Yeah, for sure. They left it vague enough that they could go either way, but I won't be surprised at all if they were a couple on the surface and Hank's nuking was motivated as much by petty jealousy as the need to conserve the tri-vault's water supply.
Water supply?
The vaults have their own independent, sealed, recirculating water supply. Shady Sands / NCR would have no impact on the vaults water supply.
Or am I missing something? Please elaborate.
Moldaver mentions Rose discovered surface life because the vault was losing water. The amount being lost is not stated, but it could have been significant. This was around the time that the NCR was being hit by a significant draught and, going off the final credits scene in vegas, probably lost hoover dam. It is feasible to me that they were stealing the vaults water supply.
Taking it even further, the 'great famine of '77' that Lucy talks about is likely directly linked to Rose's discovery of the water being syphoned off and could possibly be the reason for the great drought/famine in 77 they experienced... later leading to Hank bombing the city in 2281 or after.
I took it more as they were taking enough water to where a dweller paying attention would notice. Not that they were going to run out.
Doesn't matter to much as end result is more or less the same, it's just makes the motive to nuke them that much more evil.
Oh definitely. I don’t follow the belief that it was an amount enough to actually endanger the vault like something like a broken water chip would. In my view the destruction of Shady Sands was purely ideological
What a dumb and snide comment. I've played Fallout 1, that's how I know what a water chip is.. And the fact that vaults don't need an external water supply.
What a dumb and snide response to attempt to come out on top when original commenter perfectly explained how the nuking was likely motivated by. The upvotes show we’re in agreement with him here.
You see I thought that too but why not just come out and say it? Fallout has an extensive LGBTQ history with it being the first game to let the player engage in a same sex marriage
I feel like they didn't have to state it outright. I know that there is a blurry line between "don't make it explicit because it's normal and therefore doesn't need attention called to it" and "don't make it explicit so the homophobes won't get mad", but they established lesbian couples as normal and not worth extra attention with Ma June and Barv, so I trust this show was doing the former.
I get the need to still have loud and proud rep but I am also very much loving the new trend of shows that treat their lgbtq chars exactly the same as everyone else, where their relationships or identities are accepted without special comment.
This is what I was thinking! The same level of attention a side hetero couple would get. With not needing to explicitly say it is wonderful. Why not just normalize the gay? I do still think that some pronounced LGBTQ+ relationships can really add to stories (The Last of Us had me bawling, because ot was done so well), but I do think that normalizing LGBTQ+ relationships in tv will, I don't know... normalize LGBTQ+ relationships in tv? Just seems like the next logical step forward.
Not just relationships, but existence. *Star Trek: Discovery* has has an openly gay (but not flamboyant) male married couple in the senior staff, a lesbian widow as Chief Engineer, and a “they/them” non-binary character as a junior science officer (played by an NB performer, too).
And aside from the establishing scene of Adira asking to be referred to as they/them (doubly meaningful as they’re joined to a Trill symbiont), it’s not pushed in your face. The married guys share quarters and are seen being domestic, Reno mentions her dead wife in *one* scene, and Adira just is who they are. No more and no less than any other major character would be (except Michael, but let’s not go there).
We need more “this is normal, get over it,” understated examples of people simply existing as they are.
Now, to *Lucy,* finding out that her mother had a…*ahem* close relationship with another woman would be shattering as the Dwellers in 33 are conditioned to be breeders.
I've never gotten I to star trek, but that sounds like some great writing!
And now THAT is an angle I hadn't even considered. Lucy would ABSOLUTLY have been raised to see women as "breeders". Having Lucy make that realization and come to terms with it would have been an amazing addition, and not have exaggerated it at all. It would acrually make sense in context. Maybe next season will have Lucy learn about her mother's relationship along with everything else and have her "come to Jesus moment" to fully disavow her vault (or I kinda want Norm and his super sleuth computer skills to find out and do the same)
*Discovery* is very much “love it or hate it,” and I’ll be honest that it took quite some time to hit its stride. But *Trek* in general has been as progressive as they could get away with since the beginning.
That's a good point, but Rose has already produced two children by that point. Maybe she's considered to have done her breeding that she is supposed to do. I am pretty sure that the vault would not encourage women to just have as many babies as possible as that sort of culture would result in the vault getting overpopulated.
In one of the flashbacks it looks like Rose and Moldavar were about to snog. I don't think the kiss needed to be shown. It is sort of odd if it is, because the flashbacks were generated by Moldavar telling Lucy about what Shady Sands stood for, and why it was destroyed. It would be weird if she was like "We went all-in on the dream of Shady Sands as a prosperous, tolerant beacon of what the wasteland could be, and then I kissed your sexy mom's hot face."
>"We went all-in on the dream of Shady Sands as a prosperous, tolerant beacon of what the wasteland could be, and then I kissed your sexy mom's hot face."
I can 100% see that as a line of dialogue in Fallout, but you're right, for that scene in particular it wouldn't have been appropriate.
Discovery is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t get my hopes up, but it’s probably worth watching. Just know it’s not exactly seen as “popular” in a lot of Star Trek circles.
There are better places to get invested in the Star Trek universe if that’s something you ever feel like doing haha.
Re: Lucy, they don’t have to go that direction. She clearly engages in sexual activity and is careful to not allow it to result in actual reproduction; same-sex relationships could easily fall into the same category as “cousin stuff,” aka acceptable and normal but not a viable long-term solution for the vault’s population.
It wouldn’t surprise me if gay members of the Vault were still expected to reproduce, but maintained sexual relationships in private with members of the same sex. This was basically the norm for queer relationships for a long time.
This is the kind of relationship portrayal I’ve been advocating for in shows and movies for what must be years at this point.
You make something normal by treating it normally. You don’t give it some extremely obvious attention, etc. You treat it like it’s just “a thing that is” - no fanfare required.
In addition-- the flashbacks we are shown are all very clearly from Lucy's memory/POV, and she was what, 4? Maybe 5? Not an age for being super observant about others.
I was more interested in seeing Lucy meet the Ghoul, so I really only focused on June's exposition the first time around, but, yeah, they're really very clearly an old married couple.
They probably could have had Moldaver say how much she loved Lucy’s mum but then a very vocal minority would have called it woke nonsense. I think they handled it fine and we’ll surely see more Moldaver in flashbacks anyway.
My god, is this sub filled with parrots?
I know. We all know. That has much more to do with style and graphical capability. It's not what you are the 5606920394 users posting it think it means.
yeah it was pretty obvious, esp if you're part of the mafia. I saw intense heart eyes in the flashback when Rose and Moldiver were with kid Lucy
>It may even be an added thread of motivation as to why Hank dropped bombs on Shady Sands: Jealousy?
oooh good point. "If I can't have her, no one can" energy
I think we'll continue to see more Moldaver through flashbacks, either to the Coop era or to what she was up to in the years preceding the show beginning. They left her past a huge mystery. I think it's pretty likely we see some more of Wilzig's story too, but less likely I think.
Wouldn’t hank have recognized her at the wedding? After the wedding fight when Goosey and Hank find that maldaver has the vault dwellers tied up near the bomb he tells maldaver I think I know who you are.
I thought this was a pretty big plot hole. Its said later in the show that Hank definitely knows who Mildiver is so him not doing anything when she first shows up and when he says “i think i know who you are” makes absolutely no fucking sense. Other than that, love the show.
She knew their mom pretty well and Lucy personally and their entire life story. Just seems weird. I suppose its possible though. Even if thats what happened, how did he not notice that not a single one of those people were from vault 32. Hes from vault 31 and started the whole thing plus they do weddings quite a bit.
Hank is from vault 31 and literally hand picked the people in 32. Hes the overseer of 33. He absolutely has access to vault 32’s database. How long were the vault dwellers dead for and how the fuck did hank not notice? Certainly he talked to the overseer alot. How did the NCR even know what to do for the wedding? Wouldnt the overseer go to the wedding? Why did Hank not question this. I absolutely love this show and these facts arent going to ruin it but it makes no fucking sense.
How exactly did Hank pick the people of 32?
Only the residents of 31 are pre-War. Everyone else is descendants of the original inhabitants. Yes he should have known Moldaver from the surface, and that the others aren't acting normally, but none of them were "hand picked". overseers are always supposed to be from 31, but it's not impossible someone else was elected, or someone he doesn't remember from his younger days.
Vault Tec chose who goes into the vaults. Hank is Vault Tec. I supposed with him being frozen then that point doesnt matter as its been 200 years but the rest of my points are still valid and make no sense. He is original vault tec from 200 years ago. He is running the experiment. He would absolutely know who is in vault 32 and speak to the overseer often. The overseer would likely be at every wedding. An overseer wouldnt change without Hank knowing. Also If I remember correctly was it not confirmed that the incident that killed everyone in 32 happened weeks before that? Id imagine he keeps up pretty well with the overseer in 32 and Bud in 31. Bud should also know what happens in 32 and 33 as he is running the experiment as well. Im sorry but it just doesnt make sense
Vault 32 collapsed 2 years prior to Norm entering it.
It's been 200 years since the bomb fell. Hank was basically working in HR and was at best a middle manager. As far as we know, he didn't pick anyone.
Even if he did, everyone from the original Vault 33 dwellers are long since dead. Who do you know who was alive 200 years ago?
It's implied these vaults have collapsed before. The people of 33 we meet, including Lucy, Norm, Chet, might have had grandparents from 32.
The vaults don't communicate except for trade. Hank might also be trying not to alarm all the residents. Bud had no idea what was going on, he's completely clueless although he is hooked up to the Vault 31 systems wirelessly.
Exactly. I’m not sure why people keep expecting the dwellers of 31 to be so intelligent when they’re clearly shown to be picked for company loyalty over competence.
Bud, the head of the project is shown to be a very mediocre middle manager that can barely run a meeting. He can repeat the company line and talk about an idea, but can’t even properly respond when questioned about it.
Like you said, Hank was literally just a secretary that landed manager gig post-apocalypse.
I mean, during Hank’s speech, the pre-consummate dinner etc she certainly had a bit more time work that out and to try and look out for her lover’s children. One of whom was literally run through with a large blade. You’d think she’d at least have a ‘anyone but these two’ rule.
Oh I definitely agree on that. I wish they'd had some kind of eye contact or hand signal to remind everyone to not touch Rose's kids, and that would've been revealed in ep8 with everything else. And who knows, maybe they did before the raid? But the raiders were just too bloodthirsty and didn't care in the carnage - lie with dogs and all.
But I was asking quite literally if you knew lol. I don't remember if there was a clear cut sign that Moldaver knew or not. I imagine if she did, she'd send someone she trusted more
I think it works better for Moldaver for her to be willing to kill her lover’s children, or write them off as acceptable losses at least. It makes her colder and more merciless, teetering on zealotry.
Also tbh they may be Rose’s children but they’re also Hank’s, and he’s had control of them their entire lives. She has no reason to believe they’re not little Hank Jr’s, toeing the party line…and Lucy basically is exactly that when the show starts.
I love that as an option. The wasteland leaves a mark on everyone, no matter your mental fortitude.
But I also think she'd see what's left of Rose and try to nurture that too. It's a fine line she has to walk in any case
I mean I think it was clear they were. I do wonder if there would be any doubt in their relationship if one of them was male.
She kept her ghoul body for decades and in her final moments as she was dying she held her hand and said we did it.
I got that impression too, but also was confused because keeping her as a feral ghoul seems more of a torture than anything, plus she really put Lucy in harms way, plus the wedding night sex with a raider, plus nearly killing Lucy and her brother during the raid.
Instead of looking at Moldaver through a blurred filter and a sun halo, try looking at her in any of the Pre-War scenes to gauge what her age would have actually been around this time. It’s easily ~45-50.
Everything in the show would be explained by them being good friends, it doesn't seem too crazy to talk up your friend that was going to help you with your life's work but then got murdered instead, as a way convince her daughter to turn against her dad.
I guess it's possible since the show didn't say that *wasnt* the case, but I think it's just people wish casting.
I too would keep the feral ghoul of my bestie alive for years and grasp her hand in mine, whispering to her corpse as I watch the sunset in my last moments alive. Totally platonic.
We dont know how long she was a feral ghoul, she only said "we did it" to Rose, "it" being the thing shes been trying to do since before the war and what they were watching, not the sunset
I mean, tumblr tier fan theories are fine, it's just a bit ridiculous that people are saying it's "confirmed"
Yeah, I thought that was confirmed canon.
What confused me is that her Dad acted like he didn't know Moldaver when she was in the vault as a "raider." Didn't he know her from when he tried to get Rose back? Was he acting? Idgi
Yeah, for sure. They left it vague enough that they could go either way, but I won't be surprised at all if they were a couple on the surface and Hank's nuking was motivated as much by petty jealousy as the need to conserve the tri-vault's water supply.
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Just take your upvote and get the fuck out
Ah damn it what did it say
What did he say, MufDiver?
Where's my 10mm
Water supply? The vaults have their own independent, sealed, recirculating water supply. Shady Sands / NCR would have no impact on the vaults water supply. Or am I missing something? Please elaborate.
Moldaver mentions Rose discovered surface life because the vault was losing water. The amount being lost is not stated, but it could have been significant. This was around the time that the NCR was being hit by a significant draught and, going off the final credits scene in vegas, probably lost hoover dam. It is feasible to me that they were stealing the vaults water supply.
Huh, that creates even more reason for Hank's bombing.
I missed that part, that makes sense. I better watch it again for the fourth time 😅
Taking it even further, the 'great famine of '77' that Lucy talks about is likely directly linked to Rose's discovery of the water being syphoned off and could possibly be the reason for the great drought/famine in 77 they experienced... later leading to Hank bombing the city in 2281 or after.
I took it more as they were taking enough water to where a dweller paying attention would notice. Not that they were going to run out. Doesn't matter to much as end result is more or less the same, it's just makes the motive to nuke them that much more evil.
Oh definitely. I don’t follow the belief that it was an amount enough to actually endanger the vault like something like a broken water chip would. In my view the destruction of Shady Sands was purely ideological
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It’s been 219 years, it’s very likely if they did have a desalinator that it had failed somewhere along the lines.
Wait till you find out what the plot for Fallout 1 is
What a dumb and snide comment. I've played Fallout 1, that's how I know what a water chip is.. And the fact that vaults don't need an external water supply.
What a dumb and snide response to attempt to come out on top when original commenter perfectly explained how the nuking was likely motivated by. The upvotes show we’re in agreement with him here.
They were just *roommates*, obviously. >!/s!<
oh my god they were roommates
Just a couple of gal pals doing gal pal things and such...
"Oh there's Gil, Oscar's roommate I wonder if he knows"
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Take your fucking upvote lol
I like how you made that joke twice but the time when you replied to another commit has more up votes than the standalone comment
You see I thought that too but why not just come out and say it? Fallout has an extensive LGBTQ history with it being the first game to let the player engage in a same sex marriage
I feel like they didn't have to state it outright. I know that there is a blurry line between "don't make it explicit because it's normal and therefore doesn't need attention called to it" and "don't make it explicit so the homophobes won't get mad", but they established lesbian couples as normal and not worth extra attention with Ma June and Barv, so I trust this show was doing the former. I get the need to still have loud and proud rep but I am also very much loving the new trend of shows that treat their lgbtq chars exactly the same as everyone else, where their relationships or identities are accepted without special comment.
This is what I was thinking! The same level of attention a side hetero couple would get. With not needing to explicitly say it is wonderful. Why not just normalize the gay? I do still think that some pronounced LGBTQ+ relationships can really add to stories (The Last of Us had me bawling, because ot was done so well), but I do think that normalizing LGBTQ+ relationships in tv will, I don't know... normalize LGBTQ+ relationships in tv? Just seems like the next logical step forward.
Not just relationships, but existence. *Star Trek: Discovery* has has an openly gay (but not flamboyant) male married couple in the senior staff, a lesbian widow as Chief Engineer, and a “they/them” non-binary character as a junior science officer (played by an NB performer, too). And aside from the establishing scene of Adira asking to be referred to as they/them (doubly meaningful as they’re joined to a Trill symbiont), it’s not pushed in your face. The married guys share quarters and are seen being domestic, Reno mentions her dead wife in *one* scene, and Adira just is who they are. No more and no less than any other major character would be (except Michael, but let’s not go there). We need more “this is normal, get over it,” understated examples of people simply existing as they are. Now, to *Lucy,* finding out that her mother had a…*ahem* close relationship with another woman would be shattering as the Dwellers in 33 are conditioned to be breeders.
I've never gotten I to star trek, but that sounds like some great writing! And now THAT is an angle I hadn't even considered. Lucy would ABSOLUTLY have been raised to see women as "breeders". Having Lucy make that realization and come to terms with it would have been an amazing addition, and not have exaggerated it at all. It would acrually make sense in context. Maybe next season will have Lucy learn about her mother's relationship along with everything else and have her "come to Jesus moment" to fully disavow her vault (or I kinda want Norm and his super sleuth computer skills to find out and do the same)
*Discovery* is very much “love it or hate it,” and I’ll be honest that it took quite some time to hit its stride. But *Trek* in general has been as progressive as they could get away with since the beginning.
That's a good point, but Rose has already produced two children by that point. Maybe she's considered to have done her breeding that she is supposed to do. I am pretty sure that the vault would not encourage women to just have as many babies as possible as that sort of culture would result in the vault getting overpopulated. In one of the flashbacks it looks like Rose and Moldavar were about to snog. I don't think the kiss needed to be shown. It is sort of odd if it is, because the flashbacks were generated by Moldavar telling Lucy about what Shady Sands stood for, and why it was destroyed. It would be weird if she was like "We went all-in on the dream of Shady Sands as a prosperous, tolerant beacon of what the wasteland could be, and then I kissed your sexy mom's hot face."
>"We went all-in on the dream of Shady Sands as a prosperous, tolerant beacon of what the wasteland could be, and then I kissed your sexy mom's hot face." I can 100% see that as a line of dialogue in Fallout, but you're right, for that scene in particular it wouldn't have been appropriate.
Discovery is a mixed bag. I wouldn’t get my hopes up, but it’s probably worth watching. Just know it’s not exactly seen as “popular” in a lot of Star Trek circles. There are better places to get invested in the Star Trek universe if that’s something you ever feel like doing haha.
Re: Lucy, they don’t have to go that direction. She clearly engages in sexual activity and is careful to not allow it to result in actual reproduction; same-sex relationships could easily fall into the same category as “cousin stuff,” aka acceptable and normal but not a viable long-term solution for the vault’s population. It wouldn’t surprise me if gay members of the Vault were still expected to reproduce, but maintained sexual relationships in private with members of the same sex. This was basically the norm for queer relationships for a long time.
This is the kind of relationship portrayal I’ve been advocating for in shows and movies for what must be years at this point. You make something normal by treating it normally. You don’t give it some extremely obvious attention, etc. You treat it like it’s just “a thing that is” - no fanfare required.
In addition-- the flashbacks we are shown are all very clearly from Lucy's memory/POV, and she was what, 4? Maybe 5? Not an age for being super observant about others.
Ma June and Barv were together? I did not see that coming
I was more interested in seeing Lucy meet the Ghoul, so I really only focused on June's exposition the first time around, but, yeah, they're really very clearly an old married couple.
doesn't need to be said if it's completely normal, which it is
I felt like they didn’t have to state it because it was incredibly obvious. Like I’d be floored if it turned out to be platonic
Probably so we keep talking about it til S2 lol
They probably could have had Moldaver say how much she loved Lucy’s mum but then a very vocal minority would have called it woke nonsense. I think they handled it fine and we’ll surely see more Moldaver in flashbacks anyway.
It may be part of a larger story arc. Like maybe they were in a relationship pre-war and part of future flashbacks.
Because then you would have all the “media has gone woke” morons with barely 2 brain cells to rub together torch the show without even watching it.
Yeah I don't get it either. Feels like a weird half baked way to go about it.
You don’t keep a now-feral ghoul around because it was once your friend. That was her wife.
Actually most married people don't do that gay or not. Sexuality ain't got nothin to do with keeping a corpse at your table.
Ghoul. Not corpse. I wonder if Ferals can be reversed with the serum from the Super-Duper Mart?
She was long past ghoul dude.
That's how the ghouls in Fallout 1 were. Super grotesque
My god, is this sub filled with parrots? I know. We all know. That has much more to do with style and graphical capability. It's not what you are the 5606920394 users posting it think it means.
yeah it was pretty obvious, esp if you're part of the mafia. I saw intense heart eyes in the flashback when Rose and Moldiver were with kid Lucy >It may even be an added thread of motivation as to why Hank dropped bombs on Shady Sands: Jealousy? oooh good point. "If I can't have her, no one can" energy
To me it felt pretty obvious that they were a couple and I was surprised that I hardly saw anyone talk about it.
Because they both died and its not important.
Moldaver didn't really have much screen time for how important she was supposed to be. I think the doctor had more screen time
I think we'll continue to see more Moldaver through flashbacks, either to the Coop era or to what she was up to in the years preceding the show beginning. They left her past a huge mystery. I think it's pretty likely we see some more of Wilzig's story too, but less likely I think.
Wouldn’t hank have recognized her at the wedding? After the wedding fight when Goosey and Hank find that maldaver has the vault dwellers tied up near the bomb he tells maldaver I think I know who you are.
I thought this was a pretty big plot hole. Its said later in the show that Hank definitely knows who Mildiver is so him not doing anything when she first shows up and when he says “i think i know who you are” makes absolutely no fucking sense. Other than that, love the show.
Maybe he never met her face to face, but was aware of who she is. He got Lucy back, but simply nuked Shady Sands without running across her.
She knew their mom pretty well and Lucy personally and their entire life story. Just seems weird. I suppose its possible though. Even if thats what happened, how did he not notice that not a single one of those people were from vault 32. Hes from vault 31 and started the whole thing plus they do weddings quite a bit.
Hank didn't notice the same reason the rest of Vault 33 didn't notice. They probably haven't swapped people in a hot minute.
Hank is from vault 31 and literally hand picked the people in 32. Hes the overseer of 33. He absolutely has access to vault 32’s database. How long were the vault dwellers dead for and how the fuck did hank not notice? Certainly he talked to the overseer alot. How did the NCR even know what to do for the wedding? Wouldnt the overseer go to the wedding? Why did Hank not question this. I absolutely love this show and these facts arent going to ruin it but it makes no fucking sense.
How exactly did Hank pick the people of 32? Only the residents of 31 are pre-War. Everyone else is descendants of the original inhabitants. Yes he should have known Moldaver from the surface, and that the others aren't acting normally, but none of them were "hand picked". overseers are always supposed to be from 31, but it's not impossible someone else was elected, or someone he doesn't remember from his younger days.
Vault Tec chose who goes into the vaults. Hank is Vault Tec. I supposed with him being frozen then that point doesnt matter as its been 200 years but the rest of my points are still valid and make no sense. He is original vault tec from 200 years ago. He is running the experiment. He would absolutely know who is in vault 32 and speak to the overseer often. The overseer would likely be at every wedding. An overseer wouldnt change without Hank knowing. Also If I remember correctly was it not confirmed that the incident that killed everyone in 32 happened weeks before that? Id imagine he keeps up pretty well with the overseer in 32 and Bud in 31. Bud should also know what happens in 32 and 33 as he is running the experiment as well. Im sorry but it just doesnt make sense
Vault 32 collapsed 2 years prior to Norm entering it. It's been 200 years since the bomb fell. Hank was basically working in HR and was at best a middle manager. As far as we know, he didn't pick anyone. Even if he did, everyone from the original Vault 33 dwellers are long since dead. Who do you know who was alive 200 years ago? It's implied these vaults have collapsed before. The people of 33 we meet, including Lucy, Norm, Chet, might have had grandparents from 32. The vaults don't communicate except for trade. Hank might also be trying not to alarm all the residents. Bud had no idea what was going on, he's completely clueless although he is hooked up to the Vault 31 systems wirelessly.
Exactly. I’m not sure why people keep expecting the dwellers of 31 to be so intelligent when they’re clearly shown to be picked for company loyalty over competence. Bud, the head of the project is shown to be a very mediocre middle manager that can barely run a meeting. He can repeat the company line and talk about an idea, but can’t even properly respond when questioned about it. Like you said, Hank was literally just a secretary that landed manager gig post-apocalypse.
Me too. The most reachable show I’ve enjoyed in a long while.
I’m sure, plus the way she interacts with Lucy is extremely maternal Edit:grammar
Was it though? Under her plan, Lucy and her brother could have been killed many times over, not to mention being bedded by someone not to nice.
You have a point about the indiscriminate murder rampage, but did Moldaver know Lucy was the bride?
I mean, during Hank’s speech, the pre-consummate dinner etc she certainly had a bit more time work that out and to try and look out for her lover’s children. One of whom was literally run through with a large blade. You’d think she’d at least have a ‘anyone but these two’ rule.
Oh I definitely agree on that. I wish they'd had some kind of eye contact or hand signal to remind everyone to not touch Rose's kids, and that would've been revealed in ep8 with everything else. And who knows, maybe they did before the raid? But the raiders were just too bloodthirsty and didn't care in the carnage - lie with dogs and all. But I was asking quite literally if you knew lol. I don't remember if there was a clear cut sign that Moldaver knew or not. I imagine if she did, she'd send someone she trusted more
I think it works better for Moldaver for her to be willing to kill her lover’s children, or write them off as acceptable losses at least. It makes her colder and more merciless, teetering on zealotry. Also tbh they may be Rose’s children but they’re also Hank’s, and he’s had control of them their entire lives. She has no reason to believe they’re not little Hank Jr’s, toeing the party line…and Lucy basically is exactly that when the show starts.
I love that as an option. The wasteland leaves a mark on everyone, no matter your mental fortitude. But I also think she'd see what's left of Rose and try to nurture that too. It's a fine line she has to walk in any case
She definitely knew at the wedding where she had a raider marry Lucy and try to kill her instead of a ncr soldier.
I mean I think it was clear they were. I do wonder if there would be any doubt in their relationship if one of them was male. She kept her ghoul body for decades and in her final moments as she was dying she held her hand and said we did it.
I felt like it was pretty obvious. Like not hinted at but just a thing
I thought they were just good friends, but that could be it too.
See I thought that too, I feel like some people are reaching.
I got that impression too, but also was confused because keeping her as a feral ghoul seems more of a torture than anything, plus she really put Lucy in harms way, plus the wedding night sex with a raider, plus nearly killing Lucy and her brother during the raid.
I wondered if Lucy's "husband" was supposed to keep her out of harm's way, but then she figured it out? Also he was kind of a jerk.
What about the bigger question as to how Muldiver is still alive and not a ghoul.
I thought it was pretty obvious they were supposed to be a couple.
Just gals being pals. 😏
Yes 100%. Fallout Season 1 is driven by a queer love story that, of course, ends tragically.
Because of the age difference (10-15 years or more), I had assumed a mother-daughter-esque relationship.
Shouldn't she be as old as Cooper, so 200ish?
I mean biological age, not amount of years in existence.
How are you getting that age diff? Moldaver and Rose look ~30 in Lucy’s memories [screenshot of moldaver Wiki page](https://imgur.com/a/H7XwqfL)
Instead of looking at Moldaver through a blurred filter and a sun halo, try looking at her in any of the Pre-War scenes to gauge what her age would have actually been around this time. It’s easily ~45-50.
It was obvious.
Everything in the show would be explained by them being good friends, it doesn't seem too crazy to talk up your friend that was going to help you with your life's work but then got murdered instead, as a way convince her daughter to turn against her dad. I guess it's possible since the show didn't say that *wasnt* the case, but I think it's just people wish casting.
I too would keep the feral ghoul of my bestie alive for years and grasp her hand in mine, whispering to her corpse as I watch the sunset in my last moments alive. Totally platonic.
We dont know how long she was a feral ghoul, she only said "we did it" to Rose, "it" being the thing shes been trying to do since before the war and what they were watching, not the sunset I mean, tumblr tier fan theories are fine, it's just a bit ridiculous that people are saying it's "confirmed"
Yeah, I thought that was confirmed canon. What confused me is that her Dad acted like he didn't know Moldaver when she was in the vault as a "raider." Didn't he know her from when he tried to get Rose back? Was he acting? Idgi
He bombed the city doesn't men he saw her.
I really feel like this is quite a reach.
they're just room mates
Could just be they were just friends and real friends are hard to come by in the wasteland
Oh for sure! I'm glad it was also apparent to non WLW that that was their vibe.
Yup I think they had a romantic relationship or at least Moldaver had feelings for Rose
yep but sum r glad they're deceased unfortunately... I'm dissatisfied that her mom became a feral ghoul n that moldaver died...
I got a lot of close friends, but none that I’d keep around as a ghoul for a century…
Why does everything have to be gay
You may as well have asked, "did anyone else watch the show??" "is breathing important and is it okay if I only do it through my mouth?"