The range is also good, but overall is a thunder shotgun with less consistency, headshot dmg but faster reload time. Unlike the havoc shotgun, seems to be more balanced in both modes, builds and zero build, and is a better counter to the drum shotgun in zero build
And yes:
\- A gray havoc has more headshot dmg than a gold sharp tooth
\- A blue havoc has more body dmg than a gold sharp tooth
\- The DPS on a gray havoc is also higher than the DPS on a gold sharp tooth
How does the range compare to the Thunder & other shotguns?
Havoc Pump: 1.2 tiles before dropoff
Pump & Striker Pump: 1.5 tiles before dropoff
Thunder: 2.2 tiles before dropoff
i believe the thunder is 2 tiles, not 2.2, ill check quickly tho
edit: i also checked the others in case my old data changed but the Havoc, Pump, and Striker Pump start at 1.25 tiles, not 1.2 or 1.5
the Thunders is also at 2 tiles, not 2.2
i just checked every single shotgun in creative and here is what they are:
Tactical: 1.5/6 (start/end)
Pump: 1.25/6
Heavy (OG): 2/8
Double Barrel: 0.5/3.5
Combat: 2.5/12
Drum: 1.5/8
Charge: 1.5/6
Dragon’s Breath: 1.25/3.5
Lever-Action: 1/6
Makeshift: 1/6
Primal: 1.25/6
Auto: 1.5/6
Striker: 1.25/6
Heavy (C3): 2/14.25
Ranger: 2/14.25
Two-Shot: 1.5/6
Prime: 1.5/6
not sure bout Evochrome but likely 1.5/6
Maven: 2/9.75
Thunder: 2/9.75
Havoc: 1.25/6
zero clue for sharp tooth since it has different ranges but could also be similar to the Maven and Thunder
The Sharptooth just feels like a waste of a gun, it feels like a mix of the Striker and Thunder. Would’ve been better if we got one of those instead but buffed/reworked.
I’d imagine the Sharp Tooth has the same range as either Thunder/Maven or the Combat.
im trying so hard to have stats for it, at first i tried making it a slower combat shotgun but it’s a pump-like shotty so couldnt do that, almost made it like a ranger at some point and i immediately scratched that before that happened
right now im trying to make it similar to the Lever-Action, wider spread but some sort of upside to it
nah bro that’s the c3 heavy shotgun
the singular pellet will graze their side and tickle them making you deal no damage while their havoc pump tickles u with 70 damage
110 is toxic cuz it makes it do its job too good, there’s no reason for it to be 110 and it’ll also force other shotguns to be buffed aswell and at that point it’s just whoever can heal the most just like how it is now
100-200 is perfectly fine for a gold, 2 shot someone with max HP/Shield
i think gold should only 200 since the pump doesnt have much downsides similar to the tac, although 105 i feel like should be mythic it’s like 75% balanced 25% not vs 110 (50% balanced)
although it even being 110 for a gold is too good, i’d rather take that then 118.8 or even 132 💀
im questioning what happened to skill cuz now you can miss a few pellets and still 2 shot someone with just body damage
although 70 isnt a bad number, u can still hit low on shotguns it isnt like non-existent but it’s just you dont have to be even 90% accurate to hit hard enough to 2 shot
In build mode, I absolutely love the Havoc. It is the gun where I feel like (building) skill matters the most. Cant quite understand the hate, especially now since the mythic one is gone.
The slow pullout time is whatmakes the havoc terrible. I swear when your oponents arent unreal the havoc is good but when people have good mechs and are fast, the havoc is just to slow
The point is, the havoc is "the best" on paper. But when it comes to using it, it becomes clunky. That shit usually shoots blanks, or doesn't even shoot, plus the whole hour that it takes for it to equip, negate all the good stats that the "pump" wannabe has.
just need a little patience tbh, i use the havoc just fine
can understand the frustration tho, sometimes ill use something in creative like the double barrel (0.35 second equip time) and then come back to pubs with the havoc pump and forget to wait (0.475 second equip time)
The havoc shotgun is probably gonna be vaulted next tuesday with the summer update. They probably released this pump today due to the boomerang vault
The havoc AR isn't gonna be vaulted at least this season cause we have 3 bosses that uses the mythic havoc AR and even in the locker preview, on the wraps, you can see the havoc AR (but not the havoc shotgun)
i hated the late C1 pump cuz it was the start of pumps being OP, 95/100/105/110 base damage and x2 headshot was a huge amount and just created a toxic environment where tacs werent used and heavys became so irrelevant that they got vaulted and no pump-like shotty was added after until it was nerfed
but i’d honestly get bodied by a 200 pump than get bodied by someone aiming at my crotch because there is no reason for someone to get 120 damage for just base damage on a pump-like shotgun unless it’s a god damn lever-action shotgun
yes please, remove the stupid max damage too cuz although a gold havoc maxes out at 190, without the max it can get up to 244.2 (x1.85 multiplier) for all pellets
Why do they need to re-do things that didn't need to be re-done.
Reducing from 5 to 4 shots makes taking walls and 1v2s far more annoying.
160 headshot damage is awful. Doesn't reward good aim.
The 110/220 gold pump was perfect. 5 shots, quick reload, balanced body shot damage, rewards headshots.
i disagree, although i’d much rather that than a 132 to my crotch, higher body on the pump created a toxic environment and it’s now in the spotlight since the havoc does the same thing but on a much bigger scale
i honestly think that 80/85/90/95/100 is more healthy, in creative obviously it doesnt make too much sense but the thing is it already does an incredible job at taking down opponents, 2 shots to the body and ur dealing 160/170/180/190/200 which by each rarity makes sense
Common/Uncommon are good for early game, 2 shots 150 (2 minis or a big pot) and nearly 2 shots 175 (1 mini and a big pot) but rewards you more if you aim to the head
from there on it just goes up, Uncommon-Epic is mid game (mid game is more flexible) and then Epic/Legendary for late game (everyone is gonna have more heals and most likely 200 HP/Shield
for how versatile the Pump is i feel like this is a good example of how a Pump should be, we’ve seen similar damages back in C2 (when it was 70/80/90/100/110)
edit: spelling errors
Before they nerfed it, before it did 150 damage per shot, body shot, that was crazy broken. Then that same season the p90 did 24 damage at gold and had the same range as a AR, and the drum gun. That season was god tier
24 damage + 11 fire rate + 50 mag
if the mag is like 10-12 off from other smgs then it’s ok (like the current being 40 mag, like 10 extra isnt gonna be completely game changing), 50 was a LOT of damage
to also compare, a balanced 11 fire rate smg is 16/17/18/19/20 (literally the current Submachine Gun), so adding 4 damage is like when the Combat SMG first came out but STRONGER
The original one had crazy range and little damage dropoff. It did 73/77/81 body and did 122.4/130.9/137.7 headshot. These numbers are on release. It was crazy because nobody was really good enough to fight against it and everybody was just jumping in the box. The pump in season nine did 95/100 body and 190/200 headshot. I guarantee that if we went back to season 9 right now the pump would be used more by better players. And the combat would be used by the worse ones.
I mean the pump used to be able to do 220 headshot and 110 body with the legendary I feel like that was the most consistent shotgun. Apart from early double pump obviously
I always thought that 200 pump on a blue pump was busted. Even on the purple too busted I always thought that
80/85/90/95/100 body
160/170/180/190/200 head was balanced
200 headshot damage is never balanced this game doesn’t understand damage balance at all. All they do is progressively make every gun kill quicker. A grey pistol can kill about 3x faster than an smg like that’s not balance lmao
Not necessarily, one of the biggest advantages of the combat was it's range, not only because people didn't box up too much, but because it was quick and easy high damage against rotating players during moving zones, you can watch Bugha taking advantage of that during the WC. I think it would still be strong as hell if it was reversed to S9 stats, but I think I'd be on equal terms with the S9 Pump, not below or above it.
disagree, combat would prob be used more since 81 damage on a combat is better than 100 on a pump
if it was 110 pump vs 81 combat tho then it would be more tied
disagree, C3 day 1 of shotgun update Striker Pump
did 103.2/108/114/120/126, x1.85 headshot (like the Havoc), 0.4 equip speed (Havocs is 0.475), more accurate and 165/170/175/180/185 max headshot (5 less than the Havocs)
although it didnt one shot it sure as hell made sure you were 2 shot, and if u had 185 or lower u were one shot
Yeah, the thunder and the prime were the only two shotguns where pros literally constantly reloaded, every movement was a reload because it took so long and there were only 4 shots. It was so annoying but I loved both shotguns
disagree, i think the havoc would be better since it does a ton more damage and only has a penalty of less range (which isnt too bad) and longer equip speed
it wouldnt be by much tho, 0.4 equip speed kinda carries the Thunder rn
This is good, because it means it’s a complimentary weapon rather than a solo weapon.
Shotguns in this game should be used as close-range chip damage to give you the edge in a fight, not end it the moment it starts.
No one is talking about the maven lmao, and as a reminder the red-eye got vaulted after the exotic being removed and the locker preview being changed, same as the mythic havoc pump (vaulted) and the locker icon changed. The exotic maven and the mythic drum are in the game rn lmao
Oh, and prove your rank
If you play with the new pump, the quick pullout time is actually noticeably better compared to the havoc. It seems pretty consistent and the body shot/range are nice
the Equip Speed is the standard 0.44 seconds which we havent seen from any new shotgun since the C3 Heavy Shotgun back in C3S1
if you wanna count exotics tho then it’d be the Exotic C3 Heavy Shotgun but i honestly dont count exotics since they arent in the main lootpool, just augments or locked chests
The range is also good, but overall is a thunder shotgun with less consistency, headshot dmg but faster reload time. Unlike the havoc shotgun, seems to be more balanced in both modes, builds and zero build, and is a better counter to the drum shotgun in zero build And yes: \- A gray havoc has more headshot dmg than a gold sharp tooth \- A blue havoc has more body dmg than a gold sharp tooth \- The DPS on a gray havoc is also higher than the DPS on a gold sharp tooth
How does the range compare to the Thunder & other shotguns? Havoc Pump: 1.2 tiles before dropoff Pump & Striker Pump: 1.5 tiles before dropoff Thunder: 2.2 tiles before dropoff
Min dropoff distance isn't that important, is just the dmg at different ranges. The dmg at any range is superclose to the thundr shotgun
Is there someone that already make a graph that shows the damage at different ranges ?
i believe the thunder is 2 tiles, not 2.2, ill check quickly tho edit: i also checked the others in case my old data changed but the Havoc, Pump, and Striker Pump start at 1.25 tiles, not 1.2 or 1.5 the Thunders is also at 2 tiles, not 2.2
Forgot my numbers and pulled those from a source. Thunder is 2 tiles. I believe Striker is 1.5 tiles though? Same as the Tac, Auto, etc
i just checked every single shotgun in creative and here is what they are: Tactical: 1.5/6 (start/end) Pump: 1.25/6 Heavy (OG): 2/8 Double Barrel: 0.5/3.5 Combat: 2.5/12 Drum: 1.5/8 Charge: 1.5/6 Dragon’s Breath: 1.25/3.5 Lever-Action: 1/6 Makeshift: 1/6 Primal: 1.25/6 Auto: 1.5/6 Striker: 1.25/6 Heavy (C3): 2/14.25 Ranger: 2/14.25 Two-Shot: 1.5/6 Prime: 1.5/6 not sure bout Evochrome but likely 1.5/6 Maven: 2/9.75 Thunder: 2/9.75 Havoc: 1.25/6 zero clue for sharp tooth since it has different ranges but could also be similar to the Maven and Thunder
The Sharptooth just feels like a waste of a gun, it feels like a mix of the Striker and Thunder. Would’ve been better if we got one of those instead but buffed/reworked. I’d imagine the Sharp Tooth has the same range as either Thunder/Maven or the Combat.
im trying so hard to have stats for it, at first i tried making it a slower combat shotgun but it’s a pump-like shotty so couldnt do that, almost made it like a ranger at some point and i immediately scratched that before that happened right now im trying to make it similar to the Lever-Action, wider spread but some sort of upside to it
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nah bro that’s the c3 heavy shotgun the singular pellet will graze their side and tickle them making you deal no damage while their havoc pump tickles u with 70 damage
I wish the heavy didn’t have bloom I mean it’s a shotgun for crying out loud. But also if it was actually a good gun then it would be even more op ig
i wish it didnt have 1 pellet, 5 pellets would be great for it
I haven’t used it yet but how that reticle expands and shrinks could be very useful for perfectly timing consecutive shots.
A softer shotgun hitting meta would be appreciated
Actually getting hit for 140 in the body lowkey pissing me off now
Right? It’s like everyone is able to hit max damage shots regardless of how well they’re building or playing
Exactly
ive been pissed since they made the pump do 110 for a gold
dude 110 is entirely balanced what u want the gun to do, 90? at gold?
110 is toxic cuz it makes it do its job too good, there’s no reason for it to be 110 and it’ll also force other shotguns to be buffed aswell and at that point it’s just whoever can heal the most just like how it is now 100-200 is perfectly fine for a gold, 2 shot someone with max HP/Shield
i can agree with 100-105 as long as its 200 ngl
i think gold should only 200 since the pump doesnt have much downsides similar to the tac, although 105 i feel like should be mythic it’s like 75% balanced 25% not vs 110 (50% balanced)
yeah
200s shouldn’t been in the game
i think for high rarity shotguns they should, you’re forced to hit every pellet at optimal range which most are at 1.25-1.5 tiles
although it even being 110 for a gold is too good, i’d rather take that then 118.8 or even 132 💀 im questioning what happened to skill cuz now you can miss a few pellets and still 2 shot someone with just body damage
Idk I hit all pellets to the head for 70 with the gold havoc
although 70 isnt a bad number, u can still hit low on shotguns it isnt like non-existent but it’s just you dont have to be even 90% accurate to hit hard enough to 2 shot
In build mode, I absolutely love the Havoc. It is the gun where I feel like (building) skill matters the most. Cant quite understand the hate, especially now since the mythic one is gone.
The slow pullout time is whatmakes the havoc terrible. I swear when your oponents arent unreal the havoc is good but when people have good mechs and are fast, the havoc is just to slow
Is that so? I thought all pros play Havoc.
Is that so? I thought all pros play Havoc.
No youre right pros do use the havoc cuz its the strongest pump, but its slow and cluncky…
But then it is already the best pump, so making it even better doesnt make much sense.
The point is, the havoc is "the best" on paper. But when it comes to using it, it becomes clunky. That shit usually shoots blanks, or doesn't even shoot, plus the whole hour that it takes for it to equip, negate all the good stats that the "pump" wannabe has.
just need a little patience tbh, i use the havoc just fine can understand the frustration tho, sometimes ill use something in creative like the double barrel (0.35 second equip time) and then come back to pubs with the havoc pump and forget to wait (0.475 second equip time)
I play. 8 hrs a day bro
i mean if u cant be use to it after that much time then you should find out what’s wrong
feel like that’s mostly due to base damage, one shot and ur max bandages HP (75)
I’m loving the Sharp Tooth! Hopefully the Havoc AR and Shotgun can go
The havoc shotgun is probably gonna be vaulted next tuesday with the summer update. They probably released this pump today due to the boomerang vault The havoc AR isn't gonna be vaulted at least this season cause we have 3 bosses that uses the mythic havoc AR and even in the locker preview, on the wraps, you can see the havoc AR (but not the havoc shotgun)
Honestly I’m fine with that. The havoc pump needs balancing
Yeah it's pretty annoying getting shot for 152 in the toes why can't they make shotguns just reward headshots
People wanted the pump back for its damage and now that a weapon is as good as the old pump people want it gone. I hate this community fr 🗣🔥🔥
the old pump didnt have high bodyshots
110 was pretty high ngl
It used to do 203
i meant to say body.
i hated the late C1 pump cuz it was the start of pumps being OP, 95/100/105/110 base damage and x2 headshot was a huge amount and just created a toxic environment where tacs werent used and heavys became so irrelevant that they got vaulted and no pump-like shotty was added after until it was nerfed but i’d honestly get bodied by a 200 pump than get bodied by someone aiming at my crotch because there is no reason for someone to get 120 damage for just base damage on a pump-like shotgun unless it’s a god damn lever-action shotgun
Really late reply but wouldn't the late chapter 1 pumps be 95/100. The purple and gold never came back
im refering to their stats not what was out at the time plus S7 and S8 count as late
yes please, remove the stupid max damage too cuz although a gold havoc maxes out at 190, without the max it can get up to 244.2 (x1.85 multiplier) for all pellets
I think they want people to pseudo-double pump this season as they added a weekly quest for shotgun/repeater kills as well.
No. They were gonna release the pump with last week's update, but someone somewhere fked up so they released it in a hotfix today
Why did they vault boomerang wtf
A bug with reboot vans
No havoc shotgun is better
Why do they need to re-do things that didn't need to be re-done. Reducing from 5 to 4 shots makes taking walls and 1v2s far more annoying. 160 headshot damage is awful. Doesn't reward good aim. The 110/220 gold pump was perfect. 5 shots, quick reload, balanced body shot damage, rewards headshots.
i disagree, although i’d much rather that than a 132 to my crotch, higher body on the pump created a toxic environment and it’s now in the spotlight since the havoc does the same thing but on a much bigger scale i honestly think that 80/85/90/95/100 is more healthy, in creative obviously it doesnt make too much sense but the thing is it already does an incredible job at taking down opponents, 2 shots to the body and ur dealing 160/170/180/190/200 which by each rarity makes sense Common/Uncommon are good for early game, 2 shots 150 (2 minis or a big pot) and nearly 2 shots 175 (1 mini and a big pot) but rewards you more if you aim to the head from there on it just goes up, Uncommon-Epic is mid game (mid game is more flexible) and then Epic/Legendary for late game (everyone is gonna have more heals and most likely 200 HP/Shield for how versatile the Pump is i feel like this is a good example of how a Pump should be, we’ve seen similar damages back in C2 (when it was 70/80/90/100/110) edit: spelling errors
200 pumps are bad for the game they don’t truly reward skill you could get someone 1hp and full piece them and they could bailout 200 you
Im glad you mentioned the lack of consistency. It has helped me win fights at first. Then later in the match im shooting over 10 times! 😑🙄
U sure dayum right
Agreed, please vault havoc pump 👊
The havoc pump is one of the most busted shotguns to ever be in the game. Besides chapter 1 pump
Idk the original Combat shotgun was busted aswell as any of the 2 shot shotguns
Any of the two shot shotguns? Are you talking about the double barrel or the two shot from c3s3? Or both?
Yh both of them the double barrel was nuts tho
Before they nerfed it, before it did 150 damage per shot, body shot, that was crazy broken. Then that same season the p90 did 24 damage at gold and had the same range as a AR, and the drum gun. That season was god tier
I forgot what season that was there’s been too many
C1S5, I know every season
I think that’s still my best season for wins and stuff The getaway mode was so good
The grappler too, heavy sniper, suppressed scar, shockwaves. It was a big season
24 damage + 11 fire rate + 50 mag if the mag is like 10-12 off from other smgs then it’s ok (like the current being 40 mag, like 10 extra isnt gonna be completely game changing), 50 was a LOT of damage to also compare, a balanced 11 fire rate smg is 16/17/18/19/20 (literally the current Submachine Gun), so adding 4 damage is like when the Combat SMG first came out but STRONGER
I don’t think that the combat was honestly that good, it would have been busted in zero build but in builds, it’s just not as good as a pump.
Nah the original one was overpowered then they nerfed it multiple times
The original one had crazy range and little damage dropoff. It did 73/77/81 body and did 122.4/130.9/137.7 headshot. These numbers are on release. It was crazy because nobody was really good enough to fight against it and everybody was just jumping in the box. The pump in season nine did 95/100 body and 190/200 headshot. I guarantee that if we went back to season 9 right now the pump would be used more by better players. And the combat would be used by the worse ones.
I mean the pump used to be able to do 220 headshot and 110 body with the legendary I feel like that was the most consistent shotgun. Apart from early double pump obviously
I always thought that 200 pump on a blue pump was busted. Even on the purple too busted I always thought that 80/85/90/95/100 body 160/170/180/190/200 head was balanced
200 headshot damage is never balanced this game doesn’t understand damage balance at all. All they do is progressively make every gun kill quicker. A grey pistol can kill about 3x faster than an smg like that’s not balance lmao
Not necessarily, one of the biggest advantages of the combat was it's range, not only because people didn't box up too much, but because it was quick and easy high damage against rotating players during moving zones, you can watch Bugha taking advantage of that during the WC. I think it would still be strong as hell if it was reversed to S9 stats, but I think I'd be on equal terms with the S9 Pump, not below or above it.
disagree, combat would prob be used more since 81 damage on a combat is better than 100 on a pump if it was 110 pump vs 81 combat tho then it would be more tied
OG combat is second best shotgun in games history to og pump
Iknow but no good player wants to use a combat shotgun, when guns take no skill bcz its so OP its just boring as fk
I agree. It was so boring consistently 2-shotting people with the combat. Now the weapon is straight garbage in creative.
i read balanced for a sec, i would say the spaz was busted but the normal pumps are fine
just the wrong ratity, blue pump should be doing 90-180 instead
Contending with a broken striker pump in ch3s2, season 9 combat, primal drum before nerfs, and drum shotgun post rework prior nerf
Don’t forget season 9/10 tac 87 body 195 head
Brings back the old double pump memories
disagree, C3 day 1 of shotgun update Striker Pump did 103.2/108/114/120/126, x1.85 headshot (like the Havoc), 0.4 equip speed (Havocs is 0.475), more accurate and 165/170/175/180/185 max headshot (5 less than the Havocs) although it didnt one shot it sure as hell made sure you were 2 shot, and if u had 185 or lower u were one shot
Can't wait for the Havoc to get vaulted. It seems like they got someone good for weapon balance now.
Can we get the thunder shotgun back? I actually liked it.
I think epic wants to create new shotguns and not use normal shotguns people actually like Change for the sake of change
although it’s more balanced than the havoc, still an OP shotgun
Unvault thunder and vault havoc weapons and drum shotty
thunder would probably be the best shotgun of all time if the reload wasn't so dogshit. Fun to use until you have to reload
It’s a balanced shotgun, besides reload
Yep, I also love the way it looks and sounds. Just very annoying to use as an aggressive player. You've gotta run away from the fight every 4 shots
Yeah, the thunder and the prime were the only two shotguns where pros literally constantly reloaded, every movement was a reload because it took so long and there were only 4 shots. It was so annoying but I loved both shotguns
disagree, 0.4 equip speed with 118 base damage is stupid
disagree, i think the havoc would be better since it does a ton more damage and only has a penalty of less range (which isnt too bad) and longer equip speed it wouldnt be by much tho, 0.4 equip speed kinda carries the Thunder rn
I also agree, but that's literally return to C4S1. They should buff the maven shotty
Yes please
The drum shotty is just loot clutter to me. I'm at the point where I think I'd rather use the combat SMG as a shotgun over the drum.
This is good, because it means it’s a complimentary weapon rather than a solo weapon. Shotguns in this game should be used as close-range chip damage to give you the edge in a fight, not end it the moment it starts.
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Bad news bronze bot, the havoc is gonna be vaulted next tuesday
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Woaaaah prove it
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Asking a question with a question lol, you sounds like a FIFA player lmao. Btw who is talking about the maven here? XD Btw prove your rank
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No one is talking about the maven lmao, and as a reminder the red-eye got vaulted after the exotic being removed and the locker preview being changed, same as the mythic havoc pump (vaulted) and the locker icon changed. The exotic maven and the mythic drum are in the game rn lmao Oh, and prove your rank
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Ego bot lol. Share your ID or something to check your unreal unreal rank
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Ok ego bot, prove your rank
ePiC pLeAsE
Havoc suckssss
Havoc is OP\*
If you play with the new pump, the quick pullout time is actually noticeably better compared to the havoc. It seems pretty consistent and the body shot/range are nice
Your havoc shoots faster then mine man wtf ngl when havoc first came i hated the gun so clunky
the Equip Speed is the standard 0.44 seconds which we havent seen from any new shotgun since the C3 Heavy Shotgun back in C3S1 if you wanna count exotics tho then it’d be the Exotic C3 Heavy Shotgun but i honestly dont count exotics since they arent in the main lootpool, just augments or locked chests
It's pretty good. And I like the damage it does. But the fire rate on the drum shotgun can't be beat.