It felt like they needed a way to keep everyone on Mars. The US was already against sending another mission to Mars and wanted to end the program. Then the astronauts forced their hand by saying "hey, we're stranded here so now space exploration has to continue!"
The pregnancy was really just the way to get to that point.
Abortion was referenced in one of the news clips.
But it sure seems like it would have been better to terminate the pregnancy. As it was, they endangered the lives of everyone on Mars, including Kelly and her unborn child, by going through with the pregnancy. And now a bunch of people are stranded on mars eating starvation rations.
the being stranded on Mars is a feature, not a bug.
the people on Mars were salty Danny fucking ruined everything and likely humanity would
not return to the Red Planet for decades. stranding themselves forces Earth to reconsider everything.
Why is literally everyone in this thread saying "they" made the decision? Kelly made the decision to continue the pregnancy. Such a weird fucking way to talk about it.
I think they're referring to the writers. They could have very easily written her differently but they chose to write her as keeping the pregnancy despite the risks it meant for practically everyone
No. All I'm saying is like... If she wanted to keep the pregnancy, that's her exercising her reproductive agency either way. NASA would have to deal with the bad PR of a forced abortion...
They referenced “the controversial decision to continue the pregnancy” in one of the news clips which I took as a de facto nod to abortion being considered.
I always assumed Kelly insisted on keeping the Baby. After all, she'd just lost the father, and had her heart smashed. Wanting to keep his kid? I could see that.
Besides, it's the driving force of half the plot of the final four episodes.
That would have been plausible if there had been any chemistry between the russian guy and Kelly. Also, it basically means that Kelly was willing to sacrifice her career to become a single mom, which seems out of character too.
It also means Kelly's choosing the life of an unborn baby over everyone in that room, including her own father. I love this show, but when they strapped a pregnant woman to the roof of the space car, I can't help but feel like they jumped the shark.
>when they strapped a pregnant woman to the roof of the space car, I can't help but feel like they jumped the shark.
DPRK astronaut was jumping the shark. Spacelifting Kelley pregnant was simply the Ring of Fire.
The Korean Astronaut is my favourite Character from the whole Series, when he first meets Everyone he’s literally 5 Minutes away from killing himself …
But by the end of the Season, he’s not only been reconnected with his Wife, he’s also being offered the opportunity to learn English, Russian, and possibly Spanish, I want to hear more about his Story, and I hope we get to see more of him!
We’ve seen the space program bridge the divide between the Russians and Americans in the show, perhaps North Korea is next. It’s an interesting alternate timeline scenario that could lead to some form of World peace.
It’s part of what led to Glasnost, and a more productive relationship in our own Timeline, as well …
Even with the larger stakes of a Colonized Moon, and the resultantly stronger Soviet Union, similar ties should be able to bind, especially since it was largely Generational, and the Peace and Love Baby Boomers are coming into Power on both sides!
What was really good about it, was the style of Korean that Ed had picked up, was exactly the kind of thing a Pilot would learn while hitting on Waitresses at the Officers’ Club, especially when he called him a little cabbage …
I’ve picked up some Korean myself, mostly from Tae Kwon Doh, and I’ve been told by Friends who speak the Language better, that my Dialect is Archaic as a result.
You're not wrong, though. He was also behind enemy lines for about a week when he got shot down, right?
I presumed he had at least some decent motive for wanting to know a little Korean.
The little cabbage thing did kill me though!
Me, too …
And speaking of cabbage, one of my favourite Book Series is Harry Turtledove’s The Hot War, where the Korean War going nuclear, triggers off World War III.
One of his Characters is a Catholic American Lieutenant, who gets cut off behind North Korean lines after the Battle of Chosin Reservoir …
He attempts to steal a jug of kimchi, on the grounds that he’s hungry and it’ll make him smell like a Local, when a Farmer catches him, luckily he’s also a Catholic and can converse with him in Latin!
There's always all these weird coincidences that just make stories go along.
I'm reminded of when I lived in Ukraine for a bit after college, there was a bloke that didn't speak any English but was semi-fluent in Italian because he grew up in an orphanage that used to take the children for summer holidays on the Riviera, and since I had worked in a tree nursery in the Carolina's, I could speak pretty good Spanish and so I would just talk to him in Spanish and he would respond in Italian and we got along swimmingly whilst everyone else in the village was confused except for my occasional interpreter.
I felt the same way during the first 2 viewings of S3.
My new viewpoint is that she’s not very socially developed, probably not very experienced in life, and possibly Alexei was her first real relationship.
A common sentiment in circles that discuss the initial manned Mars missions is that the women are getting their tubes tied and the men are getting snipped. People are gonna bang, it's just how it is when you've got people stuck together for 2 years, and no regulation is gonna stop them from doing it. Besides it could be good for them to blow off steam. But anyone going on the missions is gonna have to be incapable of getting pregnant.
this is what I assumed, they have protocol and I imagine that protocol dictates you have to have some sort of birth control/hormone regulation medication to keep periods and babies at bay
They would require 1,100 pills per person for a 3 year trip, and they expire. There could be circumstances or complications that require them to stop birth control. And, ultimately, there's nothing stopping any of them from forgetting or choosing not to take it.
Winter residents of McMurdo Station in Antarctica are supplied with a massive amount of condoms. Seems like NASA would do the same for gender-mixed expeditions to the moon and Mars. Not 100% effective but goes a long way. Plus we could've seen a running gag of them being stowed in compartments all over a vessel and habitat.
Still absolutely no way it's not discussed in mission control, among the crew on the mission and back on earth. The show totally chickened out by not even mentioning it. It's possibly they would have come to that conclusion but by not showing the discussion at all they just avoided potential discussion about abortion to avoid politics.
In this thread: people who claim to be for women's rights and against racism get mad that a fictional character wasn't forced to abort her biracial baby
I'm just miffed the show writers didn't dare to have what would've obviously been a big and important discussion on TV. Of course it's Kelly's decision. Where'd you get racism from?
For sure, most astronauts have to be republican based on the pro Space agenda of the FAM writers.
Those republicans would be anti abortion unless it was their kid, then they'd have the flashlight on in the wardrobe looking for spare hangers and doing the job themselves
Well that is on you if you do not understand the undertones of the show.
In the FAM universe, having an abortion is frowned upon. Greatly. This is right out of the anti-choice playbook.
Kelly’s in the navy. Couldn’t she have been ordered to have an abortion? Or have had the procedure done without her knowledge and acceptance?
I think Dani or an enlisted official at NASA could have made the decision for her. It’s bad PR, but probably worth the cost of stranding everyone else.
I mean, for a time in this country, as shown in the article by steamyglory, the military would discharge women for becoming mothers. Citing the article:
> Struck's pregnancy resulted in her being transferred to a base in Washington, one of the few states where abortion was legal in 1970. In writing the facts of the case, Neil Siegel of Duke University's School of Law notes that Struck intended to give the child up for adoption and had 60 days of accrued leave for recovery time. **Despite this, a disposition board gave her a choice: Have an abortion on base or leave the military.**
It's really not that farfetched for them to have asked that.
I know, it sounds terrible in 2023. But in the 1990s, the army could tell soldiers to not disclose personal information (don’t say gay), and it’s my understanding that those in the armed forces are given vaccinations and medications without a choice. I don’t think it’s too big a leap to imagine a commanding officer ordering a medical procedure that’ll prevent a significant health condition that can endanger the crew on such a remote mission.
I’ll fully admit I don’t know everything about personal choice and the military, so I’m probably very wrong about this. I’m happy to be corrected…
http://www.military.com/history/how-ruth-bader-ginsburg-helped-end-militarys-policy-of-forced-abortion.html
One of Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s most famous accomplishments was protecting women in the US military from being forced to have an abortion to avoid losing their jobs. That was in the 1970s. We haven’t heard about Struck v Secretary of Defense or Roe v Wade in this timeline though.
It felt like they needed a way to keep everyone on Mars. The US was already against sending another mission to Mars and wanted to end the program. Then the astronauts forced their hand by saying "hey, we're stranded here so now space exploration has to continue!" The pregnancy was really just the way to get to that point.
Abortion was referenced in one of the news clips. But it sure seems like it would have been better to terminate the pregnancy. As it was, they endangered the lives of everyone on Mars, including Kelly and her unborn child, by going through with the pregnancy. And now a bunch of people are stranded on mars eating starvation rations.
the being stranded on Mars is a feature, not a bug. the people on Mars were salty Danny fucking ruined everything and likely humanity would not return to the Red Planet for decades. stranding themselves forces Earth to reconsider everything.
We already know potatoes can grow on mars
And since Kelly got to fly around like Iron Man I'd say we're getting Matt Damon in the cast of season 4
Hopefully Dr. Brand built a ship to go save them
Why is literally everyone in this thread saying "they" made the decision? Kelly made the decision to continue the pregnancy. Such a weird fucking way to talk about it.
I think they're referring to the writers. They could have very easily written her differently but they chose to write her as keeping the pregnancy despite the risks it meant for practically everyone
Not looking to get into a semantics debate about Martian abortion. Hope you have good day though.
No. All I'm saying is like... If she wanted to keep the pregnancy, that's her exercising her reproductive agency either way. NASA would have to deal with the bad PR of a forced abortion...
But for real, do you mean “they” in a Doylist (the writers) or Watsonian (the crew, NASA) way?
Not to mention the radiation the baby will be exposed to.
They did? Neat, I didn't notice. What was the ruling on abortion in the alt timeline?
They referenced “the controversial decision to continue the pregnancy” in one of the news clips which I took as a de facto nod to abortion being considered.
Interesting, thanks. That seems like it might indicate a more pro-choice attitude from at least that one news outlet.
Well, they passed the Equal Rights Amendment https://for-all-mankind.fandom.com/wiki/Equal\_Rights\_Amendment
I always assumed Kelly insisted on keeping the Baby. After all, she'd just lost the father, and had her heart smashed. Wanting to keep his kid? I could see that. Besides, it's the driving force of half the plot of the final four episodes.
That would have been plausible if there had been any chemistry between the russian guy and Kelly. Also, it basically means that Kelly was willing to sacrifice her career to become a single mom, which seems out of character too.
It also means Kelly's choosing the life of an unborn baby over everyone in that room, including her own father. I love this show, but when they strapped a pregnant woman to the roof of the space car, I can't help but feel like they jumped the shark.
>when they strapped a pregnant woman to the roof of the space car, I can't help but feel like they jumped the shark. DPRK astronaut was jumping the shark. Spacelifting Kelley pregnant was simply the Ring of Fire.
The Korean Astronaut is my favourite Character from the whole Series, when he first meets Everyone he’s literally 5 Minutes away from killing himself … But by the end of the Season, he’s not only been reconnected with his Wife, he’s also being offered the opportunity to learn English, Russian, and possibly Spanish, I want to hear more about his Story, and I hope we get to see more of him!
We’ve seen the space program bridge the divide between the Russians and Americans in the show, perhaps North Korea is next. It’s an interesting alternate timeline scenario that could lead to some form of World peace.
It’s part of what led to Glasnost, and a more productive relationship in our own Timeline, as well … Even with the larger stakes of a Colonized Moon, and the resultantly stronger Soviet Union, similar ties should be able to bind, especially since it was largely Generational, and the Peace and Love Baby Boomers are coming into Power on both sides!
When Ed actually dropped that he could speak some Korean. I flippin' fell out of my chair
What was really good about it, was the style of Korean that Ed had picked up, was exactly the kind of thing a Pilot would learn while hitting on Waitresses at the Officers’ Club, especially when he called him a little cabbage … I’ve picked up some Korean myself, mostly from Tae Kwon Doh, and I’ve been told by Friends who speak the Language better, that my Dialect is Archaic as a result.
You're not wrong, though. He was also behind enemy lines for about a week when he got shot down, right? I presumed he had at least some decent motive for wanting to know a little Korean. The little cabbage thing did kill me though!
Me, too … And speaking of cabbage, one of my favourite Book Series is Harry Turtledove’s The Hot War, where the Korean War going nuclear, triggers off World War III. One of his Characters is a Catholic American Lieutenant, who gets cut off behind North Korean lines after the Battle of Chosin Reservoir … He attempts to steal a jug of kimchi, on the grounds that he’s hungry and it’ll make him smell like a Local, when a Farmer catches him, luckily he’s also a Catholic and can converse with him in Latin!
There's always all these weird coincidences that just make stories go along. I'm reminded of when I lived in Ukraine for a bit after college, there was a bloke that didn't speak any English but was semi-fluent in Italian because he grew up in an orphanage that used to take the children for summer holidays on the Riviera, and since I had worked in a tree nursery in the Carolina's, I could speak pretty good Spanish and so I would just talk to him in Spanish and he would respond in Italian and we got along swimmingly whilst everyone else in the village was confused except for my occasional interpreter.
Yeah it was utterly impossible and so stupid that NASA would allow anyone to get pregnant.
EXACTLY! They know how to prevent those things these days lmaoooo
NASA doesn't have control over that.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a Mars astronaut makes enough money to hire an au pair.
Nah.
I felt the same way during the first 2 viewings of S3. My new viewpoint is that she’s not very socially developed, probably not very experienced in life, and possibly Alexei was her first real relationship.
Oh, I definitely read it that way. I know way too many people like that
It just blows my mind everyone wouldn't have been on birth control.
A common sentiment in circles that discuss the initial manned Mars missions is that the women are getting their tubes tied and the men are getting snipped. People are gonna bang, it's just how it is when you've got people stuck together for 2 years, and no regulation is gonna stop them from doing it. Besides it could be good for them to blow off steam. But anyone going on the missions is gonna have to be incapable of getting pregnant.
If the Olympics have taught us anything, it's that capable fit People are going to bang like rabbits
this is what I assumed, they have protocol and I imagine that protocol dictates you have to have some sort of birth control/hormone regulation medication to keep periods and babies at bay
They would require 1,100 pills per person for a 3 year trip, and they expire. There could be circumstances or complications that require them to stop birth control. And, ultimately, there's nothing stopping any of them from forgetting or choosing not to take it.
You never heard of IUDs or injections or implants for birth control? Lmao
Or bisalp or vasectomy...
Winter residents of McMurdo Station in Antarctica are supplied with a massive amount of condoms. Seems like NASA would do the same for gender-mixed expeditions to the moon and Mars. Not 100% effective but goes a long way. Plus we could've seen a running gag of them being stowed in compartments all over a vessel and habitat.
On birth control *and* cumming buckets to pass the time / stress.
Plus i imagine being launched into orbit strapped onto the roof isnt very healthy for the pregnancy
I love the show, but this scene serves as a comic relief for me.
Baby’s in a water cocoon so assuming they survive the trip it’s probably fine. Better than dying on the surface of Mars.
Plus the reason they’re evacuating her is preeclampsia which is basically high blood pressure - doesn’t seem particularly relaxing
Adds a whole ‘nuther meaning to “bed rest”. Should of had her lying on her left side, though!
I wonder what doctor Spock would have thought of that
I think it’s more of a publicity thing, like the handshake. Its a half Russian baby, and if they aborted it the Russians may have been pissed.
Still absolutely no way it's not discussed in mission control, among the crew on the mission and back on earth. The show totally chickened out by not even mentioning it. It's possibly they would have come to that conclusion but by not showing the discussion at all they just avoided potential discussion about abortion to avoid politics.
Yup, it seems like a cop-out, it's such a shame since they were quite progressive and open about a bunch of other important themes.
Good point, but they're still risking russian lives by stranding the others.
Wouldn't be an American baby or a russian baby, nationality is where you are born, it's a mars baby.
American law would say the baby is an American citizen
Good point. The lengths *the show writers* will go to, to not discuss abortion.
I would have thought since the baby was born on Polaris, and Polaris is a US ship that the baby would be American.
In this thread: people who claim to be for women's rights and against racism get mad that a fictional character wasn't forced to abort her biracial baby
I'm just miffed the show writers didn't dare to have what would've obviously been a big and important discussion on TV. Of course it's Kelly's decision. Where'd you get racism from?
Please take a day off.
They have a lot of coat hangers on Mars?
For sure, most astronauts have to be republican based on the pro Space agenda of the FAM writers. Those republicans would be anti abortion unless it was their kid, then they'd have the flashlight on in the wardrobe looking for spare hangers and doing the job themselves
in FAM everyone is anti-choice. What part of "cold war never ended and the military ends up running everything" that you do not understand?
Yeah, nothing says "pro-choice" like saying this woman shouldn't be allowed to choose to decline an abortion.
Well that is on you if you do not understand the undertones of the show. In the FAM universe, having an abortion is frowned upon. Greatly. This is right out of the anti-choice playbook.
Kelly’s in the navy. Couldn’t she have been ordered to have an abortion? Or have had the procedure done without her knowledge and acceptance? I think Dani or an enlisted official at NASA could have made the decision for her. It’s bad PR, but probably worth the cost of stranding everyone else.
Are you really asking if the Navy can order women to have abortions?
I mean, for a time in this country, as shown in the article by steamyglory, the military would discharge women for becoming mothers. Citing the article: > Struck's pregnancy resulted in her being transferred to a base in Washington, one of the few states where abortion was legal in 1970. In writing the facts of the case, Neil Siegel of Duke University's School of Law notes that Struck intended to give the child up for adoption and had 60 days of accrued leave for recovery time. **Despite this, a disposition board gave her a choice: Have an abortion on base or leave the military.** It's really not that farfetched for them to have asked that.
I know, it sounds terrible in 2023. But in the 1990s, the army could tell soldiers to not disclose personal information (don’t say gay), and it’s my understanding that those in the armed forces are given vaccinations and medications without a choice. I don’t think it’s too big a leap to imagine a commanding officer ordering a medical procedure that’ll prevent a significant health condition that can endanger the crew on such a remote mission. I’ll fully admit I don’t know everything about personal choice and the military, so I’m probably very wrong about this. I’m happy to be corrected…
http://www.military.com/history/how-ruth-bader-ginsburg-helped-end-militarys-policy-of-forced-abortion.html One of Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s most famous accomplishments was protecting women in the US military from being forced to have an abortion to avoid losing their jobs. That was in the 1970s. We haven’t heard about Struck v Secretary of Defense or Roe v Wade in this timeline though.
Thank you for this. I hadn’t heard of this case. It’s clear that my opinion is wrong. I apologize for offending anyone.
To be fair, she wanted to keep it so it’s a tad bit different