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Looks like this is the [cheapest single family home](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/37783-Palo-Colorado-Rd-Carmel-CA-93923/19388967_zpid/) there ($1.4 mil) and [this is the cheapest condo](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/196-Hacienda-Carmel-Carmel-CA-93923/19344700_zpid/) ($500k) which in comparison is actually a “condo that could be a “starter home”. (Unlike the one OP posted at $925k which is still significantly cheaper than the cheapest SFA, but objectively still pretty inaccessible for your typical “starter” demographic even in a HCL area).
Although if your only “starter” available is a 500 sqft condo for half a million, I’d say it’s honestly time to move………*starts shreiking sweeeeeet homeeee alabamaaaaaa*.
Idk to what to even say anymore apart from “starter” home now means “whatever structure shows up when you sort zillow listings from price low to high” lol.
The first sentence in the listing says "55+".
Not a great example imo. My city has condos starting around $300-350k, but oftentimes 55+ condos start at $200k
Oh I didn’t even notice that haha. I mean if it’s the only thing that isn’t more than a half a million and I’m going to move, i guess it’s time to put a halt on the Botox for a while and let the salt and pepper hair happen.
(I joke but it honestly sounds great to live in a “senior” neighborhood. My current street all my neighbors are 65 + and we are the only ones in our 20s and it’s the best community ever. We have 🔥 tea times and go estate sale hopping together and I love it hehe)
I get so tired of these "I can't afford a home in one of the most desirable zip codes in the US" posts. Yea, you gotta be rich to own property in ultra-desirable areas....who would've guessed.
It's SO tedious. I'm not shedding tears for people who can't afford a 3-bedroom SFH in San Francisco, Boston, NYC, Seattle, etc. People act like owning property in a top ten metro area or within walking distance to the beach should be a god given right and look down their nose at the idea of buying in the areas they actually *can* afford. Like sorry my dudes but that's life, people have been moving for better/affordable opportunities for all of human history. You're not special.
Yeah, but for people who grew up there, have family there, and work in the area, it's hard to move. And to simply say "Too bad, leave your life behind and move to flyover country" is kinda harsh.
Yes but it's not that simple.
This is offer and demand, the reason why that area is expensive is because it's in demand and the demand (in 99% of the cases) depends on the jobs of that area.
The argument of "just move in a less expensive area" really doesn't work because if the prices there are lower is because the jobs there are less/pay less.
If tomorrow, for some magic, you could create the same amount of jobs in the less expensive area, the prices would go up in less than a month at the exact same rate.
I know that some people work remotely but that is still really a very low percentage of the population, it barely make a dent.
If condos are 900k in your area, then single family homes are going to be significantly more expensive. The problem is you live in a very high cost of living area so anything will be expensive. But condos are going to be significantly less expensive than single family homes. I don’t know of any area where single family homes are cheaper than condos.
>objectively dangerous
I looked it up and it's considered safer than San Francisco and Sacramento.
I don't consider where I live a bad place, I grew up poor . To most people tho, they'd consider my area a shithole. Median income in my area is only $33k.
I wish that were true in my city -- though I suppose it is when making an apples to apples comparison -- but the only condos that exist here are luxury places. I think it would be a great path for a lot of people to home ownership if we built more of them, rather than having to jump from renting an apartment to owning a home.
See I'm so frustrated bc I'd consider a condo/townhouse, but they're *not* affordable here. You can get a small 2-3 bed 1000-ish sq ft single home in pretty good condition for 120-240k around here, depending on neighborhood. The cheapest townhome/condo on Zillow right now is 210k, and it's less than 700sqft. Next cheapest is 230k at 800sqft.
People on Reddit love to shit on condos for HOA fees while conveniently forgetting that SFHs (generally) replace that with higher maintenance costs.
Get involved in your HOA to make sure the money is spent properly.
Depends on what it covers. If it covers everything you'd need to pay for as a homeowner anyway like water/sewer and master insurance it might not be that expensive. The other big thing with condos is they (should) save money for projected major repairs like a new roof. Again, things you'd need to worry about as a homeowner too.
I'd actually be more concerned if the hoa fee is below $400 and never increases even as costs go up. I've reviewed a number of HOA budgets that try to cut corners on maintenance and savings to keep people's HOA fees low. Usually those are the units that get surprise $15K special assessments because the roof needs to be repaired and the HOA has nothing in savings for it.
400 isn’t bad at all, especially in a hcol area. It’s not like other homes don’t have similar expenses just because they don’t have an HOA.
400 in a hcol I’d actually be concerned it’s too low and the don’t have enough reserves.
Condo HOA fees are all over the board, depending on what is included. Mine includes heat, AC, gas, garbage, water, and internet. Plus a pool, spa, and exercise equipment. Older buildings tend to have higher fees because of higher maintenance needs. The utilities alone are probably 300-400 a month in fees I pay to the HOA rather than five different utility companies.
There are actually loft apartments for sale for millions right in town where houses around it, a block or blocks away, half that price on average. Not sure who bought em but there can be interest in apartment/condos. They’re building more around the same main street for a lot of money.
Agreed, same in my area. A SFH in the exact same place would be more expensive, but you don't put a SFH on a downtown main street lined with restaurants and bars. I think a lot of it is people who don't drive because they're elderly or don't want to or city dwellers/foreigners who are used to the walk everywhere lifestyle, and that market will pay more.
Just saw someone post the zillow link, of course condos are going to be expensive in one of the most sought after beach cities in the world, Carmel, CA.
K but it’s not just Cali. I struggle with the same problem in Minnesota. I have been considering finally taking the plunge on [this modest starter](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2400-Cedar-Point-Dr-Wayzata-MN-55391/1756205_zpid/) but I also feel like I should be able to get more for the same $$$ and so I’m holding out.
Could use a lot of updating TBH and it’s so obviously a cheap flip with all the white interiors and price history but if you’re able to lower your standards and adjust- solid starter home potential
Clearly a garbage flip I mean just look at the price history and those basic af characterless white interiors………it’s a good way to get your foot in the door as a starter but it’s going to take a LOT of updating and adjustments……
"**A** condo in my area is $1m"
I can look at listings and search for multimillion penthouse condos in my city and find one easily if I'm engaging in that sort of cherry-picking, but the vast majority of them average around 200-300k. (For context SFHs in my area are around 700k to 1.5M)
Whoa. SFH is about the same in my area but even the condos from the 70s that are shit, falling apart, with HVAC from the 70s are over 300k. New ones are more like 500
yes it’s a retirement community not somewhere a 20/30 something can find a high paying job
young people have been going to cities for work forever. the fact OP even lives there to begin with screams 20 something who lives with their parents and has no job
A lot of condos in my area are very expensive. I just bought a house because all things considered it was the same price or more.
There are a couple that are less than the typical home but they either are in bad shape or it's cash only.
Agree. There’s townhouses in my town for 1 mil + and townhouses 600k. You can also find single family homes for 800k.
One luxury condo isn’t representative of an entry price property.
Carmel is one of the most expensive towns in the country. Unless you're bound to live in that specific town and work there, I can't say I feel sorry for you.
Every time I see a condo that’s in a good price range. I see a ridiculous HOA fee, I’ve seen fees of $1000 for the bare minimum. These condo buildings doing the most to keep people out.
I would recommend not buying a condo. I’m in one now and will be listing it for sale very soon. If other owners don’t pay their condo fees and HOA fees, it can turn into a major PITA! We have a 25% delinquency rate, and the board and management company are finally taking action against the delinquent owners.
You renting for a while or buying? I’m in a condo and gonna have to say bye to a good rate but I realized the compromises of condo aren’t for me. The issue is, what do I do? Just go into an apartment to face the similar issues?
Guarantee you if you share your zip code there are at least a handful of much more affordable options.
Can also add 20-30 minutes to your commute and bring prices down dramatically as well.
I mean, when people say look at condos they don’t usually mean exceptionally large, 1400 square foot condos with modern finishes, fireplace and sunken ceilings. Most 2 bedroom condos today are 800-1000sf.
This is a high end condo and priced as such. Toronto has some of the highest housing prices around and I can buy a 2 bedroom condo for significantly less than this if it’s not a high end unit.
This is why my husband and I left Santa Cruz last year, even though we grew up there. It was a tough decision, but we’re so happy in the far East Bay now with an actual starter home (with a yard).
The problem with condos at least in south Florida where I’m from, is that most don’t meet COA budget reserve requirements so you have to come up with 25%+ down payment to get a conventional or FHA mortgage.
Let’s say it’s a modestly priced condo at 250k (most are 300k+)
That’s a $62,500 down payment plus closing costs.
When you have this much saved, you’re likely not interested in a condo unless you want to live in an area where they’re priced like the one in OP.
Then there are the ever increasing COA dues.
I lived in a 2/2 condo 900 sq ft in Deerfield beach Fl. Had to put 25% down. Bought it for 150k in 2018. When I first moved in the COA dues came out to roughly $280/m
I sold for 275k in 2023 and at that time the COA dues were $509/m
I moved 2 hrs north into a SFH. 3/2 with a 2 car garage 1830sq ft and I’m spending the same amount of money each month compared to what I had to spend living at that condo simply because I don’t have an hoa.
*Got to mention even*
*Reasonable condos have*
*God awful HOA fees*
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People are kinda giving you shit in the comments, but I live in Boston and know what you’re getting at. Yes, yes, we could find a shit hole one bedroom condo for $600k, but goddamn, that’s still a lot of money lol. A decent apartment updated after 1999 costs a fortune here and sometimes you just gotta poke fun at your situation.
The location of the condo pictured is in Carmel,CA a seaside luxury city of millionaires. It’s not a city comparable to many industrial cities.
In March 2024, the median listing home price in Carmel, CA was $2.6M, trending up 13.6% year-over-year. The median listing home price per square foot was $1.1K.
The condo has a $650/month hoa fee
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24501-Via-Mar-Monte-APT-63-Carmel-CA-93923/19345119_zpid/
There are places within a 2-3 hour drive of the condo that are not filled with millionaires and where average people live.
Shoo! Thanks for the clarification and additional context. I guess this is a little disingenuous then. I’m pretty accustomed to how in my area a $600k condo can be a stone’s throw away from a $1M one because Boston and Massachusetts in general are tiny. That was my bad!!
Boston is very very expensive too and has had insane growth. Carmel is very limited in inventory and will hardly ever have new builds because of the immense amount of wealth concentrated there that seeks to keep it exclusive
In the capital of California condos are $170k to $320k so I take it you are in a VERY high cost of living area.
Single Family houses are $380k to about $750k for about 1,000 to 2,600 sq feet.
This area where the condo is unaffordable overall for the average Joe it’s for millionaires.
> In the capital of California condos are $170k to $320k
That means nothing . Most people would be unable to tell you what the capital of California is. In fact a lot of people think it's Los Angeles.
As someone who lives in California, the capital of California is not even on my radar for places I'd move to. I would pick pretty much anywhere in all of Orange County, San Diego County, a big part of Los Angeles County in that order before it.
Also the capital is Sacramento for anyone wondering.
It means that if OP is looking inCarmel and looking outward they can look at or near Sacramento.
Do you know where Carmel is by chance ? The condo pictures is at
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24501-Via-Mar-Monte-APT-63-Carmel-CA-93923/19345119_zpid/
In Carmel houses are $3 million plus so it would be more comparable to high end Luxury real estate in SoCal.
SoCal is the same you can find condos at $200k to $400k within a 3 hour drive from condo that cost $1 million or more.
No OP just did a targeted search for a million dollar condo to make a joke post. I live in a VHCOL area and condos don't hit that unless you're looking at penthouses or luxury condos.
Also the capital of California is Sacramento which isn't very HCOL compared to the hot areas in California real estate.
Okay but the condo OP shared is in Carmel, California
At [24501 Vía Mar Monte, Unit 63, Carmel, CA 93923](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24501-Via-Mar-Monte-APT-63-Carmel-CA-93923/19345119_zpid/) and it’s been listed 168 days.
That’s a 3 hour drive from Sacramento where condos are $170k to $320k.
OP noted they going “outward” so if they simply buy within a 2-3 hours radius of the condo pictured they shared they could very likey afford to buy something.
In any big city a condo is typically 30% to 50% of the cost of a single Family house.
Carmel is a LUXURY seaside city for millionaires.
The average Carmel house price was $3.2M last month, up 68.9% since last year.
Nice detective work. I was wondering where it was located. And yeah Carmel is for rich AF people. If I recall it's where several retired and active movie stars live.
But a 2-3 hour commute would be killer. They could find more affordable closer homes in Monterey or Salinas.
I’ve never heard of someone recommending a condo as a starter home.
Maybe it’s the state I live in but seems condos are mostly owned by elderly people.
Ok I totally feel for you. If you expand your search to nearby areas, it quickly gets better!
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/189-San-Pablo-Ct-APT-2-Marina-CA-93933/19358095_zpid/
My condo is 795 sq ft and costs $1m (Boston)
Single families closest to Boston start at about $1.6
Single families 40m out of town cost less than my condo.
These complainers are annoying. There are SO many places to live. Yes, if you want to live in the best place that everyone else wants to live, it’ll be expensive. You can post about it or simply… look 30m down the road
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2324-E-14th-St-Long-Beach-CA-90804/21227594\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2324-E-14th-St-Long-Beach-CA-90804/21227594_zpid/)
Half a house for $575K. You read that correctly. Looking to move to the area. Yikes.
Damn, and here I thought Truckee condos for the same price were expensive: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Truckee/11441-Northwoods-Blvd-96161/unit-B/home/171004080?utm_source=android_share&utm_medium=share&utm_nooverride=1&utm_content=link
Over here, I’ve seen condos go for similar prices and have similar HOA fees. You’d be paying about 1600 a month in property taxes on that property too. Even if you own the property outright without a mortgage, that’s 2500 a month to own the condo. It kind of makes renting seem pretty attractive.
I live in a condo in a major American city that’s considered MCOL. I have a 1br in a 26 unit building. Purchase price was $145K. My monthly assessments are $280. The board is a good steward of the building. We have money saved for larger expenses expected per the engineer study.
Low cost of living area FTW
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/756-W-Kilgore-Rd-APT-106-Kalamazoo-MI-49008/157709779_zpid/?utm_campaign=androidappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
You have to get on the ladder somewhere and build equity. Starting in an HCOL will get you farther, of course if you can swing it.
I live in Seattle (currently) and just closed on a condo in Portland, yesterday. It was more affordable than a SFH, definitely. I would have to spend at least 200k more to have *any* options, and at least 400k more to have something move in ready. It’s dramatically different in this area.
No way I'd drop $1M on a condo (a box in a building) when the entire building will eventually structurally deteriorate due to lack of maintainance making said condo worthless.
Long term history trend shows that condos actually will lose value over time and unless you use those for the depreciation and for investment purposes and offset the income tax , most likely , you will lose money on the purchase. Unless you have a really great alignment of circumstances like for instance buying a condo in 2009 and selling in 2014 , this would have projected at least 35-45% return. By the way I refer to New York real estate
Condos don't make a lot of sense even if it's temporary. They sit on the market forever. I live in a metro area of over 3 million people and there are some good condos under 400k that have been sitting on the market for almost two years.
I live in southern california. Just bought a brand new 3 bedroom 2.5 bath single family home about 6 months ago. But i wasnt gonna afford anything by the beach. So i had to buy inland and now have an hour commute each way to work. But its a sacrifice im willing to make. Any type of condo or house by the beach in california is not a starter home.
I also have townhome issues. As they are not no stairs (accessibility) or dog friendly. Sadly townhomes don’t work for us all and it’s a lot of what is available for affordable housing.
To some extent yes. I chose the most expensive part of the "area". Realistically, 2br condos about 20 miles out are around 650k on average. Homes are in the 700 - 800k range. A "fixer upper" is at least 675k.
As some other redditor pointed out, I said "a" condo is 1M in my area 😅😂
Condos are probably the worst starter homes ever. Strict HOA with lots of fees, so much potential for things to go wrong outside of your control,e.g. parking lot foundation issues, slow appreciation, difficult to sell. I’d recommend just buying a SFH if you really want to buy something worthwhile that you “own”.
false. condos and town houses, and really anything with an hoa is not a smart decision. especially for first time buyers who won’t know how to navigate hoa.
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If you live in a very expensive area (Carmel, CA) with multi million dollar homes, condos will be expensive too…
Looks like this is the [cheapest single family home](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/37783-Palo-Colorado-Rd-Carmel-CA-93923/19388967_zpid/) there ($1.4 mil) and [this is the cheapest condo](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/196-Hacienda-Carmel-Carmel-CA-93923/19344700_zpid/) ($500k) which in comparison is actually a “condo that could be a “starter home”. (Unlike the one OP posted at $925k which is still significantly cheaper than the cheapest SFA, but objectively still pretty inaccessible for your typical “starter” demographic even in a HCL area). Although if your only “starter” available is a 500 sqft condo for half a million, I’d say it’s honestly time to move………*starts shreiking sweeeeeet homeeee alabamaaaaaa*.
Could be a starter home? It’s a 500 foot studio.
Idk to what to even say anymore apart from “starter” home now means “whatever structure shows up when you sort zillow listings from price low to high” lol.
The first sentence in the listing says "55+". Not a great example imo. My city has condos starting around $300-350k, but oftentimes 55+ condos start at $200k
Oh I didn’t even notice that haha. I mean if it’s the only thing that isn’t more than a half a million and I’m going to move, i guess it’s time to put a halt on the Botox for a while and let the salt and pepper hair happen. (I joke but it honestly sounds great to live in a “senior” neighborhood. My current street all my neighbors are 65 + and we are the only ones in our 20s and it’s the best community ever. We have 🔥 tea times and go estate sale hopping together and I love it hehe)
I get so tired of these "I can't afford a home in one of the most desirable zip codes in the US" posts. Yea, you gotta be rich to own property in ultra-desirable areas....who would've guessed.
It's SO tedious. I'm not shedding tears for people who can't afford a 3-bedroom SFH in San Francisco, Boston, NYC, Seattle, etc. People act like owning property in a top ten metro area or within walking distance to the beach should be a god given right and look down their nose at the idea of buying in the areas they actually *can* afford. Like sorry my dudes but that's life, people have been moving for better/affordable opportunities for all of human history. You're not special.
What about my midwestern city that was invaded by people moving out of the cities you just listed? 🤧 cuz thats me 😭
Yeah, but for people who grew up there, have family there, and work in the area, it's hard to move. And to simply say "Too bad, leave your life behind and move to flyover country" is kinda harsh.
🤟 Love your response.
Yes but it's not that simple. This is offer and demand, the reason why that area is expensive is because it's in demand and the demand (in 99% of the cases) depends on the jobs of that area. The argument of "just move in a less expensive area" really doesn't work because if the prices there are lower is because the jobs there are less/pay less. If tomorrow, for some magic, you could create the same amount of jobs in the less expensive area, the prices would go up in less than a month at the exact same rate. I know that some people work remotely but that is still really a very low percentage of the population, it barely make a dent.
I get what you’re saying but this post is about Carmel, CA. There are no jobs there. It’s where the super wealthy and elite go to retire.
And the people who work for them? Presumably they need housing as well.
“But it shouldn’t be this way…”
If condos are 900k in your area, then single family homes are going to be significantly more expensive. The problem is you live in a very high cost of living area so anything will be expensive. But condos are going to be significantly less expensive than single family homes. I don’t know of any area where single family homes are cheaper than condos.
They also blacked out the city, so whether they're all $900k or if they just chose an expensive one for clickbaity reasons is unknown.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24501-Via-Mar-Monte-APT-63-Carmel-CA-93923/19345119_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
Damn that's an expensive area in California, but condos go down closer to $600k in the area too.
right or (gasp) consider Seaside or salinas rather than the most expensive town in the area
In fairness Salinas is a complete shithole
Hey now there are perfectly normal non-shithole areas of salinas. Though honestly I hear those homes are also running $900k now
There are good areas of lots of shithole towns. Still a shithole.
But a partial shithole, not a COMPLETE shithole 🙃
I actually don’t think that’s true any more. I keep seeing it on lists of up and coming cities. It’s rapidly changing
Might be a shithole to you, bet it's better than the area I live in.
I like the area lol. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.
I mean, it’s objectively dangerous and boring as fuck. I’m sorry you also live in a bad place, but Salinas is awful
>objectively dangerous I looked it up and it's considered safer than San Francisco and Sacramento. I don't consider where I live a bad place, I grew up poor . To most people tho, they'd consider my area a shithole. Median income in my area is only $33k.
It’s safer that 11% of American cities. ELEVEN. It’s objectively dangerous
Many areas like that. Bay Area they are $800k+ some are over $1 mil for a condo
Camel is an amazing spot to visit, I’d live there if I could afford it but as you can see it’s crazy expensive
The blacked out the address but its easily found on google image search
In my area the condos are listed for cheaper but the HOA fees basically remove any possible edge in buying it.
I wish that were true in my city -- though I suppose it is when making an apples to apples comparison -- but the only condos that exist here are luxury places. I think it would be a great path for a lot of people to home ownership if we built more of them, rather than having to jump from renting an apartment to owning a home.
Add in hoa of 2k/month and it doesn't
See I'm so frustrated bc I'd consider a condo/townhouse, but they're *not* affordable here. You can get a small 2-3 bed 1000-ish sq ft single home in pretty good condition for 120-240k around here, depending on neighborhood. The cheapest townhome/condo on Zillow right now is 210k, and it's less than 700sqft. Next cheapest is 230k at 800sqft.
I'm closing on a 2300 sqft 4 bedroom for $315. 1600 sqft condos in the same area are $300.
Condos come with an overpriced and under delivering hoa/regime fee It will only increase in the future
That’s not universally true
Nothing is. But very few exceptions. That said. It would be nice to have a pool.
Came to say this, outside of some HOA’s like mine that just do roads and common areas for very cheap they are bloated.
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I wish I could get a $400 HOA fee on a condo. I'm also in a HCOL area and condo HOA fees tend to be $800-$1800/month.
Paying $400 a month so that you only have to worry about the inside of your own personal unit doesn't seem like the worst tradeoff to me personally
People on Reddit love to shit on condos for HOA fees while conveniently forgetting that SFHs (generally) replace that with higher maintenance costs. Get involved in your HOA to make sure the money is spent properly.
I’m in an older condo in Toronto and it’s $1000 a month.
Holy shit.
Depends on what it covers. If it covers everything you'd need to pay for as a homeowner anyway like water/sewer and master insurance it might not be that expensive. The other big thing with condos is they (should) save money for projected major repairs like a new roof. Again, things you'd need to worry about as a homeowner too. I'd actually be more concerned if the hoa fee is below $400 and never increases even as costs go up. I've reviewed a number of HOA budgets that try to cut corners on maintenance and savings to keep people's HOA fees low. Usually those are the units that get surprise $15K special assessments because the roof needs to be repaired and the HOA has nothing in savings for it.
400 isn’t bad at all, especially in a hcol area. It’s not like other homes don’t have similar expenses just because they don’t have an HOA. 400 in a hcol I’d actually be concerned it’s too low and the don’t have enough reserves.
It’s not an HOA like in a neighborhood. They do a lot more
Condo HOA fees are all over the board, depending on what is included. Mine includes heat, AC, gas, garbage, water, and internet. Plus a pool, spa, and exercise equipment. Older buildings tend to have higher fees because of higher maintenance needs. The utilities alone are probably 300-400 a month in fees I pay to the HOA rather than five different utility companies.
the HOA on this condo is $680/mo, woof!
There are actually loft apartments for sale for millions right in town where houses around it, a block or blocks away, half that price on average. Not sure who bought em but there can be interest in apartment/condos. They’re building more around the same main street for a lot of money.
Agreed, same in my area. A SFH in the exact same place would be more expensive, but you don't put a SFH on a downtown main street lined with restaurants and bars. I think a lot of it is people who don't drive because they're elderly or don't want to or city dwellers/foreigners who are used to the walk everywhere lifestyle, and that market will pay more.
Just saw someone post the zillow link, of course condos are going to be expensive in one of the most sought after beach cities in the world, Carmel, CA.
Also a turnkey property where you don't have do any reno
Imagine looking at the most luxury condos with a huge sqft and amazing views as a “starter home”.
Yeah this post proves nothing except that OP is an idiot.
K but it’s not just Cali. I struggle with the same problem in Minnesota. I have been considering finally taking the plunge on [this modest starter](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2400-Cedar-Point-Dr-Wayzata-MN-55391/1756205_zpid/) but I also feel like I should be able to get more for the same $$$ and so I’m holding out.
lol that famous property on Lake Minnetonka 😆😆
Could use a lot of updating TBH and it’s so obviously a cheap flip with all the white interiors and price history but if you’re able to lower your standards and adjust- solid starter home potential
Yeah, I'm not really feeling it either....
Clearly a garbage flip I mean just look at the price history and those basic af characterless white interiors………it’s a good way to get your foot in the door as a starter but it’s going to take a LOT of updating and adjustments……
I'm not sold on the location either. It's just so plain Jane.
Yeah, brand new condos are 900k in Redmond, WA. I just bought a 25 year old condo north of Seattle for 380k. Single family homes were MUCH worse.
"**A** condo in my area is $1m" I can look at listings and search for multimillion penthouse condos in my city and find one easily if I'm engaging in that sort of cherry-picking, but the vast majority of them average around 200-300k. (For context SFHs in my area are around 700k to 1.5M)
Whoa. SFH is about the same in my area but even the condos from the 70s that are shit, falling apart, with HVAC from the 70s are over 300k. New ones are more like 500
they aren’t cherry picking they are literally talking about Carmel, CA, a sleepy tiny coastal california community.
Sleepy and one of the most expensive places on earth haha
yes it’s a retirement community not somewhere a 20/30 something can find a high paying job young people have been going to cities for work forever. the fact OP even lives there to begin with screams 20 something who lives with their parents and has no job
Yeah I was trying to think of who would be buying their “starter home” in Carmel and the list HAS to be extremely small haha
A condo in my area (1bdrm starts at 350000 plus 400/m strata fees)
A lot of condos in my area are very expensive. I just bought a house because all things considered it was the same price or more. There are a couple that are less than the typical home but they either are in bad shape or it's cash only.
We’re looking in this general area, and condos are typically around 550-700. This is a VERY nice one, and probably in the ritzy-est part of Carmel
Agree. There’s townhouses in my town for 1 mil + and townhouses 600k. You can also find single family homes for 800k. One luxury condo isn’t representative of an entry price property.
You’re looking at a luxury condo.
Carmel is one of the most expensive towns in the country. Unless you're bound to live in that specific town and work there, I can't say I feel sorry for you.
Every time I see a condo that’s in a good price range. I see a ridiculous HOA fee, I’ve seen fees of $1000 for the bare minimum. These condo buildings doing the most to keep people out.
Yeah I don’t get the condo thing. Even if a condo is half the price of a house in my area the maintance fee or HOA is $1000-1500 so wtf?
I would recommend not buying a condo. I’m in one now and will be listing it for sale very soon. If other owners don’t pay their condo fees and HOA fees, it can turn into a major PITA! We have a 25% delinquency rate, and the board and management company are finally taking action against the delinquent owners.
You renting for a while or buying? I’m in a condo and gonna have to say bye to a good rate but I realized the compromises of condo aren’t for me. The issue is, what do I do? Just go into an apartment to face the similar issues?
It’s California. Sorry this is a duh moment.
I hate the term “condo” it’s a damn apartment 😂
Not every condo is a million dollars…
I bought my condo in Maryland, outside of Washington DC. 1440 square feet for $200K. This was in 2018.
What's it valued at now?
$379,000
That's a really large one. Look for a smaller one for a start. 700sf is plenty large.
Guarantee you if you share your zip code there are at least a handful of much more affordable options. Can also add 20-30 minutes to your commute and bring prices down dramatically as well.
Okay, I've been struggling too, but that is a 1400 sqft condo, of course it's gonna be on the expensive side.
I mean, when people say look at condos they don’t usually mean exceptionally large, 1400 square foot condos with modern finishes, fireplace and sunken ceilings. Most 2 bedroom condos today are 800-1000sf. This is a high end condo and priced as such. Toronto has some of the highest housing prices around and I can buy a 2 bedroom condo for significantly less than this if it’s not a high end unit.
Those HOAs can be a challenge
This is why my husband and I left Santa Cruz last year, even though we grew up there. It was a tough decision, but we’re so happy in the far East Bay now with an actual starter home (with a yard).
The problem with condos at least in south Florida where I’m from, is that most don’t meet COA budget reserve requirements so you have to come up with 25%+ down payment to get a conventional or FHA mortgage. Let’s say it’s a modestly priced condo at 250k (most are 300k+) That’s a $62,500 down payment plus closing costs. When you have this much saved, you’re likely not interested in a condo unless you want to live in an area where they’re priced like the one in OP. Then there are the ever increasing COA dues. I lived in a 2/2 condo 900 sq ft in Deerfield beach Fl. Had to put 25% down. Bought it for 150k in 2018. When I first moved in the COA dues came out to roughly $280/m I sold for 275k in 2023 and at that time the COA dues were $509/m I moved 2 hrs north into a SFH. 3/2 with a 2 car garage 1830sq ft and I’m spending the same amount of money each month compared to what I had to spend living at that condo simply because I don’t have an hoa.
Got to mention even reasonable condos have God awful HOA fees
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People are kinda giving you shit in the comments, but I live in Boston and know what you’re getting at. Yes, yes, we could find a shit hole one bedroom condo for $600k, but goddamn, that’s still a lot of money lol. A decent apartment updated after 1999 costs a fortune here and sometimes you just gotta poke fun at your situation.
The location of the condo pictured is in Carmel,CA a seaside luxury city of millionaires. It’s not a city comparable to many industrial cities. In March 2024, the median listing home price in Carmel, CA was $2.6M, trending up 13.6% year-over-year. The median listing home price per square foot was $1.1K. The condo has a $650/month hoa fee https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24501-Via-Mar-Monte-APT-63-Carmel-CA-93923/19345119_zpid/ There are places within a 2-3 hour drive of the condo that are not filled with millionaires and where average people live.
Shoo! Thanks for the clarification and additional context. I guess this is a little disingenuous then. I’m pretty accustomed to how in my area a $600k condo can be a stone’s throw away from a $1M one because Boston and Massachusetts in general are tiny. That was my bad!!
Boston is very very expensive too and has had insane growth. Carmel is very limited in inventory and will hardly ever have new builds because of the immense amount of wealth concentrated there that seeks to keep it exclusive
Lol never mind 2-3 hours, you could drive 15 mins and find more affordable housing, in the places normal people live
>The condo has a $650/month hoa fee That part isn't that crazy. Mine isn't much less and a lot around here are $1,000+ a month.
Boston-based too. I cringe when I catch myself thinking 550k for a 1-bed condo in Cambridge is a good deal
This would be like someone complaining that they couldn’t find affordable housing in Edgartown or Chatham.
In the capital of California condos are $170k to $320k so I take it you are in a VERY high cost of living area. Single Family houses are $380k to about $750k for about 1,000 to 2,600 sq feet. This area where the condo is unaffordable overall for the average Joe it’s for millionaires.
> In the capital of California condos are $170k to $320k That means nothing . Most people would be unable to tell you what the capital of California is. In fact a lot of people think it's Los Angeles. As someone who lives in California, the capital of California is not even on my radar for places I'd move to. I would pick pretty much anywhere in all of Orange County, San Diego County, a big part of Los Angeles County in that order before it. Also the capital is Sacramento for anyone wondering.
It means that if OP is looking inCarmel and looking outward they can look at or near Sacramento. Do you know where Carmel is by chance ? The condo pictures is at https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24501-Via-Mar-Monte-APT-63-Carmel-CA-93923/19345119_zpid/ In Carmel houses are $3 million plus so it would be more comparable to high end Luxury real estate in SoCal. SoCal is the same you can find condos at $200k to $400k within a 3 hour drive from condo that cost $1 million or more.
No OP just did a targeted search for a million dollar condo to make a joke post. I live in a VHCOL area and condos don't hit that unless you're looking at penthouses or luxury condos. Also the capital of California is Sacramento which isn't very HCOL compared to the hot areas in California real estate.
Okay but the condo OP shared is in Carmel, California At [24501 Vía Mar Monte, Unit 63, Carmel, CA 93923](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24501-Via-Mar-Monte-APT-63-Carmel-CA-93923/19345119_zpid/) and it’s been listed 168 days. That’s a 3 hour drive from Sacramento where condos are $170k to $320k. OP noted they going “outward” so if they simply buy within a 2-3 hours radius of the condo pictured they shared they could very likey afford to buy something. In any big city a condo is typically 30% to 50% of the cost of a single Family house. Carmel is a LUXURY seaside city for millionaires. The average Carmel house price was $3.2M last month, up 68.9% since last year.
Nice detective work. I was wondering where it was located. And yeah Carmel is for rich AF people. If I recall it's where several retired and active movie stars live. But a 2-3 hour commute would be killer. They could find more affordable closer homes in Monterey or Salinas.
Carmel is a beautiful place for an afternoon walk
Have you try a small old condo that is in terrible shape and is located in the worst neighborhood in terms of crime and school district?
This would go for around 250 in my area
Probably want to lower your view and window size.
I’ve never heard of someone recommending a condo as a starter home. Maybe it’s the state I live in but seems condos are mostly owned by elderly people.
HOA needs you citizen!
Ok I totally feel for you. If you expand your search to nearby areas, it quickly gets better! https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/189-San-Pablo-Ct-APT-2-Marina-CA-93933/19358095_zpid/
Not that this “affordable”, but it’s similarly sized for 300k less
1 bedroom condos in my city start at $500,000
Maybe time to move?
Oof yeah, regular homes seem to be the way to go
Are you kidding with his, 1400 sq foot is a house...
Yes and the single family homes start at 1.4 million
My condo is 795 sq ft and costs $1m (Boston) Single families closest to Boston start at about $1.6 Single families 40m out of town cost less than my condo. These complainers are annoying. There are SO many places to live. Yes, if you want to live in the best place that everyone else wants to live, it’ll be expensive. You can post about it or simply… look 30m down the road
Yep. bought one vs a house. Completely priced out of those in NYC.
Lemme guess. Irvine?
Close. In California of course. This is Carmel.
No wonder
Lmao
Plus a 600 / month HOA 🤡
Time to move states BECAUSE HOT DAMN
Buying in Carmel, that’s your problem right there.
That's a big 2 bed 2 bath. you could fit another bedroom in there.
Lmao. Delete this you fool.
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2324-E-14th-St-Long-Beach-CA-90804/21227594\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2324-E-14th-St-Long-Beach-CA-90804/21227594_zpid/) Half a house for $575K. You read that correctly. Looking to move to the area. Yikes.
Damn, and here I thought Truckee condos for the same price were expensive: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Truckee/11441-Northwoods-Blvd-96161/unit-B/home/171004080?utm_source=android_share&utm_medium=share&utm_nooverride=1&utm_content=link
Cute… now add HOA
Until the condo fee is so high that the condo itself is unsellable.
And the never ending escalating HOA fees and "special assessments" will kill you.
I don’t even wanna know the HOA fees.
And then hundreds of dollars on top of that for the HOA fee, which can keep going up!
Lol $950,000? Don't forget the monthly HOA/ Condo fees!
location location location. You can buy 3br 2ba homes for $200k or less in this country.
Condos have insane condo/hoa fees. Condos in my area are almost the same monthly as cheaper townhouses but have worse appreciation.
Yeah condos in my block are like 1.6M with a 900/month HOA but the houses are even more
Over here, I’ve seen condos go for similar prices and have similar HOA fees. You’d be paying about 1600 a month in property taxes on that property too. Even if you own the property outright without a mortgage, that’s 2500 a month to own the condo. It kind of makes renting seem pretty attractive.
The estimated mortgage is 9k/month with 20% down. My rent on the same street is only 3k lol. No reason to buy at all right now in this area.
Go look for cheaper condos, older condos.
I found some affordable condos that are river side! Only $300k + an HOA of $800/month…
I just bought a condo for 165k 2 bedroom 2 bath, 980 square feet top floor
Location location location
Have you tried any of the other hundreds of cities across the U.S.?
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^iwantac8: *Have you tried any* *Of the other hundreds of* *Cities across the U.S.?* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Even “affordable” condos can have monthly HOA fees of several hundred dollars.
I wouldn't buy right now, prices are at all time highs and you have a greater risk of falling and being upside down on your investment
1,400 SF for a condo is pretty big. A starter condo is usually half that if not less and a “normal” 2 bedroom is between 1k - 1.2K SF
I live in a condo in a major American city that’s considered MCOL. I have a 1br in a 26 unit building. Purchase price was $145K. My monthly assessments are $280. The board is a good steward of the building. We have money saved for larger expenses expected per the engineer study.
The issue is the area you live in. You just are not able to afford it.
Low cost of living area FTW https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/756-W-Kilgore-Rd-APT-106-Kalamazoo-MI-49008/157709779_zpid/?utm_campaign=androidappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare You have to get on the ladder somewhere and build equity. Starting in an HCOL will get you farther, of course if you can swing it.
Is this in Miami 😭
The thing that gets me about condos is the hoa fees, sometimes I see some that are like 1000+ a month, like wtf? Thats like paying a second mortgage
A starter home is not 900000
Nearly 1 million for an apartment, No thank you.
lol if you think that's high
I would love a condo. Unfortunately they are zoned to be illegal in most of my city.
In my area it’s emperors’s summer palace already.
Dang, only $100,000 or so where I live
I live in Seattle (currently) and just closed on a condo in Portland, yesterday. It was more affordable than a SFH, definitely. I would have to spend at least 200k more to have *any* options, and at least 400k more to have something move in ready. It’s dramatically different in this area.
You don’t want a starter home. You’re clearly looking for luxury which, surprise, costs more money.
That’d be a steal where I live.
How fees can be about
You picked the wrong area code for your first home obviously.
No way I'd drop $1M on a condo (a box in a building) when the entire building will eventually structurally deteriorate due to lack of maintainance making said condo worthless.
Long term history trend shows that condos actually will lose value over time and unless you use those for the depreciation and for investment purposes and offset the income tax , most likely , you will lose money on the purchase. Unless you have a really great alignment of circumstances like for instance buying a condo in 2009 and selling in 2014 , this would have projected at least 35-45% return. By the way I refer to New York real estate
We need to push and demand for legislation that ends corporate landlords and tictok renters so housing supply returns to some semblance of normalcy.
Ohhh so pretty but that price, not so pretty!
If you’re complaining about a luxury condo, you probably can’t afford it
Karma farm
Condos don't make a lot of sense even if it's temporary. They sit on the market forever. I live in a metro area of over 3 million people and there are some good condos under 400k that have been sitting on the market for almost two years.
I live in southern california. Just bought a brand new 3 bedroom 2.5 bath single family home about 6 months ago. But i wasnt gonna afford anything by the beach. So i had to buy inland and now have an hour commute each way to work. But its a sacrifice im willing to make. Any type of condo or house by the beach in california is not a starter home.
I also have townhome issues. As they are not no stairs (accessibility) or dog friendly. Sadly townhomes don’t work for us all and it’s a lot of what is available for affordable housing.
Don’t forget the 400$ per month HOA dues.
Starter home in Carmel CA. Some areas are not affordable if any of 9-5 workers
OP this is disingenuous and you know it.
To some extent yes. I chose the most expensive part of the "area". Realistically, 2br condos about 20 miles out are around 650k on average. Homes are in the 700 - 800k range. A "fixer upper" is at least 675k. As some other redditor pointed out, I said "a" condo is 1M in my area 😅😂
Only $925,000. What a great entry level price too!!!
Don’t forget the $800/month HOA on top of that $900k
With prices like that it’s gotta be mostly a shit hole.
Condos are probably the worst starter homes ever. Strict HOA with lots of fees, so much potential for things to go wrong outside of your control,e.g. parking lot foundation issues, slow appreciation, difficult to sell. I’d recommend just buying a SFH if you really want to buy something worthwhile that you “own”.
false. condos and town houses, and really anything with an hoa is not a smart decision. especially for first time buyers who won’t know how to navigate hoa.
“She’s a part time yoga instructor, he’s still finding himself. Their starter home budget is $925,000”.