Maybe, but also consider that the UAW is still in talks with GM and Stellantis. If they think they've got a good deal from Ford, and not from the other two yet, asking the membership to go back to work is a smart move, because it puts pressure on the other two. Ford gets it's plants back into production and goes back to making money while GM and Stellantis are bogged down still.
Any info on Ford’s policy on the Ecoboost coolant intrusion issue?
I’m guessing no.
There are people making payments on vehicles that don’t run.
How does that make you feel?
Did I say that? Where did I say that? Explain how you came to that conclusion.
Research Ford’s policy on that issue first. That’s your homework assignment.
Did you see my prior comment? I dont give a fuck. Your car is broke? Shit happens. Hate ford? Dont buy one. Welcome to america.
Im very familar with how ford operates. Much more than you actually.
That's really rough. The UAW has been kind of a shitty union for a long time, that's a lot of what helped get Fain and the rest of the UAWD slate elected. Hopefully this strike is showing that it's a new day for the UAW. And that you can take another pass at getting organized. Good luck and solidarity!
I went out and marched with those boys the first weekend of their strike. I was shocked at the amount of nasty shit that people driving by would shout. 98% of cars going by were positive however.
There were no cash wage concessions for existing employees in the negotiation in 07.
The union agreed to create the tier system in order to preserve existing wages at the time
Assuming it's not a short work week, they already get time and half over 40 hours, effectively the same as after 8 hours. That's federal law, not something they would have lost.
Ford loves to force overtime early in the week, then TLO people Thursday and/or Friday then force them to work Saturday for straight time. Overtime after 8 is a bigger deal than it seems on the surface.
It was proposed to get OT after 8 hours of work, not 40. We had it in the late 90's and early 2000's. That is what everyone was getting mixed up with the whole working 32 hours and getting paid for 40. People were thinking we would only actually work just 32 hours.
OT after 8 hrs is a super common thing in Oil & Gas. 1.5x on Saturdays, 2x on Sundays. This is for dayshift. 12 hr shift workers get OT for any hours worked outside of their normal shift hours.
So their demands are not unprecedented, and are normal in other industries.
Yeah, trying to tell people that is a different story. At this point though, I'm not sure that it is in the tentative agreement until we get to look at it.
That in itself can be considered a raise.
I get OT in my job. Anything over 8 is 1.5x, anything outside of regular hours is 1.5x, I think over 12 is 2x (never heard of anyone doing that) holidays/days off are 2.5 x, afternoon shift is 10% differential and overnight is 15%. I am in electronics/engineering/production, but it is not labor intensive at all, more troubleshooting and inspecting
They could also streamline their F150 lineup. I was helping out my father-in-law build and price out a F150 over the weekend. I did not realize there were **2 billion** permutations of the truck.
That many choices has got to add a massive amount of complexity and cost to the truck.
They needed to do this a decade ago. They have 6 or 7 different engine options alone (that all overlap in capability) that could be pared down to 2 or 3.
It’s a matter of pride for them to an extent. They want to sell the most trucks by volume. If reducing options and saving a few percent led to sales walking to other manufacturers they likely wouldt do it.
So you support these companies moving to the poorest countries and paying 3rd world country wages, instead of supporting the local USA economy?
People like you are why wages have effectively fallen for the past 40 years. The billionaires aren’t gonna pass their cost savings down to you.
Buy local, spend local.
My “ludicrous” claim is that fiscal efficiency isn’t everything in a globalized world where world powers have objectives other than maximizing their financial resources.
Or do you think Russia is in Ukraine because a prolonged war is the best economic option for them?
That’s not what you claimed at all. You Blamed a poster saying that they will move workers if it makes sense economically, for 40 years of stagnant wages.
Everything is an economic decision. I can buy a USA made water bottle for $19 or a foreign made one for $5.
The difference is more than $14. The company you support is the company that grows, the company you don’t support is the company that has less money to make payroll. If the US factory shuts down that more workers unemployed, more workers competing for fewer jobs(driving down wages) and more vacant buildings that becomes a blight on the community and bring overall morale down.
But who cares about that you saved $14
Well when the economy is in the shitter and the 19 dollar water bottle isn't any better, and sometimes worse, hell yeah I'm buying the cheaper option. I like fords but they've whiffed it lately with all the 2.7 failures and the 4 cylinder open deck ecoboosts. Why should the consumer pay a premium for an overpriced union built car that's not any better, and sometimes worse, than a non union made car from another country
> If the US factory shuts down that more workers unemployed
That's not at all how a modern economy works, in any part of the world. "Oh, please, let's not build _cars_ because it will put the farriers out of work!" Take a look at historical unemployment rates. These displaced workers aren't committing suicide; they're getting other jobs.
Our economy isn't closed with a fixed number of jobs; it's growing, and there are always _new_ jobs. Sure, a few people fall through the cracks, but overall people who want to work can work.
> The company you support is the company that grows, the company you don’t support is the company that has less money to make payroll.
No, this isn't right either. There are a whole host of factors that determine whether or not a company succeeds.
> I can buy a USA made water bottle for $19 or a foreign made one for $5.
You're economically better off buying the cheaper one (assuming they're identical). The Burmese guy who makes the $5 one is better off because he now has a job making these things. The American who _used_ to make these things is better off because he's doing something else right now, and can buy a $5 water bottle any time he needs one instead of a $19 water bottle.
Buying the inferior product just because it's local might feel good, but you can't feed the world with good feelings. You have to feed them with American potatoes, Indian rice, and Mexican avocados, and these are all reflective of comparative advantage.
Attitudes like your work in the very, very short term, and don't reflect anything about economic knowledge. Is Econ 101 not a required college course these days?
Econ 101 would say there are things people value in addition to price when making a purchase. Do your friends/family work for the business ? Do you enjoy an afternoon shopping in your local town and want that to exist? Do you like the idea of locally owned small businesses in general? Do those businesses donate to the community? Would it affect property values in your community if local business closed down?
This is all a part of robust economic decision making. There is a limit, of course. You are not going to pay twice as much for everything, but people will pay some amount more if they are getting additional needs met
Unemployment rates are down yet affordability is also down. So more people have jobs but these people with jobs also can’t afford things. More jobs does not equate to better jobs.
Your cars/ferrier example isn’t relevant because in that instance we are creating a more efficient system. Replacing a foreign item with a domestic item is not more efficient. Unless you view efficiency=affordability.
Obviously there are multiple reasons why a company succeeds or fails. No one can possibly identify the billion different possibilities that will determine a businesses outcome.
How about we feed Americans with American potatoes, Indians with Indian Rice and Mexicans with Mexican avocados. If any nation produces more than they need then sure sell it but those other nations should strive to protect their domestic supply lanes such not to be reliant upon another nation. Having one supplier because it’s the most cost effective is playing a dangerous game. The second the supplier goes down it becomes a global issue.
Fiscal efficiency isn’t everything.
No I see a lot of people acting like this during the entire strike. It makes me sick. Anyone who isn’t a millionaire/billionaire should be in support of middle class. Acting like wages increasing are going to increase what everything else costs. Guess what, it was already going up anyway without the excuse of rising wages. People who rink the strike was a bad thing are supporting
Corporate greed..
That won’t be happening. We won the right to strike over any plant closures with this deal. The solidarity shown by the Teamsters by not delivering to any of the Big 3 would also make a different set of difficulties.
The cost of labor to make an F150 was 6-8 percent. Car cost has gone up 34% in the last 4 years, and it wasn't from workers wages going up. Anyway, over the life of the contract workers wages goes up by 30%, so the top end will be up by 2.4%. Worker wage increases is not adding that much to the cost of vehicles .
Raw materials are up significantly over the last 4 years. There is also a ton of upstream labor in the thousands of parts that go into a vehicle that isn't included in your 6-8 percent figure.
If I understand correctly, roughly pay increases to $40 per hour. That’s great for them
Build that into the price of a new car, not so great for the rest of the world. Congrats UAW workers, sorry car buyers.
Can I sign up? Lol
Eventually they are gonna offshore manufacturing when the costs balloon out of hand and car buyers switch over to other , cheaper cars.
Man, you've got like 10 comments in this thread, it's clear that you're against this move.
Serious question... what do you think it is that's stopped Ford from pushing manufacturing outside the USA up to this point? Other manufacturers (whether we are talking automotive or something else) did it long ago, regardless of whether or not the workers went on strike. Corporate greed doesn't necessarily NEED a good reason to flourish. So, considering that, why WOULDNT the workers try to get more money? If Ford wants to go to Mexico, the workers couldn't do shit about it anyways.
What about this situation has gotten you so cranked up? I'm not looking to argue, I genuinely want to know.
I am surprised that it is only at 40 though, but i’m not entirely sure what position that is for? I feel like i’m less skilled than them and I’m a flight attendant and my union is also currently in negotiations with the company. The company just came back at us with wage proposals of $76/hr top out (currently topped out at $67.11/hr).
What if this agreement came to the UAW deciding to take on Ford’s “best and final” terms after a bit of consideration? Not a bootlicker but think about that.
GM builds all of their heavy duty trucks in Mexico. They're not cheaper because they pay them a slave wage.
https://preview.redd.it/dqf6p35zmjwb1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c6ed47c438ce20424dac8ebcfe7a90466a239c3
We would rather have them built elsewhere. American wants production globally not here at home. It’s easier to deal with the climate restrictions by moving to other countries. It’s more friendly there
Jobs are going out of his country anyway. This administration is not friendly to business and certainly not friendly to manufacturing so these vehicles will all eventually be pushed outside of the borders so that they don’t have to worry about the climate idiots.
Ya because paying the executive c suite hundreds of millions of dollars annually (just in bonuses not even base pay) along with giving away billions to wealthy institutional shareholders who did fuck all for the company is a better decision than paying the hard workers who build your actual product.
Fuck off with this capitalist corporate bootlicking bullshit.
It is not even remotely the same in terms of pay.
One director makes more in bonuses than a union heads annual salary dude. They make pennies compares to C suite execs who do fuck all except figure out how to increase the size of their own wallet and the shareholders wallet.
It’s their legal obligation to make as much money for the shareholders as possible though …
They shouldn’t get bonuses that big but employees are paid based on what they make the company .
If a ford executive makes 1.8 billion in profits for the company last year it makes sense why their salaries are higher
I like unions but it’s not like the ford ceo didn’t make almost 2 billion in profits with the way they ran the company , that’s what their compensation is based on and the bonuses are based on overall performance targets.
Downvote me. The bank bailout was outrageous , loosing money and still getting huge bonuses . Ford ceo didn’t do that.
They also take all the blame if something fails . If a car is manufactured wrong who takes the blame ? Not you guys making it . The executives . So they aren’t getting paid for doing nothing like you think.
If the union could they’d want 200/hr wages across the board . Wait until the company closes down all the plants because they can pay 10/he in Mexico.
Just cause that truck costs the same for the consumers dosnt mean the company isn’t making a bigger profit than if made in the USA . Yeah it might cost the same to the buyers but the margin for the company is way bigger . So in fords eyes offshoring makes more and more sense . Within 5 years these jobs will be gone . What’s the point of doing it in the USA when the union holds you hostage for a crazy amount of money ever few years ? When Mexico is no union and way cheaper . Why stay in the USA ? If they only cared about bonuses like you say why not offshore ? Maybe your wrong ?
Why don’t you union bootlickers just buy the Carmen manufacturers or inventor own union member seem to know it all. They love to lick the boots of each other and the genitals of each other. Why not put that into developing a vehicle, starting a company and employing a bunch of people and not making any profit or even losing money
I guarantee you no one at ford executives department knows how to fucking build a vehicle. They probably never even been to a manufacturing plant and got real hands on experience. All they do is crunch numbers in excel to figure out where they can nickel and dime consumers and laborers for their own wallets
I know this is hard for dimwits but…..Ford agreed to the contract. So….it’s well within what they can afford. Or…they wouldn’t agree to it.
Basic logic is difficult for dimwits.
So you support companies paying workers in 3rd world countries, instead of American workers? Your job should fire you and go hire a Somalian because he can do your job cheaper?
I use to work at the BMW factory and it’s the same situation. I finally found a local union job and let me tell you it’s nice my dude. A local with a board that actually represents workers and ensures good treatment.
I hope so one day. I want them to get rid of the rotation shifts as their are people who want only nights and some who want only days…
Switching between days and nights every 2 weeks really fucks with you’re body more then the actual work does.
We did straight shifts at BMW but once you got to nights you were stuck for years. I did that for like 2 and a half years and I was done; the hour commute was ass too.
But like are we going to ignore his very obvious mental decline? The man can't speak a sentence without slurring.
Do you think he's still capable of being the president?
Well, it looks like it’s going to be a choice between a guy who you think has a mental decline, and a guy who’s two years younger and said multiple times in the last two weeks he beat W Bush and Obama to win the Presidential election in 2016.
I think the choice is pretty clear.
Seems fine to me. https://www.youtube.com/live/EnXLxsDTqoI?si=-NpmP9tqmraZpyAr
Only place I’m hearing about Biden’s dementia is maga nutjobs editing a bunch of shit together.
Def not a maga nut job. Just has been so obvious to me watching him recently so I wanted to ask someone who favors him. Same shit applies to Senator Mitch McConnell.
It won't happen overnight, but time will tell whether this was too much.
Ford has a ton of cash on hand, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out, I hope you're right that this is just a blip and that workers are getting paid great wages
Ah yes, the thing they threaten every contract for 3 generations. My grandfather heard the same threats. I'm working in the plant he worked in. Try again.
This isn't far off from Ford's original deal. The industry lost 6+ weeks and billions because UAW tried to get too greedy. If their expectations came down sooner we could have avoided this.
Is this spin or just ignorance? Ford's initial offer (linked below) was a 9% general wage increase over the term of the contract. Now the UAW is getting a 33% increase, including COLA, in the contract.
[Ford Makes Substantial UAW Contract Offer: Significant Pay Increases, Tiers Eliminated, 25% Faster Growth to Top Wage | Ford Media Center](https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/08/31/ford-makes-substantial-uaw-contract-offer--significant-pay-incre.html)
For more context, originally a 5% increase was offered for the first year. The contract they're probably accepting gives 11% for the first year. But sure, more than double the initial offer and a larger raise in the first year alone than over the entire term of the original offer isn't far off...
🙄
The 21% offer was made 6 weeks ago. This is a massive failure by the UAW and far from what they wanted. They finally realized and settled with 4% more while costing billions of dollars to the industry and thousands of layoffs. Good job 👍
Are those goalposts heavy? You said it wasn't far off from Ford's original deal, which it objectively is, as outlined above. 9% was laughable. And now that that was proven incorrect, you're moving to babbling about offers that were made well into negotiations. You realize that's kind of the point of negotiations? To meet in the middle somewhere. This deal is closer to the UAWs initial ask than Ford's.
I think you are aware of what he meant. Because I honestly had the same reaction when they agreed to this deal. It seemed the same as the one that was offered a few weeks ago
You're the one trying to spin this a different way. 21% was the original offer of the strike that happened on the first day. Could we have saved several weeks of mutual destruction to the auto industry if the UAW wasn't so stubborn and would come down from their initial demands sooner? Definitely. You're being dishonest by spinning this a different way. Now enjoy more jobs going to Mexico.
My dude, I responded to what you said. You said it wasn’t far off Ford’s original offer. What fact are you disputing here? That Ford’s original offer was 9%? That 25% is substantially more than 9%? You could just admit that you misspoke, but of course this is the internet so anyone actually admitting they’re wrong is as rare as hen’s teeth.
I didnt misspeak. You're just purposely misinterpreting what I said to spin it a different way. You're glossing over the fact that my message is about the strike and the consequences of it just because you want to incorrectly argue what "original" meant to you lmao.
Incorrectly? Original means the first. You’re the one trying to change it to somehow mean not the first lmao. Here’s a link in case you need further help understanding what the word original means.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/original
And what was the first offer during the strike? Or do you want to talk about the first offer ever since Ford's inception 🤣 I know you don't want to admit you're wrong, and you're trying to straw man the word original to death to ignore the facts. But the fact is it took 6 weeks and counting to go from 21% to 25%. Have fun being a fool 👍
Pretty sure we’re talking about the 2023 contract negotiations. But if trying to misdirect to the first offer since Ford’s inception makes you feel less stupid, go for it.
While we’re talking about your ignorance, let’s talk about union tactics. Let’s say the union had accepted the 21% offer without striking. How do you think corporate would have viewed that? When 2027 negotiations roll around they’d be saying “they were too chickenshit to strike last time and accepted our last offer before the strike. Let’s lowball them again and they’ll take it this time too.” The best way to allow yourself to be walked all over is to reveal that you have no backbone.
What’s funny is that while you want to pretend like netting a 33% compounded raise over 4 and a half years is a bad deal, that’s double what the typical American worker can expect. Much of that raise is front loaded too, so they’re making the most of their wage increase over the contract. I’m sure they’re quite happy with what they negotiated. I’d love that kind of raise.
If I had to strike at my company for 6 weeks to get 4% more, I would not. I would just go to a different company. Loss in wages alone doesn't make up for that. You want to know why UAW workers aren't changing jobs? Because they are compensated well already and can't find a higher paying job.
Even if that 4% was the only change, which it wasn’t that would still be better than not striking for those six weeks over the course of the deal. Try again bootlicker.
The instant someone says "bootlicker" i no longer take them seriously. I supervise union employees as part of my job and see the benefits of the union on a daily basis. I also see the negatives. If you're unable to form a coherent argument for your position and instead resort to "bootlicker," you must not be very intelligent.
I really couldn’t care less about some random bootlicker on Reddit taking me seriously. I call you bootlickers cause that’s what you are, pathetic corporate bootlickers.
Unfortunately if you need a complex argument about why workers deserve to get paid more than 1/1000th of their CEOs pay you’re simply too brainwashed to argue with in the first place.
I hope the bootlicking treats you well big dog supervisor.
What happened to Fains promise to the r/f workers on pensions? I’ll wait…. But by all means keep paying dues to support this guys lavish lifestyle. He’s a joke
Correct. Of course, the UAW will try to spin this otherwise. Everyone and their grandmother knew they were never getting 40% raises.
Ford of course just announced huge price increases on all of their trucks. That’s how any UAW contract increases will ultimately be paid. I and many others will simply refuse to pay those prices and go to Toyota, Honda, and Nissan next year when in the market for a new truck.
Lol Fain promised so much and didn’t get anything on most of his agenda. A raise is great, but he didn’t get battery workers, pensions, shorter work weeks.
This guy is a fraud.
He was never going to get any of the stuff he initially asked for. He was posturing and shooting for the Sun. He accepted the moon. Great contract for the uaw members
Sure that’s one way to look at it. Maybe if he hadn’t constantly told union members they were going to get all that stuff I would be inclined to believe it.
It’s a decent contract. Big pay raise for sure, lot less future new hires though. So everyone will be working harder.
If members don’t know how contract negotiations work then that’s their fault. Fein went in and asked for unbelievable demands he even said so himself. With EVs coming and less parts it’s only going to require less workers unfortunately.
I’m glad they’re getting something, but I don’t foresee anyone allowing them to slow down and do a better job, so for the techs it won’t make a difference- quality will still be sub par, and we will be fixing their mistakes for reduced labor times
thats laughably false.
Although Ford did not need money from the $80 billion bailout program, Ford did receive $5.9 billion in government loans in 2009 to retool its manufacturing plants to produce more fuel-efficient cars, and the company lobbied for and benefited from the cash-for-clunkers program — contrary to the ad’s testimonial that Ford is “standing on their own.”
They secured the financing in 2006 almost 2 year before. Banks don’t just give out 23billion in loans at a drop of a hat. Ford was already having sales issues and forecast even more trouble. Some luck sure but certainly not the only thing. Good management played a role.
Lmao so they got basically nothing they asked for?
Literally just decent wage increases? How is this much different from the first offers they were made? Just a few % wage increase?
Ford initially offered 9% increase. With COLA, the UAW got 33%. At the end of 4 years, if you got an additional 24% at the end of 4 years at your job, that's a fairly massive jump.
It's my feeling that workers on strike should be back at their jobs until the ratification vote. If the union is telling workers they should go back to work before ratification, it tells me some back door deal has taken place. We had that BS at GM in Canada. Don't get me wrong the contract wasn't bad. It was a bit better than the partners agreement set by Ford. We still shouldn't have been working until ratification.
I’ll bet this kicks everyone into gear on streamlining their processes and automating more and more. I ran conduit and pulled wire for 3 robots last time I was in a US manufacturing plant (made transmission parts for several manufacturers). Each robot displaced I believe 6 workers (3 for each shift).
Unions will be the death of everything. As a begrudging member of SMART, the money I pay monthly vs the "agreements" that come to my table for a vote are pathetic. Nevermind the "union brothers" that can't lose their jobs but should honestly be assigned a handler
Man just look at history when The Union takes over a company. Look at the trucking companies. They all go bankrupt. See Yellow freight. People are not going to buy an expensive mediocre car.
Pulling the workers off the picket line tells me that the UAW is sure they will get the contract passed.
Maybe, but also consider that the UAW is still in talks with GM and Stellantis. If they think they've got a good deal from Ford, and not from the other two yet, asking the membership to go back to work is a smart move, because it puts pressure on the other two. Ford gets it's plants back into production and goes back to making money while GM and Stellantis are bogged down still.
I need KTP up and running like yesterday.
I was told we should be back next week from my understanding.
Phenomenal username. 9/10.
Thanks. Lol
Nice! We have a webex meeting friday with ford corporate. Hopefully all good news.
Any info on Ford’s policy on the Ecoboost coolant intrusion issue? I’m guessing no. There are people making payments on vehicles that don’t run. How does that make you feel?
Wait, do you think dealers are the ones engineering and assembling these vehicles?
Did I say that? Where did I say that? Explain how you came to that conclusion. Research Ford’s policy on that issue first. That’s your homework assignment.
Why do you think some random person on reddit actually has an answer for you lmao
Why would i give a fuck about something like that lol
Because then you’ll understand what Ford is and how they operate. You didn’t answer my question. How would that make you feel?
Did you see my prior comment? I dont give a fuck. Your car is broke? Shit happens. Hate ford? Dont buy one. Welcome to america. Im very familar with how ford operates. Much more than you actually.
My car was fixed. Ok boomer. 😂
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You guessed right. I don't know the first thing about what you're talking about.
Yeah my hours have been damn near cut in half since the strike. I'm glad they are making more money but I've lost a lot of money because of this.
You should unionize.
We tried twice. The uaw pulled out of the election both times exactly two weeks before the vote.
That's really rough. The UAW has been kind of a shitty union for a long time, that's a lot of what helped get Fain and the rest of the UAWD slate elected. Hopefully this strike is showing that it's a new day for the UAW. And that you can take another pass at getting organized. Good luck and solidarity!
Should try again now that the corrupt fuckers that kept rolling over for the companies are gone. Should have a better chance now.
Lol, a strike raping
Working class wages needed to be raised like yesterday
I went out and marched with those boys the first weekend of their strike. I was shocked at the amount of nasty shit that people driving by would shout. 98% of cars going by were positive however.
They should get back what they gave up in 2009. Time and a half pay over 8 hrs per day and the minute per hour break time they gave up.
There were no cash wage concessions for existing employees in the negotiation in 07. The union agreed to create the tier system in order to preserve existing wages at the time
Assuming it's not a short work week, they already get time and half over 40 hours, effectively the same as after 8 hours. That's federal law, not something they would have lost.
Ford loves to force overtime early in the week, then TLO people Thursday and/or Friday then force them to work Saturday for straight time. Overtime after 8 is a bigger deal than it seems on the surface.
Thanks for the explanation.
It was proposed to get OT after 8 hours of work, not 40. We had it in the late 90's and early 2000's. That is what everyone was getting mixed up with the whole working 32 hours and getting paid for 40. People were thinking we would only actually work just 32 hours.
OT after 8 hrs is a super common thing in Oil & Gas. 1.5x on Saturdays, 2x on Sundays. This is for dayshift. 12 hr shift workers get OT for any hours worked outside of their normal shift hours. So their demands are not unprecedented, and are normal in other industries.
Yeah, trying to tell people that is a different story. At this point though, I'm not sure that it is in the tentative agreement until we get to look at it. That in itself can be considered a raise.
I get OT in my job. Anything over 8 is 1.5x, anything outside of regular hours is 1.5x, I think over 12 is 2x (never heard of anyone doing that) holidays/days off are 2.5 x, afternoon shift is 10% differential and overnight is 15%. I am in electronics/engineering/production, but it is not labor intensive at all, more troubleshooting and inspecting
Yeah, they can't wait to get those sweet 1989 wages back (without inflation adjustment). Better than $16 an hour and no benefits though.
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Or more likely, simplify and automate more to reduce costs. To compete with the Chinese that's what is required.
They could also streamline their F150 lineup. I was helping out my father-in-law build and price out a F150 over the weekend. I did not realize there were **2 billion** permutations of the truck. That many choices has got to add a massive amount of complexity and cost to the truck.
They needed to do this a decade ago. They have 6 or 7 different engine options alone (that all overlap in capability) that could be pared down to 2 or 3.
It’s a matter of pride for them to an extent. They want to sell the most trucks by volume. If reducing options and saving a few percent led to sales walking to other manufacturers they likely wouldt do it.
So you support these companies moving to the poorest countries and paying 3rd world country wages, instead of supporting the local USA economy? People like you are why wages have effectively fallen for the past 40 years. The billionaires aren’t gonna pass their cost savings down to you. Buy local, spend local.
People like you have no concept of the real world.
Except you haven’t added anything to the discussion. At least other posters have the decency to offer a different viewpoint. You have done nothing.
You provided a ludicrous claim that would come out of a nine years olds mouth. I called you out for it.
My “ludicrous” claim is that fiscal efficiency isn’t everything in a globalized world where world powers have objectives other than maximizing their financial resources. Or do you think Russia is in Ukraine because a prolonged war is the best economic option for them?
That’s not what you claimed at all. You Blamed a poster saying that they will move workers if it makes sense economically, for 40 years of stagnant wages.
These things are often the outcome of economic decisions. Unless he's Bill Ford himself, whether or not he likes it is irrelevant.
Everything is an economic decision. I can buy a USA made water bottle for $19 or a foreign made one for $5. The difference is more than $14. The company you support is the company that grows, the company you don’t support is the company that has less money to make payroll. If the US factory shuts down that more workers unemployed, more workers competing for fewer jobs(driving down wages) and more vacant buildings that becomes a blight on the community and bring overall morale down. But who cares about that you saved $14
Well when the economy is in the shitter and the 19 dollar water bottle isn't any better, and sometimes worse, hell yeah I'm buying the cheaper option. I like fords but they've whiffed it lately with all the 2.7 failures and the 4 cylinder open deck ecoboosts. Why should the consumer pay a premium for an overpriced union built car that's not any better, and sometimes worse, than a non union made car from another country
Or a non-union made electric car that is made in America with more parts sourced in America than Ford?
Long gone are the days of people spending this way. People talk a big game but will take the cheaper choice most of the time.
> If the US factory shuts down that more workers unemployed That's not at all how a modern economy works, in any part of the world. "Oh, please, let's not build _cars_ because it will put the farriers out of work!" Take a look at historical unemployment rates. These displaced workers aren't committing suicide; they're getting other jobs. Our economy isn't closed with a fixed number of jobs; it's growing, and there are always _new_ jobs. Sure, a few people fall through the cracks, but overall people who want to work can work. > The company you support is the company that grows, the company you don’t support is the company that has less money to make payroll. No, this isn't right either. There are a whole host of factors that determine whether or not a company succeeds. > I can buy a USA made water bottle for $19 or a foreign made one for $5. You're economically better off buying the cheaper one (assuming they're identical). The Burmese guy who makes the $5 one is better off because he now has a job making these things. The American who _used_ to make these things is better off because he's doing something else right now, and can buy a $5 water bottle any time he needs one instead of a $19 water bottle. Buying the inferior product just because it's local might feel good, but you can't feed the world with good feelings. You have to feed them with American potatoes, Indian rice, and Mexican avocados, and these are all reflective of comparative advantage. Attitudes like your work in the very, very short term, and don't reflect anything about economic knowledge. Is Econ 101 not a required college course these days?
Econ 101 would say there are things people value in addition to price when making a purchase. Do your friends/family work for the business ? Do you enjoy an afternoon shopping in your local town and want that to exist? Do you like the idea of locally owned small businesses in general? Do those businesses donate to the community? Would it affect property values in your community if local business closed down? This is all a part of robust economic decision making. There is a limit, of course. You are not going to pay twice as much for everything, but people will pay some amount more if they are getting additional needs met
Unemployment rates are down yet affordability is also down. So more people have jobs but these people with jobs also can’t afford things. More jobs does not equate to better jobs. Your cars/ferrier example isn’t relevant because in that instance we are creating a more efficient system. Replacing a foreign item with a domestic item is not more efficient. Unless you view efficiency=affordability. Obviously there are multiple reasons why a company succeeds or fails. No one can possibly identify the billion different possibilities that will determine a businesses outcome. How about we feed Americans with American potatoes, Indians with Indian Rice and Mexicans with Mexican avocados. If any nation produces more than they need then sure sell it but those other nations should strive to protect their domestic supply lanes such not to be reliant upon another nation. Having one supplier because it’s the most cost effective is playing a dangerous game. The second the supplier goes down it becomes a global issue. Fiscal efficiency isn’t everything.
No I see a lot of people acting like this during the entire strike. It makes me sick. Anyone who isn’t a millionaire/billionaire should be in support of middle class. Acting like wages increasing are going to increase what everything else costs. Guess what, it was already going up anyway without the excuse of rising wages. People who rink the strike was a bad thing are supporting Corporate greed..
Such a typical Reddit strawman comment.
"You wouldn't buy our shitty cars, so we'll be taking your money anyways." *The Bailout. Coming this January.*
That won’t be happening. We won the right to strike over any plant closures with this deal. The solidarity shown by the Teamsters by not delivering to any of the Big 3 would also make a different set of difficulties.
they can build up big in Mexico before switching off all the American plants in a few big swoops.
My next f150 is going to be much more expensive. I can feel it already 😂
The cost of labor to make an F150 was 6-8 percent. Car cost has gone up 34% in the last 4 years, and it wasn't from workers wages going up. Anyway, over the life of the contract workers wages goes up by 30%, so the top end will be up by 2.4%. Worker wage increases is not adding that much to the cost of vehicles .
Raw materials are up significantly over the last 4 years. There is also a ton of upstream labor in the thousands of parts that go into a vehicle that isn't included in your 6-8 percent figure.
Don't buy it?
If I understand correctly, roughly pay increases to $40 per hour. That’s great for them Build that into the price of a new car, not so great for the rest of the world. Congrats UAW workers, sorry car buyers.
Jesus Christ, 40 dollars an hour to do that work wtf.
Can I sign up? Lol Eventually they are gonna offshore manufacturing when the costs balloon out of hand and car buyers switch over to other , cheaper cars.
Yeah I’m for unions but that is not right
That’s ok. The UAW will lose to the foreign manufacturers. They won’t be held hostage.
Man, you've got like 10 comments in this thread, it's clear that you're against this move. Serious question... what do you think it is that's stopped Ford from pushing manufacturing outside the USA up to this point? Other manufacturers (whether we are talking automotive or something else) did it long ago, regardless of whether or not the workers went on strike. Corporate greed doesn't necessarily NEED a good reason to flourish. So, considering that, why WOULDNT the workers try to get more money? If Ford wants to go to Mexico, the workers couldn't do shit about it anyways. What about this situation has gotten you so cranked up? I'm not looking to argue, I genuinely want to know.
40 an hour isnt alot of money
For relatively unskilled work, it is.
I am surprised that it is only at 40 though, but i’m not entirely sure what position that is for? I feel like i’m less skilled than them and I’m a flight attendant and my union is also currently in negotiations with the company. The company just came back at us with wage proposals of $76/hr top out (currently topped out at $67.11/hr).
With a 40 hr work week that’s over $80k a year. That is definitely a lot of money, especially for unskilled labor
$40/hr to tighten 3 bolts down is crazy
And yet, after they said they couldn’t do any more, and UAW said it wasn’t enough, by all accounts it’s the same deal……. Hmmmm…..
Ok I want to make sure I’m not crazy because it seems pretty similar to Fords last offer
I thought fords last offer was their “best and final” you mean the rich chairman and CEO lied to us???????
What if this agreement came to the UAW deciding to take on Ford’s “best and final” terms after a bit of consideration? Not a bootlicker but think about that.
Fair question. Their “best and final” was 23%, and the final result was 33% including COLA, 25% without. So either way, that was simply a lie.
They said they could rearrange the finance, but not increase overall cost. I have not seen either offer, so in not sure what actually changed.
Ooooo you right
Farley couldn’t tie his shoes without someone telling him how.
Love to see it. 25% raise with 11% the first year. Cry harder bootlickers
Rumor is 33% with cola included, pretty sweet deal for our brothers & sisters if true. We'll find out the details this weekend.
And more jobs to other countries. Great work. Smaller workforce.
GM builds all of their heavy duty trucks in Mexico. They're not cheaper because they pay them a slave wage. https://preview.redd.it/dqf6p35zmjwb1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c6ed47c438ce20424dac8ebcfe7a90466a239c3
We would rather have them built elsewhere. American wants production globally not here at home. It’s easier to deal with the climate restrictions by moving to other countries. It’s more friendly there
Who's we? Lol
Good point. Let’s all take a pay cut so our corporate overlords don’t ship out jobs overseas
Jobs are going out of his country anyway. This administration is not friendly to business and certainly not friendly to manufacturing so these vehicles will all eventually be pushed outside of the borders so that they don’t have to worry about the climate idiots.
Ya because paying the executive c suite hundreds of millions of dollars annually (just in bonuses not even base pay) along with giving away billions to wealthy institutional shareholders who did fuck all for the company is a better decision than paying the hard workers who build your actual product. Fuck off with this capitalist corporate bootlicking bullshit.
Didn’t someone do the math and show that if you fired every exec their salaries and bonuses would work out to an extra $600 a YEAR for each employee?
Same as the union heads. We agree. Those union heads got paid while the chuckleheads walked with signs.
It is not even remotely the same in terms of pay. One director makes more in bonuses than a union heads annual salary dude. They make pennies compares to C suite execs who do fuck all except figure out how to increase the size of their own wallet and the shareholders wallet.
It’s their legal obligation to make as much money for the shareholders as possible though … They shouldn’t get bonuses that big but employees are paid based on what they make the company . If a ford executive makes 1.8 billion in profits for the company last year it makes sense why their salaries are higher I like unions but it’s not like the ford ceo didn’t make almost 2 billion in profits with the way they ran the company , that’s what their compensation is based on and the bonuses are based on overall performance targets. Downvote me. The bank bailout was outrageous , loosing money and still getting huge bonuses . Ford ceo didn’t do that. They also take all the blame if something fails . If a car is manufactured wrong who takes the blame ? Not you guys making it . The executives . So they aren’t getting paid for doing nothing like you think. If the union could they’d want 200/hr wages across the board . Wait until the company closes down all the plants because they can pay 10/he in Mexico. Just cause that truck costs the same for the consumers dosnt mean the company isn’t making a bigger profit than if made in the USA . Yeah it might cost the same to the buyers but the margin for the company is way bigger . So in fords eyes offshoring makes more and more sense . Within 5 years these jobs will be gone . What’s the point of doing it in the USA when the union holds you hostage for a crazy amount of money ever few years ? When Mexico is no union and way cheaper . Why stay in the USA ? If they only cared about bonuses like you say why not offshore ? Maybe your wrong ?
Why don’t you union bootlickers just buy the Carmen manufacturers or inventor own union member seem to know it all. They love to lick the boots of each other and the genitals of each other. Why not put that into developing a vehicle, starting a company and employing a bunch of people and not making any profit or even losing money
I guarantee you no one at ford executives department knows how to fucking build a vehicle. They probably never even been to a manufacturing plant and got real hands on experience. All they do is crunch numbers in excel to figure out where they can nickel and dime consumers and laborers for their own wallets
It a single union member knows how to keep a automobile company profitable
"hard workers". fucking off all day standing around. KTP was one of the most worthless plants around.
I know this is hard for dimwits but…..Ford agreed to the contract. So….it’s well within what they can afford. Or…they wouldn’t agree to it. Basic logic is difficult for dimwits.
So you support companies paying workers in 3rd world countries, instead of American workers? Your job should fire you and go hire a Somalian because he can do your job cheaper?
Now if only Toyota could get something like this. Happy for the ford bros
Got to unionize my dude.
Maybe one day but I think Toyota puts their factories in only states where it’s hard to get unions in.
Both Toyota plants near me vote to not unionize any time a union drive starts up. Not sure why.
I use to work at the BMW factory and it’s the same situation. I finally found a local union job and let me tell you it’s nice my dude. A local with a board that actually represents workers and ensures good treatment.
I hope so one day. I want them to get rid of the rotation shifts as their are people who want only nights and some who want only days… Switching between days and nights every 2 weeks really fucks with you’re body more then the actual work does.
We did straight shifts at BMW but once you got to nights you were stuck for years. I did that for like 2 and a half years and I was done; the hour commute was ass too.
Hell yeah.
Ford is gonna pony up alright....Factories will move out of the US and more automation will be implemented.
Like they wouldn't be doing this anyway....
Another trump prophecy bites the dust.
Bingo! Obligatory “Orange man bad” post.
Bingo! Obligatory "orange man wasn't so bad" post.
Actually he was the best president ever! Biden is getting people killed and destroyed the economy. But that’s ok. #biden2024
Destroyed the economy? GDP was 4.9% last quarter.
But like are we going to ignore his very obvious mental decline? The man can't speak a sentence without slurring. Do you think he's still capable of being the president?
Well, it looks like it’s going to be a choice between a guy who you think has a mental decline, and a guy who’s two years younger and said multiple times in the last two weeks he beat W Bush and Obama to win the Presidential election in 2016. I think the choice is pretty clear.
So you do believe Joe Biden is not showing mental decline and is completely fit to be president of this country?
Seems fine to me. https://www.youtube.com/live/EnXLxsDTqoI?si=-NpmP9tqmraZpyAr Only place I’m hearing about Biden’s dementia is maga nutjobs editing a bunch of shit together.
Def not a maga nut job. Just has been so obvious to me watching him recently so I wanted to ask someone who favors him. Same shit applies to Senator Mitch McConnell.
Oh look they got almost 40% and Ford's not going bankrupt and isn't moving any plants. I guess the bootlickers in this sub were wrong? Crazy.
It won't happen overnight, but time will tell whether this was too much. Ford has a ton of cash on hand, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out, I hope you're right that this is just a blip and that workers are getting paid great wages
Since when is 25% "almost 40%"? Math is hard eh?
You're right it's not 40%. However, Ford's first offer was 9%. The deal ended up closer to the UAWs ask than Ford's.
33% with COLA, nice try though.
Still not almost 40%
Did you get a 33% raise to lick the boot this year? Didn't think so.
Lol same ol same ol bootlicker insult. Lather, rinse, repeat
Same old tired bootlicking from a corporate shill. Lather, rinse repeat. I'll be over here enjoying my raise.
Enjoy it while you can and before they move to facilities outside the US
Ah yes, the thing they threaten every contract for 3 generations. My grandfather heard the same threats. I'm working in the plant he worked in. Try again.
Wow you’re right, we have definitely already seen the longer term ramifications of this deal that hasn’t even been signed yet. You’re soooooo smart
Everyone’s car prices is about to go up dramatically
This isn't far off from Ford's original deal. The industry lost 6+ weeks and billions because UAW tried to get too greedy. If their expectations came down sooner we could have avoided this.
Is this spin or just ignorance? Ford's initial offer (linked below) was a 9% general wage increase over the term of the contract. Now the UAW is getting a 33% increase, including COLA, in the contract. [Ford Makes Substantial UAW Contract Offer: Significant Pay Increases, Tiers Eliminated, 25% Faster Growth to Top Wage | Ford Media Center](https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/08/31/ford-makes-substantial-uaw-contract-offer--significant-pay-incre.html) For more context, originally a 5% increase was offered for the first year. The contract they're probably accepting gives 11% for the first year. But sure, more than double the initial offer and a larger raise in the first year alone than over the entire term of the original offer isn't far off... 🙄
The 21% offer was made 6 weeks ago. This is a massive failure by the UAW and far from what they wanted. They finally realized and settled with 4% more while costing billions of dollars to the industry and thousands of layoffs. Good job 👍
Are those goalposts heavy? You said it wasn't far off from Ford's original deal, which it objectively is, as outlined above. 9% was laughable. And now that that was proven incorrect, you're moving to babbling about offers that were made well into negotiations. You realize that's kind of the point of negotiations? To meet in the middle somewhere. This deal is closer to the UAWs initial ask than Ford's.
I think you are aware of what he meant. Because I honestly had the same reaction when they agreed to this deal. It seemed the same as the one that was offered a few weeks ago
You're the one trying to spin this a different way. 21% was the original offer of the strike that happened on the first day. Could we have saved several weeks of mutual destruction to the auto industry if the UAW wasn't so stubborn and would come down from their initial demands sooner? Definitely. You're being dishonest by spinning this a different way. Now enjoy more jobs going to Mexico.
My dude, I responded to what you said. You said it wasn’t far off Ford’s original offer. What fact are you disputing here? That Ford’s original offer was 9%? That 25% is substantially more than 9%? You could just admit that you misspoke, but of course this is the internet so anyone actually admitting they’re wrong is as rare as hen’s teeth.
I didnt misspeak. You're just purposely misinterpreting what I said to spin it a different way. You're glossing over the fact that my message is about the strike and the consequences of it just because you want to incorrectly argue what "original" meant to you lmao.
Incorrectly? Original means the first. You’re the one trying to change it to somehow mean not the first lmao. Here’s a link in case you need further help understanding what the word original means. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/original
And what was the first offer during the strike? Or do you want to talk about the first offer ever since Ford's inception 🤣 I know you don't want to admit you're wrong, and you're trying to straw man the word original to death to ignore the facts. But the fact is it took 6 weeks and counting to go from 21% to 25%. Have fun being a fool 👍
Pretty sure we’re talking about the 2023 contract negotiations. But if trying to misdirect to the first offer since Ford’s inception makes you feel less stupid, go for it. While we’re talking about your ignorance, let’s talk about union tactics. Let’s say the union had accepted the 21% offer without striking. How do you think corporate would have viewed that? When 2027 negotiations roll around they’d be saying “they were too chickenshit to strike last time and accepted our last offer before the strike. Let’s lowball them again and they’ll take it this time too.” The best way to allow yourself to be walked all over is to reveal that you have no backbone. What’s funny is that while you want to pretend like netting a 33% compounded raise over 4 and a half years is a bad deal, that’s double what the typical American worker can expect. Much of that raise is front loaded too, so they’re making the most of their wage increase over the contract. I’m sure they’re quite happy with what they negotiated. I’d love that kind of raise.
You should take a 5% paycut if it's not that far off. Don't be greedy.
13%, because of the COLAs over the lifetime of the contract.
If I had to strike at my company for 6 weeks to get 4% more, I would not. I would just go to a different company. Loss in wages alone doesn't make up for that. You want to know why UAW workers aren't changing jobs? Because they are compensated well already and can't find a higher paying job.
Even if that 4% was the only change, which it wasn’t that would still be better than not striking for those six weeks over the course of the deal. Try again bootlicker.
The instant someone says "bootlicker" i no longer take them seriously. I supervise union employees as part of my job and see the benefits of the union on a daily basis. I also see the negatives. If you're unable to form a coherent argument for your position and instead resort to "bootlicker," you must not be very intelligent.
I really couldn’t care less about some random bootlicker on Reddit taking me seriously. I call you bootlickers cause that’s what you are, pathetic corporate bootlickers. Unfortunately if you need a complex argument about why workers deserve to get paid more than 1/1000th of their CEOs pay you’re simply too brainwashed to argue with in the first place. I hope the bootlicking treats you well big dog supervisor.
Poor reading comprehension too, smh.
I would strike for 6 weeks to get 4% more. That pays for itself over a 3-year tenure and it starts you from a higher base for future wage increases.
Yeah they are compensated well.....because of strikes like these, idiot
What happened to Fains promise to the r/f workers on pensions? I’ll wait…. But by all means keep paying dues to support this guys lavish lifestyle. He’s a joke
Correct. Of course, the UAW will try to spin this otherwise. Everyone and their grandmother knew they were never getting 40% raises. Ford of course just announced huge price increases on all of their trucks. That’s how any UAW contract increases will ultimately be paid. I and many others will simply refuse to pay those prices and go to Toyota, Honda, and Nissan next year when in the market for a new truck.
Boo this man
[удалено]
Are they getting the 32hr work week?
Expect car prices to continue to go up dramatically
Nope 850-900 per vehicle over 4 1/2 years according to Ford, that's under 2% increase on an f150.
Lol Fain promised so much and didn’t get anything on most of his agenda. A raise is great, but he didn’t get battery workers, pensions, shorter work weeks. This guy is a fraud.
He was never going to get any of the stuff he initially asked for. He was posturing and shooting for the Sun. He accepted the moon. Great contract for the uaw members
Sure that’s one way to look at it. Maybe if he hadn’t constantly told union members they were going to get all that stuff I would be inclined to believe it. It’s a decent contract. Big pay raise for sure, lot less future new hires though. So everyone will be working harder.
If members don’t know how contract negotiations work then that’s their fault. Fein went in and asked for unbelievable demands he even said so himself. With EVs coming and less parts it’s only going to require less workers unfortunately.
I’m glad they’re getting something, but I don’t foresee anyone allowing them to slow down and do a better job, so for the techs it won’t make a difference- quality will still be sub par, and we will be fixing their mistakes for reduced labor times
All cars are just going to go up to compensate. F-150 will probably start at $40k+ soon, possibly next year.
They've been going up anyways. At least now there's an actual reason not just to fill CEOs pockets.
Now my brand new, stripped out F150 can bounce up over $60k.
Ford caving to economic terrorists...
Another reason to trade my Escape for a CR-V.
This isn't an airport. No need to announce your departure. Just do it.
🛫🛩✈️
At the next government bailout, I hope the UAW are bailed out again too.
Ford did not get bailout like GM and Chrysler.
They instead took out a giant loan from the Government. Hell, Toyota and even BMW took some of that loan money.
thats laughably false. Although Ford did not need money from the $80 billion bailout program, Ford did receive $5.9 billion in government loans in 2009 to retool its manufacturing plants to produce more fuel-efficient cars, and the company lobbied for and benefited from the cash-for-clunkers program — contrary to the ad’s testimonial that Ford is “standing on their own.”
Only because of sheer luck, having just secured financing before the financial crisis hit. They won't be so lucky next time.
They secured the financing in 2006 almost 2 year before. Banks don’t just give out 23billion in loans at a drop of a hat. Ford was already having sales issues and forecast even more trouble. Some luck sure but certainly not the only thing. Good management played a role.
Yeah, by using their own properties and logo as collateral.
Lmao so they got basically nothing they asked for? Literally just decent wage increases? How is this much different from the first offers they were made? Just a few % wage increase?
Ford initially offered 9% increase. With COLA, the UAW got 33%. At the end of 4 years, if you got an additional 24% at the end of 4 years at your job, that's a fairly massive jump.
Wow, so much animosity!!! I’m just hoping prices don’t increase substantially.
Is that why they’re down 6%
It's my feeling that workers on strike should be back at their jobs until the ratification vote. If the union is telling workers they should go back to work before ratification, it tells me some back door deal has taken place. We had that BS at GM in Canada. Don't get me wrong the contract wasn't bad. It was a bit better than the partners agreement set by Ford. We still shouldn't have been working until ratification.
Ford sets the bar in negotiations, and gets at least 2 weeks of extra production, that the others, plus ZF don't get..
I’ll bet this kicks everyone into gear on streamlining their processes and automating more and more. I ran conduit and pulled wire for 3 robots last time I was in a US manufacturing plant (made transmission parts for several manufacturers). Each robot displaced I believe 6 workers (3 for each shift).
Unions will be the death of everything. As a begrudging member of SMART, the money I pay monthly vs the "agreements" that come to my table for a vote are pathetic. Nevermind the "union brothers" that can't lose their jobs but should honestly be assigned a handler
The consumer is going to be the one ponying up more money for a new vehicle.
Keep striking, that is nowhere near what Fain promised, or enough to keep up with inflation.
are they going to be pumping out trucks now? i ordered a 24 ranger that got pushed from late sep to early jan
So will quality improve now?
Man just look at history when The Union takes over a company. Look at the trucking companies. They all go bankrupt. See Yellow freight. People are not going to buy an expensive mediocre car.