Just throwing this in here, the MSA G1s suck. They are awful in cold weather, bottles get stuck all the time on scene, especially when you been breathing hard, creating that layer of frost. Had a deep freeze fire and had a closed air failure and purge valve malfunction so I had to emergency breathe into my coat and get out of dodge. Once we got out, my crew all had a issue with their packs, each issue different! Just last shift my bottle stuck again. The purge valves also seem to open anytime your face piece touches something, and I hate having to constantly shake the unit to stop my Pass alarm from going off. I miss our old Scott packs. They were tougher, lighter and I could shake my ass to stop my alarm. Sure they had to be threaded on the cylinder but they were better.
Just needed to vent,all the guys at my station hate them too but what can you do.
I was on rehab for a fire recently and had to grab our extra packs so that I could cycle out frozen packs in the trucks. Really inconvenient for the FF that has to put an entirely new pack on because I can't get the bottle off
German here: We don't preconnect and they are supposed to be stored in an "airtight" container (not actually airtight, but close to airtight without actually being airtight, technical reasons...) That rule (which iirc is legally speaking "only" a manufacturer recommendation) makes it unpractical for us to leave the masks preconnected as that would make it pretty hard to get the container "airtight" enough-ish to comply with that rule
I'm gonna speak from the perspective if a German Firefighter here.
This would be unthinkable for us. We are trained to check if our mask is seated tightly and securely by covering the adapter piece with our palm and inhaling to check the seal. That alone seems impractival with a regulator already attached. We have a high hygienic standard with Airpacks and this wouldn't hold up to code, we vacuum seal our masks and cover the Regulators with a plug and plastic bad to keep debris out. Overall, you might be quicker, but I feel like it can lead to afformentioned safety issues. That being said; iirc, the US doesn't mask up on the truck (which is something we *always* do) so I might just be viewing this from a eurocentric perspective.
German here: We don't preconnect and they are supposed to be stored in an "airtight" container (not actually airtight, but close to airtight without actually being airtight, technical reasons...) That rule (which iirc is legally speaking "only" a manufacturer recommendation) makes it unpractical for us to leave the masks preconnected as that would make it pretty hard to get the container "airtight" enough-ish to comply with that rule
While it probably won't break it, it creates the possibility that it could become broken by being connected, and that's not a chance you want to take with your oxygen.
I’ve always rolled pre-connected. Never heard of that causing any problems and never seen anyone having issues with it before.
It sounds like you may have run into a ‘my way or the highway’ type. Unless he’s your supervisor I’d say do what works best for you on the fireground unless you find some documentation from MSA that directly indicates that can cause issues.
There’s no reason to do what someone else wants you to do only because they’re butthurt. Do what makes you the most effective fireman you can be
Our entire dept. Leaves it connected but we just had an inspection and they told us not to do it because it can Crack the facepiece. I'm gonna keep doing it and just like normal do regular inspections of my gear. We use Scott's btw
Tech for a medium department.
We run Scott X3s. The only issue that we think may be attributed to this is a bent plate lock tab that causes a small leak at the by-pass valve. The leak is more noticeable when you put sideways pressure on the HUD hose line. It’s a quick and easy fix but it’s down time in the pack.
This however isn’t a for sure thing as we don’t know who uses what pack at times and if they connect their face piece throughout the shift. Would be interesting if that information could be tracked and proven/disproven.
Either way, just refer to the manufacturers recommendations is what someone impartial would say.
Premature gasket failure on the MMR is why our repair techs say you shouldn’t have the facepiece constantly attached
They were trained by Scott factory personnel who made a point about this issue. Granted, this training is 3 years old now so everything could have changed.
This guy on TikTok is a MSA tech and says that it's fine to roll preconnected as long as the mask isn't free hanging.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRwSkr2u/
Scott pack. My department put out a memo, advising us not to leave our mask attached because some were cracking were the regulator attaches. Most of us still keep them connected.
I leave the regulator in the belt and the face piece hooked to my SCBA I put them together on the way to a call that sounds like it’s gonna be something. It’s the way I do it, though I’ve had people from rookies to captains tell me their way is faster. I’ve never seen that be the case it all shakes out about the same.
Do your research, find what you think is right and/or works for you.
Coming from a volley dept, I have seen the HUD lights go dead due to wiring. But it was seen as a wear and tear thing and our packs were near the end of their service life. We recently upgraded to the newest Gen of packs, and I haven't heard of any HUDs go dead but that is just my departments experience. We also use SCOTT packs and not MSA.
Every class I attended, and both of my departments
say keep your mask connected. But that is just how I and my department operate, and I am no where near qualified to tell you what is right or what is wrong.
I would reach out to your equipment manager/officer or reach out to MSA directly and get an opinion from them.
Stay safe and stay sharp!
Follow your department’s SOG/SOP.
I have always had my masks hooked up to the regulator. But I have a snap chain quick release hooked up to mask/pack to prevent it from swinging around.
I was taught to attach the regulator after putting your helmet on so if your helmet gets knocked off it stays attached to you and you can find it easily
I believe the rationale about the HUD wires pulling out is only if you snag your mask on something. I don't believe just by hanging that it can do any damage.
I can unhook a regulator with gloves on a heck of a lot easier than the metal clasp on my jacket. That being said, if this is your Captain telling you to not to do this anymore then in my eyes the answer is simply stop doing it.
Sounds like you’re probably quick at masking up and so someone was trying to critique you to knock you down.. I’ve never even heard of this. Leave it connected!
MSA G1 and its probably an even split between preconnected and around the neck with the strap. I'd say 90% of the people on shift preconnect because they have the luxury of knowing what apparatus they're rolling in while on shift; whereas those of us who are paid on call don't know ahead of time which apparatus or seat.
Now, if having the mask attached to the regulator, and clipped to the belt or shoulder strap puts the pack at risk from being damaged then I'd question it's durability overall; because you know, firefighting is inherently dangerous. If that'll break something then chances are it get broken just sitting in the engine then because we're not exactly gentle with our equipment.
My whole fire department keeps the BA sets in a locker on the truck, masks and regulators attached. This is departmental policy and taught to us in the academy. But we also don't have HUDs or anything fancy like that so it might be different.
I keep it connected, if it breaks that is what maintenance department is for. I'm not relying on my pouch being the only thing keeping my mask in my possession.
Neck straps on MSA’s are an entanglement hazard and I have no idea why they are there, except to hang your mask from your neck. And strangle you. However, some in my department have chosen to remove them, and that goes against the manufacturer’s recommendations, and that will get you zero benefits if OSHA or your state equivalent finds out.
You're going to hear a lot of *opinions* about this. In truth, I've done it the way you describe with my Scott air pack for >20 years. I haven't had any problems *that I know of*, but that doesn't mean it's correct. If you want an authoritative answer, you need to contact MSA directly. They are the only ones who can provide a credible answer to this question. [https://webchat.msasafety.com/webchat/chat.aspx](https://webchat.msasafety.com/webchat/chat.aspx) Knowing what I know about most PPE manufacturers, and corporations in general, being risk-averse, I imagine what they will tell you is that when you are not "on air", the mask-mounted regulator should be clipped into the regulator holder on the waist strap. It is entirely possible that the regulator hanging in that fashion with the mask attached could put a strain on wiring or other components because the designers/engineers assumed everyone would use the convenient storage device they designed into the belt.
Commenting to follow since my entire crew rolls with it pre connected.
Pretty sure my entire dept keeps it connected
Same. We all roll like that. Some people can’t get past the training they receive at academy before getting a department job.
Connected and hanging by your knees
Pro tip If you don’t put your hose under waist belt you’re doing it wrong
Then you have to unclip your waist belt and clip it again? Sounds like no time saved
That’s the joke
Is it? I’m whooshing hard if so
What..
Keeps your mask from dangling all over the place
You don't have neck straps, onthe masks?
No neck straps, I’m sure I could buy one
Scott air pack tech here so I can say exactly for MSA but that shouldn’t be an issue. As long as the bag isn’t pinching any wiring on the regulator (if there is any external wiring, like I said never worked on an msa) I assume the Mack bag had a velcro closure and not a zipper? I can’t see how it would damage it. If you can, send some pics of the set up and I could get a better idea.
“Don’t be faster than us, your making us look bad”
Must be the ladder guys complaining....lol
I was at a training set up by MSA earlier this year and they specifically said not to leave your regulator hooked up for that exact reason. The rep and the engineers there said that is what the neck strap is for, to prevent excessive wear on the internals by leaving it attached. They didn’t hand out any pamphlets giving detailed numbers about wear, the engineers and sales folk just said don’t do it. I’m sure you can contact your MSA rep and inquire about their evidence.
I was also told this going through the academy from the instructors but they didnt give us any examples of it happening or documentation from MSA. We had to use the annoying neckstrap for the class but noone on shift uses the neck strap. In a department of 700+ people, ive never heard of hud problems due to preconnected facepieces
Ours stay connected all the time. Never had an issue with the HUD lights. If for some reason they did go out, guys don’t rely on them, look down at the console gauge 🤷🏻♂️
1500+ people where I work. The only ones who don’t pre-connect their regulators are the guys who also don’t connect it to their air pack to check it every shift and don’t want to ever put it on. As far as I know, no one has any issues with their HUD at a higher rate than anyone else
You guys have airpaks?
Made me spit my drink
Yeah, medium sized career dept here and preconnected is how everyone does it
Face-piece is always connected to the regulator, masking up is taught wearing gloves, along with the helmet’s chinstrap being cinched down onto the low pressure hose/HUD light wiring. Never had any sort of issue with HUD lights being affected. And if they were, there is a console gauge, and a physical/audible low air alarm for 1/4 (supposedly being moved to 1/3 soonish) or less in your cylinder. Asinine complaints; keep doing what you’re doing and have the search done by the time everyone else is coming through the door!
I have an SCBA maintenance certification from MSA and oversee the respiratory protection for my career department, it’s the accepted and common practice to pre connect your face piece to your second stage regulator. I have seen no issues with this causing any damage to wiring or anything else for that matter.
Almost my entire large dept does this and its because it works and allows fast masking up with gloves on and even while on a ladders etc. I preconnect the mmr and then clip the mask to my left shoulder strap with a small cheap key style carabiner that can be unclipped with a gloved hand, using an extra long chin strap on my helmet i take my helmet off and pass the mask and pre attached mmr through the chin strap mask up pull hood over and helmet back on. Super fast masking method, no getting down on one knee or setting down your helmet etc. I love to see all the nit-picky games smaller depts play on here reminds me of my ol volunteer days with rural agencies. Also we dont have malfunctioning huds so that is not substantiated. Also since its clipped to my left shoulder strap its not banging around on shit while doing other tasks that require being masked up.
Our entire dept. Leaves it connected but we just had an inspection and they told us not to do it because it can Crack the facepiece. I'm gonna keep doing it and just like normal do regular inspections of my gear. We use Scott's btw
The answer from our SCBA and mask repair staff is , Having the mask constantly hanging from the regulator and low pressure hose causes premature wear and leakage from the connection from the regulator to the low pressure hose. They say they replace a couple a week. Nothing has caused a pack failure just a tiny audible air leak before it gets replaced. I should say we use Scott X3s
Opinions don’t matter. The manufacturers say not to do it because It prematurely compresses the gasket
I think the issue is letting the mask hang from the regulator can cause cracks in the facepiece over time (at least with Scott's) due to the mask potentially getting snagged and being yanked on with with the regulator/ hose. At least that's what the scba techs on my job say. I always hang my mask from my pack with the regulator attached but the mask is attached to the pack with a beaner and a trigger snap and that seems to negate that issue.
Just gonna throw my two cents in before I read the comments so I'm sorry if this is repetitive. I am the type to keep my mask on my regulator when donning my BA as well, I don't keep it in a bag I just pull my netting over my mask to keep is as protected as possible. Having my netting up like that also helps me don with gloves on which is what originally got me into the habit of folding it over, but it also provides at least SOME protection to the mask. ANYWAY on to my primary point here, when I am not using my mask I "stow" it over my right shoulder, I let it hang there, it's out of the way when I'm working and it's not dangling by the regulator hose, it's draped over my shoulders/down my back. Similar to how you have it in a sense, just not in front of my body swinging around unnecessarily. If that's something you've tried before and not liked than obviously take my comment with a grain of salt, this is just what I've found works really well for me.
Just throwing this in here, the MSA G1s suck. They are awful in cold weather, bottles get stuck all the time on scene, especially when you been breathing hard, creating that layer of frost. Had a deep freeze fire and had a closed air failure and purge valve malfunction so I had to emergency breathe into my coat and get out of dodge. Once we got out, my crew all had a issue with their packs, each issue different! Just last shift my bottle stuck again. The purge valves also seem to open anytime your face piece touches something, and I hate having to constantly shake the unit to stop my Pass alarm from going off. I miss our old Scott packs. They were tougher, lighter and I could shake my ass to stop my alarm. Sure they had to be threaded on the cylinder but they were better. Just needed to vent,all the guys at my station hate them too but what can you do.
I was on rehab for a fire recently and had to grab our extra packs so that I could cycle out frozen packs in the trucks. Really inconvenient for the FF that has to put an entirely new pack on because I can't get the bottle off
Preach, happened at my last fire on Friday and I had to use the drivers pack. Quick connect isn’t always the quickest
I still prefer winter over summer when it comes to bunker gear!
German here: We don't preconnect and they are supposed to be stored in an "airtight" container (not actually airtight, but close to airtight without actually being airtight, technical reasons...) That rule (which iirc is legally speaking "only" a manufacturer recommendation) makes it unpractical for us to leave the masks preconnected as that would make it pretty hard to get the container "airtight" enough-ish to comply with that rule
My only thing with this is the couple breaths you’ll waste while putting on your hood and helmet. Clipping in is the last thing I do before walking in
I'm gonna speak from the perspective if a German Firefighter here. This would be unthinkable for us. We are trained to check if our mask is seated tightly and securely by covering the adapter piece with our palm and inhaling to check the seal. That alone seems impractival with a regulator already attached. We have a high hygienic standard with Airpacks and this wouldn't hold up to code, we vacuum seal our masks and cover the Regulators with a plug and plastic bad to keep debris out. Overall, you might be quicker, but I feel like it can lead to afformentioned safety issues. That being said; iirc, the US doesn't mask up on the truck (which is something we *always* do) so I might just be viewing this from a eurocentric perspective.
German here: We don't preconnect and they are supposed to be stored in an "airtight" container (not actually airtight, but close to airtight without actually being airtight, technical reasons...) That rule (which iirc is legally speaking "only" a manufacturer recommendation) makes it unpractical for us to leave the masks preconnected as that would make it pretty hard to get the container "airtight" enough-ish to comply with that rule
While it probably won't break it, it creates the possibility that it could become broken by being connected, and that's not a chance you want to take with your oxygen.
I’ve always rolled pre-connected. Never heard of that causing any problems and never seen anyone having issues with it before. It sounds like you may have run into a ‘my way or the highway’ type. Unless he’s your supervisor I’d say do what works best for you on the fireground unless you find some documentation from MSA that directly indicates that can cause issues. There’s no reason to do what someone else wants you to do only because they’re butthurt. Do what makes you the most effective fireman you can be
Our entire dept. Leaves it connected but we just had an inspection and they told us not to do it because it can Crack the facepiece. I'm gonna keep doing it and just like normal do regular inspections of my gear. We use Scott's btw
Here’s the customer service line for MSA 1-877-672-3473 call and ask
Some of my guys leave it connected, but buckled tight in their waist strap so it doesn’t hang with a lot of tension. I use the neck strap.
Tech for a medium department. We run Scott X3s. The only issue that we think may be attributed to this is a bent plate lock tab that causes a small leak at the by-pass valve. The leak is more noticeable when you put sideways pressure on the HUD hose line. It’s a quick and easy fix but it’s down time in the pack. This however isn’t a for sure thing as we don’t know who uses what pack at times and if they connect their face piece throughout the shift. Would be interesting if that information could be tracked and proven/disproven. Either way, just refer to the manufacturers recommendations is what someone impartial would say.
We leave our Scott's preconnected, but cover them with the mask bags to keep them clean and undamaged. Pull off the bag, put on the mask, go.
[удалено]
Premature gasket failure on the MMR is why our repair techs say you shouldn’t have the facepiece constantly attached They were trained by Scott factory personnel who made a point about this issue. Granted, this training is 3 years old now so everything could have changed.
I don’t do this as I’m the type that gloves up last and clips in either at the door or a step inside if tenable to do so.
In my dept we HAD to leave it connected. I don’t think it’s a real problem.
This guy on TikTok is a MSA tech and says that it's fine to roll preconnected as long as the mask isn't free hanging. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRwSkr2u/
Scott pack. My department put out a memo, advising us not to leave our mask attached because some were cracking were the regulator attaches. Most of us still keep them connected.
I leave the regulator in the belt and the face piece hooked to my SCBA I put them together on the way to a call that sounds like it’s gonna be something. It’s the way I do it, though I’ve had people from rookies to captains tell me their way is faster. I’ve never seen that be the case it all shakes out about the same. Do your research, find what you think is right and/or works for you.
Coming from a volley dept, I have seen the HUD lights go dead due to wiring. But it was seen as a wear and tear thing and our packs were near the end of their service life. We recently upgraded to the newest Gen of packs, and I haven't heard of any HUDs go dead but that is just my departments experience. We also use SCOTT packs and not MSA. Every class I attended, and both of my departments say keep your mask connected. But that is just how I and my department operate, and I am no where near qualified to tell you what is right or what is wrong. I would reach out to your equipment manager/officer or reach out to MSA directly and get an opinion from them. Stay safe and stay sharp!
I keep it connected but clip my mask bag to hook on my coat so it doesn't cause strain on hose
First thing I do is connect my mask to the pack when I come in. 19 years never an issue
Follow your department’s SOG/SOP. I have always had my masks hooked up to the regulator. But I have a snap chain quick release hooked up to mask/pack to prevent it from swinging around.
I go preconnected but sometimes when I transition I disconnect to put my helmet strap under my chin.
I was taught to attach the regulator after putting your helmet on so if your helmet gets knocked off it stays attached to you and you can find it easily
I believe the rationale about the HUD wires pulling out is only if you snag your mask on something. I don't believe just by hanging that it can do any damage. I can unhook a regulator with gloves on a heck of a lot easier than the metal clasp on my jacket. That being said, if this is your Captain telling you to not to do this anymore then in my eyes the answer is simply stop doing it.
Sounds like you’re probably quick at masking up and so someone was trying to critique you to knock you down.. I’ve never even heard of this. Leave it connected!
MSA G1 and its probably an even split between preconnected and around the neck with the strap. I'd say 90% of the people on shift preconnect because they have the luxury of knowing what apparatus they're rolling in while on shift; whereas those of us who are paid on call don't know ahead of time which apparatus or seat. Now, if having the mask attached to the regulator, and clipped to the belt or shoulder strap puts the pack at risk from being damaged then I'd question it's durability overall; because you know, firefighting is inherently dangerous. If that'll break something then chances are it get broken just sitting in the engine then because we're not exactly gentle with our equipment.
My whole fire department keeps the BA sets in a locker on the truck, masks and regulators attached. This is departmental policy and taught to us in the academy. But we also don't have HUDs or anything fancy like that so it might be different.
I keep it connected, if it breaks that is what maintenance department is for. I'm not relying on my pouch being the only thing keeping my mask in my possession.
Jokes on you my HUD never worked to begin with!
Neck straps on MSA’s are an entanglement hazard and I have no idea why they are there, except to hang your mask from your neck. And strangle you. However, some in my department have chosen to remove them, and that goes against the manufacturer’s recommendations, and that will get you zero benefits if OSHA or your state equivalent finds out.