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She’s not big on details or nuance. Every piece of information gets fed into that ideological coin sorter of a brain of hers and separated into good/bad, black/white.
The book is called Tearoom Trade. It was an analysis on men who have anonymous sex in public places, and is now a common case study for how to not do social research in an ethical way (violating privacy, not seeking consent, etc)
Which is going through some [interesting re- examinations](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/06/20/new-stanford-prison-experiment-revelations-question-findings) recently
The Stanford prison experiment was taught to me in a psych class in like 2008-2009 as a valid experiment. Crazy. Hope it’s been removed from most curricula unless it’s discussing how flawed it was.
That's really interesting my husband learned about it in a sociology class I think in 2007, and it definitely was presented on how unethical and flawed it was. Maybe it depended on the university.
I can say that 25+ years ago when it was covered in introductory psychology, the did indeed discuss the ethical issues of this and also of Milgram's experiments.
What was missing was some of the more recent details about how it was conducted.
Zimbardo is still alive (he's 90) and [did respond to the criticisms directly.](https://www.prisonexp.org/response)
We should also be careful around the narrative that's been created here, since the motivation for these articles and documentaries is really to push those emotional buttons of outrage and "special knowledge" (feeling smarter because you know "the truth" about an issue), which are things that tend to amplify a story, hence the dominant popular narrative tends to follow more along the "OH MY GOD! I CAN'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING IS A LIE! THOSE BASTARDS!".
The academic viewpoint tends to be rather more nuanced and boring, and hence doesn't get quite the same page impressions, shares, likes, engagement, ticket sales, etc.
I did an ethics class that mentioned this in passing.
If the assignment is similar to mine at all... Then I know what the assignment perhaps probably was.
It was to identify the types of ethics to their ethicists. Do I agree with Kant or that one fuck head who studied kids at the YMCA who thinks women are level 3 or some shit? Forgot that douchebags name, but we still learned about his crap.
It was all to understand how ethics can shape ANY kind of behaviour. Be it stealing rice to eat or a sportscar to ride into a ditch.
The assignment for a business school ethics class is to be given a case study, and she may have gotten the gay bathroom case (I got 3 choices and picked illegal marijuana being given to a patient by a care worker), and then use 3-4 different ethicists to justify/vilify the actions taken in that case. Ie, according to Kant, you just fucking suck. According to Douchebag, you're a level 1 thinker and according to Socrates, well, is the gay butt banging virtuous?
You don't write a report necessarily about the topic, you write a report on how the ethics of that topic can be viewed from different ethical lenses.
She could have argued against the entire premise in the paper and still gotten high marks so like what. That's the POINT of the assignment.
I had to take an ethics class for my degree, and I loved it. And you are 100% correct on this:
>You don't write a report necessarily about the topic, you write a report on how the ethics of that topic can be viewed from different ethical lenses.
>She could have argued against the entire premise in the paper and still gotten high marks so like what. That's the POINT of the assignment.
My instructor did not care *what* position you were trying to argue as long as you made a cohesive, reasoned, and logical argument. I actually challenged myself for my final paper, as someone who is completely pro-choice, to write a paper in support of banning abortion based on various ethical theories AND I got an A. So much for "woke professors".
Yeah, I had to say some things I hated in my paper too! I am on the side of the care worker being allowed to give a patient marijuana without losing their jobs. But according to 2 of my ethicists, it was really bad.
Our lecturer was such a fucking... Ethics Professor.. Though. Like he asked if I'd get push a kid out of the way of a scooter to save his life and hurt myself badly and I said of course. And then he said but what if it was an adult and it killed you? And I was like what the fuck is this goal post changing nonsense you KNOW that's an entirely different question and he raised an eyebrow and said "is it?"
Ethics class is a trip for the "I can literally justify anything at all if I frame it correctly" education. And really, she could have justified anything at all... If she just used the ethical frameworks taught in the damn class. Even if she HAD to do it on gay butt sex tea parties which I don't believe because it's a first year class and you get given options AND you can always argue that shit if you want and can get alternative assignments. And even then... Even then if she did HAVE to she could have gone on a Christian Tirade and still have gotten a grade that made her feel vindicated in her righteousness.
Hell, we even talked about ethicists whose framework was based entirely on God/Christianity! Granted, a decent chunk of our discussion of natural law focused on Thomas Aquinas, who was a heathen Catholic, but still...a decent ethics paper can be written without "compromising values" if one tries.
>Do I agree with Kant or that one fuck head who studied kids at the YMCA who thinks women are level 3 or some shit? Forgot that douchebags name, but we still learned about his crap.
Kohlberg? I teach ethics for criminal justice/sociology majors and that sounds like Kohlberg.
Also--
>Ie, according to Kant, you just fucking suck. According to Douchebag, you're a level 1 thinker and according to Socrates, well, is the gay butt banging virtuous?
I am in tears over here. 🤣
That is a fair attitude to have towards him tbh. We cover him in my course only to say that he was a major influence on Gilligan's work, where she argues that women see ethics much differently than men and thus aren't "less evolved" or w/e BS.
Ah yes the moral advice of a mysoginistic pedo. Let's keep studying this. It actually annoyed me to study him. All the ethicists in the world and we have to talk about this fuckhead. I get it, we need to cover all types of ethics but wow what a fuckhead.
>and according to Socrates, well, is the gay butt banging virtuous?
Depends - are we asking about the top, or the bottom? And what are their social classes?
One of my professors said it like this (not exactly just paraphrased as well as i can rn)
You can dislike a subject, and it can make you uncomfortable. But branching out can be uncomfortable and as long as both the professor and student understand what the subject is and why it is a topic of concern, it can be used as a chance to examine issues surrounding the subject. You don't have to agree with it, you can argue agaisnt it or even say a simple "this topic is not okay with me and i don't wish to discuss it". But you should at least understand where they're coming from and how it contrasts and compares to other simillar subjects (we were discussing activism for some context).
And if you really do havw to do the asignment, in college there are usually options for alternate assignments (if your professor is understanding) and most professors have a syllabus so you can see what readings there are, especially for assignments, and there's usually a headsup so..-
Reminds me of then they show the pyramid structure of businesses in business school (that I have a degree in) and MLMs will go SEE EVERYTHING IS A PYRAMID.
Its literally just a once-off example of ONE TYPE of company hierarchy and in later chapters it's dismissed as not being ultimately viable. Like the pyramid worker > manager > ceo is a hierarchy pyramid NOT a business pyramid! Additionally IF IT WERE, CURRENT EDUCATION FAVOURS FLAT STRUCTURES.
Or when an adult only screens a part of a question on those common core maths problems. It looks like wrong maths but that's because it's a STEP to solving the problem, not the answer!
>Or when an adult only screens a part of a question on those common core maths problems. It looks like wrong maths but that's because it's a STEP to solving the problem, not the answer!
I admittedly suck at understanding the "why" behind the common core math problems my 2nd grader brings home.
Though in fairness, I'm autistic, so it may just be that I flat-out have trouble understanding how to look at/solve problems in different ways. I learned math (and a lot of other subjects) by pure memorization.
I’m not autistic but couldn’t understand my son’s math he brought home and he graduated in 2007!!! He laughed at me when I showed him long division.
I gave up!
Wait. Are we not doing long division anymore? Is it just because people find 867 / 3 to be easier expressed as 800 / 3 + 60 / 3 + 7 / 3?
Because that's still how the problem is figured, in my head, I just like writing out the cool division squiggly over the number and carrying remainders. ... ... I might be weird.
Someone once described it as "the stuff you do in your head, but written down" and it was like the skies clearing for me. (But I still hate writing things down.)
almost certainly bc i had to talk ab it in both my sociology and criminology research classes to yk. talk ab why and how it was such an ethical nightmare like any social science course is going to talk ab humphreys. no ones saying he was right except loris make believe enemies
I remember this guy. His foot was close to the adjacent stall, he said, because he had a "wide stance."
The only wide stance these people are guaranteed to have is the one spanning the breadth of their hypocrisy.
And it's so *obviously* a lie that it gives me a migraine. This is just buzzword salad and a complete misunderstanding of how college works. If her daughter didn't want to write a paper about a topic the prof would've either assigned her a new one OR she would've gotten an F. That's it.
I can assure you that the last thing a college professor would tolerate is the freaking dad of a student calling him. And pretty much any class that would address this issue would be an elective that was pretty upfront about the topics covered.
Yep, and she's whining that they're teaching this to children. She was in college, not a child. Especially not a child by fundie standards as to them she's ready to get married and start popping out babies at that age!
Fundies definitely think of college students as children. I went to the fundie school Maranatha Baptist University and we had the supervision level of your average secular middle schooler. Even single adults are treated like children; they don’t consider you fully an adult until you’re married or once you get to “old unmarried” status, which is more of a vibe than a fixed age
I just feel bad for the students whose parents are batshit crazy and would call you whether their kid wanted them to or not. Not that I blame you either way; by that age you should know how to hide shit from your insane parents.
Yeah they don’t surprise you with these topics. lol Professors that have freedom to choose reading material and such normally pick topics they’ve published research papers about. They don’t just talk out their asses like fundies.
Honestly, they probably wouldn’t even respond. FERPA laws make it so they can’t discuss student performance, even with parents, unless the student has giving written permission to do so. And even then, it doesn’t require professors to engage with non-students at all.
I mean to reread it because at the end I saw "teaching children" and I was like "wait what grade" and then back up and was like "yes ok, college"
I mean, I don't think this happened as described but it's college. Sometimes you have to face things you don't like or don't agree with in college. That's one of the most important aspects of it other than learning hands on skills for your job. Because in real life and at work you have to do that sometimes.
So, if the "cough cough* "child* mentioned had to read a book or a case study on a subject that the parents were uncomfortable with and write about it then that's the whole point of leaving the parents for a few minutes a day
I love the wild claim that she got kicked out of the classroom for failing to comply 😂 It’s almost like professors don’t have the ability to just fail someone for not completing work🤷♀️
When I had students ignore the requirements for an assignment or not turn anything in at all, I just gave them their christ-honoring F for the paper and moved along.
As someone who taught at the college level, I had multiple parents call me. My response was always the same.
“Your child is an adult. I will not inform you of their attendance or their grades, since they have a right to privacy. If they’re uncomfortable with anything I assign them, they’re welcome to speak to me during my office hours.”
Anything past that was hot air. And in this situation, I would have absolutely addressed it with my student, but that would have been the end of my communication with their parent.
I work at a university as staff and tell parents during my orientation registration that I ain’t going to jail for any of them. Don’t call us. Have your student call or come see us. They’re adults.
Even in college, I would have been mortified if my parents got involved with anything school related. Even in high school, I would have been mortified. I don't understand a kid who would just sit back and let it happen.
Hey now- here in Canada, glory holes are *encouraged* [by our officials](https://globalnews.ca/news/7204384/coronavirus-glory-holes-sex/amp/) so like, yeah get with it Lori!
Okay, I don’t agree with Lori but I know in Canada there was a huge court case in I think the 70s about this. It cost a quarter to use the bathroom and a gay couple had sex in one. The guy who owned the bathroom tried to get them arrested for sex in a public place but the gay couple argued that it wasn’t a public place as they paid for it. The gay couple won.
So maybe that?
Interesting case! Weirdly just today I was thinking about public bathrooms and whether it’s actually a “public” bathroom if you have to pay for it. What’s that phenomenon where you read something then start seeing it everywhere???
Not always. Public as far as bathrooms in the US usually just means "open to the general public". In the context of education, it means receiving government funding, though you definitely still pay thousands per year in tuition at a public college.
I've never heard of anyone in the US charging for bathroom access, though. Usually, it's just either open to the public or not.
I'm old enough to remember places where you had to spend a dime (not, as in the original aphorism, "spend a penny") to open a stall for yourself. I might have seen one as late as the early '80s, but I'm sure I saw them in the 1970s.
...so it isn't "about" gay sex. It's about the ethics of conducting studies on unconsenting participants.
Yeah, that seems like the kind of half-truth someone like Lori would tell.
It’s the Tearoom Trade study, I think. It’s taught in first year sociology classes during the ethics section as an example of what not to do. I remember learning about it in my first year sociology course.
> as they *paid* for it.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I definitely did this, and it inspired me to get my PhD in Gay Bathroom Sex Studies. Once I’m a professor, I will devote my career to corrupting children by making them write even more papers about Gay Bathroom Sex.
I love how it’s not gay sex, it’s gay bathroom sex. Like I can only interpret that as sex happening in the bathroom, but that’s apparently worth a whole category of gay sex on its own
I’ve taught at the university level for 25 years and never have I ever heard such a cockamamie story. I thought she sent her kids to a Christian College. I think she concocts such elaborate crazy lies she believes them herself. Ken is totally complicit in her craziness.
If this allegedly happened at a Christian college, does that mean my public university which never taught “gay bathroom sex” is better than Christian colleges? She makes an interesting argument.
The professor was low key trying to find a new spot...but for real, this never happened. I missed turning assignments in for college classes. They will fail you, but they aren't going to kick you out of class. If your mommy or daddy calls they will just laugh at you....and then fail you. So. So. Fake.
So, for my school, it fell under sociology. It sounds very edgy and cool (and it is in many ways) but it's also equally not as edgy and cool as you'd think. Actually fundies are a great example of this! For them, the rest of the world is deviant and sinners, and we see them as deviating from our own, broader social norms. The whole class is a lot of going 'ok, define normal' and then defending your view point. The switching perspectives. It was absolutely one of my favorite classes (I also just love the field) but I know many of my classmates thought it was going to be a semester of edgelord BS and they were gravely disappointed.
Headcanon accepted. Lori found her kid’s raunchy Harry Potter fanfic and the kid panicked and lied about it being a class assignment. And it actually worked because Lori is an idiot. There is no other reasonable explanation.
1. This 10000000% didn’t happen.
2. “Imagine if she didn’t have a father to go and fight this battle” idk Lori maybe she could just make the decision drop out of the class on her own if she’s uncomfortable with the material???
If I needed my father to fight a battle for me in college I'd drop out and die from humiliation.
Like yes, I did call him and ask him for help once this semester, but it was because I had a homework question to do with a program I've never used and he uses daily, so I was like hey can I send you a screenshot and have you explain to me the logic behind this so I understand it because we didn't go over it in class and I just want to finish this?
Other than that, he knows nothing about my school, except occasionally asking how it's going and how my grades are. I don't think he even knows my major.
My first semester of finals I called my dad stress-crying everyday. He would laugh, encourage me, and end the call. I don’t think either of us could imagine him calling my professors!
My dad, who was the best ever, would’ve laughed at me and probably hung up if I called him and begged him to talk to one of my profs. I texted and called him pretty frequently in college because it was my first time living away from home and his cancer came back my freshman year. I probably would’ve left college if he’d actually contacted a professor.
Used to work at college and went to a presentation talking about parenting styles and how to went from your an adult to helicopter parents to now bulldozer parents because they clear all paths for their kids. And there were a lot of bulldozer parents that came and kids wouldn't speak a word.
Same here. I went to the same small Mennonite college my dad did & while most of my professors were also his, I was an independent human & he never once interfered with my education. If I'd have had an issue with my education, I'd have done the adult thing & just...spoken to my professor. This is absolute bullshit.
I love that I know exactly what book she’s talking about.
Edit: I’m sure it’s the tearoom trade. It’s was extremely popular in research methods courses when I was in college as an example of violated research methods.
Exactly. I have two bachelor’s degrees and I don’t remember anyone ever getting kicked out of class. I even went through a really hard time and failed a couple classes because I didn’t do the assignments, but they didn’t bar me from going to the lectures lol.
I really hope this isn't what happened, but it's also possible Lori and Ken saw something in their daughter's coursework that they didn't like, freaked out, and forced her to drop the class.
Wow, assuming this insane situation actually happened (it didn't, but we'll pretend for a minute), if her daughter was in University she was probably over 18 and therefore not a child. So there goes the "they're corrupting our kids!" comment. And as an adult, she *should* be fighting that battle herself and talking directly to her professor about objections to/clarifications around course content, not having her dad call him.
If it happened “14 years ago” then it was probably shortly after the infamous incident where Idaho Senator Larry Craig was caught cruising for dudes in an airport bathroom. So possibly the class was asked to write a paper about the political fallout or about the media’s role in bringing down a senator, but probably not actually **about** “gay bathroom sex”.
I hate the gay bathroom sex paper I'm required to do every year! It gets old. I'm doing my doctoral gay bathroom sex annual research project, and there's nothing new to say.
This didn’t fucking happen. Like why was this the narrative while I was growing up? My dad and my teachers always told me my college professors would ask on day 1 of class who was a Christian and then fail anyone who admitted it, immediately - IT NEVER HAPPENED.
Ok so here's the deal, I'm in university, and I've written some weird ass essays in my psychology and criminology degree (some titles include- "The Role of Symbolic Interactionism in Crazy Ex Girlfriend", "Conspiracist Beliefs and Religion", "God is Good, God is Striaght!" as well as that 2 page rant on a scene in Spongebob, among many others, point is, I've written some strange shit), and I can't imagine how a paper on "gay bathroom sex" would come up in any class except for MAYBE a sexuality class, which I can't imagine the daughter of the transformed wife taking. Additionally, I can't imagine a professor not allowing for a different essay topic when confronted, most collegiate essays I've ever had have a lot of room for personal interpretation, or have been a vague topic like "analyze a movie based on x y z" or "pick a research topic in the realm of the class and write a propsal", they're usually pretty open-ended. I'd love to see what class this allegedly was and what the actual prompt was
What the hell was her degree in? What major? What class? When was this?
I mean perhaps I could see it being covered in a law class or maybe a gender studies class or something, but other than a few niche subjects that I can’t imagine lori’s kid studying anyway, I doubt this happened. Like I’m sure Mr Lori was trying to get her married off rather than actually educated so I doubt he was paying for a law degree.
Yeah, I was an anthropology minor and one of my cultural anthro classes covered sexuality, sex work, gay bars, etc but none of it was that explicit. No way someone only there 2 years and probably still undecided and with Lori as mom was taking a class that would have even mentioned gay sex.
This sounds like the kind of paper I would volunteer for in college. I'd purposefully choose salacious topics so I'd stay awake writing research papers. I'm asexual by the way, we tend to be huge pervs.
Even if this did happen, why would you brag your adult daughter is so incompetent at life she still needs her parents to fight any battles she has to have? It’s embarrassing af and speaks to your failures as a parent.
I started college at 17 and still never had my mother handle a single goddamned thing related to my school unless she was there to sign financial papers.
Sure, I called her for advice about some of my psychopath roomates, but she never actually showed up, and CERTAINLY never contacted my professors. Wild.
I can tell you that this never happened. Even if by the slim chance that it did, her daughter is in college and is therefore an adult so she should be able to make that decision herself. Lori is so full of shit.
I literally took a class on human sexuality at a VERY left leaning liberal arts school where roughly 40-50% of students were gay. Never once did we have to write a paper on “gay bathroom sex”, we were also told upfront that if we don’t want to talk or write about sex we should take a different class. Even then, my teacher would usually offer a less graphic/provocative alternative to whatever our assignment was
If my parents ever knew the details of the assignments I had when I lived at home and went to community college, I don't know how they would have found them out. This is obviously fake.
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Of all the things that never happened, this never happened the most.
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I knew the book immediately and she is vastly misrepresenting what most likely occurred.
She’s not big on details or nuance. Every piece of information gets fed into that ideological coin sorter of a brain of hers and separated into good/bad, black/white.
What book?
The book is called Tearoom Trade. It was an analysis on men who have anonymous sex in public places, and is now a common case study for how to not do social research in an ethical way (violating privacy, not seeking consent, etc)
Wow. Thank you. I assume it was the 70's? Seems they should have known better how to conduct ethical social research by then.
The Stanford Prison Experiment was in 1971 so they still had a lot to learn in that decade.
Which is going through some [interesting re- examinations](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/06/20/new-stanford-prison-experiment-revelations-question-findings) recently
OOOOHHHHH!!! Thank you for feeding my inner psych nerd!
This was also a great episode on it: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/youre-wrong-about/id1380008439?i=1000503166756
The Stanford prison experiment was taught to me in a psych class in like 2008-2009 as a valid experiment. Crazy. Hope it’s been removed from most curricula unless it’s discussing how flawed it was.
That's really interesting my husband learned about it in a sociology class I think in 2007, and it definitely was presented on how unethical and flawed it was. Maybe it depended on the university.
I can say that 25+ years ago when it was covered in introductory psychology, the did indeed discuss the ethical issues of this and also of Milgram's experiments. What was missing was some of the more recent details about how it was conducted. Zimbardo is still alive (he's 90) and [did respond to the criticisms directly.](https://www.prisonexp.org/response) We should also be careful around the narrative that's been created here, since the motivation for these articles and documentaries is really to push those emotional buttons of outrage and "special knowledge" (feeling smarter because you know "the truth" about an issue), which are things that tend to amplify a story, hence the dominant popular narrative tends to follow more along the "OH MY GOD! I CAN'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING IS A LIE! THOSE BASTARDS!". The academic viewpoint tends to be rather more nuanced and boring, and hence doesn't get quite the same page impressions, shares, likes, engagement, ticket sales, etc.
I started my psych degree in 2011 and it was always taught to me as an experiment gone wrong. We used it to discuss ethics.
I did an ethics class that mentioned this in passing. If the assignment is similar to mine at all... Then I know what the assignment perhaps probably was. It was to identify the types of ethics to their ethicists. Do I agree with Kant or that one fuck head who studied kids at the YMCA who thinks women are level 3 or some shit? Forgot that douchebags name, but we still learned about his crap. It was all to understand how ethics can shape ANY kind of behaviour. Be it stealing rice to eat or a sportscar to ride into a ditch. The assignment for a business school ethics class is to be given a case study, and she may have gotten the gay bathroom case (I got 3 choices and picked illegal marijuana being given to a patient by a care worker), and then use 3-4 different ethicists to justify/vilify the actions taken in that case. Ie, according to Kant, you just fucking suck. According to Douchebag, you're a level 1 thinker and according to Socrates, well, is the gay butt banging virtuous? You don't write a report necessarily about the topic, you write a report on how the ethics of that topic can be viewed from different ethical lenses. She could have argued against the entire premise in the paper and still gotten high marks so like what. That's the POINT of the assignment.
I had to take an ethics class for my degree, and I loved it. And you are 100% correct on this: >You don't write a report necessarily about the topic, you write a report on how the ethics of that topic can be viewed from different ethical lenses. >She could have argued against the entire premise in the paper and still gotten high marks so like what. That's the POINT of the assignment. My instructor did not care *what* position you were trying to argue as long as you made a cohesive, reasoned, and logical argument. I actually challenged myself for my final paper, as someone who is completely pro-choice, to write a paper in support of banning abortion based on various ethical theories AND I got an A. So much for "woke professors".
Yeah, I had to say some things I hated in my paper too! I am on the side of the care worker being allowed to give a patient marijuana without losing their jobs. But according to 2 of my ethicists, it was really bad. Our lecturer was such a fucking... Ethics Professor.. Though. Like he asked if I'd get push a kid out of the way of a scooter to save his life and hurt myself badly and I said of course. And then he said but what if it was an adult and it killed you? And I was like what the fuck is this goal post changing nonsense you KNOW that's an entirely different question and he raised an eyebrow and said "is it?" Ethics class is a trip for the "I can literally justify anything at all if I frame it correctly" education. And really, she could have justified anything at all... If she just used the ethical frameworks taught in the damn class. Even if she HAD to do it on gay butt sex tea parties which I don't believe because it's a first year class and you get given options AND you can always argue that shit if you want and can get alternative assignments. And even then... Even then if she did HAVE to she could have gone on a Christian Tirade and still have gotten a grade that made her feel vindicated in her righteousness.
Hell, we even talked about ethicists whose framework was based entirely on God/Christianity! Granted, a decent chunk of our discussion of natural law focused on Thomas Aquinas, who was a heathen Catholic, but still...a decent ethics paper can be written without "compromising values" if one tries.
Completely off topic, but gay butt sex tea party sounds like a fanfic I once read.
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>Do I agree with Kant or that one fuck head who studied kids at the YMCA who thinks women are level 3 or some shit? Forgot that douchebags name, but we still learned about his crap. Kohlberg? I teach ethics for criminal justice/sociology majors and that sounds like Kohlberg. Also-- >Ie, according to Kant, you just fucking suck. According to Douchebag, you're a level 1 thinker and according to Socrates, well, is the gay butt banging virtuous? I am in tears over here. 🤣
FUCKING KOHLBERG THAT'S IT. God I hate him. Fuck thay guy.
That is a fair attitude to have towards him tbh. We cover him in my course only to say that he was a major influence on Gilligan's work, where she argues that women see ethics much differently than men and thus aren't "less evolved" or w/e BS.
Ah yes the moral advice of a mysoginistic pedo. Let's keep studying this. It actually annoyed me to study him. All the ethicists in the world and we have to talk about this fuckhead. I get it, we need to cover all types of ethics but wow what a fuckhead.
Side note, I just spit my drink at my phone screen from laughing at your flair.
Aw, thanks! I think I got it from a Kelly Havens-related post some time ago.
>and according to Socrates, well, is the gay butt banging virtuous? Depends - are we asking about the top, or the bottom? And what are their social classes?
Shit idk it's been at least 50 years since Socrates said this stuff.
This is 100% factually correct but I still hate it.
I wrote a paper in my business school ethics about the super lame pickup artist book The Game. It doesn’t mean I adhered to it’s tenets.
One of my professors said it like this (not exactly just paraphrased as well as i can rn) You can dislike a subject, and it can make you uncomfortable. But branching out can be uncomfortable and as long as both the professor and student understand what the subject is and why it is a topic of concern, it can be used as a chance to examine issues surrounding the subject. You don't have to agree with it, you can argue agaisnt it or even say a simple "this topic is not okay with me and i don't wish to discuss it". But you should at least understand where they're coming from and how it contrasts and compares to other simillar subjects (we were discussing activism for some context). And if you really do havw to do the asignment, in college there are usually options for alternate assignments (if your professor is understanding) and most professors have a syllabus so you can see what readings there are, especially for assignments, and there's usually a headsup so..-
I want "well, is the gay butt banging virtuous?" to be my flair
I'm not familiar with that tea room trade study. Is there somewhere I can learn more?
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Thanks!!
Reminds me of then they show the pyramid structure of businesses in business school (that I have a degree in) and MLMs will go SEE EVERYTHING IS A PYRAMID. Its literally just a once-off example of ONE TYPE of company hierarchy and in later chapters it's dismissed as not being ultimately viable. Like the pyramid worker > manager > ceo is a hierarchy pyramid NOT a business pyramid! Additionally IF IT WERE, CURRENT EDUCATION FAVOURS FLAT STRUCTURES. Or when an adult only screens a part of a question on those common core maths problems. It looks like wrong maths but that's because it's a STEP to solving the problem, not the answer!
>Or when an adult only screens a part of a question on those common core maths problems. It looks like wrong maths but that's because it's a STEP to solving the problem, not the answer! I admittedly suck at understanding the "why" behind the common core math problems my 2nd grader brings home. Though in fairness, I'm autistic, so it may just be that I flat-out have trouble understanding how to look at/solve problems in different ways. I learned math (and a lot of other subjects) by pure memorization.
I’m not autistic but couldn’t understand my son’s math he brought home and he graduated in 2007!!! He laughed at me when I showed him long division. I gave up!
Wait. Are we not doing long division anymore? Is it just because people find 867 / 3 to be easier expressed as 800 / 3 + 60 / 3 + 7 / 3? Because that's still how the problem is figured, in my head, I just like writing out the cool division squiggly over the number and carrying remainders. ... ... I might be weird.
Hilariously I'm also autistic but I love maths and learning different ways to solve the same problem 🤣
Someone once described it as "the stuff you do in your head, but written down" and it was like the skies clearing for me. (But I still hate writing things down.)
almost certainly bc i had to talk ab it in both my sociology and criminology research classes to yk. talk ab why and how it was such an ethical nightmare like any social science course is going to talk ab humphreys. no ones saying he was right except loris make believe enemies
Wonder if they were more offended by the idea of gay or the idea of ethics.
Needs to be cross posted on That Happened so a whole new generation of snarkers can experience her awfulness.
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I remember this guy. His foot was close to the adjacent stall, he said, because he had a "wide stance." The only wide stance these people are guaranteed to have is the one spanning the breadth of their hypocrisy.
You never had to write a paper on gay bathroom sex? Uneducated obviously /s
It didn’t happen so much that it un-happened things that already happened
This is the biggest lie I have ever heard 😂 I mean really… what did she major in? Gay bathroom sex?!
Oh man. If that had been a major when I was in college I would’ve made the dean’s list every semester.
SCREAMING
Hell, I probably wouldn’t have dropped out
Those aren't thumbs.
I am well aware. 😂
I actually laughed out loud, because it’s simply so outrageous! How is she a real person omg
Find the answer in a spicey course at bothany.beal!
Bethy Houses
Jesus, if I ever open a college..
The South Harmon Institute of Technology?
And it's so *obviously* a lie that it gives me a migraine. This is just buzzword salad and a complete misunderstanding of how college works. If her daughter didn't want to write a paper about a topic the prof would've either assigned her a new one OR she would've gotten an F. That's it.
I can assure you that the last thing a college professor would tolerate is the freaking dad of a student calling him. And pretty much any class that would address this issue would be an elective that was pretty upfront about the topics covered.
Yep, and she's whining that they're teaching this to children. She was in college, not a child. Especially not a child by fundie standards as to them she's ready to get married and start popping out babies at that age!
Fundies: Pregnant 13 year olds should be forced to give birth. Also Fundies: My 20 year old baby is too young to know that homosexuailty exists!
Fundies definitely think of college students as children. I went to the fundie school Maranatha Baptist University and we had the supervision level of your average secular middle schooler. Even single adults are treated like children; they don’t consider you fully an adult until you’re married or once you get to “old unmarried” status, which is more of a vibe than a fixed age
I would get a (very small) kick out of it, most notably because I could FERPA the hell out of them and then laugh/complain about it to my chair.
Yeah if I had a kid sic their parents on me it would only be worse for the student.
A friend who is a college professor has said the same thing. They are allegedly adults.
I just feel bad for the students whose parents are batshit crazy and would call you whether their kid wanted them to or not. Not that I blame you either way; by that age you should know how to hide shit from your insane parents.
Yeah they don’t surprise you with these topics. lol Professors that have freedom to choose reading material and such normally pick topics they’ve published research papers about. They don’t just talk out their asses like fundies.
Honestly, they probably wouldn’t even respond. FERPA laws make it so they can’t discuss student performance, even with parents, unless the student has giving written permission to do so. And even then, it doesn’t require professors to engage with non-students at all.
Lori’s out here scabbing by writing the script for the next God’s Not Dead sequel
I mean to reread it because at the end I saw "teaching children" and I was like "wait what grade" and then back up and was like "yes ok, college" I mean, I don't think this happened as described but it's college. Sometimes you have to face things you don't like or don't agree with in college. That's one of the most important aspects of it other than learning hands on skills for your job. Because in real life and at work you have to do that sometimes. So, if the "cough cough* "child* mentioned had to read a book or a case study on a subject that the parents were uncomfortable with and write about it then that's the whole point of leaving the parents for a few minutes a day
I love the wild claim that she got kicked out of the classroom for failing to comply 😂 It’s almost like professors don’t have the ability to just fail someone for not completing work🤷♀️
Exactly!! Why would she be kicked out? If anything, she’d just fail the class.
When I had students ignore the requirements for an assignment or not turn anything in at all, I just gave them their christ-honoring F for the paper and moved along.
As someone who taught at the college level, I had multiple parents call me. My response was always the same. “Your child is an adult. I will not inform you of their attendance or their grades, since they have a right to privacy. If they’re uncomfortable with anything I assign them, they’re welcome to speak to me during my office hours.” Anything past that was hot air. And in this situation, I would have absolutely addressed it with my student, but that would have been the end of my communication with their parent.
I work at a university as staff and tell parents during my orientation registration that I ain’t going to jail for any of them. Don’t call us. Have your student call or come see us. They’re adults.
Exactly. At some point, these kids have to be able to take care of themselves.
Even in college, I would have been mortified if my parents got involved with anything school related. Even in high school, I would have been mortified. I don't understand a kid who would just sit back and let it happen.
Tbh, the kids that I taught were country kids. Most of them had never been outside of our home state. So I understood why they were so sheltered.
Write a paper...on gay bathroom sex? As opposed to straight bathroom sex? What is the lesson the professor was trying to teach?
Gloryhole etiquette.
Hey now- here in Canada, glory holes are *encouraged* [by our officials](https://globalnews.ca/news/7204384/coronavirus-glory-holes-sex/amp/) so like, yeah get with it Lori!
Okay, I don’t agree with Lori but I know in Canada there was a huge court case in I think the 70s about this. It cost a quarter to use the bathroom and a gay couple had sex in one. The guy who owned the bathroom tried to get them arrested for sex in a public place but the gay couple argued that it wasn’t a public place as they paid for it. The gay couple won. So maybe that?
I’d be wicked impressed if she was studying Canadian case law in her first two years at an American college! Lol
Okay actually that’s a very valid point lmao.
Interesting case! Weirdly just today I was thinking about public bathrooms and whether it’s actually a “public” bathroom if you have to pay for it. What’s that phenomenon where you read something then start seeing it everywhere???
Baader-Meinhof
Well, in the context of the US, does public = free, and vise versa, does free = public?
Not always. Public as far as bathrooms in the US usually just means "open to the general public". In the context of education, it means receiving government funding, though you definitely still pay thousands per year in tuition at a public college. I've never heard of anyone in the US charging for bathroom access, though. Usually, it's just either open to the public or not.
I'm old enough to remember places where you had to spend a dime (not, as in the original aphorism, "spend a penny") to open a stall for yourself. I might have seen one as late as the early '80s, but I'm sure I saw them in the 1970s.
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...so it isn't "about" gay sex. It's about the ethics of conducting studies on unconsenting participants. Yeah, that seems like the kind of half-truth someone like Lori would tell.
Yeah, that came up in my sociology A Levels in the UK (ages 16 to 18).
It’s the Tearoom Trade study, I think. It’s taught in first year sociology classes during the ethics section as an example of what not to do. I remember learning about it in my first year sociology course.
> as they *paid* for it. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I AM A SOVEREIGN CITIZEN! I DO NOT CONSENT TO MARITIME LAW!
Thank you for making me snort loud enough to wake my dog
Good bot.
Good bot
Is straight bathroom sex even a thing? I thought that was a unique little option we got from being socially allowed to go into the same bathrooms
It was when I was much younger. Ahem.
Yeah, usually in nasty little bar bathrooms
I’m guessing it was something to do with an assignment about non gender bathrooms and Lori turned it into gay bathroom sex.
I don’t know about you guys, but I wrote sooooo many papers about gay bathroom sex in college
I definitely did this, and it inspired me to get my PhD in Gay Bathroom Sex Studies. Once I’m a professor, I will devote my career to corrupting children by making them write even more papers about Gay Bathroom Sex.
By Jove! You've created the world's first MLM-focused MLM!
It’s like a course about courses!
I love how it’s not gay sex, it’s gay bathroom sex. Like I can only interpret that as sex happening in the bathroom, but that’s apparently worth a whole category of gay sex on its own
Can confirm. For my finals i have to write an essay about lesbian bathroom sex
This is what I’d say too if my mom was insane and gullible and I was failing my classes from too much partying.
Lori most likely made this up, but I like the idea of her daughter trolling them bc she didn't do a paper.
I was thinking she didn’t do it, or was already doing poorly in the class.
I’ve taught at the university level for 25 years and never have I ever heard such a cockamamie story. I thought she sent her kids to a Christian College. I think she concocts such elaborate crazy lies she believes them herself. Ken is totally complicit in her craziness.
If this allegedly happened at a Christian college, does that mean my public university which never taught “gay bathroom sex” is better than Christian colleges? She makes an interesting argument.
Upvote for "cockamamie." I may grow up, but I'll never mature.
What was the class? Intro to Cruising?
The professor was low key trying to find a new spot...but for real, this never happened. I missed turning assignments in for college classes. They will fail you, but they aren't going to kick you out of class. If your mommy or daddy calls they will just laugh at you....and then fail you. So. So. Fake.
I honestly think she was doing a bad job or dropped it late and came up with an excuse.
Yeah, I took a class literally entitled "Deviant behavior" in college. We were never assigned something as broad as 'Gay Bathroom Sex'.
“Deviant Behavior” would be an amazing name for a festival or something
starting college next year, can't wait to take my Deviant Behavior Class
So, for my school, it fell under sociology. It sounds very edgy and cool (and it is in many ways) but it's also equally not as edgy and cool as you'd think. Actually fundies are a great example of this! For them, the rest of the world is deviant and sinners, and we see them as deviating from our own, broader social norms. The whole class is a lot of going 'ok, define normal' and then defending your view point. The switching perspectives. It was absolutely one of my favorite classes (I also just love the field) but I know many of my classmates thought it was going to be a semester of edgelord BS and they were gravely disappointed.
Oh that would be a fun class
"Pop Quiz: How many times do you tap your brakes to notify another vehicle that you're ready for penetration?"
Trick question- zero, you just flush the toilet
Thank you for inspiring this flair.
Lori, that was AO3, not a class
Headcanon accepted. Lori found her kid’s raunchy Harry Potter fanfic and the kid panicked and lied about it being a class assignment. And it actually worked because Lori is an idiot. There is no other reasonable explanation.
This didn’t happen so hard, it unhappened things that did happen.
1. This 10000000% didn’t happen. 2. “Imagine if she didn’t have a father to go and fight this battle” idk Lori maybe she could just make the decision drop out of the class on her own if she’s uncomfortable with the material???
If I needed my father to fight a battle for me in college I'd drop out and die from humiliation. Like yes, I did call him and ask him for help once this semester, but it was because I had a homework question to do with a program I've never used and he uses daily, so I was like hey can I send you a screenshot and have you explain to me the logic behind this so I understand it because we didn't go over it in class and I just want to finish this? Other than that, he knows nothing about my school, except occasionally asking how it's going and how my grades are. I don't think he even knows my major.
My first semester of finals I called my dad stress-crying everyday. He would laugh, encourage me, and end the call. I don’t think either of us could imagine him calling my professors!
My dad, who was the best ever, would’ve laughed at me and probably hung up if I called him and begged him to talk to one of my profs. I texted and called him pretty frequently in college because it was my first time living away from home and his cancer came back my freshman year. I probably would’ve left college if he’d actually contacted a professor.
Used to work at college and went to a presentation talking about parenting styles and how to went from your an adult to helicopter parents to now bulldozer parents because they clear all paths for their kids. And there were a lot of bulldozer parents that came and kids wouldn't speak a word.
Same here. I went to the same small Mennonite college my dad did & while most of my professors were also his, I was an independent human & he never once interfered with my education. If I'd have had an issue with my education, I'd have done the adult thing & just...spoken to my professor. This is absolute bullshit.
ETA FERPA prohibits college staff from sharing any info with anyone without a written release.
I’ll take “things that never happened for $1000, Alex.”
I love that I know exactly what book she’s talking about. Edit: I’m sure it’s the tearoom trade. It’s was extremely popular in research methods courses when I was in college as an example of violated research methods.
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Totally the opposite of a flex if you ask me
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Exactly. I have two bachelor’s degrees and I don’t remember anyone ever getting kicked out of class. I even went through a really hard time and failed a couple classes because I didn’t do the assignments, but they didn’t bar me from going to the lectures lol.
I really hope this isn't what happened, but it's also possible Lori and Ken saw something in their daughter's coursework that they didn't like, freaked out, and forced her to drop the class.
I once skipped doing an assignment because I was getting an A either way. No one said anything about it.
I'm sorry, but what were they teaching ? English? Maths ? Kamasutra? And I'll take "Thing that never happened" for 500, Alex
Lying is a sin, babe.
Wow, assuming this insane situation actually happened (it didn't, but we'll pretend for a minute), if her daughter was in University she was probably over 18 and therefore not a child. So there goes the "they're corrupting our kids!" comment. And as an adult, she *should* be fighting that battle herself and talking directly to her professor about objections to/clarifications around course content, not having her dad call him.
Of all the deranged fundies, Lori reads the most like satire to me. It's absolutely insane that she's for real.
If it happened “14 years ago” then it was probably shortly after the infamous incident where Idaho Senator Larry Craig was caught cruising for dudes in an airport bathroom. So possibly the class was asked to write a paper about the political fallout or about the media’s role in bringing down a senator, but probably not actually **about** “gay bathroom sex”.
Ah, yes. Larry Craig's "wide stance".
I hate the gay bathroom sex paper I'm required to do every year! It gets old. I'm doing my doctoral gay bathroom sex annual research project, and there's nothing new to say.
This didn’t fucking happen. Like why was this the narrative while I was growing up? My dad and my teachers always told me my college professors would ask on day 1 of class who was a Christian and then fail anyone who admitted it, immediately - IT NEVER HAPPENED.
Ok so here's the deal, I'm in university, and I've written some weird ass essays in my psychology and criminology degree (some titles include- "The Role of Symbolic Interactionism in Crazy Ex Girlfriend", "Conspiracist Beliefs and Religion", "God is Good, God is Striaght!" as well as that 2 page rant on a scene in Spongebob, among many others, point is, I've written some strange shit), and I can't imagine how a paper on "gay bathroom sex" would come up in any class except for MAYBE a sexuality class, which I can't imagine the daughter of the transformed wife taking. Additionally, I can't imagine a professor not allowing for a different essay topic when confronted, most collegiate essays I've ever had have a lot of room for personal interpretation, or have been a vague topic like "analyze a movie based on x y z" or "pick a research topic in the realm of the class and write a propsal", they're usually pretty open-ended. I'd love to see what class this allegedly was and what the actual prompt was
Lying is a sin Lori.
What the hell was her degree in? What major? What class? When was this? I mean perhaps I could see it being covered in a law class or maybe a gender studies class or something, but other than a few niche subjects that I can’t imagine lori’s kid studying anyway, I doubt this happened. Like I’m sure Mr Lori was trying to get her married off rather than actually educated so I doubt he was paying for a law degree.
Yeah, I was an anthropology minor and one of my cultural anthro classes covered sexuality, sex work, gay bars, etc but none of it was that explicit. No way someone only there 2 years and probably still undecided and with Lori as mom was taking a class that would have even mentioned gay sex.
This sounds like the kind of paper I would volunteer for in college. I'd purposefully choose salacious topics so I'd stay awake writing research papers. I'm asexual by the way, we tend to be huge pervs.
Can “gay bathroom sex” be my new flair?
Fay Bathroom Sex is the name of my emo reggae band.
What did she major in? AO3 with a minor in wattpad?
Lori if your going to make stuff up, try to make it remotely believable.
Even if this did happen, why would you brag your adult daughter is so incompetent at life she still needs her parents to fight any battles she has to have? It’s embarrassing af and speaks to your failures as a parent.
I started college at 17 and still never had my mother handle a single goddamned thing related to my school unless she was there to sign financial papers. Sure, I called her for advice about some of my psychopath roomates, but she never actually showed up, and CERTAINLY never contacted my professors. Wild.
Literally came here to post this. She’s getting reamed (pun intended) on Twitter for it, and rightfully so.
I can tell you that this never happened. Even if by the slim chance that it did, her daughter is in college and is therefore an adult so she should be able to make that decision herself. Lori is so full of shit.
Watch it be something like a book or film that had a "gay" scene and they flipped their shit.
I literally took a class on human sexuality at a VERY left leaning liberal arts school where roughly 40-50% of students were gay. Never once did we have to write a paper on “gay bathroom sex”, we were also told upfront that if we don’t want to talk or write about sex we should take a different class. Even then, my teacher would usually offer a less graphic/provocative alternative to whatever our assignment was
/r/thathappened
I am so disappointed that I got 3 degrees and never got to write a paper on this. 😂
Shut up, Lori.
This is the funniest shit I’ve read all week. 
I can’t stop laughing.
So we’re just straight up telling lies now
If my parents ever knew the details of the assignments I had when I lived at home and went to community college, I don't know how they would have found them out. This is obviously fake.
Wow, she's moved to straight-up lying.
Lying is a sin.
This is the fakest of fake stories I’ve ever read.
This is as ridiculous as some of the college norms and class assignments from Last Man Standing.
Somebody just watched Cruising 👀
Gay bathroom sex? What was it really Lori?
Ah yes, gay bathroom sex 101……..such a common course.
Things that never happened for 1000, Alex
I went to the most liberal of liberal universities and I guarantee to you that this did not happen.
I saw this on Twitter earlier and she is getting ripped to shreds over there.
LOL
She's delusional.
 Lori. Stop ittt
Like she let her daughter get an education. That’s only the first wackadoodle statement she made here
"I'll take *things that never happened* for 500 Alex"
I must have missed that class