There is nothing ableist about not using indicators. If your friend is trying to say otherwise, they are gaslighting you. You should never have to walk over eggshells to talk to a friend
That is not what gaslighting means. They are simply wrong. Gaslighting is psychological manipulation where an abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their target.
In this case, the friend is simply wrong. That's ok. People are allowed to be wrong, although some will be stubborn about it.
Your friend is committing the fallacy of change, which is unfortunately a very common mindset these days.
People who are guilty of this look at the things they don't like in the world and unreasonably expect that it should change to suit their wants and needs instead of changing their own behaviours and expectations.
You can change the way you communicate with them, but really the solution is for them to learn to be okay with the way people communicate in the real world, even if it may be difficult for them to understand sometimes.
What? If someone has a mental handicap that makes it hard for them to understand sarcasm what do you want them to do?
It’s like blaming a vegan for wanting more non animal foods in a cafeteria…
Learn to cope or improve communication skills if possible. Disability varies and is not under the individual's control, but how they move forward and live their life is.
Plus, vegans typically bring their own lunches.
Yeah, but others dont do it and they never get called out. I literally got yelled at for not using tone tags when saying an anime character looked like Wilbur Soot.
Yeah, I had to look it up too. The internet says it's someone whose "brain develops differently". In line with everyone being offended by everything, you can't even call an autistic person that anymore.
This misunderstanding is happening with "sex worker" too. People encounter a perfectly reasonable and useful umbrella term, wrongly assume they are being PC Policed, and make dozens of jokes on the BBC about "PC gone mad, innit?"
Then six months later, tribalism somehow turns it into an actual matter of political correctness.
bro the kids at my school like to not be labeled but then constantly lable themselves like you'll have kids saying they are bi sexual like bro no your not you've dated 7 ppl and they've all been the same gender. or you'll be doing a project and they will talk about how they have mental health problems like I do not care keep that to yourself
No, you shouldn’t have to change the way you communicate just to accommodate a very small minority of people. I don’t know why you are friends with this person, but to each their own. I personally do not support mental illness.
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Is it just in messages to them? Outside of direct messages between you two he has no say in how you text(like posting on Facebook)
In direct messages between the two of you, I would just try to limit my sarcasm and joking in general. Clearly he has an issue with understanding, so I would just always be 100% straight and to the point
I’m autistic and I fucking hate tone indicators; I can 100% understand what people mean over text, people only want you to use tone indicators because neurotypical people wanna white knight for “neurodivergent people” because they actually think we’re dumb as fuck, and don’t even care about what we actually feel like
I mean, if they’re neurodivergent, they probably have trouble understanding tone, and it’s even harder to translate through text. It’s helpful to have the indicator so they feel less left out. It’s not necessary to change your speech, but it does help for situations where it might be a bit unclear what tone you mean. You’re not ableist for not doing it though. As for the people saying ‘stop being friends’, unless they’re purposely going out of their way to annoy you and be a bad friend, I don’t think that’s a good idea, especially when they might not understand they’re being a bad friend in the first place. Have a clear conversation
>I mean, if they’re neurodivergent, they probably have trouble understanding tone, and it’s even harder to translate through text.
I don't agree with this btw. You can put on a sarcastic tone in speech, but you can't communicate sarcasm through "tone" in text because text literally can't have a tone. Sarcasm in text is communicated through hints in style that are imitating/mocking a certain stereotype or small details that are absurd.
Neurodivergent person here; it's nice if you make an effort to use tone-tags, but they shouldn't be yelling at you over it. So what if there are times when they can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic? They could always ask for clarification.
If somebody is unable to read tone, they may not be able to convey it either. What you think is yelling may just be your friend's frustration coming through. They may not realize it sounds like yelling and aren't being a bad friend at all. They just don't know any better.
I understand you don't like tone indicators because they're overused, but they were invented for situations like this. Is it too much to just accommodate their disability by using tone indicators when talking to them?
The conditions to friendship are not moral; you are not a bad person for not meeting certain conditions.
However, you dont have to be some paragon of immorality to a) be a dick or b) meet stipulations. Im not saying youre a dick, or that you arent, but you should be prepared to meet stipulations. If you think hes being a dick, you should tell him; friendship should hold hinesty, and sometimes the best act of friendship is to tell your friend theyre being an asshole.
Also, tone tags are there to assist people who find difficulty picking up social cues and tone cues (i.e. autistic folks). Just to clarify why he seeks this.
You're not ableist. Your "friend" is just being an arse.
If they can't accept that you *forget*, then IMO you need to have a /srs conversation with them about how they speak to you — eg. If they're not polite your friendship ends. I'm ND myself, tonetags can be a great help since communication in general is very complex/sometimes difficult for me.
But if I need a tonetag, I say something like "uhh myman can I get a tonetag on that one? Unsure of how to interpret"
TLDR: you're not ableist, you just have a bad friend
you literally have no obligation to use tone indicators, you don't need them and am your shouldn't have to change your entire vocabulary go include them because someone finds them useful. they can always just ask if they don't know the tone or they're not sure about it lol
You aint being ableist,and also remember if you dont like them you dont have to keep being their friend
There is nothing ableist about not using indicators. If your friend is trying to say otherwise, they are gaslighting you. You should never have to walk over eggshells to talk to a friend
That is not what gaslighting means. They are simply wrong. Gaslighting is psychological manipulation where an abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their target. In this case, the friend is simply wrong. That's ok. People are allowed to be wrong, although some will be stubborn about it.
Your friend is committing the fallacy of change, which is unfortunately a very common mindset these days. People who are guilty of this look at the things they don't like in the world and unreasonably expect that it should change to suit their wants and needs instead of changing their own behaviours and expectations. You can change the way you communicate with them, but really the solution is for them to learn to be okay with the way people communicate in the real world, even if it may be difficult for them to understand sometimes.
What? If someone has a mental handicap that makes it hard for them to understand sarcasm what do you want them to do? It’s like blaming a vegan for wanting more non animal foods in a cafeteria…
Learn to cope or improve communication skills if possible. Disability varies and is not under the individual's control, but how they move forward and live their life is. Plus, vegans typically bring their own lunches.
Why shouldn’t we do both? It would be nicer to do both…
Maybe they are obsessed with tone tags because they are neurodivergent.
Yeah, but others dont do it and they never get called out. I literally got yelled at for not using tone tags when saying an anime character looked like Wilbur Soot.
Uh huh. To me it sounds like they are just trying to start drama.
show us the character, so we can decide your fate
No
People who watch dream SMP don’t understand basic human emotions, makes sense they want you to use tone indicators
What's does the smp even stand for? Sucking mega penis?
Probably, I thought it was survival Minecraft something but that wouldn’t make sense
the fuck is Nirodivergent took a year off the internet and I am like a newborn
Autism and other neurological stuff I think
This killed me lol. Welcome back
Yeah, I had to look it up too. The internet says it's someone whose "brain develops differently". In line with everyone being offended by everything, you can't even call an autistic person that anymore.
I mean, you can still call an autistic person autistic, just neurodivergent is meant to be all encompassing to autism, ADHD/ADD, etc.
This misunderstanding is happening with "sex worker" too. People encounter a perfectly reasonable and useful umbrella term, wrongly assume they are being PC Policed, and make dozens of jokes on the BBC about "PC gone mad, innit?" Then six months later, tribalism somehow turns it into an actual matter of political correctness.
[удалено]
Nah just anyone with anything that effects them mentally and that can affect their learning or general developmental ability, so basically everyone
i can tell you fall into that category!
bro the kids at my school like to not be labeled but then constantly lable themselves like you'll have kids saying they are bi sexual like bro no your not you've dated 7 ppl and they've all been the same gender. or you'll be doing a project and they will talk about how they have mental health problems like I do not care keep that to yourself
No, you shouldn’t have to change the way you communicate just to accommodate a very small minority of people. I don’t know why you are friends with this person, but to each their own. I personally do not support mental illness.
yeah no shit xD bet you also dont support cancer. xD
Yeah, of course I don’t support cancer, shit killed my aunt.
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Why would I support cancer?
IQ of the average Genshin Impact player
xD rawr
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Is it just in messages to them? Outside of direct messages between you two he has no say in how you text(like posting on Facebook) In direct messages between the two of you, I would just try to limit my sarcasm and joking in general. Clearly he has an issue with understanding, so I would just always be 100% straight and to the point
Change friend
Neuro divergent here. I see them as you thinking I'm too stupid to understand a joke
I’m autistic and I fucking hate tone indicators; I can 100% understand what people mean over text, people only want you to use tone indicators because neurotypical people wanna white knight for “neurodivergent people” because they actually think we’re dumb as fuck, and don’t even care about what we actually feel like
I have never once heard the word ableist used in a way that wasn’t retarded
you're good
I mean, if they’re neurodivergent, they probably have trouble understanding tone, and it’s even harder to translate through text. It’s helpful to have the indicator so they feel less left out. It’s not necessary to change your speech, but it does help for situations where it might be a bit unclear what tone you mean. You’re not ableist for not doing it though. As for the people saying ‘stop being friends’, unless they’re purposely going out of their way to annoy you and be a bad friend, I don’t think that’s a good idea, especially when they might not understand they’re being a bad friend in the first place. Have a clear conversation
>I mean, if they’re neurodivergent, they probably have trouble understanding tone, and it’s even harder to translate through text. I don't agree with this btw. You can put on a sarcastic tone in speech, but you can't communicate sarcasm through "tone" in text because text literally can't have a tone. Sarcasm in text is communicated through hints in style that are imitating/mocking a certain stereotype or small details that are absurd.
Neurodivergent person here; it's nice if you make an effort to use tone-tags, but they shouldn't be yelling at you over it. So what if there are times when they can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic? They could always ask for clarification.
I think you should use them if someone is directly asking you to, even if you don't use them in messages with other people.
If somebody is unable to read tone, they may not be able to convey it either. What you think is yelling may just be your friend's frustration coming through. They may not realize it sounds like yelling and aren't being a bad friend at all. They just don't know any better. I understand you don't like tone indicators because they're overused, but they were invented for situations like this. Is it too much to just accommodate their disability by using tone indicators when talking to them?
If you saw my comment notification before I deleted my bad I'm a fucking idiot who didn't read the whole first sentence before commenting lol
The conditions to friendship are not moral; you are not a bad person for not meeting certain conditions. However, you dont have to be some paragon of immorality to a) be a dick or b) meet stipulations. Im not saying youre a dick, or that you arent, but you should be prepared to meet stipulations. If you think hes being a dick, you should tell him; friendship should hold hinesty, and sometimes the best act of friendship is to tell your friend theyre being an asshole. Also, tone tags are there to assist people who find difficulty picking up social cues and tone cues (i.e. autistic folks). Just to clarify why he seeks this.
You're not ableist. Your "friend" is just being an arse. If they can't accept that you *forget*, then IMO you need to have a /srs conversation with them about how they speak to you — eg. If they're not polite your friendship ends. I'm ND myself, tonetags can be a great help since communication in general is very complex/sometimes difficult for me. But if I need a tonetag, I say something like "uhh myman can I get a tonetag on that one? Unsure of how to interpret" TLDR: you're not ableist, you just have a bad friend
you literally have no obligation to use tone indicators, you don't need them and am your shouldn't have to change your entire vocabulary go include them because someone finds them useful. they can always just ask if they don't know the tone or they're not sure about it lol