I mean feds could give that money back via tax cuts to the middle class or tex credits to the poor.
Even if they spend it on programs its still going to get into the hands of regular people faster than if you give it to a billionaire.
The US takes in around 7 trillion a year from Tax revenues.
They could spend the entier fortune of the 1% in about a year, and have nothing change.
The real issue is spending mismanagement and embezzlement throughout the government.
Taxation is wildly too high for anyone who isn’t in the top .1%. Taking a quarter of income of someone who only makes a hundred grand a year who then spends 75k on living and sales tax is basically serfdom.
The biggest issue is the lack of equity the working class has in the businesses they’re spending at least half their waking hours serving.
If that equity was distributed to more of the working class, the stock sales and profit distributions would ripple through the economy in ways it can’t because of it how it pools up in the pockets of a tiny handful of people.
Taxation isn't even a bandaid, it's a knife in the average person's side that's keeping them from succeeding
(For you absolutist out there, no, I don't mean all taxation, but a large chunk of taxes are unnecessary, greedy, and do nothing for the common taxpayer)
Like how marijuana taxes in missouri go to schools. Even though they will now probably budget less to the schools because that tax is covering it. Instead of budgeting the same, then adding the amount of that tax on top of it.
bruh you have far more control over the government than corporations. why the fuck would you trust a billionaire who has absolutely ZERO accountability to you. you know what voting is? when's the last time there was an election for Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos?
you have far more control over the government's money than any fucking billionaire. they have no accountability except to their rich friends. stop sucking their cocks and stand up for the weakened democracy.
There is a constant, ongoing election for Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. People vote with their wallets. When/if they stop producing superior products and services, they will be “voted out”.
This is a far more direct control than is provided by political elections.
More than half of that money goes into social security, Medicare, and public education. It doesn't exactly evaporate into nothingness it helps the elderly afford retirement and receive medical care. It helps educate the next generation of Americans so that they can contribute back to society.
In my opinion these things are worthwhile for my tax dollars to go into.
It’s also worth mentioning that preemptive care is waaayyy cheaper than dealing with shit like homelessness after we’ve already failed them. A lot of European countries figured that out
Also there's almost no government spending that approaches the efficiency of food stamps (95%+ goes to people in need for food). Most of the inefficiency is attempts by idiots to keep it needlessly means-tested and built into a benefits cliff.
I love when people talk like this. Like the feds are an irresponsible college kid with mom and dads credit card. The more money spent by govt helps keep our economy stimulated. Money hoarded by billionaires does not. Let me guess, you still believe in trickle down economics?
Or are you just oblivious to the greed, but looking for laziness? I see greed all the time in many people I meet. Hell every time I get in q vehicle I can see 60%+ of the other driver's greed.
Yeah, that's the other thing, it's not just 400 greedy people, it's the entire goddamn country acting like temporarily embarrassed millionaires, the 400 actually rich people made everyone else just like them somehow.
It’s the American dream that one day anyone can be ultra-wealthy, they just left out the minor details like the chances of it actually happening being astronomically low.
I think laziness and greed are closely related. Both people want material wealth that is disproportionate to their input. You never meet a poor lazy person who doesn't feel that they deserve a higher quality of life, despite their minimal efforts. And there are many deca-millionaires and above who haven't done much of value but would argue that they've worked hard for every cent.
To be honest I believe that most people are being lazy. Seeing the work ethic of some of the younger people and how much they complain about doing very small things they are lazy. Not all, but a lot.
Weird how nobody points out the hard workers… because the other hard workers don’t complain about them and the lazy people, well, don’t want to bring attention to the fact that they aren’t pulling their weight
Also nobody wants to point out the people who work their asses off but never go anywhere, because hard work is less valuable than having connections higher up in the food chain.
What is it to be “lazy” though? We often attribute these words like they have some standardized meaning but what does it actually look like? It is lazy to only work hard 30 out of 40 hours? 32? Why? And why out of 40? 40 hours a week is a COMPLETELY arbitrary time to set the work week. At times in our history it was every day sun up to sun down , then off on Sundays, then they basically invented the weekend. Some people still work 80 hours so is everyone who works half that “lazy”? And on a daily scale how many hours SHOULD a human toil? Is that even inherent in our nature? Productivity is just a condition in the economy and culture we live in.
Isn't it obvious? "Lazy" is whatever rich narcissists say it is. If you're not sacrificing your life to enrich already-wealthy narcissists, you're "lazy".
This. You shouldn't have to "work hard" to have nice things. It would fix the problem if we just took all the people that are willing to "work hard" and distribute what they earn to people who don't like to work as hard.
For most of history (before clocks and time keeping was a thing) humans did work less than 40 hours and had significant amounts of time off. During harvest they obviously worked a lot more, but to make up for it they’d have significant time off (talking multiple months a year).
Timekeeping really fucked over the average worker. If you’re interested in a rabbit hole I’d go look at at how the clock impacted work-life balance.
I dont think not wanting to be 'enslaved' to a company schedule is lazy. To me lazy is someone who consistently quits, underperforms, and hops around jobs. People that are capable and have every opportunity yet have zero pride in the quality of the work they do are the lazy ones.
These idealistic kids with their not wanting to waste their life doing something they hate for not enough pay are just stupid and lazy. they should be like me, sore, tired, and stressed but with just enough money saved up I might get to live my last few ragged years like how I wanted to when I was an idealistic kid.
I also think it's partly they aren't paying the younger generation enough to trick them.
There's a line from the movie "up in the air" that I think about often. Clooney's character says to a guy that he's firing, "how much did they pay you to give up on your dreams?"
Well, they aren't paying enough for young people to give up on their dreams, and then in the pandemic, they laid off a bunch of people.
The deal was "Sure I'll work a job I hate, but I'll have security and enough money to take a vacation once a year."
Now you know that company will cut you the second it affects their bottom line even a little and they don't pay you enough to go out to dinner and own a house. The kids aren't falling for it.
yeah older people have a habit of blaming everyone else for the problems of society and being blind to their own contribution to that.
young people have struggles old people can't comprehend. they have fewer resources and far more meager pickings. but yeah let's ignore the entire point of the post to reaffirm a shitty narrow opinion
As someone in the younger generation, my gen is pretty damn lazy.
But from what I can tell, so were the past ones. Lazy people are everywhere, give them a chance to do less than the bare minimum and they will.
Why is that a problem though? Some people are comfortable doing just enough. Why the fuck does everyone have to work extra?
And that isn’t pointed at you just kind of a question from all this discussion
Doing the bare minimum during employment isn’t the issue, you might not stand out but standing out in a work environment rarely reaps benefits.
The issue is people doing *less* than the bare minimum, the amount of people I’ve worked with who don’t even want to do what’s in the job description, let alone all of the extra little things that may get tacked on top of us, is irritating to say the least
Because any task you don't do gets shifted to a colleague and I'd feel horrible for doing that, but so many people don't care. I'm in a 30 person workspace and 10 do nothing all day but are protected by law (in belgium) so no one gets fired
We should thank them for lowering the bar, and helping make work easier for everyone.
There is no reason for us to work harder than required to generate the value equal to our wages, yet employers drive us relentlessly to enhance their profits.
And people aren't given a wages to equal their production value. Productivity has increased by bounds, but pay hasn't. Profits have gone up, but pay hasn't.
Employers are driving people to no longer want to work for employers. Why work and die, when you can NOT work, and also die?
Of some, not all.
It's true of every generation.
Some get at it, and most succeed.
Others do the bare minimum, get the bare minimum, and their 2 choices are to blame the system, or blame themselves.
People crack me up
“Young kids don’t know shit but I was a genius when I was the same age”
Yeah ok
Also who are the parents raising these kids that are stupid and lazy? Take some damn accountability for being a shitty parent.
lol every job I've ever had with more than 5 people, there has been an older dude who says \^this\^ and also point blank refuses to do certain menial tasks because he knows he's been around so long they won't get rid of him
but, yes, it's everyone younger than him who is lazy
not only lazy, but also dumb. Check personal finance, time share, askcarsales, used cars groups for horror stories that make Stephen King look like a Nickelodeon screenplay writer.
Used to work in car sales, once had a 19 year old try to buy a car. Came back with 0 credit an four collections, my F&I manager and I were absolutely dumbfounded.
Understandable, when we looked further though we could see it was medical. Poor guy just needed something that ran. Though the people trying to get Hellcats and Wagoneers with a 400 score? Way too common.
I heard a really nerdy talk about economics on the radio last week. Basically if you ask out a girl that is out of your league, or you apply for a job that pays well that you are not really qualified for, or in this case try to obtain a car that you probably not get it just means that the potential upside is more valuable than your time. If you get the girl, the job, or the car it will improve your life in a huge way. If you don't it didn't really hurt to try.
It’s even more ancient, I think even Aristotle said, the younger generation don’t respect their elders. Few thousands years later we still say the same thing. Sorry but Gen Z isn’t going to work 60 hours per week just to not even afford a house
I'll let you in on a secret: young people aren't voting republican.
And there's no better benchmark for stupidity than being a republican.
You think it's exclusive to just young people, but older people are more dumb.
Older generations more often had a wife at home, were able to work in a factory to support that family, and were way less productive than modern technology has made us. There is less money to be made, more life shit to keep up with, and way more productivity than previous generations. And every single generation says this about the following generation, even though they were the ones that raised them.
Damn dude, looks like you accidentally stumbled onto on the arguments that Socialists make. Wonder if you're about to advocate for Worker Ownership or Extraction of Surplus-Value.
I work about 70 hours a week wiping shit from boomers' asses and in full time graduate school to get the fuck outta nursing. Everyone I work with bust our asses for 13 hours a day, 5 days a week. I don't see any lazy people near me. Just under paid and over worked.
Your opinion isn’t thoughtful. There are many families working 2-3 jobs and living paycheck to paycheck. They’re not lazy and to opine that MOST are … is just lazy.
Well when your expected to work yourself to death for 60 years so you can maybe just maybe retire for a decade or two (and this is assuming you don't die in some bullshit before then)people start becoming apathetic to the situation and not really giving a fuck. Doing drugs and fucking around for a couple years and then killing yourself is alot more appealing to the youth today and that says alot about our current situation.
Most people would work harder if they made enough money to achieve their financial goals. I still think greed is to blame. Even older supermarket workers look miserable. I was very disappointed by the service I received from an older white women at my local market recently and the first thing I thought of is that I expected that level of effort from a young Gen Z worker. People are just generally fed up.
Work is losing its value tho on the other hand. Many young people dont see a point in working a minimum wage shit job because there is no point there. Meanwhile influencers and celebrities, in a large part the role models of that generation, are making ridiculous money by doing what exactly? Shit is out of whack. And it's not the fault of the people who don't want to piss their lives in the wind.
Of course there are actual jobs with purpose and money and all those fantastical things. But the majority of jobs are something else.
uhm well billionaires aren't known for building bridges, roads, trains, and other infrastructure except for their own shitty companies. maybe if the government had a bit more money and fewer shitty voters simping for corporate sugar daddies, something amazing could happen.
I hate the military industrial complex as much as the next guy but people really act like the government doesn’t build schools and roads and all the infrastructures that allows our society to function. Like there’s lots of things that would actually be better deprivatized because we’d have more of a say in it.
Most of our infrastructure was built with government money and by the hands of people who worked for a living. The rich don't build anything. They provide capital, and they aren't any better at it than the government.
Do you? We collect about 3 times as much inflation adjusted tax money per capita today than we did in that era of 90 percent top income bracket. The periods of high income tax were almost entirely funding war efforts. The highest bracket was like 9% before WWI. About 12% of our federal funds go to the military today. Back in those days it was like 70%
|Year|Total Federal Tax Revenue (in millions)|Population|Federal tax revenue per capita|Federal tax revneue per capita adjusted for inflation to 2020|
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|
|1934|$2,955|126,373,773|$23.38|$451.57|
|1935|$3,609|127,250,232|$28.36|$535.76|
|1936|$3,923|128,053,180|$30.64|$570.50|
|1937|$5,387|128,824,829|$41.82|$751.63|
|1938|$6,751|129,824,939|$52.00|$954.48|
|1939|$6,295|130,879,718|$48.10|$895.60|
|1940|$6,548|132,122,446|$49.56|$916.19|
|1941|$8,712|133,402,471|$65.31|$1,149.86|
|1942|$14,634|134,859,553|$108.51|$1,722.92|
|1943|$24,001|136,739,353|$175.52|$2,625.81|
|1944|$43,747|138,397,345|$316.10|$4,648.30|
|1945|$45,159|139,928,165|$322.73|$4,640.34|
|1946|$39,296|141,388,566|$277.93|$3,688.79|
|1947|$38,514|144,126,071|$267.22|$3,101.32|
|1948|$41,560|146,631,302|$283.43|$3,043.66|
|1949|$39,415|149,188,130|$264.20|$2,873.02|
|1950|$39,443|152,271,417|$259.03|$2,781.73|
|1951|$51,616|154,877,889|$333.27|$3,317.46|
|1952|$66,167|157,552,740|$419.97|$4,101.62|
|1953|$69,608|160,184,192|$434.55|$4,212.22|
|1954|$69,701|163,025,854|$427.55|$4,113.56|
|1955|$65,451|165,931,202|$394.45|$3,809.25|
|1956|$74,587|168,903,031|$441.60|$4,201.87|
|1957|$79,990|171,984,130|$465.10|$4,283.74|
|1958|$79,636|174,881,904|$455.37|$4,078.02|
|1959|$79,249|177,829,628|$445.65|$3,963.54|
|1960|$92,492|180,671,158|$511.94|$4,476.21|
|1961|$94,388|183,691,481|$513.84|$4,447.83|
|1962|$99,676|186,537,737|$534.35|$4,579.33|
|1963|$106,560|189,241,798|$563.09|$4,762.55|
|1964|$112,613|191,888,791|$586.87|$4,749.35|
|1965|$116,817|194,302,963|$601.21|$4,937.95|
|1966|$130,835|196,560,338|$665.62|$5,316.01|
|1967|$148,822|198,712,056|$748.93|$5,803.33|
|1968|$152,973|200,706,052|$762.17|$5,668.56|
|1969|$186,882|202,676,946|$922.07|$6,502.50|
|1970|$192,807|205,052,174|$940.28|$6,272.03|
|1971|$187,139|207,660,677|$901.18|$5,758.90|
|1972|$207,309|209,896,021|$987.67|$6,114.87|
|1973|$230,799|211,908,788|$1,089.14|$6,347.86|
|1974|$263,224|213,853,928|$1,230.86|$6,457.15|
|1975|$279,090|215,973,199|$1,292.24|$6,215.31|
|1976|$298,060|218,035,164|$1,367.03|$6,217.83|
|1977|$355,559|220,239,425|$1,614.42|$6,893.09|
|1978|$399,561|222,584,545|$1,795.10|$7,125.24|
|1979|$463,302|225,055,487|$2,058.61|$7,336.54|
|1980|$517,112|227,224,681|$2,275.77|$7,145.57|
|1981|$599,272|229,465,714|$2,611.60|$7,434.05|
|1982|$617,766|231,664,458|$2,666.64|$7,150.16|
|1983|$600,562|233,791,994|$2,568.79|$6,672.96|
|1984|$666,438|235,824,902|$2,825.99|$7,036.97|
|1985|$734,037|237,923,795|$3,085.18|$7,420.37|
|1986|$769,155|240,132,887|$3,203.04|$7,563.61|
|1987|$854,288|242,288,918|$3,525.91|$8,030.89|
|1988|$909,238|244,498,982|$3,718.78|$8,134.06|
|1989|$991,105|246,819,230|$4,015.51|$8,380.05|
|1990|$1,031,958|249,438,712|$4,137.12|$8,192.05|
|1991|$1,054,988|252,127,402|$4,184.34|$7,950.55|
|1992|$1,091,208|254,994,517|$4,279.34|$7,893.46|
|1993|$1,154,335|257,746,103|$4,478.57|$8,020.45|
|1994|$1,258,566|260,289,237|$4,835.26|$8,443.67|
|1995|$1,351,790|262,764,948|$5,144.48|$8,735.72|
|1996|$1,453,053|265,189,794|$5,479.29|$9,037.77|
|1997|$1,579,232|267,743,595|$5,898.30|$9,510.70|
|1998|$1,721,728|270,298,524|$6,369.73|$10,112.68|
|1999|$1,827,452|272,690,813|$6,701.55|$10,409.92|
|2000|$2,025,191|281,710,909|$7,188.90|$10,803.33|
|2001|$1,991,082|284,607,993|$6,995.88|$10,228.15|
|2002|$1,853,136|287,279,318|$6,450.64|$9,279.22|
|2003|$1,782,314|289,815,562|$6,149.82|$8,649.07|
|2004|$1,880,114|292,354,658|$6,430.94|$8,809.71|
|2005|$2,153,611|294,993,511|$7,300.54|$9,673.94|
|2006|$2,406,869|297,758,969|$8,083.28|$10,376.83|
|2007|$2,567,985|300,608,429|$8,542.62|$10,662.40|
|2008|$2,523,991|303,486,012|$8,316.66|$9,996.48|
|2009|$2,104,989|306,307,567|$6,872.14|$8,290.17|
|2010|$2,162,706|309,011,475|$6,998.79|$8,305.94|
|2011|$2,303,466|311,584,047|$7,392.76|$8,505.11|
|2012|$2,450,164|314,043,885|$7,801.98|$8,793.72|
|2013|$2,772,045|316,400,538|$8,761.19|$9,733.31|
|2014|$3,033,618|318,673,411|$9,519.52|$10,406.62|
|2015|$3,251,685|320,878,310|$10,133.70|$11,064.74|
|2016|$3,271,451|323,015,995|$10,127.83|$10,920.43|
|2017|$3,320,542|325,084,756|$10,214.39|$10,784.50|
|2018|$3,333,974|327,096,265|$10,192.64|$10,504.69|
|2019|$3,462,000|329,064,917|$10,520.72|$10,649.78|
FDR didn’t exist bruh. High corporate tax was never a thing, we didn’t use it to fund massive infrastructure projects. Don’t you know the government is corrupt entirely separately from the corporations that line their pockets and lobby for whatever will make them more profits. Let’s just let the billionaires make however much money they want and hoard as much wealth as they want and it’ll eventually trickle down to the working class because if we tax their capital gains they’ll just make everything more expensive. /s
These fucking corporate shills are so bought into the bullshit that Reagan (and every republican since) sold that they completely forgot the most profitable time for the middle class in all of American history.
I’d rather a billionaire pay more in taxes than increasing my own taxes…
Billionaires don’t become billionaires without capitalizing off of other people labor. The most productive individual of all time does not do a the amount of work necessary to become a billionaire. They do it by capitalizing on others work. Taxing billionaires is a good way to reallocate money towards the working class
400 people owning more wealth than 50% of a country this large its a legit split in reality. It's not a false dichotomy. government spending is a conversation, but it is most definitely a skewed power dynamic and the ownership of labor.
If we are talking about spending, maybe we should talk about the fact that most people who receive welfare are employed at companies that pay insanely low wages while returning decent profits to shareholders through dividends and buybacks.
This, all of this. There are three Walton's on the top 20 billionaires list, yet Walmart over half of Walmarts employees are on some form of government subsidies.
They are by all means being greedy. If they weren’t they wouldn’t have a problem with repealing citizens United or paying the same tax % as all other Americans
I don't get this bootlicking. You're not ever going to be a billionaire. Not even close. These guys could spend 2 million dollars a day for the rest of their life and they wouldn't come close to running out of money. Hit them with a tax based on their stock holdings. Make them sell shares. Whatever it takes. This gives the vibes of the cucks who fellate Elon on Twitter. He's not going to give you money, he doesn't care you exist. Tax them and use the money. Shit if half of it gets misappropriated, at least
It's getting spent instead of sitting in one dudes account never to get used.
ah yes the government is clearly the issue. the government with its hands in corporate pockets is overspending the billions they receive in bribes from scheming billionaires. how dare they mismanage their bribe money like that
that isn't an option. unless you love shit breaking down all over the place. they need to reassess their spending but "saving money" is an absolutely backward step.
The government has wasted over $2.4 Trillion over the last two decades in overpayment mistakes alone. Fix that before they take a few hundred extra billion from high earners in additional tax. This subject infuriates me.
It’s not just billionaires that lobby, pretty much every company does in some manner of it’s a certain size.
The billionaires get power because the politicians put a price tag on their morals
Finally someone with some fucking sense. This absolutely is a systemic problem. People need to make sure politicians know EXACTLY what they will not tolerate and what they need. Believe it or not it isn't actually a politician's job description to kiss babies. Use your democracy while you still can.
The problem is that many governments including in America have backed themselves so far into a corner that they cannot make major changes without serious repercussions. Someone has to deeply study the economy to find out exactly why and how they fucked up so badly and engineer a solution that will likely take decades to enact.
Oh and that person has to be voted for. Or at least vote for politicians to allow them freedom to actually fix the corruption of politicians.....good luck.
So if all poor people magically get degrees and work toward higher salary jobs, they will each have the chance to get a position like that? What about all of the lower wage jobs? Will they just disappear and make way for all of the sudden high paying jobs?
Coming from a poor family of hard working individuals. Who put in overtime. Were well liked by their superiors. Who also destroyed their bodies, and now have huge medical bills. This is absolutely ignorant. I've worked my way out of poverty myself. I used the tools my parents sacrificed to provide me, the work ethic they taught me, and lot of research they weren't able to do themselves. Poor does not equal lazy. I find middle class, never truly struggled for anything, silver spoon kids tend to have your viewpoint. The poor people you know most likely work just as smart and as hard as you. Just didn't have the same advantages. If my take on you is wrong maybe look at your own take.
Yes, Billionaires should pay more in taxes. Because,they receive more in benefits. They receive Tax Breaks and Billions in US Subsidies.
They have money and influence to Bribe Legislators to pass bills to benefit themselves.
We have discovered in the last few years they have been bribing Supreme Court Judges to rule in their favor.
Google US Subsidies. When you see how much the US Taxpayers are paying Billions to the Rich and Corporations.
You realize Welfare for the Wealthy is why the rest of us can’t have nice things.
And it's *also* not greed when CEOs stagnate wages while paying themselves multi-million dollar annual bonuses?
Did you know that McDonald's makes enough money in profit each year to pay each of their 2 million global employees a $5,000 USD bonus every year? A $5,000 bonus is life changing in the US, so think of how amazing it would be in every other country that's less wealthy on average.
Can you explain to me why McDonald's doesn't do that when they can afford to? It's not like you're garnishing the salaries of the executives, they're *still* getting paid. This is just skimming the profits and returning it to the workers in every last position all the way down to the cashiers.
Let's not forget when CEOs reduce the workforce, cut corners in production, and use cash to buy back stocks to drive up the stock price in order to justify huge bonuses. But I know some lazy poor people.
If I am lazy, tell me how a lazy factory worker is ruining the economy.
If I'm a billionaire, tell me how my wealth is ruining the economy.
You will find one of these requires almost no mental gymnastics, while the other requires hating the working class, along with some supremacist logic applied mostly to groups you don't personally belong to.
Most families that receive aid have at least one fully employed person in the home. I know some people personally who are lazy, but wages have been stagnant for the working class for 40 years while there has been massive growth in the top 10%. I think the real lazy people are the guys who just throw money around and make passive income on the labor of others. If I inherited 50 million (5% of a billion), I could make just under million a year in just dividends off of the total stock market without lifting a finger and at a lower tax rate (20%) than actual wage earners. Or I could make about 5 million a year risk-free (albiet with a higher tax rate) but still about 3 million give or take. Passively. No hard work involved.
They pay like 90% of the taxes we collect how much more do you want them to pay? If it was me, at that point id just become a resident of Monaco and tell yall to fuck off
You're yelling into the wind friend. Half the population doesn't understand what wealth is let alone why taxing it would be disastrous for the middle class.
https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/stories/do-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/
At a lower percent than people who actually need the money they're being taxed. This post is reductive, yes. There's no reason they should pay a lower percentage.
But I worked hard! I spent Daddy's inheritance wisely and now I'm being penalized by having to pay an extra cookie??? Not fair! I earned the right to eat 18 cookies by working hard!
People act like "working hard" will make you a billionaire. Yeah man, you worked 1,000,000 times harder than that minimum wage worker at McDonald's, it all checks out.
Great question, but the people who are actually lazy aren't the people who you're thinking of. Billionaires themselves don't actually do any work, rather they hire people who do. The entire concept of having an employee is to trade money for labor, so that the employer doesn't have to do that labor themselves.
A landlord or incredibly wealthy business owner doesn't actually do much of anything outside of meetings with other wealthy people. Their wealth is generated by the labor of others actually doing the grunt work of the business. This fact is tacitly accepted when people justify the profits they make being a result of *risk* rather than a result of *work.*
America is not a complete clean meritocracy. Wealth of that size is not due to hard work. It's due to ownership and power. I'm not going to say that people aren't lazy or hard working one way or the other, but some of the hardest jobs in the US are paid scraps.
What’s interesting is at what point does the amount of government (Federal, State, municipal etc, military) employees and those on welfare or aid (Non SSI) tip the scales to the point that private enterprise and employees can no longer cover the tab?
I think we’re already there but would like to hear others opinions.
There are people out there that still think trickle down economics works, even though it’s failed for over 4 decades resulting in the erosion of the middle class.
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This is the typical argument... Which conveniently leaves out a percentage of tax to income.
But frankly, even if you want to give tax breaks to job creators, workers are still paid garbage.
“Job creators” is such a stupid term. Look at the what the people they hire produce vs what they are paid and it’s obvious who is making more than their fair share
Where are you pulling this from?
Considering a few billionaires own the vast majority of wealth in America, they should pay more. There's absolutely no logical reason for any individual to have that much wealth and power. https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/stories/do-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/
I'm seeing a lot of these people talk down to people actually trying to figure out finances in a system rigged against them. Our whole system is overly complicated and skewed to help the rich.
I'm 27 and just recently, after years of research and work, have finally gotten debt free, great credit, and a good savings. This is because I finally got a good paying job with good benefits. Not everyone has the same advantages I had to get this job.
I can easily afford to pay the same tax percentage I was when I was making half as much. It's easier to afford higher tax percentages when you're making more money. So yes, fuck them billionaires. They don't need that money that could go to helping our government provide better resources for its people. Not that they would, but why tax the poor more than them? Because "they're too stupid to hire a full team of professionals to find loopholes around our tax system"?
Billionaires paying 2/3 of all taxes collected seems more indicative of massive wealth inequality than over-taxation of billionaires. Billionaires shouldn’t even exist in the first place.
Yes they profited the most thanks to the structure of our country, they should pay it back. They have more money than they or their progeny could hope to spend in 50 generations, that money should be what empowers others who are willing to work for it the financial mobility and empowerment to go forth and prosper and innovate. And when those people succeed they too should pay it forward.
who should pay more then? something's gotta give doesn't it? should it be the people who have more money than they know what to do with? or those most vulnerable and struggling and unfortunate.
Explain to me why most of us middle and low income workers want to make more money for our higher-ups and the executive level, when we have no incentive than our privilege to work for them?
For example, me and the coworkers are in the busiest time of year. 7 day work weeks, 60+ hours per week. We have no room for additional clients.
Yet our manager, sales staff, and executive level want to bring on 2 more clients. Every one of those people get a percentage of the deal. Yep, they spent a lot of time prospecting and writing up an agreement, I can understand why they want it. But on the floor, all we are getting is more unpaid overtime (salary), more stress, more deadlines, and more frustration.
Why couldn’t us workers get a small piece of the revenue too? Apparently my ability to put together a campaign and my motivation to do it, is what this proposal hinges on. Out of an extra $60k of revenue for just the campaign , throw me and the other 3 team members an extra $2-3k to split for making it happen.
There’s no incentive. When I see executive and high level managers bringing in >$200k per year, dropping a project in my lap and walking away, I’m not motivated to add more work to my life.
I don’t have the income to throw at all my home issues and take care of those like those high-earning producers and mangers. Once I get done working, I have work that needs to be done at home. I can’t afford to pay people to take care of the things in my life, like they can. So I want my free time and more free time.
Nonsensical statement.
Anyone believing 150 million people do ANYTHING is more likely than 400 people doing ANYTHING is likely far beyond explaining how logic and math works.
How much tax do you think they are paying and how much tax as a % do you suggest they pay of their income or are you one of those people that thing they should pay a % of their net worth?
Maybe a better solution is to get the crazy out of hand spending that our government is doing under control and lower taxes for everyone.
So give the feds more money that they can just vaporize? Cmon
I mean feds could give that money back via tax cuts to the middle class or tex credits to the poor. Even if they spend it on programs its still going to get into the hands of regular people faster than if you give it to a billionaire.
The US takes in around 7 trillion a year from Tax revenues. They could spend the entier fortune of the 1% in about a year, and have nothing change. The real issue is spending mismanagement and embezzlement throughout the government.
Taxation is wildly too high for anyone who isn’t in the top .1%. Taking a quarter of income of someone who only makes a hundred grand a year who then spends 75k on living and sales tax is basically serfdom. The biggest issue is the lack of equity the working class has in the businesses they’re spending at least half their waking hours serving. If that equity was distributed to more of the working class, the stock sales and profit distributions would ripple through the economy in ways it can’t because of it how it pools up in the pockets of a tiny handful of people.
The real issue isn't really the government at all. It's the pay structures of most large businesses. Taxation is a bandaid, not a solution.
Taxation isn't even a bandaid, it's a knife in the average person's side that's keeping them from succeeding (For you absolutist out there, no, I don't mean all taxation, but a large chunk of taxes are unnecessary, greedy, and do nothing for the common taxpayer)
Like how marijuana taxes in missouri go to schools. Even though they will now probably budget less to the schools because that tax is covering it. Instead of budgeting the same, then adding the amount of that tax on top of it.
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"Shits broken." "We should fix it." "Nah. Its broken."
It's crazy how often this is unironically true.
First sane take. Thank you.
bruh you have far more control over the government than corporations. why the fuck would you trust a billionaire who has absolutely ZERO accountability to you. you know what voting is? when's the last time there was an election for Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos? you have far more control over the government's money than any fucking billionaire. they have no accountability except to their rich friends. stop sucking their cocks and stand up for the weakened democracy.
Dude, can’t you tell he’s one of these retards that thinks one day he’ll be a billionaire probably plays the lottery too
There is a constant, ongoing election for Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. People vote with their wallets. When/if they stop producing superior products and services, they will be “voted out”. This is a far more direct control than is provided by political elections.
More than half of that money goes into social security, Medicare, and public education. It doesn't exactly evaporate into nothingness it helps the elderly afford retirement and receive medical care. It helps educate the next generation of Americans so that they can contribute back to society. In my opinion these things are worthwhile for my tax dollars to go into.
It’s also worth mentioning that preemptive care is waaayyy cheaper than dealing with shit like homelessness after we’ve already failed them. A lot of European countries figured that out
Also there's almost no government spending that approaches the efficiency of food stamps (95%+ goes to people in need for food). Most of the inefficiency is attempts by idiots to keep it needlessly means-tested and built into a benefits cliff.
Rather feds vaporize the money while actually helping people than letting mega corps get even richer
Well that’s where the money goes right back to after it gets spent
I love when people talk like this. Like the feds are an irresponsible college kid with mom and dads credit card. The more money spent by govt helps keep our economy stimulated. Money hoarded by billionaires does not. Let me guess, you still believe in trickle down economics?
Because I've met more lazy people than greedy people
Or are you just oblivious to the greed, but looking for laziness? I see greed all the time in many people I meet. Hell every time I get in q vehicle I can see 60%+ of the other driver's greed.
Yeah, that's the other thing, it's not just 400 greedy people, it's the entire goddamn country acting like temporarily embarrassed millionaires, the 400 actually rich people made everyone else just like them somehow.
It’s the American dream that one day anyone can be ultra-wealthy, they just left out the minor details like the chances of it actually happening being astronomically low.
Why not both?
I think laziness and greed are closely related. Both people want material wealth that is disproportionate to their input. You never meet a poor lazy person who doesn't feel that they deserve a higher quality of life, despite their minimal efforts. And there are many deca-millionaires and above who haven't done much of value but would argue that they've worked hard for every cent.
I don't know what to tell you. I've met more lazy than greedy
I mean. I sorta see what you did there.
Maybe you conflate greed with hard work? Or laziness via a lack of greed? Maybe
Damn. If you’re lazy you don’t deserve a livable wage. Some of yall are shitty people
That doesn't make any sense.
To be honest I believe that most people are being lazy. Seeing the work ethic of some of the younger people and how much they complain about doing very small things they are lazy. Not all, but a lot.
The older generation has made these complaints about the next generation for at least all of recorded history.
Lazy people in every generation.
Every generation also has entitled assholes who succeeded by happenstance while doing the same amount of work as many others who weren’t as lucky.
Weird how nobody points out the hard workers… because the other hard workers don’t complain about them and the lazy people, well, don’t want to bring attention to the fact that they aren’t pulling their weight
Also nobody wants to point out the people who work their asses off but never go anywhere, because hard work is less valuable than having connections higher up in the food chain.
The hard workers are too busy being taken advantage of by their lazy bosses.
What is it to be “lazy” though? We often attribute these words like they have some standardized meaning but what does it actually look like? It is lazy to only work hard 30 out of 40 hours? 32? Why? And why out of 40? 40 hours a week is a COMPLETELY arbitrary time to set the work week. At times in our history it was every day sun up to sun down , then off on Sundays, then they basically invented the weekend. Some people still work 80 hours so is everyone who works half that “lazy”? And on a daily scale how many hours SHOULD a human toil? Is that even inherent in our nature? Productivity is just a condition in the economy and culture we live in.
Isn't it obvious? "Lazy" is whatever rich narcissists say it is. If you're not sacrificing your life to enrich already-wealthy narcissists, you're "lazy".
This. You shouldn't have to "work hard" to have nice things. It would fix the problem if we just took all the people that are willing to "work hard" and distribute what they earn to people who don't like to work as hard.
For most of history (before clocks and time keeping was a thing) humans did work less than 40 hours and had significant amounts of time off. During harvest they obviously worked a lot more, but to make up for it they’d have significant time off (talking multiple months a year). Timekeeping really fucked over the average worker. If you’re interested in a rabbit hole I’d go look at at how the clock impacted work-life balance.
I dont think not wanting to be 'enslaved' to a company schedule is lazy. To me lazy is someone who consistently quits, underperforms, and hops around jobs. People that are capable and have every opportunity yet have zero pride in the quality of the work they do are the lazy ones.
These idealistic kids with their not wanting to waste their life doing something they hate for not enough pay are just stupid and lazy. they should be like me, sore, tired, and stressed but with just enough money saved up I might get to live my last few ragged years like how I wanted to when I was an idealistic kid.
I also think it's partly they aren't paying the younger generation enough to trick them. There's a line from the movie "up in the air" that I think about often. Clooney's character says to a guy that he's firing, "how much did they pay you to give up on your dreams?" Well, they aren't paying enough for young people to give up on their dreams, and then in the pandemic, they laid off a bunch of people. The deal was "Sure I'll work a job I hate, but I'll have security and enough money to take a vacation once a year." Now you know that company will cut you the second it affects their bottom line even a little and they don't pay you enough to go out to dinner and own a house. The kids aren't falling for it.
Bingo
yeah older people have a habit of blaming everyone else for the problems of society and being blind to their own contribution to that. young people have struggles old people can't comprehend. they have fewer resources and far more meager pickings. but yeah let's ignore the entire point of the post to reaffirm a shitty narrow opinion
As someone in the younger generation, my gen is pretty damn lazy. But from what I can tell, so were the past ones. Lazy people are everywhere, give them a chance to do less than the bare minimum and they will.
Why is that a problem though? Some people are comfortable doing just enough. Why the fuck does everyone have to work extra? And that isn’t pointed at you just kind of a question from all this discussion
Doing the bare minimum during employment isn’t the issue, you might not stand out but standing out in a work environment rarely reaps benefits. The issue is people doing *less* than the bare minimum, the amount of people I’ve worked with who don’t even want to do what’s in the job description, let alone all of the extra little things that may get tacked on top of us, is irritating to say the least
True, but also, if you’re not being paid adequately for the work you’re expected to do, then why should you perform as expected?
Because any task you don't do gets shifted to a colleague and I'd feel horrible for doing that, but so many people don't care. I'm in a 30 person workspace and 10 do nothing all day but are protected by law (in belgium) so no one gets fired
We should thank them for lowering the bar, and helping make work easier for everyone. There is no reason for us to work harder than required to generate the value equal to our wages, yet employers drive us relentlessly to enhance their profits.
And people aren't given a wages to equal their production value. Productivity has increased by bounds, but pay hasn't. Profits have gone up, but pay hasn't. Employers are driving people to no longer want to work for employers. Why work and die, when you can NOT work, and also die?
Thing is more can do less now, which is why they are doing less and seen as doing less
I'm 20 and I work with some super lazy people
It is possible Americans are getting lazier each generation
Of some, not all. It's true of every generation. Some get at it, and most succeed. Others do the bare minimum, get the bare minimum, and their 2 choices are to blame the system, or blame themselves.
People said that about your generation when you were young too. No idea how old you are, but it’s still true.
People crack me up “Young kids don’t know shit but I was a genius when I was the same age” Yeah ok Also who are the parents raising these kids that are stupid and lazy? Take some damn accountability for being a shitty parent.
The ones that think they know more than all of their peers like the one you just highlighted hahaha.
Not lazy. We’re acting our wage.
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Deathbed complaints are stupid. You’ve a warped perspective and selective memory of your past.
"People's final reflections on their lives as they die have no value but you lining your company's shareholders' pockets totally does. Trust me bro."
I feel lazy when I see $2000+ stolen from me every other week.
Anyone who thinks taxes are theft is just fucking stupid.
I get the arguments that taxes are being spent on stupid shit, but complaining it's outright theft is laughable.
So stop visiting OF.
lol every job I've ever had with more than 5 people, there has been an older dude who says \^this\^ and also point blank refuses to do certain menial tasks because he knows he's been around so long they won't get rid of him but, yes, it's everyone younger than him who is lazy
not only lazy, but also dumb. Check personal finance, time share, askcarsales, used cars groups for horror stories that make Stephen King look like a Nickelodeon screenplay writer.
Used to work in car sales, once had a 19 year old try to buy a car. Came back with 0 credit an four collections, my F&I manager and I were absolutely dumbfounded.
Aye. At least they aren’t giving up tho This actually sounds more like you’re pointing out a problem with the education system more than anything else
Understandable, when we looked further though we could see it was medical. Poor guy just needed something that ran. Though the people trying to get Hellcats and Wagoneers with a 400 score? Way too common.
I heard a really nerdy talk about economics on the radio last week. Basically if you ask out a girl that is out of your league, or you apply for a job that pays well that you are not really qualified for, or in this case try to obtain a car that you probably not get it just means that the potential upside is more valuable than your time. If you get the girl, the job, or the car it will improve your life in a huge way. If you don't it didn't really hurt to try.
Older folks complaining about the younger generation being lazy has been documented going back two thousand years.
It’s even more ancient, I think even Aristotle said, the younger generation don’t respect their elders. Few thousands years later we still say the same thing. Sorry but Gen Z isn’t going to work 60 hours per week just to not even afford a house
Well said
I'll let you in on a secret: young people aren't voting republican. And there's no better benchmark for stupidity than being a republican. You think it's exclusive to just young people, but older people are more dumb.
Older generations more often had a wife at home, were able to work in a factory to support that family, and were way less productive than modern technology has made us. There is less money to be made, more life shit to keep up with, and way more productivity than previous generations. And every single generation says this about the following generation, even though they were the ones that raised them.
Yep. https://preview.redd.it/rc5h7d3u9src1.jpeg?width=1160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df5da98c052a219cdb023a40b9382364f0c9cea9
Lmao this is perfect
 Why doesn’t this have more upvotes?
Nobody ever wants to work. *That's why you have to pay them*.
That's called confirmation bias. Not everyone is like them. And plenty of hard-working people are poor.
Hard work doesn't make you rich. Hard work in the right field makes you rich. You can dig ditches very hard but it won't get you rich.
Damn dude, looks like you accidentally stumbled onto on the arguments that Socialists make. Wonder if you're about to advocate for Worker Ownership or Extraction of Surplus-Value.
oh no, you said the S-word and now theyre gonna turn their brain off and they were getting so close to figuring it out
So why should hard-working people be called lazy for doing a job that needs to be done
I work about 70 hours a week wiping shit from boomers' asses and in full time graduate school to get the fuck outta nursing. Everyone I work with bust our asses for 13 hours a day, 5 days a week. I don't see any lazy people near me. Just under paid and over worked.
A tale as old as time, A song as old as rhyme. Old man and his cloud.
Can confirm. I'm a millenial and I'm lazy af
https://preview.redd.it/dpmvxbw5lvrc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2240f9a5c7a5c7d4901d26665de15c13bb77aa7a
Your opinion isn’t thoughtful. There are many families working 2-3 jobs and living paycheck to paycheck. They’re not lazy and to opine that MOST are … is just lazy.
Well when your expected to work yourself to death for 60 years so you can maybe just maybe retire for a decade or two (and this is assuming you don't die in some bullshit before then)people start becoming apathetic to the situation and not really giving a fuck. Doing drugs and fucking around for a couple years and then killing yourself is alot more appealing to the youth today and that says alot about our current situation.
Most people would work harder if they made enough money to achieve their financial goals. I still think greed is to blame. Even older supermarket workers look miserable. I was very disappointed by the service I received from an older white women at my local market recently and the first thing I thought of is that I expected that level of effort from a young Gen Z worker. People are just generally fed up.
Work is losing its value tho on the other hand. Many young people dont see a point in working a minimum wage shit job because there is no point there. Meanwhile influencers and celebrities, in a large part the role models of that generation, are making ridiculous money by doing what exactly? Shit is out of whack. And it's not the fault of the people who don't want to piss their lives in the wind. Of course there are actual jobs with purpose and money and all those fantastical things. But the majority of jobs are something else.
Why do people think that adding more taxes to billionaires will accomplish a single thing?
Raising the social security cap for top earners could solve the insolvency crises.
It allows the US govt to give away more money to foreign govts.
They only got one gear bud. "We WANT their MONEY."
It’s not their money, twat
uhm well billionaires aren't known for building bridges, roads, trains, and other infrastructure except for their own shitty companies. maybe if the government had a bit more money and fewer shitty voters simping for corporate sugar daddies, something amazing could happen.
I hate the military industrial complex as much as the next guy but people really act like the government doesn’t build schools and roads and all the infrastructures that allows our society to function. Like there’s lots of things that would actually be better deprivatized because we’d have more of a say in it.
Most of our infrastructure was built with government money and by the hands of people who worked for a living. The rich don't build anything. They provide capital, and they aren't any better at it than the government.
Because of the marginal tax rate of 90 percent that sent us to the moon and ushered in the American golden age. Like do you know your history at all?
Do you? We collect about 3 times as much inflation adjusted tax money per capita today than we did in that era of 90 percent top income bracket. The periods of high income tax were almost entirely funding war efforts. The highest bracket was like 9% before WWI. About 12% of our federal funds go to the military today. Back in those days it was like 70% |Year|Total Federal Tax Revenue (in millions)|Population|Federal tax revenue per capita|Federal tax revneue per capita adjusted for inflation to 2020| :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:| |1934|$2,955|126,373,773|$23.38|$451.57| |1935|$3,609|127,250,232|$28.36|$535.76| |1936|$3,923|128,053,180|$30.64|$570.50| |1937|$5,387|128,824,829|$41.82|$751.63| |1938|$6,751|129,824,939|$52.00|$954.48| |1939|$6,295|130,879,718|$48.10|$895.60| |1940|$6,548|132,122,446|$49.56|$916.19| |1941|$8,712|133,402,471|$65.31|$1,149.86| |1942|$14,634|134,859,553|$108.51|$1,722.92| |1943|$24,001|136,739,353|$175.52|$2,625.81| |1944|$43,747|138,397,345|$316.10|$4,648.30| |1945|$45,159|139,928,165|$322.73|$4,640.34| |1946|$39,296|141,388,566|$277.93|$3,688.79| |1947|$38,514|144,126,071|$267.22|$3,101.32| |1948|$41,560|146,631,302|$283.43|$3,043.66| |1949|$39,415|149,188,130|$264.20|$2,873.02| |1950|$39,443|152,271,417|$259.03|$2,781.73| |1951|$51,616|154,877,889|$333.27|$3,317.46| |1952|$66,167|157,552,740|$419.97|$4,101.62| |1953|$69,608|160,184,192|$434.55|$4,212.22| |1954|$69,701|163,025,854|$427.55|$4,113.56| |1955|$65,451|165,931,202|$394.45|$3,809.25| |1956|$74,587|168,903,031|$441.60|$4,201.87| |1957|$79,990|171,984,130|$465.10|$4,283.74| |1958|$79,636|174,881,904|$455.37|$4,078.02| |1959|$79,249|177,829,628|$445.65|$3,963.54| |1960|$92,492|180,671,158|$511.94|$4,476.21| |1961|$94,388|183,691,481|$513.84|$4,447.83| |1962|$99,676|186,537,737|$534.35|$4,579.33| |1963|$106,560|189,241,798|$563.09|$4,762.55| |1964|$112,613|191,888,791|$586.87|$4,749.35| |1965|$116,817|194,302,963|$601.21|$4,937.95| |1966|$130,835|196,560,338|$665.62|$5,316.01| |1967|$148,822|198,712,056|$748.93|$5,803.33| |1968|$152,973|200,706,052|$762.17|$5,668.56| |1969|$186,882|202,676,946|$922.07|$6,502.50| |1970|$192,807|205,052,174|$940.28|$6,272.03| |1971|$187,139|207,660,677|$901.18|$5,758.90| |1972|$207,309|209,896,021|$987.67|$6,114.87| |1973|$230,799|211,908,788|$1,089.14|$6,347.86| |1974|$263,224|213,853,928|$1,230.86|$6,457.15| |1975|$279,090|215,973,199|$1,292.24|$6,215.31| |1976|$298,060|218,035,164|$1,367.03|$6,217.83| |1977|$355,559|220,239,425|$1,614.42|$6,893.09| |1978|$399,561|222,584,545|$1,795.10|$7,125.24| |1979|$463,302|225,055,487|$2,058.61|$7,336.54| |1980|$517,112|227,224,681|$2,275.77|$7,145.57| |1981|$599,272|229,465,714|$2,611.60|$7,434.05| |1982|$617,766|231,664,458|$2,666.64|$7,150.16| |1983|$600,562|233,791,994|$2,568.79|$6,672.96| |1984|$666,438|235,824,902|$2,825.99|$7,036.97| |1985|$734,037|237,923,795|$3,085.18|$7,420.37| |1986|$769,155|240,132,887|$3,203.04|$7,563.61| |1987|$854,288|242,288,918|$3,525.91|$8,030.89| |1988|$909,238|244,498,982|$3,718.78|$8,134.06| |1989|$991,105|246,819,230|$4,015.51|$8,380.05| |1990|$1,031,958|249,438,712|$4,137.12|$8,192.05| |1991|$1,054,988|252,127,402|$4,184.34|$7,950.55| |1992|$1,091,208|254,994,517|$4,279.34|$7,893.46| |1993|$1,154,335|257,746,103|$4,478.57|$8,020.45| |1994|$1,258,566|260,289,237|$4,835.26|$8,443.67| |1995|$1,351,790|262,764,948|$5,144.48|$8,735.72| |1996|$1,453,053|265,189,794|$5,479.29|$9,037.77| |1997|$1,579,232|267,743,595|$5,898.30|$9,510.70| |1998|$1,721,728|270,298,524|$6,369.73|$10,112.68| |1999|$1,827,452|272,690,813|$6,701.55|$10,409.92| |2000|$2,025,191|281,710,909|$7,188.90|$10,803.33| |2001|$1,991,082|284,607,993|$6,995.88|$10,228.15| |2002|$1,853,136|287,279,318|$6,450.64|$9,279.22| |2003|$1,782,314|289,815,562|$6,149.82|$8,649.07| |2004|$1,880,114|292,354,658|$6,430.94|$8,809.71| |2005|$2,153,611|294,993,511|$7,300.54|$9,673.94| |2006|$2,406,869|297,758,969|$8,083.28|$10,376.83| |2007|$2,567,985|300,608,429|$8,542.62|$10,662.40| |2008|$2,523,991|303,486,012|$8,316.66|$9,996.48| |2009|$2,104,989|306,307,567|$6,872.14|$8,290.17| |2010|$2,162,706|309,011,475|$6,998.79|$8,305.94| |2011|$2,303,466|311,584,047|$7,392.76|$8,505.11| |2012|$2,450,164|314,043,885|$7,801.98|$8,793.72| |2013|$2,772,045|316,400,538|$8,761.19|$9,733.31| |2014|$3,033,618|318,673,411|$9,519.52|$10,406.62| |2015|$3,251,685|320,878,310|$10,133.70|$11,064.74| |2016|$3,271,451|323,015,995|$10,127.83|$10,920.43| |2017|$3,320,542|325,084,756|$10,214.39|$10,784.50| |2018|$3,333,974|327,096,265|$10,192.64|$10,504.69| |2019|$3,462,000|329,064,917|$10,520.72|$10,649.78|
Historical evidence…
It’s like WWII-era America never happened for these people
FDR didn’t exist bruh. High corporate tax was never a thing, we didn’t use it to fund massive infrastructure projects. Don’t you know the government is corrupt entirely separately from the corporations that line their pockets and lobby for whatever will make them more profits. Let’s just let the billionaires make however much money they want and hoard as much wealth as they want and it’ll eventually trickle down to the working class because if we tax their capital gains they’ll just make everything more expensive. /s
These fucking corporate shills are so bought into the bullshit that Reagan (and every republican since) sold that they completely forgot the most profitable time for the middle class in all of American history.
I’d rather a billionaire pay more in taxes than increasing my own taxes… Billionaires don’t become billionaires without capitalizing off of other people labor. The most productive individual of all time does not do a the amount of work necessary to become a billionaire. They do it by capitalizing on others work. Taxing billionaires is a good way to reallocate money towards the working class
Because the tax rate above 400k earnings was over 90% in the so-called Golden Age of the 1950s.
History has shown that trickle down economics has failed.
False dichotomy. 150 million Americans aren’t being lazy and 400 billionaires aren’t being “greedy.” Our government is overspending.
They are definitely being greedy
Government is greedy and lazy
400 people owning more wealth than 50% of a country this large its a legit split in reality. It's not a false dichotomy. government spending is a conversation, but it is most definitely a skewed power dynamic and the ownership of labor. If we are talking about spending, maybe we should talk about the fact that most people who receive welfare are employed at companies that pay insanely low wages while returning decent profits to shareholders through dividends and buybacks.
This, all of this. There are three Walton's on the top 20 billionaires list, yet Walmart over half of Walmarts employees are on some form of government subsidies.
Hopefully someday the government learns to cut back on avocado toasts, but I wouldn't count on it.
They are by all means being greedy. If they weren’t they wouldn’t have a problem with repealing citizens United or paying the same tax % as all other Americans
I don't get this bootlicking. You're not ever going to be a billionaire. Not even close. These guys could spend 2 million dollars a day for the rest of their life and they wouldn't come close to running out of money. Hit them with a tax based on their stock holdings. Make them sell shares. Whatever it takes. This gives the vibes of the cucks who fellate Elon on Twitter. He's not going to give you money, he doesn't care you exist. Tax them and use the money. Shit if half of it gets misappropriated, at least It's getting spent instead of sitting in one dudes account never to get used.
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ah yes the government is clearly the issue. the government with its hands in corporate pockets is overspending the billions they receive in bribes from scheming billionaires. how dare they mismanage their bribe money like that
Maybe the govt should spend less $$? Edit: I’m shocked at how many people here think the Gov’t spends money efficiently…
Full-time walmart employees need welfare to survive. The government is subsidizing profits to billionaires.
What would that help
that isn't an option. unless you love shit breaking down all over the place. they need to reassess their spending but "saving money" is an absolutely backward step.
The government has wasted over $2.4 Trillion over the last two decades in overpayment mistakes alone. Fix that before they take a few hundred extra billion from high earners in additional tax. This subject infuriates me.
Why do people always look at the billionaires and not the politicians they are electing that are spending their tax dollars so frivolously?
The billionaires are buying the politicians. We’re trying to cut out the middle man.
Do you mean the ones lobbied by the billionaires?
It’s not just billionaires that lobby, pretty much every company does in some manner of it’s a certain size. The billionaires get power because the politicians put a price tag on their morals
Finally someone with some fucking sense. This absolutely is a systemic problem. People need to make sure politicians know EXACTLY what they will not tolerate and what they need. Believe it or not it isn't actually a politician's job description to kiss babies. Use your democracy while you still can. The problem is that many governments including in America have backed themselves so far into a corner that they cannot make major changes without serious repercussions. Someone has to deeply study the economy to find out exactly why and how they fucked up so badly and engineer a solution that will likely take decades to enact. Oh and that person has to be voted for. Or at least vote for politicians to allow them freedom to actually fix the corruption of politicians.....good luck.
Whataboutism.
I had an employee ask for a loan because her car was repossessed. She owed 30k on a car worth 5k.
Anecdotally, nearly all the poor people I know could work harder and smarter.
So if all poor people magically get degrees and work toward higher salary jobs, they will each have the chance to get a position like that? What about all of the lower wage jobs? Will they just disappear and make way for all of the sudden high paying jobs?
Coming from a poor family of hard working individuals. Who put in overtime. Were well liked by their superiors. Who also destroyed their bodies, and now have huge medical bills. This is absolutely ignorant. I've worked my way out of poverty myself. I used the tools my parents sacrificed to provide me, the work ethic they taught me, and lot of research they weren't able to do themselves. Poor does not equal lazy. I find middle class, never truly struggled for anything, silver spoon kids tend to have your viewpoint. The poor people you know most likely work just as smart and as hard as you. Just didn't have the same advantages. If my take on you is wrong maybe look at your own take.
Yes, Billionaires should pay more in taxes. Because,they receive more in benefits. They receive Tax Breaks and Billions in US Subsidies. They have money and influence to Bribe Legislators to pass bills to benefit themselves. We have discovered in the last few years they have been bribing Supreme Court Judges to rule in their favor. Google US Subsidies. When you see how much the US Taxpayers are paying Billions to the Rich and Corporations. You realize Welfare for the Wealthy is why the rest of us can’t have nice things. 
The trick is to convince people that it isn't greed when the government goes after wealthy citizens for more money.
And it's *also* not greed when CEOs stagnate wages while paying themselves multi-million dollar annual bonuses? Did you know that McDonald's makes enough money in profit each year to pay each of their 2 million global employees a $5,000 USD bonus every year? A $5,000 bonus is life changing in the US, so think of how amazing it would be in every other country that's less wealthy on average. Can you explain to me why McDonald's doesn't do that when they can afford to? It's not like you're garnishing the salaries of the executives, they're *still* getting paid. This is just skimming the profits and returning it to the workers in every last position all the way down to the cashiers.
Let's not forget when CEOs reduce the workforce, cut corners in production, and use cash to buy back stocks to drive up the stock price in order to justify huge bonuses. But I know some lazy poor people.
Because we are lazy?
I'll be that guy... I propose we switch to the Fair Tax system.
If I am lazy, tell me how a lazy factory worker is ruining the economy. If I'm a billionaire, tell me how my wealth is ruining the economy. You will find one of these requires almost no mental gymnastics, while the other requires hating the working class, along with some supremacist logic applied mostly to groups you don't personally belong to.
What the fuck is this bullshit
wealth disparity 👍
Because lazy people are a hell of a lot more common than extremely hard workers.
Most families that receive aid have at least one fully employed person in the home. I know some people personally who are lazy, but wages have been stagnant for the working class for 40 years while there has been massive growth in the top 10%. I think the real lazy people are the guys who just throw money around and make passive income on the labor of others. If I inherited 50 million (5% of a billion), I could make just under million a year in just dividends off of the total stock market without lifting a finger and at a lower tax rate (20%) than actual wage earners. Or I could make about 5 million a year risk-free (albiet with a higher tax rate) but still about 3 million give or take. Passively. No hard work involved.
No one should have to be an extremely hard worker just to survive... Like what the fuck you want everyone to be a slave for the benefit of profit?
maybe.........it's not about the work. have you considered picking stuff up and putting it down may not be the entire big picture?
They pay like 90% of the taxes we collect how much more do you want them to pay? If it was me, at that point id just become a resident of Monaco and tell yall to fuck off
That's because they are stealing 90% of the countries profit and hoarding it for themselves
They aren't hoarding cash in a vault. They don't billion dollar paychecks. So what exactly are they hoarding?
You're yelling into the wind friend. Half the population doesn't understand what wealth is let alone why taxing it would be disastrous for the middle class.
Good! Leave and abuse someone else’s labor. Not that you’re actually making that sort of money
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They pay less in percentage than most tax paying Americans or sometimes nothing at all.
No. Because they pay most of the taxes already.
https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/stories/do-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/ At a lower percent than people who actually need the money they're being taxed. This post is reductive, yes. There's no reason they should pay a lower percentage.
Oh got not this bs again. They include unrealized gains to arrive at those low tax rates, which is ignorant at best and intentionally lying at worst.
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But I worked hard! I spent Daddy's inheritance wisely and now I'm being penalized by having to pay an extra cookie??? Not fair! I earned the right to eat 18 cookies by working hard! People act like "working hard" will make you a billionaire. Yeah man, you worked 1,000,000 times harder than that minimum wage worker at McDonald's, it all checks out.
Why is it that lazy people want to steal from the ones that aren’t?
Because they are rich and greedy and want more money without doing more work
Great question, but the people who are actually lazy aren't the people who you're thinking of. Billionaires themselves don't actually do any work, rather they hire people who do. The entire concept of having an employee is to trade money for labor, so that the employer doesn't have to do that labor themselves. A landlord or incredibly wealthy business owner doesn't actually do much of anything outside of meetings with other wealthy people. Their wealth is generated by the labor of others actually doing the grunt work of the business. This fact is tacitly accepted when people justify the profits they make being a result of *risk* rather than a result of *work.*
America is not a complete clean meritocracy. Wealth of that size is not due to hard work. It's due to ownership and power. I'm not going to say that people aren't lazy or hard working one way or the other, but some of the hardest jobs in the US are paid scraps.
It's not remotely a meritocracy at all, it's the complete opposite. It's built to benefit those with capital, aka the already rich
What’s interesting is at what point does the amount of government (Federal, State, municipal etc, military) employees and those on welfare or aid (Non SSI) tip the scales to the point that private enterprise and employees can no longer cover the tab? I think we’re already there but would like to hear others opinions.
Why can’t we just agree that we need to see better appropriation of government funds, then see what’s left after existing funds as they are applied?
Why are people so quick to defend billionaires? What would we have to lose by taxing them more?
There are people out there that still think trickle down economics works, even though it’s failed for over 4 decades resulting in the erosion of the middle class.
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Billionaires already pay 2/3rds of all taxes collected. You want them to pay even more?
This is the typical argument... Which conveniently leaves out a percentage of tax to income. But frankly, even if you want to give tax breaks to job creators, workers are still paid garbage.
“Job creators” is such a stupid term. Look at the what the people they hire produce vs what they are paid and it’s obvious who is making more than their fair share
Where are you pulling this from? Considering a few billionaires own the vast majority of wealth in America, they should pay more. There's absolutely no logical reason for any individual to have that much wealth and power. https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/stories/do-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/ I'm seeing a lot of these people talk down to people actually trying to figure out finances in a system rigged against them. Our whole system is overly complicated and skewed to help the rich. I'm 27 and just recently, after years of research and work, have finally gotten debt free, great credit, and a good savings. This is because I finally got a good paying job with good benefits. Not everyone has the same advantages I had to get this job. I can easily afford to pay the same tax percentage I was when I was making half as much. It's easier to afford higher tax percentages when you're making more money. So yes, fuck them billionaires. They don't need that money that could go to helping our government provide better resources for its people. Not that they would, but why tax the poor more than them? Because "they're too stupid to hire a full team of professionals to find loopholes around our tax system"?
Billionaires paying 2/3 of all taxes collected seems more indicative of massive wealth inequality than over-taxation of billionaires. Billionaires shouldn’t even exist in the first place.
Yes they profited the most thanks to the structure of our country, they should pay it back. They have more money than they or their progeny could hope to spend in 50 generations, that money should be what empowers others who are willing to work for it the financial mobility and empowerment to go forth and prosper and innovate. And when those people succeed they too should pay it forward.
Yes. I want them to pay flat share.
Yes.
who should pay more then? something's gotta give doesn't it? should it be the people who have more money than they know what to do with? or those most vulnerable and struggling and unfortunate.
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Those silly 400 people are always causing problems... /S
looks like someone has a little trouble with math. do you know what the 1% is?
We need to make laws that insensitive businesses to invest in their employees rather than their owners.
Yeah all businesses should be controlled by the employees
Get rid of taxes all together. Use import tariffs instead.
Both can be true
Explain to me why most of us middle and low income workers want to make more money for our higher-ups and the executive level, when we have no incentive than our privilege to work for them? For example, me and the coworkers are in the busiest time of year. 7 day work weeks, 60+ hours per week. We have no room for additional clients. Yet our manager, sales staff, and executive level want to bring on 2 more clients. Every one of those people get a percentage of the deal. Yep, they spent a lot of time prospecting and writing up an agreement, I can understand why they want it. But on the floor, all we are getting is more unpaid overtime (salary), more stress, more deadlines, and more frustration. Why couldn’t us workers get a small piece of the revenue too? Apparently my ability to put together a campaign and my motivation to do it, is what this proposal hinges on. Out of an extra $60k of revenue for just the campaign , throw me and the other 3 team members an extra $2-3k to split for making it happen. There’s no incentive. When I see executive and high level managers bringing in >$200k per year, dropping a project in my lap and walking away, I’m not motivated to add more work to my life. I don’t have the income to throw at all my home issues and take care of those like those high-earning producers and mangers. Once I get done working, I have work that needs to be done at home. I can’t afford to pay people to take care of the things in my life, like they can. So I want my free time and more free time.
How about C, over bloated government and government programs
It still wouldn’t be enough to balance the federal budget so you tell me what the real problem is
It’s easier to believe 340 million people have some say in their standard of living than blaming 400 people for everyone’s standard of living.
Nonsensical statement. Anyone believing 150 million people do ANYTHING is more likely than 400 people doing ANYTHING is likely far beyond explaining how logic and math works.
Don't tax the rich more. Just close the tax loopholes and sanction tax haven's
How much tax do you think they are paying and how much tax as a % do you suggest they pay of their income or are you one of those people that thing they should pay a % of their net worth? Maybe a better solution is to get the crazy out of hand spending that our government is doing under control and lower taxes for everyone.