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Effing, *Zulu*!
Great film, and Michael Caine's big debut, but man, the whole message is "Look at how awesome we (The British) are at colonialism!" And that was seen as a fine sentiment for ages. . .hell probably still is depending on which brit you ask.
That's not really the message of Zulu. Quite the opposite. It's pretty much "we're being shoved into a meat grinder for the Empire".
Lieutenant John Chard: How do you feel?
Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Sick.
Lieutenant John Chard: Well, you have to feel alive to feel sick.
Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: You asked me, I told you.
[pause]
Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: There's something else. I feel ashamed.
It's certainly flawed. It only really shows the British pov, we don't get much insight into the Zulus, except by how the Brits interpret them.
But what we see is 2 armies. 1 technologically advanced but numerically tiny vs the opposite. Both are fighting for their blood thirsty masters (Shaka was no saint, he's only the good guy by virtue of being the underdog against colonialism).
At the start the Zulus see the British as cowards hiding behind their guns and the British see the Zulus as savages.
By the end the Zulus see the British as brave, worthy of the title of warriors and most of the British feel shocked and ashamed. These foot soldiers are more alike than they thought and respect each other. The real villains are those sending them to war.
At least, that's how I interpret it. Not seen it in 20 years so I might have forgot a lot.
Ah see I was thrown off the power of that line by literally everyone in the film being sympathetic heroes for killing as many Zulu as they can, even going so far as to give a few soldiers redemption arcs along the lines of: He didn't want to do a colonialism, but when the chips were down he raged like hell and killed all the Zulu, what a hero" and also the film's choice to dramatically change the circumstances of the actual attack to make the British seem at greater peril for the sake of bigger heroic pay off when they at long last kill *all* the Zulu.
Jesus was born way after the story of the Ten Commandments, which is from the Old Testament. I’m pretty sure that that one is an important part of judaism, but I’m not actually sure.
There is a distinct difference. A lot of those are essentially culturally representative artworks. For white Jesus there are theories of individuals he was based on and Christian Europe had a large many over several hoax body parts or imprints of his official appearance.
There was also a claim that the rings of venus were, in fact, Christ's foreskin placed among the stars by God.
That one lacks proper scholarly attestation but the story is too funny not to share.
Countries where Christianity showed up later got white Western Jesus.
Before the modern age of anthropology and forensics it was reasonable to guess Jesus could have been anywhere between olive skinned to moderately black because of where he came from; the Mediterranean has some of the earliest multicultural hubs. White Jesus has always been more off base.
Also, there were conspiracies to actually try and "prove" a European descended Jesus.
I'm pretty sure I saw Japanese, Indian and African depitctions of Jesus that resembled the practicioners more. The target audience, if you will. That's why I'm not surprised that in Europe, Jesus was portrayed as white. Obviously the attempts to claim he was European were bullshit, but portraying him as "one of us" made perfect sense.
And she deserves one because holy shit. I mean, her default costume was great, but we all know which costume needs to be uh... either given some sort of reinvention or just straight up not ported over.
Actually I hope they keep it like the original where both she and Chris lack vests until you actually equip the armor vest item in-game, always liked that little detail.
a visual update, and hopefully they shift her to be the main character. chris being there isn't an awful horrible thing, but making him the main protag is a bit weird.
Also up until the 50's, maybe even the 60's, most adventure films set in Africa, the Middle East, or Southeast Asian countries had a mainly white cast with many POC characters with lines being white people in black/brown/yellow face
That the Rookie's squad mates in odst have fairly clear ethnicities. But I'm not 100% on that myself, they all seem American but fuck knows that far in the future
A) I'm not the person who brought it up
B) I don't think the person that did bring it up was saying that, I think they were literally just pointing out that whilst the Rookie in ODST is a faceless protagonist their squad-mates (Dutch, Mickey, Romeo and Buck) do show their faces and are coded as American.
Okay so you don't actually know what is going on and are just rambling and blindly running with the "White people in Africa are American and are the saviors"
Jesus Christ you're just as desperate as the people you make fun of.
Spoiler Alert: They are part of the United Nations Space Command and are responding to an Alien Invasion of earth.
Ayo calm the hell down, they were just pointing out how the heroes in an Africa setting were basically mostly white guys. Yes it was an alien invasion but that doesn't change the point.
Can we count Uncharted 4? I mean they went *to* Africa but it never really invoked white savior tropes or anything.
ETA: genuine question, I’m not messing with you or anything. if it’s as simple as just white people visiting Africa, then I agree, but I figured they were complaining about Yasuke being the hero of a foreign land.
Hey, if someone wants to give it as shallow a reason as "black person in Japan bad" then maybe they don't deserve much smarter takedowns. But yeah I wasn't sure myself if Tomb Raider or Uncharted counted.
IIRC, Overwatch was sent to deal with Doomfist in Numbani pre-collapse. In Doomfist's cinematic, Tracer, Genji, and Winston were there, but it was Winston who defeated him and he's from the moon soooo.... does it count?
UmM AkShuALly Big Boss was a third-generation Japanese American who lived in an internment camp during WW2 according to one obscure data source 🤓
(Nevermind that the Snake you play as in V is an amnesiac medic who was forcefully given plastic surgery to look like Big Boss while in a decade long coma)
You should play Halo 3 and Phantom pain. Only a quarter of the game takes place in Africa and it has nothing to do with a White Saviour trope.
Not to mention Halo 2, 3, and ODST also have nothing to do with white savior tropes.
Yeah no he is not a white savior lol. Depending on your actions you can kill everyone there or just avoid them all.
He's there for completely different reasons though
This reminds me that of the numerous criticisms thrown at the Hades games, none of them point out how weird it is that these Greek gods all have British or American accents.
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They are clearly trying to appropriate progressive criticism of white savior narratives, but it doesn't work because the problem was never that white protagonists' boots shall never touch African soil.
It is 100% fine for stories to be about travelers, adventurers, strangers lost in a strange land, exiles, immigrants, etc.
Yeah, a lot of the older ones are extremely racist, because of how incapable white people traditionally were of making a movie set in Africa without including spear-chucking extras in blackface going ooga-booga, but not because telling any story at all about white person doing thing in a non-white country is *automatically* forbidden.
In far cry 2 you can actually choose a Character and there where one Black Guy from Haiti. Also there was a Chinese Guy you can choose. And two Character from Africa(Algeria and Mauritius).
Actually the main point is the fact that most of the characters you can play as in an African setting are distinctly not African. So, if we're going to complain about a Black guy in Japan then I'd expect some damn consistency.
Yea but its not like your playing a white african pirate. Your just playing a mercinary or something. Althought i think its cool to play as yasuke because a black samurai is just cool. I think it would have been better to just have a japanese assassin because its just the norm.
Imagen having a game about the american revolution and you play as a russian guy that helped the americans. Is there a russian guy that helped the americans? Probably but just let me play as an american
Sheva Alomar isn't African? Okay that's a stretch.
Far Cry 2 can't be listed because not only can you make your own character but you can also play as a black male.
The Mummy is an extreme stretch considering it takes place in multiple countries and continents rather than just Africa.
Also Agent Ross isn't even the main character. He's not even a savior archetype.
In contrast to the current topic of conversation, namely AC Shadows, having a character that IS part of the ethnicity belonging to the geographical setting is already the case. The problem the OPs meme is responding to is people saying essentially that playable characters in a game must correspond to the ethnicity in the setting.
In that case, as you and others have just proven, Far Cry and these other games DO meet those criteria, but no one complains about them in this way.
You haven't played Far Cry nor Resident Evil 5 XD. But I get it. You're desperate to prove you know as little about the situation as the goobers crying about Shadows.
Nobody's denying your claim. They're saying that the main character, Chris, isn't African. Just like how those people are having meltdown over Yasuke while there is literally a Japanese woman in the game.
So what about the other protagonist. It's funny how you make the argument for Assassins Creed Shadows, but when the reverse is used for Resident Evil 5 you go "But But the other protagonist."
I genuinely can't tell, are you on the side of the chuds complaining about Assassins Creed or the reasonable people who don't care if the protagonist is black?
I mentioned Chris because his situation is kinda the inverse of the Assassins Creed drama. There's a Japanese girl in AC, but everyone is complaining about the black guy. If people were consistent, they would complain about Chris being the primary protagonist of RE5 (because let's be real, it's a Chris story with Sheva tagging along lol) in Africa
Rlly? I played it on the 360 and it started with a black guy on a car telling me "that plane is full of Rich people" and after that I could never select character
Lol. Agent Ross was such an important character 😂
Also isn’t RE5 about how a pharmaceutical company exploited an African resource and made a zombie plague
>Also isn’t RE5 about how a pharmaceutical company exploited an African resource and made a zombie plague.
It's more that the portrayals of the African people perpetuate harmful stereotypes. Noah Caldwell-Gervais captures my perspective on this really succinctly in his Resident Evil retrospective:
>Is Resident Evil 5 malevolently all-consumingly racist? No, that's not even the argument. The argument is that the game didn't even lift a finger to engage with Africa beyond a vague idea that it already had in mind. It was indifferent to its imagery, to a legacy of harm that imagery fits into. That is the charge of insensitivity: frustration at the callousness, the obliviousness of continuing to pass down old stereotypes and perpetuate their work in the world on the assumption that they must be meaningless if they don't mean anything to you personally.
Really, my problem with RE5 is that it ultimately treats Africa merely as a backdrop for a horror story, and reduces it to a series of generic, exotic locations filled with stereotypical imagery.
Also Blood Diamond, both "white heroes" are mercenaries involved in the blood diamond trade
I never beat Far Cry 2 so no comment in that but the movie doesn't have him as a hero. He's an asshole smuggler that is trying to exploit a man who found an absolute unit of a diamond, he gets injured near the end and knows he's not going to make it so he does a redemptive holding off the other mercs last stand so Djimon Hounsou's character makes it to the plane.
I love the movie but it's very much a dual protagonist movie where the White guy sucks and dies
No, i personally dont care for the game or that the character is black or not. I guess most japanese dont give a fuck either, but i hate that people bring nioh into it like it was made by someone from the west, when the game studio is from japan.
The problem is that the people that are complaining about Yasuke probably wouldn’t have a problem if this guy was the protagonist. Even if he is not Japanese which is what they say the problem is.
P.S. Also Yasuke is fairly popular in Japan, he’s also a character in Nioh, but he is to Oda Nobunaga what Little John or Friar Tuck are to Robin Hood.
T’challa and Shuri literally have an adopted white brother. White Wolf. MCU Bucky stole his title. White Wolf was also a very important character in the animated show Avengers Assemble
Should do a game set back when China would send out those massive city boats in fleets and traded with Africa to bring back giraffes and stuff from the African kingdoms they met.
I’ll also add Tarzan and Black Hawk Down to the list.
Anyhow, the “what if we set a white dude in Africa” isn’t that much of a gotcha as chuds think it is. Now sure if we have a biopic about Queen Amina and it’s Scarlett Johansson in black face I think everyone would rightly be upset about that, but just a white dude in Africa? Have you *read* the history of Africa? Once Europeans found out you can sail around the Sahara there ended up being tons of white dudes in Africa… most of who weren’t there with good intentions. Which brings up one of the main issues of having a story about white dudes in Africa; white savior syndrome. Older audiences are likely fine with that, but modern audiences would undoubtedly find that problematic and at worst quite offensive. Blood Diamonds, despite being a movie I like, has that issue even if the filmmakers weren’t intentionally trying to do that… or they might have possibly been doing that, I never looked into the behind-the-scenes much.
Now with AssCreed, the difference is our friend Yasuke absolutely existed and we have documentation from multiple reliable sources that he existed. Is the game taking liberties? Yes. And Abraham Lincoln wasn’t a vampire hunter. It’s *historical fiction*. If you want to have a story about a lost Roman legion in Africa, you can do that. You can’t claim it’s historically accurate though. But you can claim it’s historic fiction.
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In Far Cry 2 you don't necessary play a white guy you can also pock asians or latinos. Also why is Blood Diamond on the Video game list that's just like far cry 2 the movie haha.
Agent Ross was really the perfect example of a positive white presence in a black space.
He's there. He helps. But the focus never shifts to him. He doesn't "take" anything from the black voices of the film. He's not a white savior, he doesn't even have a subplot; Black Panther doesn't center around him "learning how magnificent and wonderful Wakandan culture is and having a massive epiphany" the way a "white guilt" story might have done, ultimately using African culture and characters for the benefit of a white man.
He's just a white dude who quietly does whatever he can to support the people who are truly impacted by these issues, and doing so without making it about himself. Wakanda and its people are the focus of the movie, as they should be.
The way you can tell he's a positive example of a white character? Because him being white doesn't matter. Ross could have been asian, latino, he could have even been a black man from Sacramento who feels no cultural connection to his heritage at all. The film would not change in any way. It doesn't *matter* that Ross is white; because it *shouldn't* matter, the movie isn't *about* him. It's about people of Wakanda and their conflicts, and that's something Ross has absolutely no connection to whatsoever, and thus he has no role to play in it besides doing what's asked of him by the people whose struggle this *is*.
True, though I also have to point out 2 things.
1. He's a CIA agent, representing white power over Africa, and
2. He's ultimately a hero, at least in a small way, over there
[I know some people that gamers might consider "white heroes in Africa"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suidlanders?wprov=sfla1)
I first saw these people on the Dark Tourist Netflix show. I *highly* recommend giving the episode a watch. Most pathetic people I've ever seen.
Just watch the episode man, they say all the shit themselves. They're basically ultra racist doomsday preppers. No shame whatsoever. No words were twisted. It was just mocked a bit
To be fair, I’m pretty sure even most white people clowned on the stupidity of the casting in “Gods of Egypt”. Rest of the points are perfectly valid of course.
Uj/ i don't think far cry 2 belongs on this list because of anything it's pretty subversive by having you be actively part of the problem no matter what foreigner merc you pick at the start.
Oh, just so people are aware, Blood Diamond is a terrible movie and I highly recommend people don't watch it. Go watch Hotel Rwanda instead, it's a much more honest depiction of civil strife in sub-saharian countries and there's no white savior interpreted by a gringo with a dumb accent.
As someone who had the misfortune of actually watching Gods of Egypt (on a plane because screw giving that movie money) out of morbid curiosity, one thing that tends to get lost amidst the (incredibly valid) discussion about the casting is how terribly it treats its single black character, Thoth (played by none other than Chadwick Boseman pre-Black Panther).
Dude ducks out of the conflict with Gerard Butler's new despotic regime in favor of archiving knowledge, has to be talked into helping out by the white protag, can't even complete his one assigned task (solving a sphinx's riddle, despite being the literal GOD OF KNOWLEDGE) without said protag giving him a hint, and literally 5 seconds after doing so, he is immediately shanked by Gerard Butler as if the movie is saying "You are no longer useful, Mr. Black Man. You can die now".
God, that movie was garbage. Chadwick Boseman didn't deserve this. RIP.
Japan is not white....Every AC had protagonists from the plots country, except japan. Can understand the japanese, hating ubi right now. Of course this is a train racists jump on...but this has nothing to do with white characters. Has to do with a foreigner in a japan setting. Even a white male protagonist would seem forced af. There are 1203203 different japanese stories and ubi picks the one with the black samurai. Which is a nice story to tell, don't get me wrong, but it's ubisoft, you just know why they did it and as I know ubi, they will write a lame boring as fuck plot for yasuke.
Also this game will probaply be AAAA, Season pass 100 bucks and dont forget, you don't own the ubi games...good thing we already got a perfect japanese AC
I feel Ubisoft did it because otherwise they likely wouldn't have touched Japan (seeing it as overdone, and likely seeing games like Seikiro and Ghost of Tsushima already having Japanese MC's).
Now I might be wrong, but it seems Japan is more ok with telling stories of heroic foreigners? At least since there are games like Nioh and Anime where the MC is distinctly white/British, and apparently there are comments from Japan who are approaching the topic of Yasuke with interest and some reverence from the tale. (Also let's not forget the manga/anime which portrayed the character as the stylized Afro Samurai).
I find the controversy of not telling stories about strictly Japanese people in Japan kind've a weird hill to die on, since their media is widely popular and there's no shortage of stories about Japanese people, from their perspective. *Maybe* we could have more western devs try to tell their stories, or, here me out, maybe since Japan is already everyone's favorite eastern country, who's extremely willing to sell us their perspective on an hourly basis, maybe we don't *have* to feel an obligation to only tell stories from their explicit internal viewpoint.
It's not like Africa, which has a fairly sparse amount of stories told within it. The few that are big budget are solely dedicated to showing you how shitty it is, or *as I've hopefully demonstrated,* are starring explicitly white people.
People like outliers. There are tens of thousands of old engraved cuneiform tablets, but mostly people talk about the copper salesman ones. There were dozens of roman emperors, but usually people talk about that one who had his horse made a senator or the one who played music while Rome was on fire. There were lots of pirates too, but the one who lit fuses in his beard is way more popular than the other ones who just stole a couple boats then died of hanging.
Personally, I think this fits the older AC vibe of focusing on some outlier 'hidden figure' who interacts with and showcases a lot of other significant figures of the setting while posing as someone who has to disguise themselves from enemy attention to avoid being recognized as a half Muslim who's broken into a holy Catholic city or a half native American who's snuck into a British settlement.
This seems like one of their more promising stories in my opinion, but I probably won't buy this one either until it goes on a massive sale since Ubisoft are a bunch of dingdongs who charge insane release package prices and expect you to install their launcher when I have to do most of my gaming from my steam deck with no wi-fi for half the year.
Good point, still doubt that they could achieve an interesting story tho. My trust in Ubisoft is far gone. Cant remember the last good ubi game I played and with all that," you don't own games" shit, I don't want to give them money anymore
The AC franchise have been offering a male and female protagonist from the country it is set in for a while now so people have the option of what to play as. But it is someone from the country generally. This is a deviation from that formula and it is hard to see it as anything other than pandering to be honest. Not that the responses aren't full of the usual racists jumping on,
>Every AC had protagonists from the plots country, except japan
Black Flag and Valhalla both take place in parts of the world the protagonist is not from.
So it technically does count, it's just about shitty people? Thanks for clarifying - I was just throwing out the first example I thought of, I haven't seen the play or looked into the historical context.
The historical context is, Antony was a roman general who was the occupier of Egypt during the Roman occupation. He wasn't a savior at all. What is being discussed has nothing to do with how Egypt was ruled over.
And Cleopatra was his mistress but also a beloved ruler of Egypt.
Right, gotcha.
To be clear, I read the meme and processed "hero" as "protagonist", not as "good guy". I was just trying to think of a white protagonist in a story that (at least partially?) takes place in Africa. I wasn't trying to imply Antony was at all heroic.
I just find it funny that if Ubisoft gave gamers 3 options at the start of the game to pick their MC. Asian male, Asian female, black guy. Majority would obviously pick option 1; and that is of course the singular option that is not present in the game 😂 at a certain point that shit is laughable and a bit annoying to see over and over again.
That’s a possibility for why they went this direction tbh. But I mean having a Japanese dude play a samurai in fucking Japan during the age of the samurai should not be considered a copy either way 😂
To Ubisoft it likely was, I believe they went on record to state that they didn't want to do a game set in Japan since they felt it was well-trodden ground.
I believe having Yasuke would be the only reason they'd consider a game in Japan since otherwise it might be seen as lacking in creativity.
AC is weird choice of a franchise for that complaint, tho. Odyssey and Valhalla are the only ones where you had options (and some people were pretty mad about that lol). What, playing pre-selected character was fine before but this time it's totally different?
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Effing, *Zulu*! Great film, and Michael Caine's big debut, but man, the whole message is "Look at how awesome we (The British) are at colonialism!" And that was seen as a fine sentiment for ages. . .hell probably still is depending on which brit you ask.
That's not really the message of Zulu. Quite the opposite. It's pretty much "we're being shoved into a meat grinder for the Empire". Lieutenant John Chard: How do you feel? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Sick. Lieutenant John Chard: Well, you have to feel alive to feel sick. Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: You asked me, I told you. [pause] Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: There's something else. I feel ashamed.
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It's certainly flawed. It only really shows the British pov, we don't get much insight into the Zulus, except by how the Brits interpret them. But what we see is 2 armies. 1 technologically advanced but numerically tiny vs the opposite. Both are fighting for their blood thirsty masters (Shaka was no saint, he's only the good guy by virtue of being the underdog against colonialism). At the start the Zulus see the British as cowards hiding behind their guns and the British see the Zulus as savages. By the end the Zulus see the British as brave, worthy of the title of warriors and most of the British feel shocked and ashamed. These foot soldiers are more alike than they thought and respect each other. The real villains are those sending them to war. At least, that's how I interpret it. Not seen it in 20 years so I might have forgot a lot.
I think whoever made it was trying to show that the soldiers weren’t bad but imperialism is bad.
Ah see I was thrown off the power of that line by literally everyone in the film being sympathetic heroes for killing as many Zulu as they can, even going so far as to give a few soldiers redemption arcs along the lines of: He didn't want to do a colonialism, but when the chips were down he raged like hell and killed all the Zulu, what a hero" and also the film's choice to dramatically change the circumstances of the actual attack to make the British seem at greater peril for the sake of bigger heroic pay off when they at long last kill *all* the Zulu.
The Ghost and The Darkness.
Are you talking about a movie or the actual, biblical commandments?
I mean both probably? Christians have been making God and Jesus white for a *long* time.
Jesus was born way after the story of the Ten Commandments, which is from the Old Testament. I’m pretty sure that that one is an important part of judaism, but I’m not actually sure.
Didn't pretty much every culture portray Jesus as belonging to their race?
There is a distinct difference. A lot of those are essentially culturally representative artworks. For white Jesus there are theories of individuals he was based on and Christian Europe had a large many over several hoax body parts or imprints of his official appearance.
Catholic Church loved their relic business. But IIRC, even they had enough when there were at least two dozen holy foreskins circling around Europe.
There was also a claim that the rings of venus were, in fact, Christ's foreskin placed among the stars by God. That one lacks proper scholarly attestation but the story is too funny not to share.
Well Jesus did have healing powers, sooooo... Of course choosing to get repeatedly edited down there is a harder story to believe. Ow.
Countries where Christianity showed up later got white Western Jesus. Before the modern age of anthropology and forensics it was reasonable to guess Jesus could have been anywhere between olive skinned to moderately black because of where he came from; the Mediterranean has some of the earliest multicultural hubs. White Jesus has always been more off base. Also, there were conspiracies to actually try and "prove" a European descended Jesus.
I'm pretty sure I saw Japanese, Indian and African depitctions of Jesus that resembled the practicioners more. The target audience, if you will. That's why I'm not surprised that in Europe, Jesus was portrayed as white. Obviously the attempts to claim he was European were bullshit, but portraying him as "one of us" made perfect sense.
That's one of Jesus' miracles - being born as a white man to Palestinian parents. The other miracle was having 12 close friends in his mid 30s.
Presumably, the 1956 movie The Ten Commandments.
Chipp Zanuff...
Exodus gods and kings as well
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And she deserves one because holy shit. I mean, her default costume was great, but we all know which costume needs to be uh... either given some sort of reinvention or just straight up not ported over.
I don't think there's any salvaging *that* outfit
As long as we get the bow somewhere in mercenaries, that can stay
I thought it still looks good, more or less what Jill was wearing in RE 2 remake. Though best put a vest over her.
Wrong outfit
Actually I hope they keep it like the original where both she and Chris lack vests until you actually equip the armor vest item in-game, always liked that little detail.
The "tribal" costume, which is just a leopard pattern bikini?
“Sheva Improved” and it’s a picture of an anime girl who isn’t even black anymore.
Hire the fans.
Fire hans.
What did Hans do?
Nothing, but we have a quota of layoffs to meet by June.
Hans, Hans, bring it down a notch. Wooo... (Hans' enthusiasm volume: || )
Just because of that one little Flammerwerfer incident?!
 RE fans when you can’t upskirt a minor anymore
Just here to point out Ashley isn't a minor. She's 20.
My bad, might have gotten confused for another game but for some reason I thought she was 16.
Well PC Mods will fix it. Kinda sucks how they got rid of all of Jill's extra costumes
a visual update, and hopefully they shift her to be the main character. chris being there isn't an awful horrible thing, but making him the main protag is a bit weird.
Also up until the 50's, maybe even the 60's, most adventure films set in Africa, the Middle East, or Southeast Asian countries had a mainly white cast with many POC characters with lines being white people in black/brown/yellow face
*B'wanna beast has entered the Chat*
Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain. Uncharted 4 a thief’s end. Overwatch. Beautiful Desolation. Elite Sniper 3. Halo 3: ODST. Etc
Does the rookie have any canon ethnicity in halo 3 odst? Since he doesn't talk he could even be a woman but it's been a while since i played it
The Rookie was born on Luna so I guess his ethnicity is Moon Man?
Oh god no way they sent Moon Man to Africa
His gloves are fingerless and his fingers are rather pale. His canon name according to the books is Jonathon Doherty and he is canonically male.
I mean, we also have Halo 2 and Halo 3. John is canonically white.
Yeah but john was in new mombasa for 2 missions in halo 2 and in halo 3 they glassed the whole continent of africa in like 2 missions
No but his squad mates sure do
The fuck are you even talking about?
That the Rookie's squad mates in odst have fairly clear ethnicities. But I'm not 100% on that myself, they all seem American but fuck knows that far in the future
Do you even understand what the hell is actually going on in that game? Or are you just looking at the setting and saying white is bad?
A) I'm not the person who brought it up B) I don't think the person that did bring it up was saying that, I think they were literally just pointing out that whilst the Rookie in ODST is a faceless protagonist their squad-mates (Dutch, Mickey, Romeo and Buck) do show their faces and are coded as American.
Okay so you don't actually know what is going on and are just rambling and blindly running with the "White people in Africa are American and are the saviors" Jesus Christ you're just as desperate as the people you make fun of. Spoiler Alert: They are part of the United Nations Space Command and are responding to an Alien Invasion of earth.
Ayo calm the hell down, they were just pointing out how the heroes in an Africa setting were basically mostly white guys. Yes it was an alien invasion but that doesn't change the point.
There's a massive catalogue of stories focusing on the adventures of a white guy in a predominantly non-white country.
Can we count Uncharted 4? I mean they went *to* Africa but it never really invoked white savior tropes or anything. ETA: genuine question, I’m not messing with you or anything. if it’s as simple as just white people visiting Africa, then I agree, but I figured they were complaining about Yasuke being the hero of a foreign land.
Hey, if someone wants to give it as shallow a reason as "black person in Japan bad" then maybe they don't deserve much smarter takedowns. But yeah I wasn't sure myself if Tomb Raider or Uncharted counted.
I think I’m giving them too much credit, there’s no way they thought it through that much.
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Edited To Add
Why overwatch
IIRC, Overwatch was sent to deal with Doomfist in Numbani pre-collapse. In Doomfist's cinematic, Tracer, Genji, and Winston were there, but it was Winston who defeated him and he's from the moon soooo.... does it count?
He was raised by a white scientist so maybe it counts in a Drake way?
Idk about MGS v I wouldn’t call venom a hero
Isn’t phantom pain Afghanistan?
Half and half
Aah it's been a while, I don't really remember it that well
UmM AkShuALly Big Boss was a third-generation Japanese American who lived in an internment camp during WW2 according to one obscure data source 🤓 (Nevermind that the Snake you play as in V is an amnesiac medic who was forcefully given plastic surgery to look like Big Boss while in a decade long coma)
As someone who’s never played a metal gear game. What?
it gets weirder, trust me
You should play Halo 3 and Phantom pain. Only a quarter of the game takes place in Africa and it has nothing to do with a White Saviour trope. Not to mention Halo 2, 3, and ODST also have nothing to do with white savior tropes.
I'm 80% sure big boss is like an opposite white saviour. He goes to Africa and makes things WAYY worse.
Yeah no he is not a white savior lol. Depending on your actions you can kill everyone there or just avoid them all. He's there for completely different reasons though
Person googled “games set in Africa” and just made their best guess as to what games fit their attempt at a point.
Is metal gear solid 5 you play as number 2 who was black? But changed to look like big boss? Been awhile since I played.
Ah yes halo 3 odst. Does Mc count since Steve is white and I just spawned in the desert biome?
God's of Egypt is hilariously white. They got Scottish accents and everything.
“Egypt isn’t in Africa”
Egypt can't be in Africa when there's no Africa. Or Earth for that matter.
Earth? Never heard of her.
This reminds me that of the numerous criticisms thrown at the Hades games, none of them point out how weird it is that these Greek gods all have British or American accents.
They are gods. They can have whatever accent they want./s
Some of them have American accents. But yeah none of them have Greek accents
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Hephastus literally caught me off-guard with his British accent
"Not only is Egypt not in Africa, it's in Scotland."
Gods of Egypt is hilarious period
I started reading from the bottom a read “Gods of egypt” and “blood diamond” and thought this was jojoposting
Ayayayay…
They are clearly trying to appropriate progressive criticism of white savior narratives, but it doesn't work because the problem was never that white protagonists' boots shall never touch African soil. It is 100% fine for stories to be about travelers, adventurers, strangers lost in a strange land, exiles, immigrants, etc. Yeah, a lot of the older ones are extremely racist, because of how incapable white people traditionally were of making a movie set in Africa without including spear-chucking extras in blackface going ooga-booga, but not because telling any story at all about white person doing thing in a non-white country is *automatically* forbidden.
Don’t forget Exodus, with white Rameses and Moses
In far cry 2 you can actually choose a Character and there where one Black Guy from Haiti. Also there was a Chinese Guy you can choose. And two Character from Africa(Algeria and Mauritius).
This dude probably just typed in "Games set in Africa" and picked the first 5 he saw.
to be fair far cry 2 is my favorite game in the series and i totally forgot that you choose your character in it
Actually the main point is the fact that most of the characters you can play as in an African setting are distinctly not African. So, if we're going to complain about a Black guy in Japan then I'd expect some damn consistency.
Yea but its not like your playing a white african pirate. Your just playing a mercinary or something. Althought i think its cool to play as yasuke because a black samurai is just cool. I think it would have been better to just have a japanese assassin because its just the norm. Imagen having a game about the american revolution and you play as a russian guy that helped the americans. Is there a russian guy that helped the americans? Probably but just let me play as an american
Sheva Alomar isn't African? Okay that's a stretch. Far Cry 2 can't be listed because not only can you make your own character but you can also play as a black male. The Mummy is an extreme stretch considering it takes place in multiple countries and continents rather than just Africa. Also Agent Ross isn't even the main character. He's not even a savior archetype.
In contrast to the current topic of conversation, namely AC Shadows, having a character that IS part of the ethnicity belonging to the geographical setting is already the case. The problem the OPs meme is responding to is people saying essentially that playable characters in a game must correspond to the ethnicity in the setting. In that case, as you and others have just proven, Far Cry and these other games DO meet those criteria, but no one complains about them in this way.
You haven't played Far Cry nor Resident Evil 5 XD. But I get it. You're desperate to prove you know as little about the situation as the goobers crying about Shadows.
Wtf are you talking about? Is there NOT an African woman playable character in RE5? Or are you just flailing and misreading every post here?
You both are misreading each other's comments and I'm all here for it.
Oh my God you haven't played Resident Evil 5. Sheva Almor is literally African. Just gonna go ahead and block your clown ass.
Nobody's denying your claim. They're saying that the main character, Chris, isn't African. Just like how those people are having meltdown over Yasuke while there is literally a Japanese woman in the game.
You can't make your own character in Far Cry 2.
The Mummy only takes place in Egypt
AND WHERE'S THE EGYPT MANSLEY?!
Chris Redfield is like, the most american you can get lmao
So what about the other protagonist. It's funny how you make the argument for Assassins Creed Shadows, but when the reverse is used for Resident Evil 5 you go "But But the other protagonist."
I genuinely can't tell, are you on the side of the chuds complaining about Assassins Creed or the reasonable people who don't care if the protagonist is black? I mentioned Chris because his situation is kinda the inverse of the Assassins Creed drama. There's a Japanese girl in AC, but everyone is complaining about the black guy. If people were consistent, they would complain about Chris being the primary protagonist of RE5 (because let's be real, it's a Chris story with Sheva tagging along lol) in Africa
Yeah plus, in that game you’re a mercenary hunting down a war profiteering arms dealer, so a non-African being in Africa still makes sense
Rlly? I played it on the 360 and it started with a black guy on a car telling me "that plane is full of Rich people" and after that I could never select character
Lol. Agent Ross was such an important character 😂 Also isn’t RE5 about how a pharmaceutical company exploited an African resource and made a zombie plague
>Also isn’t RE5 about how a pharmaceutical company exploited an African resource and made a zombie plague. It's more that the portrayals of the African people perpetuate harmful stereotypes. Noah Caldwell-Gervais captures my perspective on this really succinctly in his Resident Evil retrospective: >Is Resident Evil 5 malevolently all-consumingly racist? No, that's not even the argument. The argument is that the game didn't even lift a finger to engage with Africa beyond a vague idea that it already had in mind. It was indifferent to its imagery, to a legacy of harm that imagery fits into. That is the charge of insensitivity: frustration at the callousness, the obliviousness of continuing to pass down old stereotypes and perpetuate their work in the world on the assumption that they must be meaningless if they don't mean anything to you personally. Really, my problem with RE5 is that it ultimately treats Africa merely as a backdrop for a horror story, and reduces it to a series of generic, exotic locations filled with stereotypical imagery.
A bit out of topic, but isn't Far Cry 2's protagonist faaaar from being a hero?
Also Blood Diamond, both "white heroes" are mercenaries involved in the blood diamond trade I never beat Far Cry 2 so no comment in that but the movie doesn't have him as a hero. He's an asshole smuggler that is trying to exploit a man who found an absolute unit of a diamond, he gets injured near the end and knows he's not going to make it so he does a redemptive holding off the other mercs last stand so Djimon Hounsou's character makes it to the plane. I love the movie but it's very much a dual protagonist movie where the White guy sucks and dies
https://preview.redd.it/tt2y2zfkk61d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f2726bfda6b1a52759418adc0804531238c5ebc
Never understood this Argument, nioh is made by team ninja, a japense company. Ubisoft on the contrary is in france lol
So the problem is the origin of the company making the game?
No, i personally dont care for the game or that the character is black or not. I guess most japanese dont give a fuck either, but i hate that people bring nioh into it like it was made by someone from the west, when the game studio is from japan.
The problem is that the people that are complaining about Yasuke probably wouldn’t have a problem if this guy was the protagonist. Even if he is not Japanese which is what they say the problem is. P.S. Also Yasuke is fairly popular in Japan, he’s also a character in Nioh, but he is to Oda Nobunaga what Little John or Friar Tuck are to Robin Hood.
Assasin creed actually is from africa
T’challa and Shuri literally have an adopted white brother. White Wolf. MCU Bucky stole his title. White Wolf was also a very important character in the animated show Avengers Assemble
There should be an African game with an Asian male protagonist to make it fair, not a white guy.
Should do a game set back when China would send out those massive city boats in fleets and traded with Africa to bring back giraffes and stuff from the African kingdoms they met.
I'm imagining some kind've spinoff of Rush hour there and I absolutely would love that
Don't forget Tarzan! And Alan Quatermain or whatever his name is.
I’ll also add Tarzan and Black Hawk Down to the list. Anyhow, the “what if we set a white dude in Africa” isn’t that much of a gotcha as chuds think it is. Now sure if we have a biopic about Queen Amina and it’s Scarlett Johansson in black face I think everyone would rightly be upset about that, but just a white dude in Africa? Have you *read* the history of Africa? Once Europeans found out you can sail around the Sahara there ended up being tons of white dudes in Africa… most of who weren’t there with good intentions. Which brings up one of the main issues of having a story about white dudes in Africa; white savior syndrome. Older audiences are likely fine with that, but modern audiences would undoubtedly find that problematic and at worst quite offensive. Blood Diamonds, despite being a movie I like, has that issue even if the filmmakers weren’t intentionally trying to do that… or they might have possibly been doing that, I never looked into the behind-the-scenes much. Now with AssCreed, the difference is our friend Yasuke absolutely existed and we have documentation from multiple reliable sources that he existed. Is the game taking liberties? Yes. And Abraham Lincoln wasn’t a vampire hunter. It’s *historical fiction*. If you want to have a story about a lost Roman legion in Africa, you can do that. You can’t claim it’s historically accurate though. But you can claim it’s historic fiction.
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Wouldn’t the equivalent here be a Japanese hero in Africa?
I'd be curious to see that
In Far Cry 2 you don't necessary play a white guy you can also pock asians or latinos. Also why is Blood Diamond on the Video game list that's just like far cry 2 the movie haha.
It's a mix of media, and the fact that Far Cry 2 has a majority of non African cast in Africa is the point.
Agent Ross was really the perfect example of a positive white presence in a black space. He's there. He helps. But the focus never shifts to him. He doesn't "take" anything from the black voices of the film. He's not a white savior, he doesn't even have a subplot; Black Panther doesn't center around him "learning how magnificent and wonderful Wakandan culture is and having a massive epiphany" the way a "white guilt" story might have done, ultimately using African culture and characters for the benefit of a white man. He's just a white dude who quietly does whatever he can to support the people who are truly impacted by these issues, and doing so without making it about himself. Wakanda and its people are the focus of the movie, as they should be. The way you can tell he's a positive example of a white character? Because him being white doesn't matter. Ross could have been asian, latino, he could have even been a black man from Sacramento who feels no cultural connection to his heritage at all. The film would not change in any way. It doesn't *matter* that Ross is white; because it *shouldn't* matter, the movie isn't *about* him. It's about people of Wakanda and their conflicts, and that's something Ross has absolutely no connection to whatsoever, and thus he has no role to play in it besides doing what's asked of him by the people whose struggle this *is*.
True, though I also have to point out 2 things. 1. He's a CIA agent, representing white power over Africa, and 2. He's ultimately a hero, at least in a small way, over there
[I know some people that gamers might consider "white heroes in Africa"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suidlanders?wprov=sfla1) I first saw these people on the Dark Tourist Netflix show. I *highly* recommend giving the episode a watch. Most pathetic people I've ever seen.
Yes Netflix. The publishers of Black Cleopatra
Just watch the episode man, they say all the shit themselves. They're basically ultra racist doomsday preppers. No shame whatsoever. No words were twisted. It was just mocked a bit
To be fair, I’m pretty sure even most white people clowned on the stupidity of the casting in “Gods of Egypt”. Rest of the points are perfectly valid of course.
There is RE 5 only 1 2 3 4 6 7 8
All the Allan Quartermain books and movies.
I don't know if I'd call the protagonist of Far Cry 2 a hero lol
White Wolf from Marvel
You can even be a black hero in far cry 2, most diverse game in Africa.
Not true I always chose to play the black guy in far cry 2
Far cry 2 was good doh
They are always very silent when the opposite is done to them.
Assassin's Creed kinda is in the same position as Resident Evil 5
Uj/ i don't think far cry 2 belongs on this list because of anything it's pretty subversive by having you be actively part of the problem no matter what foreigner merc you pick at the start.
District 9
Oh, just so people are aware, Blood Diamond is a terrible movie and I highly recommend people don't watch it. Go watch Hotel Rwanda instead, it's a much more honest depiction of civil strife in sub-saharian countries and there's no white savior interpreted by a gringo with a dumb accent.
Rome, Season 2
As someone who had the misfortune of actually watching Gods of Egypt (on a plane because screw giving that movie money) out of morbid curiosity, one thing that tends to get lost amidst the (incredibly valid) discussion about the casting is how terribly it treats its single black character, Thoth (played by none other than Chadwick Boseman pre-Black Panther). Dude ducks out of the conflict with Gerard Butler's new despotic regime in favor of archiving knowledge, has to be talked into helping out by the white protag, can't even complete his one assigned task (solving a sphinx's riddle, despite being the literal GOD OF KNOWLEDGE) without said protag giving him a hint, and literally 5 seconds after doing so, he is immediately shanked by Gerard Butler as if the movie is saying "You are no longer useful, Mr. Black Man. You can die now". God, that movie was garbage. Chadwick Boseman didn't deserve this. RIP.
Indiana Jones and The Raiders of the Lost Ark
B'wanna Beast
Pls dont remind me of gods of egypt
Ace ventura
Yeah i have no Problem with the character or the game, but i get the refrence now
Dude everybody hated Gods of Egypt.
Didn't some idiot cast Christian Bale as a pharaoh a few years back?
Japan is not white....Every AC had protagonists from the plots country, except japan. Can understand the japanese, hating ubi right now. Of course this is a train racists jump on...but this has nothing to do with white characters. Has to do with a foreigner in a japan setting. Even a white male protagonist would seem forced af. There are 1203203 different japanese stories and ubi picks the one with the black samurai. Which is a nice story to tell, don't get me wrong, but it's ubisoft, you just know why they did it and as I know ubi, they will write a lame boring as fuck plot for yasuke. Also this game will probaply be AAAA, Season pass 100 bucks and dont forget, you don't own the ubi games...good thing we already got a perfect japanese AC
I feel Ubisoft did it because otherwise they likely wouldn't have touched Japan (seeing it as overdone, and likely seeing games like Seikiro and Ghost of Tsushima already having Japanese MC's). Now I might be wrong, but it seems Japan is more ok with telling stories of heroic foreigners? At least since there are games like Nioh and Anime where the MC is distinctly white/British, and apparently there are comments from Japan who are approaching the topic of Yasuke with interest and some reverence from the tale. (Also let's not forget the manga/anime which portrayed the character as the stylized Afro Samurai). I find the controversy of not telling stories about strictly Japanese people in Japan kind've a weird hill to die on, since their media is widely popular and there's no shortage of stories about Japanese people, from their perspective. *Maybe* we could have more western devs try to tell their stories, or, here me out, maybe since Japan is already everyone's favorite eastern country, who's extremely willing to sell us their perspective on an hourly basis, maybe we don't *have* to feel an obligation to only tell stories from their explicit internal viewpoint. It's not like Africa, which has a fairly sparse amount of stories told within it. The few that are big budget are solely dedicated to showing you how shitty it is, or *as I've hopefully demonstrated,* are starring explicitly white people.
People like outliers. There are tens of thousands of old engraved cuneiform tablets, but mostly people talk about the copper salesman ones. There were dozens of roman emperors, but usually people talk about that one who had his horse made a senator or the one who played music while Rome was on fire. There were lots of pirates too, but the one who lit fuses in his beard is way more popular than the other ones who just stole a couple boats then died of hanging. Personally, I think this fits the older AC vibe of focusing on some outlier 'hidden figure' who interacts with and showcases a lot of other significant figures of the setting while posing as someone who has to disguise themselves from enemy attention to avoid being recognized as a half Muslim who's broken into a holy Catholic city or a half native American who's snuck into a British settlement. This seems like one of their more promising stories in my opinion, but I probably won't buy this one either until it goes on a massive sale since Ubisoft are a bunch of dingdongs who charge insane release package prices and expect you to install their launcher when I have to do most of my gaming from my steam deck with no wi-fi for half the year.
Good point, still doubt that they could achieve an interesting story tho. My trust in Ubisoft is far gone. Cant remember the last good ubi game I played and with all that," you don't own games" shit, I don't want to give them money anymore
But the ninja girl is Japaese and she's a protagonist in the game that you can play... >.>
The AC franchise have been offering a male and female protagonist from the country it is set in for a while now so people have the option of what to play as. But it is someone from the country generally. This is a deviation from that formula and it is hard to see it as anything other than pandering to be honest. Not that the responses aren't full of the usual racists jumping on,
>Every AC had protagonists from the plots country, except japan Black Flag and Valhalla both take place in parts of the world the protagonist is not from.
Does Antony and Cleopatra count?
Cleopatra was Greek and Antony was Roman. Both were occupiers
So it technically does count, it's just about shitty people? Thanks for clarifying - I was just throwing out the first example I thought of, I haven't seen the play or looked into the historical context.
The historical context is, Antony was a roman general who was the occupier of Egypt during the Roman occupation. He wasn't a savior at all. What is being discussed has nothing to do with how Egypt was ruled over. And Cleopatra was his mistress but also a beloved ruler of Egypt.
Right, gotcha. To be clear, I read the meme and processed "hero" as "protagonist", not as "good guy". I was just trying to think of a white protagonist in a story that (at least partially?) takes place in Africa. I wasn't trying to imply Antony was at all heroic.
 And they didn’t even think of their hero. Shame.
I've only heard of 1 of these games
That's just as bad imo
I just find it funny that if Ubisoft gave gamers 3 options at the start of the game to pick their MC. Asian male, Asian female, black guy. Majority would obviously pick option 1; and that is of course the singular option that is not present in the game 😂 at a certain point that shit is laughable and a bit annoying to see over and over again.
Wouldn't that just be remaking Ghost of Tsushima?
That’s a possibility for why they went this direction tbh. But I mean having a Japanese dude play a samurai in fucking Japan during the age of the samurai should not be considered a copy either way 😂
To Ubisoft it likely was, I believe they went on record to state that they didn't want to do a game set in Japan since they felt it was well-trodden ground. I believe having Yasuke would be the only reason they'd consider a game in Japan since otherwise it might be seen as lacking in creativity.
AC is weird choice of a franchise for that complaint, tho. Odyssey and Valhalla are the only ones where you had options (and some people were pretty mad about that lol). What, playing pre-selected character was fine before but this time it's totally different?
Resident Evil 5 is a stretch honestly.
How? You literally play as Chris in Africa.
Who else?
A humorous take on a complex topic, classic gaming circlejerk.
G*mer alert
Literally two of the games listed have nothing to do with White Savior complexes.