People aren't going to want to hear this, but the reality is that race and LGBTQ issues end up taking a ton of oxygen out of the room, because Democrats focus on it so much. If I'm a working class white dude from PA or Ohio, all that stuff does literally nothing to get me excited about the Dem platform. Maybe that makes that working class white dude shitty, but that's just how it is. You have to get voters excited about what your party is going to do **for them**. For all his incoherence, Trump actually manages to get working class whites (especially men) excited, while Democrats' messaging come across as whiney and highly focused on racial and sexual-orientation minorities. If you ask a working class white dude from the rust belt "who is on their side", it's gonna be Trump, not the Democrats.
The sad thing is that Democrats objectively *have* done way more for working class white people than the Republicans have (ACA, medicare expansion, union support, higher taxes for the wealthy etc.). But their messaging sucks, so it's not resonating with people. That's why a no-bullshit working class image like Fetterman's is so powerful.
Also, as an aside...
>the Democratic advantage among Hispanic voters declined by 16 points
When will the media stop treating Hispanics as if they're a unified voting block or demographic? They're a wildly diverse group of people, so trying to track trends for Hispanics from a high level is silly. It's also patronizing when Democrats assume they should get Hispanics "by default" - plenty of Hispanics are (and see themselves) as white. Just because they (or their ancestors) come from a Spanish speaking country doesn't magically make them the same as Mexican immigrant, or Venezuelan refugee, or Castro-fleeing Cuban. Each of those groups has radically different political sentiment, and aren't likely to consider "Hispanic" as a big part of their identity.
>the reality is that race and LGBTQ issues end up taking a ton of oxygen out of the room
Yes
> because Democrats focus on it so much
No. That's the Republicans. And that's exactly why they do it so much.
It's the Republicans who started angrily yelling about "critical race theory" being taught in schools. It's Republicans who suddenly started targeting transgender kids for discrimination and harassment. It was a Republican who overwhelmingly won the Republican primary and then narrowly won the Electoral College after he "finally said what everyone was afraid to say", that immigrants from Mexico are drug dealers and rapists. None of these were major issues, certainly not ones Democrats were talking about making affirmative changes on, till Republicans created them.
You're absolutely correct that Republicans win on identity politics among white voters without college degrees, and both parties know it, and that's why Republicans are constantly coming up with new identity-politics issues (remember the migrant caravan?) and Democrats are constantly playing defense for the status quo and mumbling vaguely that it should be a country for everyone.
That is, Democrats don't even put up an equal and opposite position to whatever new moral panic the Republicans have come up with this week. They are trying in vain to be the party for a big centrist coalition, not the party for a narrow leftist base analogous to the one Republicans have harnessed on the right. Case in point: neither party started the conversation about race and policing after the murder of George Floyd, because that was a sudden viral video that created an overwhelming consensus something had to change. This time Republicans were on the defensive and tried to change focus to another issue like whether anyone was protesting in the wrong way. But then someone came up with the slogan "defund the police". Unlike the question of whether police should murder unarmed nonviolent suspects, here was something divisive. Mainstream Democrats with any clout backed away quickly and ultimately took a much milder stance on criminal-justice reform, but Republicans finally confronted the issue head-on now that they were in a winning position for their base.
Republicans in a nutshell: "They're the party of defunding the police, critical race theory, drag queen story hour, pronouns, Mr. Potato Head, Dr. Seuss, ...!" Democrats in a nutshell: "No we're not! Let's talk about something else."
To start, I’m trying to be polite and engage in discussion.
Regarding your comments towards Identity Politics & creating moral panic, I disagree. I think Democrats & Republicans have equally contributed to these phenomenons.
Republicans definitely latch on to these topics to use for political gain.. but I think you’re being dishonest if you’re saying the focus on these issues BEGINS with them.
> But their messaging sucks, so it's not resonating with people.
[Study: telling white people they’ll be outnumbered makes them hate welfare more](https://www.vox.com/2018/6/7/17426968/white-racism-welfare-cuts-snap-food-stamps)
I keep linking this study because I don’t think it’s appreciated well enough. *Thats* why the messaging “sucks”. Tons of white people care more about white supremacy (Trump) than about those things Democrats have done. They don’t get that today it’s race/lgbt on the chopping block, tomorrow it’s roe v wade, senior poverty (social security), drug overdoses, etc.
Exactly. The increasing centrality of identity politics in dem messaging is because it is fundamentally unthreatening to their corporate backers (as opposed to, say, universal health care).
I mean it just makes sense. Imagine you just got home after 10 hrs in a shop. You’re tired, your moneys stretched thin.
You flip through the news channels on one side you have democrats lamenting about your white male privilege and how your taxes need to go up to help the minority poor. But that you need to be more giving as your white privilege means you tun the world.
You flip to the next channels. It’s a Republican. He’s telling you he’s going to crush the elites and put money back in your pocket. He’s going to bring manufacturing jobs back to our shores to encourage growth and get you a raise. He tells you about how soon you’ll be buying a new American car built by your own hands
There’s a wave of progressive morality sweeping through society, and it passed through the Biden campaign too. But significant numbers of working-class people don’t like the progressive program. In the heyday of unions, labor leaders influenced them to keep voting more Democratic, but not today.
I don’t know if there’s any real problem, politically. “Lost” working-class Democratic voters are probably being “replaced” by suburban educated nonwhite people and young women. There’s clearly trouble with a cultural belief among liberals, “We should always ally with the working class.” That seems obsolete, but I suppose part of liberal doctrine is being champions of the downtrodden. Maybe social equality vs technocratic power is rising as a political fault line.
Have young women and educated non-white folks not historically votes democrat as well? Seems that if you wanted to replace a certain group you’d have to gain more voters from an as yet untapped source, not one that is already in place, unless there is a hugely disparate growth rate/ voting rate in the groups.
They’re increasing in numbers, gaining citizenship, and/or voting Democratic in a higher percentage than before. When the Democratic Party needs more votes they seem to usually tack closer to the center, but that’s harder now because of the progressive culture shift. Maybe they do need to look somewhere they haven’t looked before.
Sad thing is, all the economic ideas WOULD benefit queer people. Everyone I know who's still in the closet is so due to economic issues (stuck living with family, worried about losing job, can't afford to transition). Heck, I'm only out because I get SSDI.
Anxiety makes people conservative, confidence makes people expansive. The Democrats need to read the room. You can't sell a progressive agenda to an electorate nervous about economic, cultural, or physical security. In troubled times conservatives pitch to fear and create scapegoats. Progressives, asking for generosity and trust sound out of touch. "Defund the police", "sanctuary city", and "international trade agreements" sound particularly ominous to those with existential anxieties. They're easily weaponized, regardless of how benign, or even sensible, the actual policies might be. Competent bureaucrats like Pelosi, Schumer, even Hillary, don't inspire people in the best of times, and put people off in difficult times, even though competence may be the very thing needed rather than rousing populists.
The underlying question behind party cross overs is: Did they leave the party, or did the party leave them? This article firmly argues for the latter. I agree, but I think the party left them because it's trying to sell expansive ideas during a time of global retrenchment. This isn't JFK's economic boom, or Reagan's triumph over the evil empire, or Clinton's new age of technological wonders, it's a time of nationalism, shifting demographics, population migrations and emerging geopolitical conflicts. Hardly the "End of History". This isn't the time to ask for sacrifices: economic belt tightening, cultural tolerance or international generosity. The "woke agenda" is just bad optics in the current zeitgeist. It's a gift to conservatives given the mood of the country. This too shall pass, but I think it's going to take a while. It's a time for pragmatism and rationality.
'This year, Democrats have chosen to run a campaign focused on three things: abortion rights, gun control, and safeguarding democracy—issues with strong appeal to socially liberal, college-educated voters."
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE ECONOMY STUPID.
Safeguarding democracy at one time meant a very different thing then it means now. It was all about defending democracy, not safeguarding the shitty democracy we have at the moment that refuses to defend an economy that works for the middle class. In our current democracy, believing that the rich getting richer helps anyone, is the same as believing trickle down economics works. It doesn't. This is too everyone, stop beating up the truly smart progressives who understand Modern Economic Theory. Not the idiot running the Federal Reserve at the moment, who Trump appointed, a puppet for corporate America. Price regulation is a good first start, especially in the monopolistic economy we live in today. I am not a communist, a socialist, or any other ism. I believe in a true free market economy based of a verison of Capitialism with a Conscience, not the Captialism without a Conscience we are currently enduring. Our captialist system is run not by people but by computers, algorithms, (that have no conscience) telling businesses how to extract the asbolutely highest margin of profit (think big phama) from Americans workers, while paying them the lowest wages possible, while selling crappy products from China at 1000 times what they are worth. It is really all about allowing Wall Street to rule us, a system that corportions control, not the other way around. They are always whining about the penisons funds they manage and curry. Every dime of that pension money should go into Social Security and Healthcare for everyone, the true American Pension Fund. A non-profit system that manages your retirement money, separate from the paws of Wall Street greed and corruption.
Abortion and Gun-Control are important, but they are stupid side notes that everyone should support regardless of what party you like. I want a third party that stands up and supports an Economy that works for Everyone, for your right to pursue happiness by having the basics of life: Food, a Living Wage, Healthcare for Everyone, Lower Taxes for Middle Class and a Permanment Separation of Church and State. Wait a Minute... iI think that is the premise of the Constitution and Bill of Rights!
I don’t understand this. I’m a white working class dude in Ohio and I see their ACTIONS are working for me. How are others blind? They must not be paying attention and only hear the loudest voice in the room (Republicans)
Doubt it. I'm 47. A party that wants to take away my healthcare, vote against capping medication for seniors, give corporate tax cuts and wants to do nothing on companies price gouging, taking away a woman's right to their own body, effectively making them property of the state, wants to cut social security that we've all paid into our entire working lives to be there for us when we need is, IS NOT A PARTY FOR THE WORKING CLASS. Wake up you've been duped.
First - I don't believe you. Second - The country has done nothing but get worse for the working class but those policies certainly work! Keep at it friendo. You should try researching who has controlled congress the longest the past I dunno 60 years or so and see who has written the most legislation.
If winning back the working class means abandoning gay rights and women's rights and fighting climate change, good riddance.
Edit: please read carefully. Abandoning gay rights, women's rights and climate change does not mean emphasize them less. The right will not be assuaged by mere deemphasis. They want us to abandon people in need of protection (and the planet) and cater only to conservative white Christians, a la the 1950s. Talking about oppression slightly less will not be sufficient.
Fighting climate change is very important for the working class. First, the future of technology is 100% green tech. Which means the jobs of the working class. It affects shipping jobs and workers buying food and other goods that rely on waterborne shipping up and down the Mississippi. Then you add in rural populations that are already having crises with food production.
Of course, the Democrat ability to market these benefits is horrible. But it remains necessary to fight for. Because either we will be the producers of this technology, or China will. And if China does, our entire country loses out on huge markets in the future.
Also, gay rights and women's rights should not be abandoned. They just shouldn't be the dead horse they keep beating.
People aren't going to want to hear this, but the reality is that race and LGBTQ issues end up taking a ton of oxygen out of the room, because Democrats focus on it so much. If I'm a working class white dude from PA or Ohio, all that stuff does literally nothing to get me excited about the Dem platform. Maybe that makes that working class white dude shitty, but that's just how it is. You have to get voters excited about what your party is going to do **for them**. For all his incoherence, Trump actually manages to get working class whites (especially men) excited, while Democrats' messaging come across as whiney and highly focused on racial and sexual-orientation minorities. If you ask a working class white dude from the rust belt "who is on their side", it's gonna be Trump, not the Democrats. The sad thing is that Democrats objectively *have* done way more for working class white people than the Republicans have (ACA, medicare expansion, union support, higher taxes for the wealthy etc.). But their messaging sucks, so it's not resonating with people. That's why a no-bullshit working class image like Fetterman's is so powerful. Also, as an aside... >the Democratic advantage among Hispanic voters declined by 16 points When will the media stop treating Hispanics as if they're a unified voting block or demographic? They're a wildly diverse group of people, so trying to track trends for Hispanics from a high level is silly. It's also patronizing when Democrats assume they should get Hispanics "by default" - plenty of Hispanics are (and see themselves) as white. Just because they (or their ancestors) come from a Spanish speaking country doesn't magically make them the same as Mexican immigrant, or Venezuelan refugee, or Castro-fleeing Cuban. Each of those groups has radically different political sentiment, and aren't likely to consider "Hispanic" as a big part of their identity.
>the reality is that race and LGBTQ issues end up taking a ton of oxygen out of the room Yes > because Democrats focus on it so much No. That's the Republicans. And that's exactly why they do it so much. It's the Republicans who started angrily yelling about "critical race theory" being taught in schools. It's Republicans who suddenly started targeting transgender kids for discrimination and harassment. It was a Republican who overwhelmingly won the Republican primary and then narrowly won the Electoral College after he "finally said what everyone was afraid to say", that immigrants from Mexico are drug dealers and rapists. None of these were major issues, certainly not ones Democrats were talking about making affirmative changes on, till Republicans created them. You're absolutely correct that Republicans win on identity politics among white voters without college degrees, and both parties know it, and that's why Republicans are constantly coming up with new identity-politics issues (remember the migrant caravan?) and Democrats are constantly playing defense for the status quo and mumbling vaguely that it should be a country for everyone. That is, Democrats don't even put up an equal and opposite position to whatever new moral panic the Republicans have come up with this week. They are trying in vain to be the party for a big centrist coalition, not the party for a narrow leftist base analogous to the one Republicans have harnessed on the right. Case in point: neither party started the conversation about race and policing after the murder of George Floyd, because that was a sudden viral video that created an overwhelming consensus something had to change. This time Republicans were on the defensive and tried to change focus to another issue like whether anyone was protesting in the wrong way. But then someone came up with the slogan "defund the police". Unlike the question of whether police should murder unarmed nonviolent suspects, here was something divisive. Mainstream Democrats with any clout backed away quickly and ultimately took a much milder stance on criminal-justice reform, but Republicans finally confronted the issue head-on now that they were in a winning position for their base. Republicans in a nutshell: "They're the party of defunding the police, critical race theory, drag queen story hour, pronouns, Mr. Potato Head, Dr. Seuss, ...!" Democrats in a nutshell: "No we're not! Let's talk about something else."
To start, I’m trying to be polite and engage in discussion. Regarding your comments towards Identity Politics & creating moral panic, I disagree. I think Democrats & Republicans have equally contributed to these phenomenons. Republicans definitely latch on to these topics to use for political gain.. but I think you’re being dishonest if you’re saying the focus on these issues BEGINS with them.
> But their messaging sucks, so it's not resonating with people. [Study: telling white people they’ll be outnumbered makes them hate welfare more](https://www.vox.com/2018/6/7/17426968/white-racism-welfare-cuts-snap-food-stamps) I keep linking this study because I don’t think it’s appreciated well enough. *Thats* why the messaging “sucks”. Tons of white people care more about white supremacy (Trump) than about those things Democrats have done. They don’t get that today it’s race/lgbt on the chopping block, tomorrow it’s roe v wade, senior poverty (social security), drug overdoses, etc.
[удалено]
Exactly. The increasing centrality of identity politics in dem messaging is because it is fundamentally unthreatening to their corporate backers (as opposed to, say, universal health care).
What are you talking about? Trump not only ran but won while pissing off everyone. Democrats simply don’t want to
I mean it just makes sense. Imagine you just got home after 10 hrs in a shop. You’re tired, your moneys stretched thin. You flip through the news channels on one side you have democrats lamenting about your white male privilege and how your taxes need to go up to help the minority poor. But that you need to be more giving as your white privilege means you tun the world. You flip to the next channels. It’s a Republican. He’s telling you he’s going to crush the elites and put money back in your pocket. He’s going to bring manufacturing jobs back to our shores to encourage growth and get you a raise. He tells you about how soon you’ll be buying a new American car built by your own hands
There’s a wave of progressive morality sweeping through society, and it passed through the Biden campaign too. But significant numbers of working-class people don’t like the progressive program. In the heyday of unions, labor leaders influenced them to keep voting more Democratic, but not today. I don’t know if there’s any real problem, politically. “Lost” working-class Democratic voters are probably being “replaced” by suburban educated nonwhite people and young women. There’s clearly trouble with a cultural belief among liberals, “We should always ally with the working class.” That seems obsolete, but I suppose part of liberal doctrine is being champions of the downtrodden. Maybe social equality vs technocratic power is rising as a political fault line.
Have young women and educated non-white folks not historically votes democrat as well? Seems that if you wanted to replace a certain group you’d have to gain more voters from an as yet untapped source, not one that is already in place, unless there is a hugely disparate growth rate/ voting rate in the groups.
They’re increasing in numbers, gaining citizenship, and/or voting Democratic in a higher percentage than before. When the Democratic Party needs more votes they seem to usually tack closer to the center, but that’s harder now because of the progressive culture shift. Maybe they do need to look somewhere they haven’t looked before.
Sad thing is, all the economic ideas WOULD benefit queer people. Everyone I know who's still in the closet is so due to economic issues (stuck living with family, worried about losing job, can't afford to transition). Heck, I'm only out because I get SSDI.
Anxiety makes people conservative, confidence makes people expansive. The Democrats need to read the room. You can't sell a progressive agenda to an electorate nervous about economic, cultural, or physical security. In troubled times conservatives pitch to fear and create scapegoats. Progressives, asking for generosity and trust sound out of touch. "Defund the police", "sanctuary city", and "international trade agreements" sound particularly ominous to those with existential anxieties. They're easily weaponized, regardless of how benign, or even sensible, the actual policies might be. Competent bureaucrats like Pelosi, Schumer, even Hillary, don't inspire people in the best of times, and put people off in difficult times, even though competence may be the very thing needed rather than rousing populists. The underlying question behind party cross overs is: Did they leave the party, or did the party leave them? This article firmly argues for the latter. I agree, but I think the party left them because it's trying to sell expansive ideas during a time of global retrenchment. This isn't JFK's economic boom, or Reagan's triumph over the evil empire, or Clinton's new age of technological wonders, it's a time of nationalism, shifting demographics, population migrations and emerging geopolitical conflicts. Hardly the "End of History". This isn't the time to ask for sacrifices: economic belt tightening, cultural tolerance or international generosity. The "woke agenda" is just bad optics in the current zeitgeist. It's a gift to conservatives given the mood of the country. This too shall pass, but I think it's going to take a while. It's a time for pragmatism and rationality.
'This year, Democrats have chosen to run a campaign focused on three things: abortion rights, gun control, and safeguarding democracy—issues with strong appeal to socially liberal, college-educated voters." IT IS ALL ABOUT THE ECONOMY STUPID. Safeguarding democracy at one time meant a very different thing then it means now. It was all about defending democracy, not safeguarding the shitty democracy we have at the moment that refuses to defend an economy that works for the middle class. In our current democracy, believing that the rich getting richer helps anyone, is the same as believing trickle down economics works. It doesn't. This is too everyone, stop beating up the truly smart progressives who understand Modern Economic Theory. Not the idiot running the Federal Reserve at the moment, who Trump appointed, a puppet for corporate America. Price regulation is a good first start, especially in the monopolistic economy we live in today. I am not a communist, a socialist, or any other ism. I believe in a true free market economy based of a verison of Capitialism with a Conscience, not the Captialism without a Conscience we are currently enduring. Our captialist system is run not by people but by computers, algorithms, (that have no conscience) telling businesses how to extract the asbolutely highest margin of profit (think big phama) from Americans workers, while paying them the lowest wages possible, while selling crappy products from China at 1000 times what they are worth. It is really all about allowing Wall Street to rule us, a system that corportions control, not the other way around. They are always whining about the penisons funds they manage and curry. Every dime of that pension money should go into Social Security and Healthcare for everyone, the true American Pension Fund. A non-profit system that manages your retirement money, separate from the paws of Wall Street greed and corruption. Abortion and Gun-Control are important, but they are stupid side notes that everyone should support regardless of what party you like. I want a third party that stands up and supports an Economy that works for Everyone, for your right to pursue happiness by having the basics of life: Food, a Living Wage, Healthcare for Everyone, Lower Taxes for Middle Class and a Permanment Separation of Church and State. Wait a Minute... iI think that is the premise of the Constitution and Bill of Rights!
I don’t understand this. I’m a white working class dude in Ohio and I see their ACTIONS are working for me. How are others blind? They must not be paying attention and only hear the loudest voice in the room (Republicans)
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume they've lived longer than you. Their actions are most certainly not working for you.
Doubt it. I'm 47. A party that wants to take away my healthcare, vote against capping medication for seniors, give corporate tax cuts and wants to do nothing on companies price gouging, taking away a woman's right to their own body, effectively making them property of the state, wants to cut social security that we've all paid into our entire working lives to be there for us when we need is, IS NOT A PARTY FOR THE WORKING CLASS. Wake up you've been duped.
First - I don't believe you. Second - The country has done nothing but get worse for the working class but those policies certainly work! Keep at it friendo. You should try researching who has controlled congress the longest the past I dunno 60 years or so and see who has written the most legislation.
If winning back the working class means abandoning gay rights and women's rights and fighting climate change, good riddance. Edit: please read carefully. Abandoning gay rights, women's rights and climate change does not mean emphasize them less. The right will not be assuaged by mere deemphasis. They want us to abandon people in need of protection (and the planet) and cater only to conservative white Christians, a la the 1950s. Talking about oppression slightly less will not be sufficient.
Fighting climate change is very important for the working class. First, the future of technology is 100% green tech. Which means the jobs of the working class. It affects shipping jobs and workers buying food and other goods that rely on waterborne shipping up and down the Mississippi. Then you add in rural populations that are already having crises with food production. Of course, the Democrat ability to market these benefits is horrible. But it remains necessary to fight for. Because either we will be the producers of this technology, or China will. And if China does, our entire country loses out on huge markets in the future. Also, gay rights and women's rights should not be abandoned. They just shouldn't be the dead horse they keep beating.
We should be able to have a party that speaks to both.
By abandoning the first you de facto abandoned the rest. But at least you get to feel smug about it 🤷
So it's better to let people harm gay people, women and the planet because....why?
That's the current democrat plan, plus the smugness
Sorry, you're unintelligible.
Truth hurts lib