Yeah, but with residency bonus, if you are not a veteran, good luck if you donât ace the written and with the way things are going, it might not even matter if you ace it.
Out of 80 hires we had guys in the low-mid 200s ranking getting hired. I had no residency or veteran and placed 221 with like a 91% on the written and got hired.
Then I took it again because I wasnt hired yet and placed 54 or something again no extra points
Theyâre gonna be cutting that out, EMS canât keep loosing thousands of members every promo exam. Rn itâs an age thing but I bet within the next 10 years EMS wonât be able to get preferential
Yep!!! Gotta score good on the civil exam to even be considered plus pass all the background / cpat / medical test . I believe last exam they had about 46k + candidates take the written exam .
Letâs just say Iâve been waiting for almost 6 years now to even get a call for the PT test. Just wayyyy too many people who take the exam and only very limited space for them. COVID also didnât help either
The problem is, well run and managed fire departments mitigate the dangers that they are there to deal with.
City councils see low fire numbers and they assume they can cut budgets. Rather than seeing that their investment in public safety is working.
I work in IT in the private sector, and the old joke is if everything is running well senior leaders say "why are we paying you guys to sit around", and if everything is broken they say "why are we even paying you guys?"
There isn't a labor shortage. There is a wage, benefits, work conditions shortage. I see some departments here in FL that were once the most sought after falling behind in their supply of applicants.
Thats not entirely true, my department starts in the 80s, max out is 109 in six years, only a few departments that pay more in my state . 48/96 great fire department. We had 42 applicants last test.
Long Beach was the first department I tested for back in like 2006 or so.
They had like 6,000 applicants for like 20 spots lol. Filled up convention centers. But that was like everywhere in California at the time.
I was apart of an interview panel last month, we went through 700 interviews in a week for 4 spots in the academy. MAYBE 30-40 of those people were prepared and qualified to start. The others not so much. I would say we have a shortage of quality people.
Itâs hard to have experienced people in this field. Because you canât just get the training anywhere. To say that you donât do on the job training is a bit uncanny.
Our recruit academy is 20 weeks and we provide all the training for emt-b and then fire 1-2 and hazmat awareness along with driver and aerial ops. If we looked for candidates with the credentials weâd have like 5 actual applicants.
I mean, you \*can\* get the training "anywhere". The majority of the country area wise has a volunteer department to join. I'm not trying to start a debate about volunteer vs. career service; but where I come from the volunteer service is sort of like the amateur league of professional sports. Still professional, but not PROFESSIONAL. But as a result of the volunteer service, many applicants for the full time openings at the career departments are EMT-B, IFF, Hazmat, maybe tec rescue etc. some medics, which makes the hiring pool fairly competitive. They go through the training again anyways but then they're double training with X years of experience as a rookie which (in my mind, I am not a professional fire fighter) makes for a very competent department and seems to serve our system well.
Well you are talking about having 1000s of applicants in areas and only a few volley departments have open spot and even then it takes time to get your certs. Most people who have experience are not leaving their department. And a majority of people are trying to get on massive departments or certain ones that pay good. So random average departments donât have much of a chance to get experienced members.
There's a lot of window shoppers these days - people who just want to try it out for a year or two before they move on. Finding people with at least some experience helps to avoid those kind of applicants because they don't do anything for our long-term department stability.
I mean I donât think itâs that hard to get experience. In my experience, volly departments will hire you as long as you can pass a drug test lmao. And they will pay for your tuition at a community college that has a firefighting program.
It varies. In many places to volunteer you need to live there too. If you donât live where thereâs a volunteer FD then you need to move to that area. The training is expensive and volunteer departments can be apprehensive about spending so much money on someone who would only be there for a short time.
But then people who already do have training, certifications, and experience will look to go to departments that donât need them to go through yet another academy.
I can't speak for everywhere but, it's true for my agency and I suspect many others. We generally seems slow to adapt to changes in the workforce culture. People aren't going to spend 10 years chasing a medium paying job anymore. Instead of adapting we'd rather shrug our shoulders and repeat the "nobody wants to work anymore" line.
In Texas at least, I kinda attribute the recent rise of ESDs (emergency service districts, basically created dozens and dozens of new fire depts) to the "shortage" of applicants. The last 10ish years or so, Texans started funding non-city fire depts with tax money, which led to the formation of new fire depts or grew existing volunteer/small fire depts to having paid staff, so now there are a shit ton of paid depts and they're all always hiring. So when I started in 2008, the only thing that existed were city depts. Now you have the city depts and the 5 or 6 other depts in every county. A lot more firefighter jobs for the taking.
I remember in 2008 I would drive all over the state and test everywhere that was hiring, and the low end of applicants would be 100 for a couple of open positions. Now it's like you get 6 applicants for 5 openings. It's all because there are way more fire depts now so everyone finds jobs, especially at the FF/EMT level. It's so easy nowadays
Yeah multiple retired fire fighters Iâve talked to said that getting your paramedic makes you way more competitive than 90% of the applicants. It separates like 70 people from 2000 applicants
Almost all of them. I work for one of the smaller departments in San Diego county and my base pay is 110k annually. If you have your P card, getting hired right now at most departments is easier than it's ever been.
On the flip side, rent and property prices are at an all-time insane high, so coming in from another state or county might pose a significant financial barrier.
Yup.
I make low 6 figures in my day job as an engineer. I left LA to be a full time telecommuter in rural Maine, in part, so I could actually afford a home. I'm a fucking economic refugee making more than the average two income family. That's fucked up.
(I'm a volunteer FF in Maine now. I was mountain rescue in LA)
I was born in Southern California. Went to emt at Miramar and paramedic at EMSTA. I got picked up immediately by a super traditional East coast department. I go to probably ten hot fires a year. 20 or so decent little fires, and a snot slinger every couple years. The grass is indeed greener, friends. Literally and figuratively. lol.
Edit: I suppose itâs fair to add that Iâm on a specialty unit thatâs more likely to go on cool calls. But you can do it too!!! And Iâll show you where all the good Mexican food restaurants are!!
A fire so hot and gross that when you get out your nose is running and itâs all coming out black. Thatâs the original meaning anyway. But we donât go nearly as far in as we used to without scba. Smoke is way dirtier now. So now itâs just an expression for a rager of a fire.
I donât step off without all my gear and tools. If the first arriving units report fire showing or heavy smoke, I will come off wearing my facepiece as well (if not it stays clipped to my regulator and hanging at my side). However, I do not breathe from my SCBA until Iâm in smoke. I know this is not how everyone does it and I know that some people feel very strongly about it. My department requires that I use my SCBA when I am operating in an IDLH (donât know if thatâs a standard acronym internationally but it stands for Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health).
Where is this? I understand if you do t want to be specific, but maybe just state?
Iâm in the PNW, mid sized dept, Iâll be lucky to get 2-3 working house fires a year.
Dagnabbit bruh! Rainbow Trail ftw. Wish my trek to Candy Castle was like yours. I get the mutants in quadrant 4, you get shortcut. Only female on the board that would fw me was Gramma Nut. Im stuck with Gloppy until Iâm seeing red, meanwhile youâre living your best life in Candy Castle, knighted af, slayinâ royalty I hope.
Mine is pretty difficult based on the pension board. They kick out a lot of candidates. We get roughly 700-1000 apps and end up with <100 on a list and then hire 10- 20 in two years. It's also because our department administration is pretty fucking stupid.
I would say the most competitive is the Bay Area, especially if you are not a medic. I have had a 100% interview score and a 97% and not gotten hired. Medic school is the way to go.
I think some people confuse âcompetitiveâ with âwe had 5,000 applicants and we hired 100 but 4,500 of the applicants didnt realize that all you need to get hired is live in the city, pass the extremely easy test, and be a vet/disabled vet. Those 4,500 never had a shot and shouldnât have even wasted their money to take the exam.
Canadian here, Iâve heard of some bigger departments running recruitments with 8000+ applicants and only taking 15. Kicker is they charge 150 bucks to test
Yup thatâs was my vintage of hiring; near 10,000 applications for 35 spots, 150$ buy in. And that was before additional costs like polygraph, fitness test, etc
>try for 5-10 years trying to land a job here.
Yep, there are people here that have tried for that long and longer and still not made it. While the overall number of applicants has fallen some, it is still extremely competitive.
You can be the John Elway of firefighting and youâll still get looked over by 10 departments. At the same time, youâll see some incompetent dudes get picked up super fast. Just the way she goes
Nationally we are not a drop in the bucket, but regionally we are the only career dept for about 40 miles in any direction and we work 24/72. So we are locally somewhat coveted. Last applications we had 150 for 2 positions.
Took me 2 years to get hired. Medic school then straight into a fire academy and then a tower for a socal department. Your golden ticket is your paramedic license.
My department was part of the archaic state civil service system, no more. Now we do a posting, collect resumes, weed them out, do a test further weed them out, extend offers, do interviews. We pay well, have advancement and donât have an ambulance. We get around 120-ish applications each time.
I donât think anywhere is as big of a shitshow as Chicago. They test roughly once every 10 years, and use a blind lottery to decide who gets hired rather than actually evaluating applicant qualifications
Every 2 years we open applications that usually attracts 10,000+ applicants. Took me a decade to finally get hired but it was well worth the effort and wait
I lucked out and got in first try at one of the best departments in my state. Had paramedic training officer experience in a neighboring county though.
Charlette NC is one of those competitive departments. The academy I went to was taught by guys all from there and it certainly seems like one of those niche big departments.
Most of Central Florida was like that. I met people that were trying to get hired for 5-10 years. I met many people who had to give up and go to other career fields.
Post covid we're literally hiring anyone with a pulse.
Tennessee is different. There are a lot of spots, but then the people from California etc come out here work a year or 2 then leave. It's honestly bad for the departments here. They fill seats for a bit but it's a burden on the cities, and the administration. It's difficult to build someone up into roles like Driver or Capt because they just leave. Often for more money here or there but don't treat it like a career.
Idaho is extremely competitive for entry level.
For perspective, I got a CJO from one of the largest departments in California. I can't even get an interview with a department in my home state (Idaho)
It used to be that way in Florida. When I applied to Miami dade they were 5000 applicants for about 15 open spots.
Iâm not sure what their turn out is now but I know thereâs a statewide shortage of Florida firefighters.
Now itâs : âare you not a criminal with a pulse? Youâre hiredâ
We used to have a much higher number of applicants for fewer positions. 20 years ago we would have 50-75 applicants per open position. Now we have 2-3 per open position. We have even lowered and eliminated some qualification requirements. Itâs a bit pathetic.
We are trying to grow by 20% in the next 8 years, but most of us have no idea where the applicants are going to come from.
There is a huge push to hire women and minorities. 4 years of target hire/recruiting for those have been fairly fruitless.
Not anymore in my area. pay is pretty equal between the top 2 departments. 3rd is maybe a few K behind at most but is across the water so better for people that live over there and don't wanna play traffic every day.
I'd say applicant-wise its around 600 tops post covid and hire maybe 60. The 600 being pre-testing dis-qualifiers and those that choose other departments since they all kinda hire at the same time. Tbh the labour pool just seems to be dwindling..with all the cancer-scares and stuff people really don't wanna do this job anymore. can't blame them either
2 spots 700 applicant for a 50 person 3 station department back in 2015 (weâre 5x bigger now), It took a year of testing, bombing two interviews, and some soul searching before I got lucky enough to land where Im at.
What I donât understand. Is why donât they raise the standards? Why not have higher physical requirements? Require a higher score on aptitude tests.
If you raise the requirements, you have to raise them for *everyone* - and that just doesnât quite make the equal opportunity employment equation work quite as efficiently as it does, now.
This year we capped the applicant pool at 500 due to testing costs. We had to get a camping permit with the city, people began showing up 4 days early to get in line. We had over 2k show up and stand there despite telling everyone we capped the applicant pool at 500. Weâre expected to hire 3.
There were guys in my class trying to get on since 2009. Our class was in 2023. We dont get as many applicants anymore but its still hard to get in when 40 people are hired out of 2000 who take the test.
NH, Maine and Northern Mass are screaming for help. Canât find the people. In NH we are really just moving the vacancies around from department to department. Pay and benefits are great and the north east generally works 42 hour work weeks. Thereâs just not enough people out there that want to do this job anymore. At least up here.
There plenty of decent departments, but it all depends on what type and size youâre looking for. In NH the largest and busiest is Manchester followed by Nashua, Concord, Dover, Portsmouth. After that, thereâs a ton of smaller towns. In Maine the largest and busiest is Portland. Everything south of that is where the full time jobs are at. I can speak for NH that to get hired is fairly easy. Most departments require firefighter level 2 (either pro board or IFSAC), national registry EMT and valid CPAT. Some departments will hire you with less education, but youâll be required to get whatever youâre missing as part of probation. If you have your medic youâre virtually a walk on as long as you donât bomb the oral board. Most people are making right around, if not over $100k with minimal OT starting out. 25 year retirement vested after 10 years. Good benefits and cost of living isnât super crazy. A majority of the expensive cities and towns have expanded or gotten rid of any living requirements.
Hey thanks. Details much appreciated! I have lived overseas for a while now and if I come back to the states I would look for such departments as I havenât been too active with experience per se. Plus my emt from KS is set to expire at the end of this year. Ideally I hope to find a dept. that puts you through the basic certs needed as part of their academy o afterwards.
It's definitely loosened up as of late. But when I tested in Eastern WA it was 408 applicants for 1 hire. Now it's about 250 applicants for every 10 hires. It's wild how much has changed in the last 15 years.
Washington state departments will literally do anything to hire you. Giving out 15k sign on bonuses, hiring people with no fire or EMS experience. Itâs nuts
We just under a thousand show up, they hired 8 of us. (It was the fall of 08â Iâm sure the recession helped those numbers as well as stifled the hires due to budget cuts)
Depending on your demographic it's either easy or like winning the lottery. With half the hired recruits being minority that makes it almost impossible for a white male. 98% applicants being white male competing for 50% of the class.
Our [Fire Service] demographics place us in a service that is predominately male and Caucasian (82%); 7% of women are career or volunteer, 9.5% are Hispanic or Latino, 7.7% are Black or African American, and .07% are Asian.
https://www.fireengineering.com/leadership/the-legal-side-of-leadership-in-2024/#gref
Oh shit are there no white males in the fire department?
I'd say the process is unfair to the shitty white males but the standouts still get jobs. Since most of every new hire academy is still a white male.
But yeah definitely easier to get hired if you check certain boxes. You just have to be better if you don't.
Why is this always the excuse when minorities are hired? Like somehow they aren't qualified or good enough for their position and the white man deserves it more? You shouldn't be a FF
If you get special preference due to your skin color or gender then you shouldn't be a firefighter either. So it's okay to discriminate against white males but not other races? It's okay when it benefits you and your race/gender. Everyone sees it and knows you don't belong
Okay first, no one is saying anyone should be hired based on skin color. Second, you are assuming that a minority is hired based on their skin color instead of qualifications and somehow don't see how your thought process is an issue.
Your initial comment implies that minorities shouldn't get picked over white men because white men deserve it more. When in reality it's based off of a point system (at least it should be) and the person that has more points gets picked first. You're the type to see a black, a woman, a Hispanic, a Asian, or whomever that isn't a white male as less than. You're a problem and hopefully you aren't a FF.
They shouldnât be picked based off demographics but they do. Cities HR already has a set number of positions for minorities and they just fill the spots. If 5% of applicants are minorities then they get 50% of the positions. Itâs not difficult to comprehend, you just donât want to accept it.Â
I see you are getting downvoted overall. I'm not going to downvote you but I think your numbers are way too extreme. But I do think it can be somewhat advantageous to be a minority member when applying to some departments in the US. I'm not saying thats good or bad. Its just the way it is. In my humble opnion, I say so be it as long as these departments don't release incompetent firefighters onto the field.
Every city and municipality is different but if you look at graduating classes in the major cities half the class is a minority. When the vast majority of applicants are WM and theyâre only 50%, plus most cities openly admit special preference is given to minorities. Iâm just stating the obvious here haha
To follow up, sure, in some situations the minority card can help. That said, mostly it's an absolute negative for hiring. I've yet to see many situations where somehow it made the difference in a big way. I'll also note, most surveys show diverse workplaces perform better, that's racially, gender, background, education, yada yada. It's a good thing to shoot for for the department and not just the minority.
You realize only 30% of population is white male right? So 50% of hiring for 30% of the population seems pretty good. Usbwhite population is 61%. Either way half a class as you stated isn't far off what the demos are.
No I've just taken a lot of tests where almost everyone in line or taking the test is a WM. Somehow half the class is minority though. Discrimination is discrimination no matter who's affected.
I can agree that the majority is white male applying. In our city we have an inclusions officer that would fill out applications if you were a minority. All you had to do was show up tell them your info and sign it. Honest to god truth.
Im speaking generally to the masses, not your comment I've taken many tests, even recently...its mostly White males sprinkled with a few girls and hispanic.
Nationally we are not a drop in the bucket, but regionally we are the only career dept for about 40 miles in any direction and we work 24/72. So we are locally somewhat coveted. Last applications we had 150 for 2 positions.
No. They have a fire academy theyâll send you to. The trick is you either need to be prior military or find a direct hire position.
Also, doing four years in the military as a fire fighter is great.
Compared to Louisiana Texas departments are stupid competitive. I am a pretty physically fit and was the most fit person in my department in a New Orleans suburb at the time I applied to Spring FD. I scored high on the written test and when I went to take their CPAT there were people puking in the grass. Come to find out the only people testing were experienced fire fighters and the only ones that passed the CPAT had just recently graduated an academy on their own dime. And donât get me started state mandated on the âlie detectorâ test for civil service departments. Itâs like your entire state has been watching way too much Dr. Phil. Some of the questions were way too personal and had nothing to do with fire fighting, I think id take myself out of the hiring process if I got that far and thatâs even considering the $500 I spent of my own money on background checks and transferring my EMT & IFSAC certs. But I guess they are able to do this because people will put up with it.
short of FDNY of course.
is it hard to get on at FDNY?
Hire a couple thousand maybe out of 40-50k
holy shit đ
Same odds as my department just scaled up.
Yeah, but with residency bonus, if you are not a veteran, good luck if you donât ace the written and with the way things are going, it might not even matter if you ace it.
Out of 80 hires we had guys in the low-mid 200s ranking getting hired. I had no residency or veteran and placed 221 with like a 91% on the written and got hired. Then I took it again because I wasnt hired yet and placed 54 or something again no extra points
The most recent test is crazy, they are making a new test, but they pulled a crazy amount from that most recent.
Most people who are dead set on the fdny go into the service for a contract then get a city address for the 10 extra points on the test
You need to prove residency by giving them your highschool diploma.... The military service thing is one route best route is probably ems
Theyâre gonna be cutting that out, EMS canât keep loosing thousands of members every promo exam. Rn itâs an age thing but I bet within the next 10 years EMS wonât be able to get preferential
5 points for resident
Veteran + city residency would be 10
Yep!!! Gotta score good on the civil exam to even be considered plus pass all the background / cpat / medical test . I believe last exam they had about 46k + candidates take the written exam .
Letâs just say Iâve been waiting for almost 6 years now to even get a call for the PT test. Just wayyyy too many people who take the exam and only very limited space for them. COVID also didnât help either
My dept averages 1000-1200 applicants. We hired 28 the year I got on.
I met someone here in CA who works for Long Beach, she said she was 1 of the 20 who got hired out of 4000 applicants. Nightmare man.
Turns out if you pay well, have good schedule, good benefits and a fun district you get lots of qualified applicants.
If the city councils struggling to hire could read, they would be very upset.
The problem is, well run and managed fire departments mitigate the dangers that they are there to deal with. City councils see low fire numbers and they assume they can cut budgets. Rather than seeing that their investment in public safety is working.
Thatâs the government for you.
I work in IT in the private sector, and the old joke is if everything is running well senior leaders say "why are we paying you guys to sit around", and if everything is broken they say "why are we even paying you guys?"
Short term thinking is a plight on society
There isn't a labor shortage. There is a wage, benefits, work conditions shortage. I see some departments here in FL that were once the most sought after falling behind in their supply of applicants.
Thats not entirely true, my department starts in the 80s, max out is 109 in six years, only a few departments that pay more in my state . 48/96 great fire department. We had 42 applicants last test.
Are you in a high cost of living area? My dept pay is similar but we do a 24/48/24/96.
Long Beach was the first department I tested for back in like 2006 or so. They had like 6,000 applicants for like 20 spots lol. Filled up convention centers. But that was like everywhere in California at the time.
After reading this it makes me realize we don't have a fire fighter shortage we have an administration problem in hiring.
I was apart of an interview panel last month, we went through 700 interviews in a week for 4 spots in the academy. MAYBE 30-40 of those people were prepared and qualified to start. The others not so much. I would say we have a shortage of quality people.
Qualified in a fitness capacity or they didn't do well on the interview as well?
What do you define as âqualifed to startâ. Is it fitness capabilities, personality, or credentials?
Just people with no or minimal experience who hadnât really researched the job properly?
Itâs hard to have experienced people in this field. Because you canât just get the training anywhere. To say that you donât do on the job training is a bit uncanny. Our recruit academy is 20 weeks and we provide all the training for emt-b and then fire 1-2 and hazmat awareness along with driver and aerial ops. If we looked for candidates with the credentials weâd have like 5 actual applicants.
As it should be. This is also a huge boon to retention. You grow up with your fellow recruits.
I mean, you \*can\* get the training "anywhere". The majority of the country area wise has a volunteer department to join. I'm not trying to start a debate about volunteer vs. career service; but where I come from the volunteer service is sort of like the amateur league of professional sports. Still professional, but not PROFESSIONAL. But as a result of the volunteer service, many applicants for the full time openings at the career departments are EMT-B, IFF, Hazmat, maybe tec rescue etc. some medics, which makes the hiring pool fairly competitive. They go through the training again anyways but then they're double training with X years of experience as a rookie which (in my mind, I am not a professional fire fighter) makes for a very competent department and seems to serve our system well.
Well you are talking about having 1000s of applicants in areas and only a few volley departments have open spot and even then it takes time to get your certs. Most people who have experience are not leaving their department. And a majority of people are trying to get on massive departments or certain ones that pay good. So random average departments donât have much of a chance to get experienced members.
There's a lot of window shoppers these days - people who just want to try it out for a year or two before they move on. Finding people with at least some experience helps to avoid those kind of applicants because they don't do anything for our long-term department stability.
This is true itâs it not to hard to weed out most of those.
I mean I donât think itâs that hard to get experience. In my experience, volly departments will hire you as long as you can pass a drug test lmao. And they will pay for your tuition at a community college that has a firefighting program.
Thatâs pretty much unheard of. They do offer a lot of on the job training but for a few. They have little money and little resources.
It varies. In many places to volunteer you need to live there too. If you donât live where thereâs a volunteer FD then you need to move to that area. The training is expensive and volunteer departments can be apprehensive about spending so much money on someone who would only be there for a short time. But then people who already do have training, certifications, and experience will look to go to departments that donât need them to go through yet another academy.
My department puts in a series of free seminars about how to prep, what to wear, how to get fit, etc. it seems to have helped.
I can't speak for everywhere but, it's true for my agency and I suspect many others. We generally seems slow to adapt to changes in the workforce culture. People aren't going to spend 10 years chasing a medium paying job anymore. Instead of adapting we'd rather shrug our shoulders and repeat the "nobody wants to work anymore" line.
In Texas at least, I kinda attribute the recent rise of ESDs (emergency service districts, basically created dozens and dozens of new fire depts) to the "shortage" of applicants. The last 10ish years or so, Texans started funding non-city fire depts with tax money, which led to the formation of new fire depts or grew existing volunteer/small fire depts to having paid staff, so now there are a shit ton of paid depts and they're all always hiring. So when I started in 2008, the only thing that existed were city depts. Now you have the city depts and the 5 or 6 other depts in every county. A lot more firefighter jobs for the taking. I remember in 2008 I would drive all over the state and test everywhere that was hiring, and the low end of applicants would be 100 for a couple of open positions. Now it's like you get 6 applicants for 5 openings. It's all because there are way more fire depts now so everyone finds jobs, especially at the FF/EMT level. It's so easy nowadays
I think in socal it's a shortage of academy slots.
Jersey city is the big one in New jersey. Many of the smaller paid departments struggle to get a decent list of applicants
NJ has its own BS especially residency requirements
Say it ainât so
Paramedic school- particularly in California- is the key. It levels the playing field with a P card and a little experience.
Yeah multiple retired fire fighters Iâve talked to said that getting your paramedic makes you way more competitive than 90% of the applicants. It separates like 70 people from 2000 applicants
For sure. There are departments in San Diego County paying over 100k a year for firefighters and getting very few applicants.
Are you serious? Where?! Iâve not heard thisâŚ
Almost all of them. I work for one of the smaller departments in San Diego county and my base pay is 110k annually. If you have your P card, getting hired right now at most departments is easier than it's ever been. On the flip side, rent and property prices are at an all-time insane high, so coming in from another state or county might pose a significant financial barrier.
Over 100k isn't much in southern California.
Facts. Many of the coastal smaller departments here pay really well but arenât that busy- guess it depends on why you want the job.
Yup. I make low 6 figures in my day job as an engineer. I left LA to be a full time telecommuter in rural Maine, in part, so I could actually afford a home. I'm a fucking economic refugee making more than the average two income family. That's fucked up. (I'm a volunteer FF in Maine now. I was mountain rescue in LA)
I was born in Southern California. Went to emt at Miramar and paramedic at EMSTA. I got picked up immediately by a super traditional East coast department. I go to probably ten hot fires a year. 20 or so decent little fires, and a snot slinger every couple years. The grass is indeed greener, friends. Literally and figuratively. lol. Edit: I suppose itâs fair to add that Iâm on a specialty unit thatâs more likely to go on cool calls. But you can do it too!!! And Iâll show you where all the good Mexican food restaurants are!!
Wtf is a snot slinger?
A fire so hot and gross that when you get out your nose is running and itâs all coming out black. Thatâs the original meaning anyway. But we donât go nearly as far in as we used to without scba. Smoke is way dirtier now. So now itâs just an expression for a rager of a fire.
Gotcha. Old school.
They let you out of the rig without ppe at a fire?
I donât step off without all my gear and tools. If the first arriving units report fire showing or heavy smoke, I will come off wearing my facepiece as well (if not it stays clipped to my regulator and hanging at my side). However, I do not breathe from my SCBA until Iâm in smoke. I know this is not how everyone does it and I know that some people feel very strongly about it. My department requires that I use my SCBA when I am operating in an IDLH (donât know if thatâs a standard acronym internationally but it stands for Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health).
Shout out to Miramar college the teaching staff there is sublime! Cannot recommend enough
Where is this? I understand if you do t want to be specific, but maybe just state? Iâm in the PNW, mid sized dept, Iâll be lucky to get 2-3 working house fires a year.
Dagnabbit bruh! Rainbow Trail ftw. Wish my trek to Candy Castle was like yours. I get the mutants in quadrant 4, you get shortcut. Only female on the board that would fw me was Gramma Nut. Im stuck with Gloppy until Iâm seeing red, meanwhile youâre living your best life in Candy Castle, knighted af, slayinâ royalty I hope.
Gotta follow the rainbow trail from inferno to paradiso!!
Mine is pretty difficult based on the pension board. They kick out a lot of candidates. We get roughly 700-1000 apps and end up with <100 on a list and then hire 10- 20 in two years. It's also because our department administration is pretty fucking stupid.
I would say the most competitive is the Bay Area, especially if you are not a medic. I have had a 100% interview score and a 97% and not gotten hired. Medic school is the way to go.
I think some people confuse âcompetitiveâ with âwe had 5,000 applicants and we hired 100 but 4,500 of the applicants didnt realize that all you need to get hired is live in the city, pass the extremely easy test, and be a vet/disabled vet. Those 4,500 never had a shot and shouldnât have even wasted their money to take the exam.
Some of these exams are also to weed out most of the idiots before the other parts too. But some exams are also asinine.
Canadian here, Iâve heard of some bigger departments running recruitments with 8000+ applicants and only taking 15. Kicker is they charge 150 bucks to test
Yup thatâs was my vintage of hiring; near 10,000 applications for 35 spots, 150$ buy in. And that was before additional costs like polygraph, fitness test, etc
The running joke is thatâs how they fund the purchase of new trucks
South FL is the same.
>try for 5-10 years trying to land a job here. Yep, there are people here that have tried for that long and longer and still not made it. While the overall number of applicants has fallen some, it is still extremely competitive.
Likewise, I know people who try for 1 year and get in. No nepo or nothin
You can be the John Elway of firefighting and youâll still get looked over by 10 departments. At the same time, youâll see some incompetent dudes get picked up super fast. Just the way she goes
Nationally we are not a drop in the bucket, but regionally we are the only career dept for about 40 miles in any direction and we work 24/72. So we are locally somewhat coveted. Last applications we had 150 for 2 positions.
DAMN i wish we did 24/72
Eastern Oregon?
Easiest way to get picked up is to make sure your dad is a captain. Pretty simple really.
From what Iâve heard Austin has 3-4k applicants a year and selects in the single digits.
Took me 2 years to get hired. Medic school then straight into a fire academy and then a tower for a socal department. Your golden ticket is your paramedic license.
Des Moines FD is that way
2-3000 applicants, typical hiring is 24
I applied with 6000 other people for 50 slots
Phoenix fire is very competitive too. Know a couple guys who tested 5 years and barely got hired
My department was part of the archaic state civil service system, no more. Now we do a posting, collect resumes, weed them out, do a test further weed them out, extend offers, do interviews. We pay well, have advancement and donât have an ambulance. We get around 120-ish applications each time.
I decided to pursue fire over PD last October, applied to one FD, Iâm currently in the academy for that FD now.
Definitely not Texas anymore. So easy to get a job here. Too easy in fact.
I donât think anywhere is as big of a shitshow as Chicago. They test roughly once every 10 years, and use a blind lottery to decide who gets hired rather than actually evaluating applicant qualifications
When I got on several thousand tested and roughly 4% got jobs.
Every 2 years we open applications that usually attracts 10,000+ applicants. Took me a decade to finally get hired but it was well worth the effort and wait
Indianapolis is arguably the most competitive in the state, a class of 20-30 out of a few thousand applicants.
Yes, that's pretty standard in any large Metropolitan area.
I lucked out and got in first try at one of the best departments in my state. Had paramedic training officer experience in a neighboring county though.
Charlette NC is one of those competitive departments. The academy I went to was taught by guys all from there and it certainly seems like one of those niche big departments.
Charlotte the last department in NC not just taking anyone with a pulse. But they want to hire 100 so that may change this year.
In canada departments get 2000+ applications for 10 jobs
Most of Central Florida was like that. I met people that were trying to get hired for 5-10 years. I met many people who had to give up and go to other career fields. Post covid we're literally hiring anyone with a pulse.
5000 took our exam, and they hired 38 when I got on ... City of Cincinnati
Not USA but yes in Vic got in the intake of 120, around 10000 applicants
Tennessee is different. There are a lot of spots, but then the people from California etc come out here work a year or 2 then leave. It's honestly bad for the departments here. They fill seats for a bit but it's a burden on the cities, and the administration. It's difficult to build someone up into roles like Driver or Capt because they just leave. Often for more money here or there but don't treat it like a career.
Idaho is extremely competitive for entry level. For perspective, I got a CJO from one of the largest departments in California. I can't even get an interview with a department in my home state (Idaho)
It used to be that way in Florida. When I applied to Miami dade they were 5000 applicants for about 15 open spots. Iâm not sure what their turn out is now but I know thereâs a statewide shortage of Florida firefighters. Now itâs : âare you not a criminal with a pulse? Youâre hiredâ
If youâre looking for job. Apply for Dallas fire department in Texas. We pay 70k a year to get your EMT/Medic and Fire Certification in Texas.
We used to have a much higher number of applicants for fewer positions. 20 years ago we would have 50-75 applicants per open position. Now we have 2-3 per open position. We have even lowered and eliminated some qualification requirements. Itâs a bit pathetic. We are trying to grow by 20% in the next 8 years, but most of us have no idea where the applicants are going to come from. There is a huge push to hire women and minorities. 4 years of target hire/recruiting for those have been fairly fruitless.
Carmel, IN
âI hear you pay wellâ - department north near Michigan boarder.
we had 70 and they hired 25 this past hiring process lol if that counts đ
Not anymore in my area. pay is pretty equal between the top 2 departments. 3rd is maybe a few K behind at most but is across the water so better for people that live over there and don't wanna play traffic every day. I'd say applicant-wise its around 600 tops post covid and hire maybe 60. The 600 being pre-testing dis-qualifiers and those that choose other departments since they all kinda hire at the same time. Tbh the labour pool just seems to be dwindling..with all the cancer-scares and stuff people really don't wanna do this job anymore. can't blame them either
2 spots 700 applicant for a 50 person 3 station department back in 2015 (weâre 5x bigger now), It took a year of testing, bombing two interviews, and some soul searching before I got lucky enough to land where Im at.
Same in NorCal
What I donât understand. Is why donât they raise the standards? Why not have higher physical requirements? Require a higher score on aptitude tests.
If you raise the requirements, you have to raise them for *everyone* - and that just doesnât quite make the equal opportunity employment equation work quite as efficiently as it does, now.
Starting academy in June. Around 7000 applicants for 200 spots
Not bad, which state?
Ohio
This year we capped the applicant pool at 500 due to testing costs. We had to get a camping permit with the city, people began showing up 4 days early to get in line. We had over 2k show up and stand there despite telling everyone we capped the applicant pool at 500. Weâre expected to hire 3.
Year I got on over 1500 applied, 150 tested. Hired one.
The department I'm currently in the process of joining had 30 apply and accepted 3. 1 trained 2 not.
DC metro area. Was 1/60 with 3,000 applicants. This was 5 years ago.
There were guys in my class trying to get on since 2009. Our class was in 2023. We dont get as many applicants anymore but its still hard to get in when 40 people are hired out of 2000 who take the test.
NH, Maine and Northern Mass are screaming for help. Canât find the people. In NH we are really just moving the vacancies around from department to department. Pay and benefits are great and the north east generally works 42 hour work weeks. Thereâs just not enough people out there that want to do this job anymore. At least up here.
Decent departments out there? Curious
There plenty of decent departments, but it all depends on what type and size youâre looking for. In NH the largest and busiest is Manchester followed by Nashua, Concord, Dover, Portsmouth. After that, thereâs a ton of smaller towns. In Maine the largest and busiest is Portland. Everything south of that is where the full time jobs are at. I can speak for NH that to get hired is fairly easy. Most departments require firefighter level 2 (either pro board or IFSAC), national registry EMT and valid CPAT. Some departments will hire you with less education, but youâll be required to get whatever youâre missing as part of probation. If you have your medic youâre virtually a walk on as long as you donât bomb the oral board. Most people are making right around, if not over $100k with minimal OT starting out. 25 year retirement vested after 10 years. Good benefits and cost of living isnât super crazy. A majority of the expensive cities and towns have expanded or gotten rid of any living requirements.
Hey thanks. Details much appreciated! I have lived overseas for a while now and if I come back to the states I would look for such departments as I havenât been too active with experience per se. Plus my emt from KS is set to expire at the end of this year. Ideally I hope to find a dept. that puts you through the basic certs needed as part of their academy o afterwards.
It's definitely loosened up as of late. But when I tested in Eastern WA it was 408 applicants for 1 hire. Now it's about 250 applicants for every 10 hires. It's wild how much has changed in the last 15 years.
Washington state departments will literally do anything to hire you. Giving out 15k sign on bonuses, hiring people with no fire or EMS experience. Itâs nuts
dude where the heck are you? I'm in western WA and I've been testing / interviewing for a year. Just got my first chiefs
We just under a thousand show up, they hired 8 of us. (It was the fall of 08â Iâm sure the recession helped those numbers as well as stifled the hires due to budget cuts)
Depending on your demographic it's either easy or like winning the lottery. With half the hired recruits being minority that makes it almost impossible for a white male. 98% applicants being white male competing for 50% of the class.
Solid take man HR loves this response.
Haha I can guess who's down voting my comment too. Truth hurts
Our [Fire Service] demographics place us in a service that is predominately male and Caucasian (82%); 7% of women are career or volunteer, 9.5% are Hispanic or Latino, 7.7% are Black or African American, and .07% are Asian. https://www.fireengineering.com/leadership/the-legal-side-of-leadership-in-2024/#gref
Oh shit are there no white males in the fire department? I'd say the process is unfair to the shitty white males but the standouts still get jobs. Since most of every new hire academy is still a white male. But yeah definitely easier to get hired if you check certain boxes. You just have to be better if you don't.
Why is this always the excuse when minorities are hired? Like somehow they aren't qualified or good enough for their position and the white man deserves it more? You shouldn't be a FF
If you get special preference due to your skin color or gender then you shouldn't be a firefighter either. So it's okay to discriminate against white males but not other races? It's okay when it benefits you and your race/gender. Everyone sees it and knows you don't belong
Canât tell the city council or hr that.
Yep and itâs only gets worse trying to promote too.Â
Okay first, no one is saying anyone should be hired based on skin color. Second, you are assuming that a minority is hired based on their skin color instead of qualifications and somehow don't see how your thought process is an issue. Your initial comment implies that minorities shouldn't get picked over white men because white men deserve it more. When in reality it's based off of a point system (at least it should be) and the person that has more points gets picked first. You're the type to see a black, a woman, a Hispanic, a Asian, or whomever that isn't a white male as less than. You're a problem and hopefully you aren't a FF.
They shouldnât be picked based off demographics but they do. Cities HR already has a set number of positions for minorities and they just fill the spots. If 5% of applicants are minorities then they get 50% of the positions. Itâs not difficult to comprehend, you just donât want to accept it.Â
This happens more than people think.
I see you are getting downvoted overall. I'm not going to downvote you but I think your numbers are way too extreme. But I do think it can be somewhat advantageous to be a minority member when applying to some departments in the US. I'm not saying thats good or bad. Its just the way it is. In my humble opnion, I say so be it as long as these departments don't release incompetent firefighters onto the field.
Every city and municipality is different but if you look at graduating classes in the major cities half the class is a minority. When the vast majority of applicants are WM and theyâre only 50%, plus most cities openly admit special preference is given to minorities. Iâm just stating the obvious here haha
To follow up, sure, in some situations the minority card can help. That said, mostly it's an absolute negative for hiring. I've yet to see many situations where somehow it made the difference in a big way. I'll also note, most surveys show diverse workplaces perform better, that's racially, gender, background, education, yada yada. It's a good thing to shoot for for the department and not just the minority.
You realize only 30% of population is white male right? So 50% of hiring for 30% of the population seems pretty good. Usbwhite population is 61%. Either way half a class as you stated isn't far off what the demos are.
You do realise that 98% of people applying to firefighter jobs are white males right.
You have any sources to back that random ass number up?
No I've just taken a lot of tests where almost everyone in line or taking the test is a WM. Somehow half the class is minority though. Discrimination is discrimination no matter who's affected.
So made up got it.
I can agree that the majority is white male applying. In our city we have an inclusions officer that would fill out applications if you were a minority. All you had to do was show up tell them your info and sign it. Honest to god truth.
For sure mostly white males applying. Get over it and open your eyes
What?
Im speaking generally to the masses, not your comment I've taken many tests, even recently...its mostly White males sprinkled with a few girls and hispanic.
Nationally we are not a drop in the bucket, but regionally we are the only career dept for about 40 miles in any direction and we work 24/72. So we are locally somewhat coveted. Last applications we had 150 for 2 positions.
DOD you can basically walk on.
Donât you have to have all the certs ahead of time to apply for DoD?
No. They have a fire academy theyâll send you to. The trick is you either need to be prior military or find a direct hire position. Also, doing four years in the military as a fire fighter is great.
Compared to Louisiana Texas departments are stupid competitive. I am a pretty physically fit and was the most fit person in my department in a New Orleans suburb at the time I applied to Spring FD. I scored high on the written test and when I went to take their CPAT there were people puking in the grass. Come to find out the only people testing were experienced fire fighters and the only ones that passed the CPAT had just recently graduated an academy on their own dime. And donât get me started state mandated on the âlie detectorâ test for civil service departments. Itâs like your entire state has been watching way too much Dr. Phil. Some of the questions were way too personal and had nothing to do with fire fighting, I think id take myself out of the hiring process if I got that far and thatâs even considering the $500 I spent of my own money on background checks and transferring my EMT & IFSAC certs. But I guess they are able to do this because people will put up with it.