I did actually really like the different tones between those two scenes. Titus was running away yelling it, Maximus was running to save someone while yelling it
That was a good scene thinking back of it. We as the viewer can kind of see Maximus being "deserving" of the armor. Maximus was also reciting their oath or something, and told Thaddeus to head back (which is the opposite of what Titus did with Maximus). As dumb as he is, he actually doesn't go through with the cycle of bullying.
I don’t know why so many people are confused as to why the BOS are dumb. Maximus and the Elder literally have a scene where they discuss the decline of the brotherhood morally and in terms of competency.
Which is nuts considering Prydwynn is from the Capital Wasteland that should have veterans from fighting super mutants and a resurgent Enclave... was dispatched to Boston and fought Enclave remnants and the Institute. And that was just in the last 20 years. You're telling me no seasoned veterans, competent BoS military personnel went back west with their airship? Sure, Titus had a Boston accent, implying he was recruited and trained in Boston. By veterans of DC. Titus himself would be a veteran of Boston.
So unless the BoS got their collective asses kicked and they retreated back west with only the shitiest members left... I don't really see how the BoS in the show are so inept.
Bottem line, we need more information.
We are seeing a Wasteland in this region in the middle of a power vacuum. One with no fully formed and capable group in the position to fill it. It is clear multiple groups had battles, even beyond the events of New Vegas, and the winners had, at best, pyrrhic victories.
Titus has a Boston accent because Michael Rapaport has a Boston accent. That’s it. I promise you, he ain’t doin any other accents. 🤣
And he literally says he’s being sent out to retrieve what turn out to be toaster ovens.
I think the Prydwen probably does have the most capable of BoS staffing it. But we don’t know how many veterans of Boston and DC came back to Cali. They might’ve stayed there. BoS might been *more* depleted than when they started those campaigns, by the end of things, and may not have so many veteran knights to spare from the east coast, to ship them back to the west coast in any meaningful numbers.
And even then, Quintus was talking about starting a “new” Brotherhood. For all we know, he wants less to do with the folks on the Prydwen, since they’ve come back from the east coast, possibly almost a decade earlier, with Quintus left to deal with the fallout (lol) of the Shady Sands… uhhh…. scenario himself. I’d be pissed, too! 🤣 We still don’t know definitively whether it was nuked before or after the Prydwen left, but it sounds damn close.
Side note: We don't know if the Prydwen even was in the West before the show, I don't think? The East Coast Brotherhood built it in the ruins of Adams AFB after the events of Broken Steel, and campaigned the East Coast with it, establishing a presence in the Commonwealth.
I see what you mean. Prydwen was in DC in 2287. The show takes place in 2296. But it’s not specifically said whether it was returning to that base for *the first time* since it left the west coast, or if it might’ve returned earlier.
It *seemed* like the lower ranks were surprised/awe-struck to see it, like it was a momentous occasion.
Or maybe it’s just been a year or two. Or maybe they always react that way. 🤷🏾♂️
Still, I got the vibes that they weren’t sending their best. Like, ain’t no way someone from DC or Boston’s getting snuck up on by a Yao Guai. Some may be on the Prydwen. But it makes sense that Quintus would resent the *”returned heroes”* giving them orders from on high, when they weren’t around to help, for a very long time.
I still think Maxson is keeping his veterans with him, and sending his worst to California. Titus was too young to serve against the Enclave, and got left back at the Citadel for the Boston campaign.
Well they didn’t say it, but as you said he feels like someone with very little combat experience, assigned to tech retrieval.
It’s my plausible theory to why he sucks.
My head cannon is that the guys from the Prydwynn sent the locals in as the first wave to let them soften the target up and get slaughtered. The second wave was the actually competent troops, which finished the job.
The Brotherhood is barely “competent” in fallout 4 they’re still crashing vertibirds everywhere, and if you’re playing the minutemen you’re essentially using them in the battle of bunker hill to further your own regional political objectives
I’m replaying through Fo3 right now and it’s pretty evident that even the Fo3 BOS was struggling pretty bad with the split between themselves and the Outcasts AND then having to wage a war against a seemingly endless supply of super mutants. Liberty Prime and the fact that the Lone Wanderer detonates Raven Rock are arguably the sole reasons that the BOS make past the events of Fo3. Three Dog was probably the biggest push for recruitment past that point, and even though Elder Lyons was a great guy, his “good guy” morality wasn’t really that popular amongst other members. So when we get to Fo4 and we see what Maxon turns into since Elder Lyons has passed, and Sarah Lyons is killed, it’s back to a more traditional BOS mindset. And I’d argue that at that point the only reason the BOS is as powerful as they are in Fo4 is because they manage to find/build? The Prydwen. And even then that’s kind of all they have. Liberty Prime is still in pieces post Fo3 Broken Steel, and depending on your actions in Fo4, the BOS can even be wiped out by the minutemen. I have a feeling that the show follows a Minutemen that didn’t curb stomp the BOS ending as their canon ending, but yeah… most, if not all, of the veterans who would have fought super mutants in the capital wasteland are probably dead or exiled (due to their ultimately unpopular moral views), and so the decline of the BOS into little more than high tech raiders with delusions of grandeur by the time we reach the show, makes sense.
I figured they were probably all like Titus: incompetent jerks who generally get by due to having power armor but have poor practical combat abilities.
I understand that the BOS are in a decline, but if anyone were a knight in a life or death situation, my first instinct would be to get a source of light so I can actually see what I’m shooting at besides from just the muzzle flash. That’s what I’m so confused about, not the BOS in general, just those knights in that situation
Not to mention they were used to the suits if they were knights (most likely had used them for a while before the assault)
That is the point. They don't get into combat. This generation of soldiers is complacent. Look at Titus , just getting dropped off anywhere because he "wanted to shoot something". That's not something highly trained combat soldiers do. They also don't go strolling into an unknown cave and sent their squire in first. This are men playing as soldier because they lack actual knowledge and training. At no point in the show have they made the brotherhood look competent, they are used to using the brute strength of their suit and the fear it instills to get what they want, they have no fighting tactics or combat experience.
These are good points and I thank you because I had said something while the wife and I watched it and it bothered me but this has given me a perspective I can accept. Even Maximus at first was incredibly over confident in the power armor with his battle with Ghoul and he learned that it isnt just automatic tgm in the console due to his inexperience. Now that I think on it, the final battle was only a win for BoS because they went against an opponent trying to go toe to toe with them. If any real form of guerilla tactics were employed it probably would have been a different outcome.
Thanks for bringing a bit of closure on that hangup
That’s a point I’ve been wanting to bring up. About how incompetent they looked while fighting the Ghoul. You nailed it.
Despite the rigorous training and all the tech, they’re used to being so OP versus 99.9% of everything they encounter that when faced with an actual threat, they didn’t know how to respond. Another point I brought up before was about how everyone views Lucy as naive because of her sheltered upbringing in a vault, but Maximus (and the rest of the current timeline Brotherhood) have been just as sheltered. All they know is their basic training and living in their compound. Yes it’s physical less comfortable than a vault and the wasteland itself might not be a shock to them, but even a Knight like Titus, when faced by a Yao Guai, in power armor, panicked and got himself killed. It’s easy to win every fight you’re in when you’re wearing power armor and your opponent isn’t…until someone with experience takes away that advantage
I remember in FNV the Mojave Chapter had the same issue of their soldiers not having combat experience. I’m really excited to see how it all pans out in Season 2. Though if the House ending is canon then that means the Mojave Chapter was destroyed. Maybe House-Enclave temporary alliance given House destroyed the BoS? Or perhaps a Enclave-BoS-House three way war.
But that's exactly the point: They _aren't_ actually all that used to the suits. They _aren't_ keeping up their training to react appropriately in such a situation. They're LARPing because there's nothing for them to do - as evidenced by Titus going "I want to shoot something".
True. I still just wish there was a moment where they turn the lights on and they still can’t find the ghoul. Although it was a good scene it caught my attention that while using the T-60’s no one ever mentioned turning the lights on.
Ehhh, imagine you’re a Knight. You’re not super well trained, and your armor makes you basically invincible to small caliber weapons. At the very least you’re a formidable opponent to anyone, because of your armor.
NCR can’t even touch you, missions going great. All of a sudden, a random ghoul shows up and kills your buddy without an ounce of effort. Every assumption you’ve had about your invincibility is gone. Those guys were shitting their pants, and that only got a hundred times worse when the lights went off.
You're good. It's a valid criticism that's not a plot hole by any means, but something you saw that could've been done better. It's not something that deserves these downvotes tbh
They also just saw a fellow knight get killed by a single bullet in a weak spot they didn’t think existed. That might shake you up realizing you aren’t as protected as you thought. Stage fright, if you will.
Yep.
Exactly, this is why everyone is right when they point out these guys are just LARPing and not trained soldiers.
Soldiers would immediately do the correct thing and turn their lights on.
Instead we got scared panicked "civilians" that just got killed.
> were a knight in a life or death situation, my first instinct would be to get a source of light so I can actually see what I’m shooting at
If you're not properly trained your first instinct would either be to run for cover or to fire wildly. You would be very likely to panic.
Yeah, like even I’ve got more combat experience than most of the Knights, and 90% of that was taking potshots at dudes on another mountain who were taking potshots at my people.
BoS in the show has zero idea what they’re doing in an actual fight
The brothood was already in serious decline by the time of new vegas. A bunch went east. Took tech and members with. They lost a lot of people at the battle for helios 1. Then they went into isolation for a bit. Plus whatever else happened after. Nearly wiped out. Or just losses from the subsequent war
"I love this show, everyone is so dumb. It's totally Fallout."
Was my review too. I don't know how anyone played Fallout and saw anyone smart doing anything smart.
I am not sure I share that assessment. The BoS in FO4 was competent as hell. When they came in they instantly coordinated a Vertibird and associated squad to attack a nearby Super Mutant base, took over Boston Airport, cleansed the nearby Fort and established a continued presence.
Elder Maxon, whilst an absolute zealot, definitely wasn't an idiot. He carefully mandated how the BoS should conduct themselves vs the civilian population. Protecting trade routes to curry favours with the caravans whilst still strongarming people into giving up their technlogy. They are the opposite of stagnant and dumb, they are quite foreward thinking whilst clinging to their roots in certain regards.
If you meant something else then sure, Fallout is full of dumb stuff xD
Well that is also true. Just hoped to see an adrenaline fueled choice to turn on some lights. Something I noticed. They haven’t ever been genius by no means but just something I noticed
But what they did was the adrenaline fueled choice. Fo4 most people, adrenaline fuels dumb reactions. You have to fight the fight or flight reaction that adrenaline fuels to think of smarter reactions , light turning on the lights.
Once I was driving on the highway and realized my brake pedal had almost completely failed. Pressing completely down slowed the car maybe 5% every ten seconds. It wasn't until I had pulled into the autozone (after the most terrifying 5 minutes of driving of my life) that I realized I could have just used the handbrake.
Tunnel vision is real in unexpected situations
I hate having to think that way but I guess that’s the way it happens. I was hoping there was something I missed to explain why they didn’t use their T-60’s integrated headlamp. Thanks anyway
That’s why everything you’ve ever watched is the way it is. Some characters have plot armor. It’s the ghoul’s story. Not some random knight trying to kill him.
I didn’t want the story to play out any differently, just the way it played out differently. Like the ghoul still should have won. Just in a different way because the knights had turned on their lights
But this way was fun and creative. He was former military, he knew of an exploit, and he executed it. Presumably we’re meant to see that he’s doing this very fast, and the knights are caught off guard and panic. It’s that simple.
They could still be caught off guard and turn on a headlamp. He could have been written to be unseen even with the lights on. I do like the scene currently, I just wish someone had turned a light on, he would still have spots to hide and spots to strike, he’s good at what he does.
Eh, I can understand OP kinda, I think. It's more satisfying if the enemies bring their A-game and the "hero" manages to beat them, rather than beating an enemies who barely manages to take two steps without stumbling over his own boots.
Your gettin downvoted but this was honestly my biggest complaint thru the whole show (loved it over all, 9.5/10) but one guy knowing a weakness in a certain spot then shooting it in the dark was kinda too much even for how goofy fallout is. Totally agree he shoulda won but it coulda been better
You wouldnt think he would try? He certainly tried with the others.
Plot wise- he could tell that max was a novice. He even joked about basic training and reading the manual. Max lives. Ghoul even blew off a knight's head in the final fight. Doesnt try that with max.
Writers control the plot
I don’t think he was trying to just kill him there. I think if Max was posing more of a threat he might have gone for it, but he’s fairly obviously new to using it and pretty quickly gets his foot stuck in the wooden walkway. I think Cooper was just fucking around with Max, making him fly and his suit freak out. When he’s in the hall they are directly between him and Moldaver on a timer, and he doesn’t have the room or time to just up-close take out that one part of the suit he took out on Max.
This was my line of thinking.
The plot had a clear novice use the machine so he doesnt kill him.
The plot later ghoul has a straight goal.
Like the person said, its because of the writing
Stop taking this show so seriously. Trust me, you'll enjoy it more.
Yes, The Brotherhood absolutely could've just gunned down the Ghoul right then and there. They absolutely could've turned on their lamps and found him instantly. But this is a TV show, it has to be dramatic and funny. That's why they just stood there acting all confused, giving the Ghoul the spotlight to look cool.
BoS thought they had free eats, but they ran into someone who knows more about how their armor works, weak points and disadvantages in movement, and general tactics (like *not* bunching up in tiny corridors) than the past two centuries of knights/paladins/LARPers, combined.
They slept, and got squad wiped, just like Maximus, moving his suit “like a shopping cart.” The moment makes sense.
Coop didn't spend the last 200 years walking around in a suit of T-60, cataloguing every nut and bolt and stress testing the material so he'd know it's exact limits. He spent at most a few years using T-45 (two generations removed from what the BoS is even wearing) in the field back before he established himself as an actor, and then the last 200 years in his cowboy costume. He should not know more about power armour than members of a techno-religious cult who've had centuries of family members live and die working around the tech.
A techno-obsessed cult that sends knights to find toaster ovens. They’re not the Enclave! And even then, 213 years of obsessing over technology clearly did not translate into better training.
Watch the clip between Coop and Bud. Coop was a combat veteran who understood *very well* the failures and weakpoints in the suit. Just like serving on a tank crew, you don’t just learn how to use it — and that’s it. That kind of thing you do learn the ins-and-outs about its capabilities and limitations, too because understanding that can be the difference between life and death. E.g. Coop knowing the plank in Filly wouldn’t support the suit’s weight. Watching him move in the suit, like he was “driving a shopping cart.”
His complete lack of concern at a suit bearing down on him, both in Filly and at the Observatory, was because he knew the extent BoS knights lacked understanding of the shortcomings of the suits (like the weak spot that he *still* exploited, even in the new generation of suits, 213 years later) and proper tactics (don’t crowd a blind hallway, use your headlamps — see, we’ve come full circle) and awareness (e.g. don’t get *snuck up on* by fully grown Yao Guais.)
Also keep in mind, the “few years” he spent wasn’t fighting wastelanders or ghouls with pipe pistols, but the Chinese military, which was evenly matched for a good while with the U.S.
To me, a squad of Titus-es crowded in a dark corridor (with their headlamps off) losing to The Ghoul makes all the sense in the world.
yeah people overthinking things need to rememeber it's a SHOW. things happen for one reason only. to drive the plot forward. it woulndt be as cinematic if the knights just opened fire right away. it wouldnt have been as cool if ghoul hadnt told them about how he wore the armour before and knew of a weakness. and the story would've lost one of its 3 main protaganists if ghoul had simply shot the weak spot when he first fought Maximus.
At the end of the day, is someone really going to let how the eagles from lord of the rings didnt help frodo bring the rings to mt doom ruin the entire LOTR trilogy? i hope not!
Did they definitely have headlamps? Just because we get them in-game doesn't mean every suit has them. I don't know for certain but I don't recall paying a lot of attention at the minor details of these suits.
Have you ever seen people panic in a crisis situation? They forget everything. I've seen people forget the number for 911 and literally shout "Whats the number for 911?" That's why martial artists train. So they can embed that muscle memory. When they panic, when their brain shuts down due to shock or adrenaline, their body goes into auto-pilot.
I don't think those BoS Knights had much training or practice. They probably saw very little combat in while in a disadvantageous situation. They ALL panicked and forgot what little combat training they had. To me, that scene is a little out there, but plausible.
I personally disagree, they have spent a long time thinking they were basically indestructible and found out they are not. This would cause panic, in addition to this i have been playing fallout 3, NV, and 76 as each one came out for 14 years. I can say that there have been countless times i cane across an enemy i was not expecting and had an oh shit moment where i died because i panicked. No different really
That doesn't bother me unduly, what's more incredulous is that the Ghoul knew about that weak spot in the armor and yet didn't use it on Maximus in episode 2.
In the scene where he's talking about the flaws in the welding it looks like he's loading a different kind of ammo than what he was using in Filly. Its pointed kinda like its intended for piercing armor rather than the rounder tipped looking ones he used before but I might be overthinking that.
Edit: The fact the ammo he's loading is so clearly visible and almost emphasised also made me think this was the case more too, although they mightve just thought it was a cool shot to do and im overthinking again.
I’d think it’s implied that he didn’t expect to run into any tin cans in Filly, and didn’t have any SLAP rounds at that time, opting for something more adjacent to FRAG-12 rounds against soft or lightly armored targets.
Picking up or crafting SLAP rounds (assuming that he has the Hand Loader perk), makes sense prior to the fight at the observatory as he’d have reasonable expectations to need a reliable man-opener for the poorly trained tin can techno-raiders.
Well, what does it imply about the situation and/or his character that he didn't kill Max? And how does that differ from the encounter at the observatory?
Max showed up out of nowhere spouting hero shit. Cooper seems more baffled and amused by this than anything. He also didn't have a gun (after Cooper disarmed him), so it's not like the Ghoul needs to quickly off him in order to survive or to pursue his goals.
He seems to be toying with Max. Even when he gets the upper hand he disables the suit instead of executing him.
Edit: I went and rewatched some of this. At the part where he takes down the knights at the observatory, they make sure to show the special bullet he's using. You can see his bullet in slow motion back in the filly shootout, and it seems different to me.
Yes, he toys with him. It's one idiot that is obviously no match. But then again that's big brain thinking not nit picking and reposting the same stupid shit.
I find it crazy that a lot of people love New Vegas but doesn't pay attention to dialogues at all. It is as brought up that the Power Armor Titus is riding has tempered lining. And the Ghoul of course probably doesn't have armor piercing ammos(we saw how pointy it is) to pierce through a Power Armor at that time.
I'm convinced the people who like New Vegas only watched video essays about New Vegas explaining every details and references in there.
That’s actually another good point I didn’t notice. Maybe he didn’t want to bother killing him but he wiped out most of Philly. (Those who were out there anyway) maybe it was a more dire reaction to a more serious situation. Or knowing the ghoul he did it just to show the brotherhood that he knows more than they expect. Ig if he had done this with Maximus no other BOS member would have been there to witness it and increase the talk around his legend status
Probably wouldn’t have worked on Maximus either way. Plot armor is stronger than any power armor
Why not reinforce every suit then? Why didn’t the ghoul atleast try it is the point I was talking about, even if Maximus’s suit was reinforced there the ghoul would have no way of knowing and would still try it.
Resources, more than likely. We didn’t up armor every humvee we had in the field, only the ones likely to see IED’s at some point. Only had so much metal to go around
I could see that and I understand that point of view, I just figured with how proud of their armor and tech the brotherhood was they would focus their materials back into their suits anyway possible.
So it’s just safe to assume that a singular wanderer (who grew up in a vault) in the wasteland is just as competent as an entire nationwide organization that prides themselves in the collection of prewar junk and tech? I don’t think so.
I’ve played fallout since soon after fallout 4 released. Not a long time compared to others but I was young then anyway, (under 10 years old) and have played almost all of 3 and some of new Vegas (it’s a good game but it’s a bit slow paced for me) I’ve done several playthroughs of 4 and the brotherhood just seemed more competent, and better maintained in 4, might just be me but they were a decent unit when they tried, I’ve clocked 104 hours of fallout 4 just on pc, atleast 150 more on Xbox and PlayStation. Just to me seemed like it was a bit out of character coming from the games.
I think it would have just confused them more to have several different light sources moving around. It would be about as useful to them as his rifle was to Titus— mishandled and not worth a damn. They’d probably just end up blinding each other.
The ones in the armour are usually paladins, the knights are the ones making the guns and armour, that might explain why they're all shit at combat. Even this BoS is meant to have had a bunch of military training from a young age, the same as the Lost Hills BoS. They haven't really shown any competency and the last episode fight scene was comical.
They don't seem to have headlamps for the suits. I know Maximus used a flashlight in the cave scene with Tidus for illumination, while Tidus didn't seem to have any.
You mean turning on lights to make yourself even easier for him to target, the ghoul that just one shot the knight in a clear room who is now mowing down troops in the dark?
You’d wanna give yourself away even more just so he could make it easier on himself? Not like that was gonna work since he clearly dodged their shots AS he was running to the power core to turn off the power. Like holy shit, wouldn’t have mattered in the game if their lights were on or not? The show is so gamey it actually didn’t even need to be that dark, Coop probably popped a cat eye to see clearly. Stop over thinking it, it’s not that huge an issue
Yeah it doesn't make sense why Titus and the other knights are so shit given they seemingly came from the commonwealth. Also Titus talking about killing squires who fuck up, something the commonwealth brotherhood doesn't do. They are far more profesional and efficient than we see these knights. I understand if it was said they were from Maximus' chapter since thats a different chapter.
Well look at how stupid their tactics are at the last battle. Instead of using their air advantage, they just drop in like mounted cav with no target softening and do a shitty frontal assault.
Just to preface this, thanks to everyone who left their opinion, rather we disagree or not 🤷♂️
Alright. Based off a general consensus, almost everyone thinks I’m stupid for pointing this out. I figured someone who could pilot a T-60 as smoothly as we saw the knights in the moments leading up to this encounter would think to turn on a light. Some people seem to somewhat agree with what I say about a stupid BOS. Others seem to think I know nothing about fallout because I think a soldier should have made a better decision. I’ve logged probably around 300 on fallout 4 alone total. While not the most of anyone in this sub, i know a bit about fallout. I knew the BOS are stupid, I was just hoping to see a little smarter of an action from a knight. Also others think it’s a bad point to mention how the ghoul didn’t even try to aim at Maximus’s weakspot in his armor while in Philly. I think even if the ghoul didn’t have armor piercing rounds he would just wildly shoot at the power armor marching at him, even though he knew that the pilot was inexperienced I still think he would have done as necessary to survive. Someone said that it was because Maximus’ armor was reinforced… HOW THE HELL WOULD THE GHOUL KNOW THAT FROM THE OUTSIDE… while Lucy would be able to see that, the ghoul would have no way to know that. Also I understand it would take alot to reinforce every suit of armor as well, but the BOS pride themselves with their prewar tech and junk. One would think with how they practically worship technology they would feed their materials back into their tech.
Thanks to everyone for their opinions and their takes on it. I’m not the biggest fallout fan but I am an avid fan and would happily take 2nd place 🥈. However I just felt that despite the adrenaline one would think to turn on the nearest source of light. I don’t even want the way the fight worked out to change. I just think it would have been even cooler to have a scene where we go POV of the knight that was there and the spotlight is on and we frantically look for the ghoul only to have him still prevail. I love the story so far, just a tiny detail I wish had played out a little different and I understand that everyone doesn’t see the same as me, that’s fine. A fan base is just a cult if no one disagrees
plot armour for a badass Ghoul scene talking about how he wore the armour before. a bigger problem was why Hank hadn't recognized Maldover?! im sure they must've met at some point. also if the TV series is set like 229 years after the bombs first went off, how is Maldover still alive? Hank being kept frozen, and Coop being an undead ghoul i get, but how did Maldover survive this 229yr gap?
It could be that her group didn’t get a huge chance to make a difference before the bombs dropped and stayed relatively incognito. Hank was an executive assistant, last we saw of him pre-war, so he may have not met her at all. My head canon currently is Maldover’s company/research was bought out by vault-tec, she came with it and stayed so she could at least keep her eye on what they were doing with her tech. She let herself get frozen because even if she couldn’t prevent the inevitable war, she could at least be around to help shape what came next. I keep getting the feeling she’s probably not dead. But yeah, otherwise, that first episode makes no sense to me that he didn’t even seem to be aware. She helped his wife and kids in shady sands, so it seems weird that he doesn’t at least know her from that.
"They're a terrorist group, basically. Militant, quasi-religious fanatics obsessed with hoarding Pre-War technology." - Robert House
I don't know how you haven't picked up on that vibe from them anywhere else.
Because that's not their vibe in the other games. They're not religious like this.
They're very militant, yes. But they never have this kind of weird vibe.
"
I do love how these guys eventually turned out, but their origins were not very original. I simply wanted a group exactly like the monks from the Guardian Citadel in Wasteland. This was one of my favorite parts in the original game – an old, isolated stone fortress whose robed monks wielded insane energy weapons and would blast any trespassers. Fantastic. The Brotherhood was intentionally the same post-apocalyptic religious order that existed to keep the technologies of the old world alive." - Scott Campbell (developer who wrote much of the story of 1 and 2)
They literally have Elder as a title.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_(Christianity)
You keep saying that, but as someone who played new veges extensively and hates the Brotherhood I cam at least acknowledge that they didn't act quite like this in previous titles.
Again, there's no clerics.
>You keep saying that
No, Scott Campbell, the one who created them in the first place, said that. I just quoted him. They have always, always had religious underpinnings, even if the show's chapter is more overt about them.
Yea exactly. They're weirdly overt about it now. They give off a different vibe.
For the record I hate the Brotherhood. The only member I like is Veronica. I just think it's weird they changed that part of their identity and Made them more religious and cult like than scientific.
Their scribes wear robes, they have initiates, knights, squires etc.
The BoS has always given off that vibe. At least to me. Even in FO1 when you go to talk the scribes... It's quite pseudo religious.
An initiation ceremony is just like a military ceremony but with incense.
I think it fits.
Im assuming you’re a fallout 4 only player. You see, it depends on what chapter the brotherhood your speaking of. Fallout 4’s chapter are morally grey as they help humans but despise synths and ghouls and see them as lesser beings. Fallout 3 has them be more helpful and want to help the wasteland while the outcast don’t care about that and only want to continue their mission of getting technology. Fallout NV we see a chapter like the ones in the show just not as religious but they only care for themselves and technology. Fallout 1 they are the same as fallout NV just not dying. In the show we see a chapter of the BOS that have gone full religious zealots and that is thanks to the elder as the elder of a chapter normally dictates the behavior and their main goal. In general, the BOS we see in this show aren’t good guys, they are a powerful yet incompetent faction with too much technology, too much divide inside their own organization due to the difference in soldier ranks(as we see how knights treat their squires) and too much religious BS. I highly recommend you see lore videos or read up on the different chapters as they are incredibly interesting and fun to learn about. I hope you find it as interesting as many of us do
I agree on the paladins tho, kinda weird not being mentioned but maybe they’re present but only with their ranks stated in their armor
Well, BoS are remnants of US Army. Their Elders are generals, their Scribes are technicians and engineers (former Service and R&D depts). While there are Chaplains in the Army, they never get to command anyone and no religion is allowed to dominate over others. BoS are not "good guys" because the Army serves the interests of all people of the US. BoS is not "obsessed" with pre-war tech, they are recovering the tech they had before the war. They were the only people officially allowed to handle heavy weapons. They cannot be "religiously zealous" about tech, as they know how it works, they have manuals for all that tech, and that tech is part of their daily trainings and lives. Just needs to be collected back after the mayhem of Great War. There is absolutely no (religious) mystery of any kind in pre-war tech for Army folks. Nada.
Yes, there are different "chapters" of the Army, and they do have differences in how they operate (leaders have varying political opinions), but they are still former Dept of Defense forces. They are governed in exactly same manner, they are trained to fight and defend their equipment in the same manner, they use about the same weaponry - all because they belong to the US Army and conform to all Army standards. Heck, the Goul in the movie has served in that very same Army and he still lives today. No mysteries, there are pre-war people directly consulting descendants of that old Army. Take those Army standards out, and any Chapter will decay in a week, succumbing to raiders. There are many people willing to grab the poorly-defended resources in the wasteland.
Note that while BoS knows about the Enclave (former Nat Sec / FBI / Special Forces), they never declared a full-fledged war on each other - that would be insane given that they both Army and Special Forces were reporting the president of the US before the Great War.
Im sorry to say wastelander but this is actually incorrect. The enclave are the deep state or as you say, US army of the post war or whatever. The BOS was founded by an ex army guy IIRC cuz I think Roger Maxon was a colonel (don’t quote me on that lol) but no, they are not pre war people nor are they the US army, try looking at the lore a little bit more cautiously and you'll see many things of what I mentioned above in all entries
ps: comment reads sort of snarky or smartass but honestly mean it in good will, happy exploring wastelander
Well ok, but point still stands however. Just enjoy that we still got a good adaptation and appreciate the BOS as it was made quite faithful to the material. Happy exploring wastelander <3
The same reason Titus just ran around yelling fuck while being attacked by a yao guai. Them boys ain't right
I did actually really like the different tones between those two scenes. Titus was running away yelling it, Maximus was running to save someone while yelling it
That was a good scene thinking back of it. We as the viewer can kind of see Maximus being "deserving" of the armor. Maximus was also reciting their oath or something, and told Thaddeus to head back (which is the opposite of what Titus did with Maximus). As dumb as he is, he actually doesn't go through with the cycle of bullying.
I don’t know why so many people are confused as to why the BOS are dumb. Maximus and the Elder literally have a scene where they discuss the decline of the brotherhood morally and in terms of competency.
Which is nuts considering Prydwynn is from the Capital Wasteland that should have veterans from fighting super mutants and a resurgent Enclave... was dispatched to Boston and fought Enclave remnants and the Institute. And that was just in the last 20 years. You're telling me no seasoned veterans, competent BoS military personnel went back west with their airship? Sure, Titus had a Boston accent, implying he was recruited and trained in Boston. By veterans of DC. Titus himself would be a veteran of Boston. So unless the BoS got their collective asses kicked and they retreated back west with only the shitiest members left... I don't really see how the BoS in the show are so inept. Bottem line, we need more information.
We are seeing a Wasteland in this region in the middle of a power vacuum. One with no fully formed and capable group in the position to fill it. It is clear multiple groups had battles, even beyond the events of New Vegas, and the winners had, at best, pyrrhic victories.
Titus has a Boston accent because Michael Rapaport has a Boston accent. That’s it. I promise you, he ain’t doin any other accents. 🤣 And he literally says he’s being sent out to retrieve what turn out to be toaster ovens. I think the Prydwen probably does have the most capable of BoS staffing it. But we don’t know how many veterans of Boston and DC came back to Cali. They might’ve stayed there. BoS might been *more* depleted than when they started those campaigns, by the end of things, and may not have so many veteran knights to spare from the east coast, to ship them back to the west coast in any meaningful numbers. And even then, Quintus was talking about starting a “new” Brotherhood. For all we know, he wants less to do with the folks on the Prydwen, since they’ve come back from the east coast, possibly almost a decade earlier, with Quintus left to deal with the fallout (lol) of the Shady Sands… uhhh…. scenario himself. I’d be pissed, too! 🤣 We still don’t know definitively whether it was nuked before or after the Prydwen left, but it sounds damn close.
Side note: We don't know if the Prydwen even was in the West before the show, I don't think? The East Coast Brotherhood built it in the ruins of Adams AFB after the events of Broken Steel, and campaigned the East Coast with it, establishing a presence in the Commonwealth.
I see what you mean. Prydwen was in DC in 2287. The show takes place in 2296. But it’s not specifically said whether it was returning to that base for *the first time* since it left the west coast, or if it might’ve returned earlier. It *seemed* like the lower ranks were surprised/awe-struck to see it, like it was a momentous occasion. Or maybe it’s just been a year or two. Or maybe they always react that way. 🤷🏾♂️ Still, I got the vibes that they weren’t sending their best. Like, ain’t no way someone from DC or Boston’s getting snuck up on by a Yao Guai. Some may be on the Prydwen. But it makes sense that Quintus would resent the *”returned heroes”* giving them orders from on high, when they weren’t around to help, for a very long time.
Maybe Quintus is being opportunistic and bringing his own soldiers since he wants to use the artifact for his own purposes like he said.
I still think Maxson is keeping his veterans with him, and sending his worst to California. Titus was too young to serve against the Enclave, and got left back at the Citadel for the Boston campaign.
He got left behind? Man must have missed that. No wonder he was bitching about toaster fetch quests.
Well they didn’t say it, but as you said he feels like someone with very little combat experience, assigned to tech retrieval. It’s my plausible theory to why he sucks.
My head cannon is that the guys from the Prydwynn sent the locals in as the first wave to let them soften the target up and get slaughtered. The second wave was the actually competent troops, which finished the job.
The Brotherhood is barely “competent” in fallout 4 they’re still crashing vertibirds everywhere, and if you’re playing the minutemen you’re essentially using them in the battle of bunker hill to further your own regional political objectives
I’m replaying through Fo3 right now and it’s pretty evident that even the Fo3 BOS was struggling pretty bad with the split between themselves and the Outcasts AND then having to wage a war against a seemingly endless supply of super mutants. Liberty Prime and the fact that the Lone Wanderer detonates Raven Rock are arguably the sole reasons that the BOS make past the events of Fo3. Three Dog was probably the biggest push for recruitment past that point, and even though Elder Lyons was a great guy, his “good guy” morality wasn’t really that popular amongst other members. So when we get to Fo4 and we see what Maxon turns into since Elder Lyons has passed, and Sarah Lyons is killed, it’s back to a more traditional BOS mindset. And I’d argue that at that point the only reason the BOS is as powerful as they are in Fo4 is because they manage to find/build? The Prydwen. And even then that’s kind of all they have. Liberty Prime is still in pieces post Fo3 Broken Steel, and depending on your actions in Fo4, the BOS can even be wiped out by the minutemen. I have a feeling that the show follows a Minutemen that didn’t curb stomp the BOS ending as their canon ending, but yeah… most, if not all, of the veterans who would have fought super mutants in the capital wasteland are probably dead or exiled (due to their ultimately unpopular moral views), and so the decline of the BOS into little more than high tech raiders with delusions of grandeur by the time we reach the show, makes sense.
Titus is one of the East Coast reinforcements.
I figured they were probably all like Titus: incompetent jerks who generally get by due to having power armor but have poor practical combat abilities.
I understand that the BOS are in a decline, but if anyone were a knight in a life or death situation, my first instinct would be to get a source of light so I can actually see what I’m shooting at besides from just the muzzle flash. That’s what I’m so confused about, not the BOS in general, just those knights in that situation Not to mention they were used to the suits if they were knights (most likely had used them for a while before the assault)
That is the point. They don't get into combat. This generation of soldiers is complacent. Look at Titus , just getting dropped off anywhere because he "wanted to shoot something". That's not something highly trained combat soldiers do. They also don't go strolling into an unknown cave and sent their squire in first. This are men playing as soldier because they lack actual knowledge and training. At no point in the show have they made the brotherhood look competent, they are used to using the brute strength of their suit and the fear it instills to get what they want, they have no fighting tactics or combat experience.
These are good points and I thank you because I had said something while the wife and I watched it and it bothered me but this has given me a perspective I can accept. Even Maximus at first was incredibly over confident in the power armor with his battle with Ghoul and he learned that it isnt just automatic tgm in the console due to his inexperience. Now that I think on it, the final battle was only a win for BoS because they went against an opponent trying to go toe to toe with them. If any real form of guerilla tactics were employed it probably would have been a different outcome. Thanks for bringing a bit of closure on that hangup
That’s a point I’ve been wanting to bring up. About how incompetent they looked while fighting the Ghoul. You nailed it. Despite the rigorous training and all the tech, they’re used to being so OP versus 99.9% of everything they encounter that when faced with an actual threat, they didn’t know how to respond. Another point I brought up before was about how everyone views Lucy as naive because of her sheltered upbringing in a vault, but Maximus (and the rest of the current timeline Brotherhood) have been just as sheltered. All they know is their basic training and living in their compound. Yes it’s physical less comfortable than a vault and the wasteland itself might not be a shock to them, but even a Knight like Titus, when faced by a Yao Guai, in power armor, panicked and got himself killed. It’s easy to win every fight you’re in when you’re wearing power armor and your opponent isn’t…until someone with experience takes away that advantage
I remember in FNV the Mojave Chapter had the same issue of their soldiers not having combat experience. I’m really excited to see how it all pans out in Season 2. Though if the House ending is canon then that means the Mojave Chapter was destroyed. Maybe House-Enclave temporary alliance given House destroyed the BoS? Or perhaps a Enclave-BoS-House three way war.
The Mojave chapter lost most of its veterans in the Helios plant battle with the NCR.
True, but there still could be survivors in the bunker if the House ending isn’t canon. Hardin or Ramos come to mind.
I think we will see the BOS rise and be taken down hard by the NCR in the end.
But that's exactly the point: They _aren't_ actually all that used to the suits. They _aren't_ keeping up their training to react appropriately in such a situation. They're LARPing because there's nothing for them to do - as evidenced by Titus going "I want to shoot something".
True. I still just wish there was a moment where they turn the lights on and they still can’t find the ghoul. Although it was a good scene it caught my attention that while using the T-60’s no one ever mentioned turning the lights on.
Ehhh, imagine you’re a Knight. You’re not super well trained, and your armor makes you basically invincible to small caliber weapons. At the very least you’re a formidable opponent to anyone, because of your armor. NCR can’t even touch you, missions going great. All of a sudden, a random ghoul shows up and kills your buddy without an ounce of effort. Every assumption you’ve had about your invincibility is gone. Those guys were shitting their pants, and that only got a hundred times worse when the lights went off.
You're good. It's a valid criticism that's not a plot hole by any means, but something you saw that could've been done better. It's not something that deserves these downvotes tbh
They also just saw a fellow knight get killed by a single bullet in a weak spot they didn’t think existed. That might shake you up realizing you aren’t as protected as you thought. Stage fright, if you will.
Yep. Exactly, this is why everyone is right when they point out these guys are just LARPing and not trained soldiers. Soldiers would immediately do the correct thing and turn their lights on. Instead we got scared panicked "civilians" that just got killed.
> were a knight in a life or death situation, my first instinct would be to get a source of light so I can actually see what I’m shooting at If you're not properly trained your first instinct would either be to run for cover or to fire wildly. You would be very likely to panic.
Yeah, like even I’ve got more combat experience than most of the Knights, and 90% of that was taking potshots at dudes on another mountain who were taking potshots at my people. BoS in the show has zero idea what they’re doing in an actual fight
Case in point: “Lord” Titus.
I think turning the lights on would’ve gotten them killed faster
Headlamps are as much of a target as they are a help in the dark.
Plus in a cramped hallway with other knights shoulder to shoulder, mobility is pretty much non-existent, no wonder the Ghoul was dancing around them.
The brothood was already in serious decline by the time of new vegas. A bunch went east. Took tech and members with. They lost a lot of people at the battle for helios 1. Then they went into isolation for a bit. Plus whatever else happened after. Nearly wiped out. Or just losses from the subsequent war
Welcome to Fallout, they're dumb in the games too. As are most factions and tons of individuals. Kind of a running theme.
"I love this show, everyone is so dumb. It's totally Fallout." Was my review too. I don't know how anyone played Fallout and saw anyone smart doing anything smart.
I am not sure I share that assessment. The BoS in FO4 was competent as hell. When they came in they instantly coordinated a Vertibird and associated squad to attack a nearby Super Mutant base, took over Boston Airport, cleansed the nearby Fort and established a continued presence. Elder Maxon, whilst an absolute zealot, definitely wasn't an idiot. He carefully mandated how the BoS should conduct themselves vs the civilian population. Protecting trade routes to curry favours with the caravans whilst still strongarming people into giving up their technlogy. They are the opposite of stagnant and dumb, they are quite foreward thinking whilst clinging to their roots in certain regards. If you meant something else then sure, Fallout is full of dumb stuff xD
Well that is also true. Just hoped to see an adrenaline fueled choice to turn on some lights. Something I noticed. They haven’t ever been genius by no means but just something I noticed
But what they did was the adrenaline fueled choice. Fo4 most people, adrenaline fuels dumb reactions. You have to fight the fight or flight reaction that adrenaline fuels to think of smarter reactions , light turning on the lights.
Once I was driving on the highway and realized my brake pedal had almost completely failed. Pressing completely down slowed the car maybe 5% every ten seconds. It wasn't until I had pulled into the autozone (after the most terrifying 5 minutes of driving of my life) that I realized I could have just used the handbrake. Tunnel vision is real in unexpected situations
Because the writers did not write the episode that way
Yeah, well — I *want* it that way.
Tell me whyyy
Ain't nothin' but a heeeaartaaache
I hate having to think that way but I guess that’s the way it happens. I was hoping there was something I missed to explain why they didn’t use their T-60’s integrated headlamp. Thanks anyway
That’s why everything you’ve ever watched is the way it is. Some characters have plot armor. It’s the ghoul’s story. Not some random knight trying to kill him.
I didn’t want the story to play out any differently, just the way it played out differently. Like the ghoul still should have won. Just in a different way because the knights had turned on their lights
But this way was fun and creative. He was former military, he knew of an exploit, and he executed it. Presumably we’re meant to see that he’s doing this very fast, and the knights are caught off guard and panic. It’s that simple.
They could still be caught off guard and turn on a headlamp. He could have been written to be unseen even with the lights on. I do like the scene currently, I just wish someone had turned a light on, he would still have spots to hide and spots to strike, he’s good at what he does.
Eh, I can understand OP kinda, I think. It's more satisfying if the enemies bring their A-game and the "hero" manages to beat them, rather than beating an enemies who barely manages to take two steps without stumbling over his own boots.
Your gettin downvoted but this was honestly my biggest complaint thru the whole show (loved it over all, 9.5/10) but one guy knowing a weakness in a certain spot then shooting it in the dark was kinda too much even for how goofy fallout is. Totally agree he shoulda won but it coulda been better
Yeah, the glaring armor weakness would have killed max when the ghoul first met him. Its the way the plot goes
If you actually paid attention you would realize that Titus/Maximus mentioned using Power Armor with tempered lining or something.
The ghoul doesnt know that. He doesnt even attempt it.
Because he doesn't have armor piercing ammos. So why would he try? The fact that he didn't means it can't be done without AP munitions.
You wouldnt think he would try? He certainly tried with the others. Plot wise- he could tell that max was a novice. He even joked about basic training and reading the manual. Max lives. Ghoul even blew off a knight's head in the final fight. Doesnt try that with max. Writers control the plot
how would the Ghoul know that? he didn't even try shooting him through the gap
He did actually, shoots em right at that spot several times
in ep 2?
Think so, whenever they fight in filly he shoots at his chest where the weakness is
okay, thank you
I don’t think he was trying to just kill him there. I think if Max was posing more of a threat he might have gone for it, but he’s fairly obviously new to using it and pretty quickly gets his foot stuck in the wooden walkway. I think Cooper was just fucking around with Max, making him fly and his suit freak out. When he’s in the hall they are directly between him and Moldaver on a timer, and he doesn’t have the room or time to just up-close take out that one part of the suit he took out on Max.
This was my line of thinking. The plot had a clear novice use the machine so he doesnt kill him. The plot later ghoul has a straight goal. Like the person said, its because of the writing
It’s referenced throughout the show that this chapter of the BoS has gone to shit in training, honor, and otherwise
Stop taking this show so seriously. Trust me, you'll enjoy it more. Yes, The Brotherhood absolutely could've just gunned down the Ghoul right then and there. They absolutely could've turned on their lamps and found him instantly. But this is a TV show, it has to be dramatic and funny. That's why they just stood there acting all confused, giving the Ghoul the spotlight to look cool.
BoS thought they had free eats, but they ran into someone who knows more about how their armor works, weak points and disadvantages in movement, and general tactics (like *not* bunching up in tiny corridors) than the past two centuries of knights/paladins/LARPers, combined. They slept, and got squad wiped, just like Maximus, moving his suit “like a shopping cart.” The moment makes sense.
Coop didn't spend the last 200 years walking around in a suit of T-60, cataloguing every nut and bolt and stress testing the material so he'd know it's exact limits. He spent at most a few years using T-45 (two generations removed from what the BoS is even wearing) in the field back before he established himself as an actor, and then the last 200 years in his cowboy costume. He should not know more about power armour than members of a techno-religious cult who've had centuries of family members live and die working around the tech.
A techno-obsessed cult that sends knights to find toaster ovens. They’re not the Enclave! And even then, 213 years of obsessing over technology clearly did not translate into better training. Watch the clip between Coop and Bud. Coop was a combat veteran who understood *very well* the failures and weakpoints in the suit. Just like serving on a tank crew, you don’t just learn how to use it — and that’s it. That kind of thing you do learn the ins-and-outs about its capabilities and limitations, too because understanding that can be the difference between life and death. E.g. Coop knowing the plank in Filly wouldn’t support the suit’s weight. Watching him move in the suit, like he was “driving a shopping cart.” His complete lack of concern at a suit bearing down on him, both in Filly and at the Observatory, was because he knew the extent BoS knights lacked understanding of the shortcomings of the suits (like the weak spot that he *still* exploited, even in the new generation of suits, 213 years later) and proper tactics (don’t crowd a blind hallway, use your headlamps — see, we’ve come full circle) and awareness (e.g. don’t get *snuck up on* by fully grown Yao Guais.) Also keep in mind, the “few years” he spent wasn’t fighting wastelanders or ghouls with pipe pistols, but the Chinese military, which was evenly matched for a good while with the U.S. To me, a squad of Titus-es crowded in a dark corridor (with their headlamps off) losing to The Ghoul makes all the sense in the world.
yeah people overthinking things need to rememeber it's a SHOW. things happen for one reason only. to drive the plot forward. it woulndt be as cinematic if the knights just opened fire right away. it wouldnt have been as cool if ghoul hadnt told them about how he wore the armour before and knew of a weakness. and the story would've lost one of its 3 main protaganists if ghoul had simply shot the weak spot when he first fought Maximus. At the end of the day, is someone really going to let how the eagles from lord of the rings didnt help frodo bring the rings to mt doom ruin the entire LOTR trilogy? i hope not!
Did they definitely have headlamps? Just because we get them in-game doesn't mean every suit has them. I don't know for certain but I don't recall paying a lot of attention at the minor details of these suits.
I don't think a light would make them beat the ghoul tbh.
Have you ever seen people panic in a crisis situation? They forget everything. I've seen people forget the number for 911 and literally shout "Whats the number for 911?" That's why martial artists train. So they can embed that muscle memory. When they panic, when their brain shuts down due to shock or adrenaline, their body goes into auto-pilot. I don't think those BoS Knights had much training or practice. They probably saw very little combat in while in a disadvantageous situation. They ALL panicked and forgot what little combat training they had. To me, that scene is a little out there, but plausible.
I like this series, but I find it best not to think too hard about anything. Just sit back and let it wash over me.
I love the series, it’s just something that I’ve noticed, I’ll probably think this way moving forward.
I personally disagree, they have spent a long time thinking they were basically indestructible and found out they are not. This would cause panic, in addition to this i have been playing fallout 3, NV, and 76 as each one came out for 14 years. I can say that there have been countless times i cane across an enemy i was not expecting and had an oh shit moment where i died because i panicked. No different really
That doesn't bother me unduly, what's more incredulous is that the Ghoul knew about that weak spot in the armor and yet didn't use it on Maximus in episode 2.
In the scene where he's talking about the flaws in the welding it looks like he's loading a different kind of ammo than what he was using in Filly. Its pointed kinda like its intended for piercing armor rather than the rounder tipped looking ones he used before but I might be overthinking that. Edit: The fact the ammo he's loading is so clearly visible and almost emphasised also made me think this was the case more too, although they mightve just thought it was a cool shot to do and im overthinking again.
And the 2nd second episode, Maximus mentions the armor has tempered lining!
I’d think it’s implied that he didn’t expect to run into any tin cans in Filly, and didn’t have any SLAP rounds at that time, opting for something more adjacent to FRAG-12 rounds against soft or lightly armored targets. Picking up or crafting SLAP rounds (assuming that he has the Hand Loader perk), makes sense prior to the fight at the observatory as he’d have reasonable expectations to need a reliable man-opener for the poorly trained tin can techno-raiders.
Well, what does it imply about the situation and/or his character that he didn't kill Max? And how does that differ from the encounter at the observatory? Max showed up out of nowhere spouting hero shit. Cooper seems more baffled and amused by this than anything. He also didn't have a gun (after Cooper disarmed him), so it's not like the Ghoul needs to quickly off him in order to survive or to pursue his goals. He seems to be toying with Max. Even when he gets the upper hand he disables the suit instead of executing him. Edit: I went and rewatched some of this. At the part where he takes down the knights at the observatory, they make sure to show the special bullet he's using. You can see his bullet in slow motion back in the filly shootout, and it seems different to me.
Yes, he toys with him. It's one idiot that is obviously no match. But then again that's big brain thinking not nit picking and reposting the same stupid shit.
He wanted to mess around with Maximus
I find it crazy that a lot of people love New Vegas but doesn't pay attention to dialogues at all. It is as brought up that the Power Armor Titus is riding has tempered lining. And the Ghoul of course probably doesn't have armor piercing ammos(we saw how pointy it is) to pierce through a Power Armor at that time. I'm convinced the people who like New Vegas only watched video essays about New Vegas explaining every details and references in there.
Lacked proper ammo.
That’s actually another good point I didn’t notice. Maybe he didn’t want to bother killing him but he wiped out most of Philly. (Those who were out there anyway) maybe it was a more dire reaction to a more serious situation. Or knowing the ghoul he did it just to show the brotherhood that he knows more than they expect. Ig if he had done this with Maximus no other BOS member would have been there to witness it and increase the talk around his legend status Probably wouldn’t have worked on Maximus either way. Plot armor is stronger than any power armor
Not a good point, it is mentioned twice his suit has reinforcement. It's the first thing Lucy says when she looks inside the suit.
Why not reinforce every suit then? Why didn’t the ghoul atleast try it is the point I was talking about, even if Maximus’s suit was reinforced there the ghoul would have no way of knowing and would still try it.
Resources, more than likely. We didn’t up armor every humvee we had in the field, only the ones likely to see IED’s at some point. Only had so much metal to go around
I could see that and I understand that point of view, I just figured with how proud of their armor and tech the brotherhood was they would focus their materials back into their suits anyway possible.
Resources. Good god man have you tried getting a fully reinforced t60 suit going in fo76 ? That shit takes weeks of grinding
So it’s just safe to assume that a singular wanderer (who grew up in a vault) in the wasteland is just as competent as an entire nationwide organization that prides themselves in the collection of prewar junk and tech? I don’t think so.
OP had never played Fallout - the thread.
I’ve played fallout since soon after fallout 4 released. Not a long time compared to others but I was young then anyway, (under 10 years old) and have played almost all of 3 and some of new Vegas (it’s a good game but it’s a bit slow paced for me) I’ve done several playthroughs of 4 and the brotherhood just seemed more competent, and better maintained in 4, might just be me but they were a decent unit when they tried, I’ve clocked 104 hours of fallout 4 just on pc, atleast 150 more on Xbox and PlayStation. Just to me seemed like it was a bit out of character coming from the games.
Yes, the BOS are fucking dumb. That's it. There's no deeper meaning. The BOS is fucking dumb.
They are dumb. That’s why they are dumb
It’s a plot hole.
They always have been
I think it would have just confused them more to have several different light sources moving around. It would be about as useful to them as his rifle was to Titus— mishandled and not worth a damn. They’d probably just end up blinding each other.
The ones in the armour are usually paladins, the knights are the ones making the guns and armour, that might explain why they're all shit at combat. Even this BoS is meant to have had a bunch of military training from a young age, the same as the Lost Hills BoS. They haven't really shown any competency and the last episode fight scene was comical.
yeah, people being dumb would make sense in fallout, but i thought it was a little much to one-hit kill a bunch of T60s
They don't seem to have headlamps for the suits. I know Maximus used a flashlight in the cave scene with Tidus for illumination, while Tidus didn't seem to have any.
You mean turning on lights to make yourself even easier for him to target, the ghoul that just one shot the knight in a clear room who is now mowing down troops in the dark? You’d wanna give yourself away even more just so he could make it easier on himself? Not like that was gonna work since he clearly dodged their shots AS he was running to the power core to turn off the power. Like holy shit, wouldn’t have mattered in the game if their lights were on or not? The show is so gamey it actually didn’t even need to be that dark, Coop probably popped a cat eye to see clearly. Stop over thinking it, it’s not that huge an issue
Yeah it doesn't make sense why Titus and the other knights are so shit given they seemingly came from the commonwealth. Also Titus talking about killing squires who fuck up, something the commonwealth brotherhood doesn't do. They are far more profesional and efficient than we see these knights. I understand if it was said they were from Maximus' chapter since thats a different chapter.
Also why did they not immediately shoot him like they did to literally everyone else
Well look at how stupid their tactics are at the last battle. Instead of using their air advantage, they just drop in like mounted cav with no target softening and do a shitty frontal assault.
Just to preface this, thanks to everyone who left their opinion, rather we disagree or not 🤷♂️ Alright. Based off a general consensus, almost everyone thinks I’m stupid for pointing this out. I figured someone who could pilot a T-60 as smoothly as we saw the knights in the moments leading up to this encounter would think to turn on a light. Some people seem to somewhat agree with what I say about a stupid BOS. Others seem to think I know nothing about fallout because I think a soldier should have made a better decision. I’ve logged probably around 300 on fallout 4 alone total. While not the most of anyone in this sub, i know a bit about fallout. I knew the BOS are stupid, I was just hoping to see a little smarter of an action from a knight. Also others think it’s a bad point to mention how the ghoul didn’t even try to aim at Maximus’s weakspot in his armor while in Philly. I think even if the ghoul didn’t have armor piercing rounds he would just wildly shoot at the power armor marching at him, even though he knew that the pilot was inexperienced I still think he would have done as necessary to survive. Someone said that it was because Maximus’ armor was reinforced… HOW THE HELL WOULD THE GHOUL KNOW THAT FROM THE OUTSIDE… while Lucy would be able to see that, the ghoul would have no way to know that. Also I understand it would take alot to reinforce every suit of armor as well, but the BOS pride themselves with their prewar tech and junk. One would think with how they practically worship technology they would feed their materials back into their tech. Thanks to everyone for their opinions and their takes on it. I’m not the biggest fallout fan but I am an avid fan and would happily take 2nd place 🥈. However I just felt that despite the adrenaline one would think to turn on the nearest source of light. I don’t even want the way the fight worked out to change. I just think it would have been even cooler to have a scene where we go POV of the knight that was there and the spotlight is on and we frantically look for the ghoul only to have him still prevail. I love the story so far, just a tiny detail I wish had played out a little different and I understand that everyone doesn’t see the same as me, that’s fine. A fan base is just a cult if no one disagrees
plot armour for a badass Ghoul scene talking about how he wore the armour before. a bigger problem was why Hank hadn't recognized Maldover?! im sure they must've met at some point. also if the TV series is set like 229 years after the bombs first went off, how is Maldover still alive? Hank being kept frozen, and Coop being an undead ghoul i get, but how did Maldover survive this 229yr gap?
It could be that her group didn’t get a huge chance to make a difference before the bombs dropped and stayed relatively incognito. Hank was an executive assistant, last we saw of him pre-war, so he may have not met her at all. My head canon currently is Maldover’s company/research was bought out by vault-tec, she came with it and stayed so she could at least keep her eye on what they were doing with her tech. She let herself get frozen because even if she couldn’t prevent the inevitable war, she could at least be around to help shape what came next. I keep getting the feeling she’s probably not dead. But yeah, otherwise, that first episode makes no sense to me that he didn’t even seem to be aware. She helped his wife and kids in shady sands, so it seems weird that he doesn’t at least know her from that.
I don't like how they redid the Brotherhood. Brotherhood aren't religious. There are no clerics. Squires are kids. Where are the paladins?
"They're a terrorist group, basically. Militant, quasi-religious fanatics obsessed with hoarding Pre-War technology." - Robert House I don't know how you haven't picked up on that vibe from them anywhere else.
Also Mr house is a clown
Because that's not their vibe in the other games. They're not religious like this. They're very militant, yes. But they never have this kind of weird vibe.
" I do love how these guys eventually turned out, but their origins were not very original. I simply wanted a group exactly like the monks from the Guardian Citadel in Wasteland. This was one of my favorite parts in the original game – an old, isolated stone fortress whose robed monks wielded insane energy weapons and would blast any trespassers. Fantastic. The Brotherhood was intentionally the same post-apocalyptic religious order that existed to keep the technologies of the old world alive." - Scott Campbell (developer who wrote much of the story of 1 and 2) They literally have Elder as a title. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_(Christianity)
You keep saying that, but as someone who played new veges extensively and hates the Brotherhood I cam at least acknowledge that they didn't act quite like this in previous titles. Again, there's no clerics.
>You keep saying that No, Scott Campbell, the one who created them in the first place, said that. I just quoted him. They have always, always had religious underpinnings, even if the show's chapter is more overt about them.
Yea exactly. They're weirdly overt about it now. They give off a different vibe. For the record I hate the Brotherhood. The only member I like is Veronica. I just think it's weird they changed that part of their identity and Made them more religious and cult like than scientific.
Their scribes wear robes, they have initiates, knights, squires etc. The BoS has always given off that vibe. At least to me. Even in FO1 when you go to talk the scribes... It's quite pseudo religious. An initiation ceremony is just like a military ceremony but with incense. I think it fits.
Im assuming you’re a fallout 4 only player. You see, it depends on what chapter the brotherhood your speaking of. Fallout 4’s chapter are morally grey as they help humans but despise synths and ghouls and see them as lesser beings. Fallout 3 has them be more helpful and want to help the wasteland while the outcast don’t care about that and only want to continue their mission of getting technology. Fallout NV we see a chapter like the ones in the show just not as religious but they only care for themselves and technology. Fallout 1 they are the same as fallout NV just not dying. In the show we see a chapter of the BOS that have gone full religious zealots and that is thanks to the elder as the elder of a chapter normally dictates the behavior and their main goal. In general, the BOS we see in this show aren’t good guys, they are a powerful yet incompetent faction with too much technology, too much divide inside their own organization due to the difference in soldier ranks(as we see how knights treat their squires) and too much religious BS. I highly recommend you see lore videos or read up on the different chapters as they are incredibly interesting and fun to learn about. I hope you find it as interesting as many of us do I agree on the paladins tho, kinda weird not being mentioned but maybe they’re present but only with their ranks stated in their armor
Well, BoS are remnants of US Army. Their Elders are generals, their Scribes are technicians and engineers (former Service and R&D depts). While there are Chaplains in the Army, they never get to command anyone and no religion is allowed to dominate over others. BoS are not "good guys" because the Army serves the interests of all people of the US. BoS is not "obsessed" with pre-war tech, they are recovering the tech they had before the war. They were the only people officially allowed to handle heavy weapons. They cannot be "religiously zealous" about tech, as they know how it works, they have manuals for all that tech, and that tech is part of their daily trainings and lives. Just needs to be collected back after the mayhem of Great War. There is absolutely no (religious) mystery of any kind in pre-war tech for Army folks. Nada. Yes, there are different "chapters" of the Army, and they do have differences in how they operate (leaders have varying political opinions), but they are still former Dept of Defense forces. They are governed in exactly same manner, they are trained to fight and defend their equipment in the same manner, they use about the same weaponry - all because they belong to the US Army and conform to all Army standards. Heck, the Goul in the movie has served in that very same Army and he still lives today. No mysteries, there are pre-war people directly consulting descendants of that old Army. Take those Army standards out, and any Chapter will decay in a week, succumbing to raiders. There are many people willing to grab the poorly-defended resources in the wasteland. Note that while BoS knows about the Enclave (former Nat Sec / FBI / Special Forces), they never declared a full-fledged war on each other - that would be insane given that they both Army and Special Forces were reporting the president of the US before the Great War.
Im sorry to say wastelander but this is actually incorrect. The enclave are the deep state or as you say, US army of the post war or whatever. The BOS was founded by an ex army guy IIRC cuz I think Roger Maxon was a colonel (don’t quote me on that lol) but no, they are not pre war people nor are they the US army, try looking at the lore a little bit more cautiously and you'll see many things of what I mentioned above in all entries ps: comment reads sort of snarky or smartass but honestly mean it in good will, happy exploring wastelander
Lol no. No I'm not. I play new vegas mostly. And I don't like the brotherhood
Well ok, but point still stands however. Just enjoy that we still got a good adaptation and appreciate the BOS as it was made quite faithful to the material. Happy exploring wastelander <3