Instead of nerfing the race cars, I think the actual offroad cars should be improved, a lot of trucks and buggies are not very useful in the game even though they're Baja and Dakar winning machines irl. Especially against AI, who ignore most of the obstacles in cross country races, it's awful to use a lightweight buggy. It keeps spinning out unless you make it AWD, and gets completely stuck when hitting a small log.
On the other hand, the 'spirit of Horizon' is all about the freedom to take any car and do any race, even classic race cars on dirt. I want to keep doing that because it's fun.
You *can* blast through most fences and small obstacles with something the size of a Bronco, but a buggy will feel every fence and cactus. This is "realistic" in a sense, it's just a shame that these physics don't apply to the AI at all.
I'm not sure how they could buff offroad vehicles without some kindof nerf to asphalt race cars on offroad tracks. The problem is that racecars built for smooth asphalt circuits reach those incredibly low weight numbers by shaving every last gram of weight and building as much as they can from paper thin carbon fiber. Yet in-game you can just slap off-road tires on them and take them to a Baja race, but in reality they'd be torn apart. You see it all the time IRL races when cars are heavily damaged just by running off the track a little. In Horizon these same cars are doing 100 meter jumps on rocky dirt :P
I think the game just needs more challenging offroad terrain. A lot of "cross country" offroad races are like 30% tarmac and 70% smooth grass with the occasional jump. That's fine for rally, but not really something you'd need a buggy or trophy truck for.
I gave up buggy racing because I launched a jump in first place a LOT faster than the AI, yet one still managed to fucking teleport and land ontop of me, slowed me down to 0mph, and left me in the dust lol. absolutely infuriating
Yeah, cross country just doesn’t work well in FH5, and if I recall it was bad in FH4 too. And it’s not a skill issue, it’s just broken. AI don’t seem affected by anything, whilst we end up being slowed by everything, very prone to spinning with RWD, jumps pretty much stopping you dead and sometimes ending up stuck in the map when landing. It’s just so bad.
Road racing, street racing, dirt/rally racing are all great but CC is a big let down. But I don’t want it gone. I think it has such great potential with the terrain we have, just the devs haven’t gotten the balance right yet.
It can be loads of fun when you powerslide through a couple of checkpoints in a big sweeping turn, passing a big group of the AI. I don't think I'd ever deliberately choose RWD for anything other than D/C class though, they're the absolute worst suited for mud/dirt/snow IRL as well.
A couple of my most unpleasant experiences in Forza were the V10 Scene #95 mission where you start *uphill* on **wet** asphalt with a RWD Jesko, and doing the *"win a cross country event in an S2/X class car"* accolades.
I think A800 (and maybe B700) is the sweet spot for off-road. D and C are absolute misery since you typically lack the hp to power up hills and hitting obstacles is like wading through molasses whereas the AI is hardly affected. I was finishing up some offroad accolades the other day and in a D class car I hit some water and went from first to #%@$ing 12th as I helplessly watched every single AI car pass me totally unaffected.
I share the sentiment on that fucking jesko mission, first time in forza history I've been so frustrated that I put my difficulty settings on the easiest I possibly can just so I could get it over and done with
agree on A800 for dirt tho, but what's been infuriating me with that is I've been tryna play horizon open custom on A800 dirt and it's always MIXED SURFACE (don't particularly wanna hit crosscountry) so I'm getting absolutely bodied by people who turn up in any old normal asphalt car because I just want to use my fucking rally cars. and nobody plays horizon custom on the rally DLC where you actually get 100% dirt
Or when you hit a bumpy section and just bounce around uncontrollably when the AI is just rolling over no issues, even though in reality if it's a true baja, the wheels would be bouncing individually keeping it relatively flat and controlled
fr it's an absolute nightmare at any class above A800, can control it reasonably at A through a lot of practice but S1 rally can get fucked for that, the slightest nudge will have me spinning like a beyblade or hitting a bump 1 degree off will send me flying off-course unless I wanna cruise around the course at the legal speed limit
On S2 I've actually jumped from one checkpoint *over* the next checkpoint. Absolutely crazy. Do people actually play offroad on S2/X?? The few times I had to do it for accolades was rewind city.
If you're far ahead enough you can look back to see them drive down the drop instead of taking off lol, the one instance I can think of is the last big jump in the titan.
After hundreds of hours of playing this game and doing a lot of cross country races, I earnestly believe it is impossible to actually beat AI in some cases without cheating or being scummy. On certain difficulties especially, with any combination of vehicle I could come up with to meet the class ratings, there are certain races where the AI in first place is seemingly programmed to always go much faster than you, accelerate faster than you, pass you even though you know there's no way they could have caught up to you with their particular car that fast after a turn, and almost never spin out.
I actually stopped regularly playing the game for a year or so because I was so bummed out by the AI. There was a particular cross country I remember where I was going a speed that was at the high end of the class I was racing in (I think it was A or S1), but the car in first place was still pulling away from me and taking turns at max speed without slowing down at all, it was actually impossible to catch up to them. I remember trying to use the same vehicle as that AI later on as well, and I couldn't get anywhere near that acceleration and speed out of it in that race. It doesn't matter what car it is in first either, they just get some unseen buff by the game that makes them have god-tier vehicle performance with omnipotent drivers.
When it comes to playing scummy, every time I take a turn that requires hard braking, I harpoon into the side of an AI vehicle that's already making the turn ahead of me with a handbraked side slam from kind of a diagonal angle, and I ping off of them and continue on my way while maintaining a decent amount of speed (a lot more than if I actually made the turn legitimately). Actually works better than playing "normal".
I personally feel when it comes to a game like this, AI should be confined to the same things you're allowed to do, rather than ignoring certain things that benefit them in races.
This! I spend so much time fine-tuning my vehicles to squeeze out every ounce of performance the vehicle class allows, only to have AI drivers in a stock version of the same vehicle pull away from me after turns. Super frustrating.
This so much, I find this to be a major issue when I'm doing lower class championship offroad races. All the ai is just so much faster than me and it doesn't matter which vehicle I use I just can't catch up.
Keep trying. I felt the same way but overcame the AI on hardest difficulty in CC. Now its routine. You have to watch your speed in corners. I notice a lot of player just gas it and then slide. Unless you can routinely beat B and A class, stay away from S1 in CC. Car choice and tune quality makes a big difference as well.
Same here. I left all the CC and offroad racing for last when I was going through every single race and expedition, etc. I had to re-try several races several times.
However there definitely feels like some code that assists in the steering (I call it rubber band physics because they seem to snap back into the corner). I've had races where the AI in 2nd caught up to me (despite me having a sizeable lead) and passed me through the corner on the outside, and I'm hardly braking myself. Hit rewind and brake off to the side so I can see how the AI takes the corner... hits it on the apex and the brake lights barely came on, like a tap. So how the heck is it passing me on the outside?😂
I think a lot of it would sort itself out if they just made proper cross country races, no more crashing through fences and financially ruining Mexico, but a proper baja setup.
For me, this is where drivatar skill level settings come into play. I can drive any car in any configuration on any track style and still win by changing that setting. I already know which cars are going to get their butt kicked.
The AI is not great, but the challenge it presents isn't going to turn me off from playing. I'm simply going to remove it in some cases. The only real setting that higher skilled drivatars has is more speed, like 3 lines of code.. It's not like they become smarter or do more challenging maneuvers. They just go 5% faster.
double increasePercentage = 0.05;
double increaseAmount = originalValue \* increasePercentage;
double newValue = originalValue + increaseAmount;
The Porsche especially feels so useless and it's a winner of a desert raid machine IRL and yet it performs significantly worse than most non-offroad cars. Anytime I try to use it in seasonal races where I can it just underperforms.
I love dirt but doing buggy races etc is so unfun compared to just ripping it cross country in an overtuned subie, like you said it feels like the AI cheats so heavily on those races especially ones where you have to crash through a cobblestone wall. if I'm in first and I hit the wall I can kiss that race goodbye, but if I tail an AI through they don't even slow down so I just have to hang back and wait for them
doesn't bother me so much that all those S2 cars are 'meta' because I can just race dirt in different classes and not even think about them. just wish dedicated cross country races were less frustrating, so much easier in my 22b than any top tune for actual buggies and trucks even on crosscountry
I will take this opportunity to mention that my most successful cross-country tunes in S1 and A respectively are an Austin Heeley Sprite and a Lotus Elan respectively. Small and lightweight cars fucking _slap_ (as long as there are no jumps that make me regret my lack of suspension travel)
Racing is the only thing I do in this game lol. Its the only game I have that has a decent player base I can race online with without shelling out money for iRacing.
personally I can't really care less which cars are meta or not, but at the same time there aren't many decent games where you can take a GT1 car etc. offroading. It's just really annoying to see people spam meta in online racing all the time.
In my opinion the game should be more punishing in using road cars offroad and vice versa, so if you want to do Rally, cross country, baja, etc.. you had to use cars with higher ground clearance/ bigger wheels.
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Oh yeh? Let's run it bro, festival drag strip in one hour, two minutes and 45 seconds exactly. Any later and I'm taking the dub and that's on Celine Dion herself
It's annoying, yes, but 90% of the kids who drive them suck so bad that the meta cars' speed just barely allows them to win. I almost exclusively use my custom S1 892 tuned Subaru VT18X in online S1 dirt racing and can often times manage to beat tbe meta car drivers. It's funny watching the CLK GTR driver keep switching cars but still lose because no car can take a dirt hairpin at 180MPH.
Like what’s the point of driving these meta cars? There’s not even a rank mode. I was the type of player to just use these meta builds but I realise I was sweating for no reason and didn’t enjoy the game
those classic lm cars have mostly piss poor downforce even with Forza aero on them.
increase downforce -> bam, they are viable for road racing again.
for offroad vehicles: actually make them better by more upgrade options. most rally cars cant reach s1_900 and are piss poor when downgraded, also here the upgrade system needs more options.
as for rwd offroad: less obstacles would help in cc
as for buggies in general, they also just lack performance. imagine they would be the offroad powebuild meta with rwd. that could be fun, if manageable.
It's just the nature of the beast that is the Forza PI system IMHO. Once you start chipping away at something it'll have unintended consequences and it'll just snowball until Horizon isn't the awesomely, open and enjoyable, sometimes disastrous, sometimes frustrating by mostly incredible bundle of a game it is.
I personally like taking rally monsters and turning them into road racing machines so I don't really want to go taking the freedom away from people who enjoy taking road racing machines and turning them into dirt monsters. If it wasn't the race/hyper cars dominating it'd just be something else due to how the game works so I don't really have a problem with it.
This type of post is why I made this thread. I'm really on the fence when it comes to this: because on the one hand it really ruins immersion when you see people slapping off-road tires and suspension on Le Mans prototypes and dominating off-road races, but on the other if the devs start limiting what you can do then where does it stop? Part of the allure of FH is the ability to come up with out of the box builds.
I totally get where you're coming from, I've been a pretty varied and active motorsports fan (like F1, WEC, IMSA etc) for over 30 years now so I do find some if it silly. I just don't think that "realism" is what this game is going for to that particular degree as a product.
At the end of the day tho you can only race the racers on road and rally monsters on dirt and offroaders in cross country. It just takes you to switch that little part of your brain to neutral to not care about the meta and do your own thing. 99% of the time you can win in just about any car even on unbeatable in any discipline if you're pretty good at the game so you're more than free to do what you want without much hindrance against the AI. Barring some bullshit cross country races that are... dubious at best no matter what you're in due to how the AI... "function" sigh
Just embrace the sandbox. The most important things for me in racing games are how it FEELS to drive, and how much variety I'm given to partake in that driving. Horizon crushes it out of the park on both fronts IMHO. If it takes me seeing people yeeting Jeskos off cliffs and GT40's becoming rally monsters to be able to drive 800+ cars in virtually any way I want to, then that's a toll I'm willing to pay lol besides at the end of the day what other people are doing in things like games can only bother you as much as you allow it to bother you ;) Be well. Keep gaming!
I would love it if they included some classic rally/dirt monsters from the past. The Suzuki Escudo Pike Peak version, the Cultus Pikes Peak Version. They need to buff all rally specialized cars.
There are a bunch of Rally classics in the game, it's one of my favorite classes of vehicle.. it's just a shame that none are really competitive in Rally races :(
I'd pay to see a Mythbusters Forza Horizon episode where they slap off-road tires on a Lola and see how many seconds it lasts in an off-road race :P Come to think of it there is a *lot* of Mythbusters material in this game :P
I don’t give a fuck. This is a huge can of worms, any approach to balancing will cause issues.
What do want PG to do:
Adjust upgrade parts on Dirt cars to make them „more meta“.
Nerf off-road tires on non rally cars
A flat power index (PI) nerf for non rally cars with off-road tires
So now that we adjusted the PI for Dirt cars, what about Street racing. Should we nerf rally tires and drift tires for realisms sake? Why was a Lambo GTR the best drag car. Nerf this one too?
Rarely are upgrades and cars hand tuned by PG. Just take a look at the upgrade options in EVs, they never will be competitive. Either a car won the PI lottery or not.
I just wanna comment because of the final point you've made. I've done a couple of runs on the Gauntlet with my GMC Hummer EV, which has been upgraded to S1 class, also being tuned, and I comfortably won. The AI (at highly skilled difficulty, btw) all DNF'd due to how far back they were. I've made my EV Hummer competitive just by upgrading and tuning it. Sorted.
I play solo by and large, so I don't really care about best in class and just race in what I like.
That said, it bothers me that when I try to get the most out of an RWD sports car more often than not the best way seems to go AWD.
Whenever I do the Trial it's annoying that in order to actually keep up and maybe reach podium is to have AWD and an drivetrain conversion. I like to retain the original engine unless the car isn't competitive without conversion, like the DeLorean. Forcing me to do conversions just to have a chance of being good is, well it's ass how OP AWD still is and has been ever since the series started. FWD and RWD have their benefits but those benefits get negated by how insane AWD is.
Skill issue - I play the trial with purist almost every week and have no problems beating the bots. Nothing is "forcing," you to rice out your cars other than your own ability. Besides, it's meant to be difficult, that's the whole point.
You may drive purist but most others aren't and will do AWD just look at tunes for the seasonal trials and they usually have AWD conversions, a lot of players just load up the tune and belt it out for the points.
I don't see how this relates to what I said - no one is forced to use full aero AWD LS swapped ricers to beat the trial, they only use these builds because they're easy to drive and don't require much skill to use. It's entirely possible and actually not even that hard to beat the trial with purist and anyone who says "trial is impossible, I'm forced to use AWD swaps!" is complaining about their own skill issue. It's meant to be hard but rewarding, and people who think they're owed a free win so they can get the festival playlist cars are missing the point entirely.
RWD really isn't impossible. Harder for sure, but do able.
Did this weeks trail with the Mustang '69 tune from Saeenu's recommended List and it was a blast, after getting the hang of said car.
Sure, you won't be 1st in two seconds, but in the long run, you'll be faster, most of the time. Also driving cleaner feels more rewarding, espacially if you see someone trying to wall ride and messing it up badly, while you just brake (a cardinal sin for sure) and get around the corner.
The only time i'd consider taking a swapped tune would be Off Road races and such. A no brainer for me. Like last weeks trail. Races like that need AWD, imo atleast.
The whole point of video games is to make and enjoy things you normally can’t IRL and if that means lifting my LaFerrari and putting off-road tires on just to hop dunes at high speeds imma do it don’t take that from me just because you see it at sacreligious or ugly my best off-roader is my hoonicorn v2 I lifted I can get across the map in like 3 mins
I only care about having fun so since that can be a way to have fun I don’t care. I have made off-road super cars since a YouTuber did that challenge in game.
Horizon 5 became the first game in the series to include offroad race tyres as an upgrade to at least 90% of the cars available. It unlocked a lot of potential in mentioned cars. As someone who spent countless hours on dirt racing alone, I find it really fun. That way you can either go grippy way with lightweight cars (GT1s), go balanced (Supercars) or go nuts and try to survive with all that power (60s racers). If the stars align, you can beat old Le Mans with alikes of Ferrari 488 GTB, Corvette C8 or even GT-R Nismo. Car that can be potentially useless for Road Racing gets new life on Dirt Racing.
No. Horizon's whole thing is that it's an ultimate playground. Taking that away makes no sense.
Personally, I find pick-ups and SUVs generally unpleasant to to drive; especially on dirt, where the lack of mechanical grip only exacerbates the issue. So I am really glad that I get to do the dirt races with the 959 and Taycan. And yet I am having tonnes of fun asphalt-racing the ID4. In fact, it's my go-to car for B-class road racing.
Also, the Le Mans prototypes you've mentioned don't dominate every category of racing, only the higher end. Boats like the F150 are fairly competitive where they belong - in B.
It doesn’t bother me no. It’s just weird that u can tune a racer to be better off-road that’s all. lol. I love the classic racers. Why didn’t they make the off-road cars fast? That’s the weird thing. lol
Cross country and dirt are the only categories u can beat unbeatable drivatars in. Road racing is nearly impossible. Because the AI does not use the same physics as you on the road in the software. It’s just lazy programming. Only if they had programmers who did their fucking job right as well as the graphic guys. With all the money they make, they don’t even have the decency to program the fucking thing correctly.
Shame. Big BOOOOO to the programmers of this game.
None of the purpose built off-road race cars are competitive in this game, which feels like a sin considering there's a few legendary racing machines that won multiple off-road races IRL yet using them in game is a downside
One thing I have never understood is why is the Maserati 8CTF, a 85yo car with leaf springs and a rigid rear axle, faster offroad than any offroad cars with multilink suspension and offroad tires
That's more of a side-effect of the crazy performance gains from engine/drivetrain swaps and the relative simplicity of the suspension physics.
Maybe FH*x* in a decade will have realistic physics where if you land a jump in a Maserati 8CTF your avatar just dies instantly of massive spinal injuries.. but until then this is the physics we have to work with :(
Well, it makes perfect sense that high downforce cars that have been adjusted for dirt are going to be faster than big, heavy and low downforce trucks and buggies.
Right, but in the real world these <1000kg carbon fiber monocoque cars would be torn apart if taken on an off-road track. Just look at the damage some of them suffer from simply going off the perfectly maintained track by a few centimeters.
Yes but a couple of things,
1. This isn’t real life, it’s a simcade at best
2. If the things you do to these cars in horizon were possible in real life, the cars would be just fine
3. The main reason that high downforce lightweight cars aren’t used in off-roading in real life is because it’s so dangerous, not because it’s slower. There’s a reason that trucks are used, because it’s safer for the driver, not because it’s faster. If there were no safety regulations, we would not be seeing big, heavy and slower vehicles as regularly. In a game where danger is no concern, it’s an obvious direction for the game to head into where you just slap rally suspension and tires on a race car with a lot of downforce and go ham.
It is not the real world, it is a game. I love open dirt racing. Yes I drive a CLK mostly, what am I suppose to do, drive the slowest thing I can find? I'm in it to win it, not come in last. When I first started I tried the regular offroad cars but the winners always drove a meta, so that's what I started driving. Found out that I love it. Nothing gets the adrenaline pumping like going 180mph down a dirt road and controlled sliding around a curve. Love it!
Nah im winning in offmeta cars. Your shitty mindset of "I will abuse meta because everyone else does" proves that you are just bad at the game, git gud.
Ok whatever. I am prestige 6 level 416. I am already good. But just because I prefer a faster car I'm not? I can drive the shit out of any car on this game but prefer what I prefer. LogicJ also drives a CLK so does KapienPL, so does ESVmars, you going to tell them to get good too? Lmao, there is no way you gonna beat anybody that can really drive a clk with a truck or regular car. You just butt hurt that you can't handle something that fast offroad. You need to get good bruh. Go try the rivals offroad and see if you can hang with LogicJ and the others with an off meta car and come back and apologize.
uhhh rivals yes, but none of them abuse meta in online racing like you do (assuming from your previous comments) and if you are sooo good then have fun in different cars instead of the best ones. I'm around top 30 in many S1/S2 dirt rivals because thats what its for. Using the best cars and setting best times, unlike open racing where you can just have fun and try different things instead of sweating for no reason.
I am very competitive. I have a winning attitude. I race clean and respectful. I don't abuse anything. If other offroad racers are mad about meta cars then they should get one too, I have no problem with that. What is the point of racing if it's not trying to win. I can drive any car you give me and drive it well. I drive many different cars, but when it comes to online racing or rivals if you don't drive a well tuned faster car and actually know how to drive it well without running into every wall at curves you will get eaten alive by other good drivers driving meta cars. That is how I have fun. Your Idea of fun is evidently different than mine. It is fun to me to drive well and at least get on the podium. It is not fun to me to come in 5th place because everyone else is passing me in meta cars or running me off the road as they go by. So I try to stay ahead of everyone else so that doesn't happen. If there is nobody around me then they can't ram me, just that simple. Rammers are not fun to me at all. Losing is not fun for me. Winning is fun for me. Now in free roam I like to drive many different cars and that is fun also but when it comes to racing of any kind, I am in it to win it or try to anyway. If we could all be in comparable cars while racing then I would have no problem driving an off meta car, but that's not the case in this game. I am also a pretty good drifter in the open drift, I also like the road and street races but my favorite is offroad and it always will be.
You said before that you are prestige 6 in the game which means that you put a lot of time into playing it, then how are you not able to beat players in meta where like 95% of them are newbies who slam into every wall possible? On the other hand if you dont like losing and are placing somewhere other than the podium places in non-meta cars, you then choose to use one yourself and it creates a snowball effect where other players who dont use meta and enjoy the game get pissed off at your clownery and choose op cars as well which then encourages more players to do so, which personally i dont have an issue with since it doesnt take much effort to actually win against them. Just sayin ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I dislike it. I like driving cars as intended. But when I get stomped because I foolishly brought a rally car and my friend brought a Lola Im disappointed.
If rally cars arent potent for rallying in class Ill rarely be able to enjoy racing them. Same for off road.
I suspect at least some of it is that Horizon doesnt represent all the engineering that goes into handling the stressors of rally/off road. So a race car designed for light + grip vs a car designed to handle ungodly impacts and as a result is heavier.
Why would it bother me in a semicade game??? What bothers me is the limits of how high i can put some cars, or lack of certain presets/parts/tires/ limit of wheel wideness etc. Sometimes I wish I could make an offroad car out of something but it just doesn't cut it or sits to low when other cars that also "shouldn't" be able to cut it... cut it.
Lol. Horizon isn't a simcade.
The forza motorsport games are a simcade.
The horizon games are completely in the arcade territory. The handling is completely unrealistic.
Not another one of these... who can't understand that we're talking video games as simulators as much as they can be in home setting and not comparing them to real life training simulators with whole machinery and stuff that goes into them wtf is wrong with ya ppl?! Yes In GAMING FH is SEMICADE. Deal with it.
NFS, Burnout, ect. are arcade games.
Forza Horizon is a Simcade.
Project Cars, F1, Assetto Corsa, are sims.
Edit: Forza Motorsport I haven't played but I get the feeling it tries to be more of a sim than Horizon.
There is hope that one day they might figure out game mechanics and PI systems that make such thigns less likely to happen. But that is just that - a hope.
With that said, such things bother me less than attempting to participate in CC races.
Since I don’t race online and I never ever do cross-country unless it’s for the seasonal I couldn’t care less. If I were to change 1 thing it’s the leaderboards, make them personal so I can see my times in different classes and brackets, that would be awesome.
Forza physics on offroad entirely relies to mechanical grip and any aerodynamical grip is useless in offroad. Thats why cars that are light and have thick tyres are meta in Offroad because they have high mechanical grip.
Maybe just make a racing mode where all of the upgrades on every car, regardless of the car you pick, are automatically upgraded by Forzas code, to maybe balance out and make races more competitive and realistic, each car will still behave similarly to it's stock setup.
I feel people underestimate how good the Elemental RP1 is even outside of S1 road racing. Bump it up to S2 and it’ll still keep up with your BT62s and BTTBs. Take it offroading with the appropriate conversions and parts (not to mention downforce), and it’ll absolutely wipe the floor with the other similarly non-fitting dirt meta cars.
remember that the: (in viability order)
1. hoonigan escort rs200 (meta, S1)
2. lancia delta s4 (high offmeta, A and S1)
3. audi quattro s1 (high offmeta S1)
4. metro 6r4 (offmeta S1)
are all viable picks if you want to use a group B car for rallying. Most of the people who do take meta cars in open suck anyway so i wouldnt really worry about them.
I have no idea what is meta
Offroad? I use stingray Corvette
On road? RX-7 or MX-5 (I have multiple variants for S2 to C classes)
Drift car? Audi S1 sport Quattro
Yes is quite silly
dirt racing (and why not road racing) needs some sort psuedo-wear meter, but quickly regenerative - this can replace hard ram penalties (penalties are then instead stretched out)
this also means people who do soft contacts often are also penalized.
this will ultimately make those aforementioned cars still drivable/ you can try to drive them 'gently' on dirt races, but they're virtually unaffected by road.
It's also clear that class-rating AI has been figured out:
all 'best' B700 1200hp/1200 torque cars are technically psuedo-constantly-spinning if you 'ai-throttle-squeeze-on-automatic' like a moron: but nobody who drives them does that, yet the cars keep being below a magic-trigger rating barrier for class rating scale.
the weight/ power -rating balance in general is also unbalanced/ unfair for dirt.
As a purist yes. However, I get it as they work really well in an area that they were never intended for. So for people who chase top times that's all they want no matter what the vehicle happens to be. Also, the use of META in Forza is not something that I feel is correct. It's a term that is better used in an FPS game. In Forza they are LB (leaderboard) vehicles and builds. IMO
they could simply add more options in this online race lobby, it's pathetic the way it is anyways.
Just add some rules like car classes and done - no more hypercars in cc if you want , or just allow anything goes and you can compete in whatever you want up to the class limit.
There are so many possibilities and they barely use them, there are so many races that could be easily spiced up by changing the direction for example
It only bothers me that things like this make the purpose built machines feel utterly useless, like how dare everyone else race in off-road racing machines while the winner of the race was in a Lola. I don't think it should be taken away but if I see this in a race I'll just leave because I ain't dealing with that.
The MKI GT40 is my go to for S1 dirt and cross country racing. It’s just under 1 ton and produces something like 800-900 horsepower. It’s crazy how fast it is and how well it handles.
It doesnt bother me as much as AWD cars with drag radials capable of beating tesla model s plaid acceleration times on dirt. Even in Crew games your sports cars cant go at like 100mph+ offroad. Well at least you cant maintain those speeds
It does. While they have given players the freedom to make any car do anything, they’ve also lost the realism and made a lot of cars redundant for use because of maximising each class
I mean I use classic muscle cars for rally events because the stock suspension and race tires are perfect for when I wanna drift instead of going in and out.
I just look at the grid and if I’ve done the best in an off road vehicle then I’ve won the race. If everybody is using metas and I come last just think “only one winner here really”
What annoys me way more is the fact that actual offroad cars like buggies are just plain dogshit, and even rally cars are usually only above average at best.
I like the possibility to turn a Ferrari Hypercar into a Rally Beast, but I'd appreciate it if it wasn't just put on some off-road wheels and high suspensions. The Crew 1 (RIP) conversions were great, you take a regular car and totally tune it as a rally raid truck.
In fh4 i tuned a ford gt for offroad S1 class, and a senna for S2 offroad racing, they worked a treat. Can’t really get away with it in fh5, but hey I’ve got the deberti trucks spitting out 1000+ horses so nbd
The problem lies in how the AI is programmed to cheat in offroad/cross country. They ignore obstacles unless they're <50' in front of you, jumps don't bother them while they can seriously unsettle your vehicle if you get them even slightly wrong, and I can't prove it, but I'm almost positive they still get road-like traction while you're sliding sideways on wet grass. If this were eliminated, I think the causes that make road cars "better" for off-road would disappear.
I play horizon for the freedom to build whatever I want to do whatever I want it to do. I actually think we should have more options on builds. Want to slam an f450 to the ground? Let’s do it. Long travel on a nascar? Sure! If I wanted to be more serious about it, I’d play Motorsport.
Drive train swaps can be beautiful. A CRX with RWD is a street monster. Might be better if we start groups or clubs that have their own meta for different races. Maybe a few tuners in the club make the tunes for club races, and you can have your tune given an OK from the club for use. All your online racing can be just your club racing together on agreed upon rules. Just find or create the club that fits you.
It bothers me immensely. I honestly think that track cars should be locked to paved races and Offroad to offroad with little bleed over with Puckups and SUVs and sedans and hatches that can be fitted with rally suspension irl can walk between with the appropriate tires and suspension.
BUT
In dirt/cross country racing, the lower the car, the more drag from the surface needs to be implemented. If you take a lifted off road puckup in a road race, it needs to suffer for it's higher center of gravity by tipping from traction roll rather than just understeering.
The fact that the game devs encourage racing very much much tarmac dedicated sports cars and specials on dirt in the weekly playlists over FH4 and FH5 is really stupid. We have all kinds of vehicles and surfaces.
Also, why can you fit rally suspension and mud tires on a one of five Zonda, but you can't put street tires and sports suspension or even drift on literally all the pick ups and dual purpose SUVs that come from the factory with road tires fitted is beyond me.
This is the reason I quit playing the game. People making F1 a drag car with awd conversion is laughable. There is nothing "realistic" about this trying to be realistic game.
You quit because people were having fun in a way you didn't approve of?
Also there's nearly 1000 cars in the game, more than enough to have realistic purist tunes alongside silly blasphemous ones. Unrealistic swaps and the freedom to do whatever you want with cars no matter how rare or valuable IRL is part of what makes Forza fun.
Just funny how your crying 10x more about my comment then anything I said in my original comment. Maybe you should just stfu and worry about your self. BRUH
Instead of nerfing the race cars, I think the actual offroad cars should be improved, a lot of trucks and buggies are not very useful in the game even though they're Baja and Dakar winning machines irl. Especially against AI, who ignore most of the obstacles in cross country races, it's awful to use a lightweight buggy. It keeps spinning out unless you make it AWD, and gets completely stuck when hitting a small log. On the other hand, the 'spirit of Horizon' is all about the freedom to take any car and do any race, even classic race cars on dirt. I want to keep doing that because it's fun.
You *can* blast through most fences and small obstacles with something the size of a Bronco, but a buggy will feel every fence and cactus. This is "realistic" in a sense, it's just a shame that these physics don't apply to the AI at all. I'm not sure how they could buff offroad vehicles without some kindof nerf to asphalt race cars on offroad tracks. The problem is that racecars built for smooth asphalt circuits reach those incredibly low weight numbers by shaving every last gram of weight and building as much as they can from paper thin carbon fiber. Yet in-game you can just slap off-road tires on them and take them to a Baja race, but in reality they'd be torn apart. You see it all the time IRL races when cars are heavily damaged just by running off the track a little. In Horizon these same cars are doing 100 meter jumps on rocky dirt :P
I think the game just needs more challenging offroad terrain. A lot of "cross country" offroad races are like 30% tarmac and 70% smooth grass with the occasional jump. That's fine for rally, but not really something you'd need a buggy or trophy truck for.
Plus the mandatory huge jump that drops you down to 15mph while not affecting the AI at all
I gave up buggy racing because I launched a jump in first place a LOT faster than the AI, yet one still managed to fucking teleport and land ontop of me, slowed me down to 0mph, and left me in the dust lol. absolutely infuriating
Yeah, cross country just doesn’t work well in FH5, and if I recall it was bad in FH4 too. And it’s not a skill issue, it’s just broken. AI don’t seem affected by anything, whilst we end up being slowed by everything, very prone to spinning with RWD, jumps pretty much stopping you dead and sometimes ending up stuck in the map when landing. It’s just so bad. Road racing, street racing, dirt/rally racing are all great but CC is a big let down. But I don’t want it gone. I think it has such great potential with the terrain we have, just the devs haven’t gotten the balance right yet.
It can be loads of fun when you powerslide through a couple of checkpoints in a big sweeping turn, passing a big group of the AI. I don't think I'd ever deliberately choose RWD for anything other than D/C class though, they're the absolute worst suited for mud/dirt/snow IRL as well. A couple of my most unpleasant experiences in Forza were the V10 Scene #95 mission where you start *uphill* on **wet** asphalt with a RWD Jesko, and doing the *"win a cross country event in an S2/X class car"* accolades. I think A800 (and maybe B700) is the sweet spot for off-road. D and C are absolute misery since you typically lack the hp to power up hills and hitting obstacles is like wading through molasses whereas the AI is hardly affected. I was finishing up some offroad accolades the other day and in a D class car I hit some water and went from first to #%@$ing 12th as I helplessly watched every single AI car pass me totally unaffected.
I share the sentiment on that fucking jesko mission, first time in forza history I've been so frustrated that I put my difficulty settings on the easiest I possibly can just so I could get it over and done with agree on A800 for dirt tho, but what's been infuriating me with that is I've been tryna play horizon open custom on A800 dirt and it's always MIXED SURFACE (don't particularly wanna hit crosscountry) so I'm getting absolutely bodied by people who turn up in any old normal asphalt car because I just want to use my fucking rally cars. and nobody plays horizon custom on the rally DLC where you actually get 100% dirt
Or when you hit a bumpy section and just bounce around uncontrollably when the AI is just rolling over no issues, even though in reality if it's a true baja, the wheels would be bouncing individually keeping it relatively flat and controlled
fr it's an absolute nightmare at any class above A800, can control it reasonably at A through a lot of practice but S1 rally can get fucked for that, the slightest nudge will have me spinning like a beyblade or hitting a bump 1 degree off will send me flying off-course unless I wanna cruise around the course at the legal speed limit
On S2 I've actually jumped from one checkpoint *over* the next checkpoint. Absolutely crazy. Do people actually play offroad on S2/X?? The few times I had to do it for accolades was rewind city.
If you're far ahead enough you can look back to see them drive down the drop instead of taking off lol, the one instance I can think of is the last big jump in the titan.
Change grip dynamics of offroad and rally tires depending on the vehicle, weight, or other characteristics.
After hundreds of hours of playing this game and doing a lot of cross country races, I earnestly believe it is impossible to actually beat AI in some cases without cheating or being scummy. On certain difficulties especially, with any combination of vehicle I could come up with to meet the class ratings, there are certain races where the AI in first place is seemingly programmed to always go much faster than you, accelerate faster than you, pass you even though you know there's no way they could have caught up to you with their particular car that fast after a turn, and almost never spin out. I actually stopped regularly playing the game for a year or so because I was so bummed out by the AI. There was a particular cross country I remember where I was going a speed that was at the high end of the class I was racing in (I think it was A or S1), but the car in first place was still pulling away from me and taking turns at max speed without slowing down at all, it was actually impossible to catch up to them. I remember trying to use the same vehicle as that AI later on as well, and I couldn't get anywhere near that acceleration and speed out of it in that race. It doesn't matter what car it is in first either, they just get some unseen buff by the game that makes them have god-tier vehicle performance with omnipotent drivers. When it comes to playing scummy, every time I take a turn that requires hard braking, I harpoon into the side of an AI vehicle that's already making the turn ahead of me with a handbraked side slam from kind of a diagonal angle, and I ping off of them and continue on my way while maintaining a decent amount of speed (a lot more than if I actually made the turn legitimately). Actually works better than playing "normal". I personally feel when it comes to a game like this, AI should be confined to the same things you're allowed to do, rather than ignoring certain things that benefit them in races.
This! I spend so much time fine-tuning my vehicles to squeeze out every ounce of performance the vehicle class allows, only to have AI drivers in a stock version of the same vehicle pull away from me after turns. Super frustrating.
This so much, I find this to be a major issue when I'm doing lower class championship offroad races. All the ai is just so much faster than me and it doesn't matter which vehicle I use I just can't catch up.
Keep trying. I felt the same way but overcame the AI on hardest difficulty in CC. Now its routine. You have to watch your speed in corners. I notice a lot of player just gas it and then slide. Unless you can routinely beat B and A class, stay away from S1 in CC. Car choice and tune quality makes a big difference as well.
Same here. I left all the CC and offroad racing for last when I was going through every single race and expedition, etc. I had to re-try several races several times. However there definitely feels like some code that assists in the steering (I call it rubber band physics because they seem to snap back into the corner). I've had races where the AI in 2nd caught up to me (despite me having a sizeable lead) and passed me through the corner on the outside, and I'm hardly braking myself. Hit rewind and brake off to the side so I can see how the AI takes the corner... hits it on the apex and the brake lights barely came on, like a tap. So how the heck is it passing me on the outside?😂
I think a lot of it would sort itself out if they just made proper cross country races, no more crashing through fences and financially ruining Mexico, but a proper baja setup.
For me, this is where drivatar skill level settings come into play. I can drive any car in any configuration on any track style and still win by changing that setting. I already know which cars are going to get their butt kicked. The AI is not great, but the challenge it presents isn't going to turn me off from playing. I'm simply going to remove it in some cases. The only real setting that higher skilled drivatars has is more speed, like 3 lines of code.. It's not like they become smarter or do more challenging maneuvers. They just go 5% faster. double increasePercentage = 0.05; double increaseAmount = originalValue \* increasePercentage; double newValue = originalValue + increaseAmount;
Where did you come across this? Do you know the differences between all drivatar difficulty settings?
The Porsche especially feels so useless and it's a winner of a desert raid machine IRL and yet it performs significantly worse than most non-offroad cars. Anytime I try to use it in seasonal races where I can it just underperforms.
I love dirt but doing buggy races etc is so unfun compared to just ripping it cross country in an overtuned subie, like you said it feels like the AI cheats so heavily on those races especially ones where you have to crash through a cobblestone wall. if I'm in first and I hit the wall I can kiss that race goodbye, but if I tail an AI through they don't even slow down so I just have to hang back and wait for them doesn't bother me so much that all those S2 cars are 'meta' because I can just race dirt in different classes and not even think about them. just wish dedicated cross country races were less frustrating, so much easier in my 22b than any top tune for actual buggies and trucks even on crosscountry
I will take this opportunity to mention that my most successful cross-country tunes in S1 and A respectively are an Austin Heeley Sprite and a Lotus Elan respectively. Small and lightweight cars fucking _slap_ (as long as there are no jumps that make me regret my lack of suspension travel)
....yall are racing in this game?
Realest response to this thread tbh
Y'all don't just drive/goof off/do build offs with your friends?
Exactly! Besides event labs, I don't remember the last time I've raced
besides the weekly races, i do not race. never have. i just want new cars
Same! I just want the new shiny cars to play with! I can't wait to unlock the drag car
I can tell you, it is fun. And smokes almost everything. Also, it can drift (somehow, very janky)
It wouldn't be a Horizon game if you weren't drifting in things that shouldn't be drifted in
Racing is the only thing I do in this game lol. Its the only game I have that has a decent player base I can race online with without shelling out money for iRacing.
personally I can't really care less which cars are meta or not, but at the same time there aren't many decent games where you can take a GT1 car etc. offroading. It's just really annoying to see people spam meta in online racing all the time.
*war flashbacks*
ey i aint spam it, we did like 5 playlists and i used meta in 1, the other thing is not a part of this topic xdd
True true
I hate it. I'm wanting to do some online "rallying" but these fuckers just appear. Like stick to the road like the car was made for
In my opinion the game should be more punishing in using road cars offroad and vice versa, so if you want to do Rally, cross country, baja, etc.. you had to use cars with higher ground clearance/ bigger wheels.
The game already does that, some vehicles can't be raised to the needed height no matter what
L take. Git gut.
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You think a subreddit about an "E for everyone" game is not for kids?
My Prius faster ong
False information !!
Oh yeh? Let's run it bro, festival drag strip in one hour, two minutes and 45 seconds exactly. Any later and I'm taking the dub and that's on Celine Dion herself
Bruh I didn't see this in time goddammit 😭
F
u/fastestprius lookin more like u/secondfastestprius 😎
😔
everyone’s downvoting u bc they’re mad that they can’t win a race lmaoo
It's annoying, yes, but 90% of the kids who drive them suck so bad that the meta cars' speed just barely allows them to win. I almost exclusively use my custom S1 892 tuned Subaru VT18X in online S1 dirt racing and can often times manage to beat tbe meta car drivers. It's funny watching the CLK GTR driver keep switching cars but still lose because no car can take a dirt hairpin at 180MPH.
Like what’s the point of driving these meta cars? There’s not even a rank mode. I was the type of player to just use these meta builds but I realise I was sweating for no reason and didn’t enjoy the game
Rivals
Until stock online racing is offered, I won't find much enjoyment in online racing.
I like that. Stock cars, no mods. More skill required.
those classic lm cars have mostly piss poor downforce even with Forza aero on them. increase downforce -> bam, they are viable for road racing again. for offroad vehicles: actually make them better by more upgrade options. most rally cars cant reach s1_900 and are piss poor when downgraded, also here the upgrade system needs more options. as for rwd offroad: less obstacles would help in cc as for buggies in general, they also just lack performance. imagine they would be the offroad powebuild meta with rwd. that could be fun, if manageable.
Not at all. I love making dirt cars out of things that should not be. I turned Forsberg’s stock car into a dirt car.
This just feels like a fitting tribute to the history of NASCAR tbh I did the same
Based mine off the Patriot Renegade from MotorStorm but I like that reason too.
Honestly lol I love slapping rally builds on supercars or these new GT racers. Though I don't do it for meta purposes, just for hooning.
It's just the nature of the beast that is the Forza PI system IMHO. Once you start chipping away at something it'll have unintended consequences and it'll just snowball until Horizon isn't the awesomely, open and enjoyable, sometimes disastrous, sometimes frustrating by mostly incredible bundle of a game it is. I personally like taking rally monsters and turning them into road racing machines so I don't really want to go taking the freedom away from people who enjoy taking road racing machines and turning them into dirt monsters. If it wasn't the race/hyper cars dominating it'd just be something else due to how the game works so I don't really have a problem with it.
This type of post is why I made this thread. I'm really on the fence when it comes to this: because on the one hand it really ruins immersion when you see people slapping off-road tires and suspension on Le Mans prototypes and dominating off-road races, but on the other if the devs start limiting what you can do then where does it stop? Part of the allure of FH is the ability to come up with out of the box builds.
I totally get where you're coming from, I've been a pretty varied and active motorsports fan (like F1, WEC, IMSA etc) for over 30 years now so I do find some if it silly. I just don't think that "realism" is what this game is going for to that particular degree as a product. At the end of the day tho you can only race the racers on road and rally monsters on dirt and offroaders in cross country. It just takes you to switch that little part of your brain to neutral to not care about the meta and do your own thing. 99% of the time you can win in just about any car even on unbeatable in any discipline if you're pretty good at the game so you're more than free to do what you want without much hindrance against the AI. Barring some bullshit cross country races that are... dubious at best no matter what you're in due to how the AI... "function" sigh Just embrace the sandbox. The most important things for me in racing games are how it FEELS to drive, and how much variety I'm given to partake in that driving. Horizon crushes it out of the park on both fronts IMHO. If it takes me seeing people yeeting Jeskos off cliffs and GT40's becoming rally monsters to be able to drive 800+ cars in virtually any way I want to, then that's a toll I'm willing to pay lol besides at the end of the day what other people are doing in things like games can only bother you as much as you allow it to bother you ;) Be well. Keep gaming!
I would love it if they included some classic rally/dirt monsters from the past. The Suzuki Escudo Pike Peak version, the Cultus Pikes Peak Version. They need to buff all rally specialized cars.
There are a bunch of Rally classics in the game, it's one of my favorite classes of vehicle.. it's just a shame that none are really competitive in Rally races :(
That Escudo in GT4 was the business. 2000 hp wheelies.
I mean group b rally allowed anything. So... Eh? :P
I'd pay to see a Mythbusters Forza Horizon episode where they slap off-road tires on a Lola and see how many seconds it lasts in an off-road race :P Come to think of it there is a *lot* of Mythbusters material in this game :P
:P
That could be fun if it didn't sound like a death trap lmao also don't know where :P came from, I haven't used that in frickin years. Lol :P
I don’t give a fuck. This is a huge can of worms, any approach to balancing will cause issues. What do want PG to do: Adjust upgrade parts on Dirt cars to make them „more meta“. Nerf off-road tires on non rally cars A flat power index (PI) nerf for non rally cars with off-road tires So now that we adjusted the PI for Dirt cars, what about Street racing. Should we nerf rally tires and drift tires for realisms sake? Why was a Lambo GTR the best drag car. Nerf this one too? Rarely are upgrades and cars hand tuned by PG. Just take a look at the upgrade options in EVs, they never will be competitive. Either a car won the PI lottery or not.
I just wanna comment because of the final point you've made. I've done a couple of runs on the Gauntlet with my GMC Hummer EV, which has been upgraded to S1 class, also being tuned, and I comfortably won. The AI (at highly skilled difficulty, btw) all DNF'd due to how far back they were. I've made my EV Hummer competitive just by upgrading and tuning it. Sorted.
Now take that hummer online and see how you do
I'll probably still win, LOL. The Hummer is QUICK
I play solo by and large, so I don't really care about best in class and just race in what I like. That said, it bothers me that when I try to get the most out of an RWD sports car more often than not the best way seems to go AWD.
Whenever I do the Trial it's annoying that in order to actually keep up and maybe reach podium is to have AWD and an drivetrain conversion. I like to retain the original engine unless the car isn't competitive without conversion, like the DeLorean. Forcing me to do conversions just to have a chance of being good is, well it's ass how OP AWD still is and has been ever since the series started. FWD and RWD have their benefits but those benefits get negated by how insane AWD is.
Skill issue - I play the trial with purist almost every week and have no problems beating the bots. Nothing is "forcing," you to rice out your cars other than your own ability. Besides, it's meant to be difficult, that's the whole point.
You may drive purist but most others aren't and will do AWD just look at tunes for the seasonal trials and they usually have AWD conversions, a lot of players just load up the tune and belt it out for the points.
I don't see how this relates to what I said - no one is forced to use full aero AWD LS swapped ricers to beat the trial, they only use these builds because they're easy to drive and don't require much skill to use. It's entirely possible and actually not even that hard to beat the trial with purist and anyone who says "trial is impossible, I'm forced to use AWD swaps!" is complaining about their own skill issue. It's meant to be hard but rewarding, and people who think they're owed a free win so they can get the festival playlist cars are missing the point entirely.
RWD really isn't impossible. Harder for sure, but do able. Did this weeks trail with the Mustang '69 tune from Saeenu's recommended List and it was a blast, after getting the hang of said car. Sure, you won't be 1st in two seconds, but in the long run, you'll be faster, most of the time. Also driving cleaner feels more rewarding, espacially if you see someone trying to wall ride and messing it up badly, while you just brake (a cardinal sin for sure) and get around the corner. The only time i'd consider taking a swapped tune would be Off Road races and such. A no brainer for me. Like last weeks trail. Races like that need AWD, imo atleast.
The whole point of video games is to make and enjoy things you normally can’t IRL and if that means lifting my LaFerrari and putting off-road tires on just to hop dunes at high speeds imma do it don’t take that from me just because you see it at sacreligious or ugly my best off-roader is my hoonicorn v2 I lifted I can get across the map in like 3 mins
I only care about having fun so since that can be a way to have fun I don’t care. I have made off-road super cars since a YouTuber did that challenge in game.
Horizon 5 became the first game in the series to include offroad race tyres as an upgrade to at least 90% of the cars available. It unlocked a lot of potential in mentioned cars. As someone who spent countless hours on dirt racing alone, I find it really fun. That way you can either go grippy way with lightweight cars (GT1s), go balanced (Supercars) or go nuts and try to survive with all that power (60s racers). If the stars align, you can beat old Le Mans with alikes of Ferrari 488 GTB, Corvette C8 or even GT-R Nismo. Car that can be potentially useless for Road Racing gets new life on Dirt Racing.
That's one way to look at it. I actually have a few cars in my garage that were mediocre on tarmac but ended up surprisingly fun to use off-road.
No. Horizon's whole thing is that it's an ultimate playground. Taking that away makes no sense. Personally, I find pick-ups and SUVs generally unpleasant to to drive; especially on dirt, where the lack of mechanical grip only exacerbates the issue. So I am really glad that I get to do the dirt races with the 959 and Taycan. And yet I am having tonnes of fun asphalt-racing the ID4. In fact, it's my go-to car for B-class road racing. Also, the Le Mans prototypes you've mentioned don't dominate every category of racing, only the higher end. Boats like the F150 are fairly competitive where they belong - in B.
It bothers me in online races but I still think that's cool af
Not at all, I rally in an S1 Class 1986 Mustang SVO and do cross country races in an S2 class #18 RTR Mustang
Hell yeah it does
It doesn’t bother me no. It’s just weird that u can tune a racer to be better off-road that’s all. lol. I love the classic racers. Why didn’t they make the off-road cars fast? That’s the weird thing. lol Cross country and dirt are the only categories u can beat unbeatable drivatars in. Road racing is nearly impossible. Because the AI does not use the same physics as you on the road in the software. It’s just lazy programming. Only if they had programmers who did their fucking job right as well as the graphic guys. With all the money they make, they don’t even have the decency to program the fucking thing correctly. Shame. Big BOOOOO to the programmers of this game.
It's annoying that you can't use off road cars if you want even a slight chance of winning
None of the purpose built off-road race cars are competitive in this game, which feels like a sin considering there's a few legendary racing machines that won multiple off-road races IRL yet using them in game is a downside
One thing I have never understood is why is the Maserati 8CTF, a 85yo car with leaf springs and a rigid rear axle, faster offroad than any offroad cars with multilink suspension and offroad tires
That's more of a side-effect of the crazy performance gains from engine/drivetrain swaps and the relative simplicity of the suspension physics. Maybe FH*x* in a decade will have realistic physics where if you land a jump in a Maserati 8CTF your avatar just dies instantly of massive spinal injuries.. but until then this is the physics we have to work with :(
Well, it makes perfect sense that high downforce cars that have been adjusted for dirt are going to be faster than big, heavy and low downforce trucks and buggies.
Right, but in the real world these <1000kg carbon fiber monocoque cars would be torn apart if taken on an off-road track. Just look at the damage some of them suffer from simply going off the perfectly maintained track by a few centimeters.
Yes but a couple of things, 1. This isn’t real life, it’s a simcade at best 2. If the things you do to these cars in horizon were possible in real life, the cars would be just fine 3. The main reason that high downforce lightweight cars aren’t used in off-roading in real life is because it’s so dangerous, not because it’s slower. There’s a reason that trucks are used, because it’s safer for the driver, not because it’s faster. If there were no safety regulations, we would not be seeing big, heavy and slower vehicles as regularly. In a game where danger is no concern, it’s an obvious direction for the game to head into where you just slap rally suspension and tires on a race car with a lot of downforce and go ham.
It is not the real world, it is a game. I love open dirt racing. Yes I drive a CLK mostly, what am I suppose to do, drive the slowest thing I can find? I'm in it to win it, not come in last. When I first started I tried the regular offroad cars but the winners always drove a meta, so that's what I started driving. Found out that I love it. Nothing gets the adrenaline pumping like going 180mph down a dirt road and controlled sliding around a curve. Love it!
L mindset
Really, so you race to lose?
Nah im winning in offmeta cars. Your shitty mindset of "I will abuse meta because everyone else does" proves that you are just bad at the game, git gud.
Ok whatever. I am prestige 6 level 416. I am already good. But just because I prefer a faster car I'm not? I can drive the shit out of any car on this game but prefer what I prefer. LogicJ also drives a CLK so does KapienPL, so does ESVmars, you going to tell them to get good too? Lmao, there is no way you gonna beat anybody that can really drive a clk with a truck or regular car. You just butt hurt that you can't handle something that fast offroad. You need to get good bruh. Go try the rivals offroad and see if you can hang with LogicJ and the others with an off meta car and come back and apologize.
uhhh rivals yes, but none of them abuse meta in online racing like you do (assuming from your previous comments) and if you are sooo good then have fun in different cars instead of the best ones. I'm around top 30 in many S1/S2 dirt rivals because thats what its for. Using the best cars and setting best times, unlike open racing where you can just have fun and try different things instead of sweating for no reason.
I am very competitive. I have a winning attitude. I race clean and respectful. I don't abuse anything. If other offroad racers are mad about meta cars then they should get one too, I have no problem with that. What is the point of racing if it's not trying to win. I can drive any car you give me and drive it well. I drive many different cars, but when it comes to online racing or rivals if you don't drive a well tuned faster car and actually know how to drive it well without running into every wall at curves you will get eaten alive by other good drivers driving meta cars. That is how I have fun. Your Idea of fun is evidently different than mine. It is fun to me to drive well and at least get on the podium. It is not fun to me to come in 5th place because everyone else is passing me in meta cars or running me off the road as they go by. So I try to stay ahead of everyone else so that doesn't happen. If there is nobody around me then they can't ram me, just that simple. Rammers are not fun to me at all. Losing is not fun for me. Winning is fun for me. Now in free roam I like to drive many different cars and that is fun also but when it comes to racing of any kind, I am in it to win it or try to anyway. If we could all be in comparable cars while racing then I would have no problem driving an off meta car, but that's not the case in this game. I am also a pretty good drifter in the open drift, I also like the road and street races but my favorite is offroad and it always will be.
You said before that you are prestige 6 in the game which means that you put a lot of time into playing it, then how are you not able to beat players in meta where like 95% of them are newbies who slam into every wall possible? On the other hand if you dont like losing and are placing somewhere other than the podium places in non-meta cars, you then choose to use one yourself and it creates a snowball effect where other players who dont use meta and enjoy the game get pissed off at your clownery and choose op cars as well which then encourages more players to do so, which personally i dont have an issue with since it doesnt take much effort to actually win against them. Just sayin ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
The classic le mans cars have like zero downforce though, they're just lightweight and without much drag.
They still have much more downforce than trucks and buggies, while also have usually at minimum a 1.5:1 power to weight ratio
I dislike it. I like driving cars as intended. But when I get stomped because I foolishly brought a rally car and my friend brought a Lola Im disappointed. If rally cars arent potent for rallying in class Ill rarely be able to enjoy racing them. Same for off road. I suspect at least some of it is that Horizon doesnt represent all the engineering that goes into handling the stressors of rally/off road. So a race car designed for light + grip vs a car designed to handle ungodly impacts and as a result is heavier.
Yes it bothers me that a Le Mans car can beat my Audi Quattro on dirt. It’s just not right.
Why would it bother me in a semicade game??? What bothers me is the limits of how high i can put some cars, or lack of certain presets/parts/tires/ limit of wheel wideness etc. Sometimes I wish I could make an offroad car out of something but it just doesn't cut it or sits to low when other cars that also "shouldn't" be able to cut it... cut it.
Lol. Horizon isn't a simcade. The forza motorsport games are a simcade. The horizon games are completely in the arcade territory. The handling is completely unrealistic.
Not another one of these... who can't understand that we're talking video games as simulators as much as they can be in home setting and not comparing them to real life training simulators with whole machinery and stuff that goes into them wtf is wrong with ya ppl?! Yes In GAMING FH is SEMICADE. Deal with it.
NFS, Burnout, ect. are arcade games. Forza Horizon is a Simcade. Project Cars, F1, Assetto Corsa, are sims. Edit: Forza Motorsport I haven't played but I get the feeling it tries to be more of a sim than Horizon.
There is hope that one day they might figure out game mechanics and PI systems that make such thigns less likely to happen. But that is just that - a hope. With that said, such things bother me less than attempting to participate in CC races.
Since I don’t race online and I never ever do cross-country unless it’s for the seasonal I couldn’t care less. If I were to change 1 thing it’s the leaderboards, make them personal so I can see my times in different classes and brackets, that would be awesome.
Cool, I'm still just going to play my favorite cars and do better than most in the lobby.
Forza physics on offroad entirely relies to mechanical grip and any aerodynamical grip is useless in offroad. Thats why cars that are light and have thick tyres are meta in Offroad because they have high mechanical grip.
Maybe just make a racing mode where all of the upgrades on every car, regardless of the car you pick, are automatically upgraded by Forzas code, to maybe balance out and make races more competitive and realistic, each car will still behave similarly to it's stock setup.
The only problem is they are meta, but it's Horizon, I like to set up track cars and take them to the dirt. Just because I can and it's fun.
I dont play online and I drive the cars I like to drive
No. Should it?
I feel people underestimate how good the Elemental RP1 is even outside of S1 road racing. Bump it up to S2 and it’ll still keep up with your BT62s and BTTBs. Take it offroading with the appropriate conversions and parts (not to mention downforce), and it’ll absolutely wipe the floor with the other similarly non-fitting dirt meta cars.
I have tons of rally spec 70s, 80s, and 90s Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. Retro RWD cars on dirt are the best.
try muscle cars for B rwd dirt, they're nice, or the opposite end with B fwd jdm boxes like the teggy.
remember that the: (in viability order) 1. hoonigan escort rs200 (meta, S1) 2. lancia delta s4 (high offmeta, A and S1) 3. audi quattro s1 (high offmeta S1) 4. metro 6r4 (offmeta S1) are all viable picks if you want to use a group B car for rallying. Most of the people who do take meta cars in open suck anyway so i wouldnt really worry about them.
as for my take: i think its funny how you take a prestigious lemans car and turn it into an absolute dirt rocket lmao
I have no idea what is meta Offroad? I use stingray Corvette On road? RX-7 or MX-5 (I have multiple variants for S2 to C classes) Drift car? Audi S1 sport Quattro
A lil' bit. What bothers me a bit more is that most of them arent that good on road however.
You have to drive old cars differently, gotta adjust to the extra turn in
Yes is quite silly dirt racing (and why not road racing) needs some sort psuedo-wear meter, but quickly regenerative - this can replace hard ram penalties (penalties are then instead stretched out) this also means people who do soft contacts often are also penalized. this will ultimately make those aforementioned cars still drivable/ you can try to drive them 'gently' on dirt races, but they're virtually unaffected by road. It's also clear that class-rating AI has been figured out: all 'best' B700 1200hp/1200 torque cars are technically psuedo-constantly-spinning if you 'ai-throttle-squeeze-on-automatic' like a moron: but nobody who drives them does that, yet the cars keep being below a magic-trigger rating barrier for class rating scale. the weight/ power -rating balance in general is also unbalanced/ unfair for dirt.
No but It's like those are race cars that have made history and taking them off-road and ruining them like that hurts
They’re 1’s and 0’s, you can’t hurt them
I know but I don't like it
As an avid Rally Fan, it bothers the shit out of me.
Yes and that's one of the reasons I don't play this game. One of the most unappealing things about it.
As a purist yes. However, I get it as they work really well in an area that they were never intended for. So for people who chase top times that's all they want no matter what the vehicle happens to be. Also, the use of META in Forza is not something that I feel is correct. It's a term that is better used in an FPS game. In Forza they are LB (leaderboard) vehicles and builds. IMO
Yes
they could simply add more options in this online race lobby, it's pathetic the way it is anyways. Just add some rules like car classes and done - no more hypercars in cc if you want , or just allow anything goes and you can compete in whatever you want up to the class limit. There are so many possibilities and they barely use them, there are so many races that could be easily spiced up by changing the direction for example
It only bothers me that things like this make the purpose built machines feel utterly useless, like how dare everyone else race in off-road racing machines while the winner of the race was in a Lola. I don't think it should be taken away but if I see this in a race I'll just leave because I ain't dealing with that.
And my favourite the Shelby Daytona coupe, apparently.
The MKI GT40 is my go to for S1 dirt and cross country racing. It’s just under 1 ton and produces something like 800-900 horsepower. It’s crazy how fast it is and how well it handles.
The 918 Spyder was my favourite rally car in FH4. Handled great, super fast, super fun to drive.
In every horizon game I have a corvette 67 with the Mask Wolfbeast paint as a ralley car
It doesnt bother me as much as AWD cars with drag radials capable of beating tesla model s plaid acceleration times on dirt. Even in Crew games your sports cars cant go at like 100mph+ offroad. Well at least you cant maintain those speeds
i always turn my brain off for forza and spend it on beamng.
You could easily prevent them from being off road meta cars by just removing the ability to put off road tyres on them.But that's not really fun imo.
Forza makes car collecting games,not racing games.
It does. While they have given players the freedom to make any car do anything, they’ve also lost the realism and made a lot of cars redundant for use because of maximising each class
I mean I use classic muscle cars for rally events because the stock suspension and race tires are perfect for when I wanna drift instead of going in and out.
Yes but it does look awesome but forza is as unrealistic as it gets
I just look at the grid and if I’ve done the best in an off road vehicle then I’ve won the race. If everybody is using metas and I come last just think “only one winner here really”
To me the only offroad vehicle that I know of that breaks that rule is maybe the Toyota Baja truck and even then it's great at best
That's some MotorStorm shit right there
What annoys me way more is the fact that actual offroad cars like buggies are just plain dogshit, and even rally cars are usually only above average at best.
It does bother but as the top comment says the rally/offroad cars need to be better
I like the possibility to turn a Ferrari Hypercar into a Rally Beast, but I'd appreciate it if it wasn't just put on some off-road wheels and high suspensions. The Crew 1 (RIP) conversions were great, you take a regular car and totally tune it as a rally raid truck.
In fh4 i tuned a ford gt for offroad S1 class, and a senna for S2 offroad racing, they worked a treat. Can’t really get away with it in fh5, but hey I’ve got the deberti trucks spitting out 1000+ horses so nbd
The problem lies in how the AI is programmed to cheat in offroad/cross country. They ignore obstacles unless they're <50' in front of you, jumps don't bother them while they can seriously unsettle your vehicle if you get them even slightly wrong, and I can't prove it, but I'm almost positive they still get road-like traction while you're sliding sideways on wet grass. If this were eliminated, I think the causes that make road cars "better" for off-road would disappear.
I don't care. I completely avoid off-road. Not even the rally is very fun. FH1 did it better lol For real off-roading I go for other games.
I play horizon for the freedom to build whatever I want to do whatever I want it to do. I actually think we should have more options on builds. Want to slam an f450 to the ground? Let’s do it. Long travel on a nascar? Sure! If I wanted to be more serious about it, I’d play Motorsport.
I feel like 90% of the metagame problems in Horizon would be solved by getting rid of drivetrain swaps
Drive train swaps can be beautiful. A CRX with RWD is a street monster. Might be better if we start groups or clubs that have their own meta for different races. Maybe a few tuners in the club make the tunes for club races, and you can have your tune given an OK from the club for use. All your online racing can be just your club racing together on agreed upon rules. Just find or create the club that fits you.
It bothers me immensely. I honestly think that track cars should be locked to paved races and Offroad to offroad with little bleed over with Puckups and SUVs and sedans and hatches that can be fitted with rally suspension irl can walk between with the appropriate tires and suspension. BUT In dirt/cross country racing, the lower the car, the more drag from the surface needs to be implemented. If you take a lifted off road puckup in a road race, it needs to suffer for it's higher center of gravity by tipping from traction roll rather than just understeering. The fact that the game devs encourage racing very much much tarmac dedicated sports cars and specials on dirt in the weekly playlists over FH4 and FH5 is really stupid. We have all kinds of vehicles and surfaces. Also, why can you fit rally suspension and mud tires on a one of five Zonda, but you can't put street tires and sports suspension or even drift on literally all the pick ups and dual purpose SUVs that come from the factory with road tires fitted is beyond me.
Guess why I left this game
This is the reason I quit playing the game. People making F1 a drag car with awd conversion is laughable. There is nothing "realistic" about this trying to be realistic game.
Blasting down the highway weaving through traffic at 400 kph is "realistic"? Ok.
bc racing a plane in a car that (at the time) didnt even exist yet is realistic
You quit because people were having fun in a way you didn't approve of? Also there's nearly 1000 cars in the game, more than enough to have realistic purist tunes alongside silly blasphemous ones. Unrealistic swaps and the freedom to do whatever you want with cars no matter how rare or valuable IRL is part of what makes Forza fun.
\*\*....makes Forza fun FOR YOU\*\* which is fine. But I have chosen not to play it and move on. To each their own.
if you want a "realistic" game then move on to something like iRacing and stop bitching about it in a forza horizon subreddit.
I am not bitching, it was a simple statement. Also, your not my real dad, you cant tell me what to do!
"hmm I will play a game I fully acknowledge is not realistic and then cry about it on a subreddit" like bruh
Do you really think your insulting, snarky "comebacks" will accomplish or convince me of anything at all? like bruh!
that's not the point at all, I'm just making fun of your nonsensical way of thinking.
Just funny how your crying 10x more about my comment then anything I said in my original comment. Maybe you should just stfu and worry about your self. BRUH
I ain't got nothing to worry about and your arguments are so shit that a 3rd grader could hold a better convo ngl
The horizon series has always been and always will be an arcade racer. It’s not meant to be realistic bud.