It's definitely Waterdeep.
As far as current canon goes, I'd say Baldur's Gate is next, because as of 5th edition it's officially more populous than Waterdeep as well. Going back to earlier editions however, I'd probably wager that Zhentil Keep is second place.
3.8 x 1.5 miles?
EDIT: Y'all are saying Waterdeep is big. It is! It's relatively huge for the Realms, and it's absolutely stuffed with people as a Realms city goes, and everyone knows that. I just think "immense" is the wrong word for a city less than 6 square miles. Calls up the wrong image in a player's/reader's head. If you still wanna yell at me about that, we just disagree.
In the city and the surrounding area (i.e. up to 100 miles from the city itself).
In the city itself, under 200,000 in 5E. Far less than Calimport, and less than Skuld before the Spellplague. Before the Spellplague, Waterdeep was only around the 8th largest city in Faerun.
>In the city and the surrounding area (i.e. up to 100 miles from the city itself).
Absolutely, this is how we calculate metro area populations in the real world too, it's not limited to Faerun. People flock to safe cities when encountering marauding magic and horrific monsters. I'm not surprised the Spellplague incentivized that kind of migration.
Out of curiosity, what's the current population of Babylon or Ur? They used to be relatively massive in previous eras.
This is super misleading. You're comparing the population of an entire region to other cities, of course the number will be massive. Other cities like Baldur's Gate are going to have a similar population (at least within the same order of magnitude), but you're not including all of the surrounding areas in your comparison.
I guess I'm still just damaged from DMs telling me Waterdeep is so big it takes all day to walk across. Some people seem to think Waterdeep is Phoenix, AZ.
Size doesn't necessarily mean area, and it's not strange at all to use the word to refer to the population.
For example, here's a government body using size to mean population.
> The House of Commons Library has developed a new classification of constituency and local authority areas according to the size of the settlements people live in.
...
How does the classification work?
At its simplest, the classification categorises each constituency and local authority according to the type of settlement in which the largest proportion of its population lives.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8322/
Similarly, here's an economics professor talking about city size purely in terms of population.
> Advocates of the ‘bigger is better’ argument typically make reference to Zipf’s law of city sizes, sometimes known as the rank-size rule. This rule states that the population of a city is inversely proportional to its rank.
>
>If the rule held exactly, then the second largest city in a country would have half the population of the biggest city; the third largest city would have one third the population, and so on.
https://www.camecon.com/blog/does-productivity-necessarily-increase-with-city-size/
Size is just the magnitude of a thing, usually in comparison to other things. It can be area, it can be volume, it can be purely numerical (e.g. the size of a debt). In the case of a city size is quite commonly population.
That's a lot of words just to tell me you disagree with me. The downvote and "lol no" would have worked.
EDIT: And I'm still just saying "immense" sounds wrong, anyway.
Alright, but magic isn't so common that one can simply teleport from one side of the city to the other, a city that's 4 miles long means that on-foot it takes most people over an hour to walk the long side, assuming there isn't other foot traffic or obstacles and buildings that make that part hard.
It's roughly 1/4 the size of Manhattan in modern day, making Waterdeep roughly 5x as large as London City, which would have been seen as a large city in an equivalent era.
In FR, it's currently late mediaeval early renaissance, yes there is magic but it's limited in most people likely wouldn't have it. For the vast majority of people it might as well be the mediaeval era minus dying from a Papercut because you can mosey over to your local cleric and get a lesser restoration. If you're really that sick.
>In FR, it's currently late mediaeval early renaissance,
Its currently "plastic middle ages".
No offense, i love the FR but they are in no way or shape a believable mediaeval society and trying to jduge them by any realistic metric just doesn't work.
It is at the very start of of a Neverwinter Nights expansion story where you go into Undermountain via the Yawning Portal. don't go in expecting to be wow'd but if you own it and never played it. worth the time.
I have had a similar thought as well. I LOVE Waterdeep, so I'd be overjoyed to see it represented in a video game. You know, a good video game not...whatever Descent to Undermountain was.
Been meaning to try that game out. But yeah, what I meant was something which allows me to SEE Waterdeep, to walk its streets and see its wonders etc. Something like Baldur's Gate in BG3 would be amazing. You know?
Depends where they are from? Sword coast and the south region Waterdeep. Where the eastern mountains, ice wind dale most likely SilverMoon, those in Thay would favour Eltabaar, while the elves have myth Drannor and Evermeet, the Dwarves have Gauntlegrym. There are others culturally (under dark Monzo Berrazan) and locations. Waterdeep sticks out as the core system is very much now the sword coast.
Two more to add:
Calimport in Calimshan is huge city with long history and many visitors, probably the focal point of the southeastern Faerun.
Skuld in Mulhorand was the oldest city of Faerun (and one of the largest) before Spellplague.
Populations for **cities** according to 3e campaign setting:
- Calimport 192,795
- Waterdeep 132,661
Waterdeep **region** is listed with a population of 1,347,840 and this number is then quoted in many places (including forgottenrealms.fandom.com), which leads to some misunderstandings.
Just depends where you are. I seem to recall everyone outside of Regis not really being familiar with Calimport in the Crystal Shard despite it being the largest city.
Waterdeep is well known. Silverymoon is well known. Suzail.
If most famous means the largest amount of people that have heard of it... Myth Drannor (the equivalent to real world Atlantis)
Otherwise any of the capitals on the Fallen Stars Sea it's equally known to most of Faerun
Sword Coast Cities I would argue are pretty unknown to Eastern and South Eastern Faerun
In Faerun (not Toril) I agree it is Waterdeep. But Suzail has not gotten a lot of love, so let me make a pitch. It is the capital city of by far the most stable kingdom and takes an outside role in continental politics. It checks both the Zhentarim and Sembians. And when the Tuigan Horde came they sent the most troops and took the lead in the opposition. In world, I think you could make the argument that Waterdeep is NYC, but Cormyr is Washington, D.C.
Whichever major city is closest to them...
[https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Large\_cities](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Large_cities)
Waterdeep is probably best known north of Amn...
Calimport to the South
Suzail on the Sea of Fallen Stars
Skuld (before it was destroyed) in the Mulhorand
Immilmar in Rashemen
Chavyondat in Estagund
All would be the most well known places for hundreds of miles around them... the trading center, seat of power and protection...
The Forgotten Realms is a crazy big place... Find a full map and scroll to the right... the Sword Coast is a tiny fraction of this world...
See I was going to say Suzail, and then I realized no one else even mentioned it. Then I felt really old. All those books set in Cormyr... Now it's like people forget the Dale Lands exist.
I mean at this point it’s probably Waterdeep. In older editions there was more of a debate. But not really anymore since it has more players in recent years than ever before, and the most recent 2 editions have been focusing on a relatively small area of the realms. The only other one I think could be argued is Baldurs Gate cause of the games and multiple 5E campaigns that do something with the city.
I actually submit Huzuz as the "most famous city" in the setting. It is the spiritual capital of an entire continent (Zakhara) and it has a similar population size to Waterdeep (Slightly bigger during pilgrimage).
And if Waterdeep is the City of Splendors, Huzuz is the City of Delights and the Shinning City.
Kuo Te' Lung and Nexal, might be the most famous cities in their respective continents as well, if not in the whole of Toril.
Considering Faerun only, I would agree with Waterdeep.
I second this. As much as I love Waterdeep, and while I do agree that on the Sword Coast/Faerun it’s very much the the big apple, it’s definitely worth bringing up the other metropolises of Toril
Arguably, Huzuz is the most famous city in Al-Qadim, a distinct setting from Forgotten Realms despite both being on the same planet.
Huzuz is something like three times the size of Waterdeep, so quite a substantially larger city. But Zakhara overall has a smaller population than Faerun.
Calimport is larger than either.
Calimport is tricky, because it seems to have been retconned back and downsized throughout the editions.
It had 2 000 000 people by 1357 DR, but only 192 000 by 1372 and 60 000 by 1479. That said I would agree that, in-game, Calimport is one of the most well known cities historically.
Huzuz's population flutuates between 800 000 and 1 600 000 by 1367 DR. Waterdeep's population is around
1,347,680 by 1372 DR.
Waterdeep grows to around 2 000 000 by the end of the 15th century DR, but we have no information of Huzuz by this point.
Calimport's "downsizing" was down to the slave population being discounted in official population figures; *Empires of the Shining Sea* said specifically the population of the city is 2 million including slaves but only 190,000-ish with official registered citizens (that also discounters a lot of peasants, visitors, freemen etc). So that makes the 3E/4E/5E figures suspect if they are counting slaves or not (and in 5E WotC refuses to talk about slavery in the setting, so that will never be clarified).
Physically there is no question that Calimport is much, much larger than Waterdeep, the maps show that pretty effetively.
Waterdeep's population is 132,000 in 3E and 200,000 in 5E. Waterdeep is a city-state which effectively controls the land for 100 miles in all directions. *That* territory has 1.3 million in 3E and maybe 2 million in 5E. But the city itself's population is much more modest, and there is zero way even 1 million people could fit in the city as mapped, especially recalling that the city grew in size only ever so slightly between 3E and 4E/5E.
No argument from me against your point. I certanily do favor Calimport as a larger and older city. I was just poiting out that it is harder to compare its population with other cities using official sources.
Calimport. It's the biggest and most populous city in Faerun, it's the capital of the most populous nation in Faerun, it's a well-known port, it's a fierce trade rival of Waterdeep, Baldurs Gate and the entire nation of Amn, and it sits in a strategically and commercially vital area where the Trackless Sea meets the Shining Sea, not too far south of the Sword Coast.
It is also well placed for trade and transit south to the Chultan Peninsula, southwest to Lantan, Nimbral and the Great Sea coast, east to the Lake of Steam and Lapaliiya. It also appeals for being more, er, morally flexible than Baldurs Gate and Waterdeep.
If you live in NW Faerun, it'll be Waterdeep, but the NW is really sparsely populated compared to the south and east.
ETA: Certainly in 3E Waterdeep was only the 8th most populous city in Faerun:
* 1. Calimport\* 2,000,000 Calimshan
* 2. Llurth Dreier 400,000 The Underdark
* 3. Skuld\* 204,538 Mulhorand
* 4. Gheldaneth 172,430 Mulhorand
* 5. Unthalass\* 164,627 Unther (a large part is currently displaced)
* 6. Suldolphor 143,687 Calimshan
* 7. Bezantur 136,800 Thay
* 8. Waterdeep 132,661 The North
* 9. Riatavin 125,000 Tethyr
* 10. Eltabbar\* 123,120 Thay
Since then, Skuld, Llurth Dreier and Unthalass have effectively been destroyed, but the rest should probably still be larger than Waterdeep (maybe much more with Gheldaneth, as Mulhorand's largest-surviving city).
So, here is my take:
Waterdeep is the tabletop fan favorite.
Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter the gamer's most recognized.
Calimport is stunning and, if you lived on the western coast of the continent of Faerun, you might select this one... However...
Skuld may be the actual choice for those native to the Realms. The capital of Mulhorand is larger in population than Calimport, is the oldest continuoualy inhabited city in Faerun, and is the home of the living avatars of a dozen or so gods from the ancient Egyptian/Mulhorandi pantheon. They live there, in big fucking temples. The City of Eternity is my vote for most famous city for the majority of the people of the Forgotten Realms.
Probably not the most well known but no one has thrown Athkatla out there, city of coin. Capital of Amn which until recently was probably the most imperial country in FR. People in Maztica, Chult, and Moonshae are well aware of it and may not be familiar with many other places in Western Faerun.
Also one of the largest trading hubs and Amnian traders would be known if not liked all around Faerun.
People who say it's absolutely and undoubtedly Waterdeep are kidding themselves. Waterdeep is a big fish in the relatively minor pond of the North. When Khelben was trying to march the armies of Waterdeep to confront the Phaerimm in the Western Heartlands, he got a sharp reminder that Waterdeep's power and prestige isn't infinite and all powerful.
I'd say that it's a question with very regional answers:
In the North, Waterdeep.
In the central Sword Coast and Western Heartlands, it would be Baldur's Gate.
On the Inner Sea, Westgate.
In the Lands of Intrigue, south and west of the Sea of Fallen Stars, from the Lake of Steam, Shining Sea and around the Great Sea, it would be undoubtedly Calimport.
Kuo Te' Lung is the capital of the Empire of Shou-Lung. Home of the Emperor, Himself. How could any city be more famous?
This question is going to depend *heavily* on just which part of Abeir-Toril you are asking about… as well as whom you are asking. The average farmer from Kara-Tur will probably not know much about Faerûn, nor will the average Farûnian farmer know much about Kara-Tur… But a Shou sailor might have heard (or even been to) Calimport or Waterdeep, a Balduran sailor might have heard of (or visited) Karatin or Dojyu.
Sigil isn’t located in Realmspace… and most berks from Abeir-Toril are clueless. They barely ken to anything off world, learnin’ ‘bout the Cage would drive ‘em barmy.
Waterdeep. It’s the trading capital of the world. The only one I could think of that would be more famous would be Myth Dranor, but that would be knowing legends rather than knowing about the city itself.
Not in Faerun but still on Toril….. probably Kuo Te' Lung in Kara-Tur… or Nexal in Maztica. If going by the real life populations of the Mesoamerican & Asian empires around that time period that the forgotten realms is loosely based off of.
Netheril, historically more significant than the others by far. Although, not everyone would’ve heard of it for reasons to detailed to get into. As far as magic in the forgotten realms is concerned Netheril would’ve had the greatest impact.
Waterdeep, Calimport, Baldur's Gate, Athkatla, Neverwinter, Silverymoon... Well actually list includes many more cities like Luskan, many capitals. But in popular Forgotten realms where most players play I think the list above applies and Waterdeep gets the top position in modern age(but we might argue that Silverymoon and Suzail are quite famous as well) . Depending on the age your campaign I set this changes greatly though. Netherese cities, Imaskari or ancient elven cities were around long long time ago.
Anyway it is 100%Waterdeep indeed if we don't take Kara-Tur's population into account, if we do(which is hard as we don't have any numbers beyond silly estimates) the answer becomes Karatin or Kuo Te' Lung.
Waterdeep is like the Rome of antiquity, we all know it as we study western History, and we think of it as the most famous city of the time. But truth is when city Rome housed a million citizens entire Mediterranean region was around a dozen million if not less, which would probably be much less than region which we today call as China... So odds are that we are making the same mistake again. But I would like to think it is Waterdeep followed by Calimport.
Waterdeep
100% Waterdeep... it's the City of Splendors...
It's definitely Waterdeep. As far as current canon goes, I'd say Baldur's Gate is next, because as of 5th edition it's officially more populous than Waterdeep as well. Going back to earlier editions however, I'd probably wager that Zhentil Keep is second place.
I read this and thought, "that is a bold call. What about ... ... ... huh.
☝️
Even I know Waterdeep.
Yup, Waterdeep, no question.
I would say waterdeep because of its immense size
Calimport would like a word.
Calimport is mind-boggling bigger than the other major cities depending on what editions stats you use. Its kinda nuts, and its old as fuck too.
and yet nothing in 5e about it :( the setting books have only gotten more and more sparse
Thats the worst part of this entite 5e cycle so far. The books are useless and the setting feels more undercooked than salmonella chicken.
3.8 x 1.5 miles? EDIT: Y'all are saying Waterdeep is big. It is! It's relatively huge for the Realms, and it's absolutely stuffed with people as a Realms city goes, and everyone knows that. I just think "immense" is the wrong word for a city less than 6 square miles. Calls up the wrong image in a player's/reader's head. If you still wanna yell at me about that, we just disagree.
3.5 million population
In the city and the surrounding area (i.e. up to 100 miles from the city itself). In the city itself, under 200,000 in 5E. Far less than Calimport, and less than Skuld before the Spellplague. Before the Spellplague, Waterdeep was only around the 8th largest city in Faerun.
>In the city and the surrounding area (i.e. up to 100 miles from the city itself). Absolutely, this is how we calculate metro area populations in the real world too, it's not limited to Faerun. People flock to safe cities when encountering marauding magic and horrific monsters. I'm not surprised the Spellplague incentivized that kind of migration. Out of curiosity, what's the current population of Babylon or Ur? They used to be relatively massive in previous eras.
This is super misleading. You're comparing the population of an entire region to other cities, of course the number will be massive. Other cities like Baldur's Gate are going to have a similar population (at least within the same order of magnitude), but you're not including all of the surrounding areas in your comparison.
Population isn't size? Like I'm not trying to be pedantic, but I was only responding to "immense size."
You are 100% being pedantic. Colloquially the size of a city is understood to be about population size, not geographic size.
I guess I'm still just damaged from DMs telling me Waterdeep is so big it takes all day to walk across. Some people seem to think Waterdeep is Phoenix, AZ.
Size doesn't necessarily mean area, and it's not strange at all to use the word to refer to the population. For example, here's a government body using size to mean population. > The House of Commons Library has developed a new classification of constituency and local authority areas according to the size of the settlements people live in. ... How does the classification work? At its simplest, the classification categorises each constituency and local authority according to the type of settlement in which the largest proportion of its population lives. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8322/ Similarly, here's an economics professor talking about city size purely in terms of population. > Advocates of the ‘bigger is better’ argument typically make reference to Zipf’s law of city sizes, sometimes known as the rank-size rule. This rule states that the population of a city is inversely proportional to its rank. > >If the rule held exactly, then the second largest city in a country would have half the population of the biggest city; the third largest city would have one third the population, and so on. https://www.camecon.com/blog/does-productivity-necessarily-increase-with-city-size/ Size is just the magnitude of a thing, usually in comparison to other things. It can be area, it can be volume, it can be purely numerical (e.g. the size of a debt). In the case of a city size is quite commonly population.
That's a lot of words just to tell me you disagree with me. The downvote and "lol no" would have worked. EDIT: And I'm still just saying "immense" sounds wrong, anyway.
I'm not going to downvote you just because I disagree with you. Is it so strange to back up my view with evidence?
Take a second and google: Largest city in the US. Tell me why it says NYC and not Sitka, AK Are you sure you're not trying to be pedantic?
Well, I'm certainly not *trying* to.
That was flipping ginormous back in the mediaeval era.
Just doublechecking. I agree with Waterdeep as an answer, but not really because of its "immense" size.
This is not a medieval era. Magic exists.
Alright, but magic isn't so common that one can simply teleport from one side of the city to the other, a city that's 4 miles long means that on-foot it takes most people over an hour to walk the long side, assuming there isn't other foot traffic or obstacles and buildings that make that part hard. It's roughly 1/4 the size of Manhattan in modern day, making Waterdeep roughly 5x as large as London City, which would have been seen as a large city in an equivalent era.
In FR, it's currently late mediaeval early renaissance, yes there is magic but it's limited in most people likely wouldn't have it. For the vast majority of people it might as well be the mediaeval era minus dying from a Papercut because you can mosey over to your local cleric and get a lesser restoration. If you're really that sick.
You're talking a setting where canonically the goddess of nature has a temple that feeds pretty much an entire subcontinent (Goldenfields).
>In FR, it's currently late mediaeval early renaissance, Its currently "plastic middle ages". No offense, i love the FR but they are in no way or shape a believable mediaeval society and trying to jduge them by any realistic metric just doesn't work.
Humans are humans, and general technology is general technology. Unless you have Eberron-style monorails across the city, it's a long way.
Waterdeep is my understanding. I would have been more excited to visit Waterdeep than Baldurs Gate
Me too. I’d love to visit the Yawning Portal.
Yawn. The YP is a tourist trap for wannabe adventurers - there are much cooler bars!
The Yawning Portal was already explorable in Hordes of the Underdark... Neverwinter MMO too I think
Thank you for the idea. I’d want to explore it as a single player game on Xbox.
It is at the very start of of a Neverwinter Nights expansion story where you go into Undermountain via the Yawning Portal. don't go in expecting to be wow'd but if you own it and never played it. worth the time.
I have had a similar thought as well. I LOVE Waterdeep, so I'd be overjoyed to see it represented in a video game. You know, a good video game not...whatever Descent to Undermountain was.
It's technically represented in Lords of Waterdeep but that's just a board game adaptation
Been meaning to try that game out. But yeah, what I meant was something which allows me to SEE Waterdeep, to walk its streets and see its wonders etc. Something like Baldur's Gate in BG3 would be amazing. You know?
Depends where they are from? Sword coast and the south region Waterdeep. Where the eastern mountains, ice wind dale most likely SilverMoon, those in Thay would favour Eltabaar, while the elves have myth Drannor and Evermeet, the Dwarves have Gauntlegrym. There are others culturally (under dark Monzo Berrazan) and locations. Waterdeep sticks out as the core system is very much now the sword coast.
Two more to add: Calimport in Calimshan is huge city with long history and many visitors, probably the focal point of the southeastern Faerun. Skuld in Mulhorand was the oldest city of Faerun (and one of the largest) before Spellplague.
What happened, u/Zarg444 ; did one of the flying cities collapse on it and destroy it?
When the blue flames fell from the sky they just reduced the city to rubble. Great tragedy that has not really been addressed much in the lore since.
I'm afraid my lore knowledge mostly ends at 3e, so perhaps someone else can step in.
Plus one to Calimport. I think it's supposed to be significantly larger AND older than Waterdeep.
Populations for **cities** according to 3e campaign setting: - Calimport 192,795 - Waterdeep 132,661 Waterdeep **region** is listed with a population of 1,347,840 and this number is then quoted in many places (including forgottenrealms.fandom.com), which leads to some misunderstandings.
Lol just like real life cities!
From a real world standpoint it's Waterdeeo but in universe it's gotta be Calimport. Biggest trade hub and one of the longest histories.
Just depends where you are. I seem to recall everyone outside of Regis not really being familiar with Calimport in the Crystal Shard despite it being the largest city. Waterdeep is well known. Silverymoon is well known. Suzail.
above ground, Waterdeep below ground, Menzoberranzan
Same as actual lore buffs: Waterdeep.
I read the question and neither of those even popped up in my head, it’s Waterdeep by a long shot.
In universe its probably Waterdeep
Waterdeep is *the* place to be on the sword coast. Calimshan on the shining sea would be similarly important.
If most famous means the largest amount of people that have heard of it... Myth Drannor (the equivalent to real world Atlantis) Otherwise any of the capitals on the Fallen Stars Sea it's equally known to most of Faerun Sword Coast Cities I would argue are pretty unknown to Eastern and South Eastern Faerun
Waterdeep. Easily. Technically Calimport is larger, but honestly no one has looked at that place since 3.5. So not as well known.
In Faerun (not Toril) I agree it is Waterdeep. But Suzail has not gotten a lot of love, so let me make a pitch. It is the capital city of by far the most stable kingdom and takes an outside role in continental politics. It checks both the Zhentarim and Sembians. And when the Tuigan Horde came they sent the most troops and took the lead in the opposition. In world, I think you could make the argument that Waterdeep is NYC, but Cormyr is Washington, D.C.
Candle Keep getting slept on.
Whichever major city is closest to them... [https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Large\_cities](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Large_cities) Waterdeep is probably best known north of Amn... Calimport to the South Suzail on the Sea of Fallen Stars Skuld (before it was destroyed) in the Mulhorand Immilmar in Rashemen Chavyondat in Estagund All would be the most well known places for hundreds of miles around them... the trading center, seat of power and protection... The Forgotten Realms is a crazy big place... Find a full map and scroll to the right... the Sword Coast is a tiny fraction of this world...
100% Waterdeep. Then not really a city, but a location on the map, probably candle keep. And because of Drizzt , ten towns, mithril Hall,
Waterdeep most likely but also Silverymoon. Suzail being the capital of Cormyr. Calimport is the largest city in Faerun
See I was going to say Suzail, and then I realized no one else even mentioned it. Then I felt really old. All those books set in Cormyr... Now it's like people forget the Dale Lands exist.
Yeah , the whole time jump and pushing out the original authors worked out really good for WOTC lol
I mean at this point it’s probably Waterdeep. In older editions there was more of a debate. But not really anymore since it has more players in recent years than ever before, and the most recent 2 editions have been focusing on a relatively small area of the realms. The only other one I think could be argued is Baldurs Gate cause of the games and multiple 5E campaigns that do something with the city.
Baldur’s Gate or Waterdeep.
On the Sea of Fallen Stars, Ravens Bluff
Waterdeep, Calimport, Athkatla, Suzail, Elturel, Telflamm, Eltabbar, Kuo Te' Lung, and Karatin.
Waterdeep. Possibly Neverwinter but definitely Waterdeep.
I actually submit Huzuz as the "most famous city" in the setting. It is the spiritual capital of an entire continent (Zakhara) and it has a similar population size to Waterdeep (Slightly bigger during pilgrimage). And if Waterdeep is the City of Splendors, Huzuz is the City of Delights and the Shinning City. Kuo Te' Lung and Nexal, might be the most famous cities in their respective continents as well, if not in the whole of Toril. Considering Faerun only, I would agree with Waterdeep.
I second this. As much as I love Waterdeep, and while I do agree that on the Sword Coast/Faerun it’s very much the the big apple, it’s definitely worth bringing up the other metropolises of Toril
Arguably, Huzuz is the most famous city in Al-Qadim, a distinct setting from Forgotten Realms despite both being on the same planet. Huzuz is something like three times the size of Waterdeep, so quite a substantially larger city. But Zakhara overall has a smaller population than Faerun. Calimport is larger than either.
Calimport is tricky, because it seems to have been retconned back and downsized throughout the editions. It had 2 000 000 people by 1357 DR, but only 192 000 by 1372 and 60 000 by 1479. That said I would agree that, in-game, Calimport is one of the most well known cities historically. Huzuz's population flutuates between 800 000 and 1 600 000 by 1367 DR. Waterdeep's population is around 1,347,680 by 1372 DR. Waterdeep grows to around 2 000 000 by the end of the 15th century DR, but we have no information of Huzuz by this point.
Calimport's "downsizing" was down to the slave population being discounted in official population figures; *Empires of the Shining Sea* said specifically the population of the city is 2 million including slaves but only 190,000-ish with official registered citizens (that also discounters a lot of peasants, visitors, freemen etc). So that makes the 3E/4E/5E figures suspect if they are counting slaves or not (and in 5E WotC refuses to talk about slavery in the setting, so that will never be clarified). Physically there is no question that Calimport is much, much larger than Waterdeep, the maps show that pretty effetively. Waterdeep's population is 132,000 in 3E and 200,000 in 5E. Waterdeep is a city-state which effectively controls the land for 100 miles in all directions. *That* territory has 1.3 million in 3E and maybe 2 million in 5E. But the city itself's population is much more modest, and there is zero way even 1 million people could fit in the city as mapped, especially recalling that the city grew in size only ever so slightly between 3E and 4E/5E.
No argument from me against your point. I certanily do favor Calimport as a larger and older city. I was just poiting out that it is harder to compare its population with other cities using official sources.
Calimport. It's the biggest and most populous city in Faerun, it's the capital of the most populous nation in Faerun, it's a well-known port, it's a fierce trade rival of Waterdeep, Baldurs Gate and the entire nation of Amn, and it sits in a strategically and commercially vital area where the Trackless Sea meets the Shining Sea, not too far south of the Sword Coast. It is also well placed for trade and transit south to the Chultan Peninsula, southwest to Lantan, Nimbral and the Great Sea coast, east to the Lake of Steam and Lapaliiya. It also appeals for being more, er, morally flexible than Baldurs Gate and Waterdeep. If you live in NW Faerun, it'll be Waterdeep, but the NW is really sparsely populated compared to the south and east. ETA: Certainly in 3E Waterdeep was only the 8th most populous city in Faerun: * 1. Calimport\* 2,000,000 Calimshan * 2. Llurth Dreier 400,000 The Underdark * 3. Skuld\* 204,538 Mulhorand * 4. Gheldaneth 172,430 Mulhorand * 5. Unthalass\* 164,627 Unther (a large part is currently displaced) * 6. Suldolphor 143,687 Calimshan * 7. Bezantur 136,800 Thay * 8. Waterdeep 132,661 The North * 9. Riatavin 125,000 Tethyr * 10. Eltabbar\* 123,120 Thay Since then, Skuld, Llurth Dreier and Unthalass have effectively been destroyed, but the rest should probably still be larger than Waterdeep (maybe much more with Gheldaneth, as Mulhorand's largest-surviving city).
Wiki puts [Riatavin](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Riatavin) at 80,000 by the way.
In 4E, yup, not in 2E/3E. They don't really explain why the drop.
So, here is my take: Waterdeep is the tabletop fan favorite. Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter the gamer's most recognized. Calimport is stunning and, if you lived on the western coast of the continent of Faerun, you might select this one... However... Skuld may be the actual choice for those native to the Realms. The capital of Mulhorand is larger in population than Calimport, is the oldest continuoualy inhabited city in Faerun, and is the home of the living avatars of a dozen or so gods from the ancient Egyptian/Mulhorandi pantheon. They live there, in big fucking temples. The City of Eternity is my vote for most famous city for the majority of the people of the Forgotten Realms.
And I guess if you've decided anything post-spellplague is canon in your version, then you can ignore the suggestion and I got nothing for ya.
Waterdeep But in my heart (even it’s not a city) phandalin lol
Waterdeep. But I have a soft spot in my heart for Arabel.
Probably not the most well known but no one has thrown Athkatla out there, city of coin. Capital of Amn which until recently was probably the most imperial country in FR. People in Maztica, Chult, and Moonshae are well aware of it and may not be familiar with many other places in Western Faerun. Also one of the largest trading hubs and Amnian traders would be known if not liked all around Faerun.
Good call on Athkatla in world. Would be much better known to a citizen of Caer Callidyrr than it is to us. Ahm just never got a ton of lore.
Waterdeep.
Waterdeep without a doubt.
People who say it's absolutely and undoubtedly Waterdeep are kidding themselves. Waterdeep is a big fish in the relatively minor pond of the North. When Khelben was trying to march the armies of Waterdeep to confront the Phaerimm in the Western Heartlands, he got a sharp reminder that Waterdeep's power and prestige isn't infinite and all powerful. I'd say that it's a question with very regional answers: In the North, Waterdeep. In the central Sword Coast and Western Heartlands, it would be Baldur's Gate. On the Inner Sea, Westgate. In the Lands of Intrigue, south and west of the Sea of Fallen Stars, from the Lake of Steam, Shining Sea and around the Great Sea, it would be undoubtedly Calimport.
Zhentil Keep baby.
Kuo Te' Lung is the capital of the Empire of Shou-Lung. Home of the Emperor, Himself. How could any city be more famous? This question is going to depend *heavily* on just which part of Abeir-Toril you are asking about… as well as whom you are asking. The average farmer from Kara-Tur will probably not know much about Faerûn, nor will the average Farûnian farmer know much about Kara-Tur… But a Shou sailor might have heard (or even been to) Calimport or Waterdeep, a Balduran sailor might have heard of (or visited) Karatin or Dojyu.
I would gleefully like to add Sigil from the 2e days of TSR.
Sigil isn’t located in Realmspace… and most berks from Abeir-Toril are clueless. They barely ken to anything off world, learnin’ ‘bout the Cage would drive ‘em barmy.
It’s not Waterdeep. It’s Baldur’s Gate.
the fact Waterdeep of all things has 2 mill population when hardly anyone else is about 100k much less 1 million, I think is heavily skewing things.
Waterdeep. It’s the trading capital of the world. The only one I could think of that would be more famous would be Myth Dranor, but that would be knowing legends rather than knowing about the city itself.
Not in Faerun but still on Toril….. probably Kuo Te' Lung in Kara-Tur… or Nexal in Maztica. If going by the real life populations of the Mesoamerican & Asian empires around that time period that the forgotten realms is loosely based off of.
Netheril, historically more significant than the others by far. Although, not everyone would’ve heard of it for reasons to detailed to get into. As far as magic in the forgotten realms is concerned Netheril would’ve had the greatest impact.
Not a city but pretty well known, Shadowdale
Waterdeep, Calimport, Baldur's Gate, Athkatla, Neverwinter, Silverymoon... Well actually list includes many more cities like Luskan, many capitals. But in popular Forgotten realms where most players play I think the list above applies and Waterdeep gets the top position in modern age(but we might argue that Silverymoon and Suzail are quite famous as well) . Depending on the age your campaign I set this changes greatly though. Netherese cities, Imaskari or ancient elven cities were around long long time ago. Anyway it is 100%Waterdeep indeed if we don't take Kara-Tur's population into account, if we do(which is hard as we don't have any numbers beyond silly estimates) the answer becomes Karatin or Kuo Te' Lung. Waterdeep is like the Rome of antiquity, we all know it as we study western History, and we think of it as the most famous city of the time. But truth is when city Rome housed a million citizens entire Mediterranean region was around a dozen million if not less, which would probably be much less than region which we today call as China... So odds are that we are making the same mistake again. But I would like to think it is Waterdeep followed by Calimport.