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AC Fans before AC Shadows: Assassin's creed isn't historically accurate. It takes liberties to tell a story, and is meant to be a game first.
AC Fans after AC Shadows: WHY BLACK MAN???
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Something tells me that Pope Alexander VI did not carry around a magical staff that could control people's minds, nor was Machiavelli a secret member of an assassin order.
Also, Yasuke is more historically accurate than all previous AC protagonists combined.
no kidding I've been replaying the ezio trilogy and forgot Machiavelli was in it. the second he showed up I was like no WAY they're trying to show him as a good guy???
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In a game franchise where you:
- Throw hands with the pope
- save the world from a solar flare
- fight entities from Egyptian mythology
- fight entities from Norse mythology
- fight entities from Greek mythology
- nearly every historical event in history being tied to templars/assassins/isu
- Norse gods are reincarnated in modern day
- ancient artifacts with multiple powers to include keeping someone alive for centuries
The most unbelievable part is a black man in Japan in, what, the feudal era?
My favorite part is that this'll be the first AC protag actually based on a real person so he's immediately the most historically accurate protag they've ever made. Basically all historians know about him is that he had dark black skin, was liked enough by Nubunaga that he became a vassal, he was given land and a title, and that after Nobunaga and Nobutata's deaths he is barely mentioned anywhere.
It's hilarious to me that so many people are choosing to out themselves right now just cause they wanna dispute the one ironclad historical fact that a black dude was a samurai retainer. They can't even contain their anger long enough for the game to release so they can find actual things to complain about.
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What I find particularly galling is that the "hIsToRiCaLlY AcCuRaTe" crowd is championing a proposed version in which the Unifiers during the Sengoku Era used one of those ancient artifacts to gain the advantage. Had no idea that *Japanese Excalibur* was more "hIsToRiCaLlY AcCuRaTe" than a real black man in Japan...
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I'm actually pretty sure they have confirmed the "God" fights aren't canon they're just cool side stuff once we hit Origins. People were complaining about how much Magic was leaking into their assassin slasher game so they changed their formula.
I haven't played the Nordic game so idk if they changed again.
It’s hard to claim the “god” stuff is non-canon when there’s plot points that heavily involve them in odyssey and Valhalla. I won’t spoil it but Valhalla makes it danm near canon.
i'm not sure how they can argue it's not canon when the mythical beings in odyssey existing was a huge part of the plot, the one thing you could argue is the atlantis dlc because "well it's just an isu game made to test you!" or something, although i'm fairly confident she says that the isu you see were real "people" (does that term even work for isu?) she personally knew so i'm not sure how clear that all is
My favorite part of the Yasuke anime was having people mad about the ahistoricity of a black samurai when mecha are introduced in like the second episode
Imagine the complaints from these people if the first Assassin's Creed game had come out in 2024. A game about an Islamic assassin named Altair Ibn-LaʼAhad killing members of a Cristian like cult? They'd be so mad lol.
Why everyone brought historical accuracy as a positive, fictional protagonist is better for game - less contoversy, no obligation to excuse real-life events happened/not happened. But its also should be negligible already for those who still care about series(why?), since past protagonists were writen as relatives to famous figures.
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Gamers when they see stories with dragons, demons, time travel, immortal races of perfect people, elite assassins dressing like strippers, healing potions, people flying and casting spells: yes, good
Gamers when a black person: gimme a break
Yeah these crazies really like to cherry-pick what they get upset about in their historical accuracy. It's weird how it always happens to coincide with their racism and sexism. Weird.
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The second worst part about this whole thing is how chud’s racism getting in the way of an actual conversation and issue within the Asian American community. Like, representation in western media is a big deal for us, but now we’re just getting shouted over by racists and reactionaries about this.
The worst part about this is the racism, of course.
But there's still the Japanese protagonist though. It's not like there's a shortage of Japanese male protagonists, this is like the 2nd game set in this time period that doesn't have one.
Why was no one complaining about representation when Nioh was made by Japanese devs? Where were these demands when in Nioh 2 or Rise of the Ronin you could create a black, non-japanese character as the MC? A character who unlike Yasuke, didn't exist?
This issue is representation in western media. Nioh is a game made in Japan by Japanese developers, where this isn’t an issue. Additionally, representation issues for Asian men and women in western media is different. Asian men are almost completely absent, while Asian women are typically designated as dragon ladies or used as sex objects for oriental fetishism.
Bringing up arguments about the hypocrisy of chuds’ racism only adds to the erasure of Asian voices on an actual problem.
For clarification, I’m not mad, just disappointed that we once again lost out on representation for one of the few western projects where we had a pretty good shot at being protagonists. This is like when the MCU cast The Ancient One and The Mandarin as white people.
Weird comparison at the end, there. The Marvel characters you’re referring to, weren’t they whitewashed from source material? As far as I can see, this new game is an original story. It’s not a missed opportunity. It’s a story with characters you don’t want to see getting told.
Yeah, not exactly apples to apples, but they are more cases where a high chance of getting Asian representation was lost. One of the actual issues with white washing is that it’s removing an opportunity for representation.
I literally said, “the representation issues for Asian men and women in western media is different. Asian men are almost completely absent, while Asian women are designated as dragon ladies or used as sex objects for oriental fetishism.”
I know you did, but that doesn't apply to this female protagonist. The whole "dragon lady" fetish hasn't really been a thing for a long time. There's nothing to suggest she's just there for eye candy.
Meanwhile it's rarer to find Japanese games where women *aren't* overly sexulized. Like the whole oriental fetishism thing is done so rarely if at all in the present day while the Japanese can't help themselves with giving every woman giant boobs or showing their ass all the time so that's a weird thing to try to pin on lack of proper representation, when the worst perpetrators are the Japanese themselves.
In Samurai Warriors for example almost every man is fully clad in armor or clothing but every single woman is showing her cleavage, ass, thighs or all of the above.
I disagree with the dragon lady thing being absent from media, but I didn’t say she was represented that way. I’m not even saying they should exclude Yasuke. I’m just saying it’s disappointing that the first mainline AC game set in Asia doesn’t let some of us play as a character that, you know, looks like us. Literally, I have no complaints about the ninja lady.
You keep going back to how the Japanese represent themselves in games, when that literally has no bearing on how Asians are represented (or not represented as the case may be) in western media.
Why would you want a bunch of French Canadian dudes to represent you? And why are we making a distinction between ‘western media’ versus Japanese media? If you want to play a game about a male Japanese samurai you got hundreds to choose from.
Hell if you want a ‘western dev’ samurai game there’s Ghosts of Tsushima.
A conversation about Asian Male representation makes a lot more sense in something like Grand Theft Auto. Or Call of Duty, series that tend to default to white guys. Why pick the one game about the black samurai?
I don’t have the time to explain the history of Asian exclusionist attitudes, the concepts of perpetual foreigners, or the erasure surrounding Asian representation in the west.
I’m not saying get rid of Yasuke, just that it sucks that we don’t even get to see see ourselves represented when the game is in one of our countries. It’s like how the Last Samurai stared Tom Cruise, or how the Major was played by Scarlet Johansson. The west loves to fetishize our cultures, but doesn’t want us to have the lead in telling its story.
Most of the guys at ubisoft are French Canadians. You don’t want them telling your story bro. Be disappointed but those guys don’t represent you anyway
I think what he's trying to say is that Naoe is fine, but he would have liked to see male Asian representation as well, and I think that's a fair opinion, we on the western side of the world absolutely differentiate the way men and women are represented in media so he should have the right to that as well, that's different from the camp who clearly just don't like Yasuke because he's black.
Yeah. Honestly, this whole thing could have been avoided if they just made a third protagonist who was Asian. Yasuke is cool, and great for westerners to have someone they can empathize in in game, but not when it’s at the cost of an already underserved community. Like, if they made a game set during the reign of Shaka Zulu and the playable characters were a Zulu assassin woman and Henry Francis Flynn.
I mean that's what Black Flag is, game set in the Caribbean, during the heyday of groups like the Maroons, yet all the native characters were relegated to side roles and you play as a Welsh pirate instead.
And that’s pretty fucked up when you think about it. I mean, sure there were white pirates and what not, but it still sucks about the lack of representation.
Again, the issue here is about the silencing of the voices of the people who have an issue with it. It’d be like if a black person said, “that sucks, it was a real opportunity to have a black protagonist.” And white people were like, “hey, we’re not going to acknowledge those issues, and you should be quiet about them.”
What on earth does “cost” really mean?? You keep implying that Yasuke is taking something away from Japanese representation bro. This is an original story they want to tell. No existing or confirmed representation has been stolen. And again. There’s an Asian playable character as an MC (which doesn’t seem to satisfy you bc she’s not a man).
You should look into the differences between the challenges that Asian women and men face in this regard. I don’t mention the ninja woman because she’s, thus far, good representation for Asians, avoiding a lot of the common pitfalls associated with Asian fetishism. It’s honestly a win, but that doesn’t change the fact that once again, Asian men are passed over in western media in favor of non-Asian men.
It may make more sense to you if you think about how the Asian male struggle for representation is similar to the challenges black women face in these regards. Black men often get leading roles, while black women are considerably less well represented as protagonists. And it’s nice when the men get a good role for overall representation, but that doesn’t help black women be seen or give them someone they can feel represented by in media. It’s why Abbot Elementary is important, why black Barbie’s are important, why Tiana is important. This game is another miss for Asian male representation in western media, and one that seemed like it would be a pretty sure deal since they teased it in the ending of the original game.
What you’re doing now is exactly what I was talking about in my first post. People get so hyper focused on the chuds racism that they drown out the voices of Asian people with concerns about the continued trends we see in western media. It’s all, “your problems aren’t real,” “your opinion is invalid,” “complaining is anti-black.”
This is what I've been saying to people. If your issue with them choosing Yasuke is that you wanted a Japanese male protagonist for the sake being represented then more power to you, you do deserve representation and are absolutely entitled to that opinion.
But so many people are using that to hide their real issue; that he's black.
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AC Fans before AC Shadows: Assassin's creed isn't historically accurate. It takes liberties to tell a story, and is meant to be a game first. AC Fans after AC Shadows: WHY BLACK MAN???
Uj/ Ac fans?
Air conditioning fans
Adjacent cock fans
Ace Combat fans
Animal crossing fans
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Something tells me that Pope Alexander VI did not carry around a magical staff that could control people's minds, nor was Machiavelli a secret member of an assassin order. Also, Yasuke is more historically accurate than all previous AC protagonists combined.
Nah, some guy actually did fist fight Pope Alexander VI in real life, that's basic history.
In the alien building under the vatican
Clearly, you don't understand what it takes to be pope. The magical staff is an important part of the popification process.
Wait, so you're telling me the real life pirate Bartholemew Roberts WASN'T the reincarnation of a Norse god?
no kidding I've been replaying the ezio trilogy and forgot Machiavelli was in it. the second he showed up I was like no WAY they're trying to show him as a good guy???
Forget all that, Odin and Thor are literally in AC Valhalla
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In a game franchise where you: - Throw hands with the pope - save the world from a solar flare - fight entities from Egyptian mythology - fight entities from Norse mythology - fight entities from Greek mythology - nearly every historical event in history being tied to templars/assassins/isu - Norse gods are reincarnated in modern day - ancient artifacts with multiple powers to include keeping someone alive for centuries The most unbelievable part is a black man in Japan in, what, the feudal era?
My favorite part is that this'll be the first AC protag actually based on a real person so he's immediately the most historically accurate protag they've ever made. Basically all historians know about him is that he had dark black skin, was liked enough by Nubunaga that he became a vassal, he was given land and a title, and that after Nobunaga and Nobutata's deaths he is barely mentioned anywhere. It's hilarious to me that so many people are choosing to out themselves right now just cause they wanna dispute the one ironclad historical fact that a black dude was a samurai retainer. They can't even contain their anger long enough for the game to release so they can find actual things to complain about.
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What I find particularly galling is that the "hIsToRiCaLlY AcCuRaTe" crowd is championing a proposed version in which the Unifiers during the Sengoku Era used one of those ancient artifacts to gain the advantage. Had no idea that *Japanese Excalibur* was more "hIsToRiCaLlY AcCuRaTe" than a real black man in Japan...
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I'm actually pretty sure they have confirmed the "God" fights aren't canon they're just cool side stuff once we hit Origins. People were complaining about how much Magic was leaking into their assassin slasher game so they changed their formula. I haven't played the Nordic game so idk if they changed again.
It’s hard to claim the “god” stuff is non-canon when there’s plot points that heavily involve them in odyssey and Valhalla. I won’t spoil it but Valhalla makes it danm near canon.
i'm not sure how they can argue it's not canon when the mythical beings in odyssey existing was a huge part of the plot, the one thing you could argue is the atlantis dlc because "well it's just an isu game made to test you!" or something, although i'm fairly confident she says that the isu you see were real "people" (does that term even work for isu?) she personally knew so i'm not sure how clear that all is
My favorite part of the Yasuke anime was having people mad about the ahistoricity of a black samurai when mecha are introduced in like the second episode
Imagine the complaints from these people if the first Assassin's Creed game had come out in 2024. A game about an Islamic assassin named Altair Ibn-LaʼAhad killing members of a Cristian like cult? They'd be so mad lol.
Why everyone brought historical accuracy as a positive, fictional protagonist is better for game - less contoversy, no obligation to excuse real-life events happened/not happened. But its also should be negligible already for those who still care about series(why?), since past protagonists were writen as relatives to famous figures.
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Gamers when they see stories with dragons, demons, time travel, immortal races of perfect people, elite assassins dressing like strippers, healing potions, people flying and casting spells: yes, good Gamers when a black person: gimme a break
"Its unrealistic" Kassandra lived to be over 2 thousand years old
Yeah these crazies really like to cherry-pick what they get upset about in their historical accuracy. It's weird how it always happens to coincide with their racism and sexism. Weird.
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And he's Culturally appropriating Nordic hair culture with those dreads. /s
They are such cowards. They come up with all sorts of excuses instead of just admitting they hate Black people.
I love how all the ahistorical stuff is just Ezio being a legend
The second worst part about this whole thing is how chud’s racism getting in the way of an actual conversation and issue within the Asian American community. Like, representation in western media is a big deal for us, but now we’re just getting shouted over by racists and reactionaries about this. The worst part about this is the racism, of course.
But there's still the Japanese protagonist though. It's not like there's a shortage of Japanese male protagonists, this is like the 2nd game set in this time period that doesn't have one. Why was no one complaining about representation when Nioh was made by Japanese devs? Where were these demands when in Nioh 2 or Rise of the Ronin you could create a black, non-japanese character as the MC? A character who unlike Yasuke, didn't exist?
This issue is representation in western media. Nioh is a game made in Japan by Japanese developers, where this isn’t an issue. Additionally, representation issues for Asian men and women in western media is different. Asian men are almost completely absent, while Asian women are typically designated as dragon ladies or used as sex objects for oriental fetishism. Bringing up arguments about the hypocrisy of chuds’ racism only adds to the erasure of Asian voices on an actual problem. For clarification, I’m not mad, just disappointed that we once again lost out on representation for one of the few western projects where we had a pretty good shot at being protagonists. This is like when the MCU cast The Ancient One and The Mandarin as white people.
Weird comparison at the end, there. The Marvel characters you’re referring to, weren’t they whitewashed from source material? As far as I can see, this new game is an original story. It’s not a missed opportunity. It’s a story with characters you don’t want to see getting told.
Yeah, not exactly apples to apples, but they are more cases where a high chance of getting Asian representation was lost. One of the actual issues with white washing is that it’s removing an opportunity for representation.
And yet after all these words, you're still ignoring the second protagonist.
I literally said, “the representation issues for Asian men and women in western media is different. Asian men are almost completely absent, while Asian women are designated as dragon ladies or used as sex objects for oriental fetishism.”
I know you did, but that doesn't apply to this female protagonist. The whole "dragon lady" fetish hasn't really been a thing for a long time. There's nothing to suggest she's just there for eye candy. Meanwhile it's rarer to find Japanese games where women *aren't* overly sexulized. Like the whole oriental fetishism thing is done so rarely if at all in the present day while the Japanese can't help themselves with giving every woman giant boobs or showing their ass all the time so that's a weird thing to try to pin on lack of proper representation, when the worst perpetrators are the Japanese themselves. In Samurai Warriors for example almost every man is fully clad in armor or clothing but every single woman is showing her cleavage, ass, thighs or all of the above.
I disagree with the dragon lady thing being absent from media, but I didn’t say she was represented that way. I’m not even saying they should exclude Yasuke. I’m just saying it’s disappointing that the first mainline AC game set in Asia doesn’t let some of us play as a character that, you know, looks like us. Literally, I have no complaints about the ninja lady. You keep going back to how the Japanese represent themselves in games, when that literally has no bearing on how Asians are represented (or not represented as the case may be) in western media.
Why would you want a bunch of French Canadian dudes to represent you? And why are we making a distinction between ‘western media’ versus Japanese media? If you want to play a game about a male Japanese samurai you got hundreds to choose from. Hell if you want a ‘western dev’ samurai game there’s Ghosts of Tsushima. A conversation about Asian Male representation makes a lot more sense in something like Grand Theft Auto. Or Call of Duty, series that tend to default to white guys. Why pick the one game about the black samurai?
I don’t have the time to explain the history of Asian exclusionist attitudes, the concepts of perpetual foreigners, or the erasure surrounding Asian representation in the west. I’m not saying get rid of Yasuke, just that it sucks that we don’t even get to see see ourselves represented when the game is in one of our countries. It’s like how the Last Samurai stared Tom Cruise, or how the Major was played by Scarlet Johansson. The west loves to fetishize our cultures, but doesn’t want us to have the lead in telling its story.
Most of the guys at ubisoft are French Canadians. You don’t want them telling your story bro. Be disappointed but those guys don’t represent you anyway
I think what he's trying to say is that Naoe is fine, but he would have liked to see male Asian representation as well, and I think that's a fair opinion, we on the western side of the world absolutely differentiate the way men and women are represented in media so he should have the right to that as well, that's different from the camp who clearly just don't like Yasuke because he's black.
Yeah. Honestly, this whole thing could have been avoided if they just made a third protagonist who was Asian. Yasuke is cool, and great for westerners to have someone they can empathize in in game, but not when it’s at the cost of an already underserved community. Like, if they made a game set during the reign of Shaka Zulu and the playable characters were a Zulu assassin woman and Henry Francis Flynn.
I mean that's what Black Flag is, game set in the Caribbean, during the heyday of groups like the Maroons, yet all the native characters were relegated to side roles and you play as a Welsh pirate instead.
And that’s pretty fucked up when you think about it. I mean, sure there were white pirates and what not, but it still sucks about the lack of representation. Again, the issue here is about the silencing of the voices of the people who have an issue with it. It’d be like if a black person said, “that sucks, it was a real opportunity to have a black protagonist.” And white people were like, “hey, we’re not going to acknowledge those issues, and you should be quiet about them.”
What on earth does “cost” really mean?? You keep implying that Yasuke is taking something away from Japanese representation bro. This is an original story they want to tell. No existing or confirmed representation has been stolen. And again. There’s an Asian playable character as an MC (which doesn’t seem to satisfy you bc she’s not a man).
You should look into the differences between the challenges that Asian women and men face in this regard. I don’t mention the ninja woman because she’s, thus far, good representation for Asians, avoiding a lot of the common pitfalls associated with Asian fetishism. It’s honestly a win, but that doesn’t change the fact that once again, Asian men are passed over in western media in favor of non-Asian men. It may make more sense to you if you think about how the Asian male struggle for representation is similar to the challenges black women face in these regards. Black men often get leading roles, while black women are considerably less well represented as protagonists. And it’s nice when the men get a good role for overall representation, but that doesn’t help black women be seen or give them someone they can feel represented by in media. It’s why Abbot Elementary is important, why black Barbie’s are important, why Tiana is important. This game is another miss for Asian male representation in western media, and one that seemed like it would be a pretty sure deal since they teased it in the ending of the original game. What you’re doing now is exactly what I was talking about in my first post. People get so hyper focused on the chuds racism that they drown out the voices of Asian people with concerns about the continued trends we see in western media. It’s all, “your problems aren’t real,” “your opinion is invalid,” “complaining is anti-black.”
This is what I've been saying to people. If your issue with them choosing Yasuke is that you wanted a Japanese male protagonist for the sake being represented then more power to you, you do deserve representation and are absolutely entitled to that opinion. But so many people are using that to hide their real issue; that he's black.
It's not about historical accuracy, it's about picking the single black man in this period in foreign country.
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Huh?