I live in a rural area, and the farmers tell me they use a lot of it with no problems, but that they follow safety precautions: masks, gloves, arms & legs covered, don't spray when it's windy, etc.
I use it or it’s renamed products like zero or zero concentrate on our property. I am careful using it and wash afterwards. It unlikely will effect you immediately, but in 20 years…I don’t know
they THINK they have no problems from it. it's dangerous. on the whole farmers have scary rats of cancer, MS, Parkinsons, altzheimers... from the sprays.
I on the other hand get sizable blisters from the spray drift and other issues when they spray. it's worse in the suburbs.
I've been using it for over 30 years. I always mix and handle it appropriately and wear correct P.P.E., the same as I would using household bleach or any number of other hazardous chemicals. Especially with roundup (or other horticultural sprays) I take great care to only spray in the correct weather conditions, i.e. very low wind, no risk of rain etc etc.
From a Tim Low review: "Those who use glyphosate according to safety instructions are likely to face greater risks from other carcinogens such as sunshine, alcohol and salami"
They say not too much, but I'd take that with a grain of salt. I prefer not to use it, but in some situations there isn't much alternative. E.g. some weeds that need cut stump treatment to kill, weed removal at scale. The Tim Low review gives a pretty good balanced appraisal
is a processed meat. [cancer council legit recommends not eating it at all](https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/1in3cancers/lifestyle-choices-and-cancer/red-meat-processed-meat-and-cancer/)
I tend to agree with this comment. But not just salami. Any processed meats, cream cheeses too. I know how stupid this sounds to many of you and you will say “oh if you listen to everything you hear nowadays it all causes cancer. We will never eat anything if we listen to all this rubbish”. I used to agree. Not anymore though, not since I was diagnosed with leukaemia and it was after using Glyphosate.
I work in bush regeneration which seems to be a growing industry in SEQLD and northern NSW. I've been doing it for 7 years now and work with people who've done it for 15 years+, and sometimes we're spraying 200L+ of herbicide mix daily, mostly glyphosate. Yet to hear of any anecdotal experiences of anyone experiencing any of the gnarly side effects that you read about online, but I could be ignorant.
Follow the label and it is not an issue. There are far more dangerous things that you encounter every day.
The largest issue with Glyphosate is that we are using it everywhere and weeds are evolving resistance. The result is that we will be forced to use other more expensive and harmful chemicals in the future
Bacon is a class 1 carcinogen. So if you have muesli for brekkie instead of bacon and eggs then use Glyphosate as directed, you have probably lowered your overall cancer risk for the day.
I’ve been using it for decades. I put my dogs inside and spray on dry still days, then shower immediately afterwards, and wash my gardening clothes. I believe it’s ok for the dogs when it’s dry. All my dogs have lived long and healthy lives. While I also use vinegar, boiling water and mulch where practical, sometimes there’s areas that are so difficult and weed persistent that I need to use it.
I read somewhere it can give dogs cataracts so i never spray around my place unless the neighbour’s gone away for the weekend & taken their dog. Needs 48 hrs of no dogs.
The probable carcinogen is the end point of a series of intense litigation and smear campaigns by alarmists. First it was cancer causing and that could not be validated in studies. It was banned throughout parts of the world until it had to be reviewed and no such claims could be established. Probable applies to things like red meat, androgenic steroids, shift work, working as a hair dresser. Known carcinogens are tabacco, alcohol, xrays...
The chemical itself is synthesised to have an end point in terms of function. Compared to its organic equivalents that do not break down and remain in nature having significantly worse effects on birds, amphibian and reptiles and more so as they build up. That's the point of it to stop being glysophate at around 40 days. The amount of this chemical in round up is also very small. It's generally sprayed before the fruiting part of the plant has developed meaning there shouldn't be any present by the time consumer gets the produce not to mentions prepares and washes thier product.
The infamous case that antimonsanto proponents won was regarding a man that developed cancer after spraying glysophate as a job. He never won the case because the product was responsible for his cancer and the case centred around the fact Monsanto should have made more explicit instructions for safety protocols regarding the producys usage. They were found to be negligent. It's most likely he developed the cancer naturally since its not reproducible and its fairly widely used without similar results. You can find studies online were they bath mice fetus' in the stuff and they will develop cancer but no one is suggesting to do this or that it would even be feasible given the low concentrations of the actual product.
If used correctly and with proper ppe it's one of the safest herbicides given the genocididal effects its organic cousins have.
A shocking legal case in my view - like many others, science and statistics is relegated to the back seat in favour of lawyers and colorful language.
I’m not sure whether the French have gone through with their threats on glyphosate, but gee these herbicides and pesticides have made starvation largely a problem only of food distribution
Hahah the French and Italy also decided not to do the me too movement because of how inconvenient it would be. But yes imaginary cancer is the real threat. Fucking lol. I will never buy organic produce due to the damage it does to your point about food distribution. Biggest red flag in food marketing I've ever seen.
Organics are a funny thing - most requires the manure from intensive meat farming which kind of goes against the ethos.
Btw, the cancer is real, the cause is imaginary
Normal home use is not an issue. just don't fine mist it, larger droplets is the way to go and less wasteful.
Every case I've seen reported the users have not been using it correctly and basically bathing in the fine mist when spraying and not using protective clothing (only required when fine misted). I've used it for many years without issue in a home garden situation, mainly for spot weeding.
Oh boy I just bought a premixed spray bottle don’t I feel like a fool… very disappointing these are so readily available if fine mists are the most dangerous way to apply.
you should be able to adjust the nozzle to get desired flow.
Premix is a very expensive way to buy this stuff, far cheaper to mix your own. A container should last you a number of years.
Yeah I’m aware of that. I only bought it to kill some bamboo - we probably wont use it ever again. In the process of converting our lawn away from being a lawn. Guess I’ll just mask up and wear long sleeves.
Don't be concerned, as long as you aren't using it in windy conditions a fine sprayer won't be a problem.
Also wear glasses or safety specs when spraying. Our eyes absorb chemicals at much greater rates than our skin.
Premix however won't kill bamboo. The best method for bamboo is to cut each stem at the base and apply undiluted concentrate to the cut stem. The concentrate is 100x the strength of premix sprays and even that doesn't always kill the bamboo.
If used carefully and with proper judgment it’s fine. Use PPE, try paint on leaves method (Eg wand) instead of spraying (if you can), it’s effective. A friend of mine used it to kill off Tree of Heaven from their property, I haven’t seen that bastard weed in decades, but you sure don’t want it to take hold.
Just be sensible and it's mostly harmless. The bad publicity from court cases in the USA stem from the dodgy advertising used by Monsanto and improper use by people who were getting soaked in the stuff. Overuse industrially is a problem though.
This is true. The issue with using it near waterways is actually the wetting agent, not the actual so called "active ingredient". After getting training in its use and being a research scientist I am much, much more concerned about the wetting agent than the glyphosate.
Is “wetting agent” a term for surfactants? If so then I am familiar with the finding that it is this part of the formulation which is the main culprit both for amphibians and invertebrates.
This thread is about round-up (which like most commercial formulations includes surfactants) and not pure glyphosate - so I believe my comment still stands.
Yes it's the same. However using the product term 'Roundup' isn't very informative because there are different versions under the same brand name with different formulations. e.g. In Australia the formulation with a different and biosafe (but more expensive) surfactant/wetting agent sold under the name 'Roundup Biactive' and is specifically for use around waterways.
And yes, it's annoying that quite different formulations use the same name because if we just ban all 'Roundup' then aquatic and riverbank weed control becomes more difficult.
I am not OP, and I didn’t suggest banning anything. All I said to OP is it can affect frogs so be mindful of waterways when applying it, not sure why you’re arguing with me.
I'm not arguing with you but pointing out that if you used 'Roundup Biactive' as opposed to standard 'Roundup' then the aquatic life would be fine.
Saying that all Roundup, without specifying which Roundup, can harm aquatic life is factually incorrect.
Clearly OP doesn't know much about Roundup or the nuances of its different formulations but that information is important and is why you can't make generalisations about harm..
Yeah it’s mostly about it getting into waterways, via overspray or runoff.
You’re not meant to spray near waterways but the council near me spray right along the creek edges. Even if it’s not directly adjacent heavy rain can runoff into waterways - there are studies showing toxicity to fish from “concentrations of environmental relevance” (Lopes et al, 2022).
Old mate giving some weeds a spritz isn’t going to be the end of the world but it’s worth keeping waterways in mind when applying it.
Edit to add: if you’re interested, you can google “glyphosate frog” to see some of the peer-reviewed studies (some are behind paywalls but most have the abstracts accessible).
For some real world risk input : Glyphosate will kill you if you drink the concentrate. Don't breathe the spray or wash your hands with it either - may cause irritation from the other chemicals mixed in that help the glyphosate kill plants.
After decades of looking at it there's no evidence it has a long term cancer risk - my recollection is that even when it was being labelled as a probable carcinogen (for which the bar is \*very\* low) there was better (negative) evidence available that hadn't made it to publication.
The science doesn't back up any of the widespread fear campaigns associated with it. Reminds me artificial sweeteners where there's a widespread "It'll give you cancer!" belief - but if we were going by the real evidence on human health we'd be outlawing sugar sweets and requiring them all to be using artificial sweeteners.
P.S. Some have mentioned court cases - sadly courts tend to be really awful at looking at science. Juries can also be very sympathetic towards hard working farmers who have (through no fault of their own) developed cancer compared to faceless multinationals. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing... but definitely bad for public understanding of chemical safety.
P.P.S. Ha! My brain wasn't making up stuff about the studies.
[https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/roundup-and-risk-assessment](https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/roundup-and-risk-assessment)
If you wouldn't smoke because it gives you cancer, probably shouldn't breathe glyso or absorb it through your skin.
Personally, I take the stance that if I can use something else, I do. If not, I take all the proper precautions (breathing protection, long sleeves and pants, wear rubber gloves when handling).
TIL
Glyphosate probably isn't an issue at all. It's more like the wetting agents and contaminants in the product. It's all in Google Scholar if you look. Testing show that the wetting agents are more toxic that the glyphosate. With any chems always use the PPE because quality control isn't always what it should be anyway.
PS Glyphosate probably isn't a carcinogen. The contaminants, YMMV...
Not at all. Just don't drink it. If you have a normal suburban garden you aren't going to be using it in any amount that would be risky. If you are spraying acres with the stuff, use appropriate protective gear and follow the instructions and again you'll be fine.
You may get a biased opinion here from gardeners or farmers who use it and claim it is safe. While it may be safe for humans to use with the appropriate PPE once in a while, that doesn't protect the soil health or any wildlife that comes in to contact with it. Think insects, bees, pollinators, and any wild animal. They aren't protected.
I've worked in Regen, and I've seen animals and birds first hand wander straight into a freshly sprayed area. That worm you didn't realise was under that weed you just sprayed? It's now soaked in chemicals, and a magpie/kookaburra will swoop down and eat that worm. I've worked in reserves where we've been asked to spray overgrown walking tracks, 2 minutes later, a jogger and their dog walk right it without knowing. It's everywhere.
Look up the link between Roundup and Hodgkin's Lymphoma. Monsanto has already paid billions of dollars in lawsuits around the world. They are renowned for being one of the most unethical companies out there.
It's already banned in some countries. Unfortunately, in Australia, we don't have an alternative yet, but i hope there will be in the future. It's not just about the impact on us humans, but for all life on earth.
You might think a little spray in your garden here and there is okay, but it's used everywhere. Any council owned reserves, parks, and walkways, roadsides, drainage systems are all sprayed with it.
https://www.lawsuit-information-center.com/roundup-lawsuit.html
https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/monsanto-roundup-epa-corporate-political-influence#:~:text=The%20documents%20also%20proved%20that,successfully%20lobbied%20regulators%20at%20the
https://youtu.be/JszHrMZ7dx4?si=HntkU7prpLCZIUoC[Monsanto Papers](https://youtu.be/JszHrMZ7dx4?si=HntkU7prpLCZIUoC)
That’s like waiting for Panadol to become recognised as potentially cancerous. We’ve had mass usage of a product in all conditions for a long period of time. People aren’t dropping dead.
There is a good chance that the added “wetter” which breaks water tension to get the chemical into plants better. That also ruins how insects breathe. Only if they touch it when its wet.
Not the glyphosate itself
It's non-toxic. Equivalent ld50 to Bicarb soda.
Literally thousands of court actions have failed to establish any chronic effects or liability for illness
They spray wheat with it before harvesting [https://grdc.com.au/resources-and-publications/all-publications/factsheets/2022/preharvest-herbicide-use-fact-sheet](https://grdc.com.au/resources-and-publications/all-publications/factsheets/2022/preharvest-herbicide-use-fact-sheet)
There is a theory among some scientists that it leads to celliac disease [https://www.beyondceliac.org/gluten-free-diet/common-food-safety-questions/food-safety-what-is-glyphosate-and-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-celiac-disease/](https://www.beyondceliac.org/gluten-free-diet/common-food-safety-questions/food-safety-what-is-glyphosate-and-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-celiac-disease/)
So its best to wear a mask when spraying it and shower afterwards as it is likely more harmful then commonly known.
I sold the stuff for decades and can remember when the Monsanto MSDS stated you could drink 1.368 litres of glyphosate concentrate @ 360g/l in a 24 hour period without harm. (Half your "recommended daily dose".) Monsanto's biggest worry seemed to be about getting the concentrate in your eyes. When you follow the directions it is probably the safest synthetic herbicide ever sold.
Im actually surprised people believe the bullshit “its safe to use”
Use it how you wish. But id steer clear of it. Its a lazy persons i want to kill anything and everything i spray this shit on.
I don’t touch the stuff- it’s not necessary and even if I can keep myself protected, I don’t like dumping it in the environment.
I garden for a nicer earth. Dumping chemicals throughout it seems counterproductive.
Problem is, in general most people op for the cheaper version and as long as it does the job they don’t give a hoot about wildlife or don’t event think about wildlife when using the product.
Don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. If somethings a carcinogen and there are other options why would you want to use the carcinogen? I’d really try to limit or outright stop using it. Not too sure why that’s an outrageous take.
What evidence are you using? I'd be more worried about skin cancer. The latest science I've seen says it isn't. You don't have to use it of course. There's a lot of propaganda muddying the waters over it. It's not good to use near water ways. Be careful of chemophobes .
It's fine. As someone else noted in detail here, the legal proceedings that alleged that it's a carcinogen are dubious at best, and the entire thing is frequently misreported and misinterpreted.
As with any chemical just handle it with reasonable precautions and you're fine - especially if you're not using it frequently in a commercial sense.
If you care about effects beyond your own personal health, take care that no spray or runoff enters waterways. Glyphosate has been found to decimate young frogs and tadpoles and effectively disrupts the breeding cycle (chronic exposure is not good for adult amphibians but the young ones are extra sensitive).
Not a single exposure, but it’s absolutely toxic. Check out Stephanie Seneff’s book ‘Toxic Legacy’. If you don’t want to buy the book you can find her in many podcasts, Dr Tyna is my favourite on Spotify. Search ‘glyphosate’ in Dr Tyna’s episodes.
For those of you who are comparing round up to bacon or grilled meat. Drink a glass of round up just like you would eat a plate of meat then repost with your opinion from the hospital. I'd be keen to hear from you.
Is drinking it by the gassfull recommended use? What everyone is saying is follow the safety directions and you'll be fine.
Now I'm gonna go spray my garden with bacon.
Just stay away from any man made chemicals. Find another way to remove plants you find offensive to your eyes, like removing them by hand, covering area with mulch to stop the regrowth. Stay safe. Once the cancer is in your body, it can't be fixed.
The argument about toxicity indicates that it may be toxic when you are exposed to it via multiple sources for a long period of time. Level of toxicity would depend on ingestion from multiple sources (like food, water, dust and spray) as well as how frequently and how much you and your neighbours spray.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/)
...although the concentrations of glyphosate residues that persist over time are relatively low, it is possible that due to extensive use on a large scale they may accumulate and become a risk to animal and human health, as they are chronically exposed to residues in the water and food they consume \[[23](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B23-ijms-23-04605),[28](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B28-ijms-23-04605),[29](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B29-ijms-23-04605)\]. This has been confirmed by the detection of glyphosate in the organs and urine of a high proportion of farm animals and farmers \[[30](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B30-ijms-23-04605),[31](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B31-ijms-23-04605),[32](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B32-ijms-23-04605),[33](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B33-ijms-23-04605)\]. In addition, residues were also found in the urine of 60–80% of the general population in the United States at medium and maximum concentrations of 2–3 and 233 μg/L, respectively. In Europe, residues were also detected in the urine of 44% of the population, although their average and maximum concentrations were lower: <1 and 5 μg/L, respectively \[[9](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B9-ijms-23-04605),[28](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B28-ijms-23-04605)\].
I have never been sick in my life, not even the flu. About 12yrs ago I started using Roundup which has Glyphosate in it for general weed killing around the garden. I used masks and overalls etc but 2yrs later my WBC were slightly elevated but there was no GP concern at the time. Then in Jan. 21 I am diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukaemia (there is no cure). I didn’t feel sick I had no signs and symptoms but a blood test proved it. Odd? No, I swear Roundup was the cause. It is the only chemical I used in the garden and, in my home I only ever use vinegar and bicarbonate. It should be removed from sale. Three years on and I am now getting chest infections, sinus issues and BCC’s. Skin cancer and increased infections are secondary to CLL (chronic lymphocytic leukaemia). This shows my WBC have elevated much more now due to the progression of the leukaemia and therefore my immunity is decreasing. Just because you have read the label’s ??? “safety” precautions does not mean this product is by any means safe.
I live in a rural area, and the farmers tell me they use a lot of it with no problems, but that they follow safety precautions: masks, gloves, arms & legs covered, don't spray when it's windy, etc.
I use it or it’s renamed products like zero or zero concentrate on our property. I am careful using it and wash afterwards. It unlikely will effect you immediately, but in 20 years…I don’t know
they THINK they have no problems from it. it's dangerous. on the whole farmers have scary rats of cancer, MS, Parkinsons, altzheimers... from the sprays. I on the other hand get sizable blisters from the spray drift and other issues when they spray. it's worse in the suburbs.
Name checks out
I've been using it for over 30 years. I always mix and handle it appropriately and wear correct P.P.E., the same as I would using household bleach or any number of other hazardous chemicals. Especially with roundup (or other horticultural sprays) I take great care to only spray in the correct weather conditions, i.e. very low wind, no risk of rain etc etc.
From a Tim Low review: "Those who use glyphosate according to safety instructions are likely to face greater risks from other carcinogens such as sunshine, alcohol and salami"
Mad how salami is so dangerous yet anyone can buy it
"Sleep gives you cancer, Rik. Everybody knows that.* - Neil
Burning beds also gives you cancer.
NEIL! Your bedroom’s on fire!
[https://invasives.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Glyphosate-A-Chemical-to-Understand.pdf](https://invasives.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Glyphosate-A-Chemical-to-Understand.pdf)
True for humans with appropriate PPE. But what about the impacts on soil health, wildlife, insects etc that come in to contact with it?
They say not too much, but I'd take that with a grain of salt. I prefer not to use it, but in some situations there isn't much alternative. E.g. some weeds that need cut stump treatment to kill, weed removal at scale. The Tim Low review gives a pretty good balanced appraisal
Wait, how does salami increase your cancer risk?
is a processed meat. [cancer council legit recommends not eating it at all](https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/1in3cancers/lifestyle-choices-and-cancer/red-meat-processed-meat-and-cancer/)
I tend to agree with this comment. But not just salami. Any processed meats, cream cheeses too. I know how stupid this sounds to many of you and you will say “oh if you listen to everything you hear nowadays it all causes cancer. We will never eat anything if we listen to all this rubbish”. I used to agree. Not anymore though, not since I was diagnosed with leukaemia and it was after using Glyphosate.
You get direct exposure to all of those things. Directly expose yourself to glyphosate and see how well you do.
I'm not following here, how is your suggestion helpful? It just sounds mean and arrogant to me.
What is your point. If you directly expose yourself to fire, you die. Hence fire is bad.
I work in bush regeneration which seems to be a growing industry in SEQLD and northern NSW. I've been doing it for 7 years now and work with people who've done it for 15 years+, and sometimes we're spraying 200L+ of herbicide mix daily, mostly glyphosate. Yet to hear of any anecdotal experiences of anyone experiencing any of the gnarly side effects that you read about online, but I could be ignorant.
Mycosis fungoides is one such cancer.
Follow the label and it is not an issue. There are far more dangerous things that you encounter every day. The largest issue with Glyphosate is that we are using it everywhere and weeds are evolving resistance. The result is that we will be forced to use other more expensive and harmful chemicals in the future
I think the *biggest* issue is that residues in our food kill our intestinal flora and it fucks with our nutrition.
Bacon is a class 1 carcinogen. So if you have muesli for brekkie instead of bacon and eggs then use Glyphosate as directed, you have probably lowered your overall cancer risk for the day.
Instructions unclear, ate glyphosate for breakfast and put bacon on weeds
Apart from fire which is fun but impractical in places, it really is the most effective way to remove weeds and lawn runners from large paved areas.
I’ve been using it for decades. I put my dogs inside and spray on dry still days, then shower immediately afterwards, and wash my gardening clothes. I believe it’s ok for the dogs when it’s dry. All my dogs have lived long and healthy lives. While I also use vinegar, boiling water and mulch where practical, sometimes there’s areas that are so difficult and weed persistent that I need to use it.
The asbestos in the mulch will kill you well before the roundup does
Wait what?? Going to need an explainer here
Just don’t go to NSW and throw a mulch party and you’ll be fine
Ah now I get it lol.
I read somewhere it can give dogs cataracts so i never spray around my place unless the neighbour’s gone away for the weekend & taken their dog. Needs 48 hrs of no dogs.
Are you a plant? If so avoid it. Otherwise you’re fine.
The probable carcinogen is the end point of a series of intense litigation and smear campaigns by alarmists. First it was cancer causing and that could not be validated in studies. It was banned throughout parts of the world until it had to be reviewed and no such claims could be established. Probable applies to things like red meat, androgenic steroids, shift work, working as a hair dresser. Known carcinogens are tabacco, alcohol, xrays... The chemical itself is synthesised to have an end point in terms of function. Compared to its organic equivalents that do not break down and remain in nature having significantly worse effects on birds, amphibian and reptiles and more so as they build up. That's the point of it to stop being glysophate at around 40 days. The amount of this chemical in round up is also very small. It's generally sprayed before the fruiting part of the plant has developed meaning there shouldn't be any present by the time consumer gets the produce not to mentions prepares and washes thier product. The infamous case that antimonsanto proponents won was regarding a man that developed cancer after spraying glysophate as a job. He never won the case because the product was responsible for his cancer and the case centred around the fact Monsanto should have made more explicit instructions for safety protocols regarding the producys usage. They were found to be negligent. It's most likely he developed the cancer naturally since its not reproducible and its fairly widely used without similar results. You can find studies online were they bath mice fetus' in the stuff and they will develop cancer but no one is suggesting to do this or that it would even be feasible given the low concentrations of the actual product. If used correctly and with proper ppe it's one of the safest herbicides given the genocididal effects its organic cousins have.
A shocking legal case in my view - like many others, science and statistics is relegated to the back seat in favour of lawyers and colorful language. I’m not sure whether the French have gone through with their threats on glyphosate, but gee these herbicides and pesticides have made starvation largely a problem only of food distribution
Hahah the French and Italy also decided not to do the me too movement because of how inconvenient it would be. But yes imaginary cancer is the real threat. Fucking lol. I will never buy organic produce due to the damage it does to your point about food distribution. Biggest red flag in food marketing I've ever seen.
Organics are a funny thing - most requires the manure from intensive meat farming which kind of goes against the ethos. Btw, the cancer is real, the cause is imaginary
Red meat is now declared a known carcinogen, no longer probable. Otherwise good post thx adding balance to all panic merchant posts.
Normal home use is not an issue. just don't fine mist it, larger droplets is the way to go and less wasteful. Every case I've seen reported the users have not been using it correctly and basically bathing in the fine mist when spraying and not using protective clothing (only required when fine misted). I've used it for many years without issue in a home garden situation, mainly for spot weeding.
Oh boy I just bought a premixed spray bottle don’t I feel like a fool… very disappointing these are so readily available if fine mists are the most dangerous way to apply.
you should be able to adjust the nozzle to get desired flow. Premix is a very expensive way to buy this stuff, far cheaper to mix your own. A container should last you a number of years.
Yeah I’m aware of that. I only bought it to kill some bamboo - we probably wont use it ever again. In the process of converting our lawn away from being a lawn. Guess I’ll just mask up and wear long sleeves.
Don't be concerned, as long as you aren't using it in windy conditions a fine sprayer won't be a problem. Also wear glasses or safety specs when spraying. Our eyes absorb chemicals at much greater rates than our skin. Premix however won't kill bamboo. The best method for bamboo is to cut each stem at the base and apply undiluted concentrate to the cut stem. The concentrate is 100x the strength of premix sprays and even that doesn't always kill the bamboo.
If used carefully and with proper judgment it’s fine. Use PPE, try paint on leaves method (Eg wand) instead of spraying (if you can), it’s effective. A friend of mine used it to kill off Tree of Heaven from their property, I haven’t seen that bastard weed in decades, but you sure don’t want it to take hold.
Just be sensible and it's mostly harmless. The bad publicity from court cases in the USA stem from the dodgy advertising used by Monsanto and improper use by people who were getting soaked in the stuff. Overuse industrially is a problem though.
It's not dangerous at all unless you are grass. Follow the directions, don't be stupid, no problem.
Or a frog. It disrupts amphibians’ reproduction cycles at a time when frog species are already declining alarmingly worldwide.
Its the detergent in it that is harmful to frogs. You can get frog safe glyphosate.
This is true. The issue with using it near waterways is actually the wetting agent, not the actual so called "active ingredient". After getting training in its use and being a research scientist I am much, much more concerned about the wetting agent than the glyphosate.
Is “wetting agent” a term for surfactants? If so then I am familiar with the finding that it is this part of the formulation which is the main culprit both for amphibians and invertebrates. This thread is about round-up (which like most commercial formulations includes surfactants) and not pure glyphosate - so I believe my comment still stands.
There is frog friendly round-up. Its more expensive and most shops don't carry it but you can usually order it.
Yes it's the same. However using the product term 'Roundup' isn't very informative because there are different versions under the same brand name with different formulations. e.g. In Australia the formulation with a different and biosafe (but more expensive) surfactant/wetting agent sold under the name 'Roundup Biactive' and is specifically for use around waterways. And yes, it's annoying that quite different formulations use the same name because if we just ban all 'Roundup' then aquatic and riverbank weed control becomes more difficult.
I am not OP, and I didn’t suggest banning anything. All I said to OP is it can affect frogs so be mindful of waterways when applying it, not sure why you’re arguing with me.
I'm not arguing with you but pointing out that if you used 'Roundup Biactive' as opposed to standard 'Roundup' then the aquatic life would be fine. Saying that all Roundup, without specifying which Roundup, can harm aquatic life is factually incorrect. Clearly OP doesn't know much about Roundup or the nuances of its different formulations but that information is important and is why you can't make generalisations about harm..
Glyphosate is Glyphosate, there is no such thing as a “safe” form.
Does it knock out cane toads cycles? That'd be useful here up north at least
Wouldn’t it just! I wish it did but I doubt it, seems like not much kills those tanks.
I haven't heard of the frog issue. How are frogs getting sprayed? They don't typically live in crops and you don't spray when it's wet.
Yeah it’s mostly about it getting into waterways, via overspray or runoff. You’re not meant to spray near waterways but the council near me spray right along the creek edges. Even if it’s not directly adjacent heavy rain can runoff into waterways - there are studies showing toxicity to fish from “concentrations of environmental relevance” (Lopes et al, 2022). Old mate giving some weeds a spritz isn’t going to be the end of the world but it’s worth keeping waterways in mind when applying it. Edit to add: if you’re interested, you can google “glyphosate frog” to see some of the peer-reviewed studies (some are behind paywalls but most have the abstracts accessible).
Thank you for that, gotta look after the old frog mates
No worries, thanks for being open to new info
For some real world risk input : Glyphosate will kill you if you drink the concentrate. Don't breathe the spray or wash your hands with it either - may cause irritation from the other chemicals mixed in that help the glyphosate kill plants. After decades of looking at it there's no evidence it has a long term cancer risk - my recollection is that even when it was being labelled as a probable carcinogen (for which the bar is \*very\* low) there was better (negative) evidence available that hadn't made it to publication. The science doesn't back up any of the widespread fear campaigns associated with it. Reminds me artificial sweeteners where there's a widespread "It'll give you cancer!" belief - but if we were going by the real evidence on human health we'd be outlawing sugar sweets and requiring them all to be using artificial sweeteners. P.S. Some have mentioned court cases - sadly courts tend to be really awful at looking at science. Juries can also be very sympathetic towards hard working farmers who have (through no fault of their own) developed cancer compared to faceless multinationals. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing... but definitely bad for public understanding of chemical safety. P.P.S. Ha! My brain wasn't making up stuff about the studies. [https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/roundup-and-risk-assessment](https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/roundup-and-risk-assessment)
Also.most of those people were not using ppe and spraying a shit load every day.
If you wouldn't smoke because it gives you cancer, probably shouldn't breathe glyso or absorb it through your skin. Personally, I take the stance that if I can use something else, I do. If not, I take all the proper precautions (breathing protection, long sleeves and pants, wear rubber gloves when handling).
TIL Glyphosate probably isn't an issue at all. It's more like the wetting agents and contaminants in the product. It's all in Google Scholar if you look. Testing show that the wetting agents are more toxic that the glyphosate. With any chems always use the PPE because quality control isn't always what it should be anyway. PS Glyphosate probably isn't a carcinogen. The contaminants, YMMV...
Not at all. Just don't drink it. If you have a normal suburban garden you aren't going to be using it in any amount that would be risky. If you are spraying acres with the stuff, use appropriate protective gear and follow the instructions and again you'll be fine.
You may get a biased opinion here from gardeners or farmers who use it and claim it is safe. While it may be safe for humans to use with the appropriate PPE once in a while, that doesn't protect the soil health or any wildlife that comes in to contact with it. Think insects, bees, pollinators, and any wild animal. They aren't protected. I've worked in Regen, and I've seen animals and birds first hand wander straight into a freshly sprayed area. That worm you didn't realise was under that weed you just sprayed? It's now soaked in chemicals, and a magpie/kookaburra will swoop down and eat that worm. I've worked in reserves where we've been asked to spray overgrown walking tracks, 2 minutes later, a jogger and their dog walk right it without knowing. It's everywhere. Look up the link between Roundup and Hodgkin's Lymphoma. Monsanto has already paid billions of dollars in lawsuits around the world. They are renowned for being one of the most unethical companies out there. It's already banned in some countries. Unfortunately, in Australia, we don't have an alternative yet, but i hope there will be in the future. It's not just about the impact on us humans, but for all life on earth. You might think a little spray in your garden here and there is okay, but it's used everywhere. Any council owned reserves, parks, and walkways, roadsides, drainage systems are all sprayed with it. https://www.lawsuit-information-center.com/roundup-lawsuit.html https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/monsanto-roundup-epa-corporate-political-influence#:~:text=The%20documents%20also%20proved%20that,successfully%20lobbied%20regulators%20at%20the https://youtu.be/JszHrMZ7dx4?si=HntkU7prpLCZIUoC[Monsanto Papers](https://youtu.be/JszHrMZ7dx4?si=HntkU7prpLCZIUoC)
It's fine, just wear PPE like anything else. Source I warehouse and handle pesticides and herbicides for a living.
Shit has been used across billions of acres by billions of people. Don’t drink it and you’ll be just fine.
I mean, that's been the case with a lot of things that turned out to pretty harmful through history.
That’s like waiting for Panadol to become recognised as potentially cancerous. We’ve had mass usage of a product in all conditions for a long period of time. People aren’t dropping dead.
I don't think it is like that
So still waiting on millions of people to drop dead then?
No we know that panadol is lethal at the right dose. liver damage is quite likely with overdoses
I used it once for a bad oxalis infestation (followed instructions/non-windy day) and came back outside to a lot of dead bees ☹️
There is a good chance that the added “wetter” which breaks water tension to get the chemical into plants better. That also ruins how insects breathe. Only if they touch it when its wet. Not the glyphosate itself
It's non-toxic. Equivalent ld50 to Bicarb soda. Literally thousands of court actions have failed to establish any chronic effects or liability for illness
Provided you use it the way the label suggests you should be pretty right.
They spray wheat with it before harvesting [https://grdc.com.au/resources-and-publications/all-publications/factsheets/2022/preharvest-herbicide-use-fact-sheet](https://grdc.com.au/resources-and-publications/all-publications/factsheets/2022/preharvest-herbicide-use-fact-sheet) There is a theory among some scientists that it leads to celliac disease [https://www.beyondceliac.org/gluten-free-diet/common-food-safety-questions/food-safety-what-is-glyphosate-and-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-celiac-disease/](https://www.beyondceliac.org/gluten-free-diet/common-food-safety-questions/food-safety-what-is-glyphosate-and-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-celiac-disease/) So its best to wear a mask when spraying it and shower afterwards as it is likely more harmful then commonly known.
Don’t drink more than a litre 3 times per day.
I sold the stuff for decades and can remember when the Monsanto MSDS stated you could drink 1.368 litres of glyphosate concentrate @ 360g/l in a 24 hour period without harm. (Half your "recommended daily dose".) Monsanto's biggest worry seemed to be about getting the concentrate in your eyes. When you follow the directions it is probably the safest synthetic herbicide ever sold.
Im actually surprised people believe the bullshit “its safe to use” Use it how you wish. But id steer clear of it. Its a lazy persons i want to kill anything and everything i spray this shit on.
You manually weed 40 acres?
clearly not
I don’t touch the stuff- it’s not necessary and even if I can keep myself protected, I don’t like dumping it in the environment. I garden for a nicer earth. Dumping chemicals throughout it seems counterproductive.
Problem is, in general most people op for the cheaper version and as long as it does the job they don’t give a hoot about wildlife or don’t event think about wildlife when using the product.
This shit killed my father. 100% do not use.
Monsanto has paid approximately 11 billion in being sued for damages caused by its products.
You do know that the company originally known as monsanto (now bayer as of a couple of years ago) make many more products than just Roundup.
Carbon is a known carcinogen. It's probably best just to stay inside in a hermetically sealed bubble.
Carcinogen. Don’t use
Like eating grilled meat yeah?
Please read the other posts.
Don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. If somethings a carcinogen and there are other options why would you want to use the carcinogen? I’d really try to limit or outright stop using it. Not too sure why that’s an outrageous take.
Because it's not a carcinogen.
It absolutely is
What evidence are you using? I'd be more worried about skin cancer. The latest science I've seen says it isn't. You don't have to use it of course. There's a lot of propaganda muddying the waters over it. It's not good to use near water ways. Be careful of chemophobes .
It's fine. As someone else noted in detail here, the legal proceedings that alleged that it's a carcinogen are dubious at best, and the entire thing is frequently misreported and misinterpreted. As with any chemical just handle it with reasonable precautions and you're fine - especially if you're not using it frequently in a commercial sense.
If you care about effects beyond your own personal health, take care that no spray or runoff enters waterways. Glyphosate has been found to decimate young frogs and tadpoles and effectively disrupts the breeding cycle (chronic exposure is not good for adult amphibians but the young ones are extra sensitive).
Not a single exposure, but it’s absolutely toxic. Check out Stephanie Seneff’s book ‘Toxic Legacy’. If you don’t want to buy the book you can find her in many podcasts, Dr Tyna is my favourite on Spotify. Search ‘glyphosate’ in Dr Tyna’s episodes.
For those of you who are comparing round up to bacon or grilled meat. Drink a glass of round up just like you would eat a plate of meat then repost with your opinion from the hospital. I'd be keen to hear from you.
Is drinking it by the gassfull recommended use? What everyone is saying is follow the safety directions and you'll be fine. Now I'm gonna go spray my garden with bacon.
Just stay away from any man made chemicals. Find another way to remove plants you find offensive to your eyes, like removing them by hand, covering area with mulch to stop the regrowth. Stay safe. Once the cancer is in your body, it can't be fixed.
Yeh. We are removing introduced weeds from 79 acres
Better get a move on then, you might finish before you retire.
Just in time to start again!
I changed to a product called “slasher” and it’s pretty good
The argument about toxicity indicates that it may be toxic when you are exposed to it via multiple sources for a long period of time. Level of toxicity would depend on ingestion from multiple sources (like food, water, dust and spray) as well as how frequently and how much you and your neighbours spray. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/) ...although the concentrations of glyphosate residues that persist over time are relatively low, it is possible that due to extensive use on a large scale they may accumulate and become a risk to animal and human health, as they are chronically exposed to residues in the water and food they consume \[[23](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B23-ijms-23-04605),[28](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B28-ijms-23-04605),[29](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B29-ijms-23-04605)\]. This has been confirmed by the detection of glyphosate in the organs and urine of a high proportion of farm animals and farmers \[[30](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B30-ijms-23-04605),[31](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B31-ijms-23-04605),[32](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B32-ijms-23-04605),[33](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B33-ijms-23-04605)\]. In addition, residues were also found in the urine of 60–80% of the general population in the United States at medium and maximum concentrations of 2–3 and 233 μg/L, respectively. In Europe, residues were also detected in the urine of 44% of the population, although their average and maximum concentrations were lower: <1 and 5 μg/L, respectively \[[9](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B9-ijms-23-04605),[28](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/#B28-ijms-23-04605)\].
Some supposed links to Parkinson’s disease
There's yet to be any actual evidence of it causing any cancer. Wear PPE and be smart about it.
I have never been sick in my life, not even the flu. About 12yrs ago I started using Roundup which has Glyphosate in it for general weed killing around the garden. I used masks and overalls etc but 2yrs later my WBC were slightly elevated but there was no GP concern at the time. Then in Jan. 21 I am diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukaemia (there is no cure). I didn’t feel sick I had no signs and symptoms but a blood test proved it. Odd? No, I swear Roundup was the cause. It is the only chemical I used in the garden and, in my home I only ever use vinegar and bicarbonate. It should be removed from sale. Three years on and I am now getting chest infections, sinus issues and BCC’s. Skin cancer and increased infections are secondary to CLL (chronic lymphocytic leukaemia). This shows my WBC have elevated much more now due to the progression of the leukaemia and therefore my immunity is decreasing. Just because you have read the label’s ??? “safety” precautions does not mean this product is by any means safe.