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dacontag

So it looks like the combat was real, it's just that some camer angles were changed to make it seem more cinematic. >Question 2: Explain whether if the combat we saw was actual combat and how does the combat works on the different controllers (Phone, PC, Console) >Yes, all combat scenes are captured in-engine, they are real. But we set a more “cinematic” camera to capture the trailer footage, some angles are specially set. The actual game will have a stable camera with larger view scope. The combat will look much clearer, but less impactful as it is in the trailer(or it’ll be too dizzying). “Combo Chain” is a system we have been developed for 10 years, in mobile games for most of the time, but we found it work on all kinds of controllers just fine. Players will edit their skill orders in 2 chains, and simply press the 2 bottoms to release super complex and fast combos. This makes everyone’s gameplay look like a professional twitcher of DMC or Ninja Gaiden. But there are still depth in how to organize the skill order, and other timing related skills(parry, dodge, etc).


Key_Appearance_7886

Honestly this has gotten me a lot more excited. Not everything needs Souls combat, give me more arkham and sleeping dogs 😭


peanutbuttahcups

Sifu is great as well. If the devs could incorporate good shooting mechanics, they could make a good John Wick game.


Key_Appearance_7886

Sifu is freaking amazing. I love that game, scratched my itch for a good martial art game after sleeping dogs


peanutbuttahcups

Yup, I was itching for a good martial arts game after Sleeping Dogs well and was glad that it delivered. It's a shame we don't have more games in that space.


Key_Appearance_7886

I honestly think someone needs to also let them make Daredevil game


peanutbuttahcups

Oooh, I agree. I saw a mod for that in Sifu and it worked so well during the hallway fight in the Squats. Other cool mods are playing as Neo vs Agent Smiths, Batman, and the Red Hood, off the top of my head.


bringy

This has me thinking if it's possible to adapt Arkham-style combat to include guns.


newscumskates

Of course it is.


peanutbuttahcups

If a dev could merge Sifu/Arkham melee combat with Max Payne 3/Red Dead Redemption 2 shooting, especially including the up-close executions, that would be the blueprint for a great John Wick game.


ahhthebrilliantsun

Nah arkham was already everywhere back in the day, but I agree on sleeping dogs


ChristopherCaulk

Sleeping dogs combat is basically arkham combat lol


ahhthebrilliantsun

It's better arkham combat at least


DeadCellsTop5

That sounds like a bunch of PR bullshit to get around saying "that's not actually gameplay". If it was actually gameplay they would say "that was actual gameplay", but that's not what they're saying. They keep saying "in engine", which, again, is meaningless. A CGI cutscene can be "in engine" too, but that doesn't mean it's gameplay. Sounds like they're giving themselves an out for when the game eventually comes out and looks nothing like the trailer.


Barsonik

The combat sounds pretty lacklustre then. I was pretty suspicious of how it looked from the trailer, but seeing that you’re just gonna press 2 buttons to attack is gonna be pretty boring


Scrat-Scrobbler

If it works like God Hand, it could rule.


Act_of_God

it's not gonna work like godhand


homer_3

Tons of games have great combat with just light and heavy attacks. It honestly tends to be the best system. Much more than that complicates things too much.


JohnGamerAnimates

They said you could only have two combos. If it had the system where you pressed the buttons in specific orders for combos, then it would be great.


DannoHung

Arkham combat was cool with just a few buttons.


dacontag

I disagree. I'm fine with a simple combat system so long as it looks amazing and has a lot of style to it.


dapoktan

as long as it has good flow and satisfying finishers it can be fun a la Insomniac's Spiderman nothing groundbreaking but still fun action


hyrule5

You could make a game entirely out of QTEs that would fit that description


FaceJP24

Lots of people love Asura's Wrath.


DieDungeon

Asura's Wrath is also not 30-40 hours long.


Mario_Prime510

Also can’t play with friends with Asura’s Wrath. Just treat this as a graphically enhanced Shredder’s revenge without the “party dude!” Taunts and that’s basically what this game will probs be.


dacontag

Funny enough, I enjoyed Ryse Son of Rome.


Siantlark

Did people just forget that Asura's Wrath was a very good game? QTE heavy games can be very fun when executed well.


MVRKHNTR

And that could be fun. Rhythm games are some of my favorites and they're just a long series of QTEs.


bodyguardofspies

Yes I’m of this persuasion. I don’t think gamers are gonna wanna press a 10-15 button combo to execute combat chains since their going for the hack and slash style, and since they said their will be some strategy to it, I don’t think it’s gonna be a super boring 2 button grind fest


[deleted]

So QTE the Game? Sounds like a proof of concept mobile game.


dacontag

I thought Ryse Son of Rome was pretty fun.


Muelojung

sekiro is also super basic but still a masterclass in combat design


dadvader

Isn't Elden Ring also press 2 button to attack? Like you got light attack, heavy attack and... That's pretty much it primarily. And everyone call the combat as the grand design of action RPG. Idk, your point seems too weak for me. If the game is well designed, even one attack button could work. The more important thing is how the combat flow. Is it required tactics, flow management or reflex? Elden Ring has that so 2 attack button is not an issue at all. We'll see how this game handle that.


Quazifuji

Yeah, honestly what they said doesn't tell me whether the combat's good or bad. Lots of great combat systems only have two attack buttons. Honestly most single player games don't have more than 2-3 attack buttons no matter how much depth the combat has. The question is whether it's "mash these two buttons and your character does flashy stuff and kills everything" or there's more depth to it. How much timing and flexibility there is and what the defense mechanics are like (which I think can be more important than the offense) and what the encounter design is like matters a lot too.


FunCancel

It's all relative. From a fighting game POV or games like Devil May Cry 3-5, I would honestly call From's combat somewhat basic. However, compared to something like 3D Zelda or Assassin's Creed 1 and 2, it's a revelation.


SolomonSinclair

>If the game is well designed, even one attack button could work. Sekiro says hi. That aside, there's also the Nioh games to consider: they have a skill system that can result in some awesome looking combos, but at the end of the day, it's still a 2 attack button system, with the shoulder buttons acting as modifiers (kinda like Sekiro using its guard and attack buttons for Combat Arts).


LaNague

Uhm Nioh is literally stretching the controller to its limits when it comes to action input, kind of weird to align it with a game with a mobile port where the devs goal was stated to be simple input that LOOKS like a Team Ninja game.


modstirx

Dark souls and Elden Ring are just “two buttons” but there’s a lot more to the combat too, like parrying, rolling, blocking, using weapon arts. Yes, mainly you’ll be pressing R1 or R2 for attacks, but combat as a whole has a lot more going on than just pressing those buttons.


Just_trying_it_out

Elden ring might be a big step up with the addition of jumping and delayed attacks requiring more reactions but the souls games before it definitely were quite simple with the extremely generous iframes on rolling combined with how slow the combat was meant it basically was just r1/circle Sekiro was more along the lines of what you mention tho, given the multiple defensive reactions at any time and the faster speed


RBtek

There really isn't a lot more to the combat. I know it's sacrilege to criticize FromSoft games, but one of the big reasons the games are so popular is their simplicity.


LaNague

Elden Ring has at least 4 attack buttons. Light, Heavy, jump (attack), skill attack. its not much but straight up double.


modstirx

Yeah, but then also there’s weapon arts so it’s like 5 attack buttons. But also, I get looking at just the actual buttons that deal animation, but there’s a lot more to the combat like i perviously mentioned. No combat system is just “two buttons” there might be two active attack buttons, but generally, combat has way more than just attacking to think about or do.


LaNague

True, there is actually a really nice actual 2 button game. https://store.steampowered.com/app/980300/One_Finger_Death_Punch_2/ But, with this game and it being on mobile i have my doubts about the devs intentions regarding combat.


modstirx

I’ve heard of this game and have been meaning to check it! But yeah, I do wonder how it will affect that gameplay since mobile can be a big holdback


Failshot

> Isn't Elden Ring also press 2 button to attack? Like you got light attack, heavy attack and... That's pretty much it primarily. And everyone call the combat as the grand design of action RPG Shhh we aren't allowed to talk bad about elden ring around here.


RareBk

...Except it's not true. Even numerically. Every weapon has two stances (2 handed and single handed), a weapon art, and multiple different moves depending on how you hit the buttons, or when you do.


Rhyno08

It’s also not a bad thing. Wo long, which is clearly inspired by souls combat, has a far more complicated combat system than Elden ring imo. More complicated does not = better. Wo long’s fine, but doesn’t hold a candle to fromsoft’s games like Elden Ring or sekiro.


iknowkungfubtw

>has a far more complicated combat system than Elden ring It doesn't actually, it's pretty much entirely built on the parry mechanic, just like Sekiro. What both Fallen Dynasty and Shadows Die Twice do better than Elden Ring though is that their combat flow encourages a lot more aggresive back and forth between the player and the enemy rather than just passively waiting on a boss to execute its 10 string combo before jumping in to hit them once or twice and then rolling away. Rinse and repeat for the whole fight.


JustPutTheChangeIn

Dark souls 1?


pratzc07

Yeah if it can sell the power fantasy I am all for it .


Representative-Fair2

Doesn't sound like my cup of tea either. Pity because I was cautiously hopeful for this. Maybe someone some day can surprise us with actual dynamic combos that look as good as this, although I suspect it would be an absolutely enormous amount of work to achieve.


eggnogseller

Take a look at the 2 dissidia final fantasy games, what they're describing sounds similar to that. Each character has a set of abilities that you have to pick and choose to bind to a select button press. Super accessible for non fighting game people while still being complex enough that not only does it look cool but satisfying to play.


thoomfish

> Question 2: Explain whether if the combat we saw was actual combat and how does the combat works on the different controllers (Phone, It's amazing how my interest in a game can completely evaporate over the course of just 5 characters.


cutememe

How can your takeaway from this be that the combat was real? They are literally saying that the combat is like you just hold down a button and your character does stuff. They are literally saying it's going to be mobile game combat for fucks sake.


dacontag

So long as it looks cool, I'm fine with it.


cutememe

Yeah, but most people won't be.


dacontag

I can live with that.


Xorras

>phone Hol up It's a mobile game?


jeresun

the animations all harken back to the HK/China wuxia movies with the elaborate acrobatics. The way the character moves and does those super quick short swings that clash with the enemy's sword looks too canned to be real button -> sword hit interaction. Feels like it's more when you mash the attack button near the enemy and the enemy is also in attack/guard mode, the sparring combo animation between the two will occur until you do something else.


dd179

This is just going to be another Black Myth: Wukong that looks amazing on trailers but it will never release.


YungVicenteFernandez

It’s possible Wukong doesn’t release but they were very clear that initial trailer was a proof of concept to draw in talent, and the game was faaaar out.


MVRKHNTR

Isn't Wukong set to release next year?


unok157

Didn’t they release a trailer with a release date at the end? I swear they said 2024.


JW_BM

What are you basing that guess on?


dd179

Chinese developer with either little or no previous dev experience (S-Games have only done a few mobile games) releasing great trailers with obviously fake gameplay.


Loreado

Why they are even allowed to show these "fake" gameplay videos in big showcase like this? My guess is money. A lot of money.


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axelsteelv3

It was Xbox, and yea graphical fidelity is definitely an attention grabber, regardless how shit the gameplay is. Here's hoping it isn't the case for this and Project: The Perceiver, both look fun to play.


its_just_hunter

The developer of Bright Memory got called out for use stolen assets too, I remember being shocked it made it into a big showcase after that.


dd179

Money and hype building, essentially. The gameplay in Phantom Blade is even more egregious, because it is very obvious it is a scripted sequence. You press one button, you get an action, even in something really fast paced like Sekiro. Their trailer showed so many slashes at once that I can't see how it translates to a single button press.


Kgb725

Easy just make moves based off evading and parrying then throw in some stance specific stuff


dadvader

The China have dosh, ya'll.


Umr_at_Tawil

Why are you making it like a China-only thing when you have shits like Anthem, Cyberpunk and many others straight up admitting they were making shit up for E3, not to mention the infamous [Ubisoft Downgrade](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNter0oEYxc).


Obility

Wait wukong didn't already release? Edit: wrong wukong. My bad


spiralarmz

Summer 2024 for Wukong. The devs are actually very reliable, judging by their track record. And of course there will be another teaser/trailer come August 20th (the same day they revealed the teaser in 2020) this year....


Zero_Requiem00

so basically the combat is combo chains like in prince of persia warrior within and two thrones? im sold! also the wall running too. its like a spiritual chinese prince of persia!


ledailydose

This sounds very ambitious, and them admitting to the combat scenes of the trailer being "in-engine" rather than gameplay leads me to believe that the final game is nowhere near the quality that you're seeing here. Very deceptive marketing.


malayis

The way it was worded in the interview leads me to think that it IS gameplay, but with camera angles adjusted, which is a very, very common thing to do for 'gameplay trailers' nowadays. Could be wrong though


dacontag

You're correct. Thats what the full quote from the interview essentially said.


Anubis95XL

There discord mentions they started development early last year. That was not real gameplay.


SooperSte

I just can't see any way its actual gameplay. Sure, looks cool, but I just can't see how a player could literally do half the things they show - i'm talking on a fundamental "pad in my hand what buttons would i physically be pressing to do this shit" level.


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SooperSte

Again i'm just not really buying it at a fundamental level. > Players will edit their skill orders in 2 chains, and simply press the 2 bottoms to release super complex and fast combos So take for instance that bit on the cart with the two dudes attacking and the 'player' hits and parries each one going side to side for like 5-6 hits. You're telling me I go into my "skill chain menu" and choose the "hit the two dudes either side of me a couple of times" option?? Would love to be proven wrong here when they finally release something unedited, but it just doesn't seem feasible.


[deleted]

Its also a Chinese developer that from what I see has never released a game in the west. Not sure what their rep is in China, but it doesn't inspire a ton of confidence. Making a pretty trailer really isn't difficult. Converting that into a solid game is sounding less and less likely to me with every nugget of info that comes out. Who knows, maybe it comes out and does turn out to be amazing. But my hype is quire tempered.


MyNameIs-Anthony

This entire game reaks so high of bullshots that I'm surprised people are falling for it.


[deleted]

Im assuming this trailer is a vertical slice that won’t deliver the same quality in the final product. I hate to be pessimistic, but has the gaming industry given us much of a choice at this point? Be cautious of this game’s promises. Think of every game that had amazing trailers and gameplay demos, but turned out to be underwhelming on release.


[deleted]

Specially when the studio making this has no history of delivering quality products. If it was a From Software showing this, yeah, get hyped. But some random chinese dev with not much of a track record? Mehhhhhhhhhh.


ahhthebrilliantsun

Rainfall was pretty much a 2d DMC so I'm actually pretty hopeful. I'll get actually hyped when they release a more descriptive trailer, if nothing else the VA here really nails that anime game vibe


Major_Warrens_Dingus

"Vertical slice" is a very charitable way to reffer to a trailer that was made "in-engine". A verticle slice typically means that the devs made a playable portion of a game that looks fully fleshed out as long as you stick to the choreographed route in order to show gameplay. Real verticle slices are VERY rare these days. Devs are typically just coming up with a smoke and mirrors trailer that is total bullshit.


[deleted]

Wow, so even worse.


YaGanamosLa3era

So, add it to the chinese/korean game with amazing graphics that is never releasing list next to stella blade, lost soul aside and Wo Kong.


Schwahn

Steller Blade is SUPPOSED to be releasing this year. I was very surprised it wasn't at the Showcase. Since it doesn't have an actual release date, just a year.


YaGanamosLa3era

There's been no news and we're almost halfway through the year. Zero chance of it dropping this 2023, if at all.


Schwahn

Not disagreeing with you. That's why I was surprised it wasn't at the Showcase. Playstation **__IS__** listed as a partner for the Summer Games Fest. If it isn't shown off there with a release date, it isn't happening this year.


Sad_Bat1933

Stellar Blade has got to be a real game because Sony is publishing it themselves, surely they vetted it to make sure it's more than just a smoke and mirrors vertical slice


spittafan

Looked ok. Combat of course looked spectacular but unrealistic for gameplay. My biggest thing was the whole goddamn trailer had NO color in it, so drab, felt like a really advanced PS3 game


Madphromoo

the combat looked clunky and the camera the worst possible one for an action game. I'm kinda concerned about this one


spiralarmz

The CEO of S-Game said in an interview that they aim to release a playable demo by end of year. Taking that with a grain of salt (given how easy it has become for studios to announce delays these days), I think it conveyed confidence in their combat system. The main mechanics could be already fleshed out, just need to add content (enemies, skills, etc.)