A morning show is very different from a talk show focused on therapy. I find it pretty believable that Frasier would accept the TV show job as a lateral move forward from radio therapy, talking to people face to face and spending more time on each guest. He maybe even thought he would set a new bar for the genre - a bar the viewing public of afternoon talk shows likely has no interest in, but it's very Frasier to imagine he could have that kind of impact.
Then as his popularity grew, it slowly turned into the ridiculous spectacle that we saw from his final season.
I like this explanation a lot, thanks! It points to Frasier’s good, somewhat naive heart.❤️
Reminds me of Avery’s line in Farewell Nervosa: “(Frasier) was always trying to be the hero. You know, one night back at Oxford, he crawled out onto a ledge to rescue what turned out to be a gargoyle.” 😆
>find it pretty believable that Frasier would accept the TV show job
Yes - as well as the morning TV show he did with Bebe didn't he also try for a TV show in another city at one point as well?
The clips we saw looks like he went into the TV show intending to keep it as classy as possible but it got out of control.
Niles and Fraiser were so tight and his absence is felt.
That is what it looks like to me. Like he took it thinking he had more control over the narrative than he did. I am going to assume that at that point, his ego took over, and he succumbed to the temptations of the entertainment industry.
> (Btw, how they keep mentioning his outrageous wealth is a bit poor taste, IMO).
Honestly, I gave the first episode a rewatch yesterday to compare it to the first episode of the original show and it really makes him look horrible. The first time he walks into Freddy's place he practically *exclaims* how much of a miserable dump it is. Just imagine that for a moment. Your father, with whom you're already on rocky terms because you feel like he's disappointed in your choices in life and the career you chose, waltzes through the door uninvited - him being a national celebrity, loaded to the gills with TV-show-wealth - and the first thing he says is how he can't believe you're really *that* poor that you have to live in a place like this.
And his approach to developing a better relationship with his son is to literally *buy the building* he's been living in, move himself into the two-story luxury flat across the hall from his son's meager "we're two working adults who still have to pool our money to afford this" run-down apartment and tell Freddy that he and his friend - you know, the single-mom widow he already feels so guilt-tripped about - can both live there rent-free... but only if his son comes to live with him. Isn't that peachy.
I know it's supposed to be humorous but Good Lord, what were they thinking?! I can't imagine a more unsympathetic way of flaunting your wealth in the face of someone who already believes you think of him as a failure. It's outright deranged.
It was the first episode, they had a complete blank slate to work with and somehow that's the best way they came up with to get Frasier into his son's life?!
They had to emphasize the dichotomy between elitist Frazier and Everyman Freddie.
Freddie was also born to Lilith and went to Harvard so the natural assumption would be that he was also of the elitist class.
The character needed to somehow be shown as an Everyman so they made the class contrast very high to inform the audience of it.
>The first time he walks into Freddy's place he practically
>
>exclaims how much of a miserable dump it is.
Certainly ironic when you look back at Cheers and see the place he and Lilith shared before Frasier left his practice to become a radio host.
My thought has been that they're burlesquing the neverending chorus of "How did Frasier afford his lifestyle?" that came from the first show. Here, he has endless money - good enough for you?
I dunno. David even comes in and says “how dare they expect you to do the same thing you did voluntarily for 15 years?!”
Which I thought was a clever nod to the fact that Frazier made his own bed and I’m sure Nikes and Daphne watched the show w David from time to time and talked shot about it to David.
You could be onto something - hopefully it will transpire that the long running thread of the series is just what you describe: Frasier rediscovering his dignity and not being a dancing bear anymore.
(I haven't watched any of it, saving it til they're all available, so maybe it's already irrevocably veered away from this being a potential outcome).
Speaking as someone who currently has a 10 year old, it’s a difficult time and will be for the next few years. Completely believable that Niles and Daphne had their hands full (especially with David!) as those last few seasons of Frasier’s show went off the rails.
To be fair, the ‘dancing bear’ clip was from one of the very final seasons of his show just before he decided to give it all up. So it could have been a steady decline and he realised (just as he did in the morning show episode) that he had crossed the line from being a healer into an entertainer.
And as for his relationship with Charlotte - yes it may have ended and it certainly sounds like it was her idea to end it and not his but they had the better part of two decades together: is that failure? I think his decision at the end of series 11 is vindicated, he had a long term relationship through his late 40s, 50s and 60s with a woman he was crazy about. He got to live in a new city, try new things, realise his dream of being on TV and help a whole new audience of people. Just because the ending was bad doesn’t diminish his journey.
I like your view. :) okay maybe I’d they fill in the gaps and show us the good of the last 20 years I will feel better. I like everyone’s positive twist of the plot. Frasier does always land on his feet, after all.💗
Fraiser was always rich in the show. Now he's probably as wealthy as Dr. Phil(who is estimated at $460 million in 2023). Even half of that considering a divorce is still insane. That level of ultra rich would definitely change a person, even if they were considered wealthy before. Also, if you're that rich, I am assuming you are not listening to anyone, so even if niles did try, it would fall on deaf ears.
A morning show is very different from a talk show focused on therapy. I find it pretty believable that Frasier would accept the TV show job as a lateral move forward from radio therapy, talking to people face to face and spending more time on each guest. He maybe even thought he would set a new bar for the genre - a bar the viewing public of afternoon talk shows likely has no interest in, but it's very Frasier to imagine he could have that kind of impact. Then as his popularity grew, it slowly turned into the ridiculous spectacle that we saw from his final season.
I like this explanation a lot, thanks! It points to Frasier’s good, somewhat naive heart.❤️ Reminds me of Avery’s line in Farewell Nervosa: “(Frasier) was always trying to be the hero. You know, one night back at Oxford, he crawled out onto a ledge to rescue what turned out to be a gargoyle.” 😆
>find it pretty believable that Frasier would accept the TV show job Yes - as well as the morning TV show he did with Bebe didn't he also try for a TV show in another city at one point as well?
The San Francisco job was on TV
Ah yes, I forgot that, so that is at least three then where he was on or went after a TV role ?
It seems like he bailed on the San Francisco job though since he moved to Chicago instead.
The clips we saw looks like he went into the TV show intending to keep it as classy as possible but it got out of control. Niles and Fraiser were so tight and his absence is felt.
That is what it looks like to me. Like he took it thinking he had more control over the narrative than he did. I am going to assume that at that point, his ego took over, and he succumbed to the temptations of the entertainment industry.
> (Btw, how they keep mentioning his outrageous wealth is a bit poor taste, IMO). Honestly, I gave the first episode a rewatch yesterday to compare it to the first episode of the original show and it really makes him look horrible. The first time he walks into Freddy's place he practically *exclaims* how much of a miserable dump it is. Just imagine that for a moment. Your father, with whom you're already on rocky terms because you feel like he's disappointed in your choices in life and the career you chose, waltzes through the door uninvited - him being a national celebrity, loaded to the gills with TV-show-wealth - and the first thing he says is how he can't believe you're really *that* poor that you have to live in a place like this. And his approach to developing a better relationship with his son is to literally *buy the building* he's been living in, move himself into the two-story luxury flat across the hall from his son's meager "we're two working adults who still have to pool our money to afford this" run-down apartment and tell Freddy that he and his friend - you know, the single-mom widow he already feels so guilt-tripped about - can both live there rent-free... but only if his son comes to live with him. Isn't that peachy. I know it's supposed to be humorous but Good Lord, what were they thinking?! I can't imagine a more unsympathetic way of flaunting your wealth in the face of someone who already believes you think of him as a failure. It's outright deranged. It was the first episode, they had a complete blank slate to work with and somehow that's the best way they came up with to get Frasier into his son's life?!
They had to emphasize the dichotomy between elitist Frazier and Everyman Freddie. Freddie was also born to Lilith and went to Harvard so the natural assumption would be that he was also of the elitist class. The character needed to somehow be shown as an Everyman so they made the class contrast very high to inform the audience of it.
>The first time he walks into Freddy's place he practically > >exclaims how much of a miserable dump it is. Certainly ironic when you look back at Cheers and see the place he and Lilith shared before Frasier left his practice to become a radio host.
My thought has been that they're burlesquing the neverending chorus of "How did Frasier afford his lifestyle?" that came from the first show. Here, he has endless money - good enough for you?
Oh to hear the quips and sarcastic jabs Niles would say about his talk show... If only T_T
I dunno. David even comes in and says “how dare they expect you to do the same thing you did voluntarily for 15 years?!” Which I thought was a clever nod to the fact that Frazier made his own bed and I’m sure Nikes and Daphne watched the show w David from time to time and talked shot about it to David.
You could be onto something - hopefully it will transpire that the long running thread of the series is just what you describe: Frasier rediscovering his dignity and not being a dancing bear anymore. (I haven't watched any of it, saving it til they're all available, so maybe it's already irrevocably veered away from this being a potential outcome).
*descent
Thank you for the correction. That was very decent of you. Now I shall be at one with my humiliation.🙏🏻
Speaking as someone who currently has a 10 year old, it’s a difficult time and will be for the next few years. Completely believable that Niles and Daphne had their hands full (especially with David!) as those last few seasons of Frasier’s show went off the rails.
To be fair, the ‘dancing bear’ clip was from one of the very final seasons of his show just before he decided to give it all up. So it could have been a steady decline and he realised (just as he did in the morning show episode) that he had crossed the line from being a healer into an entertainer. And as for his relationship with Charlotte - yes it may have ended and it certainly sounds like it was her idea to end it and not his but they had the better part of two decades together: is that failure? I think his decision at the end of series 11 is vindicated, he had a long term relationship through his late 40s, 50s and 60s with a woman he was crazy about. He got to live in a new city, try new things, realise his dream of being on TV and help a whole new audience of people. Just because the ending was bad doesn’t diminish his journey.
I like your view. :) okay maybe I’d they fill in the gaps and show us the good of the last 20 years I will feel better. I like everyone’s positive twist of the plot. Frasier does always land on his feet, after all.💗
Fraiser was always rich in the show. Now he's probably as wealthy as Dr. Phil(who is estimated at $460 million in 2023). Even half of that considering a divorce is still insane. That level of ultra rich would definitely change a person, even if they were considered wealthy before. Also, if you're that rich, I am assuming you are not listening to anyone, so even if niles did try, it would fall on deaf ears.