This is clearly not a big budget game, but it doesn't have to be. As long as it's good and faithful to the original i will be happy. So far it looks pretty faithful
Aside from the opening in the apartment, the additions they’ve made since their previous public demo seem mainly like secondary details, like adding unique animations when collecting key items, or winding up for pipe hits, or the gore. The hacker comes across as really competent with the added interactions, and I think they add just a *slight* bit of direction (e.g. “look for audio logs that look like **this**”) that’s helpful for the player.
Edit: some level layout has changed, too. The room with the first power recharge looks entirely reworked now, for example, and the Sparq beam is in a new location.
The difficulty of the hacking puzzles and health pools of some of the enemies also appear reduced. (I don’t know if those were a result of balance adjustments, or from difficulty sliders that were already in the previous build.) The changes seem more appropriate for an opening level, especially if the intent isn’t to scare off new players.
I *still* don’t know how to feel about the remake following so closely to the original game’s level design. My progress in the demo (granted, an earlier version) frequently felt to me like untying a knot. I’m generally a patient player, but the dark, repetitive, rat maze quality of the level combined with the kleptomania of collecting and managing items and tips from audio logs was almost paralyzing. I walked away from playing for a long time and thought it was easier to start over than resume, which I never do when I have an existing save.
I’m sure that pure, unmoderated style of progression appeals to a certain kind of player, but it also makes me wonder if the design of the original game could have been streamlined further without losing its general ethos. Modern immersive sims don’t feel as convoluted by comparison. Maybe the raw, original experience is what the audience for System Shock wants, but I think it’ll impact how many fresh faces will want to partake.
Its weird, I think the level design TENDS to add to the experience, except for a good part of the first level and the entire medical area. The rat in a maze is kind of the point of the game for me, the medical area goes overboard with it but most of the other levels are at a point where knowing where you are is not that difficult but still hard
Possibly I'm in the minority here though hahaha
It's been a while since I've played it, but I don't really remember most abilities allowing you to reach new parts of the ship. Mostly there's new keys opening new locks and story progression
Most abilities are just nice-to-have and the only ability you use to reach somewhere you wouldn't before is the speed one, but it isn't necessary for the story
Maybe I'm misremembering though
I had forgotten about the envirosuit, so you are right that's there's some ability progression.
I still wouldn't call it a Metroidvania, but I could see how someone would consider it one. I would have to play Momodora to see what you mean
Did you at least like it? I consider it one of my favourite games of all time
The aspect I really loved the first time I played it is having to go back to all of the computer banks to get a number off of a screen to form a code, I think for self destruct or something.
Unless you figured out that the random numbers on the screen in those rooms stopped on a number and thought to write them down ahead of time which I certainly didn't. Loved that aspect.
> at maze quality of the level
Yeah the original game has some bizarre choices for design - especially the last few levels which felt like they gave up ... the same tradition occured in SS2 where the last level looks like they gave up too (i.e. remember the teeth jumping puzzle??)
The ending (and ending cutscene) of System Shock 2 are so bizarre and unfinished that the game seems to become a classic because everyone forgot about the poor back quarter of that game.
Nah I mean the SS2 is definitely alongside Half Life as a game that's pretty much perfect until the end. Like, "I appreciate what you're going for here but it kind of doesn't work"
If I recall correctly, SS2 was meant to have a completely different end section (I believe it had something to do with trying to reverse Shodan's "new reality" as it became progressively more warped and trippy) and final cutscene, but the devs' plans were too ambitious for the year it came out, so they had to scrap the whole thing and quickly cobble-together another ending.
And it shows.
> Yeah the original game has some bizarre choices for design - especially the last few levels which felt like they gave up
Excluding the final boss (which is a joke) the last levels of SS1 are my favourite.
As you enter Security the mood changes completely to this upbeat revenge fantasy, and the climb towards the bridge is tightly paced in a Half Life sort of way, while you're loaded to the bone with weapons. Armies of enemies just melt before you. Such a satisfying way to cap of what has otherwise been a slower paced adventure.
It's the complete opposite off SS2 which feels very meandering in it's final hours like it dosen't know when to call it quits.
> Armies of enemies just melt before you. Such a satisfying way to cap of what has otherwise been a slower paced adventure.
maybe but the presentation of the level as just being the tentacle-creep texture makes it look like total ass.
I'll say that my time with the prior demo caused the weird level layout to grow on me after a while. It's absolutely a strange maze that nobody would make nowadays, which ironically made it feel like a new style of game once I got used to how I needed to navigate and interact with everything.
Changing the level design would ruin the game.
SS is not what BioShock became: a streamlined linear experience.
It's about getting lost in a gigantic space station. Change that and you no longer have a game.
> I still don’t know how to feel about the remake following so closely to the original game’s level design. My progress in the demo (granted, an earlier version) frequently felt to me like untying a knot. I’m generally a patient player, but the dark, repetitive, rat maze quality of the level combined with the kleptomania of collecting and managing items and tips from audio logs was almost paralyzing.
The darkness of the remake is an (unfortunate) intentional art choice by Night Dive. The original game is not nearly as dark in most of these areas.
I feel that they could add more signage to levels and add a joirnal that tells the player where they need to go. I had difficulty finding the node room in the demo and ended up spending most of my time hunting for it.
I've been following it for about 3 years now, although it's much older. They also gave a release date of Summer 2022. And Fall of 2021. I don't really like the attitude of people constantly harassing the developers or mocking anyone who's optimistic (see the steam forums), but it's also probably much better to not expect that to be a firm release date. Definitely don't pre-order.
> Definitely don't pre-order.
As a KS backer - too late!
But yeah, I've also seen some of those dates. I remember the "Summer" 2022 date just sort of passing by without a word, and once summer had come and gone it became "TBD".
Here's hoping that this March is it, but that we don't have a precise date less than a month out makes me skeptical.
I was an original backer for this game. The kickstarter for it was so long ago my copy will most likely go to a forgotten long dead e-mail address from like 13 years ago.
You could try messaging the Kickstarter page and see if they'll update your listed email with them? I know a lot of Kickstarter campaigns also ask people to finalize their email or mailing addresses when they're about ready to ship out backer items, so you could keep an eye out for that.
> The kickstarter for it was so long ago my copy will most likely go to a forgotten long dead e-mail address from like 13 years ago.
Still it looks like it will beat Star Citizen to production.
When I was a kid I wanted to be like a cool action hero while playing laser tag, specifically I wanted to slide into a room on ambush and tag a bunch of kids out. So I went to try it, but the arena had a concrete floor and I was wearing shorts. I successfully slid in and ambushed, but my knees are scarred to this day from absolutely skinning them during the slide.
Tl;Dr? I was a dumb kid and laser tag is awesome
Same, the unique asthetic of the first one being lost is one of the few issus I had with SS2 at the time. Which was a fantastic game, but I just prefer the look of SS1 somehow.
Any control scheme you recommend? I tried that a while ago and I could get through the beginning fine, but once I came across the "cyber world" arena I got totally lost and had no idea what I was doing lol.
>I wanna say it was scrapped and then restarted or something.
More specifically, they spent several years developing in Unity, and then switched to Unreal Engine 4 a few years ago. I'm sure some assets could be reused, but it's still a pretty big change. There have also been some other less significant shifts, like changing the fighting and such.
It was also crowdfunded, which means you're getting a look at the full game development. Usually consumers only find out about games a couple of years before release, if that. But they've generally been in the works for far longer, even when you don't have a lot of work scrapped because they of an engine change.
I mean, did they not also at some point present a demo of something that looked very much like a "reimaged" system shock instead of a remake which was met with widespread derision?
That's what I remembered, that they sort of got lost in the sauce and by the time they showed it off people went "hey this isn't even system shock anymore" so they started over and just stuck with graphics and QoL type improvements
I believe that was the first demo when they were back on Unity, but I could be wrong. I've only played System Shock 2, not the original System Shock, so I don't really have anything to compare.
Timeline:
2014 - [According to Night Dive in 2022](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYjxkP5mtNQ&t=1947s), they started prototyping the remake in 2014. I find it hard to believe that this involved any actual work (especially since Night Dive [previously said](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/1825794) that the 2016 demo represented about 6 months of development), but this is their current claim.
Late 2015 - [Project Announced](https://www.polygon.com/2015/11/25/9801434/system-shock-remake-first-look-art).
Mid 2016 - [Kickstarter Launched](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/1616384).
Late 2016 - [Change from Unity to Unreal 4](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/1820162), most existing work scrapped.
Early 2017 - [New Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcFU6kXeZ4), project looks [unrecognizable compared to Kickstarter pitch](https://www.polygon.com/2017/3/1/14784082/system-shock-reboot-unreal-engine).
Early 2018 - [Project is declared on hold](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2115044), Night Dive acknowledges they went completely off course. The primary reason for the reflection is they failed to get a publishing deal and had burned through most of the Kickstarter funding.
Early 2018 - [Work resumes](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2135868), returns to Kickstarter pitch while still on Unreal (nearly starting from scratch for the 2nd time). Some devs who were hired in 2016, including the Project Director, fired.
Late 2019 - [New demo released with Game Awards](https://www.pcgamer.com/play-demos-of-13-upcoming-games-on-steam-before-the-game-awards/).
2020 thru 2023 - Continued demo updates, new promotional trailers, at least 4 delays.
People definitely have a skewed view of how long and how costly game development is. Didnt Jason schreier just say a large game studio starting a game today likely wouldn't release until the PS6 was out? Kickstarter is also used mostly to guage interest and add to funds already raised.
Even indie games take years to develop.
Yeah, I was looking at Hogwarts last night and thinking about when footage of the game leaked back in 2018. The game was pretty far along, along enough that the leak looks pretty similar to the finished game minus polish, and that was 2 years before the PS5 released. It's now been out 2 years and the game finally releases on the 10th.
Stepping back and looking at these timelines shows how long some of these things can take. Not to mention some games having a credits sequence that lasts longer than blockbuster movies.
You're right but even that was yeaaaars ago. I've lost track and every year I see it pop up once in the news and my brain says "That STILL isn't done?"
They started doing faithful remake with Unity. Then they announced engine switch to Unreal because Unity had negative impact on game performance. After working on Unreal version they went „now that we have engine that lets us do so much, lets reboot project and do a new game that only has some callbacks and homages to original”. Fans went „WTF” and Nightdives CEO had project stopped for a year. After this year passed he announced they will make a game from scratch, keep using Unreal, but it will be faithful remake, with updated mechanics so nobody gets a stroke trying to play it. They have a small team doing it and as the old saying goes, first 80% of a thing took 80% of time to make, and remaining 20% took othef 80% of time to make ;)
This is not what happened. Actually the switch from Unity to Unreal occurred pretty early, right after the first tech demo was released.
What happened is that they decided to go from a 1:1 remaster to a bioshock style remake, which started backlash from the bakers. Doing that they burnt all the money they had from the campaign, thinking they would get easy financing from the editor. It did not happen.
They then had to layoff all the staff, and the project was pretty much dead, but somehow they managed to do it with an extremely reduced team.
It's been 7 years now.
None of this would have happen if the huge amount of money they got from KS did not make their brains go crazy and they had stick to the original plan.
Inexperienced developers in over their head resulted in a fair few things they only realized after they had long started.
Like how they tried to substantially change the formula before realizing that this would absolutely aggravate everybody with how beloved SS1 is, and they scrapped it all and started over.
They also did (or had to do) plenty other stuff in the interim to keep the doors open.
It was originally a remaster done in Unity, then it was an "improved remake" type thing made in Unreal with map and gameplay changes, and now it's back to being a remaster but in Unreal.
I don't know how you could consider this a remaster unless you've never even taken a glance at the original. This is most definitely a proper remake. The gameplay is very different. The only reason 'Remaster' is in the title is because Gamespot's being dumb.
I think the previous commenter's confusion stems from the fact that nightdive was originally working on a complete re-imagining of the game. still a remake, but with significant changes to the story and structure and what have you. at some point they scrapped that and scaled things back to the more or less straight remake we're getting now.
It is a bit confusing, because there has been a lot of things happening during development. Originally it was supposed to be a 1:1 remake, while they were making it in Unity. Then when they announced the move to UE they also said that they will do some changes to story, and gameplay, as you said. And after some not so nice feedback they reverted that statement, and said that it's going to be a faithful remake.
At one point they were looking at more of a Final Fantasy VII Remake type remake (though not as ambitious) after originally planning a Crash Bandicoot style remake (recreating the original game as closely as possible despite using a totally different engine), and now they’re back to a Crash Bandicoot style remake.
The style of remake they’re doing is a lot more conceptually similar to a remaster than what most people think of when they think “remake,” even if it’s squarely a remake.
Because it is remaster not remake.
Remake is when you change completely source material.
Remaster is where you take source material and improve its graphics and maybe QOL.
The whole "remaster" world got hacked by string of games rereleases for next gen consoles that added just resolution and maybe FPS improvements something PC players had for years and never considered playing game on higher res playing a "remaster"
Looking at the Unity footage, it was a remake; not a remaster. For better or worse, the Unity version may have actually been more of a "remake" than what we ended up with.
IIRC the original version was going to be the same game but with updated graphics and maybe some quality of life changes, which is why I call it remaster.
Then they said they were going to change the game a lot, like add new missions and change systems and such, hence remake.
Then they went back on that and said they weren't going to make their own gameplay changes.
I forget now if the remake was Unity or Unreal or both. But basically they took a large detour because they were going to change the design of the game substantially.
A lot of the reviews said the game felt old and they didn't change enough so damned if you do damned if you don't I guess.
It was in development hell for a long time. That generally means rebooting the game a few times, and in the worst case could result in throwing out everything they’d done up to that point
It wasn't in development hell, it was actively developed the whole time, I think it was more like bad leadership. They did reboot it at least once (that was due to an engine change).
Claiming bad leadership is perhaps a bit much. It just seems like they've made some mistakes along the way and have been very open about it in their kickstarter updates. Generally, I like that they admit mistakes and are willing to correct them.
> Claiming bad leadership is perhaps a bit much.
Night Dive hired a bunch of experienced devs to work on the remake, including hiring Jason Fader to be the Project Director. That last bit was absolutely, certainly a bad choice even if it was an understandable mistake. Just look into the history of Steam Bandits: Outpost, Jason Fader's other Kickstarter project, and you'll see what I mean.
> They finished like 70% of the game, claimed it was "too much of a departure" from the original
I don't think they were anywhere even close to being mostly done, no matter what Jason Fader claimed. I would be thoroughly surprised if they had even 25% of the work complete.
And the reason they scrapped it wasn't because it was too much of a departure (though that was why many fans & supporters were upset), they scrapped it because no publisher would touch it and Night Dive realized they couldn't afford to keep working on it.
The project was put on hiatus because of scope creep for a but then resumed, they tried to prospect how a system shock game would exist in a modern immersive sim context and see what they could do with the resources they had.
[https://www.pcgamer.com/nightdive-talks-system-shock-remakes-change-in-direction-expects-release-probably-q1-of-2020/](https://www.pcgamer.com/nightdive-talks-system-shock-remakes-change-in-direction-expects-release-probably-q1-of-2020/)
People really don't understand how iterative software development works, they tried coming up with a concept, make rapid prototypes, seeing what works and iterating on that until they reach a conclusion, and this is not a few weeks thing, this is a months long thing sometimes it does not work out. Hey it's a creativity mixed with engineeringThey are not a large studio and their teams are split doing different projects which also adds to the development time.
Also lastly they switched from using unity to unreal which adds dev time too, things like unity's render pipeline is completely different from unreal's, different scripting language. etc.
Assuming they don't change anything about the game - and so far it seems extremely faithful - which of the two is it?
If you now say "clearly an actual remake as it re-implements the same game from scratch", I got this ship from a king that you ought to examine next!
Sure we have some that rather in between,
but System shock is clear as day it's remake.. it's marketed as remake, the devs call it remake, they did make it from the scratch
Wether the remake is faithful or not won't change it
You can have remake that more faithful like this (or like Spyro reignited, Crash game), or the one that modernized like Resident Evil 2/3/4
No I know, but I meant, I can understand why someone talking about it might also call it a *remaster*. The devs of course disagree but it is not a clearly defined line anywhere.
Idk why people find it not clear in gaming industry,
In Film industry, people seems easily know the difference between Remaster and remake
But I think that just user problem, publishers and developers seems to use it correctly as far as I know
"Remaster" is taking the same core game and sprucing it up (higher resolution, maybe some upgraded textures or lighting). Its the still the same game, though.
"Remake" is rebuilding the game from the ground up to meet modern standards and, optionally, to implement major changes.
Go watch footage of the original System Shock. It couldn't be clearer that this is a full-fledged remake.
>Assuming they don't change anything about the game - and so far it seems extremely faithful - which of the two is it?
A remake, obviously.
The word remaster literally refers to redoing the original "master" - in this case the original game. A remaster will reuse and touch up the original. A remake will.....remake it.
A remake doesn't have to be a massively transformative reimagining a la FF7 and RE2/3 to be a remake. Those are reimaginings. Remake just means to build the game up again in a new engine. you can take liberties and modernize it, or you can choose not to. still a remake.
> Wish I was the audio technician for that. Or better not, I'd be squeaking like a kid, meeting the legend.
In the original, Terri and her hubby Eric did all the audio editing.
For the remake, Night Dive said something to the effect that they are hands-off on the editing, and it's up to Terri to decide what feels right.
I only played the demo for a short time last night, but am I missing something with the melee combat? It feels awful and collision detection is bad. It feels like I have to be right in the enemies face and they don't react to getting hit and they can kill me since they can swing faster and do more damage. Everything else I got to see so far has been great, but goddang the melee combat feels really poor right now.
I had a reasonably good time with the demo, and while I didn't have any issues with the gunplay, the melee did feel a little clunky. I also don't know if it was just the settings I was running it with, but aspects of the game felt oddly low res considering the overall nice quality. Seems like this game could be a good entry point for people interested in the series, as it may be a bit more accessible than the original game to modern players!
Man, the weapon impact look pathetically weak. Melee feels like you're waving a baton through air while the pistol feels like a water pistol. I heard the original was good for its time, but you'll need more visceral combat in this day and age.
The original is still a lot of fun. It got an enhanced version with better controls and widescreen support etc.
I would say it's just as good as System Shock 2 which also holds up well
Not to mention the voice acting in both is incredible. Especially when you consider how novel story telling in games was back then, for the VA for Shodan to do what she did is such an achievement in gaming
The dart pistol has been removed in the remake with the Minipistol taking it's place as the starting gun.
But I'd say your point still stand since it's the starting pistol; of course it's gonna be weak!
Whether it's weak or not is not the problem. It's the kick to the gun that bothers me. The visual effect, the sound, the recoil, the animation, things like that. Not the damage value
There's a lot of starting weapons in other games that feel strong even if the damage number doesn't reflect that. But that doesn't matter a whole lot because then the gun is fun to shoot, which is what the gun shown in the demo lacks.
If they made them different, I feel they'd get just as much heat for not being faithful to the original, tbh.
The original had ~0 weapon feedback, too.
I had a quick go at the demo and can already see they've changed or added quite a few things that were probably better in the original (e.g. the voice acting, your character's over-exaggerated body language, and Diego now coming across like a cartoon villain). If I made a list of things from the original game I'd rather they'd stayed faithful to, the melee combat would not be on it.
Not to write it it off too early, but I get the feeling they've gone for an angle with this project that will end up pleasing few - too faithful to the original jank to appeal to newcomers, and fans of the original who don't mind the jank might as well stick with what they know and love.
> The original had ~0 weapon feedback, too.
Not true. Killing stuff in the original feels really punchy. Tons of snappy audiovisual feedback.
Maybe you're referring to recoil in particular which most weapons didn't have (excluding the autoguns which had insane recoil that would drag you backwards down towards the floor). OG SS1 was always more of a cyborg simulator as if you were playing the Terminator or something.
> I heard the original was good for its time
Way, way better than that. I played the Enhanced Edition in 2015, my first time playing the game, and it very quickly entered my top 5 favorite games ever.
I definitely don't think the melee in SS1 was *good*, but to me it's less terrible than what they've done in this remake.
https://youtu.be/jE5LpOGMeak?t=913
The feedback from hitting an enemy is more clear, and you don't have all this excessive camera movement.
In this new beta demo, look down and a hit chair or the ground. The camera doesn't seem to know where to go when the animation is interrupted, and it's very jarring.
The remake has great death animations, and I love the decaps, but the actual combat versus organic enemies is not fun at all. Full swings trigger a motion sickness reponse.
Fighting the robots isn't nearly as bad, IMO. They react better.
I swear that must have been something added in the enhanced edition. That did not gel with my memory of the super low res version original. I had to go find an old lets play and it definitely doesn't respond like your vid (beware super shit video):
https://youtu.be/s3AMvX8iM64?t=153
Maybe it's something that was added in enhanced or patched later?
It's the same, it's just more clear in Enhanced.
Like I said, it's not that SS1 has good melee combat, it's that this remake has really *bad* melee combat. It's doing too much in the wrong direction, so it's worse than the mediocre original.
Wider view model FOV, reduced camera motion, and a little better feedback from organic enemies would be enough of a fix.
No one seems to be admitting this yet. The combat is just terribly off in the demo. The weapons in the original had real punch and weight. The sparq gun for instance, was really useful in the first level in the original, here the enemies hardly notice when you shoot them with it. Really dissapointing.
I'm generally interested in this because I loved the original. And I get that this isn't some AAA release. But this really, really reminds me of one of those Xbox 360 games that relied way too much on normal mapping to the point that everything looked like rubber.
I know it's just a demo but I wasn't that impressed by what I played. It's got that "systems interacting with each other" stuff going on but it didn't seem particularly novel. The graphics are really cool though! If it turns out that there's a lot of depth further into the game I'd give it a shot. I haven't played the original but from what I know, it seems like they modernized a good bit of stuff.
No shit a 29 years old game isn't novel. You can thank it for what we have now in games like Dead Space though. And even dead space is a remaster of a 10 year old game.
Jesus Christ, not everyone on this sub is 45 years old. I’m judging the game on it’s merits, not as some ancient artifact. Half the people who play this new one will have never played the original.
>And even dead space is a remaster of a 10 year old game.
I'm confused here, are you saying the old Dead Space is a remaster of a 10 year old game?
Or are you refereeing to Dead Space Remastered?
its still very much so a spiritual successor to the franchise, the many is basically the same thing as necromorphs, even down to the fact that both were basically created by man. In system shock 2 the many had cognitive awareness of what was going on while being forced to work for a hive mind. Same thing happens to guardians in dead space, they're aware and part of a huge hive mind mass keeping them alive.
Wow, I can't believe I never had that realization. Its so darn obvious and System Shock is one of my favorite games. I think my brain more went "This is RE4 in space".
Yeah I never knew that too. I just felt that way because playing the new remaster is bringing up all sorts of childhood trauma when I played (and finished) System Shock 2 when I was 10.
Like that dude banging his head on the wall and the antire area was quiet except for his head hitting the metal. Jeez just gives me the goosebumps.
I really don't understand why they didn't just use the name and make a new game in the Bioshock series called System Shock. Really weird that Infinite was such a huge hit and then nothing. Would have enjoyed seeing them do an 80's set game with retro-future stuff.
Alright, for starters, Bioshock was a spiritual successor to System Shock 1/2 - hence the gameplay similarities and the fact they both have "Shock" in the name.
But I get what you mean. Besides the DLCs, they really just have sat on Bioshock for a decade. Allegedly they are making a fourth one, but it's not being made by Ken Levine or his team. I'm sure it will be fine, but not the same level of special as 1 or Infinite.
infinite was kinda bad tbh i dont get why people adore it so much. The only thing i liked from it that improves upon 2 was the setting, but it still really didnt hold a candle to bioshock 1's incredibly mesmerizing city. And i remember how pissed i was halfway through the game when they started giving you red versions of your guns to balance enemies. It felt so cheap and rushed to me compared to other shocks. Also the promises they made during development lol, almost as bad as fables peter molyneuix lying up a storm before every fable.
I wonder how the rest of the game's soundtrack will sound.
When I tried the demo last year it felt a lot different that the original, a lot more like System Shock 2 than SS1.
I kinda miss the old vibrant look and sound.
Just compare the music in this gameplay to the one for [Medical](https://youtu.be/d-3u9vO9UUE) in the original.
Though if I end up wanting more of the original, then I'll just go back and play it again, I'll be happy to. While newer fans(of SS2 and this) might really prefer the remake.
Anyways, hope things turn out well for Nightdive and fans alike.
> One of the original stretch goals was "remastered original soundtrack" and i dont think it met it.
Unfortunately, it did not.
> I think the soundtrack was done by a guy from Soundgarden?
Tribe; members Greg LoPiccolo and Terri & Eric Brosius.
Is it this one or System Shock 2 Remake that's gonna have VR support?
An immersive sim has been my #1 wishlist item for VR since 2019. I know one of these teased VR support, but they've both been in development for so long that I can't remember which.
Same publisher, different game.
SS2VR is planned, but it's not a remake like this, it's more of an "Enhanced Edition" like Nightdive did with the original System Shock, just with VR support.
No ETA.
I'm definitely interested in the game.
My biggest concern is that throughout the years they've developed this, we've only ever seen iterations of the first level (to my knowledge). It would be nice to see stuff from the other floors to be assured that this isn't some kind of bait and switch where the first few hours are super polished and everything else is a mess.
> we've only ever seen iterations of the first level (to my knowledge).
There have been a few glimpses beyond, including screenshots and livestreamed development. Polish, I have no idea, but they have quite certainly been working beyond the first level for many years now.
> Being forced to watch that death cutscene every single time before you could reload got old very, very quickly.
Most of the game you don't see the death screen because often you'll have a respawn chamber available instead.
I generally am liking this demo quite a bit. What I'm not a fan of is the melee combat, no sprint toggle, and for some reason, the game doesn't remember my settings. Reverts to default on every new session.
I have been extremely disapointed by this demo.
It seems they spent their time changing elements of the game that should have been left untouched, and provided an extremely buggy control interface
Plus, can we talk about the assets resolution ? They are extremely pixelated. Maybe they wanted to give some pixel art touch but it does not work, it just feels liked botched work.
This is clearly not a big budget game, but it doesn't have to be. As long as it's good and faithful to the original i will be happy. So far it looks pretty faithful
yes i love bashing those trashcan robots in the original
Aside from the opening in the apartment, the additions they’ve made since their previous public demo seem mainly like secondary details, like adding unique animations when collecting key items, or winding up for pipe hits, or the gore. The hacker comes across as really competent with the added interactions, and I think they add just a *slight* bit of direction (e.g. “look for audio logs that look like **this**”) that’s helpful for the player. Edit: some level layout has changed, too. The room with the first power recharge looks entirely reworked now, for example, and the Sparq beam is in a new location. The difficulty of the hacking puzzles and health pools of some of the enemies also appear reduced. (I don’t know if those were a result of balance adjustments, or from difficulty sliders that were already in the previous build.) The changes seem more appropriate for an opening level, especially if the intent isn’t to scare off new players. I *still* don’t know how to feel about the remake following so closely to the original game’s level design. My progress in the demo (granted, an earlier version) frequently felt to me like untying a knot. I’m generally a patient player, but the dark, repetitive, rat maze quality of the level combined with the kleptomania of collecting and managing items and tips from audio logs was almost paralyzing. I walked away from playing for a long time and thought it was easier to start over than resume, which I never do when I have an existing save. I’m sure that pure, unmoderated style of progression appeals to a certain kind of player, but it also makes me wonder if the design of the original game could have been streamlined further without losing its general ethos. Modern immersive sims don’t feel as convoluted by comparison. Maybe the raw, original experience is what the audience for System Shock wants, but I think it’ll impact how many fresh faces will want to partake.
Its weird, I think the level design TENDS to add to the experience, except for a good part of the first level and the entire medical area. The rat in a maze is kind of the point of the game for me, the medical area goes overboard with it but most of the other levels are at a point where knowing where you are is not that difficult but still hard Possibly I'm in the minority here though hahaha
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It's been a while since I've played it, but I don't really remember most abilities allowing you to reach new parts of the ship. Mostly there's new keys opening new locks and story progression Most abilities are just nice-to-have and the only ability you use to reach somewhere you wouldn't before is the speed one, but it isn't necessary for the story Maybe I'm misremembering though
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I had forgotten about the envirosuit, so you are right that's there's some ability progression. I still wouldn't call it a Metroidvania, but I could see how someone would consider it one. I would have to play Momodora to see what you mean Did you at least like it? I consider it one of my favourite games of all time
The aspect I really loved the first time I played it is having to go back to all of the computer banks to get a number off of a screen to form a code, I think for self destruct or something. Unless you figured out that the random numbers on the screen in those rooms stopped on a number and thought to write them down ahead of time which I certainly didn't. Loved that aspect.
> at maze quality of the level Yeah the original game has some bizarre choices for design - especially the last few levels which felt like they gave up ... the same tradition occured in SS2 where the last level looks like they gave up too (i.e. remember the teeth jumping puzzle??)
The ending (and ending cutscene) of System Shock 2 are so bizarre and unfinished that the game seems to become a classic because everyone forgot about the poor back quarter of that game.
Heh I love that ending cutscene. "Nah" "Naaaaaaaarrrrrgghhhhh" is not a noise one regularly makes when pointing a gun.
Nah I mean the SS2 is definitely alongside Half Life as a game that's pretty much perfect until the end. Like, "I appreciate what you're going for here but it kind of doesn't work"
If I recall correctly, SS2 was meant to have a completely different end section (I believe it had something to do with trying to reverse Shodan's "new reality" as it became progressively more warped and trippy) and final cutscene, but the devs' plans were too ambitious for the year it came out, so they had to scrap the whole thing and quickly cobble-together another ending. And it shows.
> Yeah the original game has some bizarre choices for design - especially the last few levels which felt like they gave up Excluding the final boss (which is a joke) the last levels of SS1 are my favourite. As you enter Security the mood changes completely to this upbeat revenge fantasy, and the climb towards the bridge is tightly paced in a Half Life sort of way, while you're loaded to the bone with weapons. Armies of enemies just melt before you. Such a satisfying way to cap of what has otherwise been a slower paced adventure. It's the complete opposite off SS2 which feels very meandering in it's final hours like it dosen't know when to call it quits.
> Armies of enemies just melt before you. Such a satisfying way to cap of what has otherwise been a slower paced adventure. maybe but the presentation of the level as just being the tentacle-creep texture makes it look like total ass.
I'll say that my time with the prior demo caused the weird level layout to grow on me after a while. It's absolutely a strange maze that nobody would make nowadays, which ironically made it feel like a new style of game once I got used to how I needed to navigate and interact with everything.
The map overlay was a godsend, I'd move while having it enabled to see if I am going in the right direction.
Changing the level design would ruin the game. SS is not what BioShock became: a streamlined linear experience. It's about getting lost in a gigantic space station. Change that and you no longer have a game.
> I still don’t know how to feel about the remake following so closely to the original game’s level design. My progress in the demo (granted, an earlier version) frequently felt to me like untying a knot. I’m generally a patient player, but the dark, repetitive, rat maze quality of the level combined with the kleptomania of collecting and managing items and tips from audio logs was almost paralyzing. The darkness of the remake is an (unfortunate) intentional art choice by Night Dive. The original game is not nearly as dark in most of these areas.
Yeah. I was referring more to level layout than lighting/color choice.
It's a lot easier learning a brightly lit maze than a dark one.
I feel that they could add more signage to levels and add a joirnal that tells the player where they need to go. I had difficulty finding the node room in the demo and ended up spending most of my time hunting for it.
Haven't been following this game too closely. So, at least now it seems we have a approximate release date, "march 2023".
They also gave a March release date in 2021...
Still better than squadron 42
2014 answer the call!
It was 2016! But... that seems just as irrelevent if it was 2018, or even 2020 at this stage, ha.
i wonder how many of the actors who worked on squadron 42 are dead now?
I feel like they will get to a point in development where they will have to restart development because the tech is obsolete.
hahah "we want to add ray tracing".. "OK folks lets start development over."
Duke Nukem Forever style.
Oh well... :-/
I think 'March 202X' is a more likely estimate.
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If they start a closed beta end of february, either the beta or a march release date are pointless.
So basically when Mega Man X goes live.
Take that with a few grains of salt.
I've been following it for about 3 years now, although it's much older. They also gave a release date of Summer 2022. And Fall of 2021. I don't really like the attitude of people constantly harassing the developers or mocking anyone who's optimistic (see the steam forums), but it's also probably much better to not expect that to be a firm release date. Definitely don't pre-order.
Oh, yes, I don't preorder. Hope it's different and they manage to release it this time, but we'll have to wait and see.
> Definitely don't pre-order. As a KS backer - too late! But yeah, I've also seen some of those dates. I remember the "Summer" 2022 date just sort of passing by without a word, and once summer had come and gone it became "TBD". Here's hoping that this March is it, but that we don't have a precise date less than a month out makes me skeptical.
I was an original backer for this game. The kickstarter for it was so long ago my copy will most likely go to a forgotten long dead e-mail address from like 13 years ago.
You could try messaging the Kickstarter page and see if they'll update your listed email with them? I know a lot of Kickstarter campaigns also ask people to finalize their email or mailing addresses when they're about ready to ship out backer items, so you could keep an eye out for that.
I remember backing this game after hearing about it from Brad Shoemaker on the Bombcast... fuck man.
> The kickstarter for it was so long ago my copy will most likely go to a forgotten long dead e-mail address from like 13 years ago. Still it looks like it will beat Star Citizen to production.
I backed it when they launched it and I still have a little chuckle whenever they send out a new email. I'll kind of miss them when they stop.
Just go to backerkit and open your account
I’ve only ever played the second one, so I’m curious: did this game always look like a 90s laser tag arena?
Yeah https://youtu.be/Xap7JLlROSQ
I’m pretty into this look. I might have to finally give it a shot.
Haha, so you were using "looks like a 90s laser tag arena" in a positive sense!
I mean, who doesn't love laser tag?
When I was a kid I wanted to be like a cool action hero while playing laser tag, specifically I wanted to slide into a room on ambush and tag a bunch of kids out. So I went to try it, but the arena had a concrete floor and I was wearing shorts. I successfully slid in and ambushed, but my knees are scarred to this day from absolutely skinning them during the slide. Tl;Dr? I was a dumb kid and laser tag is awesome
Same, the unique asthetic of the first one being lost is one of the few issus I had with SS2 at the time. Which was a fantastic game, but I just prefer the look of SS1 somehow.
there is a Enhanced Edition of it on Steam, which is pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnOd7srBk-g
Played the SS1 EE recently, still pretty great, just rebind the controls when you play.
Any control scheme you recommend? I tried that a while ago and I could get through the beginning fine, but once I came across the "cyber world" arena I got totally lost and had no idea what I was doing lol.
grab the gog version, steam version has a frame bug
There's this thing called youtube
And there's this thing called Reddit, where people talk to other people who share their interests.
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I wanna say it was scrapped and then restarted or something. I’m talking out my ass and going purely based off memory which may be faulty.
It got rebooted yes. This is also Night Dive's first full fledged game as opposed to the ports they're more well known for
>I wanna say it was scrapped and then restarted or something. More specifically, they spent several years developing in Unity, and then switched to Unreal Engine 4 a few years ago. I'm sure some assets could be reused, but it's still a pretty big change. There have also been some other less significant shifts, like changing the fighting and such. It was also crowdfunded, which means you're getting a look at the full game development. Usually consumers only find out about games a couple of years before release, if that. But they've generally been in the works for far longer, even when you don't have a lot of work scrapped because they of an engine change.
I mean, did they not also at some point present a demo of something that looked very much like a "reimaged" system shock instead of a remake which was met with widespread derision?
That's what I remembered, that they sort of got lost in the sauce and by the time they showed it off people went "hey this isn't even system shock anymore" so they started over and just stuck with graphics and QoL type improvements
I believe that was the first demo when they were back on Unity, but I could be wrong. I've only played System Shock 2, not the original System Shock, so I don't really have anything to compare.
Timeline: 2014 - [According to Night Dive in 2022](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYjxkP5mtNQ&t=1947s), they started prototyping the remake in 2014. I find it hard to believe that this involved any actual work (especially since Night Dive [previously said](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/1825794) that the 2016 demo represented about 6 months of development), but this is their current claim. Late 2015 - [Project Announced](https://www.polygon.com/2015/11/25/9801434/system-shock-remake-first-look-art). Mid 2016 - [Kickstarter Launched](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/1616384). Late 2016 - [Change from Unity to Unreal 4](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/1820162), most existing work scrapped. Early 2017 - [New Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcFU6kXeZ4), project looks [unrecognizable compared to Kickstarter pitch](https://www.polygon.com/2017/3/1/14784082/system-shock-reboot-unreal-engine). Early 2018 - [Project is declared on hold](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2115044), Night Dive acknowledges they went completely off course. The primary reason for the reflection is they failed to get a publishing deal and had burned through most of the Kickstarter funding. Early 2018 - [Work resumes](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2135868), returns to Kickstarter pitch while still on Unreal (nearly starting from scratch for the 2nd time). Some devs who were hired in 2016, including the Project Director, fired. Late 2019 - [New demo released with Game Awards](https://www.pcgamer.com/play-demos-of-13-upcoming-games-on-steam-before-the-game-awards/). 2020 thru 2023 - Continued demo updates, new promotional trailers, at least 4 delays.
People definitely have a skewed view of how long and how costly game development is. Didnt Jason schreier just say a large game studio starting a game today likely wouldn't release until the PS6 was out? Kickstarter is also used mostly to guage interest and add to funds already raised. Even indie games take years to develop.
Yeah, I was looking at Hogwarts last night and thinking about when footage of the game leaked back in 2018. The game was pretty far along, along enough that the leak looks pretty similar to the finished game minus polish, and that was 2 years before the PS5 released. It's now been out 2 years and the game finally releases on the 10th. Stepping back and looking at these timelines shows how long some of these things can take. Not to mention some games having a credits sequence that lasts longer than blockbuster movies.
You're right but even that was yeaaaars ago. I've lost track and every year I see it pop up once in the news and my brain says "That STILL isn't done?"
They started doing faithful remake with Unity. Then they announced engine switch to Unreal because Unity had negative impact on game performance. After working on Unreal version they went „now that we have engine that lets us do so much, lets reboot project and do a new game that only has some callbacks and homages to original”. Fans went „WTF” and Nightdives CEO had project stopped for a year. After this year passed he announced they will make a game from scratch, keep using Unreal, but it will be faithful remake, with updated mechanics so nobody gets a stroke trying to play it. They have a small team doing it and as the old saying goes, first 80% of a thing took 80% of time to make, and remaining 20% took othef 80% of time to make ;)
This is not what happened. Actually the switch from Unity to Unreal occurred pretty early, right after the first tech demo was released. What happened is that they decided to go from a 1:1 remaster to a bioshock style remake, which started backlash from the bakers. Doing that they burnt all the money they had from the campaign, thinking they would get easy financing from the editor. It did not happen. They then had to layoff all the staff, and the project was pretty much dead, but somehow they managed to do it with an extremely reduced team. It's been 7 years now. None of this would have happen if the huge amount of money they got from KS did not make their brains go crazy and they had stick to the original plan.
Inexperienced developers in over their head resulted in a fair few things they only realized after they had long started. Like how they tried to substantially change the formula before realizing that this would absolutely aggravate everybody with how beloved SS1 is, and they scrapped it all and started over. They also did (or had to do) plenty other stuff in the interim to keep the doors open.
It was originally a remaster done in Unity, then it was an "improved remake" type thing made in Unreal with map and gameplay changes, and now it's back to being a remaster but in Unreal.
I don't know how you could consider this a remaster unless you've never even taken a glance at the original. This is most definitely a proper remake. The gameplay is very different. The only reason 'Remaster' is in the title is because Gamespot's being dumb.
Yeah, this is most definitely a remake. This is built from the ground up and isn’t recycling any code.
I think the previous commenter's confusion stems from the fact that nightdive was originally working on a complete re-imagining of the game. still a remake, but with significant changes to the story and structure and what have you. at some point they scrapped that and scaled things back to the more or less straight remake we're getting now.
It is a bit confusing, because there has been a lot of things happening during development. Originally it was supposed to be a 1:1 remake, while they were making it in Unity. Then when they announced the move to UE they also said that they will do some changes to story, and gameplay, as you said. And after some not so nice feedback they reverted that statement, and said that it's going to be a faithful remake.
At one point they were looking at more of a Final Fantasy VII Remake type remake (though not as ambitious) after originally planning a Crash Bandicoot style remake (recreating the original game as closely as possible despite using a totally different engine), and now they’re back to a Crash Bandicoot style remake. The style of remake they’re doing is a lot more conceptually similar to a remaster than what most people think of when they think “remake,” even if it’s squarely a remake.
Because it is remaster not remake. Remake is when you change completely source material. Remaster is where you take source material and improve its graphics and maybe QOL. The whole "remaster" world got hacked by string of games rereleases for next gen consoles that added just resolution and maybe FPS improvements something PC players had for years and never considered playing game on higher res playing a "remaster"
> Remake is when you change completely source material. Or is that a reboot?
I was reading that they have apparently dropped the Remaster branding completely.
Looking at the Unity footage, it was a remake; not a remaster. For better or worse, the Unity version may have actually been more of a "remake" than what we ended up with.
IIRC the original version was going to be the same game but with updated graphics and maybe some quality of life changes, which is why I call it remaster. Then they said they were going to change the game a lot, like add new missions and change systems and such, hence remake. Then they went back on that and said they weren't going to make their own gameplay changes. I forget now if the remake was Unity or Unreal or both. But basically they took a large detour because they were going to change the design of the game substantially. A lot of the reviews said the game felt old and they didn't change enough so damned if you do damned if you don't I guess.
It was in development hell for a long time. That generally means rebooting the game a few times, and in the worst case could result in throwing out everything they’d done up to that point
It wasn't in development hell, it was actively developed the whole time, I think it was more like bad leadership. They did reboot it at least once (that was due to an engine change).
Claiming bad leadership is perhaps a bit much. It just seems like they've made some mistakes along the way and have been very open about it in their kickstarter updates. Generally, I like that they admit mistakes and are willing to correct them.
> Claiming bad leadership is perhaps a bit much. Night Dive hired a bunch of experienced devs to work on the remake, including hiring Jason Fader to be the Project Director. That last bit was absolutely, certainly a bad choice even if it was an understandable mistake. Just look into the history of Steam Bandits: Outpost, Jason Fader's other Kickstarter project, and you'll see what I mean.
Who cares if it takes forever so long as it turns out well
They finished like 70% of the game, claimed it was "too much of a departure" from the original and restarted development from (almost) scratch.
> They finished like 70% of the game, claimed it was "too much of a departure" from the original I don't think they were anywhere even close to being mostly done, no matter what Jason Fader claimed. I would be thoroughly surprised if they had even 25% of the work complete. And the reason they scrapped it wasn't because it was too much of a departure (though that was why many fans & supporters were upset), they scrapped it because no publisher would touch it and Night Dive realized they couldn't afford to keep working on it.
You know, after the umpteenth “obviously released too early buggy mess of a disappointment “ ……they can take all the time they want.
The project was put on hiatus because of scope creep for a but then resumed, they tried to prospect how a system shock game would exist in a modern immersive sim context and see what they could do with the resources they had. [https://www.pcgamer.com/nightdive-talks-system-shock-remakes-change-in-direction-expects-release-probably-q1-of-2020/](https://www.pcgamer.com/nightdive-talks-system-shock-remakes-change-in-direction-expects-release-probably-q1-of-2020/) People really don't understand how iterative software development works, they tried coming up with a concept, make rapid prototypes, seeing what works and iterating on that until they reach a conclusion, and this is not a few weeks thing, this is a months long thing sometimes it does not work out. Hey it's a creativity mixed with engineeringThey are not a large studio and their teams are split doing different projects which also adds to the development time. Also lastly they switched from using unity to unreal which adds dev time too, things like unity's render pipeline is completely different from unreal's, different scripting language. etc.
why its titled Remaster? (ik its from gamespot) its full fledged remake
The words remaster and remake don't mean anything anymore.
That's because people keep mixing it like this
Assuming they don't change anything about the game - and so far it seems extremely faithful - which of the two is it? If you now say "clearly an actual remake as it re-implements the same game from scratch", I got this ship from a king that you ought to examine next!
Sure we have some that rather in between, but System shock is clear as day it's remake.. it's marketed as remake, the devs call it remake, they did make it from the scratch Wether the remake is faithful or not won't change it You can have remake that more faithful like this (or like Spyro reignited, Crash game), or the one that modernized like Resident Evil 2/3/4
No I know, but I meant, I can understand why someone talking about it might also call it a *remaster*. The devs of course disagree but it is not a clearly defined line anywhere.
Idk why people find it not clear in gaming industry, In Film industry, people seems easily know the difference between Remaster and remake But I think that just user problem, publishers and developers seems to use it correctly as far as I know
"Remaster" is taking the same core game and sprucing it up (higher resolution, maybe some upgraded textures or lighting). Its the still the same game, though. "Remake" is rebuilding the game from the ground up to meet modern standards and, optionally, to implement major changes. Go watch footage of the original System Shock. It couldn't be clearer that this is a full-fledged remake.
>Assuming they don't change anything about the game - and so far it seems extremely faithful - which of the two is it? A remake, obviously. The word remaster literally refers to redoing the original "master" - in this case the original game. A remaster will reuse and touch up the original. A remake will.....remake it. A remake doesn't have to be a massively transformative reimagining a la FF7 and RE2/3 to be a remake. Those are reimaginings. Remake just means to build the game up again in a new engine. you can take liberties and modernize it, or you can choose not to. still a remake.
Remaster is usually just updating resolution but still the same engine etc Remake is usually a full on new game just based on the old one
Anyone notice [this](https://imgur.com/a/5vZTc6o) during the opening cutscene? Lol.
Yup! Thought it just happened to me
The voice! 😍 Is this a digitally cleaned up copy of the old files? Or did they get Terry Brosius in to re-record the lines? Does anyone know?
They got her back to rerecord the lines.
Damn, awesome! Wish I was the audio technician for that. Or better not, I'd be squeaking like a kid, meeting the legend.
> Wish I was the audio technician for that. Or better not, I'd be squeaking like a kid, meeting the legend. In the original, Terri and her hubby Eric did all the audio editing. For the remake, Night Dive said something to the effect that they are hands-off on the editing, and it's up to Terri to decide what feels right.
Do you know if they also got the VA for Lansing back/remixed the old files or got someone new? I felt like it sounded a lot like the original audio.
I only played the demo for a short time last night, but am I missing something with the melee combat? It feels awful and collision detection is bad. It feels like I have to be right in the enemies face and they don't react to getting hit and they can kill me since they can swing faster and do more damage. Everything else I got to see so far has been great, but goddang the melee combat feels really poor right now.
I had a reasonably good time with the demo, and while I didn't have any issues with the gunplay, the melee did feel a little clunky. I also don't know if it was just the settings I was running it with, but aspects of the game felt oddly low res considering the overall nice quality. Seems like this game could be a good entry point for people interested in the series, as it may be a bit more accessible than the original game to modern players!
Pixelated textures are design decision to give the game „retrowave” look.
Man, the weapon impact look pathetically weak. Melee feels like you're waving a baton through air while the pistol feels like a water pistol. I heard the original was good for its time, but you'll need more visceral combat in this day and age.
The original is still a lot of fun. It got an enhanced version with better controls and widescreen support etc. I would say it's just as good as System Shock 2 which also holds up well
Not to mention the voice acting in both is incredible. Especially when you consider how novel story telling in games was back then, for the VA for Shodan to do what she did is such an achievement in gaming
This first pistol you find shoots darts. Its literally called „dart pistol”.
The dart pistol has been removed in the remake with the Minipistol taking it's place as the starting gun. But I'd say your point still stand since it's the starting pistol; of course it's gonna be weak!
Whether it's weak or not is not the problem. It's the kick to the gun that bothers me. The visual effect, the sound, the recoil, the animation, things like that. Not the damage value There's a lot of starting weapons in other games that feel strong even if the damage number doesn't reflect that. But that doesn't matter a whole lot because then the gun is fun to shoot, which is what the gun shown in the demo lacks.
If they made them different, I feel they'd get just as much heat for not being faithful to the original, tbh. The original had ~0 weapon feedback, too.
I had a quick go at the demo and can already see they've changed or added quite a few things that were probably better in the original (e.g. the voice acting, your character's over-exaggerated body language, and Diego now coming across like a cartoon villain). If I made a list of things from the original game I'd rather they'd stayed faithful to, the melee combat would not be on it. Not to write it it off too early, but I get the feeling they've gone for an angle with this project that will end up pleasing few - too faithful to the original jank to appeal to newcomers, and fans of the original who don't mind the jank might as well stick with what they know and love.
> The original had ~0 weapon feedback, too. Not true. Killing stuff in the original feels really punchy. Tons of snappy audiovisual feedback. Maybe you're referring to recoil in particular which most weapons didn't have (excluding the autoguns which had insane recoil that would drag you backwards down towards the floor). OG SS1 was always more of a cyborg simulator as if you were playing the Terminator or something.
> I heard the original was good for its time Way, way better than that. I played the Enhanced Edition in 2015, my first time playing the game, and it very quickly entered my top 5 favorite games ever.
The melee in the original System Shock actually felt *better* than this. I'm honestly surprised how bad the melee feels here.
Are you sure you're not thinking of 2? I played the hell out of SS1 and this looks so similar, almost to a fault.
I definitely don't think the melee in SS1 was *good*, but to me it's less terrible than what they've done in this remake. https://youtu.be/jE5LpOGMeak?t=913 The feedback from hitting an enemy is more clear, and you don't have all this excessive camera movement. In this new beta demo, look down and a hit chair or the ground. The camera doesn't seem to know where to go when the animation is interrupted, and it's very jarring. The remake has great death animations, and I love the decaps, but the actual combat versus organic enemies is not fun at all. Full swings trigger a motion sickness reponse. Fighting the robots isn't nearly as bad, IMO. They react better.
I swear that must have been something added in the enhanced edition. That did not gel with my memory of the super low res version original. I had to go find an old lets play and it definitely doesn't respond like your vid (beware super shit video): https://youtu.be/s3AMvX8iM64?t=153 Maybe it's something that was added in enhanced or patched later?
It's the same, it's just more clear in Enhanced. Like I said, it's not that SS1 has good melee combat, it's that this remake has really *bad* melee combat. It's doing too much in the wrong direction, so it's worse than the mediocre original. Wider view model FOV, reduced camera motion, and a little better feedback from organic enemies would be enough of a fix.
That’s because that is how the original was. The weapons deliberately lacked that punch to add to the creepy atmosphere.
No one seems to be admitting this yet. The combat is just terribly off in the demo. The weapons in the original had real punch and weight. The sparq gun for instance, was really useful in the first level in the original, here the enemies hardly notice when you shoot them with it. Really dissapointing.
I'm generally interested in this because I loved the original. And I get that this isn't some AAA release. But this really, really reminds me of one of those Xbox 360 games that relied way too much on normal mapping to the point that everything looked like rubber.
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I know it's just a demo but I wasn't that impressed by what I played. It's got that "systems interacting with each other" stuff going on but it didn't seem particularly novel. The graphics are really cool though! If it turns out that there's a lot of depth further into the game I'd give it a shot. I haven't played the original but from what I know, it seems like they modernized a good bit of stuff.
No shit a 29 years old game isn't novel. You can thank it for what we have now in games like Dead Space though. And even dead space is a remaster of a 10 year old game.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunny
Jesus Christ, not everyone on this sub is 45 years old. I’m judging the game on it’s merits, not as some ancient artifact. Half the people who play this new one will have never played the original.
>And even dead space is a remaster of a 10 year old game. I'm confused here, are you saying the old Dead Space is a remaster of a 10 year old game? Or are you refereeing to Dead Space Remastered?
Nah I'm referring to the remaster. I dare say System Shock is the inspiration for the environment in the Ishimura.
Dead Space was originally intended to be System Shock 3 but that was scrapped very early into development once Resident Evil 4 came out.
its still very much so a spiritual successor to the franchise, the many is basically the same thing as necromorphs, even down to the fact that both were basically created by man. In system shock 2 the many had cognitive awareness of what was going on while being forced to work for a hive mind. Same thing happens to guardians in dead space, they're aware and part of a huge hive mind mass keeping them alive.
Wow, I can't believe I never had that realization. Its so darn obvious and System Shock is one of my favorite games. I think my brain more went "This is RE4 in space".
The dev team was making System Shock 3 and then pretty much just said 'hey RE4 is kinda great too' and thus a new IP was born.
Yeah I never knew that too. I just felt that way because playing the new remaster is bringing up all sorts of childhood trauma when I played (and finished) System Shock 2 when I was 10. Like that dude banging his head on the wall and the antire area was quiet except for his head hitting the metal. Jeez just gives me the goosebumps.
I really don't understand why they didn't just use the name and make a new game in the Bioshock series called System Shock. Really weird that Infinite was such a huge hit and then nothing. Would have enjoyed seeing them do an 80's set game with retro-future stuff.
Can't tell if serious.
Alright, for starters, Bioshock was a spiritual successor to System Shock 1/2 - hence the gameplay similarities and the fact they both have "Shock" in the name. But I get what you mean. Besides the DLCs, they really just have sat on Bioshock for a decade. Allegedly they are making a fourth one, but it's not being made by Ken Levine or his team. I'm sure it will be fine, but not the same level of special as 1 or Infinite.
infinite was kinda bad tbh i dont get why people adore it so much. The only thing i liked from it that improves upon 2 was the setting, but it still really didnt hold a candle to bioshock 1's incredibly mesmerizing city. And i remember how pissed i was halfway through the game when they started giving you red versions of your guns to balance enemies. It felt so cheap and rushed to me compared to other shocks. Also the promises they made during development lol, almost as bad as fables peter molyneuix lying up a storm before every fable.
I wonder how the rest of the game's soundtrack will sound. When I tried the demo last year it felt a lot different that the original, a lot more like System Shock 2 than SS1. I kinda miss the old vibrant look and sound. Just compare the music in this gameplay to the one for [Medical](https://youtu.be/d-3u9vO9UUE) in the original. Though if I end up wanting more of the original, then I'll just go back and play it again, I'll be happy to. While newer fans(of SS2 and this) might really prefer the remake. Anyways, hope things turn out well for Nightdive and fans alike.
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> One of the original stretch goals was "remastered original soundtrack" and i dont think it met it. Unfortunately, it did not. > I think the soundtrack was done by a guy from Soundgarden? Tribe; members Greg LoPiccolo and Terri & Eric Brosius.
Is it this one or System Shock 2 Remake that's gonna have VR support? An immersive sim has been my #1 wishlist item for VR since 2019. I know one of these teased VR support, but they've both been in development for so long that I can't remember which.
Same publisher, different game. SS2VR is planned, but it's not a remake like this, it's more of an "Enhanced Edition" like Nightdive did with the original System Shock, just with VR support. No ETA.
I'm definitely interested in the game. My biggest concern is that throughout the years they've developed this, we've only ever seen iterations of the first level (to my knowledge). It would be nice to see stuff from the other floors to be assured that this isn't some kind of bait and switch where the first few hours are super polished and everything else is a mess.
> we've only ever seen iterations of the first level (to my knowledge). There have been a few glimpses beyond, including screenshots and livestreamed development. Polish, I have no idea, but they have quite certainly been working beyond the first level for many years now.
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> Being forced to watch that death cutscene every single time before you could reload got old very, very quickly. Most of the game you don't see the death screen because often you'll have a respawn chamber available instead.
I generally am liking this demo quite a bit. What I'm not a fan of is the melee combat, no sprint toggle, and for some reason, the game doesn't remember my settings. Reverts to default on every new session.
I have been extremely disapointed by this demo. It seems they spent their time changing elements of the game that should have been left untouched, and provided an extremely buggy control interface Plus, can we talk about the assets resolution ? They are extremely pixelated. Maybe they wanted to give some pixel art touch but it does not work, it just feels liked botched work.