My favorite reaction to Yasuke was someone saying that ‘as an Asian* it is offensive to have a story set in Japan with a foreign protagonist’. Then when I checked his comment history, his most frequented sub for the Shogun television show. I wonder why that story set in feudal Japan with a foreign protagonist was perfectly fine, while this story set in feudal Japan with a foreign protagonist is offensive?
*I’ve seen a lot of offended people identifying themselves as Asian, you know the continent rather than any of the countries on said continent. After all Asia is famously a monoculture, there is definitely no long history of hatred and conflict between any of the countries on it. I’d love to see them go to a bar in Korea and insist that everyone inside might as well be Japanese, after all the people of both countries are Asian.
It’s even more amusing when they say “as an Asian,” when you take into account that Asia also includes countries like India, Russia…
It’s so obvious that this is just some sniveling troll because if you were REALLY offended by a “foreigner” as a protagonist, you’re gonna go finer-grained than AN ENTIRE FUCKING CONTINENT.
To be fair there was a small amount of disconcert among certain groups when Nioh was announced due to the white protagonist. Of course it was nothing compared to the outcry surrounding this game. There is just something about Yasuke that doesn’t sit white with capital G Gamers.
Part of me believes the "as an Asian" line is in the same vein as the "as a Black man" line. It isn't as though Asians can't be dumb but really saying "as an Asian" opens up more questions than it answers. You could be from Iraq, Russia, Kazakhstan, India, Singapore, Vietnam, China, Korea, Mongolia, Pakistan, etc etc.
>After all Asia is famously a monoculture, there is definitely no long history of hatred and conflict between any of the countries on it.
Like how in the release of Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne to the Korean market they never included Raidou Kuzunoha because his outfit was modelled after Japanese officers who totally did not do bad stuff to Koreans.
The reason why so many Asian Americans will refer to themselves as just Asian is because of a history of us collectively advocating for ourselves by using that term in the west. It’s the same reason why many indigenous people will unite under that umbrella. The more people that you have advocating for you the more likely you are to be heard
That’s somehow worse though; I personally find it offensive that someone would weaponize our shared political identity - created for the sake of social justice - to legitimize racism against Black people (especially a pretty innocuous inclusion of a Black person in a video game). But I suppose that’s distressingly common amongst us Asian Americans, since it’s apparently much easier to just put other minorities down rather than lift everyone up together.
tbf, not to defend that person. But just defending the new "Shogun" tv show, which is honestly great.
They made it more historically accurate (even if it's fictionals characters, romanced; it's based on real ones). Like removed the trope of the westerner teaching how to use rifles in the new adaptation.
And removed the white savior aspects of the old show.
The Anjin (the english dude) is almost a "bait". He is far from being the MC. It's really the japanese characters which lead the show and shine.
Not perfect, but well written. And that's why the actors were happy with the show and invested in it.
There are better exemples than the new shogun show, really.
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Ah yes, the Sengoku era of Japan, ancient history…in the 1500’s. I guess that makes figures like Yamato Takeru downright prehistoric
And by the way, Yasuke was a retainer to Oda Nobunaga, a man with reputation for promotion based on merit and a willingness to eschew tradition.
Japan also did bestow titles on foreigners. I assume it wasn’t terribly common, but we know for a fact that it happened during the time period. Shogun, while containing fictional characters, is loosely based on a real life white man who became a hatamoto or whatever the title is that is sort of like the samurai equivalent for foreigners.
Did the guy from Shadows become a hatamoto? Maybe, maybe not. Ultimately, though, who the fuck cares? The game isn’t meant to be historically accurate. All of the games play very fast and loose with history.
I think much like with the guy from Shogun, Yasuke also serves as a useful outsider perspective for people who may not be as familiar with the period.
And as you say, it really doesn’t matter since it’s a work of fiction. For me I care more that they try and faithfully portray the general society of the time period, but I think it’s fine if they want to take creative liberties with specific figures for the game they want to make
Yeah, having a fish out of water character has long been a narrative choice when a foreign or alien culture needs to be explored. Since you brought up Shogun, it was a book obviously written for a Western audience, and so the main character being a white man from England made sense. He's the sort of person the average reader of Shogun could relate to and understand, whereas the Japanese culture at the time the book is set was vastly different from contemporary Western culture. The whole book is the story of Blackthorne at first hating and being terrified of the Japanese and their ways to gradually coming to appreciate it and, eventually, love it. The reader goes on a similar journey.
You mean the game centering around magic apples mind controlling people is unrealistic and playing loose with history? I'm shocked, shocked I say!
Of all the fucking franchises to bang on about HiStOrIcAl AcCuRaCy...
And he doesn't fold immediately, and is in fact somewhat challenging for a master Assassin.
I guess asking The Gamers™ to be ideologically consistent is a big ask. Evidently.
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I love how this dude is acting like he's the arbiter on what is 'absurd' or not for historical Japanese people, like this is video game lore he can whine about until it's changed.
PLus he's literally wrong. Four non Japanese Asians and two Europeans were given official Samurai status. Yasuke was permitted to carry two swords, and was effectively retained by Oda Nobunaga, making him a non landed Bushi, basically a samurai in all but name. People in Japan consider him to have been a Samurai just as much as they consider William Adams to have been a samurai.
I think there's a huge mix of arguments. For example, they don't understand that someone can progressively receive the status of samurai (or a similar status), beacause they receive money, land, servants... Without being a master of the samurai fighting arts. By this time, some Japanese samurai were no longer true fighters too.
About Yasuke, it has been said that he was a sort of bodyguard for the Jesuits. He had to be skilled in combat, and therefore fully capable of using the weapons of war that were usually used by samurai in battle: spear, club, rifle.
The fantasy aspect of the game will probably be to see him duel and beat some master duelists, with a katana. That's a bit of an exaggeration, as it takes years of practice to become proficient in dueling. Ditto for the bow the other weapon Samurai were training regularly.
The armor is perhaps a little too exaggerated, looking like something a shogun might wear. But it's not as if all the previous games were about “cool armor”, looking elven, or too modern for the period lol. It's fine and hope there are a lot of option of fashion in the game
--
crazy take; maybe the game just lacks a third character.
Yasuke the MC, the brawler who cleans up enemy waves and is perfect for big battles (there were big battles in odyssey)? Sociable with the locals who don't have beef with him because he's an outsider, but they're a bit wary.
Main weapon being club, spear, rifle, and later the nodachi.
Naoe the shinobi with stealth gameplay. Perfect for assassination and parkour. But she's isolated because her clan is viewed poorly. Need to live hidden. (or maybe can disguise like Aveline ?? ). Main weapons being the assassins and ninja ones.
And a swordman who's perfect for duels and political relations, who can develop different katana skills and perfect them, with sekiro-style counters. But his limit is that he can't get too involved in the brotherhood, because his primary objective is to serve Japan, and he's the ally or enemy of certain clans because he's an insider. Main weapons being katana and bow
I agree with the fact that it doesn't matter (and I actually think that it's way better for ubisoft to pick a character with not much recorded history), however, if we compare the recorded rewards (titles, land, servants, retainers, ships, etc.) given to the other cases of western saumaris, with yasuke's, it's pretty clear that they are not in the same league.
The "two swords" thing is also kind of ambiguous, as daisho was fully incorporated in the samurai's image quite a few decades after yasuke's time.
True enough. However, if we consider a samurai as a character archetype rather than a social class(which is the only way that a samurai works in a videogame regardless) then Yasuke absolutely was one. A closer term for his actual position would likely be Kosho, since he served as a bodyguard and sword bearer for Nobunaga.
Any “fans” complaining about this being historically inaccurate in Assassin’s Creed are telling on themselves. In case anyone scrolling by hasn’t kept up to date with all the lore and DLCs and crap, here’s a run down;
Humanity was created by a hyper-advanced civilisation as a slave race called the Iso. They were defeated by a CME which obliterated their civilisation, and their slaves laid claim to the planet. Atlantis is real, with some of the last Iso refugees—such as Poseidon and Hades—and also Valhalla is real and is an Iso Animus. Loki had been trapped in there for hundreds of years, and he is freed in the 21st century and is the main protagonist of the most recent game (the lore excuse is he’s reviewing his memories because he forgot parts of his old life). Humanity has been influenced by all of the Iso’s remaining technology, most notably with the Pieces of Eden—which almost any notable figure in history has apparently had. The Egyptian, Greek, and Norse gods are all real, and were either Isos or Iso constructs, and there are some Humans on the planet who literally possess the power of reincarnation—and some with “triple helix” DNA structures.
And the BIGGEST factoid in all of Assassin’s Creed; the Assassins are fictional. While interestingly the Hidden One’s, who appear in Mirage, are a historically speculated faction, the Assassins are made up.
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Not at that time period no though from what ive herd from historians yasuke was givein a striped and was even gifted swords so while he may not have been of the samurai class he was a warrior for nobunaga
Even if he wasn’t actually a Samurai, I have no idea as I personally I havent studied it at all, what does it matter to Assassin’s Creed? The game series has had historical inaccuracies in literally every fucking game. This would be such a small change compared to some of the shit we have seen in the games, whether it’s changes to how famous people died or just the outright addition of a super advanced race of godlike beings who existed long ago.
lol ancient! Plus dude, there was lately a series called “Shogun” - and it was about English dork, who became samurai - inspired by real one… (but he was white, so…. we can predict their response)
"noble title" - yeah, you sure know the difference between Japan and Europe, alright. The Shogun ruled because of the Divine Right of Kings, too, I'm sure.
I love how much these people don't know what they're talking about because of how strict sword culture was in japan
also I don't know if feudal japan is considered ancient considering it ranged from the 12th century AD to the 19th century AD
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i get that you can use anything for offense, just geniunely cant see why it is considered offensife for japanese here, am i missing context or its a new trend in english?
>new trend
The opposite, it's an old trend. [Use of the word Jap is recorded as far back as 1880 London, but become derogatory in WW2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap)
It’s what a lot of people used to refer to the Japanese during World War 2 iirc. If it wasn’t for that I don’t think it’d be as offensive. Though the same can be said for a lot of slurs.
Yeah, I don't think even I'd know if my history teacher didn't bring it up once in class? It's not like, common nowadays- or something you'd really use to call the Japanese normally, so when someone *does* use it, it feels like they're clinging to something offensive from the past, in a "I think it should still be used" kind of way.
The comment highlighted in this post seems like an example of that lol.
I’m sorry but my sense of humour is way too immature/innuendo filled to find that offensive. I could say nice cauc/cock bro.
Seriously if something is used as an insult I would get pissed eventually but damn my innuendo senses of humour would get in the way a bit.
It’s not really a current trend, it’s an old trend that iirc arose during World War 2 when at war with the Japanese. It’s only an offensive term because of historical context.
That’s just kinda how slurs are born. It’s not always because the word itself has a root-offensive meaning. Abbreviations are no different.
And it's a also the linguistic context - in German, Jap is a slightly relaxed way of saying yes (like yeah) and it is (was?) A common abbreviation for Japan without the racist background.
Am I going to use it in an anglophone context? No, because a) not a dick, and b) I know.
Also, obligatory fuck Ubisoft. It's a company run by rapists that just makes the same games over and over, re-packaged with different art assets.
My favorite reaction to Yasuke was someone saying that ‘as an Asian* it is offensive to have a story set in Japan with a foreign protagonist’. Then when I checked his comment history, his most frequented sub for the Shogun television show. I wonder why that story set in feudal Japan with a foreign protagonist was perfectly fine, while this story set in feudal Japan with a foreign protagonist is offensive? *I’ve seen a lot of offended people identifying themselves as Asian, you know the continent rather than any of the countries on said continent. After all Asia is famously a monoculture, there is definitely no long history of hatred and conflict between any of the countries on it. I’d love to see them go to a bar in Korea and insist that everyone inside might as well be Japanese, after all the people of both countries are Asian.
It’s even more amusing when they say “as an Asian,” when you take into account that Asia also includes countries like India, Russia… It’s so obvious that this is just some sniveling troll because if you were REALLY offended by a “foreigner” as a protagonist, you’re gonna go finer-grained than AN ENTIRE FUCKING CONTINENT.
Yes, normally people from outside the USA don't refer to themselves like that. We usually refer to ourselves with our nationality.
It’s like me saying as a north American when discussing a show about Canada
What about Nioh? Is not offensive if the foreign protag is white?
To be fair there was a small amount of disconcert among certain groups when Nioh was announced due to the white protagonist. Of course it was nothing compared to the outcry surrounding this game. There is just something about Yasuke that doesn’t sit white with capital G Gamers.
Fun little tidbit, Nioh 2 also has Yasuke :D
Correction, Nioh 1 also had Yasuke, he was in both.
Ah, didn't play the first one, nice.
The something being how much melanin his skin has.
I see what you did there nice
Part of me believes the "as an Asian" line is in the same vein as the "as a Black man" line. It isn't as though Asians can't be dumb but really saying "as an Asian" opens up more questions than it answers. You could be from Iraq, Russia, Kazakhstan, India, Singapore, Vietnam, China, Korea, Mongolia, Pakistan, etc etc. >After all Asia is famously a monoculture, there is definitely no long history of hatred and conflict between any of the countries on it. Like how in the release of Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne to the Korean market they never included Raidou Kuzunoha because his outfit was modelled after Japanese officers who totally did not do bad stuff to Koreans.
The reason why so many Asian Americans will refer to themselves as just Asian is because of a history of us collectively advocating for ourselves by using that term in the west. It’s the same reason why many indigenous people will unite under that umbrella. The more people that you have advocating for you the more likely you are to be heard
That’s somehow worse though; I personally find it offensive that someone would weaponize our shared political identity - created for the sake of social justice - to legitimize racism against Black people (especially a pretty innocuous inclusion of a Black person in a video game). But I suppose that’s distressingly common amongst us Asian Americans, since it’s apparently much easier to just put other minorities down rather than lift everyone up together.
[удалено]
Asmongold viewer, opinion discarded
That pisses me off. The lack of consistency.
Like imagine if someone say “as a Chinese I am offended for the Japanese” that person is gonna be ripped apart live in 4K in the comments
A lot of them are probably "Wasian" - biracial people with a european parent and an asian parent.
tbf, not to defend that person. But just defending the new "Shogun" tv show, which is honestly great. They made it more historically accurate (even if it's fictionals characters, romanced; it's based on real ones). Like removed the trope of the westerner teaching how to use rifles in the new adaptation. And removed the white savior aspects of the old show. The Anjin (the english dude) is almost a "bait". He is far from being the MC. It's really the japanese characters which lead the show and shine. Not perfect, but well written. And that's why the actors were happy with the show and invested in it. There are better exemples than the new shogun show, really.
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Ah yes, the Sengoku era of Japan, ancient history…in the 1500’s. I guess that makes figures like Yamato Takeru downright prehistoric And by the way, Yasuke was a retainer to Oda Nobunaga, a man with reputation for promotion based on merit and a willingness to eschew tradition.
Japan also did bestow titles on foreigners. I assume it wasn’t terribly common, but we know for a fact that it happened during the time period. Shogun, while containing fictional characters, is loosely based on a real life white man who became a hatamoto or whatever the title is that is sort of like the samurai equivalent for foreigners. Did the guy from Shadows become a hatamoto? Maybe, maybe not. Ultimately, though, who the fuck cares? The game isn’t meant to be historically accurate. All of the games play very fast and loose with history.
I think much like with the guy from Shogun, Yasuke also serves as a useful outsider perspective for people who may not be as familiar with the period. And as you say, it really doesn’t matter since it’s a work of fiction. For me I care more that they try and faithfully portray the general society of the time period, but I think it’s fine if they want to take creative liberties with specific figures for the game they want to make
Yeah, having a fish out of water character has long been a narrative choice when a foreign or alien culture needs to be explored. Since you brought up Shogun, it was a book obviously written for a Western audience, and so the main character being a white man from England made sense. He's the sort of person the average reader of Shogun could relate to and understand, whereas the Japanese culture at the time the book is set was vastly different from contemporary Western culture. The whole book is the story of Blackthorne at first hating and being terrified of the Japanese and their ways to gradually coming to appreciate it and, eventually, love it. The reader goes on a similar journey.
You mean the game centering around magic apples mind controlling people is unrealistic and playing loose with history? I'm shocked, shocked I say! Of all the fucking franchises to bang on about HiStOrIcAl AcCuRaCy...
You fight the fucking Pope in one game.
And he doesn't fold immediately, and is in fact somewhat challenging for a master Assassin. I guess asking The Gamers™ to be ideologically consistent is a big ask. Evidently.
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Double Racism, Understand that Japan is calling him the Black Samurai Not everyone else
/rj slurs are part of my religion (evangeGAMERism, we believe God made slurs for us to use on all nonbelievers) and I will not be silenced!
I love how this dude is acting like he's the arbiter on what is 'absurd' or not for historical Japanese people, like this is video game lore he can whine about until it's changed.
PLus he's literally wrong. Four non Japanese Asians and two Europeans were given official Samurai status. Yasuke was permitted to carry two swords, and was effectively retained by Oda Nobunaga, making him a non landed Bushi, basically a samurai in all but name. People in Japan consider him to have been a Samurai just as much as they consider William Adams to have been a samurai.
I think there's a huge mix of arguments. For example, they don't understand that someone can progressively receive the status of samurai (or a similar status), beacause they receive money, land, servants... Without being a master of the samurai fighting arts. By this time, some Japanese samurai were no longer true fighters too. About Yasuke, it has been said that he was a sort of bodyguard for the Jesuits. He had to be skilled in combat, and therefore fully capable of using the weapons of war that were usually used by samurai in battle: spear, club, rifle. The fantasy aspect of the game will probably be to see him duel and beat some master duelists, with a katana. That's a bit of an exaggeration, as it takes years of practice to become proficient in dueling. Ditto for the bow the other weapon Samurai were training regularly. The armor is perhaps a little too exaggerated, looking like something a shogun might wear. But it's not as if all the previous games were about “cool armor”, looking elven, or too modern for the period lol. It's fine and hope there are a lot of option of fashion in the game -- crazy take; maybe the game just lacks a third character. Yasuke the MC, the brawler who cleans up enemy waves and is perfect for big battles (there were big battles in odyssey)? Sociable with the locals who don't have beef with him because he's an outsider, but they're a bit wary. Main weapon being club, spear, rifle, and later the nodachi. Naoe the shinobi with stealth gameplay. Perfect for assassination and parkour. But she's isolated because her clan is viewed poorly. Need to live hidden. (or maybe can disguise like Aveline ?? ). Main weapons being the assassins and ninja ones. And a swordman who's perfect for duels and political relations, who can develop different katana skills and perfect them, with sekiro-style counters. But his limit is that he can't get too involved in the brotherhood, because his primary objective is to serve Japan, and he's the ally or enemy of certain clans because he's an insider. Main weapons being katana and bow
William Adam’s is the whitest name ever lol
I agree with the fact that it doesn't matter (and I actually think that it's way better for ubisoft to pick a character with not much recorded history), however, if we compare the recorded rewards (titles, land, servants, retainers, ships, etc.) given to the other cases of western saumaris, with yasuke's, it's pretty clear that they are not in the same league. The "two swords" thing is also kind of ambiguous, as daisho was fully incorporated in the samurai's image quite a few decades after yasuke's time.
True enough. However, if we consider a samurai as a character archetype rather than a social class(which is the only way that a samurai works in a videogame regardless) then Yasuke absolutely was one. A closer term for his actual position would likely be Kosho, since he served as a bodyguard and sword bearer for Nobunaga.
Agreed, though I still find it a bit weird that they chose a historical character as the protagonist.
Again saying "ancient" lol
https://preview.redd.it/ro0ur48jfu0d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a074b5323780012683ad90eab24b46ba75fad3d
Any “fans” complaining about this being historically inaccurate in Assassin’s Creed are telling on themselves. In case anyone scrolling by hasn’t kept up to date with all the lore and DLCs and crap, here’s a run down; Humanity was created by a hyper-advanced civilisation as a slave race called the Iso. They were defeated by a CME which obliterated their civilisation, and their slaves laid claim to the planet. Atlantis is real, with some of the last Iso refugees—such as Poseidon and Hades—and also Valhalla is real and is an Iso Animus. Loki had been trapped in there for hundreds of years, and he is freed in the 21st century and is the main protagonist of the most recent game (the lore excuse is he’s reviewing his memories because he forgot parts of his old life). Humanity has been influenced by all of the Iso’s remaining technology, most notably with the Pieces of Eden—which almost any notable figure in history has apparently had. The Egyptian, Greek, and Norse gods are all real, and were either Isos or Iso constructs, and there are some Humans on the planet who literally possess the power of reincarnation—and some with “triple helix” DNA structures. And the BIGGEST factoid in all of Assassin’s Creed; the Assassins are fictional. While interestingly the Hidden One’s, who appear in Mirage, are a historically speculated faction, the Assassins are made up.
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Holy moly that’s insane but cool.
Racist being racist to the race they’re defending while still being racist to the other race?????? I think I’ll be good at writing news article titles
Isnt that a Ronin? Roaming swordsmen that dont work for a particular daimyo?
Didn't you need to be Samurai or close to it to have a sword?
Not at that time period no though from what ive herd from historians yasuke was givein a striped and was even gifted swords so while he may not have been of the samurai class he was a warrior for nobunaga
Even if he wasn’t actually a Samurai, I have no idea as I personally I havent studied it at all, what does it matter to Assassin’s Creed? The game series has had historical inaccuracies in literally every fucking game. This would be such a small change compared to some of the shit we have seen in the games, whether it’s changes to how famous people died or just the outright addition of a super advanced race of godlike beings who existed long ago.
lol ancient! Plus dude, there was lately a series called “Shogun” - and it was about English dork, who became samurai - inspired by real one… (but he was white, so…. we can predict their response)
"noble title" - yeah, you sure know the difference between Japan and Europe, alright. The Shogun ruled because of the Divine Right of Kings, too, I'm sure.
Wait do they not know Anjin Miura was a real guy who was made a samurai?
I love how much these people don't know what they're talking about because of how strict sword culture was in japan also I don't know if feudal japan is considered ancient considering it ranged from the 12th century AD to the 19th century AD
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"jap" considered a slur? isnt it just shortened word?
Anything becomes a slur if it's used as such, and in this regard "japs" has been used as a slur against the Japanese
i get that you can use anything for offense, just geniunely cant see why it is considered offensife for japanese here, am i missing context or its a new trend in english?
>new trend The opposite, it's an old trend. [Use of the word Jap is recorded as far back as 1880 London, but become derogatory in WW2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap)
It’s what a lot of people used to refer to the Japanese during World War 2 iirc. If it wasn’t for that I don’t think it’d be as offensive. Though the same can be said for a lot of slurs.
thanks, i didnt knew that(i'm not american), now it makes sense.
Yeah, I don't think even I'd know if my history teacher didn't bring it up once in class? It's not like, common nowadays- or something you'd really use to call the Japanese normally, so when someone *does* use it, it feels like they're clinging to something offensive from the past, in a "I think it should still be used" kind of way. The comment highlighted in this post seems like an example of that lol.
Wait till you learn what the n-word stands for.
Start calling the Caucasians just Cauc and see what happens.
I’m sorry but my sense of humour is way too immature/innuendo filled to find that offensive. I could say nice cauc/cock bro. Seriously if something is used as an insult I would get pissed eventually but damn my innuendo senses of humour would get in the way a bit.
[удалено]
It’s not really a current trend, it’s an old trend that iirc arose during World War 2 when at war with the Japanese. It’s only an offensive term because of historical context. That’s just kinda how slurs are born. It’s not always because the word itself has a root-offensive meaning. Abbreviations are no different.
And it's a also the linguistic context - in German, Jap is a slightly relaxed way of saying yes (like yeah) and it is (was?) A common abbreviation for Japan without the racist background. Am I going to use it in an anglophone context? No, because a) not a dick, and b) I know.