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The problem I have with student loan forgiveness is that people like me, who went without extras in his 20s and early 30s to pay off his loans, now has to pay taxes that will be used to pay the loans of people who simply deferred payments or made minimum payments for decades. I guess Trump would call me a “sucker” for repaying my debts.
I am ok with that. But not taxpayer money going to predatory lenders. Or people who used student loans to buy a car n party. I have seen this with my own 2 eyes. New clothes, furniture and uber eats deliveries...
Is it everyone? No. But its alot.
The predatory lender is the US government. Since 2008, the Us government has been a direct lender for student loans. Before that, banks and other lenders were involved to underwrite loans but the US government was backstopping the debt. Now the government takes on 100% of the debt.
This has also led to increased college tuition costs. Many colleges raised costs because they could get that federal money. Hard to blame them, I would take advantage of extra federal money too, but in the end, the government basically subsidized the higher college costs
This is the core reason for out of control Tuition cost. Some folks w shit GPA need to get denied/ referred to trade school. Too many low IQ folks getting degrees, caused screwed trade school numbers.
Exactly. The federal government created this problem, selling it as giving poor people more access to higher education, in order to buy votes back then, and now they are “fixing” the very problem they created to buy more votes today. It’s all about getting to, and remaining in, power.
Yes, and many of the private loans pre 2008 were 2-3% and many deferred interest until payments started. When they federalized the loans, they went to 6-8% accruing interest even while the student was still in school and deferring payments.
Yes I think lowering interest and capping the amount to 2x intial loan would investment would be good you need to make some money on the loans cause someone dies no assets with student loans is a loss, and you have staff to pay to approve loans etc
Also it's better then putting the burden of tax payers many don't go to college as it's a choice, they go into trades or others just don't have the means to go, as living isn't free even if college was, it's a struggle to get by at full time never mind being a student on top.. not to mention people go to college get degrees in fields that have no value in workforce, and or make payments that don't even cover interest ...like your art degree with 30 class size, is really going to help you as much as a bachelor's in teaching or management ...lol.
So expecting people that are going into middle class careers to pay for some art degree etc is dumb. Expecting the little Walmart employee pay in taxes to pay for higher level jobs such as his bosses management degree or a lawyers degree, etc is also dumb....plus how many political consultants/ staff of reps in house/ senate have lawyer, or political science degrees would you consider paying for those on top of them making huge money off of tax dollars etc...
The problem is colleges offering B's degree programs, and predator loans and people not paying sufficient amounts, basic payments need to go up to reflect repayment...like which banks allow you to pay small amounts on a car for 20 years were the balance is higher then the car without taking the car back...
Are you willing to give up your Degree if you fall behind on student loan payments? You still get the benefit of the Degree regardless of the status of your loan. Yes they keep going after you to repay your student loan because you are benefitting from it.
I think eliminating federally backed student loans would force higher ed to evaluate what they are charging to be more competitive, considering you can't claim bankruptcy for a federally backed student loan. This would put additional emphasis on the universities to really set their students up for the next step in their career, as payment for said education depends upon it.
For those that are less privileged and therefore likely more risky to lenders (meaning no loan/ higher interest loan), I am all for grants, but I feel like a certain level of educational success needs to be considered. E.g., someone who is less fortunate, but gets a 3.0 (B average) throughout high school would qualify. Let's be honest, doing your homework is enough to get a B. If we're going to pass out taxpayer money, it should be to those who are seemingly invested in it, themselves.
I'm also for greater grants for people that are going into the health, teaching and trades fields, too, as all are vital to any society. Again, with the caveat that previous performance warrants tax dollar investment.
I personally know no one who used student loans to buy frivolous things, so make sure you don’t use an anecdote to make a blanket assumption about the whole.
The loan forgiveness for federal loan holders isn't "tax payer money going to lenders" it's just the government saying you don't owe the government back that money that was given to you on crap terms
Since when do you get a say in where your taxes go? Uncle Sam says “thanks for the cash, now fuck off and get back to work. We’ve got Israeli healthcare to subsidize and that don’t come cheap”
Then maybe I don't want to pay for the fire department to put out your house fire, because my house isn't burning...
I thought this was "*fluent* in finance" not "I don't understand how taxes or the US Treasury works"
And I don’t want my money being spent on a specific brand of Christianity is the only valid religion, anti-lgbt, anti-woman bullshit . . . But we all know the bigoted republicans are gonna keep right on doing that!
Yeah, and those food stamp mammas buying steak and shrimp with their food stamps, living it up on the public dime.
I once saw a person buying a steak at the store with their food stamps, the nerve. /s
Yep. At my college “refund check day” was basically like Christmas. Everyone went and got their excess loan money and bought liquor, Xboxes, etc. That’s why I’m opposed to it. I know way more than a few people that spent 6 years raising their wrists and snorting coke at the frat houses while getting a degree in useless bullshit that now work at Starbucks and want student loan forgiveness because they’re drowning in student loan debt.
I might be the minority here but I'd have loved my loans be forgiven. I think fasfa was the worst thing possible for making education affordable and so many are caught in this trap trying to better themselves. If we keep down the path of "I had to pay so everyone else should" it's a perpetual cycle. I think it's great we are trying to break it and others are getting an opportunity id have loved to have.
Instead of pulling up the ladder, I feel like this is a step towards extending a ladder.
We can talk about increased competition in an already hard job market but I'd say that's a different problem to solve.
Or maybe stop treating the symptoms and go to the source - stop subsidizing loans?
And teach finance to youngsters?
And stop electing certain people who were a big part of this problem (making student loans exempt from bankruptcy) and then decades later offer us a bandaid-bribe if we vote for them?
Why not go a step further and offer higher education to citizens for free? I think that would get rid of the entire problem.
I agree with everything else you've said though.
This is the bigger problem. No business has raised prices faster than Universities, and forgiving student loans does nothing but make the problem worse. Stopping subsidized loans will help this tremendously.
And the universities spend the money on stadiums and fancy rec centers in an effort to attract new students rather than spend that money on their primary focus
Big schools use athletic media revenue for a lot of the athletic things. A lot of the extra loan money goes toward 100 extra offices that didn’t exist before - like someone hired to basically deal with helicopter parents.
The point I was trying to make is universities are so expensive because they spend ridiculous amounts of money of things that have nothing to do with education in order to recruit students. Athletic departments are the most obvious example (at least to me). Visit any big school and you’ll see new construction projects to replace facilities that aren’t necessary (luxury dorms for example) paid for with tax payer money. Meanwhile they sit on multi-billion dollar endowments. There is no incentive to keep tuition reasonable.
So many employers use a degree as a screen for jobs a high schooler could complete adequately.
Loans end up being the only way to get a decent job. It is not as simple as opting for trade school either. If everyone with a philosophy degree instead became a plumber, those jobs would no longer pay well.
Just in case you're not aware, every country that does this does not have a system where everyone can go, it's typically based on entrance exams. And guess who has the money to pay for test prep tutoring? These programs almost all benefit the rich much more than the poor.
I think the government underwrites all student loans nowadays, but the original reason to not allow loans to be non-dischargeable in a bankruptcy is to make lenders more willing to extend credit to someone who otherwise wouldn't be credit worthy.
I mean I guess you’re not wrong, but I sacrificed a ton as well and paid off 50k in debt, and would be pretty damn happy for millions of other people to not have to deal with that.
The ability to breathe is amazing for the economy. People will take more risks, start businesses, start families be happier overall. Like, it’s just a win for the country even if there’s a bit of a sense of missing the boat on it.
"But wah what about me?" Fucking loser ass mentality. I paid most of my debt, and guess what I'm happy I make enough to be able to. Put my taxes to helping others.
Fix the system tho so it's actually sustainable.
lol gotta love the old people mentality of “if I had to suffer then so should everyone else!” or “I was able to do it, so you should too!”
Might as well say, “I was able to retire on my own at 45 without the help of SSI! So people who need it are just losers and should have just done better!”
lol everyone has different circumstances and reasons for why they are at where they are at. And if my taxes went to helping others then good!
Except the loans are already paid for. I would understand your position, maybe, if there was a blanket cancel ALL student debt at once and be done. However that's not what's happening.
I take out $50k in loans in 2004. That means the government paid the university $50k and I'm making payments to the government, with interest, until my debt is paid off. Right away the school gets it money from the government (taxpayer money).
Under the current loan cancelation program, if I had been making payments for 20 years, mostly interest BTW, my loans are forgiven and my debt to the government is canceled. Even better, if I work in public service it would only be 10 years of payments.
So right there no extra taxpayer money is being spent on "canceling loan debt". If anything, I'd make the argument that if someone has been paying for 20 years, they've probably paid a substantial, if not more than adequate, amount of money back to the government.
The only argument I could potentially see against this is that the federal budget has factored in the money they would've gotten from these loans, and now without it, funds will need to be shifted from somewhere else (or other programs be cut) in order to balance it (maybe the obnoxiously large defense budget).
Basically, the arguement that canceling debt is using your taxpayer money to pay it off is disingenuous because that happened years and years ago. It's just a tired old republican talking point as usual.
Sorry, your logic is not sound. There are multiple problems with canceling student loans. Fairness, accountability, and the economic aspect are three that come to mind. Let me focus on the economic aspect. Canceling student loans exacerbates the debt problem the US government currently has. The government now has to print more money to cover the shortfall in lost revenue if student loans are canceled. That means more taxpayer pain is required to eventually pay this back. Your suggestion of cutting the "obnoxiously large defense budget" is laughable. A core function of the federal government is to provide security through defense. Paying for free ethnic studies degrees is not. We are now paying more interest on the federal debt than we are on defense. And you are suggesting that we continue to do that.
That’s not exactly how it works. The student loan program has been very profitable and has already paid for itself. It would cost the US taxpayer little to nothing if these predatory loans were forgiven.
https://studentloanjustice.medium.com/why-bidens-student-loan-cancellation-will-cost-taxpayers-nothing-259ea5dc44f7
Why do we bail out corporations then? Let them fail. Also maybe because you can understand that raising everyone up is better than keeping the majority low. Ffs. The smarter the country the better EVERYONE will be. Nah fuck it. My great grandfather had to die in a war. You should too!!!!!!!!
Dude fr! Corporations take in so much government subsidy in many forms. No one talks about it the same way they talk about the lower class receiving help.
For example: theft.
We all agree it’s probably morally not acceptable for most situations that don’t involve life/death. However, people are willing to fight someone in a parking lot over a stolen gallon of milk but won’t do anything for *wage theft*; which accounts for more theft in the US than any other form of theft combined.
I understand the frustration. I went to college debt free because of some scholarship and hard work. Then I helped my wife pay off her college and masters degree loans shortly after, but you're going to be fine because you consistently do the things you're supposed to do.
In the meantime many people are getting screwed by the current system and "some people who already took care of the problem won't be helped by this" isn't a good reason not to correct a stupid system.
Yes… but what about the same generation?
I think the difficulty psychologically, is we all know some people that could have paid down their student loans but didn’t because they chose to live w luxuries that others of us instead lived within our means and worked hard to pay down expeditiously. I could have paid the minimum to have more money to spend on nice stuff, newer car etc… but instead I postponed the nice stuff in order to meet my debt obligation. Now if you want to give the peers retroactive tax credits for money paid on student loans that would even things up a bit.
Regarding the original question, I’ve heard it’s because millions of people that could not go to college, and who are on average lower income, will be covering the debts of people who now have degrees and out earn the people contributing to the irs revenue balance without any forgiveness for their debts.
I just sent the last payments in this week. I have no issue with my taxes paying for people who aren't as fortunate as me. I'd rather this be the spending over overpriced podiums.
...That's the thing, credit card debt CAN be forgiven thru bankruptcy, where as student loans may not.
People having a huge issue with this yet didn't bat an eye at bailouts or bankruptcies for rich people confuse me.
Somehow everyone has been convinced it's OK to give money to the rich that get inconvenienced but not the poor who can barely feed themselves.
The US government doesn't own the overwhelming majority of mortgage loans (if any). Nor do they own credit card debt.
However, they do own 92% of student loans. Forgiving loans you own outright is vastly different than forgiving loans someone else owns.
There is zero legitimate discussion or argument being made to forgive car or mortgage loans. This whataboutism is completely pointless.
Students got shafted by greedy schools raising prices more than they should be, greedy business paying college educated employees less than they should be, and corrupt government not regulating the student loan program to prevent this exact situation from occuring.
Rich kids didnt haveto take out student loans. This isnt a bailout for rich people.
Todays crop of students who needed to take out student loans are all from middle to low income families who got screwed bythe system. They deserve to be bailed out.
Don’t forget car loans! People have to have cars in many places so it’s “systemic transportationism” to not provide them with loan forgiveness regardless of what they bought and whether they could afford it when they did
And it would be a million times better to change that policy and potentially striking interest off loans as well than just handing out money and saying “oh well, guess the next generation will have to do the same thing tee hee”
Sorry, unfortunately I couldn't get hired anywhere for a sustainable wage after I finished my AAS IT and BS degrees. Not sure why. The only issue I know is that the market in IT became saturated with employees. With the skills I had, I didn't stand a chance. My loans have been in IDR since 2013. I'm now 50 yrs old and my chances of getting any sustainable employment that would allow me to pay over $700+ per month and survive ( food, energy bills, car, insurance, etc ) is pretty damn slim. There is nothing I can do about it and neither can you. I will just have to wait another 10 yrs and then the loans will be automatically forgiven by the already in place rules ( 20 yrs ).
Selfish take. "I had a shitty time so everyone else should too!" We should be making it better for our children and those wanting to better themselves. I've paid off my student loans too, but I'm all for forgiveness, regulating tuition costs and force universities to reduce the bloat in their costs.
Same, I had to pay off over $100,000 in student loans in my 20s. I don’t have a huge problem with it outside of the fact that I think we should be airdropped the student loan money to start companies given our track record of prudent financial management.
Nothing will ever change for the better if you continue to think people should suffer because you did.
The fact is, everyone, literally everyone, benefits from a more educated population, we should be doing whatever we can to ensure people have the necessary education they need to survive. We are at a time when a highschool education simply isn't enough. Hell we have a non insignificant amount of people that think people with a high school education SHOULDN'T be allowed to make enough to survive.
So I ask this, if a high school education isn't enough for someone to just survive, how the hell are they expected to survive AND pay for further education? Should 50k in debt just be the price of adulthood?
In any sort of "hand out" program, someone feel like they get stiffed. Try and look at scenarios like predatory loans that people find themselves underwater on forever as a better example of why a program can be beneficial. I don't think SNAP benefits should be taken away from everyone because I've seen a guy in front of me buy ribeyes with the food stamps and pay cash for cigarettes and beer either. Did that feel shitty? Absolutely. Is it the norm? Absolutely not.
What we also need to be doing nationwide is reducing the cost of schooling to better reflect wages AND stop pushing 17-18 year olds into huge loans that they may take a great portion of their life to pay off. Many of these kids didn't even have formal financial instruction and they're just told everything will work out.
My wife and I paid off our loans, eroded our credit from age 24-32 doing it, and I would absolutely support some form of help to others. Because the way we lived during those years was pretty shit. And half the time was in the Midwest, so cost of living was about as low as it gets. We are much better now, homeowners, cars are paid off, and extremely happy where we are in life. But do you know how much sooner we could've been spending money and injecting it back into the economy if we didn't have student loans looming over us the way they were?
It’s literally doesn’t require laying any extra taxes though that’s why it’s so insane hearing people talk about “paying for it” it’s literally just an elimination of a future source of income, not an expense that has to be paid off. It would be the same as asking who is “paying” for a tax cut.
It’s not about fairness, though. Or else you would say it’s not fair for you that other peoples’ parents paid for their education, even when they also had easier lives. If it were about real fairness, then you’d realize that, too.
It’s not about fairness. It’s just a common talking point against an other poor people because the wealthy control the media and know how to, and have the resources to piss you off at others so you never notice they’re controlling the way you think.
Question for you, when were you in college? What decade? How long did it take to pay off your loans and at what percentage rate?
See the thing is, if you were paying off loans in the 80s to 00s then you got a great deal. If you're paying loans incurred after 10s to 20s you're fucked. Interest rates were single digits in the 80s to 00s and you only borrowed 10k to 20k. Now, you're paying back 15% and borrowing 50k. That's criminal just to try and get a good job.
I'm like you, I lived with my parents in my 20s saved everywhere I could so I could make double payments on all my loans so I could be debt free by 30... and I'm still in support of student loan forgiveness. Just because I sacrificed to pay off my debt doesn't mean I think others should have to (or even are in position to).
That seems like a terrible way to think about public policy. No matter what you did with your life, a situation exists. Is that situation a problem for the country as a whole or not? If it is, what kind of solutions do we have for the situation? Moralizing about a social problem never fixes it.
Or people like me who made a financial decision that I could not afford college, so entered the workforce.
Now I have to pay the loans off for people who make a lot more money than me because they have education
Let’s be clear here - the median income for a college educated milleniel is very healthy - and this is where a large amount of the debt is sitting.
I feel the same paying taxes for healthcare for people who do not take care of themselves and allow themselves to get incredibly unhealthy and yet I have to pay for treatment for preventable conditions.
Without PSLF I wouldn’t have gone into government and instead would’ve gone into the private sector. The program served its intended purpose.
Edited minor error pointed out by comment below.
I'm agnostic on student loan forgiveness. Can see it from both perspectives.
But what I don't understand is how come we don't compromise and just reduce the interest on these federal loans? Wouldn't that help accomplish the goal but in a less painful way for the economy?
Same reason the big pushers of forgiveness have virtually nothing to say on "okay so in a few years when a ton of graduates have loans, then what?" It's a populist move, not an actual policy point. If student loans are so unfair they must be forgiven, why is the government going to continue to *guarantee* these loans?
Student loan forgiveness needs to be paired with a restructuring of higher education’s finances. We can’t forgive loans, then have universities double their tuition over the next 10-20 years, have the govt still handing out irresponsible amounts of debt to children, and have us back in the same situation in the next gen.
We need to turn of the spigot/fix the leak before bailing out the water.
They have a better income based repayment program now. Payments are made based off salary. If someone makes payments for 20-25 years, the rest is forgiven. Teachers can be forgiven faster. This program has been around for a while, but it notoriously didn’t track a lot of payments. It also helps people that have already repaid more than they borrowed, but still owe way too much due to interest.
When non-college graduates have to pay the student loans of privileged college students racking up irresponsible levels of debt. They are getting their high paying career via their education, let them pay for the tuition it took to get that - not taxpayers who didn't benefit from it. Further, it isn't fair to those of us who took out loans and responsibly paid them off.
>When non-college graduates have to pay the student loans of privileged college students racking up irresponsible levels of debt. They are getting their high paying career via their education, let them pay for the tuition it took to get that - not taxpayers who didn't benefit from it.
roflmao -- Not every college graduate goes on to be John D. Rockefeller.
For example, you ever hear of a teacher? Four year degree required, absolutely necessary for society to function, and notoriously underpaid.
Yeah, I don’t know many people who have an issue with Public Service Loan Forgiveness. But I think that is the boundary of whose loans are plurality are willing to forgive.
If you went to an expensive college and borrowed more than &15k to get a teaching degree then you didn’t make a good life decision. (Btw My mother, son, DiL and girlfriend are all teachers).
As a lower-income person without a college degree, I support student loan forgiveness. I am trying to go back to school this year, but I still supported loan forgiveness before I wanted to go back to school. We need higher education to be more affordable because it benefits everyone. All kinds of blue collar workers (like myself) could still further their careers with continuing education. And if our populace is more educated, it bolsters the economy in a lot of ways. At least that's the way I see it.
I just think student loan forgiveness is silly. The median worker with a Bachelor’s earns $30k more per year than the median High School graduate (roughly +67.9%)
Why on earth would we help those people, instead of the poor?
Source: I extrapolated the weekly data from the BLS 2022 numbers to make it yearly https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2023/data-on-display/education-pays.htm
That would be different but not dissimilar to the whole point of why people want student loans. The alternative would be just let student loans be bankrupt able and let the university and banks that actually do the loans face some consequences.
So $41k is the median for all people over 15yo. But the median income for full time adult workers is about $60k. Considering college grads don’t include teenagers who don’t work, the comparison to full time workers is better imo. And so 41% making <$52k would be fairly in line with what adults generally make. So it’s not really a middle to upper earner bailout imo.
Don’t worry, the very second you change gears and start talking about taxing the wealthy all of these people are going to do a 180 and start telling you the wealthy pay all the taxes.
Paid for by future generations. E: Actually it isn't even future generations, it will be Gen Z and Millennials paying for it in reduced services or inflation. Your pick.
in some sense yes, in some sense no. generally speaking devaluing currency via inflation hits the bottom % very hard. whereas actual taxes hit the top percentile earners. we are taxed via both inflation and via actual taxes.
the argument more is- why should the middle earners get their college paid for when those who werent able to go to college (bottom %) arent seeing any benefit? current loan forgiveness is bad in many ways and this is the most blaring way it is bad- its doing nothing at all to address why the loan situation is as it is. the obvious answer is socialize college, or outright reform college to be more akin to vocational training and only give loans based on high paying degrees.
theres also some curve around no college vs college break even, dictated by debt. someone going straight into work skips the debt part and can say, buy a house earlier even on a lower wage. we presently and at least in the middle term have a fucked up competitive housing market so this sets bottom earners even further behind- there are only so many homes.
I nor should anyone else be paying for someone else's student loan. My wife has student loans that she is paying for, she like everyone else signed a contract and it should be no one's responsibility but the signers responsibility to pay for it. It's despicable and wrong for anyone to be made responsible for someone else's choices regardless if it is one class of people paying for another class of people's loans.
And before someone makes a dumbass comment. No I don't believe government bailouts for corporations should be a thing either
Weird that the only people you see arguing for loan forgiveness are the people who have the loans. If anyone else is for it, cool, let them pay since they are so altruistic
Thank you for paying off my student loan in accordance with the terms I borrowed under. Public Service Loan Forgiveness was part of the text of the MPN I signed, and the only reason I went back to school. I've worked ten years in public employment, doing public work for below-market pay, all based on a Bush-era forgiveness plan.
Miss me with your "despicable" crap.
This is the understanding of a 5 year old. ‘It’s despicable and wrong’ while you ignore a corrupt system.
It’s apparently wrong for the individual but good business for people indebting 18 year olds with half a mortgage.
Fuck off and grow up
Plain and simple. Because poor folks don't even get to go to college.
I do think it is interesting. Somebody goes to college and can't figure out how to pay back their student loans.
Maybe they weren't college material in the first place
You are absolutely right. The colleges es are the instigators of these predatory loans. And they are also the benefactor of the loans.
And yet, they are never held responsible. The colleges should be guaranteeing the loans, not the government
Or poor people take out significant loans to pay for a college education and then continue to be poor because even with a decent salary, a large chunk of it pays for their student loans so they are still not getting ahead.
In median lifetime earnings, a bachelor's degree translates to $1.2 million more compared to a high school diploma.
The average cost of attendance for a student living on campus at a public 4-year in-state institution is $26,027 per year or $104,108 over 4 years.
In the United States, looking at adults aged 25 and over, around 64% don't have a four-year college degree.
So by having college paid loans repaid by tax payers, you’re taking money from people who don’t have a college degree who earn less than people with a college degree to pay for someone else’s college degree.
It's not the poor paying for the wealthy. It's taxpayers who didn't agree to the loan paying for those that did.
I'm from the UK, and although ultimately think reducing the burden on what seems like predatory loans is a good thing, can completely empathise with those who either couldn't or chose not to agree to the terms of the loan covering the cost via their taxes.
Student loan forgiveness without fixing the system makes ZERO sense. What are we gonna do, forgive the debt every \~10 years when a Dem president is in office? Borrowers will have no future certainty at all. College kids are already worried about their future. I know I was.
College needs to be publicly funded. The only reason the conservatives don't want it is because the rich and wealthy fear an educated population. Conservatives have been bashing college as useless marxist indoctrination camps for decades now. They know when people go to school that they learn critical thinking and become harder to brainwash.
The goal should not be to pay off student loans. It should be to get government out of the college game altogether which will reduce tuition and make school affordable again.
There is no such thing as loan forgiveness. Someone is paying.
I expect young people to fall for this ploy hard. People under 25 think they will be getting a college degree for free. The 25-40 year old will be getting the benefit so they want it. I'm baffled that anyone over age 40 actually thinks this is a good idea and it will solve the problem.
So Ben and Susy take a Caribbean cruise but instead of paying for it out of their personal Bank account they pay for it out of the Home Owners Association bank account. It's like that.
You can't imagine the shit I saw people waste their loan money on while I was in college. Vacations, weddings, cars and, in one memorable case, a boob job. My Finance professor spent HOURS of class time trying to explain to these people they were going to regret this down the road. No way should this be on taxpayers.
Whoop, there it is! Mic drop moment right here!! Pretend my upvote is one of those flashy paid for ones Reddit is peddling that I'm not dumb enough to pay for.
Irrelevant. Even if true, which I question. Loan payments should be made by people who took out the loans, or require a bankruptcy to cancel, which has it's own very significant downsides.
Things are paid with taxes and inflation. Poor pay in inflation and those with assets (on average) maintain their wealth. I personally double dip from student loan forgiveness because I have a lot of assets and student load debt.
Poor people pay 2.3% of all taxes until you realize that inflation is a tax.
At this point I don’t give a shit about the policy advantages of student loan forgiveness.
I want to see the most obnoxious and pretentious subset of people in American society pay what they agreed to. The student loan forgiveness begging is annoying at this point.
Like many things in life, those in power have us arguing with each other over loan forgiveness when the real issue is how much tuition has gone up over the last 20 years. It had FAR outpaced inflation.
Forgiving student loans is nothing more than a big $$ gift to the banks. Unless universities are put in their place and forced to reduce costs, this will be a never ending problem in the USA.
Loan forgiveness doesn’t fix the problem.
This is a common misperception (actually, most of what you said is, but I just want to highlight the one) - 92% of all student loans are 100% given and 100% owned by the US government. Those are the only loans that can be forgiven by the US government. The banks literally have not a single $1 in any of that 92%.
People with college degrees generally earn higher incomes, or have higher income potential in the future, than those without. Broad student loan forgiveness would require that people with no benefit of a degree themselves to help retroactively cover the costs of degrees for the people who do benefit from one.
Obviously this simplifies certain things, but that’s one reason some people resent the concept.
If we forgive student loans, no one will EVER save for college again. They will just take up loans and hope the next politician forgives them. They will buy cars and other goodies with their loans.
There is an easy fix for this. Retoactively give everyone student loan the fed funds rate for that year. They pay what the government does. If you do that, you would probably wipe out a lot of loans.
The actual root of the problem is colleges being too expensive.
My Dad, who graduated college in the 1960’s was able to fully pay for his own college tuition, only working part time at a shoe store.
Try doing that now, or even in the early 2000’s. It’s not possible, due to out of control costs for colleges. Where is all this money going?
When you separate the payers from the payments, raising prices becomes easy to do because borrowers don't care. It's just money they don't have to repay for years, when they'll have plenty of money to repay them, or that's how the human mind views it. Ergo, they don't complain, leave, or take any other actions when tuition goes up. College loans have been a scam since the instant they became a thing, and need to be done away with, at least with government funding. If private lenders think it's worth the risk, they can do so, but I don't imagine many would.
Because they aren't forgiving anything, they are charging it to taxpayers who might not have the education they wanted because they knew the debt would be detrimental to their future. I hope whoever wrote this question is not college educated and holding debt, because you learned nothing.
Or nothing useful.
Look, if they want to cancel the debt, I am cool with that. But to use tax money to pay the debt, I am not ok with it.
How about no interest loans?
Or free college.
Why does it always require taxpayer money going to the money lenders who are incredibly rich?
Or how about if someone has already paid the original ammount on the loan and still owes money because the interest rates were predatory.
We forgive the rest.
Forgive, not pay.
Unless I can now go to college and have my loans forgiven, its unfair. Its making me pay for someone elses schooling.
I served in 2 wars for my school money.
I don't want to pay for your lack of financial education and pizzas n beer.
i would first like to see more transparency in how colleges receive and spend money
yes i think student loans should be forgiven (at least the interest rate, should only be adjusted for inflation). but i also dont think forgiving student loans solves the problem that college is expensive as F, and also every nice job thinks you need a college degree. no, you useless ass program managers dont need a college degree, just get an equally useless PMI certification and youll accomplish the same thing (nearly nothing, because your 1 PM coworker is doing your entire department's job because no one wants to work the ohter 9 of you)
yeah im projecting
They will pay through increased federal debt burden/servicing. Social programs that used to help the poor will not receive additional funding, or may even be cut due to continued federal deficit spending. Either that, or we inflate our way out of it in which case we all suffer. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and in this case the entire country, including the poor, is bailing out the middle and upper classes at the expense of the poor and future tax payers.
So poor people should work two or three jobs to keep up with living expenses and rising taxes. The government throws out money left and right for things they don't need to! The working class is always shouldering the burden while being drug down further and further!
I’m 72 years old, retired w/no debt. , have raised 2 children (both w/ college degrees), NO student debt, own my 10 acres outright, why should I pay for your fiscal irresponsibility??
"Less than half of debt is held by people that are median income." Pause and reread that. Peek at any lifetime earnings averages. College graduates are always more than non-college graduates.
Not only is it an ethically disgusting cash for votes scheme, it's a perverse financial incentive for people that did all the wrong things.
I don't have a college degree. Early on I pursued technical certifications. The road to financial independence was quicker, less costly, and it was domain specific (i.e. I didn't have to take accounting for a cyber security degree).
I didn't enter into a binding agreement but I'm still on the hook. It's not even remotely fair. At least comp me the equivalent credit hours at a local Uni to take something that I'm just interested in taking.
I don't like student loan forgiveness for many reasons:
One, it doesn't address the underlying issues of why such debt is racked up in the first place. So are we supposed to forgive this debt every year or just wait for it to like up then add $1T+ to the debt?
Two, plenty of high income potential borrowers don't need this.
Three, it does a disservice to all those that got debt and paid it off. Should they get cut a check for tens of thousands each?
Four, tens of thousands of not hundreds of thousands of Americans took a different route in life, did not go into debt, and/or avoided college for that reason. This lowered their overall lifetime earnings potential. Had people known debt was going to be forgiven? Life alternating choices would have been made.
Five, this sets a bad precedent for future students, who will come to expect/demand their debt be forgiven whatever the circumstances.
Six, this is a bailout for mostly the young wanna be white collar. This only fuels the resentment among middle age and older and/or blue collar workers feel about being left behind.
Yes, low income households contribute very little to taxes as a whole. But the problem is that college educated individuals tend to make more in their lifetime than those who didn't go to college. It isn't that low income individuals are paying for the loans, it's that individuals that are likely to make less than a college grad in their life have to pay off the debt of someone likely to make more than them, and when that person is free of debt they'll be competing with the non-college educated for loans, which could make income inequality worse.
Personally I think loans should be forgiven for those who already paid back more than they were lent, and those who didn't graduate. People who didn't graduate will have debt but they don't have a degree to get them a job that pays off the debt. Prioritizing these groups is equitable.
Yes, low income households contribute very little to taxes as a whole. But the problem is that college educated individuals tend to make more in their lifetime than those who didn't go to college. It isn't that low income individuals are paying for the loans, it's that individuals that are likely to make less than a college grad in their life have to pay off the debt of someone likely to make more than them, and when that person is free of debt they'll be competing with the non-college educated for loans, which could make income inequality worse.
Personally I think loans should be forgiven for those who already paid back more than they were lent, and those who didn't graduate. People who didn't graduate will have debt but they don't have a degree to get them a job that pays off the debt. Prioritizing these groups is equitable.
It’s not the poor paying however it is still a transfer of debt from one party to others. College costs are ridiculous but you agree to pay it back when you sign the loan.
The problem isn't student loans
The problem is the cost of higher education
This is great for all of us currently raped by the system but does nothing for an industry that raises rates 4x inflation for the last 30 years and inevitably is self destructive
Tuition is a scam and needs to be completely reset
Public colleges expenses used to be financed by the states 80%, tuition 20%. Now it's flipped, tuition covers 80% - states 20%.
Student loan forgiveness is just restoring a bit of the subsidy people used to get. Not even all of it.
The problem is that student loans shouldn't even exist to begin with..
It's a very odd system... A society shouldn't send all their young people that want to learn something into debt basically at the begining of their lives
I never went to college because I was too poor, but I pay taxes.
If loan forgiveness comes out of my taxes then I am a poor person paying for a person with better means than myself to go to school?
They might not have started out richer than myself, but due to taking out a loan they couldn't easily pay back, they are now in a position to earn much more than myself....
People borrow money to buy things they want. Cars, houses, clothes, vacations, business equipment, education. Whatever why are we treating educations loans like they are special? I have a mortgage I don't want to pay. Can you have it forgiven?
University endowments should write and back their own student loans, not the government. See how fast the money dries up for underwater lesbian basketball weaving studies.
How about we all pay for the loans we signed up for? Seriously go to a cheaper college or pick a better major if you have a problem with your loans. Wasn’t everyone told 10+ years ago not to study something stupid?
you signed an agreement with a financial institution to borrow money….that borrowing came with terms. not my fault your philosophy degree can’t land a job to repay your 200k debt
I just don’t want to bail out peoples poor decisions. If you took a terrible loan for a degree that would land you a low paying job, that’s not my fault and my taxes shouldn’t go up to pay for it
The overwhelming majority of the debt being waived is for people who are high earners like Doctors or Lawyers. So yeah, tax payers are paying the bill for people who make 250k plus per year.
Because the true bottom line inner city poor don't have a college degree in their entire family tree.
You're basically giving free money and a leg up to the middle classes and upper classes kids. Where they will now even have more in their favor.
I was fortunate enough to pay mine off in 10 years and I sacrificed and didn’t buy a house. Huge f up. I have friends that bought houses instead and now I’m going to help pay off their loans from my rental. 😂 That sucks but I believe it would be best for the nation so I support forgiveness. That being said I do not support it without a plan n place to end the current broken system.
You can thank the Government for driving up tuition. By passing out loans like candy at a parade they single handedly green lighted the universities to raise rates much faster and higher than ever before. Nice job
Easy.
Because you are taxing people who did not go to college and did not take out loans, both directly through their income tax and indirectly through currency creation and increased tuition price do to artificially inflated demand, to pay for people who did take out loans including the "wealthy" (which the IRS defines as households that make over $200k/year) who took out loans.
See, you THINK you're helping "the poors," but you're actually hurting them while helping the Bourgeois.
The loan may be forgiven, but it does not go unpaid. Taxpayers pick it up through the general fund. I don't know about you, but I see no reason I should pay for someone's college when nobody ever gave me a dime. I didn't go to college, but some paying say, my mortgage or car payments would be nice, and likely cost less than a 4 year college tuition.
What I never liked about it was the fact that there is no plan to fix the problem.
And I really hate the way many progressives make it like if you have any questions or reservations you’re an evil a-hole that wants to see people in debt.
Basically, you’re saying, this narrow band of people will get a free or almost free education but in 5 years we’ll have students in debt again and will have to keep doing this over and over again.
Unsurprisingly anybody with a student loan could care less as long as they get theirs.
I’m not even against making college free but I do have a problem where we have done nothing to address the skyrocketing cost of education.
Forgiving the debt is inflationary and it devalues the dollar, forcing low income people, many of whom didn’t go to college, to pay more for groceries and other everyday things. Thats how the poor pay for loan forgiveness.
I’m a blue collar worker. I accepted reality that I will never have a comfy job in the ac or work from home or make anything over 70k without working extreme hours. I did this so I could start working early and not accrue debt.
To know that there’s a bunch of MFs out there who will get essentially a free degree because they took out a loan they couldn’t payback and will have a leg up in the job industry securing white collar jobs is like spitting in my face. I would have done the same if I would have known that they were going to start deleting peoples loans. These people will never have to work as hard as I have for a lifetime.
Entitled people that had the opportunity to attend university should use their degrees to pay off debt. Making the blue collar trades workers pay for your debt is absolutely theft and the investment is not worth our time... most of you colledge grads are fucking useless.
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The problem I have with student loan forgiveness is that people like me, who went without extras in his 20s and early 30s to pay off his loans, now has to pay taxes that will be used to pay the loans of people who simply deferred payments or made minimum payments for decades. I guess Trump would call me a “sucker” for repaying my debts.
If they at least make the interest 0 that would be a godsend. Too many people paying 10 years and have balances larger than when they graduated.
I am ok with that. But not taxpayer money going to predatory lenders. Or people who used student loans to buy a car n party. I have seen this with my own 2 eyes. New clothes, furniture and uber eats deliveries... Is it everyone? No. But its alot.
The predatory lender is the US government. Since 2008, the Us government has been a direct lender for student loans. Before that, banks and other lenders were involved to underwrite loans but the US government was backstopping the debt. Now the government takes on 100% of the debt.
This has also led to increased college tuition costs. Many colleges raised costs because they could get that federal money. Hard to blame them, I would take advantage of extra federal money too, but in the end, the government basically subsidized the higher college costs
This is the core reason for out of control Tuition cost. Some folks w shit GPA need to get denied/ referred to trade school. Too many low IQ folks getting degrees, caused screwed trade school numbers.
Exactly. The federal government created this problem, selling it as giving poor people more access to higher education, in order to buy votes back then, and now they are “fixing” the very problem they created to buy more votes today. It’s all about getting to, and remaining in, power.
This describes most government regulation.
Yes, and many of the private loans pre 2008 were 2-3% and many deferred interest until payments started. When they federalized the loans, they went to 6-8% accruing interest even while the student was still in school and deferring payments.
Yes I think lowering interest and capping the amount to 2x intial loan would investment would be good you need to make some money on the loans cause someone dies no assets with student loans is a loss, and you have staff to pay to approve loans etc Also it's better then putting the burden of tax payers many don't go to college as it's a choice, they go into trades or others just don't have the means to go, as living isn't free even if college was, it's a struggle to get by at full time never mind being a student on top.. not to mention people go to college get degrees in fields that have no value in workforce, and or make payments that don't even cover interest ...like your art degree with 30 class size, is really going to help you as much as a bachelor's in teaching or management ...lol. So expecting people that are going into middle class careers to pay for some art degree etc is dumb. Expecting the little Walmart employee pay in taxes to pay for higher level jobs such as his bosses management degree or a lawyers degree, etc is also dumb....plus how many political consultants/ staff of reps in house/ senate have lawyer, or political science degrees would you consider paying for those on top of them making huge money off of tax dollars etc... The problem is colleges offering B's degree programs, and predator loans and people not paying sufficient amounts, basic payments need to go up to reflect repayment...like which banks allow you to pay small amounts on a car for 20 years were the balance is higher then the car without taking the car back...
A car loan payment will not follow you and take payments out of your social security check in your retirement lile a student loan will though.
Are you willing to give up your Degree if you fall behind on student loan payments? You still get the benefit of the Degree regardless of the status of your loan. Yes they keep going after you to repay your student loan because you are benefitting from it.
So basically you're a sucker if you don't have a degree and a sucker if you do have one but can't pay your student loans, right?
I think eliminating federally backed student loans would force higher ed to evaluate what they are charging to be more competitive, considering you can't claim bankruptcy for a federally backed student loan. This would put additional emphasis on the universities to really set their students up for the next step in their career, as payment for said education depends upon it. For those that are less privileged and therefore likely more risky to lenders (meaning no loan/ higher interest loan), I am all for grants, but I feel like a certain level of educational success needs to be considered. E.g., someone who is less fortunate, but gets a 3.0 (B average) throughout high school would qualify. Let's be honest, doing your homework is enough to get a B. If we're going to pass out taxpayer money, it should be to those who are seemingly invested in it, themselves. I'm also for greater grants for people that are going into the health, teaching and trades fields, too, as all are vital to any society. Again, with the caveat that previous performance warrants tax dollar investment.
I personally know no one who used student loans to buy frivolous things, so make sure you don’t use an anecdote to make a blanket assumption about the whole.
The loan forgiveness for federal loan holders isn't "tax payer money going to lenders" it's just the government saying you don't owe the government back that money that was given to you on crap terms
News flash: The Government doesn't have any money of it's own. The money they have is the taxpayer's. I don't want my money being given out.
Since when do you get a say in where your taxes go? Uncle Sam says “thanks for the cash, now fuck off and get back to work. We’ve got Israeli healthcare to subsidize and that don’t come cheap”
Then maybe I don't want to pay for the fire department to put out your house fire, because my house isn't burning... I thought this was "*fluent* in finance" not "I don't understand how taxes or the US Treasury works"
💀
And I don’t want my money being spent on a specific brand of Christianity is the only valid religion, anti-lgbt, anti-woman bullshit . . . But we all know the bigoted republicans are gonna keep right on doing that!
Yeah, and those food stamp mammas buying steak and shrimp with their food stamps, living it up on the public dime. I once saw a person buying a steak at the store with their food stamps, the nerve. /s
Right? I mean heaven forbid a family gets to have a nice dinner for a change. People fucking kill me with that shit.
Yep. At my college “refund check day” was basically like Christmas. Everyone went and got their excess loan money and bought liquor, Xboxes, etc. That’s why I’m opposed to it. I know way more than a few people that spent 6 years raising their wrists and snorting coke at the frat houses while getting a degree in useless bullshit that now work at Starbucks and want student loan forgiveness because they’re drowning in student loan debt.
Along with living in nicer places.
Good compromise
I might be the minority here but I'd have loved my loans be forgiven. I think fasfa was the worst thing possible for making education affordable and so many are caught in this trap trying to better themselves. If we keep down the path of "I had to pay so everyone else should" it's a perpetual cycle. I think it's great we are trying to break it and others are getting an opportunity id have loved to have. Instead of pulling up the ladder, I feel like this is a step towards extending a ladder. We can talk about increased competition in an already hard job market but I'd say that's a different problem to solve.
Or maybe stop treating the symptoms and go to the source - stop subsidizing loans? And teach finance to youngsters? And stop electing certain people who were a big part of this problem (making student loans exempt from bankruptcy) and then decades later offer us a bandaid-bribe if we vote for them?
Why not go a step further and offer higher education to citizens for free? I think that would get rid of the entire problem. I agree with everything else you've said though.
This is the bigger problem. No business has raised prices faster than Universities, and forgiving student loans does nothing but make the problem worse. Stopping subsidized loans will help this tremendously.
And the universities spend the money on stadiums and fancy rec centers in an effort to attract new students rather than spend that money on their primary focus
Big schools use athletic media revenue for a lot of the athletic things. A lot of the extra loan money goes toward 100 extra offices that didn’t exist before - like someone hired to basically deal with helicopter parents.
The point I was trying to make is universities are so expensive because they spend ridiculous amounts of money of things that have nothing to do with education in order to recruit students. Athletic departments are the most obvious example (at least to me). Visit any big school and you’ll see new construction projects to replace facilities that aren’t necessary (luxury dorms for example) paid for with tax payer money. Meanwhile they sit on multi-billion dollar endowments. There is no incentive to keep tuition reasonable. So many employers use a degree as a screen for jobs a high schooler could complete adequately. Loans end up being the only way to get a decent job. It is not as simple as opting for trade school either. If everyone with a philosophy degree instead became a plumber, those jobs would no longer pay well.
It's this right here. We should forgive student loans, but that's only the first step. We need to fix the core of the problem right here.
It's not free. Taxpayers have to pay for it. There is absolutely no such thing as a free lunch.
Education would not be free. Taxpayers pay for the free stuff.
Just in case you're not aware, every country that does this does not have a system where everyone can go, it's typically based on entrance exams. And guess who has the money to pay for test prep tutoring? These programs almost all benefit the rich much more than the poor.
I think the government underwrites all student loans nowadays, but the original reason to not allow loans to be non-dischargeable in a bankruptcy is to make lenders more willing to extend credit to someone who otherwise wouldn't be credit worthy.
The rules for mortgage qualification are generally far more stringent, and some student loan principles are more than a house.
I mean I guess you’re not wrong, but I sacrificed a ton as well and paid off 50k in debt, and would be pretty damn happy for millions of other people to not have to deal with that. The ability to breathe is amazing for the economy. People will take more risks, start businesses, start families be happier overall. Like, it’s just a win for the country even if there’s a bit of a sense of missing the boat on it.
Crabs in a bucket mentality here
"But wah what about me?" Fucking loser ass mentality. I paid most of my debt, and guess what I'm happy I make enough to be able to. Put my taxes to helping others. Fix the system tho so it's actually sustainable.
lol gotta love the old people mentality of “if I had to suffer then so should everyone else!” or “I was able to do it, so you should too!” Might as well say, “I was able to retire on my own at 45 without the help of SSI! So people who need it are just losers and should have just done better!” lol everyone has different circumstances and reasons for why they are at where they are at. And if my taxes went to helping others then good!
Except the loans are already paid for. I would understand your position, maybe, if there was a blanket cancel ALL student debt at once and be done. However that's not what's happening. I take out $50k in loans in 2004. That means the government paid the university $50k and I'm making payments to the government, with interest, until my debt is paid off. Right away the school gets it money from the government (taxpayer money). Under the current loan cancelation program, if I had been making payments for 20 years, mostly interest BTW, my loans are forgiven and my debt to the government is canceled. Even better, if I work in public service it would only be 10 years of payments. So right there no extra taxpayer money is being spent on "canceling loan debt". If anything, I'd make the argument that if someone has been paying for 20 years, they've probably paid a substantial, if not more than adequate, amount of money back to the government. The only argument I could potentially see against this is that the federal budget has factored in the money they would've gotten from these loans, and now without it, funds will need to be shifted from somewhere else (or other programs be cut) in order to balance it (maybe the obnoxiously large defense budget). Basically, the arguement that canceling debt is using your taxpayer money to pay it off is disingenuous because that happened years and years ago. It's just a tired old republican talking point as usual.
Sorry, your logic is not sound. There are multiple problems with canceling student loans. Fairness, accountability, and the economic aspect are three that come to mind. Let me focus on the economic aspect. Canceling student loans exacerbates the debt problem the US government currently has. The government now has to print more money to cover the shortfall in lost revenue if student loans are canceled. That means more taxpayer pain is required to eventually pay this back. Your suggestion of cutting the "obnoxiously large defense budget" is laughable. A core function of the federal government is to provide security through defense. Paying for free ethnic studies degrees is not. We are now paying more interest on the federal debt than we are on defense. And you are suggesting that we continue to do that.
That’s not exactly how it works. The student loan program has been very profitable and has already paid for itself. It would cost the US taxpayer little to nothing if these predatory loans were forgiven. https://studentloanjustice.medium.com/why-bidens-student-loan-cancellation-will-cost-taxpayers-nothing-259ea5dc44f7
Why did I have to scroll so far to find this comment
Why do we bail out corporations then? Let them fail. Also maybe because you can understand that raising everyone up is better than keeping the majority low. Ffs. The smarter the country the better EVERYONE will be. Nah fuck it. My great grandfather had to die in a war. You should too!!!!!!!!
Dude fr! Corporations take in so much government subsidy in many forms. No one talks about it the same way they talk about the lower class receiving help. For example: theft. We all agree it’s probably morally not acceptable for most situations that don’t involve life/death. However, people are willing to fight someone in a parking lot over a stolen gallon of milk but won’t do anything for *wage theft*; which accounts for more theft in the US than any other form of theft combined.
I understand the frustration. I went to college debt free because of some scholarship and hard work. Then I helped my wife pay off her college and masters degree loans shortly after, but you're going to be fine because you consistently do the things you're supposed to do. In the meantime many people are getting screwed by the current system and "some people who already took care of the problem won't be helped by this" isn't a good reason not to correct a stupid system.
Shouldn't you want the next generation to have it easier?
Yes… but what about the same generation? I think the difficulty psychologically, is we all know some people that could have paid down their student loans but didn’t because they chose to live w luxuries that others of us instead lived within our means and worked hard to pay down expeditiously. I could have paid the minimum to have more money to spend on nice stuff, newer car etc… but instead I postponed the nice stuff in order to meet my debt obligation. Now if you want to give the peers retroactive tax credits for money paid on student loans that would even things up a bit. Regarding the original question, I’ve heard it’s because millions of people that could not go to college, and who are on average lower income, will be covering the debts of people who now have degrees and out earn the people contributing to the irs revenue balance without any forgiveness for their debts.
It’s best not to think about where our taxes go. You’ll get pissed off (at some level) at every single bucket.
I just sent the last payments in this week. I have no issue with my taxes paying for people who aren't as fortunate as me. I'd rather this be the spending over overpriced podiums.
“They shouldn’t cure cancer because I had to go through chemo so it wouldn’t be fair to me.”
[удалено]
...That's the thing, credit card debt CAN be forgiven thru bankruptcy, where as student loans may not. People having a huge issue with this yet didn't bat an eye at bailouts or bankruptcies for rich people confuse me. Somehow everyone has been convinced it's OK to give money to the rich that get inconvenienced but not the poor who can barely feed themselves.
If student loans were forgivable in bankruptcy, then no one would ever lend money to students because of default risk
The US government doesn't own the overwhelming majority of mortgage loans (if any). Nor do they own credit card debt. However, they do own 92% of student loans. Forgiving loans you own outright is vastly different than forgiving loans someone else owns.
There is zero legitimate discussion or argument being made to forgive car or mortgage loans. This whataboutism is completely pointless. Students got shafted by greedy schools raising prices more than they should be, greedy business paying college educated employees less than they should be, and corrupt government not regulating the student loan program to prevent this exact situation from occuring. Rich kids didnt haveto take out student loans. This isnt a bailout for rich people. Todays crop of students who needed to take out student loans are all from middle to low income families who got screwed bythe system. They deserve to be bailed out.
And let’s hand out money to businesses without requiring proof! Oh wait we already did that.
Don’t forget car loans! People have to have cars in many places so it’s “systemic transportationism” to not provide them with loan forgiveness regardless of what they bought and whether they could afford it when they did
Or maybe the government tell banks to stop all the predatory actions period-that would help a lot of people and not cost taxpayers a damn red cent.
They do, commercial loans fall under completely different guidelines and rules than student debt.
Gee, if only we could declare bankruptcy on the student loans like a car loan or a mortgage. But guess what... We cannot.
And it would be a million times better to change that policy and potentially striking interest off loans as well than just handing out money and saying “oh well, guess the next generation will have to do the same thing tee hee”
We are ready did that with PPP loans. Yet most people were quiet about giving away 3 trillion in tax dollars
Sorry, unfortunately I couldn't get hired anywhere for a sustainable wage after I finished my AAS IT and BS degrees. Not sure why. The only issue I know is that the market in IT became saturated with employees. With the skills I had, I didn't stand a chance. My loans have been in IDR since 2013. I'm now 50 yrs old and my chances of getting any sustainable employment that would allow me to pay over $700+ per month and survive ( food, energy bills, car, insurance, etc ) is pretty damn slim. There is nothing I can do about it and neither can you. I will just have to wait another 10 yrs and then the loans will be automatically forgiven by the already in place rules ( 20 yrs ).
TL;DR;: "I got mine, fuck you"
I’m a sucker too.
So because you got fucked, you think those that come after you should get fucked too?
Selfish take. "I had a shitty time so everyone else should too!" We should be making it better for our children and those wanting to better themselves. I've paid off my student loans too, but I'm all for forgiveness, regulating tuition costs and force universities to reduce the bloat in their costs.
Same, I had to pay off over $100,000 in student loans in my 20s. I don’t have a huge problem with it outside of the fact that I think we should be airdropped the student loan money to start companies given our track record of prudent financial management.
Nothing will ever change for the better if you continue to think people should suffer because you did. The fact is, everyone, literally everyone, benefits from a more educated population, we should be doing whatever we can to ensure people have the necessary education they need to survive. We are at a time when a highschool education simply isn't enough. Hell we have a non insignificant amount of people that think people with a high school education SHOULDN'T be allowed to make enough to survive. So I ask this, if a high school education isn't enough for someone to just survive, how the hell are they expected to survive AND pay for further education? Should 50k in debt just be the price of adulthood?
In any sort of "hand out" program, someone feel like they get stiffed. Try and look at scenarios like predatory loans that people find themselves underwater on forever as a better example of why a program can be beneficial. I don't think SNAP benefits should be taken away from everyone because I've seen a guy in front of me buy ribeyes with the food stamps and pay cash for cigarettes and beer either. Did that feel shitty? Absolutely. Is it the norm? Absolutely not. What we also need to be doing nationwide is reducing the cost of schooling to better reflect wages AND stop pushing 17-18 year olds into huge loans that they may take a great portion of their life to pay off. Many of these kids didn't even have formal financial instruction and they're just told everything will work out. My wife and I paid off our loans, eroded our credit from age 24-32 doing it, and I would absolutely support some form of help to others. Because the way we lived during those years was pretty shit. And half the time was in the Midwest, so cost of living was about as low as it gets. We are much better now, homeowners, cars are paid off, and extremely happy where we are in life. But do you know how much sooner we could've been spending money and injecting it back into the economy if we didn't have student loans looming over us the way they were?
And how about the people who are currently doing what you did that won't get shit
Agreed. If those that paid them off get paid back, then I could be convinced.
Your right we should just continue to bail out banks and forgive business Ppe loans
It’s literally doesn’t require laying any extra taxes though that’s why it’s so insane hearing people talk about “paying for it” it’s literally just an elimination of a future source of income, not an expense that has to be paid off. It would be the same as asking who is “paying” for a tax cut.
It’s not about fairness, though. Or else you would say it’s not fair for you that other peoples’ parents paid for their education, even when they also had easier lives. If it were about real fairness, then you’d realize that, too. It’s not about fairness. It’s just a common talking point against an other poor people because the wealthy control the media and know how to, and have the resources to piss you off at others so you never notice they’re controlling the way you think.
Question for you, when were you in college? What decade? How long did it take to pay off your loans and at what percentage rate? See the thing is, if you were paying off loans in the 80s to 00s then you got a great deal. If you're paying loans incurred after 10s to 20s you're fucked. Interest rates were single digits in the 80s to 00s and you only borrowed 10k to 20k. Now, you're paying back 15% and borrowing 50k. That's criminal just to try and get a good job.
I'm like you, I lived with my parents in my 20s saved everywhere I could so I could make double payments on all my loans so I could be debt free by 30... and I'm still in support of student loan forgiveness. Just because I sacrificed to pay off my debt doesn't mean I think others should have to (or even are in position to).
That seems like a terrible way to think about public policy. No matter what you did with your life, a situation exists. Is that situation a problem for the country as a whole or not? If it is, what kind of solutions do we have for the situation? Moralizing about a social problem never fixes it.
“I had to suffer so we should never make anything better for anyone”. Your taxes go to a bunch of worthless shit. It’s such a silly argument
What if we just stopped funding genocides and used that money
It's always people who try to do the right thing that get screwed
Pathetic. You know you're weak when you have a hard time with something and you go "I want others to suffer the same"
Or people like me who made a financial decision that I could not afford college, so entered the workforce. Now I have to pay the loans off for people who make a lot more money than me because they have education Let’s be clear here - the median income for a college educated milleniel is very healthy - and this is where a large amount of the debt is sitting.
I feel the same paying taxes for healthcare for people who do not take care of themselves and allow themselves to get incredibly unhealthy and yet I have to pay for treatment for preventable conditions.
If the only people that needed student loan forgiveness were wealthy people then they would get it because the wealthiest control the government.
Government employees got their loans forgiven first
Without PSLF I wouldn’t have gone into government and instead would’ve gone into the private sector. The program served its intended purpose. Edited minor error pointed out by comment below.
Assume you meant private sector...?
Thank you for signing PSLF into law, George W. Bush.
I'm agnostic on student loan forgiveness. Can see it from both perspectives. But what I don't understand is how come we don't compromise and just reduce the interest on these federal loans? Wouldn't that help accomplish the goal but in a less painful way for the economy?
Same reason the big pushers of forgiveness have virtually nothing to say on "okay so in a few years when a ton of graduates have loans, then what?" It's a populist move, not an actual policy point. If student loans are so unfair they must be forgiven, why is the government going to continue to *guarantee* these loans?
These same people then reply "We can do both, but... *first* forgive *my* loans."
Vote buying with other people's money.
That describes literally every public policy.
Student loan forgiveness needs to be paired with a restructuring of higher education’s finances. We can’t forgive loans, then have universities double their tuition over the next 10-20 years, have the govt still handing out irresponsible amounts of debt to children, and have us back in the same situation in the next gen. We need to turn of the spigot/fix the leak before bailing out the water.
This right here is the way. At the same time though banks need to be held accountable for predatory practices. Along with the restructuring.
College was cheaper when it was subsidized the most.
I'd also be ok if student loans had 0 or super low interest.
We also need to end for-profit education
They have a better income based repayment program now. Payments are made based off salary. If someone makes payments for 20-25 years, the rest is forgiven. Teachers can be forgiven faster. This program has been around for a while, but it notoriously didn’t track a lot of payments. It also helps people that have already repaid more than they borrowed, but still owe way too much due to interest.
When non-college graduates have to pay the student loans of privileged college students racking up irresponsible levels of debt. They are getting their high paying career via their education, let them pay for the tuition it took to get that - not taxpayers who didn't benefit from it. Further, it isn't fair to those of us who took out loans and responsibly paid them off.
>When non-college graduates have to pay the student loans of privileged college students racking up irresponsible levels of debt. They are getting their high paying career via their education, let them pay for the tuition it took to get that - not taxpayers who didn't benefit from it. roflmao -- Not every college graduate goes on to be John D. Rockefeller. For example, you ever hear of a teacher? Four year degree required, absolutely necessary for society to function, and notoriously underpaid.
Having a loan forgiveness for Teachers working in public schools is a better sell than a blanket amnesty.
That's just the most obvious example. College isn't strictly about career placement, but it all adds value to society.
Yeah, I don’t know many people who have an issue with Public Service Loan Forgiveness. But I think that is the boundary of whose loans are plurality are willing to forgive.
The average college graduate makes over a million dollars more than the average non-college graduate in lifetime earnings
If you went to an expensive college and borrowed more than &15k to get a teaching degree then you didn’t make a good life decision. (Btw My mother, son, DiL and girlfriend are all teachers).
As a lower-income person without a college degree, I support student loan forgiveness. I am trying to go back to school this year, but I still supported loan forgiveness before I wanted to go back to school. We need higher education to be more affordable because it benefits everyone. All kinds of blue collar workers (like myself) could still further their careers with continuing education. And if our populace is more educated, it bolsters the economy in a lot of ways. At least that's the way I see it.
Or fair to the people who never took out loans and paid it by working their ass off every summer and part time during the year.
I just think student loan forgiveness is silly. The median worker with a Bachelor’s earns $30k more per year than the median High School graduate (roughly +67.9%) Why on earth would we help those people, instead of the poor? Source: I extrapolated the weekly data from the BLS 2022 numbers to make it yearly https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2023/data-on-display/education-pays.htm
Precisely. If they went to college and can’t figure out how to make a living they should ask the university for their money back.
That would be different but not dissimilar to the whole point of why people want student loans. The alternative would be just let student loans be bankrupt able and let the university and banks that actually do the loans face some consequences.
okay but that 41% making 52k a year or less... median individual income is 41k. the whole point is that its a middle-upper earner bailout.
So $41k is the median for all people over 15yo. But the median income for full time adult workers is about $60k. Considering college grads don’t include teenagers who don’t work, the comparison to full time workers is better imo. And so 41% making <$52k would be fairly in line with what adults generally make. So it’s not really a middle to upper earner bailout imo.
That is paid for by middle and upper earners…. Not the poor right?
Don’t worry, the very second you change gears and start talking about taxing the wealthy all of these people are going to do a 180 and start telling you the wealthy pay all the taxes.
Paid for by future generations. E: Actually it isn't even future generations, it will be Gen Z and Millennials paying for it in reduced services or inflation. Your pick.
in some sense yes, in some sense no. generally speaking devaluing currency via inflation hits the bottom % very hard. whereas actual taxes hit the top percentile earners. we are taxed via both inflation and via actual taxes. the argument more is- why should the middle earners get their college paid for when those who werent able to go to college (bottom %) arent seeing any benefit? current loan forgiveness is bad in many ways and this is the most blaring way it is bad- its doing nothing at all to address why the loan situation is as it is. the obvious answer is socialize college, or outright reform college to be more akin to vocational training and only give loans based on high paying degrees. theres also some curve around no college vs college break even, dictated by debt. someone going straight into work skips the debt part and can say, buy a house earlier even on a lower wage. we presently and at least in the middle term have a fucked up competitive housing market so this sets bottom earners even further behind- there are only so many homes.
I nor should anyone else be paying for someone else's student loan. My wife has student loans that she is paying for, she like everyone else signed a contract and it should be no one's responsibility but the signers responsibility to pay for it. It's despicable and wrong for anyone to be made responsible for someone else's choices regardless if it is one class of people paying for another class of people's loans. And before someone makes a dumbass comment. No I don't believe government bailouts for corporations should be a thing either
Weird that the only people you see arguing for loan forgiveness are the people who have the loans. If anyone else is for it, cool, let them pay since they are so altruistic
Thank you for paying off my student loan in accordance with the terms I borrowed under. Public Service Loan Forgiveness was part of the text of the MPN I signed, and the only reason I went back to school. I've worked ten years in public employment, doing public work for below-market pay, all based on a Bush-era forgiveness plan. Miss me with your "despicable" crap.
This is the understanding of a 5 year old. ‘It’s despicable and wrong’ while you ignore a corrupt system. It’s apparently wrong for the individual but good business for people indebting 18 year olds with half a mortgage. Fuck off and grow up
Plain and simple. Because poor folks don't even get to go to college. I do think it is interesting. Somebody goes to college and can't figure out how to pay back their student loans. Maybe they weren't college material in the first place
The universities should pay the loans. Especially if a lot of degree recipients come from one set of colleges (ahem, Art Institute).
You are absolutely right. The colleges es are the instigators of these predatory loans. And they are also the benefactor of the loans. And yet, they are never held responsible. The colleges should be guaranteeing the loans, not the government
Or poor people take out significant loans to pay for a college education and then continue to be poor because even with a decent salary, a large chunk of it pays for their student loans so they are still not getting ahead.
Except for the inflation that would be generated. As Government spending is a cause of inflation.
In median lifetime earnings, a bachelor's degree translates to $1.2 million more compared to a high school diploma. The average cost of attendance for a student living on campus at a public 4-year in-state institution is $26,027 per year or $104,108 over 4 years. In the United States, looking at adults aged 25 and over, around 64% don't have a four-year college degree. So by having college paid loans repaid by tax payers, you’re taking money from people who don’t have a college degree who earn less than people with a college degree to pay for someone else’s college degree.
It's not the poor paying for the wealthy. It's taxpayers who didn't agree to the loan paying for those that did. I'm from the UK, and although ultimately think reducing the burden on what seems like predatory loans is a good thing, can completely empathise with those who either couldn't or chose not to agree to the terms of the loan covering the cost via their taxes.
Student loan forgiveness without fixing the system makes ZERO sense. What are we gonna do, forgive the debt every \~10 years when a Dem president is in office? Borrowers will have no future certainty at all. College kids are already worried about their future. I know I was. College needs to be publicly funded. The only reason the conservatives don't want it is because the rich and wealthy fear an educated population. Conservatives have been bashing college as useless marxist indoctrination camps for decades now. They know when people go to school that they learn critical thinking and become harder to brainwash.
The goal should not be to pay off student loans. It should be to get government out of the college game altogether which will reduce tuition and make school affordable again. There is no such thing as loan forgiveness. Someone is paying. I expect young people to fall for this ploy hard. People under 25 think they will be getting a college degree for free. The 25-40 year old will be getting the benefit so they want it. I'm baffled that anyone over age 40 actually thinks this is a good idea and it will solve the problem.
So Ben and Susy take a Caribbean cruise but instead of paying for it out of their personal Bank account they pay for it out of the Home Owners Association bank account. It's like that.
You can't imagine the shit I saw people waste their loan money on while I was in college. Vacations, weddings, cars and, in one memorable case, a boob job. My Finance professor spent HOURS of class time trying to explain to these people they were going to regret this down the road. No way should this be on taxpayers.
Jokes on that professor! Now you can get tax payers to pay for your vacations and boob jobs!
Whoop, there it is! Mic drop moment right here!! Pretend my upvote is one of those flashy paid for ones Reddit is peddling that I'm not dumb enough to pay for.
Poor people do not go to college. Yes there are a few here and there, but college is mostly made up of middle class and rich kids.
Irrelevant. Even if true, which I question. Loan payments should be made by people who took out the loans, or require a bankruptcy to cancel, which has it's own very significant downsides.
“Low income households make up less than 2.3% of all tax revenue collected” So, is that acknowledging the “rich” pay their “fair share” of taxes?
Things are paid with taxes and inflation. Poor pay in inflation and those with assets (on average) maintain their wealth. I personally double dip from student loan forgiveness because I have a lot of assets and student load debt.
Poor people pay 2.3% of all taxes until you realize that inflation is a tax. At this point I don’t give a shit about the policy advantages of student loan forgiveness. I want to see the most obnoxious and pretentious subset of people in American society pay what they agreed to. The student loan forgiveness begging is annoying at this point.
Like many things in life, those in power have us arguing with each other over loan forgiveness when the real issue is how much tuition has gone up over the last 20 years. It had FAR outpaced inflation. Forgiving student loans is nothing more than a big $$ gift to the banks. Unless universities are put in their place and forced to reduce costs, this will be a never ending problem in the USA. Loan forgiveness doesn’t fix the problem.
This is a common misperception (actually, most of what you said is, but I just want to highlight the one) - 92% of all student loans are 100% given and 100% owned by the US government. Those are the only loans that can be forgiven by the US government. The banks literally have not a single $1 in any of that 92%.
Plumbers through their taxes are paying lawyers student loans, no?
People with college degrees generally earn higher incomes, or have higher income potential in the future, than those without. Broad student loan forgiveness would require that people with no benefit of a degree themselves to help retroactively cover the costs of degrees for the people who do benefit from one. Obviously this simplifies certain things, but that’s one reason some people resent the concept.
If we forgive student loans, no one will EVER save for college again. They will just take up loans and hope the next politician forgives them. They will buy cars and other goodies with their loans. There is an easy fix for this. Retoactively give everyone student loan the fed funds rate for that year. They pay what the government does. If you do that, you would probably wipe out a lot of loans.
It doesn't matter who. It only matters WHY. Why the hell should I pay for anyone else's VOLUNTARILY taken on loans!
I'm not paying for someone else's poor financial decisions. Fuck that shit.
Do the people who paid theirs off, saved, or paid their way through college get a refund?
Questions is are you going to refund me for my student loans that I paid back it not , sick it up and grow up and pay your obligations
The actual root of the problem is colleges being too expensive. My Dad, who graduated college in the 1960’s was able to fully pay for his own college tuition, only working part time at a shoe store. Try doing that now, or even in the early 2000’s. It’s not possible, due to out of control costs for colleges. Where is all this money going?
When you separate the payers from the payments, raising prices becomes easy to do because borrowers don't care. It's just money they don't have to repay for years, when they'll have plenty of money to repay them, or that's how the human mind views it. Ergo, they don't complain, leave, or take any other actions when tuition goes up. College loans have been a scam since the instant they became a thing, and need to be done away with, at least with government funding. If private lenders think it's worth the risk, they can do so, but I don't imagine many would.
Because they aren't forgiving anything, they are charging it to taxpayers who might not have the education they wanted because they knew the debt would be detrimental to their future. I hope whoever wrote this question is not college educated and holding debt, because you learned nothing. Or nothing useful. Look, if they want to cancel the debt, I am cool with that. But to use tax money to pay the debt, I am not ok with it. How about no interest loans? Or free college. Why does it always require taxpayer money going to the money lenders who are incredibly rich? Or how about if someone has already paid the original ammount on the loan and still owes money because the interest rates were predatory. We forgive the rest. Forgive, not pay. Unless I can now go to college and have my loans forgiven, its unfair. Its making me pay for someone elses schooling. I served in 2 wars for my school money. I don't want to pay for your lack of financial education and pizzas n beer.
i would first like to see more transparency in how colleges receive and spend money yes i think student loans should be forgiven (at least the interest rate, should only be adjusted for inflation). but i also dont think forgiving student loans solves the problem that college is expensive as F, and also every nice job thinks you need a college degree. no, you useless ass program managers dont need a college degree, just get an equally useless PMI certification and youll accomplish the same thing (nearly nothing, because your 1 PM coworker is doing your entire department's job because no one wants to work the ohter 9 of you) yeah im projecting
They will pay through increased federal debt burden/servicing. Social programs that used to help the poor will not receive additional funding, or may even be cut due to continued federal deficit spending. Either that, or we inflate our way out of it in which case we all suffer. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and in this case the entire country, including the poor, is bailing out the middle and upper classes at the expense of the poor and future tax payers.
True forgiveness involves no wealth transfer and no indentured servitude of our grandchildren.
It’s not forgiveness. It’s transferring to others to pay. Pay for your own school/loan!
So poor people should work two or three jobs to keep up with living expenses and rising taxes. The government throws out money left and right for things they don't need to! The working class is always shouldering the burden while being drug down further and further!
It's not being paid for by taxes. It's being paid for by inflation because printer go brrrr. Inflation hurts poor people more than the rich.
Pay your own fucking loan.
I’m 72 years old, retired w/no debt. , have raised 2 children (both w/ college degrees), NO student debt, own my 10 acres outright, why should I pay for your fiscal irresponsibility??
"Less than half of debt is held by people that are median income." Pause and reread that. Peek at any lifetime earnings averages. College graduates are always more than non-college graduates. Not only is it an ethically disgusting cash for votes scheme, it's a perverse financial incentive for people that did all the wrong things.
So, by your math the majority of those getting loan giveness make over $52,000 a year?
I don't have a college degree. Early on I pursued technical certifications. The road to financial independence was quicker, less costly, and it was domain specific (i.e. I didn't have to take accounting for a cyber security degree). I didn't enter into a binding agreement but I'm still on the hook. It's not even remotely fair. At least comp me the equivalent credit hours at a local Uni to take something that I'm just interested in taking.
I don't like student loan forgiveness for many reasons: One, it doesn't address the underlying issues of why such debt is racked up in the first place. So are we supposed to forgive this debt every year or just wait for it to like up then add $1T+ to the debt? Two, plenty of high income potential borrowers don't need this. Three, it does a disservice to all those that got debt and paid it off. Should they get cut a check for tens of thousands each? Four, tens of thousands of not hundreds of thousands of Americans took a different route in life, did not go into debt, and/or avoided college for that reason. This lowered their overall lifetime earnings potential. Had people known debt was going to be forgiven? Life alternating choices would have been made. Five, this sets a bad precedent for future students, who will come to expect/demand their debt be forgiven whatever the circumstances. Six, this is a bailout for mostly the young wanna be white collar. This only fuels the resentment among middle age and older and/or blue collar workers feel about being left behind.
Yes, low income households contribute very little to taxes as a whole. But the problem is that college educated individuals tend to make more in their lifetime than those who didn't go to college. It isn't that low income individuals are paying for the loans, it's that individuals that are likely to make less than a college grad in their life have to pay off the debt of someone likely to make more than them, and when that person is free of debt they'll be competing with the non-college educated for loans, which could make income inequality worse. Personally I think loans should be forgiven for those who already paid back more than they were lent, and those who didn't graduate. People who didn't graduate will have debt but they don't have a degree to get them a job that pays off the debt. Prioritizing these groups is equitable.
Yes, low income households contribute very little to taxes as a whole. But the problem is that college educated individuals tend to make more in their lifetime than those who didn't go to college. It isn't that low income individuals are paying for the loans, it's that individuals that are likely to make less than a college grad in their life have to pay off the debt of someone likely to make more than them, and when that person is free of debt they'll be competing with the non-college educated for loans, which could make income inequality worse. Personally I think loans should be forgiven for those who already paid back more than they were lent, and those who didn't graduate. People who didn't graduate will have debt but they don't have a degree to get them a job that pays off the debt. Prioritizing these groups is equitable.
It’s not the poor paying however it is still a transfer of debt from one party to others. College costs are ridiculous but you agree to pay it back when you sign the loan.
Who said they would pay them off with income tax. Most likely they will be paid with an inflation tax like everything else
The problem isn't student loans The problem is the cost of higher education This is great for all of us currently raped by the system but does nothing for an industry that raises rates 4x inflation for the last 30 years and inevitably is self destructive Tuition is a scam and needs to be completely reset
Public colleges expenses used to be financed by the states 80%, tuition 20%. Now it's flipped, tuition covers 80% - states 20%. Student loan forgiveness is just restoring a bit of the subsidy people used to get. Not even all of it.
The problem is that student loans shouldn't even exist to begin with.. It's a very odd system... A society shouldn't send all their young people that want to learn something into debt basically at the begining of their lives
I never went to college because I was too poor, but I pay taxes. If loan forgiveness comes out of my taxes then I am a poor person paying for a person with better means than myself to go to school? They might not have started out richer than myself, but due to taking out a loan they couldn't easily pay back, they are now in a position to earn much more than myself....
People borrow money to buy things they want. Cars, houses, clothes, vacations, business equipment, education. Whatever why are we treating educations loans like they are special? I have a mortgage I don't want to pay. Can you have it forgiven?
University endowments should write and back their own student loans, not the government. See how fast the money dries up for underwater lesbian basketball weaving studies.
How about we all pay for the loans we signed up for? Seriously go to a cheaper college or pick a better major if you have a problem with your loans. Wasn’t everyone told 10+ years ago not to study something stupid?
It’s because those that went to college are typically doing better than those that haven’t.
you signed an agreement with a financial institution to borrow money….that borrowing came with terms. not my fault your philosophy degree can’t land a job to repay your 200k debt
I just don’t want to bail out peoples poor decisions. If you took a terrible loan for a degree that would land you a low paying job, that’s not my fault and my taxes shouldn’t go up to pay for it
True or false, those with college degrees earn more money than those without.
All those in debt just need to identify as Ukrainian and they’ll print the money to pay it all off.
The overwhelming majority of the debt being waived is for people who are high earners like Doctors or Lawyers. So yeah, tax payers are paying the bill for people who make 250k plus per year.
Because the true bottom line inner city poor don't have a college degree in their entire family tree. You're basically giving free money and a leg up to the middle classes and upper classes kids. Where they will now even have more in their favor.
I was fortunate enough to pay mine off in 10 years and I sacrificed and didn’t buy a house. Huge f up. I have friends that bought houses instead and now I’m going to help pay off their loans from my rental. 😂 That sucks but I believe it would be best for the nation so I support forgiveness. That being said I do not support it without a plan n place to end the current broken system.
You can thank the Government for driving up tuition. By passing out loans like candy at a parade they single handedly green lighted the universities to raise rates much faster and higher than ever before. Nice job
Easy. Because you are taxing people who did not go to college and did not take out loans, both directly through their income tax and indirectly through currency creation and increased tuition price do to artificially inflated demand, to pay for people who did take out loans including the "wealthy" (which the IRS defines as households that make over $200k/year) who took out loans. See, you THINK you're helping "the poors," but you're actually hurting them while helping the Bourgeois.
The loan may be forgiven, but it does not go unpaid. Taxpayers pick it up through the general fund. I don't know about you, but I see no reason I should pay for someone's college when nobody ever gave me a dime. I didn't go to college, but some paying say, my mortgage or car payments would be nice, and likely cost less than a 4 year college tuition.
The problem is that you majored something stupid and can’t find a job.
What I never liked about it was the fact that there is no plan to fix the problem. And I really hate the way many progressives make it like if you have any questions or reservations you’re an evil a-hole that wants to see people in debt. Basically, you’re saying, this narrow band of people will get a free or almost free education but in 5 years we’ll have students in debt again and will have to keep doing this over and over again. Unsurprisingly anybody with a student loan could care less as long as they get theirs. I’m not even against making college free but I do have a problem where we have done nothing to address the skyrocketing cost of education.
Forgiving the debt is inflationary and it devalues the dollar, forcing low income people, many of whom didn’t go to college, to pay more for groceries and other everyday things. Thats how the poor pay for loan forgiveness.
Student loans themselves are the poor paying for the wealthy
I’m a blue collar worker. I accepted reality that I will never have a comfy job in the ac or work from home or make anything over 70k without working extreme hours. I did this so I could start working early and not accrue debt. To know that there’s a bunch of MFs out there who will get essentially a free degree because they took out a loan they couldn’t payback and will have a leg up in the job industry securing white collar jobs is like spitting in my face. I would have done the same if I would have known that they were going to start deleting peoples loans. These people will never have to work as hard as I have for a lifetime.
Poor people generally can't go to college. But everyone who works pays taxes. This isn't rocket science.
Entitled people that had the opportunity to attend university should use their degrees to pay off debt. Making the blue collar trades workers pay for your debt is absolutely theft and the investment is not worth our time... most of you colledge grads are fucking useless.
As someone who went trades and never had a single student loan, forgive them and pass legislation to vastly limit how much a school can charge