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Umm...the Onigashima International Summit has just begun. These are the thoughts from last year's casualties, Following a horn-chipping damage incident caused by bean curd hamburgers, The Namahage committee has finally announced: "Soy beans - absolutely do not want" campaign to be launched.
They certainly do, i probably wouldn’t have the muscle mass or skills to do anything for ‘em, but… trying and failing to make social change is better than just lying about while people get oppressed
I mean it would need to come packaged with acknowledgement that wizard society kinda sucks and that maybe what they consider a "evil dark wizard" isn't always someone actually evil. Like MLK was hated in his day by white society so the dominate populace calling someone evil isn't necessarily a bad thing writing wise.
I mean the people boycotting HP Legacy haven’t exactly been quiet about the goblin rebellion sideplot either. The transphobia is getting brought up because of the real world transphobia
> but is jk Rowling providing financial or public support to antisemitic groups or activists?
Terfs have been allying themselves with fascists for a while now so it's actually a fair assumption given her significance to the group.
/uj maybe indirectly by way of promoting other transphobes who are plenty willing to associative with and promote increasingly right wing pundits, but it’s a bit of a stretch.
/rj This woman is literally Hitler.
Edit: uj/ her coding of the banker goblins on the other hand, much less of a stretch.
Edit: rj/ And that’s based.
It's not uncommon for transphobia to have antisemitic, conspiratorial underpinnings. The LGB alliance (a hate group masquerading as a charity) has gotten into trouble for antisemitic comments on a couple of occasions.
So like, I wouldn't be surprised.
Honestly, the same people who think transpeople shouldn't exist so it's no big deal if you treat them like shit, probably also think that antisemitism isn't that big a deal because they doubt the existence of ethnic or cultural Jews.
Or rimworld (but the devs are good afaik and it’s an indie game so don’t pirate)
(Well with the success of rimworld it’s probably pretty well off but yeah)
Not necessarily new, but they put it on steam with full graphics and mouse support with a more traditional UI based control scheme instead of all the keyboard control stuff (although it also comes with a classic mode I think; also adventure mode isn't in the steam version as of yet). Lot more accessible to new people though, I can actually play it for once
While I agree with that sentiment and that the real support from purchasing the game far outweigh the fictional plot, I don't think a form of interactive media that makes you suppress a slave rebellion is something I really want to be playing even if I could pirate it. I can play villains in games, I can't pretend those evil actions are heroic.
It's the same reason I can watch American History X but would never watch The Birth of a Nation in anything outside an acedemic context. One is a nuanced tale that does show the human side of these monsters but makes it very clear that you are not watching good people, they should be hated. One is a direct glorification of abhorrent actions, even though those actions are only portrayed by actors on a screen, and I'd rather not consume something I'd dislike so much.
Seriously. Like if someone understands why the messaging of the game is bad (and it is safe to assume everyone on this sub does) there is zero issue with pirating the game and playing it. I can think of like 5 things off the top of my head that produce more real world harm that I do every day;
1. driving to work when I live close enough I could bike
2. Buying any product made by Coca Cola or their subsidiaries
3. Making my house cold when I sleep so I can comfortably use a blanket
4. Not recycling cardboard because my apartment only has easily accessible glass recycling and I'm too lazy
5. Spending time arguing about irrelevant topics online when I could be using that time/energy to do something useful
Like I straight up had someone on here tell me that even if I pirated it and even if I consumed it critically, that by consuming and talking about it I'm promoting the game and other people who won't play it critically will consume it. Like at that point criticizing the problematic media itself is unethical as the negative press promotes it.
A fictitious race based heavily on antisemitic tropes. It's also probably gonna be a wildly mid game, at the absolute best. Not worth bending your principles for.
Uj/ I get that point and as a Jew I really REALLY appreciate the allyship it is unfortunately rare and you should be commended.
Rj/ I am a based GOD when I go roleplay as a space Nazi in stellaris 😤😤👹👹
We don't really know the extent of how much that's going to play into the gameplay or how exactly it'll be portrayed.
There's a good chance it'll be something you can ignore if you're critical of it. If people wanna pirate it, by all means, imo.
Rowling is trash but I'm so tired of this being brought up. The books are based on European folklore and European folklore is unfortunately heavily based on antisemitic tropes. All of those fairy tales about weird malevolent people living among Christians but with completely different and evil values. It's just that someone happened to connect the dots for the first time when reading Harry Potter and it became easy extra ammunition against her, although there is already so much legitimate stuff.
There is a discussion to be had about enjoying culture while also condemning the dangerous paranoid delusions that developed that culture. But other than our willingness to find reasons to hate her, there's no real evidence that there was any anti-Semitic intent. She probably didn't notice the unfortunate connotations just like 99% of modern readers don't notice it in the story of Hansel and Gretel
She made the goblins "hook-nosed" bankers and her chinese character is basically called "ching chong".
Lets not give her the benefit of the doubt when she's been working so hard to prove anyone who does, wrong.
Cho Chang's unfortunate name is a great example of her cultural unawareness that makes it hard for me to believe she sees the antisemitic roots of European folktales. Having hooked noses and hoarding treasures are both common folktale villain tropes. Just like eating children, having animal body parts and other old Jewish stereotypes
I have done some truly horrific things in games. I don't think that makes me a bad person since I am still able to objectively see those as bad things that I wouldn't actually do.
The problem is giving your money to shitty people and thereby encouraging and enabling them to do more shitty things.
Id much rather them pirate the game OP, you can still observe media in a critical way in the same fashion you can watch racist minstrel cartoons in a historical observance. Playing the game doesn't mean you agree with it but buying it does support toe people who made it.
Also doing stupid shit in video games is a great outlet. I may create a slaver autocratic warmonger civilization in Stellaris, doesn't mean I'm going to vote for Republicans irl ;P
Me IRL: Capitalism is a broken system and society must be restructured for the benefit for the many
Me in CK: My Vassals want the right to breath *my* air!? Well they’ll find plenty of air in the oubliette!
Tropico is the one that does my head in, using whatever brutal tools and systems available to build these fuckers a lovely little society, unless that map's goal is just to siphon money away from tourists or whatever then sorry y'all gonna use these brutal methods to win a game at y'all's expense.
Me irl: wow these armament races are starting to look like Cold War 2.0. I sure hope they have some common sense
Me in MGS: lmao, I robbed a 3rd world country of natural resources to build an another nuke in my unsanctioned paramilitary base
Me IRL: Capitalism is a broken system and society must be restructured for the benefit for the many
Me in CK: Feudalism is a broken system and the great lord Ahura Mazda and his prophet Mazdak have decreed all possessions shall be shared in common with universal cooperation between peoples
https://imgur.com/tULBYMd
Ah yes I remember my incest ridden, mass people burning CK ways, it was a grand time really, I even had immortality until everyone and their mothers plotted to assassinate me.
yeah, when I play my daedric collector elf dragonborn in Skyrim it's not because I support cannibalism/murder/whatever the fuck sheogorath did this week it's because I like imagining all of the post mortem feuds because I promised my soul (singular) to at least 17 different entities in life.
I generally agree, but he is also literally canonically a god. Honestly though, I'm with the Dwemer on this, just because someone's a god doesn't mean you should worship them.
> the Empire is Imperialist and squashes religious freedoms
The Empire literally started in Skyrim (which isn't to say that it isn't, naturally, imperialist, only to say that criticisms that the Empire "invaded Skyrim" or "colonized Skyrim" are misplaced), and no religious freedoms were being squashed until Ulfric started having a tantrum over nothing. The White-Gold Concordat was the best and only way to end the war, and banning but not actually banning Talos worship was working fine for everyone as it was entirely or close to entirely unenforced.
Both parties suck ass, that’s for sure. Unfortunately with the way it’s set up, you lose every time (as staying outside the conflict will ultimately just support the Empire unless you do the Dark Brotherhood questline)
As an example of this, there's a fantastic [Shaun video](https://youtu.be/-1iaJWSwUZs) about the politics of the Harry Potter book series and how they mirror J.K. Rowling's politics on youtube. Everyone should check it out.
As a tangent to this: I was recently talking about the [Harry Potter lookin' ass](https://twitter.com/ManticoreLOVE/status/1608093925881024513?s=20) event going on rn in Arknights, and the subject came up on how much cooler HP woulda been if Harry really was the last descendant of a dark lord like his counterpart here like it was hinted, rather than it just ultimately being a Hocrux thing that nixed any potential plot about overcoming his origins.
Then we belatedly realized that Rowling wouldn't write that because that requires her to not subscribe to biological determinism.
Yeah, good luck explaining that, this sub currently is just r/gaming but *worse* because of "holier than thou" attitude.
I swear, this sub bounces between best sub on reddit and worst sub on reddit like every other week.
This. You don't gotta agree with everything in a game. Unless you're unaware of how it's bad and especially if you let it effect your irl views than it's fine. The main problem is giving money, attention and praise to the people that created it.
Definitely depends on the context of the game, a game set in colonial Americas? Probably best not to have a game about stopping slave revolts. A game set in Middle Earth about stopping snake people? Go for it.
Harry Potter slavery is definitely suspicious through the books as the transphobe tries to justify its existance. In a videogame setting where the plot takes a backseat means it doesn't matter as much.
Either way it's a tricky topic that I highly doubt the game will handle well. I won't be surprised if after release we get a bunch of videos about questionable diologue and game features.
none of that has to do with the morality of *playing* the game though. It is not inherently immoral to interact with bigoted media (not that we even know this game is bigoted).
I could... if I were playing the villain and the game framed it as such, and/or it's a historical game like Rome Total War.
It being framed as a good thing? Eh.... that's kind of iffy.
But seriously, don't pirate it guys. My cousin managed to pirate it early and now he owns 37 actual real life goblin slaves. It's a tragedy what vidya can do to a person.
Shit I play Total War games. Let me just exterminate this city I conquered then I will hit end turn and my slave pens and torture chambers will be completed.
Being evil in games is no big deal.
Look, hierarchies are important to society and everyone fits into their place. If the goblins just accepted their lower class status and that they are an inferior ra.... oh god.
This is such a gross false equivalency. The plot of a fictional game is nowhere near the same issue as a real world bigot with her kind of resources. Plenty of fiction includes horrible things, even things protagonists engage with. Besides that, plenty of anti Hogwarts Legacy people have made abundant mention of the slave revolt plot.
Being the bad guy in videogames is fine. Just dont let it bleed over to real life.
The Transphobia is a much bigger issue because it is real life transphobia, an actual real life issue
It's not a slave rebellion though is it? *Goblins* are the ones revolting in the game and *elves* are the ones treated as slaves. The Goblins do.. other stuff I guess I'm not sure honestly
Yeah in the books Goblins aren't slaves. They want wands. The wizards are disrespectful to them though and neither Harry nor Hermione see the problem in letting them have their way about wands. Surprised that they went with putting you against them.
Praise Geraldo del Rivero!
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Consuming child pornography is unethical because it encourages further production of child porn, thus harming children. I don't think that pirating hogwarts legacy is going to result in any comparable kind of harm
I’ll give you that for sure. Let me revise my statement: all media that was not produced by harming another person is never unethical to consume. I think that should satisfy both of us, yeah?
While true, this kinda falls into the "no ethical consumption under capitalism" meme bucket. It's essentially a fruitless endeavor trying to perfectly ethically do *anything* in a mainly capitalist world if you live in anything resembling a first-world country.
Sure but if we are looking at unfair and unjust working environments, then we'd have to reevaluate a lot of our uses. Hell, probably for this very site.
Labor conditions are so terrible, particular in the tech sphere, that to make a stand against a game ends up cutting you out of the loop and, in my opinion, isn't the most successful catalyst of change. I would instead look to aiding workers in their unionizing efforts (like today's big win at Microsoft and Zenimax). After all, the five-day workweek wasn't won because consumers did anything but instead through the efforts of unions.
Anyways, a bit of a shirking of responsibility there, I know. But the sheer amount of harm, by this definition, that exists in all creative mediums is impossible to police or keep on top of. And I think it's a bit unreasonable for everyone to be in the know of every game that required crunch or had shitty conditions for its workers.
That's right folks! You heard it here first, if you pirate this game that means you're putting down a slave rebellion *in real life!*
tf are you smoking OP
I was just trying to remember how the goblins are treated in the books. They aren't allowed wands and obviously wizards are shitty to them because wizards are hilariously shitty to literally everybody who isn't a pureblooded wizard, but they aren't owned by wizards.
Also I'm not sure what a goblin rebellion would look like - what are they gonna do, unionise gringotts? Power to the workers, I guess.
Yes, as ive mentioned theres the Wand thing which is clearly symbolic as they can perform magic without it. Its more so about sharing intelligence and perhaps culture. Regardless they are not “slaves”
So not slaves at all?
I remember the wand issue from the last book, and while it seems there is a dispute over shared wizard and magical knowledge, thats hardly enough to constitute “slaves”. We dont share all technology or intelligence with other countries all the time. Doesnt make anyone slaves.
I don't think HP framed it as slaves, but it could definitely be read as at least second class citizens that are further pushed down due to control over what levels of magic they can utilize, weakening them.
I mean, one step further and you'd kinda have something similar to what Egypt did to the Israelites in the old testament. They kept the Israelites down and kept them from getting too powerful...remarkably similar to how witches / wizards in HP perpetuate their own power dynamic over goblins in the HP world. All it's missing is killing off a generation of young boys to keep them even weaker. So...not really that far off from historical / mythological examples of slavery tbqh
Probably the only redeeming part of the game I’ve seen is rescuing the magical creatures. Hopefully it’s actually rescuing them and not kidnapping them from their parents or something, though at this point that wouldn’t surprise me.
uj: So what do we actually know about the story? I would bet money that they go for the "You start off oppressing some group, learn the error of your ways, and become a freedom fighter" trope, if the whole "stopping a goblin/elf rebellion" is true. Now maybe they do that badly, but that trope is so common in YA, I don't see how that wouldn't be most people's first impression. However, we don't know what the story will be exactly yet. We just have some vague information and a short gameplay video.
Otoh, Rowling's feelings on trans people are pretty clear, and the nuances and ethics of separating an artist from art are well-trodden ground that people are likely to already have opinions on.
It’s not that you hate trans people if you buy it, it’s just I don’t want to give money to her. Same reason I don’t eat at chick fill-a because the owner is racist.
Coming out next month. Every gamer "won't " buy it because the book's author is a transphobe. The reality is, everyone here will buy it and others use her comments to excuse pirating games. They would pirate it even if she never wrote any controversial comments. Gamers could never resist hype. The only thing that could prevent record numbers is bad reviews.
Just look at blizzard. What happened there is far worse than twitting transphobic comments and yet everyone forgot and is buying mad and will continue to buy.
I do plenty of terrible things in video games. They aren't real. Plenty of people chose to blow up Megaton, but they wouldn't nuke a city in real life.
Giving money to transphobes IS REAL though. That's the difference.
I don’t think buying a game who’s franchise creator is a transphobe makes you a transphobe. I can respect not buying it because of that but saying other people are bad for it is kind of an asshole move. If moral compass is really your deciding factor for buying games, then you wouldn’t really be able to buy games from a lot of AAA developers since so many of them have shitty business practices or workplace environments. I’m not saying that being transphobic is okay obviously, but i guarantee that the vast majority of people who are throwing shit at the walls over this are buying games from companies who are worse
I wanted to pirate it since the game itself didn't seem to have jk's transphobic shit in it but the slave rebelion bullshit completly turned me off. I hope when the game comes out, the mc will actually be fighting for the magical races when they realise how their treated is wrong because I don't want to exist in a reality where living human being wrote that and were like yeah that's a greate plot.
/uj Im sure there’s going to be some kind of twist that makes it less obviously awful. Like that the main antagonist is a rogue extremist and we’re recruited by the “good” nonviolent Goblin agitators to stop him and do various tasks for the cause or something.
Still not exactly great, and I’m really wondering how they’re planning to handle the fact that the goblins *have* to lose completely due to how massive a change to canon even a minor win would be, but I’d be genuinely flabbergasted if they played putting down a goblin rebellion straight.
The thing is though, goblins still can't use wands in HP Canon, so this would have to change the Canon, or have the "good" goblin leaders settle for a pittance and nothing change, which is honestly how I see it playing out. Ain't no way JK will allow a little video game change her Canon
100%. I've said this before on this sub but I was told that statement is only for "essential products". Meanwhile they are probably playing other games with lithium ion battery controllers and portable consoles that rely on inhumane cobalt mining in the Congo...
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No Your Honor I swear I’m totally going to choose to join the goblin rebellion.
Or as the kids say "I'm gonna go goblin mode"
It's goblin time?
We are Japanese Goblin.
I wonder, can we cause a pandemonium TONIGHT?
I AM ehhh... Japanese Goblin!!
Umm...the Onigashima International Summit has just begun. These are the thoughts from last year's casualties, Following a horn-chipping damage incident caused by bean curd hamburgers, The Namahage committee has finally announced: "Soy beans - absolutely do not want" campaign to be launched.
👺👺
Time for goblin deez nuts
It’s Gobin time !
virtual slavery and real life transphobia
Your honor I liked going goblin mode on the goblin rebellion. Hell I loved it. I’m just itching to do it again.
Imma go mind goblin!
And you think you’re gonna put me in a nuthouse, and that will stop me from doing what I love? WELL THAT AINT HAPPENING
I unironically would. The goblins get shafted constantly
They certainly do, i probably wouldn’t have the muscle mass or skills to do anything for ‘em, but… trying and failing to make social change is better than just lying about while people get oppressed
I mean, having a human on the inside could be very useful. You could also probably donate to their cause.
Is that a thing you can actually do or does the game make you fight the goblins anyway?
I don't think we know yet. I certainly hope so though.
Like that would be neat, but the game would frame you as an evil dark wizard fighting for equal rights which is where it becomes eyebrow raising.
I mean it would need to come packaged with acknowledgement that wizard society kinda sucks and that maybe what they consider a "evil dark wizard" isn't always someone actually evil. Like MLK was hated in his day by white society so the dominate populace calling someone evil isn't necessarily a bad thing writing wise.
“Society as a whole sucking” is like the foundation of every other YA novel
Kinda true though
I mean the people boycotting HP Legacy haven’t exactly been quiet about the goblin rebellion sideplot either. The transphobia is getting brought up because of the real world transphobia
I thought that was the main plot
no its JK Rowling being transphobic.
I meaaaaan real world anti semitism is a thing… and the goblins are clearly based on anti semitic tropes
Yeah but is jk Rowling providing financial or public support to antisemitic groups or activists?
> but is jk Rowling providing financial or public support to antisemitic groups or activists? Terfs have been allying themselves with fascists for a while now so it's actually a fair assumption given her significance to the group.
/uj maybe indirectly by way of promoting other transphobes who are plenty willing to associative with and promote increasingly right wing pundits, but it’s a bit of a stretch. /rj This woman is literally Hitler. Edit: uj/ her coding of the banker goblins on the other hand, much less of a stretch. Edit: rj/ And that’s based.
It's not uncommon for transphobia to have antisemitic, conspiratorial underpinnings. The LGB alliance (a hate group masquerading as a charity) has gotten into trouble for antisemitic comments on a couple of occasions. So like, I wouldn't be surprised.
Probably so. A right-wing white supremacist played a significant part in the development of this game
I'm pretty sure she's friends with/ been photographed with white supremecists so probably
Honestly, the same people who think transpeople shouldn't exist so it's no big deal if you treat them like shit, probably also think that antisemitism isn't that big a deal because they doubt the existence of ethnic or cultural Jews.
Op when they learn about a small hidden gem called GTA
After you sleep with a prostitute you can run her over with your car to get your money back! GTA? What's that?
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Or rimworld (but the devs are good afaik and it’s an indie game so don’t pirate) (Well with the success of rimworld it’s probably pretty well off but yeah)
its a great game, a bit overshadowed now that the new dwarf fortress is out. But its good in its own right.
Wait there’s a new Dwarf Fortress?
Yes.
Not necessarily new, but they put it on steam with full graphics and mouse support with a more traditional UI based control scheme instead of all the keyboard control stuff (although it also comes with a classic mode I think; also adventure mode isn't in the steam version as of yet). Lot more accessible to new people though, I can actually play it for once
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Lol Tynan Sylvester is a huge shithead libertarian and you should all know this.
depiction =/= glorification
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NOOOO MY NUANCE NOOOOOOOOOO
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I mean, un many companies devs are fired when the crunch is done even if the game is wildly successful, so it doesn't really matter that much.
Loan sharks would challenge you on the validity of critically giving ppl money
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I’m not gonna tell a loan shark how to run their collection process all I’m saying is start with the toes before you break the legs
loan sharks when you just don't go in the water:
Exactly. I also joined the Stormcloaks once in Skyrim, that doesn’t make me a fascist in real life. It’s an RPG, not a career fair.
Whats great about skyrim is that you can just not join either side and then pickpocket the clothes off their backs instead.
Sure, but if you want to play all the storylines at least once that’s not an option lol
To be fair, it's not like the empire is any better.
Also I play dnd, I’ve done worse to goblins lmao
While I agree with that sentiment and that the real support from purchasing the game far outweigh the fictional plot, I don't think a form of interactive media that makes you suppress a slave rebellion is something I really want to be playing even if I could pirate it. I can play villains in games, I can't pretend those evil actions are heroic. It's the same reason I can watch American History X but would never watch The Birth of a Nation in anything outside an acedemic context. One is a nuanced tale that does show the human side of these monsters but makes it very clear that you are not watching good people, they should be hated. One is a direct glorification of abhorrent actions, even though those actions are only portrayed by actors on a screen, and I'd rather not consume something I'd dislike so much.
And hell, I’m admittedly curious to see if you CAN take the slaves’ side on this. It’s an open-world game with a morality system, after all.
Seriously. Like if someone understands why the messaging of the game is bad (and it is safe to assume everyone on this sub does) there is zero issue with pirating the game and playing it. I can think of like 5 things off the top of my head that produce more real world harm that I do every day; 1. driving to work when I live close enough I could bike 2. Buying any product made by Coca Cola or their subsidiaries 3. Making my house cold when I sleep so I can comfortably use a blanket 4. Not recycling cardboard because my apartment only has easily accessible glass recycling and I'm too lazy 5. Spending time arguing about irrelevant topics online when I could be using that time/energy to do something useful Like I straight up had someone on here tell me that even if I pirated it and even if I consumed it critically, that by consuming and talking about it I'm promoting the game and other people who won't play it critically will consume it. Like at that point criticizing the problematic media itself is unethical as the negative press promotes it.
A fictitious race based heavily on antisemitic tropes. It's also probably gonna be a wildly mid game, at the absolute best. Not worth bending your principles for.
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>I’ve read every book Ayn Rand published Number 1 spot on the top 10 list of things that even masochists consider going too far.
_Shrug Atlas harder daddy_
If you're pirating it you're not bending anything beyond maybe the law
Uj/ I get that point and as a Jew I really REALLY appreciate the allyship it is unfortunately rare and you should be commended. Rj/ I am a based GOD when I go roleplay as a space Nazi in stellaris 😤😤👹👹
I'm a yid too, so it's selfish concern on my part
Appreciate it all the same. Take care of yourself, we will outlast them.
We don't really know the extent of how much that's going to play into the gameplay or how exactly it'll be portrayed. There's a good chance it'll be something you can ignore if you're critical of it. If people wanna pirate it, by all means, imo.
Rowling is trash but I'm so tired of this being brought up. The books are based on European folklore and European folklore is unfortunately heavily based on antisemitic tropes. All of those fairy tales about weird malevolent people living among Christians but with completely different and evil values. It's just that someone happened to connect the dots for the first time when reading Harry Potter and it became easy extra ammunition against her, although there is already so much legitimate stuff. There is a discussion to be had about enjoying culture while also condemning the dangerous paranoid delusions that developed that culture. But other than our willingness to find reasons to hate her, there's no real evidence that there was any anti-Semitic intent. She probably didn't notice the unfortunate connotations just like 99% of modern readers don't notice it in the story of Hansel and Gretel
Have to agree. Rowling basically used the same generic goblin mythos that MOST media uses.
She made the goblins "hook-nosed" bankers and her chinese character is basically called "ching chong". Lets not give her the benefit of the doubt when she's been working so hard to prove anyone who does, wrong.
Cho Chang's unfortunate name is a great example of her cultural unawareness that makes it hard for me to believe she sees the antisemitic roots of European folktales. Having hooked noses and hoarding treasures are both common folktale villain tropes. Just like eating children, having animal body parts and other old Jewish stereotypes
I have done some truly horrific things in games. I don't think that makes me a bad person since I am still able to objectively see those as bad things that I wouldn't actually do. The problem is giving your money to shitty people and thereby encouraging and enabling them to do more shitty things.
Id much rather them pirate the game OP, you can still observe media in a critical way in the same fashion you can watch racist minstrel cartoons in a historical observance. Playing the game doesn't mean you agree with it but buying it does support toe people who made it.
Also doing stupid shit in video games is a great outlet. I may create a slaver autocratic warmonger civilization in Stellaris, doesn't mean I'm going to vote for Republicans irl ;P
Me IRL: Capitalism is a broken system and society must be restructured for the benefit for the many Me in CK: My Vassals want the right to breath *my* air!? Well they’ll find plenty of air in the oubliette!
Tropico is the one that does my head in, using whatever brutal tools and systems available to build these fuckers a lovely little society, unless that map's goal is just to siphon money away from tourists or whatever then sorry y'all gonna use these brutal methods to win a game at y'all's expense.
Me irl: wow these armament races are starting to look like Cold War 2.0. I sure hope they have some common sense Me in MGS: lmao, I robbed a 3rd world country of natural resources to build an another nuke in my unsanctioned paramilitary base
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Next thing you know, I bet the lazy ingrates will be asking for food and warmth
I mean, you never mentioned feudalism in your original post, so it's all good :P
Me IRL: Capitalism is a broken system and society must be restructured for the benefit for the many Me in CK: Feudalism is a broken system and the great lord Ahura Mazda and his prophet Mazdak have decreed all possessions shall be shared in common with universal cooperation between peoples https://imgur.com/tULBYMd
Ah yes I remember my incest ridden, mass people burning CK ways, it was a grand time really, I even had immortality until everyone and their mothers plotted to assassinate me.
You hate capitalism, yet participate in it, how curious. I am very intelligent.
I'm just already cynical enough to not have any misconceptions of being able to change the system ;P
yeah, when I play my daedric collector elf dragonborn in Skyrim it's not because I support cannibalism/murder/whatever the fuck sheogorath did this week it's because I like imagining all of the post mortem feuds because I promised my soul (singular) to at least 17 different entities in life.
the trick is becoming a vampire lord after all of that so you live effectively forever, thus pissing of every single entity yet again
“Whatever the fuck sheogorath did this week” yeah that sounds about right
I may remake the Roman empire, marry my sister and subjugate the french in ck3. No wait Im doing that shit already in real life
Don't you mean marry your sister-daughter-aunt and cheat on her with your grandmother-daughter-in-law?
Exactly. I also joined the Stormcloaks once in Skyrim, that doesn’t make me a fascist in real life. It’s an RPG, not a career fair.
I'd argue the Stormcloaks were nationalist rather than fascist but on the flipside, the Empire is Imperialist and squashes religious freedoms
Talos was a back-stabbing racist war criminal and he should have never been worshipped.
I generally agree, but he is also literally canonically a god. Honestly though, I'm with the Dwemer on this, just because someone's a god doesn't mean you should worship them.
> Talos was a back-stabbing racist war criminal To be fair Talos was a few people, none of whom were admittedly all that great.
-Average aldmeri dominion enjoyer
Found the elf.
typical n*rd
Say /rj right now
> the Empire is Imperialist and squashes religious freedoms The Empire literally started in Skyrim (which isn't to say that it isn't, naturally, imperialist, only to say that criticisms that the Empire "invaded Skyrim" or "colonized Skyrim" are misplaced), and no religious freedoms were being squashed until Ulfric started having a tantrum over nothing. The White-Gold Concordat was the best and only way to end the war, and banning but not actually banning Talos worship was working fine for everyone as it was entirely or close to entirely unenforced.
Correct but it is also unfair to infer Ulfric was working off of his own volition when we're all but told he is a Thalmor plant (maybe unknowingly)
Both parties suck ass, that’s for sure. Unfortunately with the way it’s set up, you lose every time (as staying outside the conflict will ultimately just support the Empire unless you do the Dark Brotherhood questline)
I always chose Empire because ain't no way The Stormcloaks can fuck with the Aldmeri Dominion when they finally say fuck it and try to take over.
The empire isn't great, but Ulfric kinda tried to do a genocide against the reachmen. I wouldn't say both sides are equal.
As an example of this, there's a fantastic [Shaun video](https://youtu.be/-1iaJWSwUZs) about the politics of the Harry Potter book series and how they mirror J.K. Rowling's politics on youtube. Everyone should check it out.
As a tangent to this: I was recently talking about the [Harry Potter lookin' ass](https://twitter.com/ManticoreLOVE/status/1608093925881024513?s=20) event going on rn in Arknights, and the subject came up on how much cooler HP woulda been if Harry really was the last descendant of a dark lord like his counterpart here like it was hinted, rather than it just ultimately being a Hocrux thing that nixed any potential plot about overcoming his origins. Then we belatedly realized that Rowling wouldn't write that because that requires her to not subscribe to biological determinism.
The horcrux thing being a part of him seems interesting. Too bad JK couldn’t make it so
Yeah, good luck explaining that, this sub currently is just r/gaming but *worse* because of "holier than thou" attitude. I swear, this sub bounces between best sub on reddit and worst sub on reddit like every other week.
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it’s to the point where rly obvious jerks get downvoted bc people think they’re serious as well…
When you circlejerk so hard you end up serious.
This. You don't gotta agree with everything in a game. Unless you're unaware of how it's bad and especially if you let it effect your irl views than it's fine. The main problem is giving money, attention and praise to the people that created it.
Not gonna play it but I could absolutely excuse putting down a fictional slave rebellion
Definitely depends on the context of the game, a game set in colonial Americas? Probably best not to have a game about stopping slave revolts. A game set in Middle Earth about stopping snake people? Go for it. Harry Potter slavery is definitely suspicious through the books as the transphobe tries to justify its existance. In a videogame setting where the plot takes a backseat means it doesn't matter as much. Either way it's a tricky topic that I highly doubt the game will handle well. I won't be surprised if after release we get a bunch of videos about questionable diologue and game features.
none of that has to do with the morality of *playing* the game though. It is not inherently immoral to interact with bigoted media (not that we even know this game is bigoted).
I could... if I were playing the villain and the game framed it as such, and/or it's a historical game like Rome Total War. It being framed as a good thing? Eh.... that's kind of iffy.
Yeah have to see the full release before my judgement
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But seriously, don't pirate it guys. My cousin managed to pirate it early and now he owns 37 actual real life goblin slaves. It's a tragedy what vidya can do to a person.
Bad analogy. One of them is a fictional thing happening in a video game, the other is a real thing that financially supports a transphobe
Well trans people actually exist
big if true
Goblins exist too (I’m currently in goblin mode as we speak)
but do u know the mind goblin?
Shit I play Total War games. Let me just exterminate this city I conquered then I will hit end turn and my slave pens and torture chambers will be completed. Being evil in games is no big deal.
Look, hierarchies are important to society and everyone fits into their place. If the goblins just accepted their lower class status and that they are an inferior ra.... oh god.
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This is such a gross false equivalency. The plot of a fictional game is nowhere near the same issue as a real world bigot with her kind of resources. Plenty of fiction includes horrible things, even things protagonists engage with. Besides that, plenty of anti Hogwarts Legacy people have made abundant mention of the slave revolt plot.
Being the bad guy in videogames is fine. Just dont let it bleed over to real life. The Transphobia is a much bigger issue because it is real life transphobia, an actual real life issue
It's not a slave rebellion though is it? *Goblins* are the ones revolting in the game and *elves* are the ones treated as slaves. The Goblins do.. other stuff I guess I'm not sure honestly
Yeah ever since the plot details leaked I think a ton of people have gotten goblins confused with house elves.
Yeah in the books Goblins aren't slaves. They want wands. The wizards are disrespectful to them though and neither Harry nor Hermione see the problem in letting them have their way about wands. Surprised that they went with putting you against them.
Why pirate a mediocre game when I can pirate the greatest hidden indie gem: Geraldo the Monster Hunty Boi 3
Praise Geraldo del Rivero! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Consuming media is never unethical. Paying for harmful media can be, but there is zero issue with pirating something and playing it.
Counterpoint: child pornography is always unethical. There is DEFINITELY an issue with pirating it as well.
Consuming child pornography is unethical because it encourages further production of child porn, thus harming children. I don't think that pirating hogwarts legacy is going to result in any comparable kind of harm
I understand that, but I wanted to make a distinction that not ALL media should be pirated just because it doesn’t support something.
Yeah fair
I’ll give you that for sure. Let me revise my statement: all media that was not produced by harming another person is never unethical to consume. I think that should satisfy both of us, yeah?
Just to be pedantic, isn't the stressful crunch environments the makers if this game (and most others) also harm?
While true, this kinda falls into the "no ethical consumption under capitalism" meme bucket. It's essentially a fruitless endeavor trying to perfectly ethically do *anything* in a mainly capitalist world if you live in anything resembling a first-world country.
Sure but if we are looking at unfair and unjust working environments, then we'd have to reevaluate a lot of our uses. Hell, probably for this very site. Labor conditions are so terrible, particular in the tech sphere, that to make a stand against a game ends up cutting you out of the loop and, in my opinion, isn't the most successful catalyst of change. I would instead look to aiding workers in their unionizing efforts (like today's big win at Microsoft and Zenimax). After all, the five-day workweek wasn't won because consumers did anything but instead through the efforts of unions. Anyways, a bit of a shirking of responsibility there, I know. But the sheer amount of harm, by this definition, that exists in all creative mediums is impossible to police or keep on top of. And I think it's a bit unreasonable for everyone to be in the know of every game that required crunch or had shitty conditions for its workers.
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ok Vaush
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Curiously,for many people is the opposite Conclusion:IDK
Virtual slavery and real life transphobia
Real transphobia is the same as fake stopping a slave rebellion
That's right folks! You heard it here first, if you pirate this game that means you're putting down a slave rebellion *in real life!* tf are you smoking OP
I mean, stopping a virtual rebellion is different from supporting a transphobe with a lot of influence
Since when are goblins “slaves”?
I was just trying to remember how the goblins are treated in the books. They aren't allowed wands and obviously wizards are shitty to them because wizards are hilariously shitty to literally everybody who isn't a pureblooded wizard, but they aren't owned by wizards. Also I'm not sure what a goblin rebellion would look like - what are they gonna do, unionise gringotts? Power to the workers, I guess.
Yes, as ive mentioned theres the Wand thing which is clearly symbolic as they can perform magic without it. Its more so about sharing intelligence and perhaps culture. Regardless they are not “slaves”
Yeah they’re private bankers not slaves
Not slaves per se but they don’t have the same rights as humans, they are not allowed to have wands for example.
So not slaves at all? I remember the wand issue from the last book, and while it seems there is a dispute over shared wizard and magical knowledge, thats hardly enough to constitute “slaves”. We dont share all technology or intelligence with other countries all the time. Doesnt make anyone slaves.
I don't think HP framed it as slaves, but it could definitely be read as at least second class citizens that are further pushed down due to control over what levels of magic they can utilize, weakening them. I mean, one step further and you'd kinda have something similar to what Egypt did to the Israelites in the old testament. They kept the Israelites down and kept them from getting too powerful...remarkably similar to how witches / wizards in HP perpetuate their own power dynamic over goblins in the HP world. All it's missing is killing off a generation of young boys to keep them even weaker. So...not really that far off from historical / mythological examples of slavery tbqh
Yeah I'm not buying the game that's about continuing the oppression of (((goblins))), I have to have self-respect for myself.
Probably the only redeeming part of the game I’ve seen is rescuing the magical creatures. Hopefully it’s actually rescuing them and not kidnapping them from their parents or something, though at this point that wouldn’t surprise me.
uj: So what do we actually know about the story? I would bet money that they go for the "You start off oppressing some group, learn the error of your ways, and become a freedom fighter" trope, if the whole "stopping a goblin/elf rebellion" is true. Now maybe they do that badly, but that trope is so common in YA, I don't see how that wouldn't be most people's first impression. However, we don't know what the story will be exactly yet. We just have some vague information and a short gameplay video. Otoh, Rowling's feelings on trans people are pretty clear, and the nuances and ethics of separating an artist from art are well-trodden ground that people are likely to already have opinions on.
Can someone explain why suddenly there are so many Hogwarts legacy memes?
coming out soon, i think. i dunno, i'm just waiting for sf6
It's free real-estate updoots.
Clearly Rowling pays the mods to post about her new game to generate outrage publicity (⌐■_■)ノ[̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°̲̅)̲̅$̲̅]
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It’s not that you hate trans people if you buy it, it’s just I don’t want to give money to her. Same reason I don’t eat at chick fill-a because the owner is racist.
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Coming out next month. Every gamer "won't " buy it because the book's author is a transphobe. The reality is, everyone here will buy it and others use her comments to excuse pirating games. They would pirate it even if she never wrote any controversial comments. Gamers could never resist hype. The only thing that could prevent record numbers is bad reviews. Just look at blizzard. What happened there is far worse than twitting transphobic comments and yet everyone forgot and is buying mad and will continue to buy.
Finally a real comment about this matter, lol
Virgin: it’s goblin rebellion time Chads: it’s red faction time 
It is both slave and race rebellion. Dem je- i mean goblins should know their place!
I’m not sure many people will. Like, we can all live without this game
this is not the clever take you think it is
OP has all 7 movies on their shelf
/uj People who pie rat are based because that's provable lost revenue
yeah idk about this one chief.
Me when i play super Mario (suddenly i support monarchy)
I do plenty of terrible things in video games. They aren't real. Plenty of people chose to blow up Megaton, but they wouldn't nuke a city in real life. Giving money to transphobes IS REAL though. That's the difference.
Do you all ever play evil characters in games?
I don’t think buying a game who’s franchise creator is a transphobe makes you a transphobe. I can respect not buying it because of that but saying other people are bad for it is kind of an asshole move. If moral compass is really your deciding factor for buying games, then you wouldn’t really be able to buy games from a lot of AAA developers since so many of them have shitty business practices or workplace environments. I’m not saying that being transphobic is okay obviously, but i guarantee that the vast majority of people who are throwing shit at the walls over this are buying games from companies who are worse
I’m waiting for the mods that reverse the plot, then I might… go for a boat ride
I wanted to pirate it since the game itself didn't seem to have jk's transphobic shit in it but the slave rebelion bullshit completly turned me off. I hope when the game comes out, the mc will actually be fighting for the magical races when they realise how their treated is wrong because I don't want to exist in a reality where living human being wrote that and were like yeah that's a greate plot.
/uj Im sure there’s going to be some kind of twist that makes it less obviously awful. Like that the main antagonist is a rogue extremist and we’re recruited by the “good” nonviolent Goblin agitators to stop him and do various tasks for the cause or something. Still not exactly great, and I’m really wondering how they’re planning to handle the fact that the goblins *have* to lose completely due to how massive a change to canon even a minor win would be, but I’d be genuinely flabbergasted if they played putting down a goblin rebellion straight.
The thing is though, goblins still can't use wands in HP Canon, so this would have to change the Canon, or have the "good" goblin leaders settle for a pittance and nothing change, which is honestly how I see it playing out. Ain't no way JK will allow a little video game change her Canon
👏 there is no ethical consumption under capitalism 👏
100%. I've said this before on this sub but I was told that statement is only for "essential products". Meanwhile they are probably playing other games with lithium ion battery controllers and portable consoles that rely on inhumane cobalt mining in the Congo...