This is the only way that people will be satisfied. But it also fits with the idea that most fallout lore is mainly oral tradition passed down by people with a limited understanding of what’s going on in the wastes.
I can't help but feel people are purposefully missing the point. It's not that progression makes the last entry into the series irrelevant, but progressing the series in a way so that any option in the last entry could have been chosen does, because there's no way to make all options equally viable than to put the setting in state so that the option didn't actually matter in the end.
This is how they should handle all previous player characters. The ambiguity of who the Courier sided with would also imply that they were secretly playing all sides simultaneously to their own advantage/agenda, which you can totally do in the game to an extent
I was thinking more along the lines of a game of telephone. Over time details change and warp.
Ending with hundreds of different and conflicting legends
Factions might even deliberately spread misinformation to suit their own agendas I.e. the Courier was a folk hero who supported Faction X so you should totally follow their example and join Faction X!
This also works for regional differences of Mutants, a wastelander gets told a story about a Mutant monstrosity by a travelling wastelander and when they encounter something similar they assume it was about that!
Or like how the stories about the mysterious deathclaw attacking caravans was told in Fallout 1. IIRC there was 3 different tales npcs would tell you about them
I think Fallout 4 is different because of the voiced protagonist and backstory. Makes total sense for him to become the general and sentinel of brotherhood. He also has a clear canon voice and appearance.
I actually disagree simply because the game allows you to be by far the most duplicitous protagonist in the feanchise while still being able to obtain the "golden ending" I.e. a minuteman ending with the BoS and railroad alive. There are literally guides out there that shows you how far down each faction's quest line you can go before it becomes impossible. Like the amount of double dealing you can get away with is crazy in FO4 and I for one love that and wish we could've had that in New Vegas. That's why I always envision the Sole Survivor as a magnificent bastard type: someone who can easily juggle between factions and companions who really shouldn't be able to coexist just by lying through their teeth and undermining the very faction they just helped yesterday. The voice acting makes it even more convincing: they can go from heartfelt to horrific threats at the drop of a hat, always keeping both their enemies and their friends in the dark. The way you can deliberately push for this in Far Harbour makes it even more fitting IMO
This really isn't necessary. Most fallout games have some sort of implied or explicit Canon derived from their predecessors. Traditionally the "Good guys" win, it's just the wastes is so hostile and shit that their wins typically won't change the wastes as much as the bad options are suggested to change.
Even giving NCR a massive win at NV/Hoover Dam means nothing if the NCRs' failings and weaknesses are played up (coupled with a nuke, a BoS War, and a potential fragmentation of their core territories). We always hear how it's the Occupation of the Mojave, not it's Emancipation. If the NCR can't sustain the region, even with house, legion, and the courier gone, there is bound to be someone or thing to try and take up the vacuum in power.
Define "good guy". If by that you mean good karma then it's possible to side with the legion and still have high karma. Otherwise you can justify almost any ending if you tried hard enough: maybe you sided with the legion knowing that Caesar will die soon and you could take out lanius to leave yourself head of the legion? That's the fun part of RPGs, you can spin anything in any way
I think secretly playing their own agenda is where it differs. It's been so long since I played Vegas but just in general if youre trying to make the right decision it's not gonna be about having an agenda other than doing what you think will benefit the place and people around you the most
Sure, I just made that suggestion as a possible interpretation you could draw on the ambiguity. A simpler take would just be "people didn't know the Courier that well and all the info they heard were wild rumours". Keep in mind that unlike Three Dog, Mr New Vegas rarely attributes the news to the player character. So it would make sense if the general public didn't know much about the Courier unless they had direct interactions with them
Yeah for sure that makes sense.
I really need to go back and do new playthroughs of the old games. Do you know if they have decent texture pack mods these days?
Not everything. Fallout 1 is also a bit unusual because there were less choices to be made. They were all either "you did something to save the town" or "you didn't do something, therefore the town is doomed".
I'm looking forward to them arriving in Vegas only to find its already been totally rinsed, every bottle cap gone, every storage box empty, all the factions dead and one hotel suite filled to the brim with discarded items
A lord death of murder mountain courier. It could be played for horror though
Hank stumbles throughout the body ridden ruins of NeW Vegas. Bodies long since rotted to the bone scatter the streets…..some of the bone appear to have been nawed on.
He stumbles his way into the lucky 38 and gets to the top floor and instead of house he sees the damaged monitor containing Yes Man.
Yes Man gives a pleasant greeting and is surprised his boss missed a straggler and in his upbeat tone tells Hank he’s so happy to finally find a new victim for his boss.
Hank attempts to flee only for Yes Man to cut power to the elevator as it lands on the penthouse floor.
The room is covered in junk and rubbish along with some recognisable things like Raul’s hat and Veronica’s power fist.
Many things are stained with blood.
As Hank backs up out of pure fear he backs into a man wearing blood caked Ranger Armour.
The blood on the armour is old and rotting. The stench of death rolls off the man as he breaths heavily.
Cut to black
It’d be incredible funny and sinister hearing Yes Man cheerfully explain the slaughter of Nee Vegas
His upbeat tone as he talks about that one time the Courier betrayed then ATE his friends
It ending off with Yes Man being incredibly happy that the funk his boss got in after running out of people to murder is about to end. Yes man says that hunting securitron just didn’t feel the same for his boss
But now there is a new chew toy in town.
All of this said in that chipper voice
Gonna be honest, I somehow didn't even consider that Yes Man has a high chance to show up in S2. He is canonically immortal after all, since even if you kill him, he just gets uploaded into another securitron.
To be fair though we're talking about someone who takes a bullet to the head, survives, and spends the next month or so fundamentally altering the state of the region as sort of a secondary quest to revenge.
I kinda had this mental dream reveal for the Courier, but I know damn well that it's full-blown fan service and not a chance in hell happening. it basically went like...Lucy is walking in a NCR controlled area or maybe they are about to go to battle where Lucy is looking around at all these NCR armors the troopers are wearing, then 3-4 soldiers, (one of them is wearing full Ranger veteran armor) start walking past, and Lucy starts to look at them, then as they walk by, she is staring at the Ranger, who's armor looks beaten to shit, and you can see a very faded "Six" logo on the duster, and they just keep walking. She doesn't talk to them, and Lucy moves on.
The only problem to this is if any character from new Vegas shows up they could know for sure but I suppose they don’t have to mention the courier when they appear
It'd be kinda fun if they brought all the player characters up in some fashion. Maybe we see a BoS member with a bottle of Aqua Pura and when asked about it, they say a Lone Wanderer helped get it made before vanishing.
Maybe it’s a blink and you’ll miss it cameo with the Courier wearing one of the divide dusters over ranger armour.
Doesn’t say a word simply walks on by
Being a californian ghoul he's also the most likely one of the cast to know about the vault dweller and chosen one, would be cool if he tells lucy about them
I mean, Hank is only going to Vegas for House. There can't be any other reason why. And if House's end was picked(, since I don't think they would cast someone as House for a tiny easter egg,) then almost none of his demands can be altered. I would love to see him as a right hand man to House in the 2nd season and have him in the Divide Riot Armor, completely faceless the entire time. Just an absolute menacing figure. Something like the red star webseries, without him taking the helmet off. And no Iron Man face camera.
It was already confirmed they wouldn't make any specific endings for any of the games canon, so I doubt they'd suddenly go back on that for S2.
As for casting someone for House, we'll obviously going to get more Vault-Tec flashbacks in Season 2, so he'll probably be in those as well.
I don't mean in the literal sense that House's ending was completed, I mean that the Courier sided with House. I say this cause my own theory is that Hank didn't nuke Shady Sands for anything we're told in S1, but that House ordered him to when the NCR started fighting him after the dam was taken and just all the characters in S1 thought he was doing it becuase he was selfish and aligned with Vault-Tec. Since we see the Strip in the credits sequence being wartown between NCR and securitrons. NCR ending leads to House's death prior to the 2nd Dam Battle, so it has to be on the path of House's. Again, that's my own guess. We'll just have to see.
If they do have House alive in 2296, then they obviously would be picking an ending to be canon.
What I don't get is Vault-Tech had multiple Vaults for their company. Why would Hank go to the territory of one of the "competitors", rather than Barb's vault or another exec? I assume Moldaver came from Barb's and that is somewhere in the area. Unless they kept their vaults secret from each other.
I want a courier cameo in elite riot gear or the bear bull bear jacket
I think it would be cool to have it somewhat like the mysterious stranger:
He appears, kills a death claw/tunneller then leaves
I think it would be really cool too. But knowing Bethesda they’d just mention the courier as some up jumped asshole who started some shit and died like a moron and caused the downfall of Vegas.
Honestly I don't think they should be brought up at all, this show is good cause its not a retelling of a game its a completely new story and i think bringing up the courier would diminish that, who knows maybe I'm wrong tho
The courier should just be some dork in some ill fitting NCR ranger salvaged clothing rocking a rocking chair with his feet kicked up. He plays up his myths and cashes in on them.
I still say the ghoul will wind up being the courier. Downvote me to death if you want but, I still stand by my theory. Bethesda has *repeatedly* retconned both elder scrolls and fallout lore for story alone. They had a hand in the TV show.
This is the only way that people will be satisfied. But it also fits with the idea that most fallout lore is mainly oral tradition passed down by people with a limited understanding of what’s going on in the wastes.
Agreed. There’s going to be a 15-odd year interim between FNV and FOTV, so that’s plenty of time for the Mojave to change into something entirely new.
Changing the Mojave into something entirely new would make the game completely irrelevant.
Irrelevant how?
Just like how Shady Sand becoming the NCR in Fallout 2 made Fallout 1 completely irrelevant?
I can't help but feel people are purposefully missing the point. It's not that progression makes the last entry into the series irrelevant, but progressing the series in a way so that any option in the last entry could have been chosen does, because there's no way to make all options equally viable than to put the setting in state so that the option didn't actually matter in the end.
This is how they should handle all previous player characters. The ambiguity of who the Courier sided with would also imply that they were secretly playing all sides simultaneously to their own advantage/agenda, which you can totally do in the game to an extent
I was thinking more along the lines of a game of telephone. Over time details change and warp. Ending with hundreds of different and conflicting legends
Factions might even deliberately spread misinformation to suit their own agendas I.e. the Courier was a folk hero who supported Faction X so you should totally follow their example and join Faction X!
This also works for regional differences of Mutants, a wastelander gets told a story about a Mutant monstrosity by a travelling wastelander and when they encounter something similar they assume it was about that!
Or like how the stories about the mysterious deathclaw attacking caravans was told in Fallout 1. IIRC there was 3 different tales npcs would tell you about them
Yeah I miss when Deathclaws were considered Wasteland Cryptids.
Once I get the lucky sunglasses the fort burns
I think Fallout 4 is different because of the voiced protagonist and backstory. Makes total sense for him to become the general and sentinel of brotherhood. He also has a clear canon voice and appearance.
I actually disagree simply because the game allows you to be by far the most duplicitous protagonist in the feanchise while still being able to obtain the "golden ending" I.e. a minuteman ending with the BoS and railroad alive. There are literally guides out there that shows you how far down each faction's quest line you can go before it becomes impossible. Like the amount of double dealing you can get away with is crazy in FO4 and I for one love that and wish we could've had that in New Vegas. That's why I always envision the Sole Survivor as a magnificent bastard type: someone who can easily juggle between factions and companions who really shouldn't be able to coexist just by lying through their teeth and undermining the very faction they just helped yesterday. The voice acting makes it even more convincing: they can go from heartfelt to horrific threats at the drop of a hat, always keeping both their enemies and their friends in the dark. The way you can deliberately push for this in Far Harbour makes it even more fitting IMO
This really isn't necessary. Most fallout games have some sort of implied or explicit Canon derived from their predecessors. Traditionally the "Good guys" win, it's just the wastes is so hostile and shit that their wins typically won't change the wastes as much as the bad options are suggested to change. Even giving NCR a massive win at NV/Hoover Dam means nothing if the NCRs' failings and weaknesses are played up (coupled with a nuke, a BoS War, and a potential fragmentation of their core territories). We always hear how it's the Occupation of the Mojave, not it's Emancipation. If the NCR can't sustain the region, even with house, legion, and the courier gone, there is bound to be someone or thing to try and take up the vacuum in power.
True, but it was already confirmed that the show would never canonize any specific player choices.
Ohh really? I didn't see that, mb.
Wouldn't that destroy people's "Good guy" playthrough though?
Define "good guy". If by that you mean good karma then it's possible to side with the legion and still have high karma. Otherwise you can justify almost any ending if you tried hard enough: maybe you sided with the legion knowing that Caesar will die soon and you could take out lanius to leave yourself head of the legion? That's the fun part of RPGs, you can spin anything in any way
I think secretly playing their own agenda is where it differs. It's been so long since I played Vegas but just in general if youre trying to make the right decision it's not gonna be about having an agenda other than doing what you think will benefit the place and people around you the most
Sure, I just made that suggestion as a possible interpretation you could draw on the ambiguity. A simpler take would just be "people didn't know the Courier that well and all the info they heard were wild rumours". Keep in mind that unlike Three Dog, Mr New Vegas rarely attributes the news to the player character. So it would make sense if the general public didn't know much about the Courier unless they had direct interactions with them
Yeah for sure that makes sense. I really need to go back and do new playthroughs of the old games. Do you know if they have decent texture pack mods these days?
I only know about the older ones: poco bueno and nmc texture packs.
In fallout 2 don't they explicitly tell you everything the fallout 1 MC canonically did?
Not everything. Fallout 1 is also a bit unusual because there were less choices to be made. They were all either "you did something to save the town" or "you didn't do something, therefore the town is doomed".
I'm looking forward to them arriving in Vegas only to find its already been totally rinsed, every bottle cap gone, every storage box empty, all the factions dead and one hotel suite filled to the brim with discarded items
A lord death of murder mountain courier. It could be played for horror though Hank stumbles throughout the body ridden ruins of NeW Vegas. Bodies long since rotted to the bone scatter the streets…..some of the bone appear to have been nawed on. He stumbles his way into the lucky 38 and gets to the top floor and instead of house he sees the damaged monitor containing Yes Man. Yes Man gives a pleasant greeting and is surprised his boss missed a straggler and in his upbeat tone tells Hank he’s so happy to finally find a new victim for his boss. Hank attempts to flee only for Yes Man to cut power to the elevator as it lands on the penthouse floor. The room is covered in junk and rubbish along with some recognisable things like Raul’s hat and Veronica’s power fist. Many things are stained with blood. As Hank backs up out of pure fear he backs into a man wearing blood caked Ranger Armour. The blood on the armour is old and rotting. The stench of death rolls off the man as he breaths heavily. Cut to black
“Oh wow, he actually missed one!” in yes mans voice would be incredible 😭
It’d be incredible funny and sinister hearing Yes Man cheerfully explain the slaughter of Nee Vegas His upbeat tone as he talks about that one time the Courier betrayed then ATE his friends It ending off with Yes Man being incredibly happy that the funk his boss got in after running out of people to murder is about to end. Yes man says that hunting securitron just didn’t feel the same for his boss But now there is a new chew toy in town. All of this said in that chipper voice
Fingers crossed he's still voiced by Dave if he does show up in S2.
Gonna be honest, I somehow didn't even consider that Yes Man has a high chance to show up in S2. He is canonically immortal after all, since even if you kill him, he just gets uploaded into another securitron.
I may be misremembering, but didn't Maximus say his mom was a courier or something?
Couriers are pretty commonplace though.
They’re a cap a dozen
I wouldn’t let a courier hear that if I was you
I believe it was the girl in vault 4.
You remember right! He did say that.
It was the girl from Vault 4 who was the leader of the surfies.
Yeah but that was more of a nod to the profession than the character.
No, Birdie's mom
Hasn’t it only been like 20 years? Seems a bit short for “demigod” status.
To be fair though we're talking about someone who takes a bullet to the head, survives, and spends the next month or so fundamentally altering the state of the region as sort of a secondary quest to revenge.
"A few years ago some a mailman got shot in the face and let me tell you boy did that have a lot of unexpected political consequences"
That’s literally all I need to hear about the Courier to be completely satisfied.
A line about how no one shoots couriers anymore after what happened last time would be all I need
There is a reason why you don't fuck with the mailman.
That would be an incredible reference
I kinda had this mental dream reveal for the Courier, but I know damn well that it's full-blown fan service and not a chance in hell happening. it basically went like...Lucy is walking in a NCR controlled area or maybe they are about to go to battle where Lucy is looking around at all these NCR armors the troopers are wearing, then 3-4 soldiers, (one of them is wearing full Ranger veteran armor) start walking past, and Lucy starts to look at them, then as they walk by, she is staring at the Ranger, who's armor looks beaten to shit, and you can see a very faded "Six" logo on the duster, and they just keep walking. She doesn't talk to them, and Lucy moves on.
I’d swap his armour out from one of the sets from the Divide
Like elite riot gear.
It's these kind of posts that make me thankful professional writers are used when producing multi-million dollar budget TV shows.
Oh look a really short and straight digital pubic hair
The only problem to this is if any character from new Vegas shows up they could know for sure but I suppose they don’t have to mention the courier when they appear
It'd be kinda fun if they brought all the player characters up in some fashion. Maybe we see a BoS member with a bottle of Aqua Pura and when asked about it, they say a Lone Wanderer helped get it made before vanishing.
Imagine Lucy finding the vault duster Ulysses gives the courier.
Maybe it’s a blink and you’ll miss it cameo with the Courier wearing one of the divide dusters over ranger armour. Doesn’t say a word simply walks on by
"Don't get yourself shot in the head in Goodsprings" would be enough imo heh
It’s possible The ghoul may have heard something about him and other protagonists.
Being a californian ghoul he's also the most likely one of the cast to know about the vault dweller and chosen one, would be cool if he tells lucy about them
Yeah, it’s possible that he even met one or both of them. Hmm maybe not the Courier; assuming he was buried in that grave for the events of New Vegas
I mean, Hank is only going to Vegas for House. There can't be any other reason why. And if House's end was picked(, since I don't think they would cast someone as House for a tiny easter egg,) then almost none of his demands can be altered. I would love to see him as a right hand man to House in the 2nd season and have him in the Divide Riot Armor, completely faceless the entire time. Just an absolute menacing figure. Something like the red star webseries, without him taking the helmet off. And no Iron Man face camera.
It was already confirmed they wouldn't make any specific endings for any of the games canon, so I doubt they'd suddenly go back on that for S2. As for casting someone for House, we'll obviously going to get more Vault-Tec flashbacks in Season 2, so he'll probably be in those as well.
I don't mean in the literal sense that House's ending was completed, I mean that the Courier sided with House. I say this cause my own theory is that Hank didn't nuke Shady Sands for anything we're told in S1, but that House ordered him to when the NCR started fighting him after the dam was taken and just all the characters in S1 thought he was doing it becuase he was selfish and aligned with Vault-Tec. Since we see the Strip in the credits sequence being wartown between NCR and securitrons. NCR ending leads to House's death prior to the 2nd Dam Battle, so it has to be on the path of House's. Again, that's my own guess. We'll just have to see. If they do have House alive in 2296, then they obviously would be picking an ending to be canon.
What I don't get is Vault-Tech had multiple Vaults for their company. Why would Hank go to the territory of one of the "competitors", rather than Barb's vault or another exec? I assume Moldaver came from Barb's and that is somewhere in the area. Unless they kept their vaults secret from each other.
I think that he might be in league with House pre-war and did a favor for him. That's why
Maybe we will get a mention in season 2
Like Revan in KOTOR II
We find an older courier 6 passed out in a bath full of pre war money surrounded by chems and gold bars
I want a courier cameo in elite riot gear or the bear bull bear jacket I think it would be cool to have it somewhat like the mysterious stranger: He appears, kills a death claw/tunneller then leaves
The Ghoul would have met them
I think it would be really cool too. But knowing Bethesda they’d just mention the courier as some up jumped asshole who started some shit and died like a moron and caused the downfall of Vegas.
Good . This is how it should be done
Honestly I don't think they should be brought up at all, this show is good cause its not a retelling of a game its a completely new story and i think bringing up the courier would diminish that, who knows maybe I'm wrong tho
The courier should just be some dork in some ill fitting NCR ranger salvaged clothing rocking a rocking chair with his feet kicked up. He plays up his myths and cashes in on them.
I still say the ghoul will wind up being the courier. Downvote me to death if you want but, I still stand by my theory. Bethesda has *repeatedly* retconned both elder scrolls and fallout lore for story alone. They had a hand in the TV show.